 Welcome back to episode number 34 of the Red Man Group Live, brought to you in Orlando, Florida via 21 Studios. This is a awesome little setup we have today, isn't it gentlemen? Oh yeah. Fantastic. So we just finished up the 21 convention, four days of awesomeness. If you guys missed out, we hope to see you next year. It's a great event for men, help you become a better version of yourself and really up your game in life. So let me introduce the panel that we have today. We're doing three broadcasts. This is the first of three. They're going to run for about 90 minutes. We're going to move into the standard Q&A halfway through. We have a live audience right now today who bought into the VIP package. So they're here with us sitting out front. So we'll have a mic going around. We won't have a call in segment, but you can ask questions in the chat or if you're so inclined you can donate a super chat, which is always appreciated. I'll start from my left over here. This is Dr. Doc Smith, docsmith.co, clinical psychologist from Denver, Colorado. One of the speakers this year, tactical guide to women is his book. I've recommended it a number of times. It's on my list of top seven books you guys want to check out. Ryan Stone of the Mary Red Pill. Also a speaker this year at the 21 convention. Smashing guy and always the best dressed on the panel. To my left, I've got socrates of manning up smart. He's been here from the get go from the ground of the 21 studios set up and he's a great friend to Anthony and to all the men on this panel. We're grateful to see him again for another year. To my right, we've got Donovan Sharp of the Sharp Reality. You guys should all be familiar with him. He's a regular panelist on the Red Man Group. We've got Hunter Drew after that from the family alpha. What's the website? The family alpha.com. Hunter's a really cool guy. Of course, second year back, he did his talk again. He's a guy that's going to hold you accountable. Of course, to the far right, we've got the Godfather Red Pill, Rolo Tomasi of the Rational Male Blog. Gentlemen, I introduce to you the Avengers of the Red Pill. Yes. Rather than what we've been up to, because I think everybody knows what we've been up to, we've been here at the conference in Orlando, let's catch up on what our experience has been like attending and talking to a lot of the attendees. I know a lot of us are kind of low on vocal effort today. My eyes are a little cooked from staring at these bright lights. What's your experience like? Do you want to start? Well, I'm glad we're doing this right now because I think this sort of personalizes the whole experience of the 21 convention. We've finally become the Red Pill Summit that I knew that this whole thing could be. And with the selection of speakers this year is just phenomenal. Some of these guys I'm meeting for the first time who I've known since, gosh, maybe 10 or 12 years ago. Like Ed Latimore was here, hanging out with Ed was great. Jack Murphy, who I have known since, gosh, probably 2012, maybe, and hanging out with him and just sort of getting to know guys that I know already but actually becoming face-to-face friends with these guys, that's an incredible experience. And then just the people. I mean, it's all about guys coming to this convention and wanting to be a better version of themselves like you're saying. But it gets to hear everybody's individual stories. It's like a lot of these guys follow me on Twitter or read my books or whatever. It's one thing to get an email and say, hey, you saved my life, but it's another thing to have somebody come up to you and say, hey, like last night I had a couple come up to me and say we flew out here, it's an older couple. We flew out here just to say thank you for giving us our son back. And it was like an older married couple, like 70, some odd years old, and they caught me out in the valet out there. I mean that was like, I tweeted this out last night too and I said that's just one of many experiences. But when you're typing stuff and you're just in your own little world and it's very introverted and you're in your studio and you're working and stuff and it seems like a big extra version and you don't really understand the interactions that you're having and the lives that you're affecting and this is a really good venue for that. So for me it's been kind of, it's been really personal for me. I mean this year's been very personal for me. I mean what we did last year as well. And this year it's been personalized quite a bit and it's coming into its own I think. I'd love to hear the personal stories. We've all been approached and spoken to by people that are fans of our work individually and collectively, but I'd love to hear like a quick soundbite if everybody's got one. Yeah, well my voice is that. No, this year it's incredible. This is my second time speaking here and it's like everything. Every standard was raised from the production, the entire crew that's been here, but also the attendees. The first year it seemed like everybody had come up to you and they tried to get everything out. There's just the word vomit, their whole life story in those 30 seconds. What do you think? And this year the guys are coming, they're very focused. They're like, look I'm working on this. What do you think about that? And I'm listening to them talk to the other speakers and there's much more, hey here's a real specific problem. Let's work on a specific answer to that. And it seems as though the content that's going out is really hitting all those different messages and you're talking about the soundbites when we're out there walking the streets and just having dinner with these guys and they're opening up, they're realizing like this is what I need. And one of the guys said this is what I'm trying to form, this is what I'm trying to find. Being able to sit down, have a discussion that goes beyond what's on the news today or beyond what's the new TV show. Let's go a little bit deeper, let's peel back that onion to where when you cut an onion that first layer doesn't get you, it's when you go to that third or fourth you're like, oh man, that's some deep shit. So it's great to see the guys go into that level and being able to get that out of this, you know, taking home. Yeah. Donovan? Yeah, the convention has been great for me. I've never been in a situation where, you know, people come up and talk to me where they know who I was but I didn't know who they were. And it's kind of surreal, you know, I mean, it's one thing to have your own show and to do the Red Man group every Saturday but to actually meet some of the people that you're helping, you know, some of the people that you're actually communicating with on a daily and weekly basis. There's something to be said about that, to be able to see us and touch us and listen to everyone and just like Hunter said, just to be able to hear the stories, you know, guys come to me all the time, you know, Donovan, you know, your story resonated with me, you know, I too made the same mistakes. I think something else that's really important is the fact that I think we all acknowledge that we're all far from perfect. I mean, Rolo's the godfather. He's probably... I'm not perfect. He's the godfather, Donovan. But again, we're all, we all have our faults, we all have our frailties, we all have our stories. And at the end of the day, there's really nothing special about any of us only that we made the decision to be who we are. So if anyone's watching, you know, we're not special. You know, yeah, we're the Avengers but with the quote-unquote Avengers. But it's only because we decided... We didn't make that up, somebody else. Yeah. We need to come up with a short video like Marvel does, I don't know. Assemble. Anyway. You roll from the event and kind of slash it together. If you decide to be... If you decide to be the man that you want to be, this is obviously the first step, but you have to take that first step. The only difference between us up here and you guys watching is our decision. That's it. Yeah, and you know, for me, it's just bonkers because it's like, you know, you can put all kinds of content, you know, throughout the year. I know some guys here are writers, others talk to cameras, you know, I'm the guy that talks to a camera and it's like, you don't have the direct interaction. So when you come down to a place like this and people say, you know, I'm here because of you, you know, and you put this little dent in my universe, but there was two guys that really, like, pulled on my heartstrings big time. There was one guy that was a plastic surgeon who does reconstruction on, you know, just people that have been injured and there was a couple of times here at the year where he's had guys that have held a gun up to their chin and they did it wrong and they blew their face off and out. And he was showing me pictures and, you know, these were guys that were, you know, in their 40s, you know, they've gone through the divorce machine, they had an awful experience and they just wanted to check out and they did it wrong and he's got to fix their face and then, you know, within the same night there was another dude that came up to me and said, you know, thank you because I had the gun in my mouth and it was because of a video that you put out on surviving divorce and understanding that there's an other side to that and I took it out of my mouth and put it down. So it's big. I mean, it's really nice to see that you have an impact on people's lives when they approach you and they shake your hand and they have that, like, kind of tear kind of running, you know, in their eye and it's about to drop, it's massive. So, Salk? Yeah, I can echo the same things. But what I'm thoroughly kind of impressed with is having done this probably five or six times now, seeing the return attendees coming back, whether it was last year and seeing the massive improvements that they're seeing in their lives, but the significant ones are the ones that are coming back two years later, three years later and seeing how much further that convention back in, you know, 2012 or 2014 or whatever it was has impacted their lives up to this point. You're seeing a much longer change in their life and life trajectory as far as that impact and how they carried that and felt the need to come back again to recharge, resharpen the acts and to carry themselves forward even more and what they're anticipating coming off this convention going forward is a lot more than what they had anticipated even with the first one they attended to. So, it really is a springboard for life and for projecting your life forward and where you want that to go. So, it's really, really cool to see how that's impacted other people. Yeah, solid. Ryan? So, the weird thing, first off, I didn't smoke or drink last night. I don't know why I feel hungover, but whatever. So, for the conference altogether, it was kind of cool. You gave me all the points and asked, did I think anything wasn't up to snuff or wasn't a 10 out of 10? I'd say everything here is pretty bang-on, not to do improve. Now, having said that, when you take the whole event, I find us up here speaking to be the least valuable part of that. It's the actin' on verb, action's not speaking. It's the after-party stuff. It's the fact that at breakfast you can come down and it's kind of like being in a small town and go, oh, hey, Tanner, how's it going? And you sit down and have some breakfast. Yeah, come on, join. And it's kind of just sitting there and chilling with a bunch of guys talking about your day or in the evenings there. I mean, we had one where it was a bar-hopping night and it was a bunch of guys going out. If anybody here has been part of a rugby team or any kind of sports team and you have your pub crawls, it's pretty much like that. So, maybe some guy who's never had that in his life gets to experience that firsthand so he sees what it's like. So, he takes it back to his buddies. They come there and they have fun like guys usually do. And I was mentioning it to you earlier. Like the house party. It's just such a simple thing. Come over to my house, have some drinks. I'm sure we could have it here in like a conference room which would be kind of stale and like a networking event. Instead, it's just like every house party I've been to. There's 20 guys and like 19 of them are in the kitchen hanging around. Yeah, it was super intimate. Socrates invited us all to his house. He opened up his home to us. So if you can imagine 125 guys in your house and you being the guy who's never been to a party like that walking in and seeing a house party raging knowing you're welcome and accepted and being able to throw yourself in the middle of that I think is terribly powerful for a lot of guys. Yeah, it was a beautiful space too. Like one of the things that I thought was great was his daughter was just kind of like running around and just being playful in a pretty little dress sort of thing too. All the guys, she's flirting with all the guys and they're picking everything up. And to sit down and say, yeah, you got to make the world a better place with all, you know, really good men and this is how you get it because eventually I'm going to throw her out into the world and I want to make sure that it's going to be receptive to her and it starts at home. Yeah, so that's the part I found the best the actual, the actions part. So even here we're saying, you know, actions over words but we're up here given an hour long speech there's still actions afterwards and I think that's the part that I enjoyed the most and I think others will probably glean the most value from. Yeah, Dr. Smith. Well, yeah, somebody who's passing through and hopefully get to pass through again I was shocked at what I saw this weekend all the presenters and all of the attendees attendees that I talked to just squared away solid guys, I've never seen a group of guys like this before all in one place, you know, motivated out there making things happen in the world coming here to find out how to make their relationships work better how to make their lives work better and I just feel privileged that I got to be a little part of that and meet some of these guys that showed up to this pretty amazing event. All right, so today's topic is slated to be on Red Hill Rage it is a stage that a lot of men kind of go through and you know somebody can correct me if they've got a different interpretation but essentially most men are led to like the awakening through trauma sometimes it's going through the divorce machine sometimes it's heartbreak it's oneitis for a girl that they want back that they're pining for it's usually trauma that leads men to search for information that kind of helps them reconcile that and come to an understanding men are deductive, rational reasoning being so that's usually what they go looking for and then what tends to end up happening is they'll take that proverbial Red Pill and then they'll get mad I didn't have that experience like my awakening was kind of like it was long overdue and it was on the recommendation of reading Rolo's first book and it was just like, oh, okay, that makes sense and it was actually a calming effect for me but if I missed any of that from your experience coming on Red Pill Rage I'd love to hear you kind of touch up on it but then I want to throw it over to Doc Smith because he's a clinical guy, right? Yeah, I'm always interested in knowing Doc Smith's going to talk about stuff because he's got that clinical background it's like I hope I'm hitting the right things because when I talk about when I talk about like the five stages of unplugging it's really the stages of grief and all I did was take that when you're dealing with death pretty much you know, you go through, I forget the stages it's like, you know, anger, denial negotiation negotiation and acceptance and that kind of stuff and the reason I went to that to sort of claim that as the five stages of unplugging is because your old self is literally dying like your old beta way is the way I mean, you can't unsee what you've seen and they always say once you unplug there's no going back, right? and so even if you go into complete denial you're still seeing things that's going on around you in your periphery and you still see things you know, in your social circles political, whatever, you know we're all so interconnected today it's almost impossible not to see something that aligns with what it is that we were we talk about when we talk about red pill awareness it's so much bigger than just like oh, I learned how to deal with girls no, it's a lot bigger than that and so part of that is anger and we, you know it's kind of been euphemized, I guess, is that the term it's euphemism to say a red pill rage or something like that and I think that that gets sort of taken out of context because when I say, you know, guys guys get angry as part of those stages of grief they're not getting angry at women I mean some guys do, they stay and they kind of fester in that one stage but most guys come out of that and realize that they can't live like that the whole time and they kind of move on to acceptance and then actually finding hope within that I've got a great post called New Hope where I say, you know, you're never going to be able to satisfy those blue pill ideals and goals with red pill awareness what the good news is is that in that red pill paradigm you can build a new life, you can build new hope you can have new ideals that are based on a a more realistic way of seeing the world when it comes to intersexual dynamics and then you can build from there and I think it's even more hopeful because you have a playbook at least you have some kind of map to show you what's going on and what your old part of it was but that rage or that anger that everybody loves to harp on all the time, that anger really is that anger at oneself and I say that because it's an anger at having wasted so much time so when a guy gets to be about 30 I'm dealing with guys and Dr. Sean knows what I'm talking about here I'm dealing with guys who are in their 70s and they're just waking up they're what we call awakened while married and and so imagine you're 70 years old and you're waking up to red pill awareness and you're becoming you're just you're shocked I almost think it's almost unfair to unplug somebody once they get past a certain age because they can't deal with it and so there is that anger part and some guys yes they do get stuck in that because they can't figure out how to cross over from those blue pill dreams and ideals into a more productive red pill paradigm because they're looking back at their lives going I can't believe I married so and so when I should have known better and so they're not angry at women they're angry at maybe they're angry at the system they're angry at the lies and then they're angry at themselves for not having seen it or for wasting so much time and so yeah you're going to get angry and that's going to be a phase so what you do with that and I'm not a proponent for saying oh we can all just be content with what we have I don't think human beings are content at all I think we're the state of humanity is being discontent so even when we get the greatest achievement you know when you get that degree or whatever it is that you've been working for for so long there's always something else that's after that even Jack Donovan Jack Donovan was talking about that in his speech where it's like once you get to one level there's always something else that's going it's like the Aurora Boris or whatever you know the snake eating its tail and you're there's always something else it's like you know you're not just trying to get to the next weekend there's something else there's always something going I think that's really kind of a statement on humanity and so when guys look back on that wasted time then they get upset they get really pissed off and I talked to several you know people are men at this conference I was angry for a long time and then I got your book and then I understand how I can build with that you agree with me for not giving them this 12-step perspective or some sort of formula the formula is unique to each and every one of you all I do is give you the tools you got to go take that and build something from the tools that I give you and some guys are better at that than others is there any like experiences you guys have had where you're talking to guys and like the rage is not tied into you know past relationships with like an ex-wife or a girlfriend or a heartbreak or one-itis like me I'm the only guy I think I'm one of the few guys here who wasn't red-pilled by a woman from the military but I mean I had one-itis same as anybody else it's just instead of with a set of tits it had a bayonet so whatever so Sean like when it comes to your practice I mean I mean it's for the most part it's like you know guys failing to have their ego investments in the opposite sex men I mean like we're told from a very small age you know women are sugar and spice and all things nice and they can't possibly do anything that might violate that like what's that been like for you in your practice since you kind of started getting into the community and paying attention to the sorts of things that we chat about well I'm meeting a lot more guys that are facing these kind of questions like the world isn't what I thought it was with women and in my career yeah like a safe place I call it safe world theory and I don't know if I made that up I don't think I made that up but there's this idea in psychology that most people walk around in the world with this false belief that the world is a safe place and that they're not going to get in a car accident they're not going to get cancer the grid's not going to go down all the terrible things that can happen to you we don't we don't think about them typically until they start to happen to us and you know psychologists are a little different I'll talk about psychologists for a minute psychologists are kind of fascinating because they're good people love psychologists more than probably most other careers we're very red-pilled about life in general like because of the things that we see we're very aware that terrible things could happen to us I go through the world with a smile on my face I'm a pretty relaxed guy but I know that I could have cancer in my body right now I know that my wife could be at home with Chad right now I don't think she is but it could happen and the reason I know these things is because I see it all the time so when you become a psychologist you walk around with your blinders get ripped off and mine were ripped off pretty young which is probably why I think I became a psychologist but there's this interesting thing in my career where gender dynamics they're not what most of us think they are I thought everybody up here knows I've been talking about that a lot this week in gender dynamics and psychologists have kind of a blind spot about that they're very naive about certain aspects of gender dynamics and it's because of the questions that we look at are all sort of female-centric we assume that relationships work the way we've been taught this what you call blue-pill paradigm about gender dynamics whereas psychologists are very realistic about most of the things that can happen to you in life they're unrealistic about some of the problems that men face when men come through the door and they've been through the family court meat grinder and if you don't have the right psychologist or therapist if you're trying to get through that and you enlist somebody there's a really good chance you're going to come across somebody who doesn't know what the male experience of that is so I'm losing track of your question but my point is that there's a what is the experience of dealing with guys who are going through this from a clinical perspective well people come through my door from all kind of perspectives who've discovered that the world is a dangerous and unfair place and this is one aspect of it and so one of the fascinating questions is what's the difference between a guy who can go through the family meat grinder and just bounce right back and a guy who gets really knocked off his pins and I don't think it's a question of strength or weakness but there is an interesting question I'm going to stop talking now do you think it's tied into dealing with rejection do you think like a guy that's more able to deal with rejection in his life can pop back up quicker versus the guy that gets knocked down and can't get back up or has a hard time getting back up I think you're talking about coping skills there temperament and coping skills so temperament is what you're born with coping skills is what you learn as you go along and some guys based on their upbringing for some guys that's the end of the world that represents some kind of massive rejection but then there's also temperament just how you're wired anxiety wise some people some human beings are more equipped to just bounce back when bad things happen to them there's a great book out there it's called The Survivor Personality and it's by Al Siebert he looks at the difference between people who go through horrible things talking like concentration camps where they get named for life and he looks at this question what's the difference between somebody who walks it off and what's the difference between somebody who really gets sucked into it they become alcoholic, they become depressed they go down a really dark path and the first thing that he writes about and the most important rule is an acceptance that the world is an unfair place and being okay with that and then if you want to take it one step further you can say that the world is an unfair place because every time something unfair happens to me I have the opportunity to get a little bit stronger yeah, a hint of fragility, right? I'll jump in really quick I've actually seen a number of guys who have approached red pill awareness not from a standpoint of trauma or breakup or relationship wise it's looking at culture at large and going with this notion of feminism and equality and kind of believing that blue pill kind of wisdom and then applying it to reality and realizing that there's a massive disparity between what's being sold and then what is and then in reflection of that when you talk about gender politics and identity and culture and politics is that when it becomes gender specific they start to take a look at it and when that becomes aware they start going down that rabbit hole and the further away they get it's appropriate to get upset when you see an injustice and then when one's aimed at you it's empathetic to point to somebody and say this is red pill rage yet at the same time women wearing pussy hats screaming yelling and flopping around and full rage that's self-actualization that's justified and coming from the most empathetic sex supposedly I find that terribly unempathetic and so I've seen that and of course when you compound that with you know, hurt and trauma and going through a custody case with children it is going to become even more disparaging and a lot of times I think what this rage is is justifiable rage and anger and hurt and harm being expressed and it's terribly in it that anger is a legitimate response in the face of injustice so it's okay to get angry it's just what are you going to do with that anger social aspect maybe Sean can back me up on this I believe it's Evo Psych or it's what's called the male anger bias and what that means is that in our evolutionary past it it served the survival function to presume that a male was angry at you and it was like airing on the side of safety so anything that looks like male anger it's that response and that's part of our mental firm where that's one of the reasons why women see they misinterpret anger are you saying that women are predisposed to seeing men as angry? yes, well women and children as well too because it served a survival function in our past to presume that a male was going to be angry no matter what that's actually an interesting statement because I think if we put it out to the panel did every guy think that their father was angry than their mother growing up? like he was always the authority like oh shit dad's home oh crap I better clean up whatever I was supposed to do there's always going to be that male anger bias and what happens is when feminism and the feminine imperative takes that and they run with it and they say this is how they characterize male anger as being destructive and being satianistic and being evil but then when a woman is angry they get that transformative they say well it's something that women don't do naturally and it's great that they're embracing their anger because you need to get angry because if you're not outraged then you're not paying attention that trope it's like how they're angry so they can feel something yeah exactly and it's like they have some sort of justification for anger and okay I mean I can understand if you're dealing with an inherently ingest system or an ingest circumstance and you get angry great okay your anger is more legitimate than my anger just because well it's the thing too because it has a point like if you drop a hammer on your foot you get pain but you don't get anger there's a social thing if somebody drops it on your foot then you're angry because this guy I have perceived an injustice that this guy put on me and that's the anger part for guys and sure it may not have been intentional and I think that's where you kind of like you blame people but ultimately blame yourself for buying it because everybody tells you all these things because they believe in them even though they're not true and so you get angry over that because this guy screwed me over they call that the Disney fantasy and so once you get past that and you realize people just don't know any better I find that's where the anger kind of dissipates and then you take it to motivation and I think to add to what Ryan is talking about I think the anger phase in terms of of the red pill awakening I think it's the most dangerous phase not for fear of a guy you know shooting up a school or shooting up a shopping mall but anger a lot of guys never make it out of the anger phase a lot of guys stay angry and they end up in the basement you know living with their mommy we all know the archetype lives with his mom has a neck beard you know she lives with me right exactly but men who get stuck in the anger phase become what we call incels or I think as we sort of loosely define them as low-level megtals they've sworn off all they don't want anything to do with women outside of just work they don't want any sort of romantic relationship with them they don't want to pursue one night stands don't even think about marriage and they all come with the same rhetoric you know all this other kind of stuff the juice isn't worth the squeeze exactly but I think it's exactly what Ryan says as soon as you figure out like I was angry with my parents for a long time because we all are right but when you have that awakening and you realize you know what wait a minute parents are people too that's when you begin to realize that parents are fallible and the people who told us they gave us this Disney rom-com fantasy they believed it too even though it wasn't working out they believed it too so only then when you figure out that they didn't purposely they didn't sell you a bad bill of goods on purpose they did it because they thought what they were doing was right only then when you realize that they didn't do it on purpose that's when just like Ryan said the anger starts to dissipate and then you can start to move forward and grow it's the most dangerous it's also the most necessary optimism always bringing out let's go get it guys but it's absolutely necessary to go through that sometimes you should be angry like your guys are saying you can't just send energy into the world you're just raging you gotta channel it alright I'm pissed off that sucks but hey you can't go back to how the world was it's not gonna be what you want it to be it is what it is just embrace that and go forward everybody used to be somebody you start telling the stories of back in my day I was a high school football stud but right now you're 45 you haven't lifted a weight you know what's going on now like who are you today and you've got a channel like just because you had your glory days you still are here you can use that you know take off the blinders take off your Disney the Disney story that you're trying to have going on you've got to embrace how life is how reality is you've got to use that anger that you know it might fucking suck it hurts but use that to go forward you know use it as fuel as opposed to anger so I think that's an interesting point because there's this thought in evolutionary psychology that depression serves a serves an adaptive purpose that when something happens to you in the world that one of the things we are predisposed to do is slow ourselves down so something bad happens we get depressed meaning we slow ourselves down we retreat we go back to the cave go back to the house whatever it is and that keeps us from re-injuring ourselves this is the thought you know it's theoretical but that that act of getting depressed and retreating serves the purpose of keeping us from going back out and doing the same thing that we just did and getting hurt again because we slow down the process and we internalize and so I wonder if there's something analogous with this red pill raise that we're discussing here where a guy retreats in the basement he gets mad and what sits behind that that anger is being pretty depressed that this world isn't what I thought it was so you get depressed you go through that first necessary stage of slowing down not going out re-injuring yourself but then with any kind of anxiety disorder depression the mistake is then not moving past it which I think is what essentially what you're saying is alright you had your depression you had your anxiety you had your red pill rage whatever it was now you got to start writing a story about what just happened so that you can go back out into the world and engage in the world and be happy about it with this new reality and women will try to disarm men by attempting to shame you with the question who hurt you right oh no I'm not angry nobody hurt me no yeah I am pissed off and yeah I've been hurt by multiple women and this is it's as though they see the blinders coming off of men and they're doing their level best to make sure the blinders stay back on so what they do is they shame us into calling they shame us by calling us angry and bitter and being bitter you can call it whatever you want but being bitter to me is an unwelcome by-product of a hard lesson learned and you know we talk about you put your hand on the stove you know you get a burnt you're not gonna put your hand on this on on the stove again that's I mean it's it's a pretty good analogy but it's not really accurate because there is no benefit to putting your hand on the stove nobody's gonna put their hand on the stove the reason why we pursue relationships with women for all of the risks is because there are some benefits a lot of guys like to liken relationships to Russian roulette well why would you play Russian roulette if you win you live that status quo but if you have a successful relationship with a woman you get regular sex you get kindness femininity deference etc etc so I think when women particularly feminists you know promiscuous women I guess to clean it up I think the reason why they try to shame us is because they don't want us to see what's really going on they want to continue to have the tremendous upper hand that they have in terms of the sexual dynamics between men and women and guys like us we're not here for that that's why I say you're not bitter say that again you have a fragile ego who hurt you that's the other one you know what I want to do guys because we're gonna start taking questions in about 15 minutes we're running these for about 90 minutes just to kind of keep us on track before we start taking questions I'm gonna assume one of the biggest questions how do you deal with red pill rage so it's not really my wheelhouse I kind of talk about a lot of other things and my advice in that area probably isn't as useful as some of the guys on the panel so I want to throw it out there to you guys whoever wants to hop in first how would you tell a guy to deal with red pill rage well first of all understand what you think is red pill rage might not necessarily be red pill rage it might be what I'm telling you I constantly get this from I constantly get this from feminists or from you know female critics are saying you guys are just a bunch of angry young angry young men angry old men do I look angry to you but see it's this idea that whatever doesn't fit in their ideological compartment that's got to be anger or if they disagree you can be as objective and as honest and you can be as tight with your citing sources and you can say I've done this hundreds of times with my articles people will say well you only wrote that because you're bitter and you're angry or I get women who will say you have a good message but if you would just change the tone oh god and I'm like it's not the tone that is upsetting you it's the information that is upsetting you that I said something in a particular way what is there complaint about the tone well it's usually like if I'm talking about something I said I'm talking about something scientific I'm talking about like hypergamy or something like that then they'll say you know you would have a lot more you would have a lot more women would be on board with what you're saying if you would just soften your approach exactly I take a pretty clinical approach when I'm writing things surgical so I don't know how much more you know how much more softening of the message that I can get without that then I came to the realization that it's not how I'm saying something it's what I'm saying because it grates against that and so the same thing is true for these guys from real social dynamics they're constantly coming and saying oh what you say is true it's angry it's truthful anger and it's like every damn one of these sons of bitches is out there right now saying go ahead and read rollo forget about it afterwards because it's kind of cynical it's kind of angry it's no it's not it rubs you the wrong way because it doesn't fit in with your ego investments it shatters it's the catalyst for people to shatter their blue pill illusions and if your income depends on men having those illusions then yeah you've got to find some way to demonize that and so it's not the information anymore it's how the information was delivered so I think a lot of guys get confused and they think I'm in this red pill rage and I got you know I'm living in my mom's basement and the worst of the worst when it comes to that but are they doing that because they're genuinely angry at women are they doing that because they're angry at themselves what are you angry for it's the whole time is it like a loss of what we call it sunken cost is it because you know that what it is I think identifying what you're angry about is probably the first step and then it's and then moving past that because there's a lot of other steps in in you know the stages of unplugging totally yeah and what and what you know to Sean's question I think that you know the best way to distill it is like you know a lot of these people that like question it or they'll try to criticize it and tear it apart it's like you know the true sounds like hate to people that hate the true sort of thing yes violates you know what they believe in then they're going to try to poke at it like that if I can make a sports reference here with regards to women telling role hey you would have a lot more women following you if you I like in this to the LeBron James thing remember back in 2010 he was a free agent he sits down I'm going to take my talents to South Beach everybody in Cleveland burned his jersey blah blah blah and of course they're doing the exit interviews from I guess the tire fires that were going on in downtown Cleveland and they're like well why are you upset that level it's not that LeBron James left it's how he did it no it's that he did it check this out I have never ever heard a man tell me you know what Alicia broke up with me yesterday but she handled it the right way you know I'm okay with that you know she handled it great and you know even though she cheated on me she was real about it I'm totally okay with her break no you're not you are pissed off it doesn't matter it doesn't matter how much you soften the truth it's going to piss people off that it applies to that's all there is to it women are upset with this because again Rollo takes the surgical approach and subconsciously women think to themselves holy shit this guy's right the jig is up what can we do to disprove this guy and so they they tried to disarm Rollo by saying well you know you'd have women following you if you soften the message we ain't softening shit man like it is what it is we're not looking to help not gonna say help but I mean like we're not looking to gain a mass of women and followers you know we're looking to just have open conversations that men want to have and need to have that will help them up their you know game in life you know help them become better version themselves to be more successful to you know live in a more fulfilled way I think that's the beauty of this convention is we were talking about families you know was the dad the angry one that came back you're damn right if I go home you know I'm more angry than my wife there's no there's no blend of that that's absolutely true a lot of dads though don't know how to they don't know how to process their own anger they don't know how to channel that so the kids don't they never teach their sons hey here's how you channel this so when they come to this they're like oh shit it's okay to be mad and I can just push that you know to go forward you know a lot of people are mad about we were talking about wasted time you know and I'm always telling guys yeah everybody wants to go back to their week saw itself and just smack on the face like man but you can't do that that's not an option you can go forward so you're gonna spend your energy saying I wish things were different or you can spend your energy saying I'm gonna go forward and make sure that doesn't happen again you know I'm not gonna let that happen to me again and then when you look at positive masculinity you know I'm really glad you took that approach with the family because I think that is absolutely necessary we have men who don't know how to be a man themselves trying to teach another man who's coming up a little version you just can't do it you know they need that energy and that's and that's when you get the next Nicholas Cruz that's when you get the next school shoot exactly that's been removed from that that that you know that kicking the ass that that you know that here's how you deal with anger and how to how do you know how does a feminine primary society teach boys to process that like girls like to emote more and to be more in touch with your feminine side like I always say you know we teach we teach boys as if they're defective girls and so they don't have any clue to you know how to how to channel that into I'm I'm always discontent but I'm creatively and constructively discontent how do you teach that to a kid when the message he's getting is you need to be more like a girl and you need to emote more and you need to be more you know in touch with your emotions here's what happens impressive yeah and so they're expressive with their emotions with an assault rifle you got to get in touch with your masculinity really it's like you know the you know the holders you know there's toxic masculinity there's a lack of masculinity is what it is and I'll go against the grain a bit on Rolo on this one too where you talk about guy gets angry but the girl doesn't accept it and I don't like that framing it as like a validation seeking not your intent but like for guys here who have been angry and I've been this angry when you're angry you get into that fight mode same as it's probably seen boxing I did when I was doing taekwondo you kind of get tunnel vision and everything turns into a pinhole the fact that it's not accepted by somebody else doesn't really enter into it and that's where I like the benefit of that anger you get angry you want to fix something like you were saying partially with the press to where you kind of pull back so at this point it's me period and that's it that's the only thing that enters into the equation and there's an evil psych thing which I'm going to horribly massacre about this where the idea of guys getting angry is not irrational it's a very rational signal that you're saying to the world saying I'm going to get violent if this perceived injustice of mine doesn't get addressed which usually signals to others like get out of his way or help him out real quick I was going to say something about like we should start talking about how to deal with the anger phase I mean I'm not a psychologist or anything like that but if you're in the anger phase if you've just found the red pill go lift weights take a boxing class if you're angry get the energy out and as far as toxic masculinity is concerned I think the only toxic masculinity that is displayed in western culture comes really from women women are the ones that display the toxic masculinity here in 2018 what do you mean? well women display masculinity masculinity that they and again women project their sexual desires on to men they think that because they like masculinity then we must like masculinity so they become more masculine and when a woman is masculine it's unattractive it kind of rubs people the wrong way and women who believe that that's the right thing to do they become hyper masculine that's really when it becomes toxic because they're messing things up for themselves and everyone else around them I hate the term you know I wish you did like toxic masculinity I'm telling you it's ridiculous but trying to find my version of a definition of that the only toxic masculinity is repressed masculinity in a man when you hold it back you don't let it go out that is the only thing that's toxic about it because it builds up you can't hide your programming it's just gonna it's gonna go somewhere and for a lot of guys that's when they lash out out of nowhere and you're like why are you mad you're not mad about this you're mad about the past 15 months where your wife wouldn't talk to you touch you or anything that's what you're mad about but you blew open you know a little timmy for spilling the paint because that's an outlet yeah exactly just want to pass it over to Salk before we start taking questions one of the things I view is anger is a reaction it's a natural biological reaction very much like fear is that you're responding to a context the difference is how do you process that and what do you choose to do courage is a reaction of choice and so I think it's very you know common for guys to have a perceived injustice particularly where it's dealing with their sex their gender their masculinity masculinity that anger is a reaction to that perceived injustice the difference is how do you process that and what do you do about that and the choice of courage is what separates masculinity that should be celebrated as opposed to that being repressed and what you're saying about toxic masculinity and when you're being giving advice at the time that you know does not work that has already failed you and you're being reintroduced it to it again and again and again it further compounds that toxic masculinity masculinity and that resentment and you know it when you're receiving it it amplifies it we're going to start taking some questions here on this live broadcast we've got a live audience so if you guys want to queue up there's going to be a mic available if you want to ask it you can pose it to anybody on the panel everybody on the panel whatever works for you but we've also got sharp assist in the comments looking for questions to pose to the panel so if you have a question you can pop it in there the comments are always appreciated so fire away if you guys have questions do we have a mic out there? awesome hard hitting stuff I'm really hoping for it let's start with the outright one of those things where one of us has to say I don't know I don't have the answer to that one I will find out Google it alright thanks so I come from an academic background so I've seen that there's a lot of bias to survive and you can only publish stuff that kind of goes with the mainstream academic trend so when you have more radical ideas people tend to not want to publish that and that's how you get a lot of desperate PhDs that are trying to publish stuff that kind of goes with the mainstream so they can publish and get out so Dr. Smith what's your take do we kind of fix it a little bit or how is it especially in psychology? well in terms of publishing radical stuff apparently you can reframe Mein Kampf in an intersectional feminist frame and get that published so you can publish radical stuff as long as it's the right radical stuff but I think what you're talking about is probably less radical stuff that appears radical to the people who are radical I'm going to imagine and so I'm not sure where you are in your career and what you're trying to achieve but if you're in a research program and you actually want to get that degree maybe you have to play the game a little bit in terms of not saying things that you don't believe but at least keeping your mouth shut when I went through my doctorate I was in a clinical program so I was surrounded by radical ideas in some quarters but I was there to learn my clinical skills so I kept my head down I learned my clinical skills I became a top notch clinician I hope and I didn't say back then the things I'm willing to say now because I wouldn't have got that piece of paper that receipt that's hanging on my wall but now I'm here now I'm a loudmouth and there are people out there who are more academically oriented like Dr. Deborah So she got red-pilled for lack of better term in academia when the types of things that she was saying didn't flow with the mainstream within that tiny little realm and she was not radical enough for them so she left academia now she's got I think 60,000 followers on Joe Rogan and she's making a really big impact out there sorry 60,000 Twitter followers and she's on Joe Rogan she would not be doing that if she was in academia so she's arguably having a much bigger impact what she's doing now outside of academia now the trade off is that she doesn't have access to those resources the research resources but I think there's going to be a paradigm shift because the social sciences are coming just so off track I think that we're going to see research starting to take place off the college campus so maybe you set a long view that if you're going to be researching and writing you're going to be doing it outside of that that horribly biased intellectually lazy atmosphere that our universities have become and I just want to add to that too guys you don't need anybody's permission to talk or share your story today you can write a blog you can create a video and you press the same upload button that Casey Neistat presses that PewDiePie presses if you have something that's of use in people's lives you don't need the permission of a media outlet to publish your story you can publish it yourself it's just going to take a little bit longer I was also going to say this is not just endemic to psychology it's now entering into hard sciences as well where if you don't consider an ideological perspective in your research and your studies like if science isn't feminist enough then they'll it'll go down a memory hole I don't know if you've probably read that same article about how they they tested this to see was it the peer review study I think where they were just writing stuff that would get just nonsense science and they wrote it in such a way that intersexual feminism would approve of it but that's getting into even like STEM fields now too so if you don't that was very much in the humanities that was limited to some certain journals in the humanities that have a reputation for being just off the wall but I know a physics professor a physics professor that is getting pressured to include this social justice agenda in his physics class it has no business there he's just there to teach numbers and how things work but the pressure on professors and any type of academic to put this stuff the feminist ideology and the social justice ideology in everything is tremendous Jordan Peterson is a prime example of somebody that said no I'm not going to discuss these things in front of people and he kind of took it to his own platform and then he left his day job he shut down his practice and he's writing books and doing two or sort of things so it's not that it's impossible it's hard you're going to have to put in time but you're going to have to build an audience and say something that's of use to the audience yeah I mean just go out and do it there's nothing stopping you from it I assume you're probably talking about red pill related material is that what you were talking about? yeah so I was actually trying to point out you should do a red pill journal be reviewed by all you guys kind of like that we kind of do that every Saturday at 10 I'll say from my standpoint I'm a licensed and that is very much at risk that I it's not necessarily my employer will fire me because of what I say I think if he had his choice he's known about this for a while but it'll come down to a business decision it'll be client based it'll be municipal work and there is in a whole lot of room for a man like me to sit down and say the things that I do about supporting family supporting relationships about supporting men and masculinity within my profession for example there's a lot of drawback to the environmental issues that we're facing as architects designing in the built environment it's not permissible to sit down and say there's actual cannibalization when you have a lead checklist that for fees on a relatively mid-sized project runs several hundred thousand dollars that that's not cannibalizing program building space quality material because you're pulling on that budget string it's supposed to ignore it's not that we can't do it and we do it on a regular basis and we advocate for it but when you have an institutionalized political agenda that says you have to get it through our checklist program and that certification and that certification supposedly doesn't cost money I can tell you I see the fee proposals because I write them it does and so there's a lot of pushback on a lot of that and so but you're not allowed to say and if you do your career is going to be impacted by it and that's very very real and the STEM course or an academic setting I see it on a day-to-day basis in my professional practice on a lower level look what happened to Roosh recently and I think that's definitely a real concern okay so let's say you publish a book or two or three at some point you either have to play the game as it were or you let it ride and there's a very real possibility that you could put something out there that could be possibly banned by you know Amazon or whatever the case may be so I think that's definitely a real concern and it's not necessarily what you do in the now it can be what you did there's no limitation period there's no statute of limitations but a lot of guys even have to be supported by evidence too I just saw one of the chat comments here this is also getting into hard sciences but also into computer coding there's an effort on the part of the Linux kernel stuff right now where they're trying to say you guys are ideologically approved coders and you guys are not when Linux has always been an open source oh my god so that's another really scary aspect of what you're saying back in the Renaissance too I'll do this one quick what a lot of guys used to do because back then you couldn't be an atheist you'd be murdered at the stake when you're talking to the priests in that in the Catholic church they would say these arguments that were basically the atheistic argument but then ended off as and this is the justification why Christianity is real so if you do that kind of tongue in cheek one where people that get it will get it and people that don't don't there's historical precedence there so you could always say well toxic masculinity is wrong and here's all the science or why it's wrong but that's the conclusion then is of course it's right but then everybody who reads between the lines kind of get it the question was about uploading you know getting that stuff out there and just there is a lot of great content out there before that swiped out and the rugs pulled make sure you're grabbing it make sure you're documenting that dialing do whatever you can to make sure you've got your files you have to be litigious do we have another question line up can't really see behind the mic hello gentlemen this question is also for Dr. Smith my question is before you mentioned that there's a blind spot regarding gender dynamics in the psychology field I would ask what are your theories as to the origin of this blind spot would you say this was a a cause after the sexual revolution or it could have gone further back I don't think there's anything nefarious in psychology's blind spot I don't think there's anything intentional about it I know there certainly is a lot of social justice and intersectional feminism that has made its way into research psychology not so much into the clinical side out in the trenches but I think that where the bias in the blind spot comes from is just the tendency for researchers for the last 50 years to want to look at successful marriages and so successful marriages are very much what I suppose this group will call a blue pill paradigm and since that's where the research takes place that's where the numbers are and there's this whole other realm that evolutionary psychology can talk to but not so much clinical psychology we have any other questions from the audience I was going to say I don't think anybody else has anything to hey Redmond red pill rage rage in general can lead to bitterness and you've alluded to the choices people make after they go through the red pill rage sometimes they disconnect sometimes they re-engage and grow what do you all do especially those of you who organize or coordinate communities, blogs, online to manage bitterness if it comes through in those communities and what would you recommend to other folks who are looking to do the same with their blogs yeah that's an interesting question I'll take that one first if that's okay so I've got a private men's community and we had a lot of guys that joined it and a lot of the discussion is kind of tailored to stuff that you know the conversation pieces that matter to men and we don't want to be judged by the size you know for those discussions and of course you know there's somebody that will always join you and they'll be like wow you know this comment looks like it's really you know coming from a place of anger and you know do you hate women or something like that and it's like I think it's unanimously understood from some of the more like seasoned members that have been in the community for quite a bit longer it's like if you shine a light on something that doesn't particularly flatter than sex is it's just pointing to truths and facts and you can't blur that you know you could try to go back to the blue pill paradigm and pretend like you don't know it but it's like saying women aren't always going to be shirt and spice and all things nice and they're capable of doing things that can drive men to suicide going through the divorce machine is very tough for many men so when you have those conversations it's difficult and some people aren't ready to hear that direct honest cold hard truth sort of thing you just kind of have to like have a conversation hey look guys we're not angry here we're not hating the other sex or anything or hating a sex for example it's just like it is what it is these are the sorts of things that happen I think what men in particular have to understand that women are neither good or bad they just are they're just women they take the shape of the container and put in and hear people all the time talk about you know men and women alike will only treat them the way you allow them to well women can't do anything without men they couldn't even do feminism without men so I mean seriously feminism isn't around unless you know men co-sign on to this thing not to say that we're responsible for it but when it comes down to it I think a lot of men have to understand that you teach women how to treat you and again if you give women direction then she will follow she has to be ready to she has to be ready to take that direction but as far as becoming angry with the world and angry with women at some point you're just going to have to accept the fact that this is how it is just like Richard said it is what it is and at some point the anger the anger starts to you want to place the anger somewhere and women are the easy target but listen we're all born with the inherent understanding of the difference between right and wrong we are all we were all complicit in our own demises with women I mean it's not like we were perfect boyfriends or husbands we fucked up too just like they fucked up so I think you have to understand that women are not women were not inherently out to get us they're doing what they've been allowed to do and I think when you can accept that that's when you can move on from the anger phase and it's not just you know women pointing the finger it's dudes too like I get just as much from like the white knights you know the feminized boys that were raised in a second mother household you know are you angry why are you so angry that's like dude Pat Campbell was saying that like when I go on his show on Fridays and when I first started in the women were kind of concerned his female listeners were kind of concerned about what I was saying but they mostly agreed with me yeah you guys find it mostly the guys that are going you know what because because that's it's opening their eyes to something that they don't want to look at guys are just so used to like you know swooping in and rescuing exactly because they've always been taught to identify with the feminine they've always been the blue pill teaches guys to to identify with the feminine because that has always been a means for them to you know get to intimacies the more you're all like which hasn't really worked out well polarity is actually the key to a healthy relationship that's what I say to white knights when they go you know no to a woman like that you do understand she's not going to sleep with you it hits you know that's exactly what that's right that's right well more more to the question though is what I tell guys is that you have more hope in a red pill paradigm than you did in your blue pill paradigm because you were living in this by the set of rules this old social contract that you now are cut away from and you now know that that was something that is neither desirable nor really even true and but now that you have red pill awareness you can live and create new goals for yourself and become you know somebody that you want to be that that the blue pill doesn't you know what was a say that I think it was a line in the matrix where it says you know Neo is like driving around talking about all these when he goes finally goes back to the matrix and he's looking at the matrix again but now he's he's unplugged and he's looking at it for the first time and that he said something about like I have all these memories of a life that never existed so what does that mean and then Trinity says it means that the matrix can't tell you who you are anymore you can't unsee the streets and that I thought was really kind of poignant because that's really kind of how it works is once you you can't unsee it you can't put you can't put the you can't take the red pill lenses off it's going to be there so why not make the best of it why not you know be angry for a little bit do what you have to do don't dwell in that anger but but move on from that and build a better life for you new hope in a red pill path I don't do pity the other thing is that it's and this is the people have heard this quote before it's the the red pill isn't here so that you will hate women it's so it's so that you won't hate them for what they can't be for you right that's good cool do you have another question are you doing gentlemen so question for you guys and this is more directed towards the gentlemen with children how do you go about having your legacy your mission statement survived if something happens to you this is commonly seen in the military so you still continue on the proper growth through a masculine men you know masculine figure and a strong feminine figure after you die and you're not there training or guiding or leading so to speak I'll jump on that one so you set the standard from which everything's going to be measured you know they're going to follow your example not your advice you can say you want to leave a legacy where you've got a strong son who's going to go forward you know claim what's his you're going to have a strong daughter who's going to be feminine raise a great family but if you and your wife are going at it nonstop if you're a supplicating man who's walking on eggshells all the time that's what he's going to follow it doesn't matter what you say you can throw in the rational male but he's going to look at you he can read that there's great constant in there but he's basing his actions off you as the father so you start with yourself you start by fixing you you start by creating the dynamic in the relationship and the marriage or whatever it is you have going on with those children are growing up in for them to see hey this is how I interact this is how the men and women are and then you go out and you create that right of passage for your son you also create a right of passage for your daughter you know just because she's a female you understand your son more because you've been a young man you've never been a little girl I don't think so but still you play an equal role in her development of understanding that is what a man is that is how the role and source of support you know women are complementary to a man's life men and women are equivalent they're not equal so when you're bringing them up you're bringing them up in a unique manner you know you can't treat your son like a daughter can't treat your daughter like your son they're different so for that to continue on you set that standard you know you instill what your code is into your children what you want them to carry on and you let them know like hey it's not all sunshine and rainbows when they talk about raising red pill and red pill parenting you know I don't call it that I just call it parenting that's proper parenting you're teaching them the realities of the world you know you're not repressing your son in the way he wants to express himself because that's what young children are they're the raw development of the masculine the feminine they're not yet infected you know at that age but society's gonna come at them it's gonna come at them early you dictate what they see on TV you dictate the books the the the shows that are going on you know you decide whether you're gonna bring your children out to have experiences you decide whether you're gonna give them presents and buy them things and create a tablet toddler or you're gonna give them presents which is you going places doing things and learning what it's about to be in the world and what it is to become a good functional human adult you can also leave a dent in the universe sorry to interrupt but what I mean is if you passed away something happened to you and you died and then you're left with the mother and the children how do you go about making sure that your legacy survives through the widow like after you die I'm a ghost to that I give lessons no but it's not like I don't think anybody really knows when they're gonna die like when your time comes it comes sort of thing right so I mean it's like you just live in the present in the moments like the power of now you sort of kind of you know get out what you need to like teach at that time and hey you know if you're gone like my daughter's not I mean if I'm gone tomorrow alright I mean you know I've done the best that I can you know the time that I have and you know hopefully you know there's gonna be a master of the man in her life at some point somewhere else it's you know it's gonna fill in the gap maybe maybe not but one of the things that I was gonna say guys is it's like you know you don't even have to have kids to leave that legacy you know I had a guy the other night when you know it was after the event kind of wrapped up after posting comments he was like you know I wrote down a goal like two nights ago and it's like I am going to speak at this event in the future and he didn't have an audience he didn't have a blog he doesn't have a YouTube channel but he's listening to what he has to say but he wants to say something and you can put a dent in the universe like you can put a dent in people's lives even though they don't care your DNA or your last name you can impact them and they can continue to share that message and that's powerful and you can go into that dent in the universe and people's lives if you're concerned about your wife surviving you your child surviving you that's like life insurance questions put a dent in it make sure that there's a void of your absence of influence and people that will carry and resonate through well beyond your years I fully expect God I hope to help so that my daughter lives past me and so my job between now and then is in this moment of now to be there to make that connection and make that presence known so she will have had that father for whatever period of time she has with me and that I make sure that that's a priority in my life and that she knows that it's not a subliminal element that there is a very overt intention of being a parent and being there for that child and making that dent in that life not just the whole universe but in that life and hers and I am totally focused on doing that and I want to add something here I think that excuse me I love that question because there's an awareness of death and if you really want to be red-pilled you really want to know how the world works and that's what I might not make at home and the work that you do while you're here it has a tremendous impact like Rich and I have daughters that are similar ages and I know that if I don't make it home that most of the work that I've done with her as cheesy as it sounds she's gonna go out and find somebody that acts like I acted and so if she never sees me again she's got 11 years with me where hopefully I've created and the next few years are gonna matter too if I'm lucky enough to have those but this awareness that today could be the last day that's a very important red-pill moment for everybody I think everybody knows I have a daughter also what's the greatest quality of your great-great-grandfather that's a great question can you remember that I know everybody knows I have a 20-year-old daughter I've watched her grow from infancy right now and I'll tell you there's nothing like seeing your daughter look for qualities that you possess or the things that you've modeled and you've been the template of masculinity for her there's nothing like seeing her attracted to that in another guy you see that as your boyfriend yeah I know I mean qualities while hobbies are one thing he does share hobbies but my daughter's got a long-term boyfriend right now and it's really interesting it's funny how well I get along with the guy and it's because I modeled and demonstrated behavior and general understandings of who I am, what I'm about and it helps that we're still together and then it works out really well for us but as far as getting to your quote or your question about leaving an impact I'm kind of like the wrong guy to ask because it's like I've done three books I think that's probably a pretty good impact on the world but I do think and I've written about this before is I sometimes wonder what my great-grandchildren are going to think about you know old Uncle Rolo or old Grandpa Rolo and say what was he thinking back then or these are timeless truths I mean I've always said that the rational male is like a living text and you can keep coming back to me I'd say your book's going to last more than your legacy it'll outlive me and that's weird for me to say because it seems like life is so temporal but once you put something out there I'm impacting lives through this convention and just through the stuff that I do and like I said it's kind of humbling to me that at least I've left something behind for not just my family to benefit by the other alright so let's try to keep it tight because we've got two more red man groups to run today and we'll go for another 10 more minutes so if we have anybody else in the audience that has questions it's Firemelt yeah hey guys so my question is revolving around the anger face and I've heard it said in some circles that anger often is overtop of some sort of fear and I wanted to get your opinion as to whether you agree or disagree with that statement and if you agree with it what would typically be the fear that you would see in the anger phase of the unplugging I think that's more for Sean you want to start with that well it's been pretty well documented and I find it to be compelling and reliable research that men tend to go to anger because it's a more powerful emotion you can get things done with it and from an adaptive perspective it makes more sense if you're out trying to slay the woolly mammoth or whatever it is and you get hurt it makes a lot more sense to get angry than it does to get sad and immobilized and so what was the heart of your question like ultimately if there's fear underneath that anger yeah well the fear I think Rich touched on earlier is anger is a lot of times a reasonable reaction to injustice and so the anger if there's a fear behind it somebody goes through family court for example the fear is well I don't want that to happen again and the fear also of well I was wrong about a lot of things I was living my life one way and it turns out that the world doesn't work the way I thought it worked and that's a difficult thing to sit with so I suppose it varies from man to man but one of the things I was thinking about earlier and I'll keep this quick because I know we're keeping it tight but it used to be that when a man got depressed and immobilized there would be some motivation for him to get back out into the community so 100 years ago a guy could go through something similar that he could go through now and he might retreat into his home but his home is going to get boring after a while and there's going to be some compulsion to go back out into the world and now the home is the most entertaining place on the planet and it's very easy I think for men to get to settle into their anger and never get to your question what's really going on behind this for me I think a lot of it comes from and Hunter touched on this briefly a little bit earlier it's embracing the masculine burden of performance when guys find the red pill men are smart and when a man sees the rational male or he sees my show or he watches the red man group a lot of guys do the math very quickly and they figure out okay it's obviously very possible to live the life that I want to live but what is the cost associated with that and they do the math in their head very very quickly and they figure out that they either can't do it or that they won't and I think I think that's the fear that fear is sort of a manifestation of the anger the anger to me is displaced and I'm not a psychologist or anything like that but I think that anger comes from the fact that they know they're like shit I know I could live this life but I know that I can't or I'm not disciplined or I won't I'm not going to be willing to pay this price so I think that's where a lot of that fear comes from is because the masculine burden of performance is a burden it's not easy to be up here doing what we're doing I talked about this in my speech it is not easy to live this you think I can get hired anywhere right you know what I mean like there's a price to be paid and a lot of guys think man I don't want to pay that price but I still want to be able to live that life and it's sort of an inner conflict yeah do we have another question that's about all the time we have gentlemen Rich? Alright guys thank you let's just wind it down we're going to go across the panel just to remind you who everybody all is Roland Tomassi of the Rational Male Hunter Drew of thefamilyalpha.com Donovan Sharp of the Sharp Reality you can find him on Patreon I've got Socrates here of ManningupSmart.com Ryan Stone of the Mary Red Pill and Dr. Shawn T. Smith of the Tactical Guide to Women and DocSmith.co so we will be back with another Red Man group and Anthony I'm guessing like 20 minutes or so yeah 15 minute commercial break alright so we'll take a bit of a break we'll load up a slightly different panel topic so make sure you tune in for that and thanks again for checking this one out we'll see you guys in the next one, peace