 gathered for this conversation. The Ileague game, a critical Ileague game between Quesi Espingol and Real Kashmir FC concluded, in which Kashmir went down to one and which means basically now it's a two horse race for the Ileague title. Which is not really so consequential to our conversation today but we are talking about the Ileague and we have this infiltrator in our midst. The first shot has already been fired and I have ignored it like this. So we are talking about the conversation that we are planning to have is for the majority of this season we have two leagues in India so it's hard for reporters, journalists to cover both of them with equal amounts of intensity. Different way of looking at it also. I have more to cover now. And you're doing multiple things also so you're doing different things for different leagues but a lot of the chat shows and stuff that you've been doing have been based on the ISL and those are the games that you've been following more closely. So we're evaluating at the end of this season which is likely to be a sort of a watershed moment in the next stage of Indian football. What's going to happen in terms of this league structure? No, I'm saying that nobody knows but my point is that why have we been crying here? That at one point in our country where we used to say that we don't get to see football. There are only 10 teams here. Now you have a situation where you have two leagues. However, unlikely it may be from what the scenario should be in world football, there is a positive way of looking at it. Now you have close to about 18 teams, 20 teams. As a result of that, you have more players who are getting to play top flight football. So isn't that a big positive? I think that's a major positive. Top flight football when you say it means one flight or two flights? Why can't you say that you're talking about one league? Just a minute. So what I'm saying is that two top flight leagues, I agree. And one top flight league is forced to play at 2 p.m. to an empty stand where people are turned away when they come to the stand because it's not organized properly because firstly they were told that it's an open game. It's not an open game. You spoke to the guy post the game. It was a closed-door game. Yeah, 50 people were... And that was because security reasons for whatever reason. They were told by the cops that keep it as a closed-door game. 2 p.m. match and then there was the crowd that came in. Obviously they created an atmosphere here, good match. Though my friend will disagree that certain technical aspects. But otherwise, the point is that two top flights then treat both the clubs, give them equal chances, give them equal coverage on TV. You run these matches on internet with one camera, two camera and it looks like s*** literally and then you play up your league ISL with highlights packages and all that. If you are saying that you have been magnanimous, you have said that there are two top flight leagues. That's one positive thing about me. One positive thing is that you are getting to play with more guys. That's true. 100% agree and according to me, like when we went to Kashmir, there are 50-60 clubs in one district in Kashmir so there is no shortage of clubs in India. How many clubs have a budget today? No, no. That's a big budget. How many clubs have a budget to pull corporations? No, no. But we are saying that if you have two top flight leagues, one that has pre-deated, which is already running, etc. So at least you can do this much. Keep both of them on the same platform equally. That's my point. Whether in terms of what time the matches are held, what days of the week, what channel they are showed on, all of these issues, we are not doing Rona for the sake of, means I-league gives us some money to speak. That's true. Unlike other leagues which do pay for coverage, we don't have such a scene. I mean, we've spoken as freely and openly about the mismanagement in the I-league which has caused half this problem. If the I-league was a well-run entity, then we wouldn't have been in this situation. Which brings me to my point. We've been saying for the past three years that I-league is a good product. I agree with you. I-league is a good product in the sense that it's a level playing field. The one we showed in the last video, that's what we were talking about. Now you and you, both of you are covering sports for a long time in India. Whether it's football or any other league, but football primarily. Four years ago, the I-league which is running here, it's been running for many years. What was the situation before that? When your top-flight league was at that time, what was the situation then? At that time, you were playing three matches at 2.30 p.m. In the empty stadiums, you were still competing, right? Now come to another league where they're saying that... Wait a minute. So that is exactly the point. There was a time between the two things when the I-league was on the up and there was no other league. And then they killed that growth. Where is the growth? The point is that if you have a product, if you have a product which is happening, why not develop it into a larger scale? Bring in all your corporates and all that, the way I-league is running now. But why kill one league and then build a new branded league over there, I-league, name everything. I'm just saying a simple business. If you're a product, it's a product at the end of the day. You have to treat it like a product. If you're looking at a product and it's been running for the last 20 years, it's going down. It's going down, but it's not able to go anywhere. Will you agree with me? Nothing was happening with that product. Come on bro. Where? And how much of the onus is on the clubs and the players and everyone who's involved? A lot of it. Now someone comes in to the governing body and says we want to make a new product and we want to do it this way where we will add the glitz, the glamour and whatever you might call it. It's a very small fragment of what makes a league. They say we will do it like this. What were you going to say? You're going to say no. Where was the money in I-league? I'm not going to say no. But to go the cricket way in every situation just because the IPL has been a massively successful product. But it is dispersing from its cricket way. It only started in the cricket way in the first three seasons. This season was the longest season. This is the only league where a third party is controlling who comes and who goes. There's no fair system by which either relegation or promotion happens. There is none. It's essentially some a private person with a lot of money coming in and saying that I will determine who gets the chance to play and who doesn't. How is that? I'm not saying that it's not beneficial. It's very beneficial. Now that you have played the Asian Cup you will believe that this was one of the best performances we have seen the Indian team play at that stage. Agreed or not? I'm not saying that there is no contribution of Coach Constantine. But a lot of it has to do and former players who we are very much in touch with have all been of the same opinion that the off the ball movement that tactically everyone has become a lot more aware in these last six years as opposed to what was there prior to that because you've got better coaches coming in, you've got better support staff coming in you're looking after yourself better. Now if that is at the cost of making a different league of a league parallel to a league which was running for 30 years prior to that then I as a businessman or I as someone who's a stakeholder in Indian football will say okay why not give it a try you're still the nascent stages right now 6 years. Premier League is running for 80 years give it at least 10 years 10 years for ISL after 10 years, how much benefit do you have to be honest if I think that ISL those who are running they have 10 years to think but 10 years of foresight that's the foresight in terms of making money if you are talking about corporations like for example these clubs that are playing in this tournament where they pay a franchise fee etc do they own any assets like what, when you are if you are talking in business terms if you are making a product and value that product then what is the value of the club the name value of the club that is how it is for you so you mentioned the players that you play and they play really well Asian Cup these players have all come up from a system which is very ad hoc in India and it still continues to be ad hoc despite this 6 year old grand league that has come up why, that's the question are you saying what you played in the 2019 Asian Cup what you've done 2 years prior to that isn't that primarily of prime importance to how you are playing in the 2019 Asian Cup I do agree that the game time that the players are getting it like Constantine said the league system or the league structure in India is not yet evolved to a stage where we can make an assessment of things even at an Asian level these steps that we are taking the things that we are doing right coaching the professional trainers the kind of facilities that the kids are getting the fact that they have money now all of these things are positives but it's a trickle down approach that we have seen over like how many years have we been independent now like the central government tried the same approach for at like India macroeconomics level and it hasn't worked and why should the same thing work in football it's not going to happen where you establish these monoliths in Delhi like this massive beautiful stadium we have here nobody in this city firstly it's not a football stadium yeah this is a closed door game I don't think you can take not a big idea talking about the ISL matches not today, yeah the story is different but when the ISL matches are held here how many people come to watch if you are on bait why do you keep the matches in Delhi and if you have established such a big league because there are business propositions if you think about business then you will say this is a capital if there is no football team then where will it be if you want to spread the game before this, there was a team that was around and there is still a team where will it be I have played a lot of football in Delhi so Riyal Kashmir qualified second division final round and then there is a difference in the ground so they are losing the final they would have made it to the ISL they lost 1-0 to Riyal Kashmir in the last game which if they had won 1-0 they would have been in the ISL that is a case to ponder also all our friend Anuji Sudeva that is a case to ponder as well because in 6 years of ISL Delhi still remains where it was as far as footballing is concerned because no club is coming up in any case no club is good enough to actually clear I-League second division so that is the case so you have planted things here in Delhi where football as a culture is not exactly compared to for instance northeast and then you expect things to grow organically when you are not setting up the right things for the organic growth to happen that is our point what do you mean by organic growth please tell me what do you mean by organic growth like all these grass roots grass roots, there are other people doing grass roots in Delhi the simple thing is there is no problem there is no problem you have to start a league like you are saying more players will get a chance to play everything will increase in numbers and until we have that massive player pool massive numbers that is the only way things will happen so that is fine but this attempt to monopolize and control how everything happens all decision making you see there was enough space enough space in India given all the cultural diversity that we are talking about for example the northeast has one club in the ISL there are more clubs from other parts of just because we assume that the northeast is one sort of entity we put them all in one I know there are many clubs for instance Naroka zooming Naroka if you are looking for a spokesman so these guys have put in a lot of effort at the local level to find sponsorship to give good facilities to their players to bring in foreign coaches and compete at the level that they can now you will come up and tell them that you will have to give 10 crore more just to play where will you come from where is your realism I will tell you 4th highest watch league in the world I have not even brought it up my point is the ISWAL one now in your books and in any books of how football is run across the world ISWAL should be moving up to the next league my point is the ISWAL that won on that budget and with those players where can you play 100% not on what basis are you creating a system basically you are saying that I have a lot of money so I will buy all the equipment and then I will inflate my ISWAL you are putting in some money you are putting in some money you are getting 2 crore obviously a guy like Bangalore which is funded by ISWAL which is a mega industrialist he will hang around in the ISWAL get his basics right and then he will be like I want to go and sit with guys who are at my level who are also billionaires so you have this billionaires boys boys and girls club my point is very simple if you are talking about the ISWAL you are running a product from so many years and whatever its shortcomings might be whatever its positives might be pre ISWAL except the fact that it was not working it was not working and post ISWAL no its in fact let me tell you now the trickle down effect and I am not saying this is courtesy ISWAL and they saw this suddenly now you see you have another league where you are sort of competing with the quality in itself has gone up the affiliation a fan feels for a club that is not in the ISWAL and for whatever reason he might say that he is not letting me go that he is becoming a big boys club that they have come even closer to the club and I am not saying this is planned or anything like that but in turn has been good for the ISWAL but ok so what happens next because eventually like you say you have basically your opening point of two top flights is now out of the window of course I agree with this I am saying currently we are on two top flights move ahead has to be one and everyone across the board has agreed to this make a second division there is no problem just the ISWAL now I will tell you if you have opened a regular relegation this is my thought this is my thought two who will go but those who will come up do they still have a team in this league who have the same budget and have the same players who will be able to compete for your Minerva last year obviously not today because it is not necessary today when you are talking about corporate funding if so many XYZ million people are watching the ISL on television obviously for sponsors it is a much more attractive proposition so if a real person leave today let's say is getting 100 rupees from Aridas for their kid sponsorship tomorrow if they are playing in the iLeague they will get 1000 rupees you are still saying where has it happened so far how can it happen unless like you are saying let's see what happens let's allow it give it time only if you allow the people to come in will you be able to see whether they can compete or not North East doesn't have money they are run on the tightest budget so they are not competitive but the season they have done really well on a tight budget they have done really well because they are using similar formula to what they use when they were playing or when they are clubs that have North East clubs that are played young players, locally grown players locally trained players fighting fighting because why everyone wants a job everyone wants a good contract so I'll tell you what this conversation is not going to end and there won't be any problem solved here so let's just end it with final comments final comments I don't have a final comment my point is standing quickly I can express my final comments my point is this my point is this what would be the way forward for you not next year but say 10 years once the 10 year cycle of the ISL is done what is the way forward according to me, our country is a big country there are millions of people living here football players are as many as they are not so why are we playing 10 clubs I don't understand if you want to play then you have a place of 12-14 what is the problem again it will be the same it won't be a level playing field what you have to do where is the level playing field if PSG has Zlatan and PSG is an anomaly they should be playing in some other league this is an anomaly same for so many other countries like Bayern Munich in Germany is the same so you can't stop a successful club from dominating a system but the thing is I am not saying that they defeat Bayern Munich or PSG but they are competing I don't understand the level playing field because in the quarter finals last year football is 90 minutes excuse me the level is 120 minutes I don't understand that when you are analyzing a club and you are analyzing how to play in the league you will see it over a season you don't see it over a 90 minute game in quarter finals I have 5 teams I have a league team and I have this thing that shows that football is competitive and played on the pitch when you are playing a league league is played over 9 months, 8 months, 6 months not over a 20 day period let everybody play not in a tournament let the teams who can't compete with them get relegated be it ILE club that's the statement okay so I think if you are talking about money if you are talking about money like East Bengal, Mohan I am pretty sure that they can raise the money I don't think money is what is stopping them from being a part of this top flight it's I don't know these are discussions that are not available to us in the public domain you have franchised on this that there will be only one club in one city Chennai city if you have started a league that we want to invest a huge amount of money which has not been invested in Indian football in the past what will it take for you to enter into the league now if one of the points they are putting is putting X amount of money which has not been put by any club in the past we do not want a competitor for the first 10 years scared it's a business decision it's a smart decision the business model for these companies is that they never want a competitor you can't do that it's not humanly possible that you don't have a competitor but you can put a time limit on it at the start so in this case the AFF has gone and said you are my house I am poor give me some money and in exchange you can take my house take my mother take my car take my television set and on which channel are you coming you decide on that if now this this barrage of comments have been made now see what I am going to be doing one two