 Welcome everybody to another episode of The Nonprofit Show. We have not only one of the great minds in the nonprofit sector with us today, but a real trooper because Tony Bell joins us. We don't always get to get him, so it's a real pleasure when he does, but he is coming to us from a remote location because his community was just slammed with a big storm and all the power is out. So we do what we got to do, right? I mean, we are in the nonprofit space, we are tenacious and we solve problems and we show up when we need to. So it's always an honor to be here for The Nonprofit Show. Always an honor to be with you, Julia, and I love the Ask and Answer episodes. Yeah, I do too. You know, Tony, we've been doing this now more than 800 and almost 830 episodes. And I'll tell you, the questions are fascinating and what I think is really interesting when I step back and I think about the trajectory of this, how the questions have changed since the start of the pandemic and new questions are coming in all the time. I mean, I can see how issues are coming up with the nonprofit sector as we evolve during interesting times. And so that's what I think is so interesting about this. But anyway, Tony Bell, Senior Director Relationship Center of National University. National University based in San Diego, it has online portals throughout, you know, obviously I would say any English speaking student, right? Sure. I mean, it's an international educational institution and it's really been fun to work alongside with Tony and his team there. We are super, super grateful for the support of our sponsors and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University where Tony joins us from Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd and Nonprofit Tech Talk. You know, we, I mentioned earlier more than 800 episodes and you can get to us from many, many ways through our broadcast streaming portals, through our podcasts. If you'd just like to consume audio and now our app, download the app. You can take a quick picture of this QR code and we will be in contact with you every day once the show is up. It's super, super cool. Okay, you ready to go, my friend? Let's do it. Let's see what kind of questions have been presented to us today. Okay, Samuel from Denver, Colorado asks, we are reviewing our board diversity policies and it has been suggested that we do not allow elected officials to sit on our board. This is primarily due to potential conflict issues. Any thoughts? So it is a great question. And I could see why certain board members would find value in having a local official sit on the board, right? The connectivity, connection to community, all of that stuff. But you're definitely sending a strong message to your community when you do that because it is my belief that then you are automatically supporting that candidate when they run again, supporting their policies just by nature of where they're gonna sit and their role with the organization. So just consider whether or not that particular elected official might be polarizing not only to part of the community that you're serving, but maybe part of your donor base. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a really a powerful question because one thought I have, Tony, is like, if you're in a rural community where you don't have as big of a pool of people, yeah, those elected officials, they're part of the community anyway. And so they are doing this. But I agree with you. I think you have to look at this and you have to be very, very transparent about when is it appropriate to recuse somebody from even a conversation, not just to vote, even recuse himself from being a part of a potential discussion. And I agree, man, and this is even what you said is fascinating because we are moving into a general election cycle. And so things are gonna be amplified anyway. So when you look at the landscape of how the political situation is, it is something to be thinking about. But I like that they're redoing their board diversity policies. Yes, definitely want to applaud that. And what you said is really important, Julia, about recusing themselves. Should they go down this road or should any organization? And that's true of regardless of what the individual does as a profession or whether or not they are an elected official. So those conflict of interest policies and really holding true to those are really important for all organizations. Right, right. I love this question and I think you just need to be really thoughtful about it. I would also wonder, Samuel, going the other direction, what the, you know, so if it's like a city council or a county government or whatever the offices, it would be interesting to know what their policies are, right? I mean, wouldn't you, I don't know, but I would think that they, whoever that government agency is, would have some sort of guidelines. I'm sure you're absolutely correct with that. So yeah, it's gonna go in both ways. Really interesting, Samuel, thank you. Hey, Derek from Houston, Texas writes, how hard should we push our own employees to contribute to our nonprofit? I know our board has to have 100% financial participation, but should we try this with our own staff? They don't make a ton of money, yeah, but they have a lot of heart. I'm sure they do have a lot of heart and it is an interesting question because a lot of organizations do consider to what degree should they encourage their employees to give, you know, to their employer. So, you know, so my feeling is, one is you don't push it all. So the question of how hard should we push, you don't push it all, but you provide them with the opportunity and this is certainly very true in higher ed. So a lot of folks working in higher ed like I do, it's not uncommon for you to get an annual appeal from the university. And there are, you know, again, in higher ed, there are so many scholarships that you can contribute to. There are just so many different ways to kind of find your passion place in terms of supporting the student, you know, in higher ed experience. So that's not uncommon. So provide them an opportunity, include them perhaps in your general annual campaign. One, they get to see what you're doing. Yeah, I love that. You know, that's a great comment. That's really powerful because you're right. We don't always see what development's doing. Right, no, no, exactly. So that's what I would recommend. I mean, we don't push it all, but we provide them an opportunity to participate like we would anyone else in the community. Yeah, I like your approach on this. And I have never been a part of this discussion other. I mean, obviously the board work, but I've never been in that environment. So this was a somewhat of an interesting question, but I love what you just said is magical. Show them what you're doing. Show them. Yeah, so that they know. Really interesting. Well, Derek in Texas, I hope that helps you because that's a really big question. Oh, and we might have lost Tony briefly. So let's go ahead and oh, here he is. He's back with us. Let's ask this next question. And I'm not sure if Tony will be able to join us or not, but let's go ahead and take a look at it. What recommendations might you have for me to personally uncover my own unconscious bias that I might have? I'm trying to be more aware Jedi, but frankly, I don't want to just talk about it without an action plan of sorts. And you know what? This person's coming just from Great Falls, Montana. Awesome. Really, really powerful. I'm not trying to bash Montana, but you know, smaller community probably, probably not a lot of different types of people having this discussion within their community. Super cool. Super cool. So good job. Well, what are your thoughts on this, Tony? Yeah, so there are a lot of learning opportunity. So if you have access to LinkedIn learning, there are a lot of workshops and courses available through LinkedIn learning around unconscious biases. There are also, especially in today's landscape, there are terrific opportunities and lots of books. So think about maybe even within the entire organization, creating some type of book club. We do that in our business unit. Yeah, at National University, we're currently all reading the same book to support our DEI initiatives. And then we meet every other week to discuss the content in small groups. So really consider some type of book club to help drive this across the entire organization. But really applaud, really applaud name withheld for realizing that we all have unconscious biases. It's not, I mean, we all do. And so whatever we can do to uncover those and realize how to put ourselves in check when we realize that we're exhibiting those behaviors, the better we'll all be. Yeah, I love the idea of the book club for so many reasons. I think it's a really great idea. And that's another discussion, but I think that's a great way to look at this because my first thought is that, name withheld, if you're having this question and you're thinking about it, you're not alone. And there are other people asking the same thing. So maybe within your organization or maybe within your community or the sector with which you work, this is a great opportunity or time to bring in an outside speaker or do some sort of training that kind of impacts more people, right? Not just you, but gets everybody going. And I love this, so good job. This is a great question. And even this week, man, with the Supreme Court making some decisions that are somewhat shocking to me personally, this is a time for us to be reasserting these conversations and talking about this. So good job, Great Falls, Montana. Okay, let's go to Pauline. Pauline asks the question, we are thinking about hiring an outside advocate, basically a professional lobbyist. We work in the cultural space and while we don't have a specific policy agenda, it might be time for us to move in this direction. Might you have any advice? Yeah, so I think it's an interesting question and throughout my experience, I've been with organizations where we've talked about, whether or not there was a value in making this kind of investment. In those scenarios, we opted out of that investment only because we felt like the lobbyist really, the purpose of the lobbyist really was to drive policy. If your interest really is connectivity to your local representative or your state representative, so that you have kind of that inside track and that inside champion of your organization when it comes to funding opportunities at those levels, you could be able to do that in developing that relationship directly, I would think, through your cause and through your mission. It's, again, that's just my opinion on that, is if you're going to invest in a lobbyist, I would think that it's because you do wanna drive policy and you do have some sort of policy agenda. If it is strictly to gain access to funding opportunities, I would think about how the investment in the lobbyist might be redirected to invest in a development professional that might be able to generate funds for the organization for a longer term. So, again, there's so many nuances and things to kind of dig deep into uncovering a lot of these questions. But basically, it's just my personal opinion around the investment and is it, depending on what you expect your outcome to be, is it the right place for the investment? You know, I love what you said and I think you're absolutely right. The value of hiring another development officer is probably ultimately gonna serve you more. But I think maybe, and I know having served on cultural boards, believe me, I know that there's a lot of conflict between the different performing arts. They don't always play well together, which is interesting. But this might be more of a sector investment, like somebody who's lobbying for the entire cultural space. So there's somebody that's gonna represent the ballet, the symphony, the museums, opera, youth orchestra, all of those things, whatever they may be, to have it more of a sector specific. Because it's expensive. I think that, yeah, and I love what you said there, because it is kind of a collective impact opportunity if multiple cultural arts organizations in that community were to come together to invest in a lobbyist and recognizing, just recognizing that whatever that lobbyist did or contributed to the arts in that community, it benefits everyone, regardless of which C3 directly makes the deposit of the cash or the body, so. Right, right, yeah. I think it's an interesting thing. And this is not an inexpensive investment. And then also, Tony, aren't you required, and I could be off on this, but aren't you required by law to also disclose that you have lobbyists that are working for you? So I mean, does that go on the 990? That's my understanding. Yeah, so it's not, it's not without its peril. I guess I'm gonna use that word. I mean, you know. Well, I think it's like anything that we do in nonprofit and as nonprofit leaders, we need to do it in transparency. So I would just, to your point, anything that we do, somewhere there's going to be a place for us to acknowledge that activity, report on that activity. Yeah, I agree, I agree. Okay, we got, I think maybe just one more question. Nadine from Philadelphia writes in, we've been, and I love this, we've been messing around. I know me too. We've been messing around. That just says it all to me. In my opinion, for far too long on a statement explaining what we do, I think we need a one sentence statement that says what our nonprofit does. Do you think this matters or should I just go the flow, stick to the script? It's super long and can't be memorized. So, poor Nadine, I've been there with you, sister. I understand, right? You know. Well, I love that Nadine is clearly a, let's just get it done kind of individual, right? It's like, if I can get it done in one sentence and not five or six, then let's get it done in one. So my guess is that Nadine is a terrific contributor to her organization and meeting goals left and right. I love it, yeah, yeah, that's cool. Just based on Nadine, we'll just cut your chase. But of course, I mean, if a lot of times you only have a hot man with someone to get your point across. And then of course, the hope is that that one sentence then leads to an opportunity for you to schedule time to develop a deeper relationship with the potential donor. But I agree with Nadine, if it's possible, if you can get it in one sentence, then do that. What I would recommend though, if organizationally, for whatever reason, we can't come to consensus on a one sentence kind of statement about the organization, then take the super long one and use your voice, Nadine, and consolidate that in your own way. So even though we have terrific mission statements, vision statements, case for support, all of those things for our organizations, we still have to show up as our authentic self in the delivery of this communication. So take the super long one that you can't memorize probably because it doesn't feel genuine to you. Yeah, good point. But take the talking points and be you, Nadine, but be true to the mission, vision, and values of the organization that are clearly defined in the super long can't be memorized statement. You know, I love what you said about that because I'll tell you with the nonprofit show and with the American nonprofit academy, I mean, my ecosystem obviously are nonprofits, right? Many people reaching out to me every day, many, many people really from around the world, but predominantly, you know, North America. And I am amazed at the number of organizations who have a name that does not say what they do, or you can't even define or even into it what they might do. And then when I ask, what is it that you do? There's a big divergence, Tony. There's those that have, you know, one quick statement and then others that you can tell that they're writing free form for a paragraph or two trying to explain what they do. Before they've ever gotten to the point of asking me to support them or engage with them or asking their question or whatever. And it's a really interesting thing to see, you know, because at the root of it, it's a communications issue. Oh, for sure. And you can usually tell, like you were just saying, you can usually tell when someone's trying to share with you a canned statement, the hesitation, you know, and a lot of times you'll get more ums and that delivery than you would get if it were free form. Because the um is creating the space for them to remember what the next sentence is supposed to be. So, you know, so it's a great question that, again, Nadine puts out there because there are those organizations whose communication is just too much for a, what could I say, an atmosphere of sound bites. Like everyone now lives in sound bites. So really what Nadine's looking for is that sound bite that is then going to interest them enough to create an opportunity for a deeper conversation. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I was just thinking when you mentioned that I surfed on a board years and years ago that we had a tagline change because our mission kind of changed a little bit and it was literally like six words. And the CEO got a stack of $10 bills, $200 worth of $10 bills and went through the campus, which was pretty large and said to employees, can you tell me what our new tagline is? And it was from like the day porters to programming to people in the cafeteria, everything and passed out those $10 bills to those that could say it. And it was fun. It wasn't shameful, we weren't, she wasn't shaming anybody but it was like, it spread like wildfire. The CEO's going through the campus and you know and it was such a great way to get everybody on board with this quick marketing change because we do, our teams need to be able to communicate. I loved what you said about the um moment. Yeah, Nadine, I think you need to take Tony's advice and you know, if nothing else come up with one that's your own and maybe your organization will join in and start using it. You never know. Well, hey, this has been a lot of fun. I want to witness everybody, Tony's home office had a severe power outage and bless his heart. He jumped in his car, toodled around his community to find some power so he could log in with us today. You are a champion, my friend of our sector. Thank you very much. It's always such an honor to be here, really. I just can't say it enough. It's an absolute joy. So thank you for inviting me to be part of these really fun and informative conversations. Well, you are welcome anytime. I know you are an incredibly busy and dare I say important man and when we can get you on the nonprofit show, we're excited. So thank you. Well, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Hey everybody, we want to make sure that we express our gratitude to our presenting sponsors and they include Blumerang American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd and nonprofit tech talk. These are the people that join us day in and day out on our journey as we educate and we connect with nonprofits across this great country of ours. It's truly amazing. You know, Tony, I know you know this number, but it always shocks me when I say it, 1.8 million registered nonprofits in the United States. I know, I know. That's a lot of people doing a lot of great work. Yeah, isn't that is it? And that's the way to end this week because you are right. It's a lot of great people doing a lot of great work. Hey everybody, as we like to end every episode of the nonprofit show, we want to remind you to stay well so you can do well.