 Wao, John Kiremiti hendet maring anan. That is so crazy. Did that nan be an aspect that you probably considered? Was that an aspect that you thought about? I have not even thought about marriage. And let me correct you. It wasn't a mistake as you put it. That's what God wanted to happen to me. God wanted me to have someone who can rehabilitate me. Because if it was for your friend's mother, I would still be in prison. She is the one who talked to me. And at the end of the day when she realized I was still stuck in crime, she decided we go home. So I agreed with her. We kind of watched her from where I could not interact with anybody. He is also a philanthropist and above all he is a social reformist. I am so excited, very honored today to be sitting down with the one and only John Kiremiti. Hi Kiremiti. I'm good. How are you feeling today? I'm feeling good because I have always been good to my servant and my friends. So at whatever circumstances, maybe who I am now. As you can see the smile on my face, John Kiremiti is the funniest of them all. I have just been laughing here behind the scenes and I am so excited to listen to him. In case you guys know, you all know Mr. John Kiremiti, my life in crime. You guys read this book in high school probably or in primary school depending with what year you were in school. But personally these are books that have contributed to the knowledge that I've had when I was growing up. Let's start from the beginning. Mr. John Kiremiti, we know that you were in prison. And then you left prison. Let's start from, did you write some of these books while in prison or you waited until you were out? My writing started when I was still in prison. Infact I started writing when I was 7 years in prison. And I was sent there for a total of 28 years. Unfortunate thing, I appeared and the sentence was cut into two. So I had to serve 14 years. In my 7th year is when I started writing. And then this is when I came with the idea of my life in crime. I felt there was need to let people know what happens, what are the consequences of one being a criminal or being an outlaw. That idea is the one that pushed me, tried so as to help lives of the young generation. Now, like I mentioned earlier, I was working with your daughter back in the days. And she has given us this story of how life was when you came back from prison and all that. Let's start from why you actually went to prison. You know, you don't go to prison because of preaching or because of being a good boy. I went there because of robberies. And as I mentioned, I was charged with a number of counts of robbery with violence, which of course I had committed. So this is why I was sent to a maximum prison. It was then in the only big prison, Nagvisha maximum. Actually we were among the first group to go to Nagvisha maximum prison. It was newly built and so given maximum protection. Well, fortunately, my sentence of 28 years was slashed and I had served 14 years. And during those 14 years that I felt of writing, interestingly it was because I read a book by an old Alunas Moggichal who was to become my friend when I was released and across the bridge. I found it very interesting because he was trying to show how crime, people go about crime, how criminals are meant. He even talked about going to prison. And then when I read, I saw he didn't know much about prison because he had never said this is why I decided to write about what crime really is and what prison he is like. So I sent another book in prison that was in 1977 and years later I was released. How old were you when you went to prison? 21 years old. Very young. But now you see I'm asking myself like what actually just got you into crime. Is it your upbringing because I also read somewhere that you dropped out of school and that's when probably crime started. What do you think led you into these actions? It was exactly pointed out why I went to crime because when I dropped out of school, I could not go back home. And I always told people that my parents were teachers so the fear here was if I went back home I would be retributed. So I decided to hang around in Nairobi and unfortunately I joined the wrong group. I actually even slept in the streets and I stayed in the streets for a few months but then with some education obviously you know how to put two and two together to make a form. I realized I could take myself out of the streets and that's how I went about it. Unfortunately I had already entered or known a number of criminals so when I left these three kids I joined the other bigger group and the bigger those a bit aged. At that young age oh wow now you see when you got to prison at 21 years I want to know what was actually going through your mind when that particular moment that you learnt that you're going to prison for 28 years? I'm a very fortunate guy or I've made myself that because nothing worries me. When I know I've been imprisoned and there's no way out of it the next thing that comes into my mind is how do I go about this? How do I see my 20 years imprisonment through? And the first thing was to think about an appeal which I did and the sentence was slashed and then from there I was ready to go through the 14 years and I wasn't the first person to be in prison there are others who had been in prison over 60 years and they were in prison especially in Naivasha there were snaps attached to where you're sleeping if you have three in the same cell the one at the center's photo will be there one on your left or the other on your right and they even indicated in the number of years you have been imprisoned and when your sentence expires so I went around looking at these things and I saw there are people who while still in 70s were to be released in 20s 20s, 10s, 20s, something so seeing this for the sentence if you are given like a friend of mine called Kamanji was given 50 years imprisonment well you can imagine that's just exciting and I realized he was going through age globally he did not even care yeah because he had no option and when you have no option I think we have better play the music is coming yeah that's how I manage now you know sometimes we blame parents for not doing a good job when it comes to bringing up their children and that is why some say that's why they end up in crimes do you think you could blame your parents for not probably showing you the right way I'm a ulu kuatu kichangumu you know it's an interesting question I wanted to remind you and tell me because you visited the hospitals you've gone to maternity wands have you ever seen a maternity wands labored parents who give birth to rambas or doctors or philosophers professors and those children are born the same innocent but as they grow what gets into them is what they become I started being wayward but when I was still a teenager even when I was 13 years I wasn't a good boy and even my parents are not at least I had made sure I got to schools right near them and but that would help because the only form one can get is self-maint kata uki jali biwa na nini kata uki wa fanya nini you cannot change for instance I received 48 years 48 stroke of the king oh yeah and that did not inform me all of us so changing comes from within your heart you look at the things you look at your past you look at what you have gained that extent then you start rehabilitating yourself and you do it by now moving from the kind of people you link with to another group because that helps a lot you stop moving about with those you know are bad guys and you try to look at those we call soft although they may not be as good as you or what but then you can still since you know what you are doing kuta and goji are two kai now pakau kai now so is to save yourself yeah you started writing nata seven years into the prison was that the time you feel you know the rehabilitation had started to work on your character or had you changed before and what has what what actually led to that change in fact I felt that I should let people know what happens because I think I was born a writer because even when I was in prison I would try to smug out some information for people to know what prison is like and so even when I got out I started continue I even own my own newspaper in moranga which people which people call the sharpener because it was sharpening them yes and it did a lot to change the street kids in moranga and those who are probably thinking of becoming criminals at the same time will also concentrate on trying to tell the administration where they are going wrong because whenever I start doing something I don't fear anything so I would even talk about who is who I would even talk about the governor and the things he is doing of those things so that curry is the one that pushes me to date so at okay I get that now let's talk about family when you went to prison did you have a family had you met Miriam your wife at the time when I went to prison I lost everything I think the only person I made with was my elder sister and my mother because they are the only ones who could come to see me others were not able to come after all there were so many restrictions one had to say your connection she has to be allowed to see me so let me say the elder sister used to come and she is the one who helped me with books she would smuggle in books for me through a friend Rwanda and then my mum would come and try to tell me how things are and so there was luck I had some luck because I had someone who cared most people there get it hard it's a tough place to be like I'm telling you right now if someone tells me to go to prison for two days and he'll give me two million I'd rather do without that two million shelling yeah because lack of freedom is the worst thing that one can ever experience personal freedom so at what point now did you meet Miriam I was still in the streets doing this and that if you can remember I talked of coming across actually it was a bus pass dropped somewhere looked at the photo it indicated why she was schooling and decided to take it to her not because I was looking for a girl it's because I have a soft heart I'm a good person in spite of having been around I have a very kind heart and a very soft spoken person so that's when at that point you went and took it to her and you spoke and what did you tell her that's how our relation started yes and it appeared like we needed each other and that's what happened but when I went to prison for the end of it yeah so when you came back you had to look for her okay I knew what she was because she had told me and she used to visit me in prison but at a certain point I told her you should not be coming because now you've come for about three four years do you think you'll still go ahead by the time I'm dealing with my 28th year how would you be you want to tell me you'll stay like that until I come out so I gave her that friend she didn't like it but at least she had no option I even asked her not to be visiting me because you know when I came out I told her not to visit me because she had told me that she would not come because she had no option and she won't make it so I wanted to have that freedom I wanted to stay with prisoners there in land believing that I was able to so that I would be able to go out no I would be able to go out but when you start thinking about what you left outside there you will be able to go out because now you will start missing that life so when I came out I joined Udu society although or not as an employee there was a father who used to be very friendly I would work with him he would come to visit me through him I knew about street kids I joined people employed by Udu society they became my friends so I would move out and out with them and in the process I met my current wife who is your friend's daughter okay that sounds okay now did you explain to her now you see I am from prison and probably you could have some trauma from there and the way she handles you is a bit different how did you approach her with that conversation she didn't even know who I was she only knew of a very good young man who didn't know anything and she realized there was the young KMT people know after I stayed with her for about six months but uh since I was a good boy we continued she did not mind incidentally she was a nun okay I remember yes so as you hear the scientists say you know unliked posts that's right yes but like posts repelled oh wow John Kiremiti ended marrying a nun that is so crazy did that nun be an aspect that you probably you know considered was that an aspect that you thought about I have I have not even thought about marriage and let me correct you it wasn't a mistake as you put it that's what God wanted to happen to me she wanted God wanted me to have someone who can rehabilitate me because if it was and for your friends mother I would still be in prison she is the one who talked to me and at the end of the day when she realized I was still stuck in crime she decided we go home so I agreed with her we went home from where we could not interact with anybody and then you are blessed with three beautiful daughters brilliant daughters I have interacted with them I can say for a fact I know you're very proud of them but you also mentioning something that you are so grateful you did not get a boy child why is that I've preached that I've said this so many times that I wouldn't mind to repeat it here I'm very proud of those daughters and God will listen to my prayers because I wouldn't have wanted to have a son I might be having a son somewhere out there I don't know but sometimes I try to think if for instance I had a son and he tried to behave like I did where I was young then he wouldn't agree and because probably he wouldn't even want to listen to me when I told him that crime does not pay and if he was still young he would have killed him and then maybe would have clashed and obviously I know how to use a gun I would have used it on him yeah I don't choose whom I have to use a gun to as long as we do not agree that is during that time now do you ever probably not now as your kids the girls were growing up did you ever have any worry that one of them could get into crime did you ever have such worry that has never touched my mind but let me tell they are very very brave girls they are like boys they know how to handle themselves who has kutisha tambojawao aren't actually when you happy so they are like me the difference is they are girls very very brave girls as you have witnessed and this is why I am very proud of them whenever they are whenever they go and you know they keep on knowing wanting to know how I'm doing there are times even when the mother complains why do these girls how daughters call you only they have forgotten that of their mother don't know depends on how you behave what you have in them or how you treat them that's it because for instance I never banish a child I talk to them tell them this is bad this is bad you did but but the mother hooo they tell her ooo she knows how to treat them when they are wrong but I do not know to say they have ever gone long but even those small things that children do she wouldn't allow the member she was a nun and she wanted it still wants them to be and behave like a nun would ooo what are those ino values that you are very keen to instill in your daughters come again those values that you are very keen to instill in them probably just two values number one for then have always wanted them to know there is a future in front of them two they should not depend on anyone they should know that they are own helpers don't depend on your dad don't depend on your mom when your mom said you something know how to handle it well when I said them something they know how to okay go about their ways because I have instilled wisdom in them I have instilled that I call it a 60 cents a 60 cents when you know what you shouldn't do and when you are suspicious of what you are about to do is wrong so having prepare them with that and other things well I set them free and I'm very proud of them yes brilliant now let's talk about how many books have you written so far and how many have been published I've written six in fact there were seven in total five of them are already in the market but the sixth one the abductions quant has not been done but let me say I hand the management saying they are going to produce it then it appears they don't even know where the manuscript is they are times when publishers you make you get annoyed and for a person like me to get annoyed means bad because when I'm annoyed I don't even know who is who like now I understand they don't even know where the manuscript is and we have already decided on agreement but I want to give it time yeah I see when I as head of the day no they don't have it then I'll take action yeah now one of your books was made into a movie is it my life with a criminal or my life in crime uh uh in my book no that's about so much I understand yes Netflix as the readers and film watchers the book they would wish to be turned into a movie and I see I got about maybe 90 percent but so I think they will do it but I do not want to talk much on that subject because right now it's a subject that is going on you know there has to be some agreement between the writer and the publisher and so this is something that I hope will be will go well and something that is going on yeah we are looking forward to see that because I mean it would be great to just watch this come into vision now because Netflix Netflix is an international firm so when it comes to Netflix you obviously expect something good yeah so I'm happy about that but then we have to wait and see the terms everything when it goes well for us yes for sure okay now when you look at the production and the books you've written and the stories you've written I want to know is there a scenarios where young people have approached you with you know the same crime stories and probably seeking advice from you have you had such experiences what kind of experience like the what kind of experience are you probably what you have in mind because for example my life in crime no the crime itself maybe young people just come to you and they are just seeking advice maybe they are from prison or just generally around that people know I changed and if someone comes with that kind of question to me or that kind of a subject I think they wouldn't like my answer because I know crime does not pay and it will be okay for me to tell them and let them know what you are trying to do we'll see you in prison and I would actually also let them know times have come you know during our time they will announce the TVs look at what's happening today so it's time when people realize maboha iya iya meisha fanya kasi kwa bidi waka duita tu dukwa na iyo zahutu dukwa tu na jua tako na kituki na kuchupua and at the same time vitedo hivyo vina takam tuana akili extra akili ataka mami nige kwa na nga crime still nige survive saba mami nige jua kuna cizi TV I don't know what to know lakini sasawara waka hukua atawa jui bila watafanya you think because you have hidden your face you cannot put a mask yes and you know after throwing it away the suit you will be seeing this is the person the way you walk everything so time has come for people to realize crime jaya crime in a malizo is this quote behind here that you told me it carries so much meaning the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago the second best time is now you mentioned that it holds a lot of meaning what is that look a lot it's not even talking about trees it's talking about even life itself if there is something you did not know 20 years ago it's time for you to know it now so everything that passed you don't look back even me something doing that time and when that thing is good do it now i think nwa chai na wami se mahivu and i agree that how is a typical day for you keriamiti how is a typical day for you now now it is i don't think i can talk about that not that it's banned but because i don't even know oh really my person i don't even know how my day is like because i wake up today and feel i don't want to go anywhere and i just hang around there is time when i wake up very early and start moving start going so life is like that don't plan things that we will not plan because it's only God who can know when your plan is going to work so i see it think and of course pray that my day becomes good in the morning and when i get to the bed i pray that i sweep where i see tomorrow i've seen so many friends there are some questions or obviously that could come to your mind i was the only one in crime industry i wasn't the only one in prison and these guys are still here wakotu huko sazginana edana gudana mwange trikwana naona this man i mean zheka zahindi amma amma pacha na ma skini mwingi but then i attribute this to not using what i call the 60 cents una kuja nesma miitoka prison kilamutu anadyo nili kuwa jela maybe wanali tukia una ku tukia nawa they are prison materials kutamutu anadyo nili kuwa jela so usually even think about them think about yourself and how you can rehabilitate yourself because no one can rehabilitate you it's self-made self-rehabilitation and okay you are heavy and uh mata na irobi iwa na nyuubaza five story midbuta na moja kaniya biya iwa selling tires metimented me is in his angle na nyuubani angle saza nige sema nini kusima ume jaribu ume jaribu waya sana sana 60 cents una kuwa na five story building na ume tukia jela ume jaribu yes so lives like that at ways kupanana since water sinana kama bila in tunili jurikana juia wadishi kama water doha zaku juia kilamutu anadyke waga rika bituzigi naata weo shanga lakini e awa kuwa kama mimi i want you to know I'm the one who started education in prison na saza uneskia wadu anafaniyaata, cpa, huku, anafaniya mi tihani yote kuna mi tihani unafaniya huku injaba wakuna huku prison but i started this because nikuwa tuna kahiwio I realized kama wadu naona na tokapokotu ana ima ngombe na vi tukama hezo unaku tata jina kia resi kuandika I realized kusama anta awa tata nikuwa tikiwa because I was given a position where I was midyunil kuwana ingiza afungwa na wadikiwa ila lembo na uikawa lembo kwa kifua your name and your number the number you are given midyunil kuwana wa peya na kuri gana na register ila ikona I realized I realized kwa tikiwa nama jina yao so tuki kana maya ma bia ati jina wadikiwa so we started showing them one, two, three marjina and kwa kaza kusama na wadikiwa na wadikiwa na fly sana wapokotu wadikiwa na mahasai na wadikiwa na and then as we stayed wadikiwa kansa kwi gia jela wadikiwa na degrees wadikiwa mesoma sana they took over sada hata wadikiwa na fanya cpa kuko so that's it but then I'm the one who began that so it goes down in history to be the person who started education in yaa and they know it very nice in case you didn't know now you know John Kiriamiti did that as we finish up you told me that you still read books to date do you know approximately how many books you've read so far I cannot even guess not 200 but I know it's hundreds yes yes I have a library at home even as I travel like when I was coming to Nairoi from Langa I've carried two books I might read the two books within those four days I'll stay here so I read and I cannot stop reading I cannot know therefore the number of books I've read but there are many and as I told you I have a library a big library at home at home yes nani uko ucha hey clearly that is a lot of knowledge we have to keep on reading how do you think the reading culture especially right now when we have social media has been lately you know there's this feeling that people do not read but I quite disagree with maoniawa ya watu people read I know I have those five titles and they all go people read because you give them something good to read they want to become a writer and you know what you want know the people you want to reach kama ni philosophy where I kia ma philosophy of how kama ni ya watu aschini kama wango now I kia what they want to read and when I tell you before anything else I make my reading very simple and I touch on everyone who would want to know and this is what they did in my works nidiyangani omitabu zigina na onam tu aki adiga kama hapa tuko hapa na nangari na onam oh he tied to hata mi when you see 11 na se mani and I'm a writer so you think writers should know we should give people the things they want to as long as we know the subject we continue writing think of us when you come about a subject a certain subject look at what you can give you think that the subject concerning the subject you have in mind they caught me a crime writer but then books like the sinister trove is not as no crime writer is for who are two we call na tricks who kuna in attack intelligence yes please let tell your fans something what do you do like them to know what lesson you do like to share with them please talk to them there's something I want to tell you fans be my fans or be what you call yourself if for instance I go with you and we went to about 50 uh house you have 50 stories you look down and tell me I'm going to jump there I'll tell you if you take you about three minutes together dive because I cannot tell you to dive you know when you dive there you'll die what do I tell you dive go meet your death so guys have nothing to tell you but I want you to know you have you are full of knowledge if you can be able to read a book and complete you can be able to write one and complete it you are all writers only that you have not started writing think of what others want to read and please try and then no one is born a writer or a rinda we are all born the same but then when you teach yourself to do something you do it see do you know not that kuna mafudu wa bao see is not that kuna pa tiyani tegeneza kaka kameza kapa sita reza with all this knowledge you think I have tegeneza atamuiko so you see kira mutua kuna ijiaki promote what you know or what you have in mind but you guys be good to yourselves before anything else John Keramiti says be good to yourself and he also says if you teach yourself something you will do it thank you so much John Keramiti we are most welcome atami nimi fly kupadana na wewe na piya ati wewe rafiki ya watoto wangu so I think you are like them be brave asante sana all right brave is my second name thank you so much guys for watching this episode of buzzard stars with the legendary John Keramiti make sure to leave a comment down below but in the meantime thank you so much for watching my good name is Miskithinji