 Welcome back everybody. Yeah, thank you first of all to Leslie for inviting me to convene this panel and thank you for the shout out earlier on the raffles. I did a volume which appreciate it. Yeah I'm really happy to be here today I think this is a really pertinent debate and the issues that are going on it's even interesting from the first speaker and the questions. An issue is raised there there's a lot of I think parallels what's happening across South East Asia in general. So maybe that's something we can we can think about as we as we progress but yeah I'm really happy today we have three speakers, all based in Indonesia. And as you heard, echo is online I presume he's there so I'll introduce echo first and then we'll go from there so yeah Mr echo Bastia one is an independent researcher he's been to Malang Java, and he's a member of the ERC drama project. He's also an alphabet alumni. He completed his postgraduate diploma in Asian Art 2016 and his masters in history and art and archaeology in 2017 also with on the SAP program. His master's research focuses on miniature bronze from Central and East Java groups. He's interested in old Japanese inscriptions and as I said he's been part of the ERC drama project since 2019. He's active in local communities in East Java we've just heard some about that so that's great we have some tie ins here and he aims to preserve and conserve archaeological remains yeah and his paper is the story behind Prasati Sun Goran so echo. If you're all ready to go. I'll hand over to you. Good morning everyone. Thank you for the organizer for inviting me. Sorry for the nice background it's a market prior. We are talking about the past as the sanguran so past as these is Indonesian word. Basically it means inscriptions in English documents and we turns in more durable materials such as stones or blades. Today the next 25 minutes, we're going to see how the stone travels from Java to Scotland, and we will also see possible places of discovery of the stone. And we'll talk a little bit about the content of the inscriptions and also discussions on replica made by the local people of London of from where the stones are believed to be originated and as a disclaimer. I'm not going to talk about the issue of the restitution today. I'm going to talk about the sensitive things to discuss. So, I guess it's a good idea for me to talk about it for the time being. So the island of Java for long touch position came under a brief period of British rule, after Napoleon's annexations of Holland in 1810. The government headed by legion and governor Thomas Stamford gravels under the supreme authority of the governor general of India Lord Minto administration was set up in Java. He was 30 years of age at that time had a keen interest in Japanese history and culture. He was an enthusiastic and picked collector who had no qualms about acquiring priceless historical artifacts and sending them back to pretend. John colonel Mackenzie Collin Mackenzie sorry, who had served as a chief engineer of the British expeditionary force to Java was ordered with researching Java's historical past and when feasible, obtaining the specimen. He was particularly interested in written documents, notably ancient stone and metal inscriptions, which some of them he brought back to India in July 1813. And one of the objects that he collected was the process the Sanguran. Early in 1812, the stone of Sanguran was removed from the hill region of Malang. On the command of the local region, or the party was in Indonesia, named Kiayitumangung Kerta Negara and transported to the town of Pangil in Pasuruan, then to Surabaya where it was delivered to India as a gift from gravels to his patron Lord Minto. He landed at Calcutta in June 1813, carrying a present for Lord Minto. Mackenzie had sent it from Java with the following description, a stone engraved on both sides with ancient characters in a high state of preservation. Minto was overjoyed with it. He had been informed of its impending arrival and had written ruffles in this enthusiastic letter. I am very grateful for the great stone from the interior of your island, which you tell me in the letter of the 5th May was put on board the Matilda. The Matilda has not yet arrived, so I have not received Colonel Mackenzie's account of this curiosity, which in weight at least seems to rival the base of Peter the Great's tattoo at Petersburg. I shall be very much tempted to mount this Java rock upon our Minto crates, that it might tell eastern tales of us long after our heads lie under subdued stones. Minto at the end had the stone ship to Britain, where it is still on display in the grounds of his family estate near Helwick in Roxbrookshire. After being replaced as a governor general in December 1813, just six months after receiving the stone, Lord Minto returned to England in apparent good health. However, his condition quickly deteriorated and he died on the 21st of June 1814 on his way to Scotland at Stevenage. He had not found a new home in the Scottish borderlands, some 12,000 kilometres from its original resting place. There is then to this day in the grounds of the house of Minto, for which reason it has come to be known as the Minto stone. The Minto stone was not the only stone inscription sent to India during the administration of Brussels. Another significant stone inscription called Puchangan, issued by King Ayrlanga dated to 963 Saga, was also brought along. So earlier I mentioned that the stone, the Sanguran stone was removed from the hill area of Malang, but there is actually a record that mentioned the exact locations of where the stones originated. In the history of Java, Brussels mentioned stone found near Surabaya and sent from then to Bungal to the right honorable to all of Minto. However, there can be no doubt that the stone was in fact discovered in the hill region of Batu, to the northwest of Malang. It was supported by mechanism letter to Lord Minto dated April 11, 1813, which states, I had it carried down with a concern, and by the assistant of the native region from Malang, an inland district about 40 miles southeast of Pasurwang, or Pasurwang nowadays, to Surabaya where it was shipped. Another support comes from Engekrom's 1917 article discussing colonial Adams trip to Malang and Antang in the month of June 1814. Adams described the ruins of Hindu temple about halfway between Malang and Batu. And in the next sentence refers to a large inscribed stone found by Mackenzie in the same neighborhood and sent by him to Lord Minto. Based on this colonial Adams report, Chrome concluded that Minto stone came from the village of Nandat, where the temple remains were discovered later in the 19th century. So Nandat is now the name of the small hamlet in this Mojurejo. The area is very rich in archeological remains and there are two locations which have temple remains that can be associated with the colonels Adams report and possibly have close connection to the stone. So the two important places that we're going to talk about is the situs Mojurejo and to spend them as you can see on the map, and the name of Nandat is now a small hamlet where the replica of the Prasasti Sanguran is situated. So we are traveling to each Java, most specifically on the food of Mount Kaui and Arjuna Walihrang, which certainly you cannot see on the map. Not far from the replica of the Prasasti Sanguran to the east, one can find situs Mojurejo and also situs Pandem separated by the Brantas River. So if you can see my slide, so my cursor, so this Prantas River is placed very important roles in the ancient history of Java. Substantial number of archeological remains have been discovered along this river. All right, so this is the first place that many people in general thought to be the origins of the Sanguran stone. The site has been used by locals as a Pundan desa. So Pundan here refers to sort of the most sacred place in the village where people often visit for the special occasions. And as far as I'm concerned, the place has never been as carpeted by the each Java archeological bureau, although remains of ancient block of stones are still there. So this site has long been considered by many people as the place where the Sanguran stone originated because in the past this is the only place which has quite a large amount of Temple of Wins. Until recently, a new site was discovered that sort of opening discussions, new possibility of where the Sanguran stones could be originated. That is the Sittus or Chandy Pundam or Temple Pundam. In 2019, in the hamlet of Pundam, village Pundam, Patusiti, a farmer reported a discovery of a structure made of bricks. Subsequently, the each Java archeological bureau made a series of excavations throughout 2019-2020. And in total, there were four excavations conducted by the PPJP or the each Java archeological bureau. The site itself is located on the lower part of the Prandesweaver and the complex of a public cemetery. From the discovery of the structure, one can find Ioni and Anandi, a sculpture of a bull, which are placed under a small chunko, a casual bull-like building. And these two sculptures have been considered sacred by locals and they were also made as a Pundam. Again, Pundam refers to the most sacred place in the village where people often go there for these special occasions. The excavation led by an archaeologist, Rijaksonadu Nugroha of the each Java archeological bureau, have resulted in several informations. With the presence of Ioni and Anandi, the structure, square, informed, and festive is can be identified as Chandy or Temple with a sophisticated background. Not far from the excavation structure, the teams has also discovered this three-headed Siva. The Peripih box, which usually contains gold leaf and precious metals or stones and placed in the heart or called Sumuran of the temple, was also discovered. However, its contents were lost at the times of the discovery. It is also evident that sometimes in the past illegal excavation was done for unclear reasons, perhaps in search for the precious metals. Interestingly though, two Dutch coins with the date 1825 and 1826 were also discovered during the excavation. The team concluded that the structure and the object of discovery on the site all point to the 10th century or even earlier and might be related to the Sumuran inscriptions. Well, for now, we still do not know for sure whether the site was the temple or the holy place mentioned in the encryptions, which we will discuss shortly later, or even the place where the stone once stood. We have the evidence that the stones inscriptions, which was placed into the temple complex, found in the Kumbhakan site called the Masahar inscriptions dated to 852 Saka. So basically issued only two years after the Sumuran stone. But this stone was found near the structure that was excavated by the archaeological bureau of Isjava in February 2022 in Mojaka. I'll give you the fact that the Situ Spendem is located not far from Situ Spendem, the previous site. Further research needs to be carried out to know more about the connections of these two places. Even north-west of Situ, Mojorejo and Situ Spendem, there is a Ganesha known to be called as Ganesa Torongrejo. So Torongrejo here referring to the name of the village where the Ganesa is situated. In the past, there were reportedly several other sculptures apart from the Ganesa, namely a Nandi and also a Tuarapala, the figure of a guardian. They have been lost now. The Ganesa stands overlooking the Tempuran or the meeting of the two rivers. The Brantas Lanang River, the male one, and the Brantas Wedok River or the female one. The Tempuran or the meeting spot between two rivers is considered sacred in Japanese life. Again, it is not yet clear from what period this Ganesa was produced, and as far as I'm concerned, no serious excavation of research have been conducted for this Ganesa and its surrounding. But it clearly shows that the area is indeed very rich in archaeological remains. Now that we have visited two possible places of the origin of the stone and other archaeological remains that might be connected to the Prasasti Sanguran, let us now move to the content of the inscription. While in general, people are well aware about the current location of the stone as well as the history of how it ended up in there in Scotland. The content of the inscriptions has never become a serious subject of discussion, except for the curse formula, generally found in any inscriptions that become very popular, and oftentimes people would link it to the misfortune events, experienced by Lord Minto, Raffles, and the Kei Tumangu, and Tanaka. The curse formula has become the only thing that people remember or in general know about the Sanguran stone. Of course it is not true, as the content of the inscription is much more than that. The discussion of the content of the inscription started more than 20 years after the stone had been transferred to Scotland. It wasn't between 1836 1839, a facsimile, a part of the inscription was published in the second volumes of Carl Wilhelm von Barron Humboldt. This facsimile was later transcribed and discussed by Cohen Stewart of Ladyn, appearing as article 29 in his 1875 publication, titled Kawi Orkandan and Ladyn and Transcriptive. Sorry, my touch is not correct. Exactly a hundred years after its removal from Java, it was in 1913 that the transcription of the entire stone finally appeared in Enchiskrom's old Japanese Orkandan. The stone was subsequently discussed by Damei between 1951 and 1955. Damei corrected Prandes' reading of the date from 846 Saka to 850 Saka year. Damei concluded that the exact date of the inscriptions is 2nd of August 928 AD. Then in 1932 an English translation was made available by Himanshu Pustan Sarkar in the second follow of his corpus of the inscription of Java. This visit to Mindo House in 1999 by the Japanese scholar Kuzunagada resulted in a new rubbings of the inscriptions, copies of which are currently in the possession of the Mindo family. And the latest publication of the inscriptions come from the Indonesian scholar, Hassan Java, who during his study in Ladyn in the mid 80s, worked together with his teacher, the Kasparis, to write an edition of the inscriptions, which he said only published only in 27. So the texts are engraved. Really quick. Yeah, you got three or four minutes left. Thanks. Sorry, three or four minutes? Yeah, three minutes. Oh my God. Okay. Right. Right. So basically, the general structures of the inscriptions are mostly the same as the inscriptions issued during the same period. So it starts with the openings or mangala, two lines of the Sanskrit. So this is, this is mangala is not something common. It follows by the date, the name of the issuing King Srimaharaja Rakaipangaja Tiawawa. And then we also have the rank of the official who received the King's order, and the samvada occasion, and the processions of the Manasuk Siva list of the officials who came to the event. So the sapata, the cross formula list of the misfortunes that will be encountered by those who broke the Sema or disturbed the Sema, and it ends with the name of the scribe or Chitralika. In short, the inscription records the waiver of the illustrious great King Rakaipangaja Tiawawa Srivijaya Loka Nama Tunga, the village of Sanguran under Wahari District, which was marked out into a freehold for deity, Patara, of the Prasadaka Paktian temple in the freehold which belongs to the group of smiths at Malangjung. The Minto stone is the last or the Sanguran, Prasasi Sanguran is the last known recorded documents issued by the Salidra rulers of the ancient Mataram. The Sanguran inscriptions refers to the prince named Sindok, who was then found in the dynasty in the year 851, just a year after this inscription issued. And in fact, Sindok issued quite a large number of the inscriptions in 851. The importance of this stone was understood well by the people of Nandak, who then decided to create replica or memorial stone in 2019. The two central figures in the creations of this replica are Papa Sumerto and Papa Kahlua, the gentleman you are seeing on the screen. Papa Kahlua himself is the resident of Nandak. And with the help of four university students, namely Adid and Joko, who are majoring in history, as well as the names of our majoring in design. It took three months for the team to complete the replica. The replica is made of concrete and it is designed to resemble the original one. The dimension, the number of lines of axadas are made exactly the same as the ones in the Scotland. Throughout the creation of the replica, rituals were carried out. A good day was chosen to start the project and the team also underwent some fasting. So one finish, this stone was installed in the most sacred place in the Hamlet of Nandak, namely Pundian Bahtarmina, a respected local figure who was thought to be a female warrior in the past. It stands on a yoni, under a big tree or banyan tree, and close to a spring. You can also see the picture of the old Japanese axadas made of wire. The erection of the replica was intended to meet the procession of Manusuk Sima, or marking out the freehold in the ancient times. The procession involved a Hindu priest who led the ceremony, witnessed by the local authorities, and it ended with a guest enjoying the prepared food and drinks, which some of the models are found in the Manusuk Sima ceremony in the ancient times. The replica is intended as a reminder for people of Nandak that there was once an important stone inscription standing in their line, in their land, and that the inscription is not only talking about the curse, but it highlights how precious their area was in ancient times, so that it was granted a freehold by the king. For example, even to celebrate the inauguration of the stone, every second of August is done by local people of Nandak. It ranges from the public discussion about the stone in particular, or history in general, as well as other cultural activities such as traditional dance performances. Despite the fact that the stone is some 12,000 kilometers away from its original place, the stone will forever be remembered and close to the heart of people in Nandak. Thank you very much. I'm going to go right on time. Yeah, great. I'm going to open it up for questions. I'm going to ask one first and then I think we can, yeah, we can call up the chat on the screen then I can read it directly from that. Yeah, thank you. Really fascinating. Very interested about the actual replica and the sort of process behind that I think we've, you know, touched on these issues today but I was wondering how much, again, the views of these local people have been taken into account in terms of potential restitution of the Lord Minto stone or if not, I know maybe you want to go there but is there, is this completely driven by the like a grassroots movement by the local people or is there also coordination with government agencies, Indonesian government agencies. Thanks. Yeah. The local people knows exactly that it is rather difficult or rather impossible to have the stone back to their hamlet, if ever the stone, come back to Indonesia it must, it will have been placed in the national museum in Jakarta. So, the hope of the stone to be back in the hamlet of Nandak is not in the heart of the people in Nandak. I hope that's answered your first question. The second question is the project of creating the replica. Well, initially, there was a discussion with the local authorities and it seems that what this is based on my interview with Galu when I visited the replica, it seems that the local government did not really interest in making the replica. So, the money, the energy and everything's were done, were initiated by these two figures, and being helped by these four students, who are also interested in learning history, especially some of them, because some of them actually from Malang, so it's quite close to Nandak where the stone was discovered. Thank you. I've lots more to ask, but I'll open it up. I'll open it up to the room first. Does anybody in the room? Yeah, the lady in the front. Did you hear that echo? I could not hear that. Yes, why is the Minto family keeping the stone. It's a very good question. Yeah, it's not in a national collect. I have a follow up question then. Is that Minto stone, is it their property or is it now registered as part of British patrimony? Oh, wow. I think the stone is still there. And why is it, why they keep the stone? Well, because it's a gift from Raphos, it's sort of a tribute from the land that once colonized. And it's also not just an object, I think this stone, because I heard that there's actually a ceremony of rituals that the local peoples regularly dance every year. So they know they see it, but just stones, but as probably part of the culture as well as becoming part of the culture of the local peoples. I hope that's answered the question. Yeah, I mean, has there been, has there been any formal requests for it to be sent back? No, right? We're now not talking about the issue of the traditions, but I just, there was an attempt to bring the stone bags in 2526 by the government sector in Indonesia. And it seems it's not successful, but you can find it, the digital reports on the on the medias. So we cannot comment as more about that. Okay, we'll go to Ashley next. Thanks. Hi. Yeah, hi. Hi, thank you very much. I really appreciate it. It's lovely to lovely to hear your research at the moment. I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about the decision to place the place the inscription on a yoni to place that yoni under a banyan tree which is next to a river source or to a water source, and to effectively, if I understand what the same ceremony is there to effectively treat it as if it were a statue in that whole process. How was that decision made and is there some precedent for effectively worshiping the inscription as if it were a divinity? Thank you very much. Firstly, for the questions. The site is Pundian Batarbira, Pundian again that refers to this most sacred place, is chosen because it is Pundian is the most sacred place first, and then the decision to put the inscriptions on yoni is pure discussions or arrangements between these two elders because it seems it is actually widely known that yoni is symbols of the fertility, bring the prosperity and the setting in the well, if you ever go to Indonesia, as Lee, almost in every Pundian is actually it has a big three. Yeah, but the specific Pundian is also also special because it has the desperate. I'm recording with the processions, the Manusuxima, the demarcation of the land, it is actually a written in the inscription itself and the detailed the processions where the place started to opens or begins the ceremony and then is followed by the rituals of breaking the chicken's leg and also there are some throwings of the eggs and the list of the food, the list of the drinks that are there, the gifts that the village have to be prepared and also send to the those witnesses who comes to the ceremony. So the procession of the Manusuxima was inspired from the inscription itself, although it's not exactly the same, but they try to be as close as possible. The replica, because it is located in Pundian, even without the replica people would still go to the Pundian for the special occasions, more offer now that we have the replica, I think more and more people visit the Pundians to just put some offerings and then especially if you have a big event, wedding ceremony and so on and so forth, you would go to Pundian and then present offerings and then pray there. And I hope that answer your question, Leslie. I think in the interest of time, I'll have to move on Elizabeth, if you could ask her. I'll have to move on to next speaker. Yeah, you can you can email echo you. I'm sorry. All right, thanks echo that was really fascinating to see it's already generated lots of debate and questions really fascinating. Okay, great. Thank you. Okay, moving swiftly on. Next up we have a dipty Karina. She is archeological collection manager. Museum, museum son of a dial in Dr. Carter Java. We should say at the start thank you for making the trip here I heard it was somewhat eventful and but you've made it in one piece. So, we do really appreciate that. Yeah, she holds a master's degree in anthropological studies from Universitas Gajamada Indonesia. She is currently yet our collections manager manager at that museum. She researches collections as part of a curatorial work on exhibition themes, such as ethno astronomy and Java. I'm quite fascinated to learn about what that is. And Bali. The industry at that could to get a Dr. Carter and the latest she looks at children in Japanese culture in May 2021 she became part of the curatorial team at the aim project which is a collaborative project between the governments of Australia and Indonesia to develop joint exhibitions on maritime cultural issues between the two countries and her talk is preliminary research and circulation of the recent Wilkins collection in the son of a dial museum. Yep. Karina over to you. Thank you, Stephen. Good afternoon everybody. It's nice to meet you. Thank you for the opportunity. I think I cannot really speak English very well. I hope you all understand that it's very difficult for me to, if it's quite difficult to understand, but I try my best. So, I start this research, because it's based from the classic problem in Indonesian Museum about the profanance. We always asked by the people by the scholar, by the students who came to museum and where are the objects are come from. Usually, the museologist in Indonesia, museum practice Indonesia is very difficult to answer the answer to the question, we didn't really know where are the object are come from. So, on 2000 and 2019, I have started this research on the profanance collection, especially in archeological collection in Sonobudaya. So, basically, Sonobudaya Museum is our museum that developed in the colonial period in Jakarta is established on 6th November in 1935. And it was initiated by the cultural organization called the Chaffa State that they aimed to nurturing the indigenous culture of the Dutch is in this, especially in the Chaffas, Cirobon, Madura, Lomba and Bali's culture. So, this museum, this is the opening ceremony of the museum Sonobudaya in 1935. It's very festive. The government, the government of the does come to the opening ceremony and the it officiate by the Sultan, the King of the Jakarta. This museum is the home for the 63 and more collection of consists of the archeological artifact, ethnographic objects like courage, but textile wayang with the marks Japanese manuscript, London and many, many more the object that collected and it is collected since the Dutch colonial period to the profanance collection of the Sonobudaya, I think it's came from the donation of the Chaffa Institute itself as the original one who built the museum, and it's, and the other is loaned from the office of archeology to Jakarta, the donation from the ministry of education and culture during the new order regime, public donation and of course the procurement. Today I like to talk about the collection that came donated from the Chaffa Institute because it came from the colonial period that the Chaffa Institute basically was formed in 1919 is to give for this culture is organization is trying to overcome the wave of the European culture that increasingly floating the the Indonesian at that time. This organization is trying to preserve the heritage from the local from the indigenous culture and the activity will include the held the cultural congress and established the craft school for the silver the wood and and the leather and they arranged the exhibition program and also been built the museum that became the Sonobudaya nowadays. So the basically the natural the cultural congress that helped by Chaffa Institute in 1924 is agreed to open the ethnography museum in the with the main storyline about the Japanese culture and the greater Chaffa so this agreement leads to Chaffa Institute documented the culture of Chaffa, Madura, Belly and Lomba. So on start from the 1929 the book of based from the book of the in here I cannot speak that well but it's they became the handbook for the collection of the collection in Sonobudaya at the time. So beside beside the from the handbook from the book that came Chaffa Institute also approached to many people that have concern with the antiquities of Chaffa so one of the famous collector that approached by the Chaffa Institute and also the member of Chaffa Institute himself is the Mr. and Mrs. Racing Wilkins. They both are the very famous as the cultural some sort of like that so but the one who are most famous was the Anna Racing Wilkins, the wife of the Thomas Wilkins. She is the third generation that live in third generation of the Dutch people that live in Indonesia since her since the born and she is the daughter of the translator between the Sunan and the resident. She is very live in the very high position because of her family line so they are both are the member of Chaffa Institute organization so Anna Racing Wilkins is very generous to donate many cultural objects to museum so basically she really like to collect antiquities from around the Chokcha Chawa Malang then when the Chaffa Institute initiate to open the museum see very generous to donate her collection to the museum I found the archive from the KT LV this is the home of the Anna Racing Wilkins family in Jakarta in Gondomanan but the home is Arkon because of the war at around the 42 so basically this is their collection we can see that she's really have a favor to collect of the Chaffa Institute because her background also to you know it's give her the position in the society because of her collection because of her interest in the collect the indigenous objects she also has the very famous with the local and also with the from the that itself together so for I think it's about 45 years she collects many objective museum and because of her interest in collecting the Sutterham the head of the Office of Archaeology price the Miss Racing Wilkins family because their collection artifact is very valuable and able to provide an overview of the cultural reconstruction of the Hindu Buddhist period in Central Java later the collection of racing becomes become the exhibition headlight of the golden period during the influence on Hinduism and Buddhism in Java in Sonobudu Museum up until now basically from this from the the other collection racing that written by Sutterham there are like 285 piece of the Hindu business objects so it's consist from the 11 parts like metal statue stone statue while lamb ritual ceremony equipment inscription plate for the tablet and etc there's so many object from Hinduism period that she collect this is the statue the metal statue most of this collection that in here that I present you here is still in Sonobudu in Sonobudu except on the tree statue of that Tara not only for he she gives to Sonobudu to Java but she also give her piece of collection to the rich museum actually there is there is one more Manjushri statue I think you know that but I cannot find the picture it so but she is willing to give it to the Royal so I think yeah that's interesting so what what makes it interesting is one day I found this archive this is the original I don't think this is the original signature of the age of an arresting bullcams and it's coming from I don't know maybe it's 1940 to or between the 20s to 40 this is becoming became my fundamental for our research in Sonobudu to track down the the the collection of from another civil conduct still intact in the museum because you know there is there are true 200 more piece of check but fortunately I can say that we still have that 200 piece collection in Sonobudu because there are so many things happen between that time there is a war and the son of the another civil guns get the the artifact and maybe they split it I don't know it's we have we don't have any data about it so Sonobudu I can't make sure the original number of the arresting bullcams collection because and then in 1943 during the Japanese occupation arresting bullcams collected was transferred to the museum Sonobudu but after the war situation in the stabilized more stabilized in 1915 up until now we cannot really say that the piece of the collection are still in the museum or in stories there is a bomb during the war and it hits the exhibition room and it burned down the museum not all the the building but it's quite they they burned down many statue from the belly collection so basically what I did on the research is I can say I only can identify the the number of the collection that that really came from the arresting bullcams so there is the devasting bronze statue where the channel rose to Ganesha Lupa are the oil lamp so the inscription what I did yeah and many more and based from this we can say that I don't know if you can collect the collection around the Georgia Carter she also call like collect collect the relief and panel and and the stone from the program and I think I think she is very famous with her background as the collector so many pieces or many farmer from Georgia Carter tried to offer her to buy the the collection so so I think like the Wattantija Wattantija inscription so the the patient found the plate on 24 then the patient is only want to another thing we can that can buy not even the office of archaeology can buy the inscription the debt of the debt the another thing we can then give to Sonobudaya so I think this challenge in the provenance research in Sonobudaya like I know it's a very classic problem but we we like the original archive from the Chauvin Institute the registry number are changing during the 18 years since the Chauvin Institute era was independent of the colonial new order so it's like four times changing on the registry on the registry number so so it's very difficult for us to track down the right history of her finance the collection and also the limitation to understand the dance language it's a very pure our stuff is only depends on the Google translate I know it's the worst of the worst but we just yeah we just need the Google to give some big picture of what the archive states in debt I think this is my last presentation hope if you can I would like to deliver my knowledge to my colleagues in Sonobudaya and in your hands thank you very much Fantastic thank you Karin that's a really great example of collections research and object biographies and the importance behind it but also the challenges but you have a few Dutch colleagues in the audience here today so I think you should get to know them I'm sure they'd be willing to help you out with with translations in the future I think these yeah we you know collaborations are important and of course language is a key issue right in trying to try to make this happen okay I'm going to open it up let's see is there any questions in the room first or Leslie first and then we'll go to needing translations of old Dutch as well if you were able to get it translated would it make a huge difference do you think the answer is in the translations that you're looking for the scripts that your text you're working on yes because I think sorry it's okay if you can I open the presentation yes it's okay I think yes because from the archive that I found with the handwriting from the NRC Wilkins it's very difficult to read it even I think the translate will make a better understanding because from we don't know the context if we cannot see if you can see this this is the list the number of the collection she write it down with the handwriting in that that's there actually there are a lot more paper I think there is like 200 not only the Hindu period object but also the ethnography object like and we didn't craft that he donate to museum but for us now in Sonobudaya is very very I think that the challenge that we face is the Dutch language barrier thank you for wonderful presentation I have a factual question and a methodological question I was wondering in which where you found that the document and also if I presume you are aware that that there is an archive of the Java Institute in the National Archives in Jakarta but as far as I have seen it it doesn't have objects registration but it may may be helpful there there is correspondence so that's one question where you found it but then the other and then I talk from my experience in the pilot projects provenance research of objects acquired in the colonial era fortune which has been conducted the past two years in the Netherlands and because of COVID was restricted to the Netherlands whereas we have these ideal ambitions to collaborate with Indonesians to go at location and to go beyond Dutch sources so remembering the list on your PowerPoints with the objects and location of provenance do you have time so that's the first thing also to pick out some of the objects and go to the place and start from there just ask talking with all people at the location and to see if you have you may hear stories about family or people who saw something which taken away or so to get to the local narratives did you do that and I know this asks for an enormous amount of time so don't do all the objects and I'm happy to translate thank you so I don't know if I'm like so the archive are found inside the catalogue that came from this so the the archive are inside this catalogue I don't know it's very lucky for me to find this it's not even in library or the archive is just come from the nowhere I don't know my colleague is hand over it hand over it to me and you can see this is your this is your job to find it okay so but also yeah I think from the location itself I found it on the Sutterhams writing about the initial or the origin collection that when it's come from the Pyongan we are the Philips around in Tukcha so I make some cross check between two archive into archive so I cross check it I think we haven't tried to find the archive we haven't tried to code the field so maybe it's it's good for us to find it thank you Peter I wonder do you know Francine Brinkgever you could contact her she's in Leiden and she worked on the collection pacing that's in the museum in Leiden so I can I can give you her and the other thing that may help you but I can't it's a long time ago that it was in Sonopudoyo but what may help you I don't remember do the objects have numbers because you know you said there has been a change in numbering several times and I know that but sometimes it's possible to recognize the style of the numbering the person who makes the numbers in the only objects is sometimes recognizable it is his or her handwriting is that an option to look at for the registry number so I have another catalog that came from the 1935 for the opening but it's a very different registry number from the Chaffa Institute so we haven't find the original registry number for the Chaffa Institute or the Sonopudoyo original so those numbers are no longer on the objects are those numbers on the objects themselves are the museum sometimes there is in the object but sometimes it's finished it's already I don't know if the part of the conservation before so it's gone because the the conservator is make it clean or it's just not main not every statue or the every object has the number in in tact with the object anymore so okay thank you did she have any strategy of collecting or did she just collect what was offered to her see just collect from the Chaffa is if I can see the the pattern of the collection from the unresolved see just collect that around from the Chaffa from the around of Cucca Carta it's also contained with the batik and the wooden scruff the ethnography objects she just she just keep waiting till the piece somebody offers the the the object see also if I'm not mistaken I read the article about the analysis you can see a choir from the other collector so see by when the collector is dead is dead see by the collector but no one has strategy behind it don't think just around but actually just around the Chaffa actually okay so Panga's question sort of follows up yeah all right did she acquire objects freely taken from sites through Trigas I think you've answered that or it's maybe it's that you can't establish whether she had a pattern she she may have it's just the the documentation is not there to reflect it okay this is from the treat sometimes the piece came to her and offers but sometimes he acquires and go to the market and see that can work with their hair interest right the ethnography object but much more is they acquire from the field all right that's one William sorry it's not even a proper question but I just wanted to say that there's a lot of discussion in the museum world about cooperation with with museums in Asia and in the Netherlands and in other countries and this is a really good example of of how you've got a collection with with pieces in Western museums in the Rijksmuseum in Leiden and where yeah you have difficulties with the Dutch but in the Netherlands there's no problem reading the Dutch so this is this is a big great example of of where you can have a really nice project so yeah talk to us afterwards talk to one two three yeah that's for sure otherwise I'll socially engineer it all right great thank you current that was really great great presentation and again brought up lots of really interesting issues so yeah round of applause please and I should be able to do your present all right yeah moving swiftly on I think our final speaker is no stranger to anybody in the room or he shouldn't be I've known Ed for many years from my time in Singapore but but even before that I was I was familiar with his his work and publications I think if anybody's looked at any type of archaeology of Shri Vijaya or Sumatra you've come across Professor Dr. E. Edwards McKinnon's work he's now retired but he's still very active in archaeological research he was initially involved in rubber planting in Sumatra and he's been a long time long time resident of Indonesia he developed an interest in archaeology by finding Sumatra lids in rubber plantations and discovering shell middles in Hinay and Kota China harbour site in 1974 his current research interests are medieval inter-regional maritime trade Buddhist and Indianizing influence in Sumatra in archaeological ceramics and his talk today is a horde of Buddhist branches from Boilachina north Sumatra Ed over to you thank you Hello first of all would like to thank Leslie and the organizers for inviting us here despite the long wait we've been given an opportunity to present what is essentially just a brief field report on the discovery of a number of bronzes from a previously unknown site on what is now a sugar plain sugar cane plantation to the north west of Maidan city essentially there were a dozen images two standing Buddha's which I'll describe in more detail two fragments of Buddha's two standing Avalokiteshvara images which are probably quite early for their type a forearmed Avalokiteshvara image in a seated position a fragment which is rather badly corroded with a limbless head only another image which initially we thought might be a manjusri but now we're undecided and it is as yet unidentified there's a miniature Ganesha image fragments of the legs and the base and the hand the hand may have come from the large standing Buddha at the top of the table there are three small later recoveries a standing figure a fragment and a small goddess numerous clays ceilings of which I have a straight two and also possibly from the very same site but as far as we know it came from the neighbouring Hamlet of Thayambang an eight armed Amogha Pasha image which is quite unusual in this part of the world a general map of the area Buluchina as you can see on the map here is next to Kota Rantang and inland from the harbour site of Kota China the other places mentioned on the map are roughly contemporary with Kota China and Buluchina Perlak which was a presumably early Persian settlement Samudra Pasha of course which was an early Islamic settlement then at the tip of Ache, Lamuri or Lamuri and Fansuah on the Ache Vesau coast and on the west coast of Samudra of course Lobutua which has been excavated by the AFAO and the Pusat Penality and Archaeology in Jakarta which is near Barros and the more recently discovered site in the village of Jago Jago which we call Lumot or Bongao and this is extremely interesting because it could be quite early a map of Kota Rantang Paya Ambo you can see is on the left of the map that is on the edge of what is a tidal swamp land and the area below it is what is now the sugar cane plantation and the rest of the area was never closely looked at by the Dutch people because it was tidal swamp and not very fertile but the Buluchina plantation concession was originally tobacco opened up in the mid late 19th century and is still under plantation land this is a picture of the site actually the bronzes were found to the right of this track in amongst all the sugar cane and the woods in the distance along the hamlet of Paya Ambo that is only about 100 metres away on the edge of the swamp land the site was appeared to have been the location of a small religious edifice dating from the mid late 1st millennium of the current era it came to light actually about five years ago following the accidental discovery of a horde of Buddhist bronzes just 100 metres from the border of the estate with the hamlet of Paya Ambo in the village of Kota Rantang sub-district of Hamparan Pirak which is Delhi-Serdang region of North Sumatra it's immediately northwest of the city of Medan the horde comprises 14 bronze alloy images and or significant fragments all of which with the exception of a small Ganesh were damaged in some way these are a standing Buddha the large image which I'll show you in a moment two standing two armed Abhulakiteshwara images seated I am a Bodhi, a Buddha and I'm a Moghapasha image, a Buddha head a four armed seated Abhulakiteshwara image Abhulakiteshwara head and shoulders and another with a high Makara and there's also a seated image of a yet unidentified bodhisattva figure and the lower part of a standing image together with the seated Ganesha this is the standing Buddha it's 38.5 centimetres in height so quite significant unfortunately as you can see somewhat damaged in the open mode the right arm broken off just below the shoulder and the left arm and hand missing but the hand which I'll show later may have well come from this image this is really quite a significant find also a smaller standing Buddha fragment 18.5 centimetres in height with the lower part below the knees missing again in the open mode with the right hand raised in a Bayamudra and the left partially missing I should explain that neither my colleague Ikhwan Nassavi or I are really iconographers so we don't really know very much about the stylistic affinities of the images but we try to present the photographs so that others can at least analyse what they might be this is a guilt on bronze seated Buddha Amogha Siddhi image height 19th century but as you can see rather badly corroded the nimbus is intact the right hand raised in a Bayamudra the mudra of reassurance safety and protection but then the whatever the left hand was holding is broken off and not identified a Buddha fragment the head and upper part of the torso only this is quite small just six and a half centimetres in height the image is in the open mode with the right hand in the Bayamudra and it has a low Ushnisha with tight curls I'm afraid the picture is not as clear as it might be then we have two Abolokiteshvala images almost complete the main images of Abolokiteshvala a seated forearm version and fragments of two other images one displaying a nimbus and the second with a high Makota which were all recovered in the same location I should perhaps explain that the chapter found these things was actually just a plantation worker and he hasn't explained why he was digging in this particular location but it could have been that one of the pieces was brought to the surface and he spotted it and then continued to dig and found all the rest I've been to the site there's not much to see on the surface it's all very badly plowed up because of the sugarcane but almost all of the images in fact are quite badly corroded and there's nobody locally who knows how to clean this material so it's better just left for the time being a standing image with a nimbus which is 14 centimetres in height almost complete except for the arms and hands and you can see the Diana Buddha in the Makota unfortunately the other missing pieces haven't turned up a second image of a similar type, height 11 centimetres both hands and the feet are missing and of course you can see the face is horribly corroded and disfigured but perhaps if it was cleaned up it might be a much more presentable picture this odd piece out actually, no sign of corrosion on this highly polished, rather worn seated image of a forearm bevelokitesvara seated on a lion throne is 16.5 centimetres in height we haven't been able to work out why this should be so highly polished and free of corrosion whereas all the other pieces do in fact seem to be quite badly damaged the head of another image very heavily corroded this is only 5.5 centimetres in height the head and shoulders and the Diana Buddha in the Makota then this head only 5.5 centimetres in height again quite badly corroded in parts but the Buddha and each other in the high Makota is clearly visible and I have two pictures from the sides this is somewhat similar to the stone image which was discovered in Ache and I think these are probably a couple of centuries earlier the features on this seem to be quite well preserved then this is the unidentified image which we originally thought might be a Mount Yushari but now we have doubts about it the height 7.3 centimetres and 7.5 centimetres in width but as you can see quite badly corroded and this I thought was one among the most interesting pieces in the collection a very plain small Ganesh the void of any kind of decoration there is a somewhat similar stone image in the museum in Chennai and I think it's possibly fairly early and it dates from about the 8th to 9th centuries very unusual I don't know of any other similar images of this nature found in Sumatra or even in Java and then the two fragments the lower part of a standing image with a base and on the right is the hand which may have come from the large standing Buddha holding something you can't really see what it is and then laterally a colleague went back to the site with a metal detector and dug up these three pieces the one on the right is obviously a goddess but what the other two are I have no idea what they might be the one on the left looks particularly crudely made very small so that is pretty well all the ones we know of that came from this particular site in the sugarcane plantation but the local archaeological institute carried out a brief survey a few months ago and they came up with numerous clay ceilings from around about the same location some ceramic fragments which are Tang Dynasty, Chinese stonewares and fragments of glass as far as I know no one has been able to decipher the inscriptions on these ceilings as yet but perhaps with better photographs somebody will be able to make something of it and finally this eight armed Amogapasha image may have come from this site but it was brought to another private collection by somebody else saying it had come from Paya Amul which is only a hundred meters away from the site but it could be part of the same horde this is pretty well preserved it would appear to have south Indian characteristics I'm sorry that the picture is not only better than this one but it's worth noting that the Kutterentang site which begins in Paya Amul and stretches throughout the swamp lands of Kutterentang is littered with early Islamic grave markers and a lot of ceramic material from the 11th to 14th centuries and I'd just like to comment on the current cultural heritage legislation of law number 11 of 2010 this delegates responsibility for all cultural heritage management to regional governors and regency bullpatties and although very well intentioned in delegating the responsibility to local authorities there does not however seem to be any effective means to ensure that the system actually works nor is there adequate provision for funding for the recovery of chance finds at least in northern Sumatra which is the area I'm familiar with consequently to this some sites have proved very difficult to protect and several have been destroyed due to the lack of interest or understanding of the local authorities the pressure on land exploitation for new housing in particular has been a major factor in this issue and consequently numerous issues that have been dug up in the area over the last few years have often found their way into the hands of private collectors rather than into the regional museum so finally in conclusion I'd just like to say that the recoveries at Buluchina reflects the earliest Buddhist activity in northeastern Sumatra known to date the location of the finds in Buluchina which also includes several clay ceilings and glass fragments notably the site of a former monastery of Vihara which was once a focus for pilgrimage these recoveries are of considerable importance as they provide evidence for an additional early phase in north Sumatra history and previously unknown Buddhist activity in a resource rich area in close proximity to Kedah because the coast this part of north Sumatra is only one day sail away from the west coast of Sumatra so the communication between Kedah and the developments there were probably linked together at one point and of course Kedah was considered to be the western part of the erstwhile Buddhist polity of Srivijaya then Kedah of course was conquered by the Cholas in the early 11th century and a well-established Tamil presence in this region is known from Kedachina Lubutua on the west coast and now this most recent site of Lubut or Bongho which is on the west coast on Tapa Nali Bay and thank you for your kind attention thank you Ed for fascinating discovery really interesting material anybody questions in the room first yeah I mean it's always an obstacle yeah with the owners of the land and then the site is part of a nationally owned sugar cane plantation Mr. Wee actually pronounces his name is a supermarket owner Chinese gentleman who's been in business for something like 20 years and has been collecting bits and pieces he has a magpie collection of all sorts of things sorry a magpie collection of all sorts of local cultural artefacts Chrissie's bronzes, cloth, beads, clay ceilings, coins anything that these bring along to him he seems to buy them all up and just make part of his collection we were very fortunate to discover these things my colleague Ikhwan got to meet him and he then very kindly allowed us to come and photograph the objects which he has there no attempt has been made yet to clean them because there's nobody that has the appropriate expertise yet any other questions in the room yeah the front thank you for pointing out the weak points of the legislation concerning cultural property I think this is one of the major issues also concerning repatriation or returning artefacts because according to international law only state parties are responsible and are partners of these legislations and on the other hand only state institutions such as official museums are the target of place for restitutions while private collectors can do whatever they like and this displays a major difference of the objects on the one hand they are documents of the universal human history in museums on the other hand like this degree or also like this already it's a commodity to be traded by my international art market and I think we should be aware that such objects they are in their materiality just the same but the use of it today it really works apart and yes no restitution claims for restitution or repatriation to its private owners because the whole legislation is coined or stamped by the idea of private thought and if I just make another comment you would think that it was probably the monastery there that you mentioned the Chola on the other side you mentioned the early Lutheran graves do you think that the monastery was simply abandoned or was it a kind of iconoclast when Islam came or I don't know how the Chola treated the conscious I don't know it's possible that the site was abandoned there was obviously a connection between the people that lived in this immediate area and Kota China because it's accessible by water there's a river system which link the two sites but the material that dates from here is probably no later than the 9th, 10th century if our guesswork is correct the experts in the fields on iconography can probably correct me there's nothing later than that as far as I know in this immediate site so I guess the place was abandoned but for some reason this was the area into which the first Islamic movement took over it's mentioned in the Sajara Malayu actually that the Sheikh Ismail came past the site in Ache and done the east coast of Sumatra to Aru and this site is connected with the former polity of Aru and then went back to Peralak and Samudra Pase I would imagine for some reason they've been abandoned rather earlier than the arrival of Islam I have a follow-up question if you don't mind yeah I have a follow-up question so the bronzes that you've discovered are small highly portable so what about of tablets or ceilings if you want to call them that so do you think they originated at that site or they were imported from elsewhere and if it's the latter where are you thinking because that again I think is quite an important issue at this moment I would say impossible to answer there certainly appear to be South Indian influences in the stylistic affinities of the things but if we look at what happened in South India metalworking very often took place within a chandy or temple complex so these may well have been scrap images waiting to be reprocessed into something else and lost in the process that's only guesswork yeah I don't know my money might be on Kedav but yeah there's another follow-up I think is it yeah I mean it's something I'm thinking as well you've made I mean you've said there might be a monastery there but the archaeological evidence is maybe thin so I think that this is what the question is here you know what type of structural components have you found a lot of bricks yeah or you know foundations and so forth but yeah of course it could be made for you there are indeed traces of a rectangular foundation at the site and long before we found this place we'd found large bricks scattered all over Keteranthang so there was indeed a brick built construction of some form there either on this particular site or elsewhere in the immediate area yeah there certainly was okay so there is some Leslie you want to ask a question yes I'm just stylistically looking at the point of this to say 9th 10th century is for me is just too late this north from here we have to look at 8th century for these to relate them to south Indian in style I mean this really has nothing to do with central Javanese style which is the 8th so I think personally with the whole influence from India we've got to look at 8th century and earlier for this especially the way the robe is fixed with a sash and a simple belt at the front the whole stylistic issue so keep it earlier yeah I would agree I think it's probably 7th 8th century or so but yeah I think there's more analysis needs to be done anyone else in the room anyone else online I feel like an auctioneer now actually Elizabeth had a question for Echo so if Echo is still here Elizabeth you could ask it sorry I had two questions actually one the replica when it first came and the place was decided locally to install it was there a consecration ceremony to consecrate it and was that group was the group that that got the replica and put it there was it a religious group or a civil group you mentioned both civil and religious ceremonies today and finally it was to ask about the relationship between the local use of the replica and the department of archaeology you showed us some archaeological surveys and it came up earlier on the interface between things that tend to go back just to Jakarta so no point to ask for them to come to our local place so it was has that come into play at this side as well sorry it's three questions okay well sorry I cannot hear because it's reading very hard here can you make it short ceremony to install ceremony to install the replica was the ceremony the replica group civil or religious and three interface between the department of archaeology and the replica group whatever we may call them I don't know their name okay right so the first the ceremony is basically I think that I mentioned earlier that it was basically returns on the inscription itself so generally in a Rochester inscriptions it consists the steps the procedures of the democratic teams of the freehold of the SEMA the details the details of the ceremony is actually usually returns on the inscription so that's the idea that the group use to sort of mimic the monastic SEMA for the replica itself although it's not exactly the same but the idea is copied from the original stacks increased for the student who decided to make the replica well yeah they are local community who concerned about the history they love the history in general and then the fact that they knew that the students was originated from their area sort of boost their spirit to make the replica and to make wider audience know that this stone is not only merely about the curse because if you look at the online media the content of the inscriptions of the Sanguran then it's everything will be talking about the curse formula why in fact it's actually more than that so the the locals people wanted to to let people know that it is not just about the curse and it is not the curse land more than that it is actually a special lens because it was created as a freehold by the king the third question actually I didn't get it quite clearly again sorry it's a really very hard to hear it the third question is about it came up in the first talk on the keynote speech as well as on the interface between the archaeological authority and local groups you showed some archaeological survey yes yes the well the survey was done because there was a report from the locals that the structure was made but it has nothing to do with the site of the replica which is not situated because there is actually nothing on the on the place where the replica is situated sorry I wanted to follow up well not about this but if I can comment on the return of the stone from Minto to Jakarta I remember something like 20 years ago there was quite considerable correspondence between the archaeological centre in Jakarta and the Minto family but for some reason it just fizzles out and I haven't heard any more about it interesting alright I think on that note I should thank Eko thank you so much for joining us from Java today and staying on online Ed for his fascinating talk and Karina as well three very stimulating presentations and discussions so yeah alright I think it's lunchtime so thank you everybody