 Okay. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the course, BC 314, which is media and technology and ministry. Thank you for joining. Let's pray together and then we will get started. Could somebody please lead the class in prayer? Anyone could pray. Can I pray faster? Go ahead, Asha. We are about to have this creative idea, all this wonderful stuff, because of you Jesus. Thank you, Lord, for this day, as we are about to learn about God, that you fill us with more of the wisdom and understanding, and especially as we are about to teach you, Lord. Thank you, Lord, for everything, and you need to pray. Amen. Amen. Good morning once again. We paused yesterday when we were talking about contemporary Christian music, contemporary worship. So yesterday we talked about the gathering place, how that has changed. Then we gave a quick overview of how worship has evolved, starting from what we see in Scripture through the New Testament Church, the early church, and then through the last almost 2,000 years, how worship has evolved. The turning point would be the 1960s, 1970s, when Christian rock, or basically what we refer to today as contemporary Christian music, was welcomed into the church, and the way it happened, like we mentioned yesterday, was there was a pastor, Chuck Smith, he founded Calvary Chapel, which became a network of churches, many churches. But he was the one who welcomed these people who were coming out of the drug and the rock music subculture in those days. They were turning to Christ, and so many of them were turning to Christ, and that was called the Jesus movement. These people were called Jesus Freaks because they had a radical change in their lives, and they were choosing to follow Christ. Anyway, pastor Chuck Smith was the one who welcomed them in, and he was accepting of them playing Christian rock music, meaning, you know, till that time people wouldn't play lead guitars and bass guitars and drums inside church or for Christian worship, and that wasn't accepted. But this became a turning point when he welcomed these people, and because they were genuinely being saved, they were coming out of the rough background of drugs and that subculture, the hippie subculture, he welcomed them in, and one man who came out of that background, Larry Norman, wrote a lot of Christian songs to rock music, so it was called Christian rock. But basically, they used all the instruments, you know, whatever they could, they used everything and worshiped God, and from there came contemporary Christian music, and what we are seeing today, worship has evolved. Now, what we want to do is take a little bit of time just to discuss this, right? Discuss this. Now, I know we're talking mainly in terms of English music, but I think this has also gone, or what to say, has filtered into even regional music, Christian music, worship music. So even, for example, in our regional languages, there is the use of nice exuberant music and instruments in contemporary Christian worship, right? So it's kind of become pervasive and filled into different expressions. But let's, you know, let's just think about contemporary Christian music in terms of English worship, English worship. And let's discuss what is the good and the bad, and what are some dangers we must avoid. So we just want to discuss that. I would love to hear your thoughts on contemporary Christian music. We're talking mainly about English music, you know, because I mean, we may not all understand each other's regional language music, but the whole idea is, you know, the way worship music has gone and evolved to where it is today. What are the positives? What are the negatives? And what are some of the dangers the church must avoid? Let's take a few minutes to discuss that. I'd love to hear your thoughts. And let's engage. Kong, go ahead. So for me, I think, like, for worship day, like, when it comes to, like, music, sometimes, like, people, they start to focus more on the worship leader than on the song itself. And I think, like, as a worship leader, we should be careful, like, not to have this intention of becoming famous, popular, like how the other secular music world is, and it's like to glorify God. I think that's one thing. And like, also, about, like, it's not like about competition or, like, glorifying God. And, yeah, that's me. That's an important point. Yes. Yes. Good. Say your thoughts. Yes, pastor. So on the positive side, I would say the way worship has evolved, it has been inclusive in such a way that there's something for every generation in expressing their passion and worship for Jesus Christ. If there was it something that could connect to the younger generation, then a lot of that generation, or my generation, or, you know, all the times that the music worship has evolved would have been lost. But every generation, as it evolves, it captures everyone, you know, to express how much they love God and their worship for Him. Another point, again, is as it evolves, it also helps to catch others who are in the world. You know, music itself is true. But what you use the music to do is what makes it wrong. Music itself is just music. But how you use it, what comes into the lyrics, is what defines who you worshiping. So, you know, for people who have been in the world and they come into the faith, now their lives are changed, you know, they can still use their music, but now they're directing it over to God. But the flip side to it is that, you know, there's something about hymns that we can never, no matter how long we go, or how much, you know, worship music has evolved. There's something about hymns is that most of them were very, very, were word-based. They were all word-based. To an extent, I wouldn't say all. It's like we're drifting away in terms of our worship songs being foundationally on the world, based on the world, basically, you know. So, that's just a danger there whereby we might, our passion and emotions are good to express, but where is the root of the songs? Where are they coming from? You know, at the word-based, at the faith-based, at the spirit field. So, that's a danger, you know, to how our worship or worship music has evolved. You know, that's a danger area that people may not be paying attention to. And I think, yeah, I think that's just my thoughts for now. Yes, thank you, Pasi. Very good. Good. Yeah, that's good. So, you know, if we put all these thoughts together, you know, Kung said the worship, the focus must not be on the worship leader. It's not a performance. It's not a competition. The good side of contemporary music is, yeah, you know, it engages people, the youth, and even people who come in from the world, you know, directing them to worship God. But like, say, he pointed out, one of the things we are noticing, noticing, is in the content of the songs, especially in contrast to the hymns, you know, and all of us recognize the hymns are so solid, because they are based, I'm not saying all the hymns, but the good hymns, the hymns that, you know, we've been singing in your true time, those are really solid on the wood of God. And some of the contemporary songs, you know, are lacking in that respect. So, good, good points, everyone. Anybody else? What are the good, what are the, you know, what are the good sides, what are the downsides, and what are the things you must avoid in contemporary Christian music and worship? Roshan, go ahead. Pastor, the first thing I feel in regards to contemporary music, that is, I mean, some of the hymns are old hymns, which are so rich, and now they are bringing it out in a contemporary way. So that's a very good thing, because in regards to becoming current, the church becoming current, we need to be open to the present style of music, different styles of music. That's one of the positive sides, so to say. And the negative side is that in the midst of all that, what is the emphasis and what is the focus on? Because sometimes what happens is we tend to move away from the real focus and the attention comes on the music, especially, you know, with the young people, with the music and with all the other things. When actually the focus has to be the Word of God and the voice of God and what God is saying to us, the focus has to be Jesus. So that has to be clearly emphasized. And that should, that the focus we should never leave. Everything else, the music has to be in line with what the Word of God says and what God is saying. So one of the dangers that is what we are seeing in the current time, that we are moving away from the Word of God and the focus is coming on music and all those things. So along with all those things, I think we have to emphasize on the principles of the Word, the lifestyle of a worship leader and what worship is all about. That's what I feel, Pastor. Thank you. Yeah. Good. Good. Thank you. So, you know, I think that the main theme that is coming out is, yes, it is important to be contemporary in our worship expression in the music we use. That's very important because it does have the plus points. But at the same time, there are certain things we have to be very careful about. Like you've been pointing out, it shouldn't become a performance. It shouldn't become about the worship leader. It shouldn't be just something about emotion, but the content, which has to be the Word of God. That has to be central. And, yeah, very good thoughts. And I agree with that. And as a pastor here, turning through church, we've struggled with it. We've struggled with it as well. We've had our own challenges. And I remember when I'm going back in time, of course, almost 15, 16 years, something like that. From that time, we were emphasizing with our worship team members, hey, guys, this is not a show. This is not a performance. We want to be excellent. We want to be good, but it is still about the Lord. And at that time, we had some very, very skilled musicians who were part of our worship team. And we were very clear on this. And I'm just sharing this experience because I want to let you know we struggled through all of this. But one of the things we emphasized with them was, look, your first commitment is to being here, worship, being, listening to the Word and so on. Then you get, then only you can be on the stage leading worship because, you know, that was the way. We didn't want people just to come and do it and go on. But then, you know, at that time, there were people who used to come only on the Sundays. They used to come to church, only on the Sundays that they had to play. And the other Sundays, you won't find them in church. And as a pastor, that for me is like, that's not acceptable. You know, you need to be sitting and receiving God's Word and you need to be growing together, be adjourning together. This is not, you're not coming here because we need you to do a performance. So, you know, I had to address it with a team repeatedly and say, hey guys, you know, repeat a bit. And then finally, it reached a point where, now remember, the people who were there were, you know, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that some of them were among India's best artists, you know, in their skill level. They were among the best in the country. And, you know, they were playing and they were believers. They were believers. But this was the problem. They would only come on the Sunday. They were scheduled to play. So one, I remember once, and I called them all to the office. And this was after a lot of, you know, a lot of, a lot of patience and sharing and explaining to them, you know, why baby want to go as a worship, you know, like one day I remember this meeting in my heart. I mean, I remember this meeting because that was the last meeting we had. I called them all the office. And, you know, I talked to them. I said, see, you know, I'm not a musician. I, you know, we respect your talent. We respect what God, you know, God has placed in you. But we require you. If you want to be on stage, you've got to be here every Sunday. You've got to, you know, you've got to be receiving. You've got to be growing. And this is a journey. We don't want people who come and perform, you know, and we had all of that conversation. But, you know, that was the last time because several of them left the church after that meeting. But we had to take our stand, you know, as a church. Yes, we respect musicians. We respect their talent. We respect everything. But this is sacred, right? This is not a performance. This is not us putting people on stage so that, you know, everybody feels good that you have great music now. This is about worshiping God. And so, you know, we've made our journey through all of that. And then we even today, you know, that's our focus. If we want to be exceptional in our music and the baby play, etc. But we are first of all here to worship God. So that balances, and especially in the context of a local church, we have to find, we have to maintain, and we have to be very clear, you know, that about that. We cannot let just the excitement of having great musicians and wonderful instruments, we can't let that supersede the fact that this is all about worshiping God. So holding that together in the right way is very important. Okay. So, Louis, I see a comment, music is generational, cuts across all age groups. And I want to believe that Christian music is a framework that communicates the present theology of the body. If the holistic theology of the body is one thing, it would find expression in the blood prayer of the Christian music. Yeah. So, and it is true, you know, that the music and the worship and the words that we use is actually communicating like what Louis pointing out is actually communicating our beliefs. You know, it should communicate. And some songs could go off. So you have to be careful. Make sure the songs are right. And they're written well and they're based on the word and they contain substance. So these are things we have to be careful about in contemporary worship. So there is the good side to it. And we have to be watchful about the potential for problem and danger there. Christopher, you have something to say? You want to share something? Oh, yes. Thank you. I just wanted to add that music or the gospel music has also become very commercialized. And, you know, as a sort of a genre of music, there is a lot of money that musicians make. And churches also make as in, you know, specifically worship churches. So I think there is a lot of commercialization that is in it. And it can also, you know, sort of not really as a deviate from, you know, some of the key points that, you know, you were devised, you know, around the word of God and, you know, growing and growing and as a Christian, etc. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. We should be careful that, you know, we don't get chapped in by the commercialization of the worship music. That's a good point. Okay. All right. So now, okay, Asha. Sorry, but I just have a question about the music world. So being youngster, we have this, what is this, we hear kind of like people put out a rap music and all the pop, like beat of music. So some part of like the way they uh, hard to explain is that, see faster because, um, like this generation, we like music that's fast and less, um, more like, you know, dated stuff than how the question is like when the people who are doing this rap music or presenting themselves on the stage, the way they do is like, they do it out of like, not the, um, connection type of the father in heaven, but they do it like out of show and this kind of stuff and doesn't seem to be like, sorry, doesn't seem to faster. Just like, uh, see these rappers, they do all this kind of actions and so they dance and they entertain and try to like, they don't reflect whom they're actually for the youngsters to like, they will show that they're doing for God, but instead they're doing like out of love. So that's a fine line. You know, that's a good point that you raised. So there are certain kinds of music where, you know, we would say it's entertainment, meaning it's not, uh, it's, uh, how to say, uh, it's, it's geared towards the people, not so much as a worship towards God. Right. Now, there are songs that are what we would say ex, an exhortative in nature. That means they are, uh, songs that are meant for the people. They are songs that bring exhortation, the motivation, inspiration. So they're not necessarily worship songs, but they are songs of inspiration or motivation, like, you know, those kinds of songs. That's a different kind of song. And, and those songs when, you know, when, when, when different artists do them in their style of music, uh, the way everything is presented, of course, looks like an entertainment. It looks like more, this is geared for the crowd. It's not, you know, an act of worship. It doesn't seem like that. But I think, um, we have to look at it like this, that the person who's performing or who's doing or singing, as long as his heart is, you know, yes, he has to entertain because, you know, this is a form of entertainment. I'm not talking about the worship music. I'm talking about Christian music that's, you know, that's done to minister to the people. It is a form of quote, unquote, entertainment, which you're ministering to the people, but you're presenting it in a way that captures their attention, so on. And it has its place. I'm not saying we rule it out completely. It has its place. It has its benefits. And as long as the person doing it, you know, their heart is right before God, then we should look past the entertainment aspect. You know, I'm thinking about some great artists like, you know, Carmen, and this was dated back in time. So these are very genuine people. Right. They would pack stadiums and some of their songs were geared more as a motivation to the people of God. You know, they were singing songs that were mobilizing people, motivating, inspirational. But the stage was really entertaining, meaning they were dancing, they had dancers. There were all kinds of things would be happening. But it's really impactful. It's impacting the people, mainly young people. And was he quote, unquote, entertaining? Yeah. But was he a true believer? Yeah. Did he love God? Of course. Was he deep in his faith? Yeah. So, you know, but the event itself looks like entertainment, but it has its place. So my thought is, we need to discern those who are genuine and those who are just doing it for the sake of, you know, money or popularity and so on. And so, you know, there are good people who are involved in this kind of music, which is not necessarily worship music, but it's Christian music that is ministering to the people. And it has its place. We need to recognize them, appreciate them, and look at them as, you know, and look at their fate, look at the life they live. And I'm sure we will see good things. But we also have to discern those who are just doing it for the sake of, you know, they don't have a life that backs up what they're doing. So I hope I addressed what you were trying to highlight. All right. Thank you. So we're going to move to another topic. And I hope we have time to see we should be able to cover it. The next topic we want to talk about is creative arts. And of course, this is very, very broad, right? So we're just using the word art for this huge wide field of creative expression that can go, you know, and I've just listed some of the things that are common. It could be dance, it could be drama, mime, painting, writing, poetry, spoken word. You know, we could add to it sculpture, we could add to it even, you know, so many things. It could be even in seeing the designs of buildings. There is also digital art these days. You know, so it's not just traditional painting, but there is digital art. So it's just wide. It's a very wide field, a wide space, and I've just listed some. Now, before we get into actually talking about some of these, we must understand the journey the church has had to make. Traditionally, and I'm going back, you know, to the 1600s, 1700s, the Renaissance, there was a time when the church kind of stayed away or, you know, kept a distance from artistic expressions. In the Bible, you know, we'll look in the scripture a little later, but there was a time until some of the history of the church stayed away because, you know, how do you differentiate which art is really an expression towards God, and then especially in the Renaissance, there was a lot of art that was very, very worldly, I mean, used in the world for whatever purpose. And so, you know, the church stayed away from artistic expressions. Now, if you go back into the Bible, Old Testament, you find that dance was a part of worship. Dance was not, you know, like we said yesterday in Exodus 15, after they cross the Red Sea, it says the people of Israel, they all danced and worshiped God, you know, with tambourines. So, dance was a part of their expression of worship. In the prophetic, in the Old Testament, you find that there were certain prophets who acted out or dramatized, who mimed their message. Ezekiel was one of them who used a lot of, a lot of, you know, God said, do like this, you know, basically acted out, play it out, the message I want you to communicate. So, we find that in scripture, the Old Testament. But then, in the journey of the church, there was a time when this was not very welcome. I guess the church was trying to, you know, like, should be, should be not kind of thing. And then, you know, as we progress, it was more like in the 1900s when dance and drama, of course, there was the artistic expressions of painting that slowly became, you know, accepted as a form of, hey, this is a, you know, a legitimate form of expressing either your worship to God or communicating a message from God to the people, right? So, you know, art became painting, especially art, that form of being, became accepted and slowly drama and dance and so on and so on. Today, I'm not saying everywhere, but in many places, creative expression is welcomed, is recognized as a way to speak to God and to speak for God to the people. So, people recognize that, you know, I can worship God and dance or I can worship God through my artistic expression, whether it's painting or something else. And I can also communicate from God to people through these creative expressions. So, so the church is in a much better place today. And whether it's dance and drama, and I'll just highlight a few things, you know, in the 1900s, the founder of the four square, you can call it a denomination or church. I'm not getting her name now, just give me a moment, please. Let's look it up here online, because I'm just giving her name. She started off in California, Amy Sample McPherson, okay. All right, I just googled it. So, yeah, Amy Sample McPherson. She did something very interesting, which was very novel during her time. She actually included dramatization in her sermons. So, Amy Sample McPherson was a founder of the four square church. She set up this big cathedral in somewhere in California. And this was back in, you know, the 1960s, 70s. And she was a healing evangelist. So, her sermons were, so what she did was, while she was preaching, she would have people playing out or dramatizing what she was preaching. So, the whole crusade or the healing service became a very, very powerful experience. So, they were not only hearing her preach, but there was music. There was, you know, what we would call this drama happening. And it was a powerful experience. So, and she was very courageous to do that. You know, so in one sense, she was kind of pioneering something new, where traditionally it was like, okay, this preacher preachers the gospel and he prays for the sick and he gave an altar call. But she was doing something very unique in the sense that she brought in drama and music and dramatization into as part of her message. And of course, she was a healing evangelist. So, all of this would eventually lead into the proclamation of the gospel and healing and leading people to salvation. So, it was very, very interesting what she did. And she kind of, you know, highlighted the use of music and drama as part of the communication of the gospel. Another interesting thing, and I'm just highlighting a couple of things, and many of you would may have seen many of these dramas and sketch and so on. But one of the things that has in terms of drama, and this is, you know, this is lasted over four decades. So, it's interesting. What's this drama? It came out of, you know, a community of group of believers in Ontario, Canada. They produced a drama called Heaven's Gates, Hell's Flames. So, it's a very direct message. Yeah, nothing, no mincing words, nothing. And the tagline is where will you be when reality strikes, right? And basically, they created this drama and they did it in such a way that any church which had about 30, 40 people could actually reproduce this drama for their community. That was a very nice thing they did. But I'm highlighting this because this one drama, okay, one drama has spanned for more than 40 years. It has been redone by churches and communities in over 400 countries. They've redone this. And literally millions have come to faith in Christ through this drama. So, I'm just highlighting it because this is something amazing, right? And in some places, it's almost like revival broke out, meaning thousands of people started coming to Christ. As this drama was reaped, you know, in their community, they played it over several days. Crowds started coming. Crowds started coming because people are being affected by this drama. Now, you can go and watch it online. I'm just giving you the YouTube link here as well. And this is by one particular church. And there are many, many, you know, churches that have done this. So, the tears. This has been, you know, using drama as a means of communicating the message has become very, not has become, is very powerful. Right? So, you can, we can call it skits or plays or drama or whatever language you use. It's, be understanding. It has been very, very powerful. And so, you know, we need to look at that. And of course, look at ways by which writing plays and skits and dramas that actually communicate the message. And there's a, there's a, there's a website, worshiplibrary.com. I'd encourage you to go if you're interested in reading things. They put, it's a little theological, but it's, it's quite interesting in the way they capture information on various creative arts and worship forms. It's interesting. So, similar to drama is the mind where in mind, there is no voice, but it's just people doing actions. But the actions are communicating a message. Right? So, that's again, another form expression. And like this, there's painting, writing, poetry, spoken word, and so on. So, many different creative expressions, which in today's world are very powerful because they communicate to different segments of society. People are really interested in those expressions. This becomes a medium through which we can communicate to them. It's like we're speaking their language and we're able to touch their lives. Okay. Now, so, you know, we understand the high impact of creative arts, whether it's in communication, even in teaching believers, or even in the worship of God. So, this, this, we are recognizing it. We understand it. You know, it has, it serves several purposes. We can use it to communicate to the world. We can use it to teach the people of God. We can use it as an expression of our worship to God. However, life in the creative art space is not easy. It's not easy. And I just wanted to think about this, you know, and we'll take maybe the next 10 minutes to have a little discussion. What are the challenges? Believers. Now, see, you know, as a church, yeah, we could do a little drama, we could do a little skit or play, and, you know, that's, that's, that's fine. But if you want, if you were going to do this in a very powerful way, we need, you know, what we would call as professionals, many people who are, who are really, who are highly skilled in these things, right? They're not amateurs. I mean, they are like pros in these areas. Believers were really engaging in one or more creative expressions in order for us to be very impactful either towards the world or on the church or even in our worship to God. But like we said, it's not easy. So I want to just think about and discuss what are some of the challenges that believers who want to really engage in this space of creative arts? What are, what would be some of the challenges they face and how can we help them? How can we encourage them to engage? Because we aren't to recognize the value of creative arts. We recognize believers must engage very meaningfully and, you know, must be excellent. But then it's not easy. How, what are their challenges? How do we help them? Okay. So please feel free to share your thoughts. And I see Kong's, Kong Bilu's note here, your research topic. It's good. Go ahead, Lorie. Please share your thoughts. Morning, sir. I think one of the challenges I find is that we get into certain professional fields very late. By that, I mean that if a certain trend comes on board, most times, Christians get in there very late and we don't go in there very big. We go in there as end users and not as places of dominion, if that's the right word to use. Case in point now, there's a, there's the eye is coming on board. And I noticed that most times church or the church aspect of the mountains gets into those things very, very late, very late. And by that time, the world has already started using it and maximizing it. And then there's always a tendency to bring corruption into it. And it is when there's that, that intense, intensity of corruption, then we want to go in there and begin to harness it and begin to want to start changing it, which many times we don't have the skill set for. And by that time, the people that have the skill set are now the ones on the outside, which we have to start learning and relearning. So sometimes we have to be very, very proactive and watch out for trends and be open for new opportunities to maximize the gospel. It can be in any field. Any field can be, there was a time in Nigeria where certain churches were like TV was not part of the gospel. But now after months, 30 years, they're now saying they want to accept TV and television has gone. That's three generations already. So you have lost about three generations because you feel that certain trends or certain technological innovations were not, were not scriptural, were not biblical, but they don't have to be technically biblical. They just have to be opportunities to springboard the gospel into a different, different aspect. So let me just leave it at that. But I just think that we get into this field very, very late. And by the time we get in there, we don't have the skill set. We don't have the manpower. They would begin to compromise to achieve what we want to achieve. I just feel so, so thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, I recognize that. I recognize what you're saying that, you know, say, and especially if you want to be, if you want to have impact in this space, creative arts, of, and we'll be talking next week about films and television, radio and so on. You know, if you want to be impactful, we have to be excellent. You know, and the sad thing is somehow when the church does things, and I'm not saying this is all the time, but generally when the church does things, it's not, it's not that, that we don't see that excellence. We don't see something that's so impactful coming through. And hopefully that's going to change and that is changing. But we, you know, like you're saying, we need to understand that, look, in this space, we need to go in early. We need to really be excellent, not give second, third, fourth, you know, levels of things, but be there, like you say, on the cutting edge, doing really good work. Yeah, I recognize what you're saying. And sometimes, you know, that's why people don't even come and listen. You know, if you say the church is doing a play, the church is putting up some creative experience, oh, you know, we know that's not going to be, you know, out there on the cutting edge. It's, so then it's so difficult to welcome somebody from the world and say, hey, come and see or come and hear. But if we can do an excellent work, they will come. Yeah. So let's think about anything else that, you know, if anybody has experience, or maybe you observe people in this space. Go ahead, Asha. Asha, what is this? Auntie Miriam from the ABC Disney. She was doing mosaic, right? So like, does, I have a question, does she like, establish for, I don't know what I'm saying, but the way she does, like the mosaic thing, so it speaks through the lives of many through, like whoever it may be, like anyone who's performing with Christian arts. And I think since now, phone is so available at any time because I observe people, like it's handy, handy, and they can, like people can start and start putting, like instead of us, usually people who watch most like Instagram and other stuff to like keep them up. This thing. So, so in Christian ways, we can start like to make up, like the makeup to dramatize the how like to explain the gospel in such a way of acting or anything that is to show the gospel and less to bring the, like, I've seen like people get inspired when they watch like, either through a dance or anything, they're, they either start crying or they're painting, they're healed or restored, like that. So I just give up. Yeah, so, yeah, so it has been going on. I mean, like we said, the example we gave this, this particular drama or skit or heaven's spell, heaven's gates, hell's flames, like, you know, it's been more than 40 years. So, the answer is yes, the church has been doing it. And, and, you know, and the church has been slowly coming into other spaces, like even in the digital media, we will talk about that in the future class, you know, using social media to bring out these skits or plays or so on, so forth or short films, movies, so on. So the church has been moving there. I think that's a good thing. That's a good thing. And we thank God for it. And we should continue engaging in all of these expressions. But I think what we should do is we should be excellent, you know, we need to do it very well, so that we can impact people. And, you know, to answer your question, yes, we are to, you know, to, to coincide with your thoughts. Yes, the church has been doing it, church continues to do it. And we need to continue to do what we can in these areas, you know, on the impact one. Thanks, Pastor. All right, so, you know, just, so in this space, you know, one of the challenges, you know, is traditionally people who are engaged in this creative art, creative expressions. First of all, they're not being either recognized or encouraged, you know, so we need to do that. Now, Asha was mentioning about a young lady who today is having her own ministry. But when we go back in time, and I don't know which year this was, maybe 2008 or 2009, was the time we, you know, we, we engaged, we said, you know, hey, Miriam, come get started. So she, she was doing a lot of things in church. So we encouraged her to, you know, in church. And we started, you can see some of those videos out there on our YouTube channel, in a former performing arts team. And we said, you know, you do this in church. So we kind of gave a little platform for her to get started. And we, and this was back, I forget which year, but I'm thinking it was around 2008 or something. So we used to encourage young people to performing, we should do skits and dramas. We did several productions. And some of these are on our YouTube channel every year. We came out with different productions. And then today, you know, she's out there. She has her own ministry. She's doing well in the same space, creative art space. But the church kind of helped her and helped, and, and, you know, kind of brought this out. But we need to do more of that. That is help more people do this. I don't remember just before the pandemic. So this was back in 20, 20, 18, 2019. I forget which year it was. We, we held a creative arts conference before the pandemic, where we, our goal was to really encourage people in the church. So we brought in speakers. We had three different tracks. One was in the area of drama and film and other areas. And we, you know, there were more than 70 people from the church who came together that day for that weekend, actually, you know, mobilized them, hey, you know, get on, you know, creative arts is a way that you can serve God. And so this was done, of course, before the pandemic. And so the first thing is that the church must recognize the church much, must encourage, and they want to do more and more of that. Right. And then the church must make it financially viable for these people. Because how are they going to survive? How are they going to be able to, you know, make a living if they're going to be engaged in this full time? So we need to think about that as well. Make it financially viable for them. And then I think the third aspect is for us to be on the cutting edge. It means to be very excellent. We need to push for excellence in all of these creative areas. So we're going to talk more about this next week on other topics like film and so on. We get into the other things, social media and so on in the coming days. Okay, I'll just quickly read the comments then we close and we'll pray and close. Roshan says, even in movies, we need to be careful what are we showing the people, some English Christian movies. So today I'm moving away from what the Bible says. Okay. Yeah. So we're going to have, we're going to talk about movies. We will, we have, we'll have a professor on that Roshan and we'll get into those thoughts. Good. Come below says sometimes could it be that the people are not just not so open because of traditions that were handed down to them. Yeah. So one of the reasons the church is a little apprehensive is, you know, because they're not used to seeing this or they don't have the understanding that creative arts can be a medium of expression either to God or from God to people. So people need to be educated informed so that they can slowly become more and more open to it. Okay. Yeah. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I hope these discussions are useful. Let's close and prayer. We will continue on some new topics next week because somebody closing prayer please in the wilderness. Father, we are most grateful and thankful to you for this eye opening discussions that we have been having over the period. We pray that Lord you grant us individual churches the grace to be able to do what is needful and what is right in our time so that we can impact our generation. We pray commit ourselves into your hands of God as we are stepping out into this day. May this day bring us great success. May we be fruitful in all our endeavors in Jesus' mighty name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Thanks for being on the class today and we'll connect again next week. God bless. Thank you. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you everyone. Thank you.