 So folks welcome to today's session on the state of the field and practice of impact investing. I'm Fran Siegel and I serve as president of the U.S. Impact Investing Alliance, which is a field-building organization with a mission to place measurable social, environmental, and economic impact at the heart of every investment decision. I am joined today by my super great co-leads and leaders in the impact investing movement, Kathy Clark and Monique Aiken, who will introduce themselves in a moment. We have been hosting, I'm dating myself, but we have been hosting this sentence since 2014 and back then we indeed explored what it meant to invest in social for social economic and environmental impact alongside financial returns. We tended to speak about the drivers of growth on the supply of capital side, meaning asset owners deploying capital and investment opportunities of the demand side and what it would take to scale the practice globally. We will still likely touch on some of those topics but today we're coming to the discussion from a distinctly different place. We've moved from an aspirational discussion of impact metrics and measurement to one of impact management, from deploying investment capital in communities to power sharing and power shifting to those communities, and from mainstreaming the field to the transformation of our economic system so that it's accountable to all stakeholders. So we're eager to dig in. We had a very last year was our first time hosting the session verbally, virtually, excuse me, and we had a really robust engagement among the audience members. So please feel free throughout to post comments, questions, relevant resources, and we'll do our best to monitor the chat and respond throughout. And just to get a feel for who's joining us today and what you're hoping to get out of this session, my colleague Claire Mattingly is going to put a couple questions in the chat, namely what topics you're most interested in discussing today and what is the most pressing challenge or priority for the impact investing field. And while you enter your thoughts, I'd love to turn it over first to Monique and then to Kathy to very briefly introduce themselves and how they come to this work. So Monique over to you. Thank you. It's a delight to be included. I was not here from the first session, but I'm glad to be in this one and last year's. So I am Monique Akin. I'm the investment, the manager director at the Investment Integration Project or TIP. We are a consulting services and applied research firm that provides advice about leadership and turnkey solution to help investors manage systemic risks and opportunities. I am also a contributing editor at Impact Alpha where I co-host the weekly podcast with Brian Walsh who you might have some of you might have heard. And I also host a long form podcast called The Reconstruction, which is about moving capital toward justice. And Kathy, over to you. Thank you. I'm so delighted to be here with these two women and all of and all of you on the call today. It is one of the highlights of my year to do this. We have a lot we're trying to pack in. So I'm going to be really brief in my intro, which is I am Kathy Clark. I am faculty director of CASE, the Center for the Advancement of Social Entrepreneurship, which is located at Duke University and also CASE I3, which is our Impact Investing Initiative. And that's all I'm going to say right now so we can dive in. And so the first thing that we wanted to do is we wanted a little self reflection. So when Fran, Monique and I got together, we realized it's been quite a year for all of us. And so first, I wanted to start with some with some points about kind of how we feel about this year as individuals and how the crisis has shaped our work, you know, either individually or as the organizations that we work in. And so I thought I would launch this and then I'll turn it to Fran and Monique. I started this year, you know, definition of a year, a little bit expanded, really thinking about how I could help entrepreneurs and social entrepreneurs survive the pandemic. It was very transactional, very short term. I created a site called COVID Cap to try to coordinate the resources that were becoming available in the space. And then my big aha was, which I think other people saw as well, is that the piping system that we had really didn't work very well in the US. And it's still not necessarily working very well around the world. But we had these very, very big pipes that some of the government agencies started pumping a tremendous amount of money through. And it was very difficult until we realized that we had a separate set of pipes called Community Development Finance Institutions who could do that much better. But I, it was a realization for me that the, you know, kind of the micro of social enterprise and the impact that we often talk about really depends on the macro of what is the accountability and flexibility of our largest systems, financial systems, and large companies. And what's the relationship that they need to have with the things that have been kind of precious and small for us for a number of years in the fields of social, social entrepreneurship, and impact investing. And so that's become my obsession this year is making the connection between those two. And I'm going to build on that in future comments, but I'm going to stop there and turn as a friend for the same question. Yeah, thank you. Kathy so much for the reflection. And yeah, it's been an incredible 20 months. And certainly an eventful year since we've visited with you last. So just building on what Kathy said, the magnitude of the crisis disproportionately impacted the communities that we really care about communities of color, and made plainly visible to a broader audience that we in the field have what we've been calling attention to for the last few years, more than the last few years. And that is the current financial system isn't equipped to account for systemic and dynamic risks. Nor is it designed to cut these points to produce equitable economic growth. So I think in many ways, we've moved past the need to make the argument for the financial relevance of certain social and environmental impacts. And now we're seeking to make the case for how the principles of impact investing can help transform the broader economic systems at the light of the alliance we've been considering how we can effectively make that case. And specifically, we're impact investors and impact investing has the greatest role to play in the near future and also in transforming systems long term. So for us, we coalesced around the intersection of two main concepts. The one one is transforming the way we invest in communities to confront inequality. And the second is accelerating the transition to stakeholder capitalism to create a more accountable economic system. So community investing as Kathy touched on those strata investing strategies have been used for decades to catalyze economic development and opportunity and communities otherwise underserved by the broader financial system to her point. And then on the more systemic level of transition to stakeholder capitalism calls for reimagining the economic system itself beyond short termism and shareholder primacy, of course, to take into account the impact of all stakeholders, including the environment workers communities. And we have been really exploring over the last 20 months, these the intersection between these two concepts, and a belief that we need to advocate for top down structural reform to our economic system. But that doing so, top down structural reform is necessary but insufficient to deliver on the promise of equitable economic growth. And that we also need to reexamine the way capital investing through local lenders to entrepreneurs, nonprofits and investors, because we think revitalizing Main Street is absolutely critical. That I'll pass it to my geek in a second. But that's why this kind of theory of change, and the reflection on the new presidential term to the election, let us to partner with BLAB to organize a coalition of over 50 impact oriented business and investor organizations to call on the Biden Harris administration to create a White House initiative on inclusive economic growth to coordinate action across the federal government and the private sector. And so I would just say that these twin pillars for us at the bottom of community investing and top down stakeholder capitalism and financial structural form sort of things that we have been thinking about and acting on over the last year. Monique would love to hear a bit about your journey over the last year. No, I so double click on everything you just said, and I think about, you know, just the ways that we're all closer to what matters in partly because we are all closer to our own and other people's mortality, just given what COVID has brought. And there are more people that we know who've been touched in any number of ways, whether it be economically, the child care crisis, and other other things, just the health care system in general, that has now been revealed to be weaker than we all knew, among our other systems now revealed to be weaker than we all knew in these last 20 months, not to mention our democratic systems, not to mention both supply chains in the news suddenly, lots of folks. Did we lose her? What matters most? Oh, my back. You're back. I was just gonna say that I think for everyone now, there's a brighter line between what matters and what's material and what's worth doing. That I think that being so close to the fragility of the system and our own personal mortalities has given us at least a moment of reflection to say, for those who have the privilege of being in that position, what do I really need to be doing right now? And what's worth it? My time is now really clearly the precious commodity that folks often don't get to have that reflection until they're closer, older, perhaps on their deathbed. But I think we have a moment to say that right now, while we're still vital, what should we be doing? And part of for me is your point, Fran, we need to be talking about systems change and who we're all responsible investors, financial systems, actors and others. And what do we need to do about that? And that's some of the work that tip is working on. But I hope that we've also gotten a little bit to the point where we are no longer justifying the fact that we should care about outcomes. I think that should be now obvious. And we no longer have to be arguing the why. What I would like to challenge everyone is who's on the other side of the argument. Why not? Tell me why your position on not caring about outcomes is defensible. And that the IPC report doesn't matter to you, because it's a systems wide problem. And that whether the costs of racism and sexism and otherisms are not personal to you, they matter to the whole economy. And can we see people for their full humanity in this moment? So why should we not want more people to thrive? We all do better. So if you have the opposition, oppositional position to that statement, I'd like other folks to tell me why it makes sense rather than us having to convince people to be on the right side of history. So in that vein, and with that in mind, I think that's some of the things that have been brought up for me in this last year. You know, tips work is we're doing something that we're calling the Build the Market Initiative, which is literally how do we get folks to in the financial markets, particularly investors understand how to be participant in the systems change work. And we have a survey that we are building to gather people's responses to like, what do they need to know? What do they already know? And how can we be of assistance? I was trying to put it in the chat, but my doesn't seem to be working right now. But essentially, the point is that system level investing, which is the term of art that Bill Burkhart and Steve Leidenberg have put on the map six years ago, when they founded tip, it's suddenly becoming obvious that we need systems change work in the investing community. And with that, you know, we're conducting focus groups, we're doing in depth interviews, and there's a survey that once I can put things in the chat, I will share with everyone to be able to participate if you have not as yet. And so when we think about, again, these last 20 months, and how this past year has changed the field, and the ways it has, and how we can leverage the urgency of the moment to do these things and force people to not be able to unsee all that we have seen. So maybe we'll begin with you, Kathy, to share your thoughts on some of the changes. And perhaps we can also take a look at some what folks are asking for in the chat as well, because I think it's also in these lines. Yeah, thank you. I think, you know, so the thread I heard from all three of us was, it's, you know, it's about systems and and larger systems this year that are not working and that we're seeing, you know, relationships, whether it's top down bottoms up happening at the same time, whether it's realizing that systems are frail and need attention and or whether it's, you know, kind of changing our vocabulary from little things to big things and seeing how they connect. I feel like the last 20 months or the last year has put a sense of urgency in one of us. That is, we've always had, I think almost everyone in this field has a sense of urgency about impact. But I feel like it is much more pronounced. And the flavor that that I've been digging into. And I see it in the chat when we said, what are the most critical issues? And some people said impact measurement and measurements and people said accountability. I think we're in what I'm calling an impact accountability and management moment. I think we have, you know, impact investing, people are aware of it, people are aware of ESG people are interested in doing it. And we don't we no longer have to convince most businesses or most financial institutions that this is something that is real that is going to bite them if they don't pay attention that is that we're actually past that curve. What we are, though, is and maybe this relates to Tim's comment, we're in, you know, one of these great creative moments where accountability and standards and regulation are all being discussed at the same time. And it's quite dizzying. All of the different intermediaries and standards and sets and things that everyone's actually more confused than they were five years ago, where you could just kind of do your own thing. And it would be fine if you did it well, you could feel good. And I do think that, you know, the, you know, we know that the allocations of, for example, people, you know, putting money into ESG have doubled, you know, in the past year, since we were here before. And yet, our, as Monique was saying, our impact on the big sustainable development problems that we have health included are actually worse, right? So we are putting more effort, more money into our problems globally and getting less results. So something's wrong. And to me, the thing that's wrong is the norms about what we expect when somebody says they are investing for impact or ESG, are they're not, they're not strong enough to align with behavior that's actually making an impact. And that's why I think we all, I feel like this is the year of fixing our norms so that as we go forward, we are going forward in the right direction and not in the wrong direction. I would, to me, that's why Fran and Monique's work is so important. And so I'd love to turn it back to them to see what you think is the most kind of critical thing that we can leverage this year, this year of urgency. So Monique, back to you first. I mean, I obviously completely agree with what you just shared. And I think, you know, we're sort of in an impact on moment, as I like to call it. I mean, we are all governments are talking about the need for the actual outcomes to be achieved. Individual investors, people, we need the change, we need it better. And certainly the climate and the stewardship of folks who are most vulnerable, they cannot wait. We cannot wait. And so when we think about all of these things and getting out of the siloed practice, at least those of us in impact investing, we are connected. We see these interconnections in so many ways. And we certainly some of the work that Fran is doing, and of course, she can talk more about herself. We need to be at the tables where there's decisions are being made related to policy, the rules that might prevent us from even going further and being able to to live at our intentions as folks in the in the financial market of the part part of the economy. And also just beyond that, like as citizens, there is so much to potentially do with our voice and our vote, and who counts and who is left out matters, and who represents us matters. And I just want to bring up in this point of the conversation the census. And I think the census is such an important piece of how wealth gets distributed and support that comes from the government in the United States, that is tax dollars redistributed in other ways. And to the degree that we are not efficiently doing that. But we also have failed to count people properly such that their voices can be heard redistricting will affect the next 10 years. And when you change the lines based on flawed numbers, but we end up in a situation where folks are not going to get the resources that their communities demand and need. And we also won't get the right representation in our state and our cities and our federal government. And who is there advocating for these changes that we need now and being willing to work together to get the changes that are required for a functioning economy and our functioning domestically in the United States, but also the way that we show up in the world, whether we can be leaders in climate conversation or not, it's material and it matters. And suddenly, you know, we have data that we might not be able to rely on in the same way that we used to. And this, this is the gold standard of data about who's in our country and who gets a voice here. It's going to be affected for years to come because of the data from this past census. And I wish I could put some things in the chat. But for some reason, it's not letting me put some links, but we'll share the handicapped because you're the fastest chatter I've ever met. I'm the link person. So I can't, I can't put all of these links that I have accumulated, but don't worry, we'll send them to you after we'll share. You can send the links to Claire and Claire can hear them for you. Great. So I'll do that. So from the early numbers and some of them early modeling, black people have been undercounted by around two million, possibly more. Black children and other children and Latinx communities. While there are those data shows that there are many more Latinx people in this country than before, they are still undercounted. That's a problem. Native communities have been undercounted with this census. And when we think about what that ripple effect might mean for representation needed now more than ever in the seats of government and power and the dollars that will go to communities and be able to recover in this post COVID world. That's a problem. And we need to pay attention to that and make sure that folks get the support they need and how we can use other kinds of data in order to make sure that communities supported in this moment, because we know that in recovery, it can actually exacerbate inequalities and it can be folks who were already on the margins can be worse off and for longer. And so in this global recovery, how do we ensure that it's not worse for those who are host historically marginalized and who don't have their own representation to ensure that they get their piece of this trillions that the whole world will be a wash in in this recovery dollars. So that's something to pay attention to and make sure that you know, in this accountability conversation that this is part of it. And so Fran, I know that you also have some thoughts around the urgency. Yeah, we think a lot at the alliance about the magnitude. I would say traditionally in our field, we've said the magnitude of the global challenges cannot be addressed through government aid and philanthropy alone, and that we need the power of the markets, we need the power of the capital markets and private investment to drive the change. And while I still agree with that, what's a little bit embedded in that as a predisposition against government that the market can figure it out. And I think we know that the markets are not perfect. There's a kind of moral and practical and financial bankruptcy of neoliberalism. And so we have called on government to lead again. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about public policy, building on Monique's comments and and and Catherine's too. So we now have an administration that's about to focus on racial and economic equity. It's the core of their agenda in on day one President Biden issued an executive order calling on all of the federal agencies to advance racial equity and prioritize support for underserved groups. And we also know that there are some fantastic impact investing advocates and community investing practitioners embedded in the administration. So there are folks in government now who speak our language and can help us drive significant progress. Earlier today, I did a fireside chat with deputy secretary of commerce Don Graves, who is formerly head of corporate responsibility and community relations at Keybank. Kathy will remember that he was the Obama administration representative to the G7 social impact task force under the UK government. And he and his colleagues are hosting a convening of public and private sector leaders on equitable economic groups and addressing the racial wealth gap on November 9th. If anyone has missed the fireside chat, I urge you to go back and listen to it because the deputy secretary is an extraordinary person with an extraordinary journey and commitment to the kinds of values that we're talking about today. And if you're interested in live streaming the interagency convening on equitable economic growth, please reach out to the alliance. My colleague will get the contact in the chat, but it'll be a nearly full day of private sector and public sector folks on this topic of equitable economic growth. Monique talked about the trillions of dollars flowing and I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up the administration's priorities like hard infrastructure, built to build back better economic agenda. And the audience may or may not know that much of this will need to be accomplished through a congressional budget tool called reconciliation, which significantly limits what can be written into law. What does that mean? It means that the Biden-Harris administration will be looking for expertise during the implementation phase in terms of how to transform one line, two lines of statute into a fully-formed program. So we imagine there could be provisions included that are very relevant to our field that are, of course, it will all be broadly relevant to our society and our economy. But when I think about those of us of practice and best thing there will likely be appropriations for community development programs through HUD and other agencies, the Commerce Department's Economic Development Administration is likely to get more money on top of the $3 billion in grant capital that they already have. So just kind of call to the community to prepare to bring your expertise to the table to ensure to Monique's point that federal funds flow efficiently, inclusively, and equitably. Kathy talked a little bit also about the fact that we're in a regulatory moment around global regulatory moment in terms of ESG disclosure, shifting a little bit to stakeholder capitalism, the SEC, under chairman Gary Gensler will likely publish new climate and workforce disclosure requirements sometimes next year. They will be focused on those that are financially material. And we still would like to evolve to a place of stakeholder materiality, not to shareholder materiality and financial materiality. The Department of Labor issued a proposal last week in terms of fiduciary duty and retirement plans that allow us fiduciaries to consider or should consider economically relevant ESG factors like climate risk and workforce practices. And if those rules are finalized, it will be a major win for us. So all this to say that we are witnessing a very good support for our priorities among federal policymakers. And it's really our job to position the principles and practices and the capital of impact investing as a key piece of the equation for leaders, in particular this administration in Washington. So just to build on that, I'd like to transition to a discussion of what's going well in our field. So I'm wondering if, Moody, I can start with you. What is our field getting right? And I realize even to say field, I think what we're saying is that it's no longer a kind of we're not talking about a small pie piece of the entire market with impact investing, we're talking about all finance and the entire economy being an addressable market. But what is the field such as it is getting right? And what are some models you'd like to lift up for the group? I mean, it's a big question. And, you know, as soon as you say one thing, perhaps you'd be wrong. But I do think that at the top of top of my mind is the fact that there is significant innovation and creativity happening now and the way we structure everything from new funds that are coming out that are not just porting over what someone did 20 years ago and not rethinking it in any way. There's new products that are both for the retail market and for other specific markets, just, you know, even the evolution of natural asset companies. There are new structures that allow, you know, scalable impact to be achieved. And also some of the ideas that the impact investing community has incubated in the last decade plus are ready for scale like ready poised for this moment. And can we take these ideas to scale is really the challenge because we talked about the vast need right now. And there are some models that were made for this moment. Can we supercharge them and give them the support needed financial support specifically such that they can go forth in the climate markets to someone asked about that I think about Prime Coalition and some of the work that they've been doing to really kind of early stage companies that can, you know, do the work of actually making climate focused solutions possible at scale. Full cycle is out there thinking about infrastructure justice and some of these other folks. And so we are thinking about who has the ideas that are now proven ideas. They have a track record. They have not just formulated yesterday, but also we need to support some ideas that were just formulated yesterday. And I think that the world has changed and there's new solutions for this time that are different. And that might not have years or revenue under their belt, but need to be supportive right now because there are the solutions and there are folks out here starting to dabble and do that and new money for new ideas, I believe is beginning. We see folks like patients more involved at women of the world endowment thinking about gender inclusiveness and gender justice. Reaventures with my dear friend, Erica Seth Davies and reproductive health. There are folks who are have pioneered work in economic justice thinking about Rodney Foxworth with his reparative investing and what they're doing over it. Common future. And Vanessa Roanhorse. There are people who are rethinking and telling the truth in this moment. And I think that's partly what we're getting right. You know, the fact that we need to rethink if we are doing the same things that we did in 2019, we are literally just doing it wrong because the world has changed that dramatically. And if we are not interrogating what are our practices to your point earlier of norms? What makes sense for now? And it's different. It must be because now is different. And I think about the folks who are willing to tell the truth of that now yourselves, Kathy and Fran are among them certainly. And also that's what we're getting right. We have to say the whole truth. We cannot design solutions with all of the truth because then they're partial. And we wonder why they fail. But it's because when we said we were listening to communities, we weren't actually listening. And we weren't listening in ways that would make them comfortable and willing to tell the truth. And so when we think about truth in this moment and our ability to potentially listen now, that is what I think we might be getting right. If we actually were to do so because folks are willing to tell the truth now. And we have certainly some voices. Someone mentioned something about philanthropy in the chat. I think roulette and his ability to cut through the hype and to really talk about what's going wrong. And what are the criticisms and the tools we need now for philanthropy and the nonprofit world. And if we listen, folks are talking and we have the chance. And I think if we will get it right, if we actually listen to the truth tellers and be responsive and actually adapt our practices in this moment. So those are some of my thoughts on how we might be incubating some things and ideas and also being willing to listen now. Thank you, money. You talked about participatory models and lifted up common future and would love to riff on that a little bit as the future of investing in communities and a way to address the racial wealth gap. The Alliance authored a report. We'll put it in the chat called impact in place earlier this year that was commissioned by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and really sought to capture a snapshot of community, the community investing landscape, including emerging private sources of capital in response to the pandemic and economic crisis. Kathy talked at the start about the kind of inefficient capital flows. And one example that we examine are these participatory investment strategies as an emerging model for community wealth and power building. So I'm sure some of you have heard of the Ujima project, which is a democratically managed fund providing microloans to small business owners in Boston's community of color. They have driven to the point of democratizing access to community investing. They've driven down the investment model, the minimum quite low and there's voting process. highly democratic and bias actually toward the local community members. These models are typically small, they're hyper local and subsfield by design. But we see innovators like the Katali Foundation and the Glen Javier fund leveraging concepts like restorative economics, which was coined by Amaka Agbo of Katali fund to shift the investment paradigm and the traditional power dynamics entirely. And we feel like impact investors and all of us have a lot to learn about this kind of practice. Two folks authored a book, Meg Massey and Ben Robel called Letting Go, which looks at a number of case studies of both philanthropies and impact investors who have ceded decision making power to people with the lived experience of the problem that they're seeking to address. I also think of Adesina social capital, which is an investment and financial activism firm that connects the financial markets to social justice movements working with local social justice NGOs. And they're importantly, working with community groups to community source impact metrics that are very meaningful to the impacted groups, as you know, as you'd likely know, impact metrics are tend to be a multistakeholder affair, but they're set top down. And so what Adesina is doing is really taking the wisdom of workers and communities, figuring out what ESG metrics matter to workers and community members, and then using that as leverage with public company management. So I'm fascinated by this model, really interesting. And then one other thing in from the impact in place support, we also catalog some of the corporate commitments that were made to local economic development and racial equity. We saw a lot of flurry of them in 2020, including from major companies like Google, Twitter, Netflix and Paypal. A lot of that were depository assets from corporate treasuries going to black-owned banks, minority depository institutions. Some like Paypal actually directed part of their commitment, in this case, the $535 million commitment to invest in black and Latinx like venture firms. And what we really want to do is hold these new entrants accountable to their commitments and also to see how we can transform this interest from an incremental commitment to enduring change where corporates start to consider their impacts on all stakeholders, including but ultimately communities. So Kathy, I would love to pass it to you and hear a little bit about where you think the field is on track and some models that we can draw inspiration from. Sure. So I'm going to change the points I had thought about before after listening to both of you. I'm going to go up a level, I think, from a bunch of different small examples. But one of the things that I think that a lot of us have been involved in, but I see more and more that I think is totally a bright spot is the collaboration, the collaborative efforts that people are doing in partnership. It takes more time. It's slower. But we can do things at scale that way. And just to give you just a few examples, the Calis 2030 group, which is now a membership group that of institutions serving, you know, social entrepreneurship institutions serving at bottom of the pyramid and many other underserved groups is now speaking with one voice on a regular basis in different countries, which is amazing. The COVID Response Alliance that was created during COVID that has continued is now, I think, over 100 organizations that have partnered on different cross cutting initiatives that, you know, we just couldn't get done until people thought of themselves as part of this collective. And it's happening at the standards level, right? So within the impact management project structured network, there's a little bit of a handoff, but that structured network is going to continue under the OECD. And there's just there's just so much energy being put forward to take the things that are working and bump them up a level to a common good. And then the more specific example that I wanted to give, again, coming back to my theme of impact, accountability and management is that we just spent the last 18 months working with the UN around, you know, what are the common practices and best practices that people should be following as they measure and manage their own impact, either as enterprises or as funds. And so we were scouring to say, what are the bright spots? What are the things that people are doing particularly well that can become models for others? And we released last month a new training on Coursera. It's free. We've never released something like this before. You know, that was the result of this much work and this much time to allow anybody on the planet who wants to measure and manage their impact to learn from what other people have done already and to and to move forward faster, right? So now there's no it's frictionless. There's no barrier. You can log on to our site. It's called impact, measurement and management for the SDGs. It's on Coursera. Perhaps Kerry can put the link but to really say, you know, we all need to get better at this. We're all on a journey and, you know, the future of the urgency depends on it. So very excited about that and continuing to learn as we go. So maybe I can transition now to kind of what comes next. What, you know, we friend and I always get a little walked out at this part of the conversation. I'm like, what do you think is going to happen next year? Like, we don't know and nobody ever remembers. So it's OK. Nobody ever comes back to use it. So if I could ask you in two minutes or less because we're starting to run out of time, Monique first, what is the most important thing for our field, you know, with that blurry definition as a whole to get right in the next year? For me, I have two things. Power and understanding how we show up, how we just redistribute it, how it shows up in our work and how we rethink power, and that is inclusive of our diversity in a specific way and also understanding that risk is perception and it's cultural. And what we say is risky is to expose as our own indoctrination to the norm's point earlier. So we need to really think about who is risky, who is labeled risky without with a knee-jerk reaction that's emotional for us. And it's it's a risk is an emotional response. And so if we can understand that, that is not sort of an independent thought that's math driven only, but we are who make the algorithms. So your own biases are just built right into the math. And so if we were to think about power differently and think about the fact that risk is not an independent verifiable variable is it's you and it's what you think and how you were raised and what you were told is risk. I think if we get that right, we'll do a lot of things differently, including related to climate and inclusivity and thinking about marginalized communities and our long term impact. Well, you're you're winning the chat with applause for that week. I'm going to be really brief. I had a whole bunch of points, but I'm going to do one and then we can always come back if you want to mine. Mine really is if you're, you know, one of my big lessons from doing this research and training that we created around impact management is that to manage is not to collect data and report on it. To manage is to decide what your goal is and then judge yourself against that goal and learn what actually happened and why for the stakeholders or the planet that you are trying to impact. What what can you do better? What can you do to optimize or improve that impact? That is what we all actually need to get really good at and we need to do it really well. To you, Fran. Thank you both. Yeah, two things on my end as well. One is we it feels like we're in this critical moment toward the transition to stakeholder capitalism. We have the largest asset owners in the world and the largest asset managers in the world acknowledging the materiality of systemic risk and, you know, various ESG factors. We have corporations who are making diversity, equity and inclusion commitments, but also increasingly looking at how it must be core to their business. It already is for their business but they're acknowledging it. And then we have this global regulatory moment with required that would require mandated ESG disclosure. And I agree with Kathy like that is just the first step. But it's the building block upon which fiduciary duty is built, stakeholder materiality is built. So this is a moment to push. This is a moment in some ways we've been waiting for for decades in our field and much longer as a society. And the second is just in praise of field building. The work that Monique and her team do at TIP. The work that Kathy and her team do at case at Duke in the case like three initiative, the work that the gym does mission investors exchange does all of these field building functions represent field infrastructure that we all use to flow capital for impact. I don't care if you're a climate investor or if you're an affordable housing or an ESG investor. And it's really a comment upon everyone who benefits from this field infrastructure and you all do and we all do from whether an asset owner whether asset manager or service provider, you need to fund the rails you ride on. That could be through joining a membership group that supports the field. It could be you know, making a grant to TIP or making a grant to data platforms and impact investing policy advocates. But our work will only be continue to become mainstream with impact integrity if we build the infrastructure to scale along with it. Love it. So Monique you wrap us up. Yes. I can't believe this is like literally the fastest hour of my life. But as it always is. Well, maybe that's why it wasn't actually lower. So I just want to pose to everyone in the chat and thank you so much for your engagement. Really the question that I close my podcast with each each of my guests. And I'm going to pose the question to you, Kathy and Fran. And to everyone on the chat please also write in your response. As we think about this moment and the urgency that we've just talked about and the need to rethink what do we need to do in this moment to be good ancestors? And I'll let each of you respond in turn and I'll put my response also at the end. But I think that's also how we create the bright line and do what matters. Kathy, I'll ask you first. Oh, a nice heavy a nice light question for the end. In 30 seconds or less. Really, I mean, this is what I do every day, right? I believe my theory of change is about helping people understand where they can put their energy that is aligned with their values and the people that are attracted to work with me on that share my values, which is around equity and sustainability and saving the planet quick because we do not have a lot of time. So I'm just feeling really, really urgent about that. And I know it's a long term mindset and career and energy thing. But, you know, what I started to do when I started teaching over 20 years ago and the tiny field that this was then versus what this has become is hugely encouraging. Thank you. I want to be snappy about it because we're at time. So I think one of the most impactful things our field can do for future generations is to create a more equitable and accountable economic system. We're still making the case for long termism, but folks are catching on. We have made some progress towards stakeholder capitalism and we need to continue to push there, but we can't stop there. We need to make progress towards stakeholder capitalism as a way station for further transformation and a future where power is not only shared among stakeholders, but transferred to those who have historically been shut out of decision making, shut out of power, shut out of capital accumulation and to Monique's point where their voice has not been elevated. So I feel an urgency to do the work with you all now and to grow the political, social and financial will to reimagine the system wholesale. I totally agree with both of you. And for me, I just distill it into needing a new imagination of what's possible in our ability to make justice normal. So I put in the chat or Claire did for me new thing that I'm launching with some friends called make justice normal. That's simply, I think, one of the most important things we can do for our, my son, his children, his children's children, all of us for humanity is make justice normal in our work. So with that, I will close. Thank you all for attending and we didn't get your responses. So feel free to ping me directly later and see you again next year.