 All right, many thanks for staying with us. Welcome back. This is Still Why in the Morning. We are talking about AgriTech solutions and we are speaking to Kizito of Viambo. He is the CEO of Agribora. Before we want to have a break, you're trying to explain to us how it's so important for us to propel this conversation to the interior. So how is the government trying to plug in as well? So I think the government is really, one thing that we need to appreciate is that because the agriculture sector is also a devolved activity, the county governments are really picking up. And one of the latest activities that the government has undertaken, which I must commend, is the Kenya Climate Smart Agriculture Program that is funded by the World Bank and the Kenya government to support counties become more climate resilient with their farmers. Now what that means is the county governments have accepted to take up disruptive agricultural technologies that have been developed by innovators within Kenya and outside Kenya to be able to expand this into their wards. So for us as Agribora, we have been working with county governments, we have signed MOUs with county governments, and they have really opened the doors for us to go and talk to their farmers, their cooperatives, their community-based organizations. Because that's the main entry point, building trust with farmers to trust a technology. It's very difficult. Especially in the interior. Especially in the interior. You know, there's a lot of cybercrime and all this that happens. So when you come to a farmer and you tell them, I want to pick the GPS position and I have a satellite that can analyze your field every five days. The first question they'll ask you is, who gave you permission to put that satellite on top of me? Right. And yet it's not actually even our satellite as Kenya or even in Africa. It's a satellite that belongs to other people outside of the continent. So just explaining why having access to that data is important and how that can help them is quite an uphill battle. Would you say that's one of the main challenges as well? Like trying to, you know, go down to that level, convincing this old lady, this old man that, yes, I have an alternative and it is burst in tech. Would you say it's one of the barriers that you face, especially when it comes to boosting a great tech? Mostly. Mostly that's one of the challenges that the uptake is low because they just don't understand the technology and how it works. It's like trying to convince a customer about the engine and how the engine works over a car for them to buy it. And yet the customer just saw this car, you know, on the advert and said, this is what I want. So we take a lot of time explaining what is under the hood and we lose our clientele, we lose our farmers because then the risks and the questions arise and say, okay, now you want me to have a wallet, you will steal my money, you are now using geodata to monitor me, why are you spying on me? So these challenges at the end of the day, it would be best if farmers don't actually know what technology is being used. You think it would be best if they don't know? If they just know two things. Or if they know or if they don't know? If they don't know. Let me explain why. Oh, that's scary. You know, if a farmer, you tell a farmer, I am going to help you access finance and I'm going to give you a market. The how is what complicates things. Because when you talk to farmers and you tell them, do you want to access climate smart information and you know climate change is happening, you lose them most of the time. So it's not that you want to keep them in the dark. It's you need to be able to apportion the information and how you share it with the farmers. If they really want to know how the engine of the car works, they will go to the mechanic and they will take a whole three hour session and say, hey, this is what goes here and this is what happens. But what's under the hood is not relevant, but that is what we actually finance most of the time. So when you come back to how government and also development agencies work, you realize there is a lot of money that goes into agriculture to solve issues in terms of how to improve machine learning models. So you have a lot of funding that goes into technology itself, but not in the product. Nobody is willing to fund the product. People are willing to fund the innovation, the creativity. And that's where we lose it because you have a lot of money. We get approached and there's more money for us to sort of get our models better and better. But there's still no farmer who is able to get a product out of it because we are still not very close to our farmers with the technology. So I think those are some of the reasons why we see that farmers are not really willing to take this up because we are not solving the immediate problem. We are still enjoying how cool technology could be and what it could do for us. And so we're looking at tech in agriculture instead of looking at what are the agriculture problems that tech needs to solve. Are there maybe countries that you can borrow from very fast before you talk about how we can use AgriTech to solve climate change? Are there countries that you'd say if we use a model of like Germany or Mexico, we can really move ahead very fast? I think to compare apples with apples would need to look at what has worked probably in the smallholder ecosystem in Africa. And then you realize that a lot of these startups and innovations are still at a very young age. We are yet to get that technology that has blown everyone away and smallholder farmers are out of poverty. So many of us are actually still at the very early stage. Getting agriculture investment is still minimum. So we then sort of look at what has worked outside of the continent and then a good example is Israel, for example. When you look at how they have used technology to actually produce and export in a country that is actually very dry. So all this technology. Somebody said they rarely see the rains. They rarely see the rains and yet they're able to export. And so you ask yourself, how are they able to do that? Egypt as well. Egypt is doing well when you look at that. So I think those are some of the examples that we can see are happening. I think if you look at Europe and America, those examples don't really hold water for us because they have a very different starting point. They have minimum acreages of 10, 20 hectares. You would never get that year of the smallholder farmer. You have very deeply entrenched subsidy programs from the government that is not just about fertilizer. You subsidize up to the consumer level. So all that, you know, it's unfair competition that is out there. And of course, those are some of the limitations, again, that you realize we are fighting to produce for not just the Kenyan market, but for the export market. But our competitors are able to produce much more efficiently and effectively because of just the economies of scale they're able to enjoy. And now if you look at the policies that come in the free trade agreements that we have between Africa and Europe, for example, allowing European businesses to export their products into Africa. Yet our smallholder farmer is not able to compete with the small farmers to subsidize Ungar. For ourselves. You know, it's ridiculous. And so you realize that we are fighting so many battles and so we are still in the firefighting mode and then we're not able to see the whole forest. We just see the trees in front of us at that point. Do you think COVID contributed to some of these problems? Because initially when you look at the history of our country in our country, it seemed like it was a little bit stable. But then as we advance even more in tech, it seems like it's getting more problematic and more problematic. So let me talk about one of the opportunities that came amidst this tragedy of COVID. Now it is a bit easier for people to understand what digital can do in ag. So digital for agriculture is now something that people are willing to appreciate. That people are willing to appreciate e-extension services. I do not need to have 50 people out there in the field giving information to farmers. I can monitor my field based on satellite data and remotely sensed IoT devices. All this is now available due to COVID because now we've been able to expose what digitization can do for us. It is an opportunity. At the same time, it sort of pulled the rug off our feet because it sort of took away the capital that we could use to actually invest in these technologies. Many people saw job cuts. People went back to the farm not to grow for export and to grow as a cash group but actually just to survive. So you have very little money going in. You see that little money is flowing in terms of finance, loans into the agriculture space. So it's a double-edged sword. It took away a lot from us but it exposed opportunities which now are being appreciated by not just government but also private sector which is the cornerstone of actually seeing how this could thrive. Before we talk about our second-last question. Behind us anyway, I was trying to describe to you like nowadays you don't have to go to the garden. You can buy some pots and buy soil as well. You can go buy different soils and then you plant your maize in there. You can even have it in your bedroom or in your balcony and still you're farming in another stand. Do you think that is also another alternative that's actually emerging especially in these agri-tech era? I think the solutions, these vertical farming solutions, they help you reduce cost of living for example because if you have a small apartment or if you have a small space, a kitchen garden and you can reduce your cost of buying groceries already helps you reduce. So I think that is important and it can get better. You can get more efficient with how you set up your vertical gardens and all that. So I think there is a niche market for that looking at how agriculture can be practiced in the urban spaces but it's not going to solve the problem of food security because then you need to look at scalability and many people in the urban areas they would then go to work, come back in the evening buy everything from the supermarket. So you realize that the best case scenario is that we actually aggregate land and grow on larger pieces of land and that is probably a better solution but you cannot wait for the best solution to come so that you solve your problems. You need the solutions that can help you at least reduce cost of living even in urban areas. Now the climate change and global warming of course we have just come from a very extreme, I'll say it was an attacking weather condition, droughts, many lives were lost as well. I remember there was a point when Jill Biden came in and she tried to give funding that will aid women that have been affected by severe weather conditions and now right now it's flooding. So how can we curb this in terms of climate change and using agriculture? Wow okay let me look at how I could maybe summarize because climate change again opens so many opportunities and the challenges that we face. Let me talk about the opportunities that climate smart agriculture is the future of agriculture that we need to find out what are the improved seeds to be used to grow. We were used to maize that will take 9 to 12 months to mature. These days we have early maturing varieties of 6 months. We have drought tolerant crops such as sorghum which can be used. You have all these opportunities where you look at climate smart agriculture in terms of not just the seed but also looking at the practices themselves, regenerative agriculture, minimum tillage that you can basically not disturb the soil so much. Carbon sequestration right now there's a lot of hype let me say around carbon credits and how farmers can participate in carbon credits and you know unfortunately it is what always happens when there's a hype about a technology and then you have the guinea pigs are the smallholder farmers again because you sort of portray the vision of a farmer making more money through carbon credits and actually it's not the reality because no farmer will wait for over 2 years to get paid out a very small amount of money because they only produce per acre and the numbers that are being used are hectare numbers that you can see in large scale farms. So I think climate smart agriculture looking at how we can use agriculture to sequester carbon to help fight global warming are some of the key activities and the question is why should I do it? For the question for the farmers why should I care? Because from where I am I have been struggling with so many things and if you now tell me there's another struggle called climate change I can't see it maybe I feel it in a way but what would I do? What do I get from it? So looking at what is the opportunity there in terms of saying climate smart financing provide farmers who are engaging in climate smart agriculture, carbon sequestration easier access to finance. We've been talking about flooding for so long you know. There is no year when rains come and we don't talk about flooding and yet there are ways that you can use technology. Things like water harvesting. Water harvesting, setting up dams, making up irrigation schemes across these areas because these are known facts and technology can help you actually foresee this happening and how you can solve. So I think those are some of the ways that we can fight climate change but most importantly you need the army of farmers behind you to rally behind you to fight climate change but they will only do it if you answer the question of what is in it for me. It might sound very egoistic but that's the reality we are in. We expect so much from these farmers and we are ready to give so little. So help them answer that one question. What's in it for me? Because they are fighting for survival. For us we're talking about climate change in big hotels and in big boardrooms and yet the person who is feeling it most is out in the field. So let's help them answer that egoistic question if you might feel it's egoistic. I find it is very legitimate, right? Help them say what is in it for me and then we can be able to actually tackle these manners. And that means you know giving them information because awareness is the first. It's the first opportunity. And not just informing them then taking action because we inform them about so many things. We just inform farmers there is this opportunity and opportunity but we don't deliver. And that is where also as government and private sector we need to do more to help and deliver. So not just make them aware about the opportunity but actually bring the policies and vehicles in place to make it actually happen. As we finish we are done. If you are, for example, let me try to make it more creative or make it more even interesting. If you are picked to give a TED Talk on an international platform or rather let's just say right in Kenya, TED Talk Kenya and they tell you now give us your intro or your punchline about how it's so important and why it's so amazing to have this conversation about architect and the solutions and especially this should hit or target farmers in the interiors. Just a TED Talk for farmers. Yes, just like 30 seconds of your intro. My goodness. Yeah, so I think when I'm talking to farmers I would want to tell them that we can disrupt hunger. We can help them get out of the shackles of poverty by getting access to finance and output markets more consistently and sustainably to enable them to have living incomes. And the way we do that is through leveraging on the telephone, the smartphone, the feature phones that they have, the mobile banking opportunities that they have. So technology can help solve so many challenges and for them the most important thing they need to know is I want your phone to be your best friend to get you out of poverty and so it might need you to install an application or just use a USSD. Very simple for you but through that I want to guarantee you a living income. Now I've not talked about technology so much because I'm now in front of farmers so I need to put that under the hood. But you nailed it, you nailed it. Now if for example somebody wanted to reach out for your services, consultations, where can they find you? Are there digital platforms? Is there numbers? Is there an email? Yes, so basically our business is supporting grassroots agribusinesses to reach out and support farmers end to end. So if you are a grassroots business owner and you want to look at how technology can support you, build your business, then reach out to us. You can visit our website, www.agribora.com There you can be able to find a lot of information about us, our contact information. Reach out to us, give us a call. You can visit our offices. If you are in Nairobi, we are in Westlands, Raptor Road, Shiriki House. But you can also see us out at the grassroots. So reach out to your county, world agriculture officer, ask them about agribora. I bet they know about agribora and they can be able to link you with our colleagues who are at the county level to be able to help you get on board. And let's use technology to disrupt poverty. Alright, let's use tech to disrupt poverty, or to end poverty. Alright, amazing. And I think for anybody who is so curious about, you know, what are some of the opportunities, the solutions, the problems and how they can be solved, they've definitely gotten very deep insights. Are you going to give you a number? It's possible? If you can, yes. Yes, so you can reach us through 0705 859 648. You'll be able to reach to our colleagues, reach us on Facebook, Agribora 254. Yeah, and reach out and let's interact, let's support our farmers. Alright, thank you for coming to the show and interacting with us. Thanks for having me. You're welcome. We have been speaking to Kizito Odiambo, the CEO of Agribora, trying to pay for us a very in-depth outlook of how to actually get into the agriculture sector and sink in, but most importantly, use technology to expand it, especially when it comes to food production, food security. Right now the cost of living is just out of this world. You have gotten all the insights. And I think on this note is where we end it, but we're going to be paving way for an interesting segment as well, but you can always interact with us at www.y2f1.co.uk on the Grum and any other social media platforms and Minds is a brand second one. We take a break. We come back with much more. Stick around.