 Yn fawr o'r gweithiwn, Maes nhw'r gweithio, ac maerol yn bwysig o'r gweithio na ddweud o赵an amser neu sydd yn gweithio'r gweithio ar y sefydliadau de emissionol ar yr ystyried cymdeithas. Yr ddechrau am ymgyrch, mae'n meddwl ar yr ystyried cymdeithio, ac wedi'u dod o fawr i gweithio i fynd y ddweud o'r cymdeithio ar yr etoedd, Mae'r gweithio'r cyfnod yr hynny'n gweithio'r cyfnod o'r cyd-caf mwyaf o'r ffordd yma, i'r gweithio'r gweithio ar gyfer gyflawn i'r gweithio a'r gweithio'r cyfnod. Rwy'n meddyliadau ar gyfer gweithio, ac i'r gweithio'r gweithio'r cyfnod hefyd. Pryddoedd y cwestiynau yn y gymbeithio cwmwynt yn ôl, byddwch chi'n credu bod y cwestiynau ar y desk, yn gweithio'r gweithio'r cyfnod ar gyfer gyflym, It's likely to be broadcast or visible at any point, so just be aware of that. The camera follows the microphone being switched on. So please, councillors and officers, please wait a couple of seconds before speaking to allow the camera to catch up and bring you into the spotlight. And anybody participating in the meeting? Hello, and please just showing the chat if you want to speak. Make sure that when you do speak, you have any other mobile devices byddwch i'r cyfle trwyddoch daith yn ddoch chi'r tud yn ddefnyddio'r gyflaen gwahanol ac yw'r celfoedd. Rwy'n meddwl am dechrau'n mythio, yn pågen i'r celfoedd yma rydych chi'n meddwl, ac rwy'n meddwl am Hause mewn cyfechyddiol. Rydych i'r celfoedd yn barn, roedd weithiau am yr adroddau cyflym bobl am y cyfoedd yma â'r cyffredin am gydag. o'r lefnod o'r cyfnod dweud. My name is Councillor Paper Halings, and I'm the chair and have my vice chair. Hello my name is Councillor Martin Kaan. I represent the Help and Implementation Park and I'm the vice chair. Thank you, and my other vice chair. Thank you, Councillor Jeff Hardy. I am the member for Portion Ward. Thank you and Councillor Paul Bay Park. Hello I'm Paul Bay Park, I'm district councillor for Milton and Waterbeath. I'm the Mayor for Waterbeath. I'm the first Minister for Library and Heritage. o'r llyfr o'r Milton i'r Waterbeach. Thank you and we don't have any other councillors. Councillor Sue Wellington standing in for councillor Cohn. Thank you very much. Are there any other members present online? All right? I don't think so. But I can confirm the meeting's quorum, even though we are a select group. Cwrwm is three members and I'll also invite officers who are with us and very, very happy to have with us for the first time. Bode Isan, who is with us in the chamber and who is our new head of environmental services. So it's wonderful to have you with us and if you'd like to introduce yourselves but also a couple of words as well, we're very excited to have you in. Thank you very much, Councillor Herings. It's a great pleasure for me to be finally here on the ground and I'm very much looking forward to working with the entire council and with the councils really looking to help further ensure that our services excel in the way we believe our services for the environment, for waste and for climate change. So thank you very much for the warm welcome. Thank you very much and we'd just like to know that you know fascinating CV in terms of your work experience as Albedo which is both in the UK and internationally. Both on waste but also on green energy investment and turning a whole area green, you know, working together with businesses and partnerships. So we're very, very excited to have you with us. Thank you very much. That's very good and also I think online do I have with us John Connor? Yes, I do. I just want to say who you are John. Lovely and good and heading up your team as well, Jane. Lovely. Thank you. Great to have you with us as well. And we have with us also, Soraya. Lovely to see you too, Soraya, and we've got a big issue on the table and the agenda, so it's great to have you with us around air quality. So that's fantastic. And Siobhan, we have you with us as well. Good afternoon. Thank you. And Rebecca and also have John Gibson. Is that right? Peter Gibson. Peter Gibson. Sorry. Peter. Oh, Peter from air quality. Peter. Hello. Thank you very much, Peter. Lovely to have both you and Soraya here, especially as we're going to be dealing with the air quality issues. That's fantastic. Good. Thank you everybody. And do we have any apologies? Yes, chair. We have apologies from Graham Cohn. And I'm happy to say that we have Sue Wellington substituted for Graham Cohn. And also, Graham will chamber in his apologies. Good. Thank you. And I know also that Councillor Peter Fane isn't with us, but we haven't heard anything from him so far. Okay. Thank you very much. And so members with that, we can go now into item number. Oh, hello. And I see that we've also just as we're starting the meeting. So Bridget, lovely to see you. If you'd like to introduce yourself as well. Lovely. And also lead cabinet member for climate and environment. So it's really, really good to have you with us, Bridget, during these meetings as well, which is great. So on to declarations of interest. Do any members have any interest to declare on the items of the agenda with us? Councillor Cohn. We're discussing the solar together scheme. I've been a client of the scheme. Thank you very much. We'll be interested in your experience on that. We're very good. Good. And now we'll turn to item number three, which are minutes of the previous meeting, which on page one of our agenda pack. Do I have any comments on the minutes? Yes. Just a correction on number eight. Item eight. We talked about, I mentioned sulfur hexafluoride. And it was a minute of this fluoride. Sulfur hexafluoride, the strongest greenhouse gas, 29,000 times stronger than carbon dioxide. We better get used to spelling that one. Thank you. And that's well noted. Thank you very much, Paul. And now we go to the substantive items on the agenda. And we're starting agenda item four, which are plans for ooze, fen and fen-draton nature reserves. And we have Hannah Phillips with us, the RSPB area manager. Hello, Hannah. It's lovely to have you there with us. And this is a really important item members as we've just seen the preferred options for the local plan. Go out with the green infrastructure study as part of that. We're often seen as a little bit of the Cinderella. Of the greater Cambridge area in terms of biodiversity environment, designated areas. But we all know that there are some really, really key fragments and areas that are very precious to all of us and that we're keen on making more visible and known and of more value and also working with partners to increase those areas and to increase their biodiversity, which is why we're fascinated to hear about what's been happening with ooze, fen, Hannah. So please go ahead. Yes, we can now, Hannah, thank you. Hannah, just sorry, sorry. And I don't, because we don't want to miss any of this. We've just got a bit of a problem with live streaming. So if you just hold on a minute, we're just going to try and reset it and then we'll pick up. And then we really want, do want to know that in South Cams we're part of one of these restored landscapes that would be the biggest in Europe. That really turns things on its head. Can you, you've just stopped presenting for a moment. Hannah, can you take down the shared screen? Thanks for your patience, Hannah. We're just sorting it. No. Did you hear, can I just ask you to, Hannah, did you hear the song of the reed on Radio 4? Can you speak just now as you were testing this? Hopefully that's worth it. Can you try again, Hannah? Just to, yes, we're working now. So that's. Oh, brilliant. I can actually hear an echo, but let's carry on. We can't hear the echo, so that's fine. If you just want to take us to that first slide, is that okay? Yes. Do you want me to start from the beginning? The next slide, yeah. To UCFEN. Yeah. There we go. Yes. There we go. This is our project with Hansen, which is creating RSPB UCFEN. It's currently 300 hectares in size. And when it's complete, it'll be 700 hectares in size, making it the biggest restoration of its type in Europe and containing Britain's biggest reed bed. And this map here is the progress to date with the restoration. So apologies that the numbers on the cells are quite small, but you can see areas one through to nine have been handed over already to the RSPB and a part of the Nature Reserve. And then we've got cells 10 through to 16, which are due to be transferred over following the completion of quarrying between now and about 2031. So as well as being really important in a local context, this site will be one of the most important wetlands in a UK context as well, and is certainly one of the biggest projects of its size and scope. And as well as being really important for nature, it's also providing great opportunities for people to come and connect with nature. And up at the earwth end, we've recently opened a new carpark, so there's hopefully lots of ways for people to come and access and enjoy the reserve. For those of you who have not been to the site, hopefully the video is playing and hopefully this will give you a bit of an idea of the scale of the site. It's already delivering for the key species that were targeted, like bitons, marsh harriers, and we also have a pair of common cranes breeding on the site, which is brilliant as that species continues to make its comeback across the fence. And inland wetlands sites are particularly important in a national context as we see the impacts of rising sea levels on wetlands sites around the coast. So we don't see the video anymore, it's not? That's fine, it should have finished. Excellent. So thinking about who's fun and where there might be opportunities, obviously we know that the council are aspiring to achieve 20% biodiversity net gain. The RSPB are investigating registering the most recently restored 80 hectares as a potential net gain site, and we have approximately 300 hectares more to restore and being managed by the RSPB between now and 2031. And within the minerals plan there is also the potential for a further 100 hectare extension to the site as well. And I think with usefen, with net gain, we're obviously still waiting to see what detail comes through with the legislation. But we really want to see biodiversity net gain delivering really high quality habitats for nature. And I think with a site like usefen, we can really demonstrate what is possible to achieve and with the potential for delivery of more habitat and with net gain as a potential funding source to help secure that habitat and also secure ongoing management of that habitat. So I've spoken a bit today already about habitat creation and improvement, but I thought it's really also important to acknowledge how important nature is for people and communities too. So this slide shows some statistics from a recent RSPB commission report, which was looking into people's attitudes towards nature during the coronavirus crisis in England. And the report really showed a lot of things that we know to be true, that people really value the importance of nature and access to green space. So the report found that 89% of people agreed that increasing the amount of nature-rich green space would improve health, well-being and happiness. And when you consider that Cambridgeshire has one of the lowest proportions of habitat for nature in the UK, these results are particularly brought into focus. As well as the importance of nature for people, the report also highlighted some of the large inequities that we see in how people are able to access nature with poorer households being over three times more likely to have absolutely no outdoor green space where they live. So this is one of the maps from the Greater Cambridgeshire Green Infrastructure Opportunity Mapping Project, and you can see up here we've got Ewsfen and Fenbrate Lakes. So hopefully some really nice overlap with some of the opportunities from that project with the most relevant layers being biodiversity, landscape, water and recreation. So hopefully there is good overlap here with strategic opportunities for delivering the green infrastructure needs of the local authority. And both Fenbrate and Lakes Anewsfen sit within that great Ewsfenland arc identified priority area as well. And I particularly like this quote which was published as part of the report, and I promise it wasn't RSPB that submitted this, so it's always nice when somebody else has something nice about your nature reserves. So our wetlands, whether rivers, lakes or fends, these define our sense of place, our relationship with wildlife and our vulnerability to climate change. They are the biggest magnet in Cambridgeshire from punting along the backs in Cambridge to Fenbrate Lakes or Falmer. And yes, I couldn't agree more. So we know that we want to see an increase in the amount of nature which green space, and we also want to improve access to existing green space. So this is Fenbrate and Lakes, it's another ex-mineral site that's been returned to nature and it is the only RSPB nature reserve in the UK to have its own guided busway stop, which I always find particularly exciting and proud of, and it's also really well served by lots of public access routes. So here we're developing plans to improve the site for visitors and improve the facilities that we have on offer there. And we know that green space in the area is under increasing pressure. Sites are busy and they are set to get more busy with the scale of development and housing plans. So improving facilities here will really help contribute, we believe, to that strategic need and also help to take the pressure off some of our more sensitive sites, particularly in the county. So we estimate that the site could be capable of supporting upwards of 80,000 visits per year but at the moment the facilities are extremely limited and the site really isn't reaching its potential. So what do we need to do to improve the green space offer at Fenbrate and Lakes? Well, first we want to improve the access. For any of you that have visited the site, you'll know that if you're driving by car you actually have to cross the guided busway to get into the car park, which is not ideal. So ideally we'd like to relocate the car park and increase its capacity. We'd also need to improve the access road and bridge so that it's suitable for supporting the number of visits that the site is potentially capable of. And to encourage green amines of transport we're already well-served by the existing busway and the accompanying cycle route but we would like to explore whether we can make a link, linked up cycle route between Fenbrate and Lakes and Lutfen to improve the connectivity between those two sites. And all the infrastructure works will need to be supported by a flood risk assessment. The site sits within the flood plain and the site is floods regularly in winter. So for example it's probable that land raising might be required in some areas to mitigate for flooding and to ensure that any facilities we put in place are resilient for that flooding. But we also want to improve the experience for people that visit the site and really help improve access to nature. For example, through things like wild play, active experiences like biking, kayaking and maybe even potentially swimming. Exactly what will be delivered will be informed by development work and consultation but hopefully these images help to conjure up the art of the possible. And you know we'd also like to hear from you if you have any ideas for what you would like these sites to particularly deliver. So we've already made a pretty good start on the development work using some internal staff resource but it is going to be the case that external investment will be needed to help realise the potential of the reserve. So these are some figures that we submitted as part of a section 106 request for contributions from the north store development given how closely located Fenderake Lakes is to that development and given that we expect a visitor uplift as a result of that development. So these figures are very provisional as we need to complete development work to understand and determine the scope of any infrastructure needed but hopefully it will give you a bit of an idea of the scale of investment that's likely to be necessary. Before I finish I also wanted to briefly talk about Falmyr which is another RSVB site that we have in the south of the county and many of you will be very aware of the issues that are currently affecting our chalk streams and Falmyr site's special scientific interest is particularly affected. The site is supplied by water from chalk springs and the river shed runs through the site. Lack of water supply to the wetland can cause significant issues as you can see in this picture. So this is a reed bed but it doesn't actually have any water in it apart from that tiny pool in the middle there that you can just about see and it is only thanks to pumping from the environment aid into the site has not completely dried out in recent years. So over the next few years we have plans to undertake work to improve our ability to store and move water around the site as well as supporting advocacy efforts to address those underlying issues of unsustainable water use and abstraction within the catchment and we are particularly grateful to the council for your leadership on this particular issue. So we're hoping to apply for pre-planning soon to enable us to undertake the works on site to improve the resilience of the site. This will include installing some additional water control structures alongside creation of new wet features and deepening some of the channels that we already have on site and this is all with the aim of improving how we can store and move water around the site which should help the site cope better with some of the water shortages that we have seen although it's important that alongside that mitigation work we continue with measures to address the underlying cause. I also briefly wanted to mention some of the work that we're doing outside of our nature reserves so we are very lucky to have our own arable farm at Napwell in Cambridgeshire. Hope Farm is used to demonstrate wildlife friendly farming techniques in a productive farm setting so as well as producing food and benefiting nature it's used as a pilot site for RSPB research for example at the moment we have a new agroforestry trial which has begun on site this year growing trees alongside arable crops and outside of our nature reserves we also work very closely with landowners to provide advice on nature friendly farming. We have a particular focus on turtle doves in the county turtle doves has the unfortunate claim of being the fastest declining bird in the UK but we do have remaining core populations in the local area and we're working with farmers in an effort to boost their numbers. This includes providing supplementary seed and advice about management and just this year there's been a nationwide survey of turtle doves this spring which will hopefully help in future for us to further and target our efforts and I'm going to leave it there I think but thank you very much and that's my contact details there it's been a pleasure to talk to you about our work today. Thank you so much Hannah that's that's fantastic and you know as you said the first biodiversity opportunity mapping that was done you know for the for the council confirmed the fact that we are one of the lowest areas in the country or the highest in terms of deficit of land managed for wildlife that then is accessible to people and so these initiatives are huge and and I had no idea that you know that the eventual size of the newspen and you know I'm that importance that's huge and and it's it is good to hear about things like the section 106 you know arrangements they are starting to do and we can see how that how that can support but I'd like to throw open to any questions now I have a couple but anybody from the committee yes hello hello Hannah and this is my patch I'm the district councillor for Fenderaton and Swavesy and I haven't heard of any of these things either and I would very strongly suggest that cooperation and support from my two parish councils would be really good idea I met Chris and Tim for the first time last week and we talked about byways but I think there is so much that the villagers would love to get involved with and I think their support would be very helpful towards the whole project and particularly I'm concerned around the car park the access road even in my four by four is a bit yes and I think we really could work much more cooperatively together especially as I've got planings and a machine to make my byways work and that would do a wonderful job on your access road love this too that's absolutely what we you know what we need to hear which is how we've seriously worked together and and this is the one of the things we were talking about with with Siobhan and Rebecca is the fact that we're not shouting out more about what we have and when we don't shout about it more as I said with a Cinderella in the guider area so where things can go because there's not a lot there so you're not going to lose very much over there actually it's about shouting about what we need and what we do have so and I because I'm at the other end of the guided busway I go there a lot so I love this and know about it but um that's fantastic Hannah do you want to come back on that yeah no that's just fantastic to hear and I also you know we are at the very early days of scoping particularly that the work at Fenderaton and we we want to create something that the local community want we don't want to create something we don't want to come up with something in isolation and impose it we want it to be co-created and we want to deliver what the local community really want from from their green space so yeah we're really keen to to work to work with you and to and to you know really do that community consultation well come back I think it would be useful if we um sent emails to each other and and set that up um and I've got parish council meetings in the next couple of weeks up which I will raise it and ensure that um we'll form some sort of useful group to help sway of CM Fenderaton don't talk to each other an awful lot you understand so it might have to be two separate meetings that's wonderful thank you good and I think also learning from the Fends biosphere that we're you know as a council we're championing that with other councils and what and I think this is really important to what you're saying is if communities hear about it in the wrong way they can get very protective and when they hear about carparks it's immediately the wrong assumption you know and when you talk about access to nature and then you're talking about a carpark and so I think getting in these really early relationships and conversations is critical um that will be good um do any of us see one other thought and that is that there are one or two farmers around there that it would be well worth me introducing you to because again they play a significant role um particularly as one has quite a significant first mature yeah that would be really useful and I think I think particularly fathers that are adjacent to existing um nature reserves they I mean there are there are opportunities for all fathers to contribute but but strategically those those are of particular interest um because you know you they've got a real opportunity to complement what's being delivered um on the on-site good and Captain Jeff Harbour yes thank you chair I'd just be really quite interested to know um your experiences of um using biodiversity net gain as a sort of funding stream to enable some of these projects and that could be you know a system that would be obviously could be copied in other parts of South Camarchia how have you found that in terms of you know is that a functioning market how would you make contact with people who might want to acquire sort of credit if you like um thank you yeah it's something that RSPB are at the very early stages of um of looking at as a means of funding so there are there are examples where we've done it in other counties but that's tended to be using um section 106 for example so there's an example in Devon where section 106 contributions have been used to create habitat for cell buntings and that's been a strategic approach with the council there but in terms of um yeah the next steps we're we're waiting to see what the legislation does and we're waiting to sort of determine our own organisational position a little bit on on on how we sort of tread carefully and engage with biodiversity net gain but I think you know the absolute priority for us is that is that you know net gain is coming and we want to make sure that it delivers really high quality nature rich habitats because there is an opportunity to do it well and there's also an opportunity to do it less well and we want to see it really delivering the gains that we need for nature so I think that's an area where we could thanks Jeff for that really good question because I think that's an area where we could look at some good partnerships and some learning perhaps formally you know as a partnership and I'm looking at um Bridget as well this is something that we we could think about is um we also want to as you saw our aspiration is not 10% biodiversity net gain which is probably going to come through the legislation but to set 20% most people ecologists have said that 10% is within the margin of error on a on the development so you might get it might not be wouldn't really doesn't really make much difference whereas 20% is quite challenging and therefore is worth doing obviously what we're seeing in terms of the mitigation hierarchy is that first of all it's not doing any harm that's that's what you try and do first of all and then you try and enhance the biodiversity onsite and then if you can't you look at something offsite now all of the mapping that's been done for our local plan is identifying the opportunity areas for where that would happen and what I would like for our committee to recommend and it's lovely to have Jane Green and John Connell on the call is that we in that mapping we look at south cams and there are this my question is about the nature recovery network for Cambridge doesn't highlight these opportunity areas that the wider map does so the wider map focuses on other opportunity areas which are more around sort of the mogog areas down on that side you know rather than this so not all maps have this opportunity area that you showed on your map which is the use fen and even the the area between the use fen and the with fen so those are not identified on the maps so by shouting about it more by getting more information about it more value you know that these are potential areas for any trial biodiversity net gain offsite biodiversity net gain that we might be be looking at and I was thinking of one of the ways also that we could get more awareness out and I was talking with Siobhan Mellon officers on the on the call in the meeting but we've got in the build-up to cop 26 there are a series of UK wide and worldwide events and one of those is the great big green week and I wonder whether in the great big green week we shout about some of our green areas you know and if there's a south cams magazine or in the newsletter or whatever we get information out to parish councils about the areas that we have in you know in south cambridge and but I don't know if that kind of format where we might see about some kind of trialling of something with you and but I'd leave out of the planners as well but rather than being reactive to this we've done all the commissioned all the evidence can we do something together and I say this because I have read the RSV's latest position on biodiversity net gain which is quite critical and so I understand that so can we learn together you know about doing some of this? Yeah absolutely and I think if you know as a next step perhaps we could put you in touch with um we could get a few people together with our with our net gain experts to think about what's possible. Councillor Khan. Yeah um thank you very much indeed for the presentation and also for inviting me to the visit earlier on in the year which was very much enjoyed seeing what you're doing on the ground. This is obviously part of uh I hope you will be part of the larger biosphere reserve proposal and I hope it will be a quite a key area within that. It's also part of the the use valley area which covers into adjoining districts in Huntington Jo in particular and in Bedfordshire and so I think seeing it as part of a larger thing um in particular with your label of being the largest site in Europe um gives it greater warmth and makes it easier to get funding and I think we do need to think about how we present this um it may be seen as unimportant but it is important in terms of giving it the sort of support that it needs uh and I hope we can negotiate and discuss with the joining authorities and other bodies to try and to give us a bigger a bigger uh form. I was also thinking in terms of I mean I I hope we can get opportunities through uh biosphere net gain and section 106. I think there's real could be real opportunities there at the moment. The whole planning system is up in the air so we'll see how it goes but hopefully we must keep up that in mind. Um but but uh the rather have you looked also at other habitats? I mean obviously the this is a lowland habitat uh fen habitats are important but we've got a lot of we have got although not large in air we've got some interesting woodlands particular including one after all which is the RSPB area the large you have a you have an interesting woodland um and there are other woods in uh in the Ambray Gays along the eastern plains but also actually on the Essex borderlands there's some very interesting woods along the border with Essex and Suffolk there which um all of which are sort of rather broken and would there will be opportunities for making larger habitats are generally better a lot of the units uh opportunities increasing. Have you got aspirations in that sphere or is it simply a matter of resources um I would also comment I understand that Hope Farm is mainly used for education of farm advisors um I had a friend of mine who came and visited Hope Farm about six years ago and stayed with us um he was a farm advisor in Wales um so I understand she was saying that it's mainly for specialist reasons um but do you see any opportunities for a wider wider or is it just a wider relation or is it too difficult? Yeah that was that was woodland woodlands and Hope Farm yes yeah I mean if you ask if you ask any nature and conservation manager in the area they'll always tell you that they want more um we do we do have a particular focus with RSPB on those on on those wetland creation sites but we also you know we are supportive of increasing tree cover particularly um you know in a managed way that puts the right tree in the right place and I think one in relation to woodlands I think I think one really interesting habitat for us going forward where we haven't done as much work on what we might like in future would be wet woodland um because with wet woodland um I think there are particular opportunities when you look at things like flood storage as well so um and and we know that uh quite a lot of the wet woodland in the lowlands has been lost um there are opportunities around river restoration with river on woodland and wet woodland so um I think we may not as an organisation acquire any new woodland site specifically but I think there are certainly opportunities particularly with wetland wet woodland creation uh within the area because there are those um there are opportunities to do that alongside some of the things we know we need around um flood storage as well um and and then in relation to hope farm um yeah it is it is there are bits in the farm that are publicly accessible there are um there are footpaths that people can go around um it's really it was conceived by the RSPB as um as a site where um we you know we were doing a lot of advocacy with um with progressive farmers around nature friendly farming but we really wanted to sort of test and trial things as well so so it is a pilot site um in the main but um we we like to use it as a demonstration site so um if there are ever opportunities um for people to come and visit or they want to come and see then then yeah yeah the door is open to do that. Good and and finally can I just thinking you know on Councillor Llynton's point about meeting up with the the parish council I'm just thinking about the north styr town council if you're saying that you're kind of in those early days of putting together that section 106 application have you had any contact with the north styr they're very new they've just started two weeks ago the north styr town council. No no we haven't so so so we we haven't heard much so so we put in the section 106 request last um last summer um and we haven't we haven't heard any follow-up from that although I believe they were supposed to be a meeting that that ended up being postponed but um yeah that that is a good point we could um we'd be it'd be useful to make links because they are they are going to be just on our doorstep so yeah good good good there's Jane hello Jane do you want to say anything oh mute sorry apologies I was just going to say we'll follow up on the point you made about section 106 at north styr for you um probably in relation to phase three I think possibly which is going to be yeah so it's coming to planning committees it's still it's still with us for consideration it's looking to go come to planning committee I think in about october time which is probably why you haven't heard um much yet of late but I will make sure that our my colleagues in um you froze sorry you just froze on us with your colleagues in Jane colleagues in sorry colleagues in the strategic sites team to make sure that they do keep you in the loop because it's going to planning committee in october good and that's it's always really good to have some conversations with with the local people as well the local ward members who would be supportive of whatever the section 106 arrangements are going to be council wellington I wonder if we could have a copy of the slides please because I couldn't quite see where I lived yes I'm sure the slides will that's fine Hannah we can make the slides available yes of course just let me know where to send them yes so have you been in touch with Patrick I think yes so if with Patrick Adams I think you've been in touch with from democratic services so if you could send those it'd be fantastic thank you very much for your time again Hannah and we're looking forward to to doing more about this making more of a shout about this good lovely thanks so much thank you bye and so members we go to agenda item five which is the green home grants local authority delivery scheme update um and Siobhan hello thank you thank you yes so um this update is I'll just find it on my screen there we are um the purpose of this report is to provide an update on the delivery of the home of home energy improvement measures to properties in south camershire through the government's green home grant local authority delivery scheme I won't go through all the details on the report that has been circulated to members but I will say that this is obviously important in terms of our our climate providing heat and power for the 67 000 homes in south camershire accounts for about 20% of our carbon footprint and so we have got some actions in our zero carbon plan around this and the the work through the green homes grant lad scheme is um is part of this so the since august the UK government has launched um are actually a whole stream of of different schemes um mainly under this green homes grant label so you will probably remember that actually the thrust of this to begin with was consumer direct vouchers and as an authority we um did what we could through social media to um make sure that our residents got the message about that and applied for those vouchers they were available for households regardless of income unfortunately that scheme was withdrawn uh well before its planned end and well before the um the the intended budget was spent however the local authority delivery part of the green homes grant has uh the government has pushed ahead and actually in in fact expanded this and we as a council are um doing doing what we can to make the most of these opportunities that are that are coming through um as as we have historically we're working through the temperature energy partnership which is uh um consists of all of the chemical local authorities was actually set up um uh for to deal with the green deal opportunities um under the coalition government and so we have a memorandum of understanding with with our partner with our neighbouring authorities and so the first of these green homes grants lad scheme local authority delivery scheme opportunities phase one we um were part of a consortium bid led by Cambridge city council um for funding under that that uh that was successful and uh if I just look at my figures here so we um it I can't give exact figures because they were also combined in a came in a a crosscamerture bid without that detail um but it was approximately 500 000 plans for park homes in south camerture and we chose park homes on the advice of installers um because with a very short delivery window park homes allowed us to target the households that were eligible so in order to be eligible households needed to have an annual netting um annual gross income of below 30 000 pounds and to uh live in a property that was d e f or g under the e p c rating so park home sites are one of the few opportunities where you have several of these properties close by and good communication between uh between neighbours and so for a um very short delivery uh window they they they seemed really good um now there were a number of delays to delivery of that scheme and um uh in in in the initial stages and also this scheme prior to that was extended this meant that installers right across the country were under huge pressure and we ended up in a situation whereby we didn't have um an installer available to deliver that the i i won't go into the complications around that i'll just cut to the current situation which is that there have been changes in the um in the standards the the publicly available standard to the past um 2035 and that means that there is an ongoing doubt as to whether this can be can can still be delivered uh we are continuing to explore this if we can't deliver the fund um deliver as anticipated to the park homes we will look at other possibilities in terms of other kind of households under that that so that is the the first scheme the second scheme different type of delivery mechanism that is being managed by the greater southeast energy hub and eon are delivering that and we are meeting weekly with them and um uh it we're in the process of identifying houses to be delivered under lads two we have an allocation from the government of 430 000 pounds which um we'll deliver between 43 and 86 properties depending on whether they are owner occupied in which case there is 10 000 pounds per property or rented in which case there's 5000 pounds per property at the moment it looks likely that those uh that that allocation that we will be able to use that for our council homes um but the other thing that the other areas we're looking into are um houses that we have under our ermond street housing scheme and also properties that are um under our private lease holder scheme the shy home scheme um so there are various possibilities we're looking into um for delivery of of lads two which is due to be delivered by the end of march um next year and then the third scheme we have um been again part of a consortium bid led by Cambridge city council and we are um looking to do work on approximately 80 homes through that scheme and uh uh we're we're we're waiting to hear from the government we should hear fairly shortly whether that bid has been successful um we will be looking at uh at how to identify privately owned housing um principally for for the lads three um three delivery lads three will include some funding for um extra officer time but uh meanwhile we also have um a new project officer starting um at the beginning of november and that person will will be looking um will be looking to get that person working on this also so that is a quick run through of uh the green homes grant local authority's delivery scheme and our um participation in it are there any questions or happy to have to take any questions i have one she won't see anybody has this um so i suppose the concern is i mean one this is great we're going in through cambridge uh you know energy partnership um but if i'm just rapidly adding these up so you know we're looking at maybe around sort of 240 250 homes total um that could come out for our homes in south cambridge uh that are council owned or rented homes um out of a total of how many would you say that need retrofitting or some kind of you know insulation work i don't have a figure of that but it'll be it'll be many many thousands for sure yeah um and so we're we're kind of what i'm thinking is we're dipping our toe into the water with these aren't we with a huge amount of resources and effort for a few houses i'm just wondering you know what do you think about it as doing this because it's there's going to be important lessons learned about this or um what what value i do you know we can then scale out i'm just thinking the scaling of that will obviously be dependent on the the grants that the government's giving out but is it just because we've got a tiny percentage of the overall grant or the grants themselves that come from grant from government are still really really quite small you know in terms of scale um and how do we best use our resources that we've got staff working really well on this but these are these are really tiny numbers in the end don't they yeah i i think it is a question of um rolling it out and expanding it i mean the um uh installer capacity is is is one of the issues i mean our approach has been to um to to put in uh bits for the lad one and the lad three scheme which are um the the the maximum that we think can be delivered um and actually the lad two there was that at the allocation was actually made by by government um this the our we don't know what will happen in the future but i think there's a reasonable likelihood that um funding will continue to be made available so i'm sure i'm absolutely sure now with cop 26 coming up and our you know the renewed government targets around climate change this whole issue around heating in homes will have to be you know be addressed and there will be bigger grants coming out so i'm just wondering as we go into these is this enabling us to be able to are we running ragged trying to get these full numbers of rights or will this give us the ability to say we've done that we can go for the bigger you know once the bigger grants come online we're able to go for them do you know what i mean it's just and that's so then the capacity do we have for the first lad one do we have capacity in house to to already know from our housing audit work but Peter Matt that Peter's believing in that um you know which houses would be can we identify them already or we just don't have capacity to identify alternative houses for that lad one scheme if we can't use the park homes you're saying we will then identify you know can we have do we know can we know already you know which ones they are or actually that's a huge piece of work because we're still doing the audit yes the the the lad the lad one one of the things that has sort of amused by you're talking of this running ragged one of the things i think that's made us feel a bit ragged is that every one of these schemes and there've been four because one has been one a and one b have rather different criteria and parameters so the the one b scheme is is is not one that the council housing i believe can be um can can be done under um so we are looking to um private sector homes for that yeah yeah um and in terms of um of identifying them we can identify um the properties that um need work from uh the energy performance certificate register um it what is much more difficult is to identify the the properties which also have households which are who are eligible by virtue of their income um and willing to have it done so it's a it's a it's a marketing and promotion job basically uh which we um are really waiting to to find out whether the park homes um is eliminated before addressing um how we would go about doing that doing that i was going to comment that this is tying in with the with rental in some of the rental home but i think it's going to be one of the most important targets for this because the government's increasing the uh requirements for people to be able to lend that property so i'll have to be c grade or or above from 2075 or 2028 for existing tenants so it's going to be quite a requirement for for landlords and uh i would have thought there is opportunity to to bring this attention to landlords who are considering that i myself let four homes three of which are are d so they i would have to spend some money on it or resort resort the problem and it's something that's worrying me so if it's worrying me it's concerning other other landlords and none of them are in this area so i won't be affected um but the but but it is an issue and a lot sort of a lot of private rented property is older property which therefore doesn't meet standards often not some of it not a solid wall um needing quite significant investment i mean one of the hardbacks at the moment has been the limit of 2500 i think in the past about the maximum that the landlord can spend i think that's going to clearly going to have to go up and that may be much more this sort of these measures within the scope when you may find but but there will be need i think to publicise that and make sure that landlords are aware and make sure that basically to market that as an opportunity and maybe that's where when we decided to be the one council that joined that east of england energy scheme was looking at how you how you train up um you know local companies that are doing the retrofitting as well you know perhaps in line with that because we're still waiting for that to happen over the next year aren't we so when that happens perhaps it's a way of then you know making that available to to to landlord's classic problem isn't it without a long term scale it's difficult to get the the investment in it in the supply suppliers and there's been stopped start a lot in these sort of measures um so i think you know if one of the measures to go to higher government will be the plan get to the long term program isn't it with a consistent consistent demand so you can you can plan for it so what what i take away from this Siobhan is if we could look at we've talked about in our business plan about being the one one stop for businesses about greening their business but if we look at this one stop for landlords in terms of business you know so enabling them to know what's coming down the line when we do have the information from the learning that we're doing around those properties you know together with the training of those retrofitting companies um that's something that perhaps we can provide you know in the longer term to to the landlords meanwhile i want to notice you've got somebody else coming on board that can help with this which is great so you've got some extra capacity coming in and i do think it's can we have a perhaps when somebody does come in but perhaps a plan about you know what are we wanting out of this in terms of scale what can we manage and therefore you know what's the capacity we need and then when the new person who's going to help us with looking at grants and funding we can also then know what they're trying to look for because as you say i think there's going to be an avalanche of different funding schemes coming out and we need to give them some direction as well as they're looking at so if perhaps we could sort of say okay what's our scale going to be with the housing order that's happening how many do we think you know we we need to do what how can you identify categorize them and what kind of you know funding do we need for that because i wouldn't be able to say this month how much do we need as a council actually to do it for all our properties how much do we need i don't we know we have a figure but if we could get that the person that's coming in and work with them to actually for our action plan have that a little bit of sort of sketched out so that when the person is looking for funding you know we know what we're looking for as well yeah we completely agree with the need to do that and yeah we've had conversations along formula lines have you should have thought about you know it's just important that the way that the funding has been rolled out is that you know it's been a bit of an avalanche and a bit of a domino effect um but now we know that this is sort of the way that things are going to pan out we've got an opportunity as you say to um do that bit of preparation work so we're ready going forward i think great thank you very much that rebecca that's really good and thank you for giving us that that update it's really clear insight Siobhan brilliant you've got such a way of summarizing it's fantastic so thank you very much we go to item number six which is the air quality update and that's Soraya you're presenting the air quality Peter as well there hi good afternoon hello this is from the delay right well we are providing the committee with three reports which are contained within the agenda firstly there's the air quality screening assessment this was submitted to deaf breath in june 2021 and details the air quality data capturing the subchemistry in 2020 this will be uploaded onto the council's website once it's confirmed by deaf breath that the report findings and recommendations have been accepted secondly we're providing an updated air quality strategy which details the council's commitment to air policy the strategy has free focuses one being the future growth and development and this takes into account the predicted growth of the area two the monitoring network with three engagement with existing communities thirdly and finally we'll provide a report following members concerns on traffic near school in Harston the report was undertaken utilising trial technology where air quality was monitored for six months similar to this are currently taking place using this technology in north stowe and cambourne which coincided with clean air day this year all of these reports will be made available on the council's website and a full discussion amongst the group we're happy to answer any questions good wonderful well this as you rightly know this is an area of you know keen interest of the of the council and perhaps as we've sort of driven ahead with other issues within the zero carbon and the double nature strategy we've had less of an eye on this but this is absolutely you know central to everything we we think we need to be looking at as well so thank you very much and thank you for all of the the reports that we've got in our agenda pack so first of all i'll open out to any questions councillors wellington thank you very much for this report i find it very interesting particularly as my village is quite concerned by the increase in traffic which is using swavesy and fendradon as a rat run from north stowe instead of going up to the A14 and are very concerned that the growth in traffic that way added to a increase in lorry traffic from a mick george refusite which and i wonder whether it's possible for parish councils to hire or buy an air quality machine as described and whether it or whether it has to be operated by yourselves in order to be valid good question just just to answer that query if that's okay sorry sir are you go no no i insist you go thank you very much for your question that is a very good question and i'm very pleased to say that as a result of the actions we have undertaken under our equality strategy we have now procured portable monitors they're called zephyrs they run on solar energy and they can be mounted on a lampost easily that will enable the council to actually undertake short studies in areas of concerns such as the one you just mentioned and that will be an indication for us to consider equality and whether there is a need for long-term monitoring and if there is an immediate issue to be addressed so we have now that capacity and we are hoping to receive areas of concern such as the ones you just mentioned from members from the public so we will put together a priority list and we can actually commit to short studies minimum of six months depending on what we see with the real-time data I'll get on the list yes Councillor Paul Verpack yeah thank you very much for this report i appreciate there's a great deal of work gone into this i've got a comment particularly on the air quality strategy so i read through i read through this a couple of times and it wasn't entirely clear what the objectives are for air quality within south camps there's a lot of discussion about improving air quality but i wasn't sure maybe this is a question for the council and members is you know what do we want to achieve obviously there's new development in the area so that's going to contribute to pollution so it could without without taking measures it could get worse um but we're talking about improving air quality um and it would be good to have some time frames and specific objectives i think um that we can be aiming for and for those to feed through into the strategy um and i noted also the measures that you listed um i wasn't entirely clear whether some of those measures were already in kind of in progress such as already implemented within the current local plan and whether there are measures we should be considering for the new local plan so there was a bit of a wasn't quite clear what's what's already underway and what and what do we need to um what do we need to address particularly within the local plan but maybe maybe through other other mechanisms as well so i was wondering if you could you know maybe it's for discussion for all of us but um if you've got any comments on those two things yes um thank you and that is a very good question and um i'm pleased to say that this is such a equality strategy is a high level document for the council to actually promote um and set our approach on how we will consider um air quality in terms of monitoring it and improving it um a couple of actions that we have undertaken already in terms of review of our um air quality monitoring network and the one that i've just mentioned with the sensors that enables us to do uh short time studies uh will actually help us to identify areas where there are concerns of air quality where pollution is close or above national air quality objectives that are set and we are obliged to actually need them if we identify identify those areas then we will under a separate document approach will have a air quality action plan in which a particular set of measures exactly the way you said with particular measures and timeline will be set and be represented to council on all of that and we'll have a weight in planning um procedures as well so by identifying those areas at the first step we're hoping to see where we are at at the moment and the other aspect of the air quality strategy is as you said again is mainly to shift our focus from um previous areas that we were concerned about like a 14 and consider future growth that we are undergoing and facing which will definitely have an impact on increase of traffic and therefore uh consequently will increase our evolution so by considering and undertaking future monitoring district wide where so many developments are now proposed we are actually hoping to address that gap in our data and uh if there is a need for set of actions and measures to be undertaken then we have the evidence and data to um put together that action plan and proceed the future Peter if you need to add anything please go ahead the only thing actually I was going to add was that um obviously air quality continues to evolve so we'll be listening to the residents we'll be listening to members and and really you know with this effort we see a great deal of potential in terms of really community engagement with these uh of these devices and then obviously these things it would be shortsighted for us to say well we're only going to achieve this if it's a bottom run of the the ladder effectively when we see so much potential actually and in evolving air policy and just getting that community engagement making people aware exactly you know giving them consumer awareness effectively into things like with burning stoves we'll be doing pilots on those um we're looking at sorts of cleaner cars and technology and whatever else so you know we see a great deal of potential in this one we'll be something that will continue to evolve and obviously if members want to to add to that and help us evolve the the shape the air quality strategy then we're all ears yeah thank you very much um so I suppose one of the things that I'm concerned about is that through monitoring you only know after the event um it's it's almost that you've then got to put in kind of retrospective measures to fix it um I wonder if there's a more kind of more proactive approach that we can be taking especially when it comes to new developments and specifically that's why I'm kind of asking about what can we do um through the local plan uh the emerging you know the new local plan to um to address that um and I wondered specifically on the measures that you've identified whether you could say for each of them this is something that we should think about or the local plan um you know perhaps there should be a policy relating to it or something or the policy should consider those things so we're being a bit more proactive rather than monitoring which I see is reactive and um providing the evidence after the pollution has got to a certain point which you don't want it to get to hello perhaps to sort of come come in on this a bit where um what Paul's talking about I think what we've done on the zero carbon strategy on the doubling nature strategy has got into an area where it's almost uncomfortable by insisting we set some kind of targets as and then we said they're aspirational targets because we don't have all of the powers and resources as as local authorities to ensure that we can you know insist on them but we can let everybody know that is where we're heading for and so Paul wasn't around when so this is quite a big change because before the equality strategy was just kind of maintaining because there wasn't a problem so it was a big thing to get the improvement language which is starting to say actually it's not an easy thing to say actually we do think there are areas of concern even though the data isn't yet saying big red flags so there's been a big shift in terms of moving to language of an objective of improvement which have then meant there's a new strategy needed because there are actions that you need to do about improvement but I think we could take it as you're saying as especially as this hasn't yet gone to cabinet but you know let's look at some of those targets now I wonder in in this goes one of the and as you will know it that well Peter you'll get to know but so one of the concerns is around schools now all of the reports that we have here including the Haarston reports users reference than the current national thresholds we know that the world health authority has said there shouldn't be a threshold for PM but we have got one and at some point we think that's going to change but do we stay just behind the threshold which in the Haarston school it met you know 0.1 you know it was 49 when the threshold is 50 and only on two occasions instead of 24 but actually if we went according to WHO guidelines that's far too much but that's where we are in the UK with current legislation do we want to say you know in our new local plan in new developments where there are new schools that we would actually want to see that not just that the consultant says yes absolutely you can keep that well below the threshold or do we want to say actually we want to see it here you know this is where we want to see it because it goes to the county environment committee and the county environment committee looks at it and says it's below the threshold so it's fine but but the threshold is becoming increasingly undesirable I think and at some point it will change and by then we've locked in some of our larger developments and we've locked in schools so I you know do how much of a kind of an aspirational target do we set ourselves in terms of new developments knowing that we can't insist on it but we are inviting you know developers and communities to try and achieve that with us that would be one example I think secondly my second question which is around another part that we if you remember we did sort of insist came in which is the issue of alignment with neighboring councils and maybe councillor Jeff Harvey wants to sort of mention something on here but in terms of alignment this is also about the fact that the air quality within the city and our air quality inextricably linked and the licensing of taxis and the type of taxis and the emissions from taxis is a sensitive issue and we'd come to an agreement we know now that there's an issue that's coming to sort of the licensing committee and the taxis want to talk about how that is achieved and whether it's possible to achieve in the agreed timetable and they're wanting to have some kind of delay on that you know our initial reaction I think from this committee would be no you know we can't be pushing forward on all levels wanting alignment and then stepping our foot off the accelerator on this one that was agreed how many two years ago now we have had COVID there are all sorts of contexts and circumstances but I think as the committee I don't know Jeff our recommendation would be in terms of that process yes um thank you chair well I think it it it would be um very disappointing if we were to um well pause or or or let our timetable for introduction of ultra low emission vehicles and zero emission vehicles as taxes we were to let that slide particularly as the city council have said they're not going to let their timetable slide it would create a sort of disjointed local kind of landscape because we know that taxi drivers you know have the ability to choose whether they license with the city or or south Cambridge so I think we're very regrettable to suddenly abandon our timetable also let it slip by I mean I think the taxi trade have sort of asked for you know three three years of slippage I think we've got to be very careful about that and the other point I because we could make here is that um although perhaps the focus has been on greenhouse gas emissions um you know what we're talking about here is is of equal if if not more importance um because directly impacts the health of our residents and whereas the um taxi operators are saying we can't possibly afford to go for ultra low emission vehicles or zero emission vehicles um if that means um well they have to stay with um diesel vehicles um I don't think that's arguable because um they have the alternative of petrol which I think um I'm not really an expert but I think they are significantly cleaner and actually also slightly cheaper in terms of capital costs so I think if we were to insist on uh the uh taxi industry uh they want to buy a new vehicle at least let's ban diesel because then that creates a situation where um the capital cost is lower but the running cost is higher I think the traction diesel is lower running costs higher capital cost um that accentuates and increases the incentive to go towards electric vehicles because electric vehicles have a much lower running cost than either of those two options um so I think yes we really need to raise the um the importance of um air quality in this whole equation not not just greenhouse gas considerations so and I think what our recommendation would would be here would then be that you know we don't know how much you've been involved so far in any of this um debate that's come up in front of licensing committee um and we would like to recommend to um cabinet and to the licensing committee who are I think they're going to arrange a member's workshop to look at this issue that we have climate and environment committee members attend that and air quality officers attend that um so that we've got that issue strengthened there so you know air quality as you say in the strategy is in every decision that we're making you know um so that would be the second my my third point would be um when you were talking about um the the ability now with the Zeffa monitors and we have identified some schools that want to be you know to be part of that but I do think we need to make um a bigger issue of this so what they've found in a lot of research around action on climate change is if there is a public health crisis linked to the climate crisis as well and if you talk about the co-benefits in terms of cleaner air everyone gets it about cleaner air and people's health and so we should make a bigger thing about the rollout of this and I special and again I think in the run up to COP26 so if what we can do is look at how people are informed about the fact that if they have an area of concern like Sue Gaterson Wellington has just said they know that that can be you know they can write where we've got a particular kind of campaign around it they write in here you come up with the priority areas of concern and we've got some comms around all of that too because this is all in the end as Councillor Harvey's been just done it's about the same pollutants you know that are coming from the same carbon sources which will enable us to deal with the climate change so that would be my my third point that I'm bringing out so the first one is about supporting Councillor Bear Park on the issues around some aspirational targets in there two on can we do you agree that we need to bring the air quality issue into around the licensing and would be willing to be part of that member workshop and then three how we can yeah raise the profile of of how we're doing that rollout of this effort and Councillor Martin yeah it's just a comment I agree about the point the world the the stock targets are probably far too not strict enough and from experience from the evidence and clearly in terms of particulars we should be looking for better targets than we have there's a clear difference in some of your figures between the the remote some of the remote rural areas where you had about six or seven figures and areas areas were a bit higher I just wondered whether we ought to obviously in terms of policy making we're going to be a bit find it difficult politically to put figures higher than the national target which is unfortunate because we obviously have that desire we've done it on biodiversity again yeah we can we we was looking to see whether we can we was trying to see what we can but I just wonder where you might also think whether special designations of areas might help in justify having a higher target for instance if a biosphere reserve is declared but that's a natural area should we therefore say that because of that we have to have a higher target I think we ought to look at what reasons that that's the game of politics you could say but I think it's another issue I mean I take the point about but but by fuel reserves and so on it's interesting because 15 years ago the thing of the moment because we were trying to do carbon emissions but that's the way things go but I was interested in in terms of of traffic and whether there's any figures I believe one of the major causes of fine particulates from traffic is actually tyre wear and what we're doing all the effort upon reducing the pollution coming out of the pipe is there any scope for improvement in tyre wear I mean I imagine speed has an impact on that and many different types of tyres have different impact on that first of all what is the relative importance of the two and true what scope is there for improvement oh do you I've got a few points just to address one is about the air quality strategy and absolute need to consider equality in our policies and local plan that's where we're working very closely with city council to actually have a line approach on air quality requirements for planning applications that come through most of these are concentrated around sustainable transport and those examples of a few measures are included in the draft air quality strategy that will set out the high-level approach whereas the local plan will be the live and ongoing part of policy under which we will actually action take the actions that we can address some of the issues around the transport and air quality in terms of the target different target to look at rather than just sticking to national objectives that is a very good point in particular about the particular matter so by doing additional monitoring in different areas of concern we can build up a baseline data in terms of what we are looking at at the moment and then we can work on actively how to reduce the exposure to those limits so we can kind of focus on the percentage of the exposure reduction in this exposure of the limits so that would be a different way of looking at a different way of actually working with the air quality data that we are hoping to collect through different air quality equipment that we have in place at the moment in terms of easy taxis definitely low emission taxes will benefit a lot across the district oh we can hear you i'll step in I guess looks like it's a rise screen but it's just frozen in terms of the taxes obviously we are supportive in terms of this committee we must understand the recognition and the need of the emission vehicles for taxes on the flipside of course and it would be interesting to debate with the licensing team is that obviously it's been quite a troublesome couple of years really for taxi drivers and to making sort of potentially sort of scrap vehicles and place some of electric vehicles it might be it's an interesting discussion I think and it's certainly one that we need to be part of so I'll be emailing my colleagues and licensing to discuss exactly you know how we can feed and implement and support and reflect the views of this group and that's that's certainly something that I'll be doing as soon as as Peter's finished good fantastic and I think what we're saying coming out of this is you know what everything's got to be in the balance but in the end climate change is is the number one priority and so we do understand conditions and so therefore if there is some kind of stability but what was being proposed we think is unacceptable and so we just really need to work out what what the different ways can be so we can go into the details of of that later if if it's possible I think it would be good to any comments that could be provided in writing on the strategy and I'm looking at council for their behalf for their part I think he has some that could be provided if we could look at something around a sort of an aspirational target overall Peter I think that would be really really helpful it's not easy but it's something that we did with each of the other of the other strategies and I'm just wondering whether you know in this campaign if we look at the rollout and the campaign so you know when we did the thing outside the Campbell and primary school and we were together and well done for that that little campaign you did but what was really interesting is the whole thing around idling and I think it's such an easy you know one like everyone gets it everyone understands it immediately and it links in with the whole issue around how children get to school you know and that that whole issue of the last in fact last mile but um you know if we do have some of the the monitors in place and we run a little campaign around the impacts of idling at the school you know front door and they've got one of these little monitors in and the kids can do an assembly around it or whatever but that you know dealing with issues like that I think would be would would be key in terms of how we get the message out and how we bring people on board with us on this one. Castle Jeff Havish. Thank you chair. Yes I just wanted to um to say not notwithstanding the problem we've got to the moment with taxes but if you look at the trend data in the various figures you've got in the report seems to be happily on a on a downward trend and I suppose could we say that is due to increasing standards in terms of internal combustion engine design and the regulations controlling missions from internal combustion engines and hopefully as as we move more and more towards EVs that will accelerate that trend for emissions from vehicles to be reducing and what that's going to do is sort of shift the spotlight on to other sources of emissions I mean when I go for an early morning run in my village which is an oil burning village because we don't have mains gas this is sort of a way before there's any significant traffic on the road the the dominant sort of odour in the air is unburnt hydrocarbons from gas boilers sort of firing up to you know get the house warmed up in the morning um and I I wonder you know in terms of um you know comparability what what sort of an issue emissions from domestic heating are compared with road traffic and and how we expect that to evolve in in the future and and also I think it might be worth sort of studying in the same way as internal combustion vehicle emissions are improving because improved design and and then you see an old kind of car and you can see the the sort of diesel smoke belching out of it and and that kind of gives you an idea well that's probably worth a thousand cars off the production line because you can actually see the stuff well the same situation applies to domestic heating because um I mean that the worst example would be an oil burning auger which is I mean even the Romans would have thought that was old-fashioned technology it's literally sort of soaking a wick in oil and burning it and so not only are they only 40% efficient in terms of thermal efficiency um they're probably creating an awful lot of soot but I think you probably could look at the difference between um you know condensing and non-condensing oil burning boilers if you a lot of our sort of older houses probably have 40 or 50 year old um pressure jet boilers installed which I mean be interesting to know just how bad they are in terms of the emissions and the kind of particulars they produce compared with our road traffic there you on the spot there Peter so do you know the comparative now what you're doing actually is actually giving me really good ideas for future studies for the potential equipment we've now procured so um in answer to queries I mean we can sort of do studies on things like that it wouldn't be that difficult I don't think for us to speak to people and build control find out exactly who's replaced their their boilers and who hasn't and then if we're aware of certain villages for example where we think there's a high number of a sort of data appliances perhaps there's all the equipment there and so we're trying to get some some information and also we'll be able to report that back to the to the committee um yeah you're basically very interested in points and um Sarai is back now as well so I don't know if Sarai has got anything else to add but um of which I don't I don't think that's going to give you all the the answers today what what we're doing of course is having a a discussion between us to try and find out exactly which way the council wishes to to go with our policy and obviously it's very committed to it which is brilliant and then you know we'll obviously feed that back over the fork in months and years yes so do you know you are very important to us very important area so are you in the middle of your sentence when you got cut off I do apologise I've lost completely the internet connection so I do apologise for that um but I'm sure you're in good hands and Peter have covered all the areas that we were talking about but definitely the oil burning and domestic heating will be a very good area to actually have a proper look out and conduct in studies to for us to enable us to have a better understanding about the air pollution that levels you're facing that's a very good point thank you good and so I have once even though um Cats Harvey was talking about the the trends sort of going downwards I think and I may have got this wrong but I think there are a lot of caveats in there because you you've also put the fact of the impact of COVID on a lot of this this data and so we've had reduced traffic what what is interesting are the graphs that I see where for example on the A14 Girton may have seen sort of semi permanent changes in terms of working from home because those you know those figures haven't risen whereas the impington one and you said it because it's a different type of junction have gone immediately kind of up to sort of similar pre-pandemic levels um and so I think we for me I think we've still got a bit of we've still got to kind of watch this a little bit to see what's happening post pandemic and and with that and and again and Soraya you know is I'm I know that we've removed the AQMA and what that does is removes the burden of reporting you know which is quite a big thing so the air quality management area was around from Girton to um where was it up to the beyond Houston on the A14 so it was an A14 stretch and it was seen that because of NOx pollution it was identified as a reg flag area it had an air quality management area status put on it and then the monitoring happened and what was happening with the monitoring was showing that as far as NOx was concerned really it wasn't you know went through the time and it had successive um years in the last few years that said actually there is there's no red flag here and Defra was saying do you want to remove this because there is no red flag at the time it was saying this we know that we were having the A14 improvement program and the A14 improvement program has as an objective improved air quality as one of its objectives and as you know there was a huge amount of local concern about the fact that even though the development consent order said there should have been six months pre construction monitoring monitoring throughout construction and then two to three years post construction the report confirms here what we were campaigning for this is my community we're campaigning for is to ensure we never get to the point where we didn't meet 75 percent of full monitoring because then you annualize it and this is what's happened so despite all of the community being told you know nothing you don't know that you're not air quality experts it's all fine what the community was flagging is if you don't get on top of this we will not get we will not get 75 percent of data and we will not be able to prove what is happening either pre during or post we're now removing the air quality management area it's been removed I would like us to still have an eye for that for that community to say we are still having a very close eye on what's happening there even though the air quality management area has been removed we will keep an eye on that because we know that we didn't that highways england never met and complied with any of the air quality condition monitoring conditions as laid out by the DCM I can't go back to my community and say yeah but everything's fine the air quality management area in fact has also been removed we are in an impossible situation to say air quality is a top concern when everything that the community said they were worried about has happened and highways england has never been holed up to say you have not complied with the DCM and we haven't got the data to show whether really the air quality will be improved by the A14 improvement programme which is based on a lot of the calculations and hypothesis you've just mentioned that there will be improvements overall we're already seeing it coming up to pre-pandemic levels at that junction so I don't know Peter what I'm it will be very hard locally when the news gets out that the air quality management area has been removed and we're not doing anything else to say we will keep an eye on what's happening in that area to to the community um the orchard park does have a monitor but the other community side which is closer to the junction um you know has one I just want us to know them to know that the council is looking out for this issue air quality is important and we are monitoring that junction that's my rant over but it's just kind of like what we say and what we do I fully understand about the AQ may being pulled away but it's going to hit hard because it sends a different message and I know that's about reporting on things but can we say that we're we're monitoring that area that is a very valid point cancer healing and um at the previous discussions that we had over this previous the acne thing which was last year what I have put effort into um actually convey this message a message within the strategy is that although we are revoking their air quality management area we will continue monitoring along um the A14 that particular area but by revoking it we are actually freeing our time and resources to just focusing on reviewing and creating a new action plan which is the demand of the fraud development so if we will stick to the airport management area then we will be subject to providing a new action plan specific for that area um and that action plan is um a very specific document that will convey us to a lot of stakeholders meetings it has to go through consultations it's a very time consuming I will take a lot of time and resources I should provide that for the area that which because existing evidence of the data shows there is no longer valid for that decision action by revoking that we are in a way helping ourselves to shift our focus and resources to change the monitoring locations we can now look at um properties and junctions that have been subject to change of alignments as a result of the improvement works on A14 so we can actually conduct a much more and focus monitoring uh for that particular area without just losing sight on what's happening district wide and all the major developments and new towns we will be facing quite soon so in a way with the air quality strategy now hopefully uh continue and will be adopted we are now setting that approach that we will continue air quality even within the area that previously was known air quality uh management area but we will also um shift our focus and resources district wide and hopefully by collecting better and more comprehensive baseline data we can actually identify any identify any other hotspots where a closure might have risen to the point that we've not been aware of and hopefully it will enable us to actually have a better influence on the policies that might be needed during planning process for major developments but as you said it's a very valid point and we will keep an eye on that area differently thank you thank you very much and then I was just wondering in terms of the Haston monitor are you are you in sort of communication with the local parish council and community and school around the results of this it would be really good to hear about that because that will be when we're going into the other schools as well and do you do you have any um explanation for the very high peaks even though they weren't 24 there were two extremely high peaks and and probably why people were quite concerned about Haston anyway why it was prioritised but you know what what is it that caused those really high peaks of pm 10 pure 1.0? Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to give you a exact reason for those peaks except the fact there might be a it could have been associated with the settling time where the monitor has been actually deployed or it could have been something completely local where without um it's not something that the monitor will pick up what I'm trying to say so I completely understand the concern but it's very hard for me to know what it is yeah okay exactly exactly because there are so many different issues that could could have at the end of the day it's a sensor it's a machine as well so it could have been subject to some technical errors as well which is and it is a new technology so we're hoping that we can actually give you the better chance in different areas to see whether it's something would have uh it would be repeated where it is subject to different local and in different conditions um okay but overall it's good news for Haston because when there's a lot of so this is the main point about it's reassuring people and especially I think around school being able to reassure people if the the air quality is okay but we can still take measures to make sure it continues to be okay and improve I think that's the big thing you know it's that reassurance just to touch on something that Saraira mentioned actually was um just regards to promotion so the uh the report that we've just produced is is literally the first site is is for SEAC yeah great um very fortunate so we will be promoting it obviously to Haston Haston residents it will be going on the council's website as well um it is that we often was promoting and make people aware of of what the air quality data is that's being collected I just think this is this is huge really I just want to say thank you so much so because to be able to from where we were but to be able to say in a specific area that was identified as a hotspot that responds to communities concerns we went in here here's the monitoring data here's it explained really that's that's huge so well done thank you very much good thank you no thank you um so we go to agenda item seven so thank you very much um to both of you to the solar together Cambridge update thank you Siobhan yeah and this one's me again um this is an update on the solar together Cambridge scheme provides the committee for for review and comment um the committee will remember back in June proposals for the um uh the council to participate in this scheme were presented um and we did in fact go ahead um and participate in this uh group buying scheme for solar PV panels and battery storage systems uh which is run by Dutch group buying company eye chooser and it's a project led by Cambridge County Council and all of the districts are involved in in in it um so the scheme was launched in autumn our council's role has been to promote it and we um funded a direct mailing and our comms team worked with members on a social media campaign which was very successful South Cambridgeshire had uh well over twice as many registrations of any other district um participating with 605 acceptances of the quotation that um was provided to them um for their solar PV system uh then the nearest start of interest if you're interested it was a city at 271 so of these 605 acceptances uh there is as as usual there is a a certain amount of dropouts as people um what happens is that you get your quotation which isn't based on a survey when the company come around and do the survey then it's it's it's normal for some to uh to drop out so we are expecting about 500 to complete through the scheme uh the most recent update shows that 231 had been installed at 31st of august installations are behind the schedule that was originally intended and this has been caused by covid of course and also brexit which has affected the supply chains um for the for the solar pvm batteries so as two plans for a second scheme uh Cambridge account council have indicated they're attending to proceed with a second scheme and so we have accepted their offer to participate as before and uh the latest we've heard is that the intention is that that scheme will be launched in early next year good and is it a very similar one the same is the same one essentially yes great so what so it will again there will be a reverse auction of installers so it isn't necessarily the same installer but i choose of the dutch company is again running this scheme as per um our original contract with them was for the first scheme but allowed for the possibility of further schemes so what will be fantastic is of some of those who've had it installed of whom i know of two wonder it but it would be great to to be able to show them you know have a little interviews and film shots i mean there's nothing more we did a great social media campaign but also when the people see that people have done it and hear them talking about it it's an even greater nudge factor isn't it it's a bit like we go home so and well done for leading on this Siobhan council can yeah i like to comment on it i mean i'll full my my my scheme has been installed it was installed uh finally installed uh on the fifth of august um there were delays uh linked into the covid the original date was not met and then had to have further people come in but i've got a better scheme even than the original uh and so i'm pleased about that but there had been problems since and i think this is an area where my maybe in the new scheme we can make do something and in the in the in the sense of the people who are applying for this are generally not knowledgeable on like myself on on electrical matters um and i for instance have had a quite a difference between the readings on the inverter monitoring and the the smart meters i've got i don't know what the cause i've still not been able to find i've been trying to get a technical advice um there was no advice given upon how one should read these meters and how one should deal with that and how we should manage it and i think there is a need for that for for the for the particular market you're dealing with you're not dealing with experts particularly as the scheme has now changed from feeding tariff to uh smart energy guarantee and that's a different scheme uh feeding tariff you just have sold all your electricity and and they've made an estimate about the amount that you that you actually sold sorry and the amount that you used so it was all automatic now it's done on actual readings and the coordination of the readings and how it works and how accurate this matters people need to understand how the smart meters work i mean i for instance have got a difference between the reading on my um on my um what is it uh from the import meter between my my my inverter tells me i've used four four four kilowatts of hours from the grid uh the import meter says i've used 56 now that's not a difference that is aside it's a problem and i need to know what it is it maybe it's normal it's maybe once i should be i've not measured the right thing but i don't know i don't understand and there was no information given and i think that it should be given an obligation to uh make sure that adequate information is able provided for people to manage these sort of things i'll understand these sort of things themselves that's a that's an appease of advice for future good point but it's a good team i'm very pleased with it good point and and well then she won the meeting okay if i could just come back on that actually can't scan that is extremely useful information for us and i'm just interested to know whether you've communicated that to the scheme because we are we we know that there've been very few complaints through the scheme but we haven't had that individual feedback um from uh from people so i would it would urge you to to contact them week ago and after they said they got to go a technical person if i'm back to me they haven't yet been back i reminded them this morning not still not heard but i hope i will get feedback but um i mean i didn't know whether i don't know whether to contact the uh supply meet the supplier or or or the actual installer you know whether it's the energy supplier the installer who i to contact and what the problem is uh and it will be useful to have information about how we tackle that for when and who because and i can only do that if i have some sort of uh information provided for that so that's in particularly in terms of the new arrangements that have been arranged for for sale um i'll go battery system so that's actually relevant yeah thank you chair um yeah i'm just roughly calculating my head and i remember when you sort of first um mentioned that you picked up on this as a possibility for and um so i think we're talking about um sum between two and five gigawatt hours per year um or generation um that's to really come from your initial picking up and running this and so i think that's i'm not clever enough sort of without looking it up see how many tons of co2 that translates into i think it probably is quite a lot so um well well done Sean and well done the committee i think first order um and and everyone else who's been involved it's it's uh something that well it may eventually have happened but you've certainly brought it forward by a few years so that's just great there you are do you want something to put on the climate emergency you can calculate the you know you've got the however the 231 within one month i've had 400 kilowatt hours generated so that's uh i'm happy with that but seriously it perhaps that's part those kind of calculations we need to do where we can do them because you've got all the numbers and you put them into our dashboard great thank you very much shavon excellent yeah good members now in terms of the forward plan and dates of next meeting shavon do you want to lead us on that one at all uh yes i'm just just bringing up a document here with a list well i'll i'll have it on another piece of paper all day so for the next meeting um so i'll i should perhaps just ask patrick to um talk about dates of the next meeting if that's all right well we've got a an emergency one coming up haven't we that's right actually technically the next meeting is going to be talking about the local plan and that's um a week tomorrow that that's uh 21st excuse me but unfortunately there's going to be renovations here in the council chamber so i was hoping the committee could agree to uh delaying the meeting after that in november from the 9th of november uh to the 23rd of november so so that we can actually do work here in the chamber we won't be able to actually hold our meeting on the 9th so i was hoping the committee could agree just to delay it by 49. Good so let's do things so first one would be the on the 21st can we just confirm and clarify so the overview and scrutiny committee will be looking at the preferred options for the local plan and we've looked at the climate and environment committee also having a view on the preferred options for the local plan um and what officers have record you know put forward to us is could we have that immediately at the end of the scrutiny and overview committee so we take part in the scrutiny and overview committee meeting and then we have a section at the end so we avoid duplication but we do give the give the chance for specific climate environment lens on that one um and those invites went out didn't they patrick i think the scrutiny committee i believe is going to start at 4 30 i think the agenda fellas actually gone out and as you said chair the climate and environmental advisory committee will be starting as soon as that meeting is over i know there are many if you can't my councillors but she's sit on both committees so it does actually make good sense for officers and councillors to do it in their way right and so we've agreed because it does make lots of common sense for it but it means that we don't actually know the start time for the climate environment committee but actually what we're doing is opening up and saying you know participate if you're a member of scrutiny have a view fantastic and and like others like myself will you know join in that meeting and observe it and know therefore if there are any issues that haven't been picked up and will avoid duplication and bring them in at the end of it but we don't exactly know the start time because it'll depend on the any time of the overview and scrutiny committee but it's that all the complications i just think it is the most common sense way of dealing with it councillors but i'm now i have read in the last day that the scrutiny and overview committee was cancelled or a scrutiny and overview committee was cancelled with one but three yes it was a bit confusing don't be one before that thing on the 14th was being cancelled that was nothing to do with the local plan but the local plan scrutiny and overview committee on the 21st is going ahead that's the one we're talking about it's going ahead and it will start at 4.30 so the one on the 14th i think was being cancelled but the one on the 21st the local plan is definitely going ahead thanks yeah good thank you Patrick and Siobhan so the reason i was just asking Patrick on the dates was because it has a slight influence on what is on the agenda for the next november meeting but the five items that i have um uh flagged up there are the biodiversity spd um an item on trees protection in the local plan the mid-year progress report on the zero carbon and doubling nature action plans an update on the zero carbon communities grant and six free trees scheme an update on net zero plans for council housing which was um intended that today's meeting but has had to be delayed uh so those are the those are the additional items then there is the standing item the green investments update which with having whether with us the we do have a standing item which is the green energy investment update but with not having the officers in place that hasn't happened at this meeting but we it's one that we've put in there because we're very very interested in you know what's happening yep um and thank you so in terms of i don't know if John Connell is still on the phone on the phone in the meeting but with the biodiversity spd that was sort of fitting in around timing of when that was going to cabinet so would a 23rd of november miss those dates miss those my understanding is that it's it's it's okay just it's okay just right if it's okay just we trust you sharon and so we're happy for that and well are we happy camp that's the 23rd of november rather than the 9th of november yep good thank you patrick thank you thanks very much sharon and on that call it to a place thank you it's very much Patrick and angel