 Hello everyone, in today's discussion we are taking a very special topic, career in IFS that is Indian Foreign Service. Through UPSC you have number of services, out of them top three which are always the most preferred choices are IS, IFS and IPS. When these three letters for each services come, most of you and take it in the letters but if there is a gap in understanding between the letters and the spirit and specially this relates to IFS, Indian Foreign Service. Because in Indian Police Service and Indian Administrative Service as they most of the time they work inside the country, right starting from the block level to the district and also in the state or maybe in the country at the central level. So you get a chance to understand more about them, interact with them but when it comes to Indian Foreign Service, most of the candidates they understand that this service is related only to becoming ambassador of Indian in the country and a candidate has to remain most of the time outside the country. But this is not the reality, it is a very dynamic career, the scope is much wider bigger than that both inside and outside the country. To understand what are the different career prospects, what are the different positions that Indian Foreign Service officer holds and what are the challenges an officer has to fail and how they contribute in a big way to the country while being Indian Foreign Service. Today we are going to have a discussion with Mrs. Rina Pandey. Mrs. Pandey started her career as a lecturer in economics in Holy Cross College, Tricy, Tamil Nadu. She joined Indian Foreign Service in 1976 batch. She has worked in different capacities at headquarters in the Ministry of External Affairs, Delhi and served in several missions abroad like Brussels, Manila, Kathmandu and London. She was consul general in Istanbul and head of mission of Armenia and Georgia. She was one deputation under three dynamic prime ministers of India, Mr. SD Devgoda, Mr. I.K. Gujaral and Mr. Atal Bihari Bajpayee. Let us welcome Mrs. Rina Pandey in today's discussion. Welcome Madam to this program on career in Indian Foreign Service. Thank you. As you have very long experience, we will discuss and I am sure the discussion will benefit a lot to the future's parents also and also those who have joined to understand more about the service and their scope of work. But before we begin, can we have a little bit of your background where you were born and brought up and how the whole career began with? Yes. Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. I was born in Kurg in Karnataka but lived most of my life in Yelkot which is a beautiful hill station in Salem District, Tamil Nadu. So my education was in the convent in Yelkot and then for my graduation and post-graduation I came to Madras to Stella Maris College. I majored in economics and then I taught economics in a college in Trichy, Holy Cross College and then came to Delhi where I joined the Ministry of External Affairs and the Foreign Service. So then began a totally, what should I say, uncharted kind of career. Before we go into that territory to understand, you also had a wonderful career in teaching. Yes. So most of the time students have this question also, why did you change even if you go into UPSC, the question comes that you could have enjoyed a very comfortable, lucrative career in teaching. Yes. Why did you think of going for Indian Foreign Service? Well, let me say this was more the dream of my mother who was a very intelligent, bright lady, but who naturally in those years you were not allowed to study too much. She wanted to do medicine and be a doctor. So she always wanted her children to go out into the world, come out of that little hill station, little district where we lived and Freddy Owings. So it was she who filled the forms and sent me. Did you take it like it was a dream of your mother, but did you also had a similar dream when it was a forced dream on you? It wasn't forced. Well, let me say I did not have any particular ambition. You're right. My mother was my inspiration, has been all my life. And when I got the opportunity to be in the Ministry of External Affairs, I was very happy. I mean, I thought, okay, this is another world that opens for this girl who has come all the way from the South, never been to the North before. So this was another kind of adventure. So the Foreign Service for me was a wonderful experience, an experience that I wouldn't want to change and one which I would really love more young Indians to come into. See that was the time when people knew a little bit about Foreign Service. Today, people are knowing more about that. And most of the time, their preferred choice is Indian Administrative Service as compared to Indian Foreign Service. But at that point of time, and as a female, as a really, I think it could be a bigger choice, why didn't you go for Indian Administrative Service and why you thought of Indian Foreign Service? You're talking of that time, okay. Go back to 1948 and the first woman who entered the Foreign Service or even came to the, in front of the UPSC was from Kurg, Miss Sibi Mutama who holds a unique place in the Ministry of External Affairs because she defied all norms. Reportedly, she was even discouraged at the interview board by the members to join the Foreign Service. But she said it's her choice and she joined. That's a really important information that long back, somebody could dare of taking it out so nicely. Today, of course, a majority of the girls are going for Indian Foreign Service. But very few people, if I talk in general, understand what is Indian Foreign Service. There is an opportunity for the students to understand about Indian Administrative Service, Indian Police Service because they come across or they get an opportunity to meet them and understand their activities and works also. But when it comes to Foreign Service, most of the aspirants for civil services, they are not aware about what exactly is the career there. So in the interest of them for their better understanding, can you please tell what is a career in Indian Foreign Service and how they can really contribute to the nation? A career in the Foreign Service is a wonderful opportunity to broaden one's perspective. And also, in my personal view, I feel that the work you do is so diverse, there is never a dull moment because you are out far away from your country and you very often have to think on the spot what action to do. Now the kind of work you do is also so varied. You may be handling publicity and promotion of India. You may be handling commercial and economic work, which is totally another field. You may be handling culture and social events. You may be handling political kind of work, which is fascinating because you are going to report to your ministry on the political conditions in that country and what India's role would be in dealing with that country. And today with India setting its footprint so much into the world, we have found a voice also in so many fora. We are not just in, we are talking of multilateral fora. We are talking of mini-lateralism also, where we are in small groups also. India's footprint is now across the world. And I feel that it needs more representation abroad by our people, by our smart young women and men to carry the message of India, which has always followed the principle of Vasudhaiva Kutumbakta, Sabkasa, Sabkavikas, Sabkavishwas. This is a wonderful kind of message that we give to the world. And we are not just a democracy, we are also somebody who delivers democracy. So it means that this career is not only for the international relation for political region, but it has a lot of cultural contribution and it has also the economic contribution to give in relation to the country. Before we move forward, I would like to understand the officers, even in Indian police service or Indian state, they also have to work with the politicians. And you also get opportunity and Indian foreign service to work under politicians. What is the major difference between the two? Working with the politician being an ISN IPS and interacting with the politician in Indian foreign service. Well, that is a very unique question that I have never been asked before. But Mr. Mishra, for me, let me say one advantage I had, I was a lady. So they were all very kind to me. The families of the Prime Minister was able to establish a very good rapport with them, which continued even after I left. So they did not, because I had nothing to do with the local politics in Indian foreign service, there is minimal political interaction. We hardly ever, because we don't, while we are posted in Delhi also, we have nothing to do with even the politics of the Delhi government or the politics of any state. We only deal with them if they are going on a visit abroad, a delegation, even then we do not come into direct contact with them while at headquarters. Their office or the concerned ministry gets in touch with us to work out the program in coordination with our embassy abroad. It's when they come actually to that country and you are posted in that mission, you have direct contact with them. But that is also so minimal. It could be for one day, it could be for two days, max three days, that's all they are there for. And that program is already fixed. So you just, you know, facilitate their interaction with the local political leaders or for whatever purpose they came, if they came for a conference, you make sure they are comfortable and they go back. So it's not, and they also know that we have nothing to do with politics in India. So I think for that fact alone, there is less possibility of any kind of friction or nothing. Absolutely. So should we take like this, that in Indian foreign service, you have connection mostly with external affairs, mystery. So naturally the minister and the politician in that ministry will be important for you and also the PMO. Yeah. Is it like this? PMO also, but again, they would deal with your foreign secretary, foreign minister. Even there, it is not a direct kind of dealing with the PMO, it would be only joint secretary and above. For the rest, like as a director, as a deputy secretary, you don't have that kind of direct dealing with the PMO. Okay. When you come at the joint secretary level, yes, because you will go there for meetings, coordination meetings or the visit of the Prime Minister to a country, which is one of the most important kind of functions. Coming back a little to the early phase of the career, when the training begins, there of course, the initial training is together in Missouri with IS and IPS also. But then there is a separate institution for that in close to GNU Indian Foreign Service Training Center that is in Delhi. So what is the difference in this training and what happens all and how long is the training period? See, when the IFS probation is selected, I mean into the IFS, the training program lasts for two years, two or years. The first four or three months is in LBSNA in Missouri, where that training is for all, for all the services. They are trained on national policy, on everything connected with the nation, with development, with poverty, with anything to do with administration in the country. They are also given the essence of India's foreign policy. In the sense, it's not lessons or course, but people come to lecture them on foreign policy issues so that they understand it. It's only after the four months of foundational course that those who are not IAS go out to their respective training where they get that specific training for their service. Related to the service. Foreign Service probationers come to the Sushma Swaraj Foreign Service Institute in Delhi and they are there for about four to six months, where they are given in-depth training on foreign policy, on diplomacy, on all the issues that concern the world in which India has a role, a disarmament, you name it, climate change, food security, energy security, how India would deal with this. So they get people visiting kind of experts to give them lectures. There is also the military attachment. There is the Bharat Darshan. There is the district training where they are attached to a district and study how a district is managed by DC. This is the interesting information for the aspirants. Yes, so it's very comprehensive because when you represent India abroad, you have to be familiar with what is happening in the domestic scene also. Foreign policy is such a domestic, policy is a component also of foreign policy. To know about your country in detail from the grassroot lake. Yes, and even they do what is called hospitality training, where you are taught all the table manners, what kind of, how you should entertain, how do you represent India even in that aspect, the food and how do you set a table, how do you put all those cutlery and crockery which is used for what. It's an elite class of services that you have. Yes, but it is required because in this it is uniform across the world that every country's diplomat puts his best foot forward. This is very interesting information that mostly his parents might be thinking that the training happens only abroad or maybe in the external affairs ministry. After the foreign service, they come back to the ministry for about three, four months where they are attached to desks. After the training is completed in the foreign system, there is concept of posting where they will go, how that is decided and what role the foreign languages play in this one. The first posting is always in the direction of the language that you have been allotted. So once during your training period, you get a language allotment. This is allotment or there is any choice this candidates can make. You can give choice, but the ministry has the discretion to decide if everyone asks for French, what do you do? Everybody asks for Arabic, something like that. So they also have a kind of plan like how many they need in the various languages. So you're allotted Turkish language, you have every kind of language and then you are sent to that country. If you have taken French, it means that the candidates may have the choices of the language, but ultimate allocation will come from the ministry or they will try to accommodate you, but they also have a vision of what languages they need to further strengthen the efficacy or the efficiency of the foreign service. So if you've got French, the ministry can decide to post you either to Paris or to Brussels. So then if you get Mandarin, you go to Beijing, you get Russian, you go to Moscow like that. So Arabic, all the languages, most of them, now I don't know if they've added any more languages. When it comes to languages and choices there, is it that somebody who has been located a particular language, so he's posting or her posting will be mid to that area or it can be changed later on also? I know this is something which would mean specialization, right? Yes. No, it doesn't happen like that in the majority of the cases. After you've gone to France, you may be posted the next posting to Malaysia. And then you have to learn, fresh the new language. No, there it's optional. For in your interest, you learn the language. The government of course pays for the tuition like you hire a teacher and the teacher is not only for you, it is for many in the embassy who don't know the language and wish to learn just a working knowledge like then of course it is paid for. Is it like this that in initial period of the career when the training is over and initial postings are coming, candidates will be posted according to their language choice, but later on this is not a worry. No. When you grow with a seniority, you can be posted anywhere in the world. But some if they have excelled in their language like languages which are considered difficult like Mandarin, if you have excelled in that you could go for a second time posting or you could go back as head of mission one day to that country. That happens. A lot of Russian speaking and Chinese speaking have gone back to those countries on a second posting or Japanese. See, these are the languages, which are but French, many, no French. And there are many countries where you can use French. Many of the candidates who join they have preferred choice. They should go to develop countries to Europe, to America. So is there any choice anywhere? Or this is just a random system on that? What the ministry does is every time they issue the notice for the board where the Foreign Service postings are decided, they look at your background. Like where did you come from in your last posting? If you came back from Washington or Geneva or London, it is more likely that you will now get a not a developed country posting. If you are in the Foreign Service, you must experience every kind of posting, A, B, C, and there are the hard stations, postings to Afghanistan and many countries. So there is a balance. There is a balance that they try to keep that you will do a very good station, then you will do a middling station. Then you must do a very, very developing country, which is where the facilities are less. When it comes to hierarchy of posting, where from and what is the term used for the first initial ranks there and what is the hierarchy that goes to the top level? See, in the ministry, it is just like in other ministries of the other services. You will be an undersecretary, then you are a deputy secretary, then you are a director, then you are a joint secretary, additional secretary, secretary. And of course, foreign secretary is above all, that one post. When you are abroad, it is different. The junior most position can be like language attaché, then you come as third secretary, second secretary, first secretary, counselor when you are director, minister when you are joint secretary, and then of course, head of mission. This can be ambassador or high commissioner. Okay. Depending on the country. Yes. Then there are consulates that is in many countries, India does not have a mission only in the capital. They have what is called consulates in other important cities in that country. For example, like you have in America, you have Washington, but then you have a consulate in New York. You have a consulate in Houston, because the importance of those towns, either for economic reasons or large Indian origin community, many such factors. So you open missions there. Now there also the head of post. Now when it comes to the perks especially, what is the difference in the salary if they stay in India or they go outside India? When you are in India, your salary is according to the grade fixed for anybody in the government of India in ISIPS and all, it's the same. Right. When you go abroad, you are definitely given what is called foreign allowance in addition to your pay. That is additional. Because life abroad is different. You have to spend more that come in the currency of that country or it comes in the currency of that country or very often you are paid in dollars. But that is decided according to the cost in the country. Yes. The living costs are worked out very, very carefully by the team in the ministry that goes out periodically to countries and studies it very, very deeply. They go to supermarkets, they will look at all the prices of essential day to day commodities, use local transport, you know, everything. They will go and eat in a restaurant to see how it is. All the factors are taking medical cost of medicines. All that makes your life comfortable. Well researched and surveyed. Well researched. They come back and then they decide what is the foreign allowance that should be given to you. Apart from the foreign allowance, you are given an entertainment allowance, which is naturally fixed according for the third sector each one, second sector, little more. Okay, so there is entertainment allowance also. Yes, every month you are expected to spend this money not on yourself or entertaining your family or friends. You will entertain the people that you are in touch with in the local, among the local people, local government, the media, cultural organizations, think tanks, people who are of use to you in the discharge of your duties and in the interests of India. Do you have to submit report for that? Every month you submit to your ambassador. There is a register where you say this month I gave a lunch. Who are the guests? You will write out the guests and where did you do it at home? Or did you do it in a restaurant? If you do it in a restaurant, you have to produce the voucher. And the residence benefit, do you get there? Yes, we get fully furnished flats. Anyway, so one of the greatest advantages is when you're on transfer, when you're moving, you don't have to carry furniture. What about the conveyance? Conveyance over there, it's only, there'll be always a staff car. What is, apart from the ambassador's car, which is called the flag car. That is the only car that will bear the flag. There will always be, depending on the size of a mission, an additional vehicle, which is called a staff car, which you use for your official purposes. Otherwise, you buy your own car or you use public transport. You get allowances for that also, vehicle allowances? Not vehicle allowance, no. It's a general allowance, you have to manage it. In your foreign allowance, covers all that. Now, especially diplomatic passport for the country. What is that and what is special about that? Well, special is the red passport is across the world respected. That is only to Indian Foreign Service Officers or it can be for also that. No, it is given also to other officers from other services if they are going abroad on a posting or some special assignment. It could be for one month, two months or so, but officially. Or they are going part of a delegation from their respective ministries. Then the same formula, but in our service, everybody from once he joins the IFS gets the red passport. And for the other services, it is up to director level, white passport or the official. Okay. Joint secretary and above the red passport. So, what is special about red passport? Please explain a bit more of that. Well, as I said, it's respected all over the world and given the courtesies that under the Vienna Convention is written for red passport. When you land at the airport, you don't go through the normal immigration channel. There is a separate channel where it's always written for diplomats. So, it's a fast track. You go through that where they don't need to ask you, show your baggage. They should not. I mean, they don't. So, it's you just come out. This is a special privilege. Yes, and with the diplomatic passport, you get access to say the lounges and the airports. All these privileges. There are a lot of these perks. You become a VVIP, especially in that, right? You travel always in good airlines and once you reach a certain level, only in business class and all these airlines, you are, I mean, given all the respect across the border. Stay in also the area. In your service abroad, you always stay in the best of places. Wherever you go, you go on local tours anywhere. One major concern is about the spouse benefit and also the family. So, what benefit and the facilities are given to the children? The Ministry of External Affairs pays in full the education charges for two children, maximum of two. If you have more than that, then it's your responsibility to pay for that child. Travel is free, the same like the officer. And you get home leave once in your posting back to wherever you are in India and for 40 days, the usual leave period, where the whole family can travel. And then if you are single and go as a head of mission, you are allowed to designate somebody as your hostess, for which the government will pay. You take the person with you, it could be a sister, an aunt or somebody from your family, you know. They are only the family members, so it could be friends also. No, no, only the family. Maybe because of safety, security. Many reasons, yes. So, they are allowed to. They are allowed. What about the schooling and education of the children? That's why two children are free. When the government picks up the fees, you always have a panel of schools. Now that's the other interesting aspect of the service abroad, when you go abroad. There's always panels, you know, which the government, these are the schools, these are the hospitals, you know, like these are the packers and movers, which you can, because it's all been earlier access, which is good, which is within our India's economic strength. How much time one stays outside India and how much inside India? The normal pattern is two years at headquarters, three years abroad. There are some stations which are only two years because of security reasons in that country or unsafe conditions, two years only. The very few countries like that, where you are posted only for two years because they're considered hard stations. Other normal posting is for three years. And then you come back for two years again. There are occasions when from one posting, you are sent directly to another. This is also because of vacancies, you know, maybe at headquarters, at your level, there is not that vacancy. So they can send you six years is maximum, but then you have to come back. You mean to say in continuity, one can stay for six years? Yes. In another station, from station A. Then you stay back for two years in the country. Then you stay back in the headquarters two years. Headquarters is two years. Okay, then again, you can be back. Was it your mother's dream or also a kind of compulsion on you that you have to do it only or you had your own choice? There was no compulsion. Let me say that my mother's dream, I always, I mean, I adored her. So whatever she said, I felt was in my best interest. So I kind of just went in the flow of her dream without feeling compelled. That's the best part of it, right? And you enjoyed your career all through? Very much, all through. There may be like when I was going on my first posting to Brussels and when I boarded the Air India craft and I was sitting, suddenly it struck me that I'm going alone into the unknown. Never been abroad. Now I'm going into a mission as an officer to work. I don't know anybody there from before. So suddenly in the plane, I realized my God, what am I going into? And tears rolled down my eyes silently in the side. And then the stewardess saw it and asked me if I was, why I was crying. I told her like this, I'm going alone. And they were so sweet. They kind of pampered me after that saying, no, no, you're going to represent India. You should be happy. That was the only time that I felt suddenly, what am I getting in? But once you reached there, so what was all the mindset? It was so wonderful because everybody in the mission from top to bottom or let's say bottom to top kept a very loving eye on me, maybe because I was single and come out. Everybody was so kind that I never again looked back on that aspect. With your vast experience of the service, can you please tell us about the roles and responsibilities that Indian Foreign Service Officers play? The roles and responsibilities are so wide ranging and very, very varied I must say because when you are at headquarters, it is different, you are given a desk and you deal just with that. Say you are dealing with disarmament. So you deal with all the issues relating to disarmament. You are in the UN desk, you're dealing with issues related to what is happening in the UN, both in Geneva and all the UN related offices in New York, et cetera. Or you are in a territorial desk, what we call territorial desk in the ministry where you may be dealing with the Gulf Division. You're dealing with all the matters related to countries in the Gulf, framing the policy, assisting in framing the policy, how we deal with the Gulf as a whole and with individual countries. So when we are talking of headquarters, you are dealing with the policies of the government of India relating to all foreign policy matters. You are coordinating with other ministries like the economic ministries, with the ministries dealing with climate change, with the ministries dealing with energy, food, because these are important matters, food security, energy security, you talk about all this or our requirements of energy. You're also dealing with disarmament. You are dealing with people of Indian origin abroad. So how your policies should be framed to give them the help. You're dealing with passports and visas and consular matters, anything related to Indians living abroad, any problems they have, death, birth, marriage, all kinds of issues. So it's a very vast and compassing role from the headquarters, which all the officers play a major part. And dealing with the delegations, visits of BIPs, invert and outward going delegations, which takes up a lot of time and attention and detailing. And then you deal with all multilateral issues, all our relations with any multilateral organization, then with all the like Quad, BRICS, SEO, G20, all these organizations you are going to deal with. When you are posted abroad, you will be dealing, say with the part of the whole, like supposing you will be dealing with culture. You'll be dealing with commerce and economics, with political matters, defense, security. Multiple issues. Yes, multiple. Consular is a major part. You're dealing with issuing of passports, visas to the people there. You're dealing with all kinds of consular matters, which is very wide. You have to project India and India's role not just in the region, but on the international scenario. You have to take care of India's interests also. And we give aid also. I mean, not many are still knowing that India gives a lot of aid. India gives aid to countries that are developing. This is part of the South-South cooperation. India is now going in deeper into various regions of the world, not just neighborhood first, but the region beyond. We are going South, Sagar project. We are going Far East. We are going across Africa, America. We are engaging with the major powers of the world, like America, Japan, Russia, China. All this comes into the play. So when you're abroad, you have so many things to look at. Even if you're posted in a country that is, say, in Africa, even there you have to watch. What is that country doing with relation to China? What is China's role in Africa? What about our trade prospects? You know, India is so much today. The world is looking for rare earths, minerals for the semiconductor issue. As you know, it is one of the biggest issues. This is strategic economics, where you want lithium and you want uranium, you want cobalt, all these, which India doesn't have. So there is commercial exchange. Competition in the world for these, particularly after the COVID when it was realized that supply chains play a major role. So you have to diversify your supply chains. You cannot rely on just one country or one geographical region for your supply chain. And this is something the whole world woke up to during the COVID period. China trying to get their resources so they become self-reliant in certain extremely necessary inputs for the industry. So it is so wide, you are also in defense. We are now manufacturing weapons, small weapons. You find markets for them. You also look what would be the best that can augment India's defense. So, you know, and then you do civil aviation. So it is not limited to one or the other thing, but everything which can benefit. Connectivity is a major issue for us. What are the challenges, especially when you are, like we see the crisis related to Ukraine-Russia war. And in this situation, if you are posted there, so what kind of challenges will come? Challenges are when you are posted in countries where it is not exactly, what shall I say, a comfortable situation. These are challenges. You are posted in China. You are posted in Ukraine. You're posted in Russia. How do you handle this? How do you get the best kind of inputs into the policy of your country in dealing with these issues? Your contribution from abroad is a major contribution. What do you advise to the ministry as to how this problem should be dealt with? We had so many issues, like challenges or natural disasters. Yes, and especially when it comes to evacuation. Yes. India played a major role in evacuation from Ukraine earlier from- Even in the pandemic, COVID-19. It made the role that India played in which it helped other countries also. This is where the foreign service officers play very important. Very big role, which is unknown. Like they are not, they are nameless. They are just people. But you know that it is because of their efforts, we managed to get all the Indians back. You mean to say that there is not much of publicity like in IS and IPS, but the people play very silent role in Indian foreign service. They play a silent role and a very effective role. And I think that's the way it should be. This is the best way. We also supplied vaccines to more than 100 countries. Now, this is all part of diplomatic- This was a serious political discussion also in the country that you are sending to other countries when you are having scarcity. But we believe in this, that it's not only our development that we should look at, we should also look at the development of all countries because only then there will be peace, a lasting peace. Vasudev, you couldn't go. Yes. And I think that's a brilliant philosophy which has remained unchanged. You know, they often ask you what are the changes in India's foreign policy? There have been changes, yes. But you have to change as you go along. But the basic tenets of India's foreign policy has not changed. It's continuing. Pansheel was laid down by the founding fathers of our country when we gained independence. That continues. I mean, peaceful coexistence and help to all countries with no expectation of reciprocity. That is our spirit that you give when somebody else needs your help. So that principle continues. To be effective and efficient in the Indian foreign service, what kind of aptitude, attitude and the temperament should be there with officers? You must have the aptitude to meet people, engage in so much of social activity which you would normally not do when you're back home, even in headquarters. Because when you are out, there is a responsibility on you that you are representing your country. You're not you. You are subsumed under that. You are representing India. So on a particular day, if you have the national day celebration of a country, and on that day, coincidentally, there are three countries having their national days, you cannot say I will not, I'll go only for one, I will not. No, that choice is not yours. Yours is that I will go to all three. You mean to say in the country where you are post-it? Yes. If there are national days and there would be multiple countries program coming one after the other. So you have to present everywhere. Because you are the face of India. That is what I want to give the message, that when you're abroad, you're the face of India. So you should be a face that inspires people, instills confidence in them also that when you speak, you're not doing double speak. Even if you have to say no in diplomacy, there is a way to say no, that that person understands. Why you're saying no? I think this is very important and- Social and communication skills. Yes, and you must not have that, even a tinge of arrogance, you know? Because every country has its plus points. You cannot go out there thinking, I come from a civilization that is like that and ancient and this. No, what are you today? You see, that is your strength, inner strength. But you have to portray that today you're a country that is ready to mingle with the whole world, ready to help everybody and who wants development for all. And you must respect that country's culture, its traditions, its food. Even if you are not comfortable with it, that is a very important point. I'm not saying that you must eat the food they eat, which you may not subscribe to, that is not. But you know, sometimes you have a tendency to say in a very kind of maybe rude way, oh, I don't eat this all. I'm trying to tell you that should be a finesse in everything that you do. Even if it's when you are interacting with the people of the enemy countries, you still have to be told and good in behavior. And 30 years. And always remember that that's what they think Indians should be polite, 30 years, respectful, without in any way being a doormat. That confidence you should have. I would like to know especially the reasons why these parents should prefer to go for Indian foreign service in terms of their career and service to the nation. Well, because I think that with the kind of social media we have nowadays, so many things keep circulating which are not true, which are provocative, which are incendiary. So I feel that you must go and represent your country abroad and get the best of those countries for our country and give your best to that country. India needs it today. India needs not just very good, efficient and dedicated people inside India, but it needs outside also. That will, I'm sure in the long term, impact on India's image. Image can be damaged so easily. Again, because of the effect of social media. We are seeing that so many anti-national activities also take place. Even today, a consulate in America of ours has been attacked. So I have a feeling that the more you join the service and dedicate yourself that I will represent my country to the best of my ability and always get for India the best from every country. That itself is a great development. That is a great reason to join for service of the nation, but as a reward return from that career because everybody has some self-interest also in terms of career. Your reward is this opening up your mind to the whole world, the perspective, your whole perspective changes. Your children, you can get them, maybe India is not lacking in good education, but you know how we all want something from abroad. It is open to him and to his children, best of education. Best of job opportunities, not just in India. In India also you'll get even better job, but abroad. The whole world is yours to choose from. Secondly, you acquire some creature comforts, which when you come back to India help you in your retired life to live comfortably. You make a whole lot of friends across the world, which helps even when you're retired to talk to them about India. If they have any misgivings, whoa, you know what's happening. You talk to them and I'm telling you, it has an impact. So these are the many issues, you know. Under full exposure of the world and relationships. And that way I feel you become more tolerant of other people's way of life. Thank you very much, madam, for spending your valuable time. I am sure by watching you and listening to your experiences, many will decide to go for Indian Foreign Service. In the coming episodes, we'll be having discussion on geopolitics and many issues of India's foreign relations. Thank you. Don't forget to like, share and subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon to never miss an update.