 Okay. I have the thumbs up in the back, so thank you for joining us today. I'm Heidi Joy Trethaway. I'm actually pretty new to the foundation. This is my first summit and I work on the marketing team with lots of these lovely people in this room. I'm your marketing community manager. So I'm kind of playing host to this conversation about open-stack user group branding and about open-stack days and all the pieces and parts and requirements. Then I'm going to ask Tom and Claire to introduce themselves. Hi, my name is Tom Feifield. I'm community manager with the open-stack foundation. So I do a lot of work with, for example, the operative community, various user group kind of things. Yes, if you're unhappy for any reason, feel free to email me at tomatopensack.org. I'm Claire Massey. I'm with the foundation and the marketing team, I'm primarily responsible for the summit, but also help out with the community open-stack day events and providing support from the foundation side. Since Claire is also losing her voice a little bit, I also agreed to do a little speaking to the open-stack days and then deferring to her for the hard questions. So anyway, well, let's start. You are here probably for one of two pieces, maybe for both, around either user group recognition or open-stack days, recognition and branding. So first, we're going to be talking about the goals for each of those. Then we'll talk about the guardrails. Those are the big box within which you can do a whole lot of different things. Then we'll talk about the benefits. We'll dig into the logo, swag, other ways that we can recognize you, and then finally we'll wrap up and talk about that path to success and path to recognition. Particularly for those user groups or open-stack days that we feel like are not quite meeting all the guidelines that we need to see met in order to really satisfy the mission that we have here. So really the first thing I wanted to point out was this idea of what are our goals? Like what are we trying to accomplish? I'm hoping in the context of us talking for the next 40 minutes that we're really going to make this a conversation, particularly as you see a few later slides, I'm going to ask for your opinion. So be ready, don't feel like this has to be something where you're just sitting and listening. For us, the general principles are around being open to the community, being vendor neutral, making these events educational and social. Then also we really want to see both events and user groups display good citizenship, which could mean something as simple as being available to be contacted. I mean, Tom's mentioned to me that in a number of cases, one of the issues with the user group is just not having enough contacts, not making yourself available to additional community members who might want to join in. Then also having good citizenship means doing right by the brand and protecting and extending on the open-stack brand. So that's important to us as well. Let's talk a little bit more about goals for user group requirements. Tom, what's your perspective on this? Why is it so important that we're really towing the line on user group responsibilities? Right. So we have a large range of user groups around the world, and they're doing some simply amazing things. Whether it's getting together and organizing a Hackfest, a regular meet-up, a social meet-up, we even have the instance of the Japanese user group here helping us organize this amazing event with 6,000 people. Really, this is about recognizing all of the efforts of those groups who've gone above and beyond to get to that best practice level of user group achievement. In addition to that, it's about helping every single group in the world try and get to that best practice level, and assigning them a mentor so they can step through the process, and we just end up having a place that you can go that's welcoming and open, a sustainable community through every part of the world. Thank you, Tom. Then Claire, you and I were just talking about how being an open stack day, uh-oh, sounds like somebody. Somebody crashed the activity out there. We were talking about this idea of brand promise, that there's an expectation around an open stack day that it's going to be serving the community. It's going to be open and inclusive, and you don't show up at an open stack day and run into a vendor sales pitch, and that really makes it important. Right, exactly. Of course, the sponsors of the open stack day are usually the high-level sponsors expect a speaking slot, so there is some vendor pitching happening at the open stack days, but we really hope that the steering committee gets users up there and brings in a lot of different companies, some of them that are competitors with each other and whatnot, and has a lot of variety in there, unless they're going for a specific vertical. Some of them do that as well, instead of just being general across the board. Yeah. I like how that variety is encouraged and that openness also, because it really creates more interesting dialogue at the events themselves, so that's great. Thank you. All right. So let's talk about some guardrails. What I'm going to do is throw a whole bunch of words on the screen that we're not going to read. I just wanted to remind us that this all exists on the website, that you can go dig into this to find out more, and that we have this available on the screen, in case we do want to ask questions or drill down into these. If you wanted to speak to any of these now, Claire, we can, but otherwise, we can really just take your questions as they come up. I just wanted this to be a resource on the screen for us if we need to step back to it. So I'm going to cruise right over to the next piece, which is the user group requirements. And Ditto, I'm going to throw a whole bunch of words on the screen that we will not read to you, because that would be rude. I think it might actually be worth going through some of these. Yeah. Well, let's find out, like talk a little bit about what some of the issues are. Yeah, indeed. So for example, we've got a whole range of user groups in the world in this kind of start-up because someone says, oh, I'm really passionate about OpenStack. And that's fantastic, and we like that. And then after meeting once or twice, they just die and they fall into this disuse. And really, one of the key programs that we've got with user groups that I think it's important to mention to start off the conversation, and because we have some of our very important participants in that program here is the Ambassador Program. So we actually have together a group of, I think it's about 13 or 14 people who are really plugged into the OpenStack community and have run or assisted in the running of several user groups at a very high level of expertise. And so just for those of you who are user group leaders in the room, I'd like to introduce all of the OpenStack ambassadors who are here. So guys and girl, if Yellu is here, could you stand up and show everyone the OpenStack ambassadors? Yes, please. Stand up, yeah. And so, yeah. These are our user group leaders. Can we also have our ambassadors stand up too? So these were the ambassadors. Oh, I'm sorry, I heard you wrong, okay. Of course, many ambassadors also run a user group. Maybe we could get a show of hands. Who runs a user group here? Oh, wow, that's fantastic. Cool, fantastic. They're really running the community. It looks like we've got, yeah, at least 15% of our user group leaders here. That's fantastic. All right. And so these guys, the ambassadors who've just stood up, you could find their details on the group's portal and contact them for information about any of this. Also have to plug this session, which is happening tomorrow morning at 9 a.m., where they're gonna be going through this in more detail. So do feel free to contact your local ambassador. Sorry, Heidi, I talked too much. No, you're doing great. Actually, I was just stepping ahead to support what you were saying. This idea of the official user group process, where to find it online, and then also you starting a new open stack user group. We have all of these resources available for you, but I really appreciate ambassadors. I've seen that in some other organizations. It really, really makes a difference. So thank you, ambassadors, a lot. Okay, so let's keep talking. Let's go on to benefits. This is the exciting unveil. Are you ready? All right, first thing we're unveiling is an idea for the open stack days. So this is the concept. When we first developed this logo and idea, we put it out to you and we asked you what you thought about it. And this is about six months ago now. And your feedback was pretty meh. Like it wasn't hugely embracing of the logo that was proposed, because the logo was pretty far away from the open stack brand. So what we heard from you loud and clear is that you really wanted to be able to embrace and own a logo that was very aligned with the visual identity of open stack. So in this case, what we've done is basically take that O icon, that really the thing that is the linchpin of our logo, put it on a map and that map can be re-centered to specifically speak to wherever you are in the world and then include a few words below. And then you can see the social media icon just knowing how detailed the main icon is that we have another option there. Yeah, that's it. No, Tokyo is in Italy as you can see from right in the middle there. No, that's definitely why we wanna call out the fact that we can move the maps around. Yeah, that's a really cool feature. So we wanna have a conversation about whether this is meeting your needs or meeting your concerns and needs for the brand. But before we go there, I also wanna kind of skip forward and look at the very similar logo for official user groups as well. So in the same way, Tokyo is located in Italy. But in the same way, you can see that we have both kind of a detailed icon that's gonna look great in print, it's gonna look great on the web and in kind of banner, large size, and then in very small format, the social media graphic. Do you guys wanna add anything on that yet? Okay, we'll regroup there. Now I also wanna show you another variable here before we talk logo. And that's around this idea of recognition. So how does your official user group or your official OpenStack day show up online? And so this is a great example of where you can really see the benefit of having taken all the steps, gone through those, I think it was six different things, that six different tests that one needs to meet to be an official OpenStack user group. And once you've gone through those things, you really earn that recognition. So I kind of like this example, not that these are saying who's who, but I like this example that shows what an official user group looks like versus an unofficial user group. This could be recognition on the website. And then we also see opportunities for doing additional promotion from the foundation through social media, our website visibility. And then Lauren had mentioned to me earlier that we would be having kind of with some additional website changes, we'd be seeing more visibility on the website of user groups. So, and if you wanted to speak to that, can I give you this microphone? Okay. I wasn't sure if you were standing up to speak or just moving. I was actually hoping maybe we could just take a pause and slow down a little bit and then get some feedback and conversation going. So I was hoping this could be a little bit more of a working session. But yeah, this page I'm sure, or hopefully many of you recognize kind of the column on the left. This is actually the groups portal right now. And what Heidi Joy is referring to is we have, actually just this last week made the groups portal more prominent on the openstack.org website. So now it's under the community dropdown menu and it takes you straight to the groups portal, which hopefully drives more traffic there and to the user groups. And then we also added the open stack days under the events dropdown on the main navigation as well. So again, just trying to get more visibility and drive people there. But yeah, I was wondering if maybe we could just pause and go back a little bit too and make sure we went through like a lot of the requirements and the official user group process. And many of these have been discussed in the community and in place for a while, but I just wanted to get a sense if everyone knew about them was on board with that. If there is any feedback there, and then we can kind of dive into some of the recognition stuff that we were talking about. Would you like me to run through the requirements for the user groups? Would that be helpful? Yes, we can. I'm going to come to you with a microphone and there's also a microphone in the middle of the room. I just want to do that for our recording. Because I mean, having open stack days and groups, I mean, I think they should be separate. I mean, recognizing an open stack day as official, that's no question. As of today, open stack user groups have been organized on Meetup, right? That's actually not true for a few of them, yeah. Yeah, but I mean, the place of the world that I live in, which happens to be in Europe, is Meetup organizes the groups. So if you want to look for an open stack group, you go to meetup.com and find it. Yep, that's true in some countries. Yes, so how does that, I mean, but because that's an established process, so to speak. How does that link into, are we now trying to get people off Meetup? Do they have to go on to meeting? Essentially, we don't mind which medium is used to organize the group. We believe that each location will be able to choose the best tool for their effort. The groups portal does have the ability to have events on it. So you can use the groups portal to do that, but we don't require that. You're very welcome to use Meetup. You're very welcome to use whatever happy social media tool is in the country that's popular for you. We don't really have a position on that. Do you think we should have a position on that? There's a microphone in the middle of the room. Thank you. Yeah, so the groups portal is set up so that what you provide is information about your group. And Martin, the developer of the groups portal probably has a few things to say about that. Yeah, yeah, just a little additional that we like data. And this is one of the goals of the groups portal that we can interconnect it with the Meetup.com pages. And we can call out all of the membership data out of Meetups and we can build a fair nice statistics. So tomorrow morning you can see the results on the ambassador panel. This is one thing with the Meetup is very nice and we are also using it. But from the other side, Meetup.com is a trap because you never can get access all of your member data. Maybe you cannot get out the email addresses of the members, so yeah. But we have this situation that we are using Meetup.com. Meetup.com, so we are living with that. It is a historical thing. So maybe one way we can approach this conversation because we have several different things to talk about. Maybe let's start by talking a little bit more about the user group requirements and I'm looking to you for chatting and feedback. Go ahead, talk. So maybe should I just run through them very, very briefly. This is as brief as we possibly can. Starting from number six, which is the very end of the slide, if you're a new user group, we'd like you to partner with an ambassador and they're going to help mentor you through all of these steps. So you don't even need to remember what these are because in theory you can just ping your ambassador and say, hey, why are we not an official group yet and they'll come back and give you practical steps that you should take to achieve that. Then other easy, simple ones, like when you create a group in the Groups Portal, we have a tick box. At the moment we just have a tick box for the event policy which says you agree to it and that's a fairly standard thing that should be easy to pass. Other simple things, contact information. Because we don't require anyone to be on a particular site, we'd like to know where you live and we'd like you to keep the Groups Portal up to date with information about where the group is living online and who's organizing it. And the Groups Portal actually has pretty good Google food. So aside from people who just use the OpenStack website to find their group, people who are Googling for OpenStack in the nearby region are very likely to come in through the Groups Portal. So you need a name for the group. It's ideal if you've got a description. And we also look for URLs and organizer information. Regarding organizers, it's been our experience that a single organizer is basically insufficient to run a sustainable user group. We've seen many, many instances where single organizer groups have failed because the person lost interest, they change employer, this kind of things. We are aiming to make sustainable groups that are ongoing places that the OpenStack community area comes on. So we actually look for groups to have multiple people involved in the organization, at least two, so you and a friend, fantastic. And in order to make sure it just isn't a vendor marketing pitch kind of thing, we want to make sure that if there is a corporate background affiliation, that that's diverse. And that's of course validated. We also, because there are responsibilities when you're using the OpenStack brand, we want to make sure that the communications you send out are using the brand correctly. They're not offending people, they're not doing anything illegal. And just generally working within the spirit of OpenStack are our code of conduct guidelines and the brand guidelines. Finally, meeting regularly. And this is something we've deliberately not put a number on. We have some user groups in the world for whom they need to arrange armed guards for the meeting location, so it's actually entirely appropriate if they only meet once a year. If you're in the heart of Silicon Valley, you might be looking for meeting once a month, for example. And these few simple tests are what we're looking for in order for groups to be known as an official user group. So that is a really great kind of overview. And I wanted to ask, it looks like we have a question here. Would you be kind enough to come to the middle and ask your question into the microphone so you can record you? I don't. Like a bit? So I wanted to ask if we have an official mediation policy. We have seen instances where the same region has two user groups who refuse to work together. And despite best efforts from ambassadors, from people, I don't know, they just don't seem to come to an agreement. So it might be a good idea to maybe start some kind of an official policy. That's actually embedded in this process. I skipped over that. There's a word there underneath the third bullet point, which is coordination. So we actually look for groups to be coordinated inside their region. So for example, we have in India, we have a fantastic user group. They run a really good open stack day. Of course, Claire can speak more about open stack days. And then there's this little splinter group in a particular city, which doesn't coordinate with anyone else in India, and weirdness is going on. And so we'd like to use this process to say, please work together if you possibly can. Additional questions. Do these feel like reasonable requirements of an open stack user group? Can I ask you, please come back? Sorry. I think the requirements seem reasonable enough. I think we need more ambassadors, if anything. I just, the number of groups is increasing. And even regionally, I manage the open stack India group with a few people. And there's six of us and we can't manage. We have like 4,600 users now, and it's just, it's getting out of hand. So more ambassadors would be better, yes. More true words have never been said. Yes. And the ratio of number of ambassadors, number of user groups is almost 10 to one, right? Just following up his comment about my opinion. So if we wanna make official world of user group, I think it's better to have, not ambassador, but I don't know the name of position, but at least one person in that official group to become some type of the main contact point. Absolutely. Because before that, user group was, we don't have any official or non-facial concept. User group is just a volunteer group of people who are doing open stack. So it was okay. But if we wanna create official, then means I think the ambassador cannot cover all the communities. So the main contact point would be, not just main contact point, a designated person in that official user group might be, and recognition from the foundation that might be helpful. So that might be something we can add to the group's portal, let people specify who's the contact point for the group. Mm-hmm. Great, good comment. Other thoughts on that one? Okay, I'm gonna migrate over to open stack days. Good luck. And ask if there are questions or comments about the tests on open stack days. So I'm gonna ask you to come to the microphone again. I see a couple questions too. There is a lady behind you who also wants to talk about open stack days. So I'm gonna go right over to that slide. Ooh, ooh, we have. I'm happy for her. We have some excitement at the microphone. Wow. You run a good session, Heidi. Oh, wow. So yeah, look, I guess one of the main issues or hindrances we've faced, and we've done three of them now, is collecting sponsorship funds. So each vendor or sponsor has different policies. We don't have an official body that can receive funds. So sometimes organizers have to get funds into their personal account that creates a nightmare with tax authorities. I guess one concern here would be, this also leads to a lack of transparency because if I'm receiving funds, I don't want to show my financial statement to the group. I mean, I didn't sign up for that, right? So it's a bit difficult to keep things above board. And then there is the extended payment cycles. Like we still haven't received payments for the day that finished in September or August, and it's almost November now. So we're still waiting on payments from some people. I won't name anyone, but it's just, it's a cumbersome process because people like myself, we go out of pocket to organize these days. And then, you know, it's, yeah, so maybe if there's some kind of a process that helps us, it would be good, thanks. Thank you. Yeah, that's a great point. I think a lot of it varies country by country, probably a little bit, and involves lawyers and all these things if we were to have an entity in each country to receive funds and whatnot, but I'm also very tired, I apologize. But I don't have an exact answer for that one, but I think it's a great discussion and I can bring it up within the foundation and see what we can do on that as far as receiving funds. But as far as receiving, getting the sponsors to pay, I know a lot about that from managing the summit. So if you need me to light some fires or hold feet to the fire, I'm happy to help push on companies, but yeah, it happens. And for the big companies, there's a lot of process and sometimes it takes them three to five months to get their bills paid and the startups, sometimes they just don't have the money or the cash flow. So yeah, there's always different things, but we could, I usually try to use some light retinine tactics to get people to pay. Yeah. So this is definitely something we should be discussing further to support user groups as a fiduciary. Okay. Let's hear from you. A big question back to the official user group. Imagine I establish a user group and I reach that official status. Then what will happen then? What happens after you use a group? What is the advantage of being official OpenStack user group? I'm sorry, one more time. What is the advantage of being official? Excellent. What a great segue. Would you allow me to push pause on your question for just a moment so that we can talk more about the benefits, because I actually have slides on that. And I just want to give this lady behind you an opportunity to ask a question in case it's still on the guidelines. Is that okay? Hello, everyone. I'm Frances Yu from China, from United Stack, Chinese startup company focused on OpenStack. And I think I have a little conference with the user group and it's opened in China. Tom have attended the conference. They build up China OpenStack islands, islands. And many companies are involved, including Intel, IBM, Huawei, and about eight companies. They build islands. But I think maybe as a startup company, in this islands, our voice is so tiny and no support. Let me just stop you there. And I guess this is only really a relevance to people in China. So we've approached earlier in the year to form an OpenStack China Alliance with a organization related to the Chinese government. The current point in time, the status is that we received the documents that we need to look through about two weeks ago. We haven't made any agreements. And as far as we're going, the Alliance hasn't started yet. And we're still actually looking to make changes to ensure that it can be as open and inclusive as every part of OpenStack is today. What is the relationship with as a user group OpenStack Alliance and China OpenStack Islands and the OpenStack Day? So at this stage, we've just received the documents a couple of weeks ago. And given that we've been really busy organizing the summit, we really haven't dug into the deep level about what's being proposed. So I don't even, I kind of remember exactly what's been proposed at this stage, but yeah, it's still early days. And we're definitely, definitely, definitely trying to get every company and every user in China involved in any activity that we do in China. Yeah, so we just want to make sure, we will enroll in, but we just want to make, I will have the same equal rights in the islands. Indeed, absolutely. I agree with you and I think that's the direction that we're trying to push. So maybe we should speak after this in the interests of people who are outside the country. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Maybe I've got a quick question about events but not OpenStack Days. Events which are organized locally but are not OpenStack specific and where the OpenStack Foundation is not going to come and organize a booth and stuff like this because it's an event that's too local. We have an example of this in France, in Paris and then do we have guidelines or requirements for the user group to be able to kind of represent OpenStack at these events? So can the group represent OpenStack at a local event? So you're not talking about actually hosting an event. No, like just having a booth in a big event. Like in Paris we have an event called Open Source Summit, stuff like this. And a lot of Open Source projects do have a booth there and OpenStack doesn't have a booth unless the OpenStack, the French OpenStack user group goes there and organizes something, so. Lauren, it looks like you wanted to take this. Can I make sure you have a thing? And then I did promise Martin we'd talk benefits. Yes, so I love that idea and I'd love for you to go represent us at those different events. We've done something kind of similar with some larger industry of events that happen around the world where we've pulled in different ambassadors or user group leaders to go there and we provide some funding for that. So maybe as part of this process or this framework that we're trying to put together with the ambassadors with the user groups, we can kind of empower or fund you to do that. Maybe there's some kind of, one of the things we want to talk about with the benefits is that we are trying to put more budget and opportunity behind user groups this next year. So we're trying to figure out the best ways to distribute that funding and we wanted to kind of have a brainstorm for that. So that could be one possible way. We have the store that we've put up and we have different kits in there. Maybe we are able to do something where you can have materials to go to these different shows and hand out. So I would say yes, we'd love to make that happen and we can figure it out. And I put up the kits right behind me as an example but we'd like to hear more about what you'd want to include. So I promised Martin we'd go to his question next and then can we come to you next after that? So Martin, you were asking about benefits specifically. So in addition to the logos that we had just looked at and the recognition that would be on the website, on social media and through additional foundation promotion, we had also kind of outlined this idea of a branded swag kit that we'd be able to send to you to support your official user group meetings or your open stack days. And really we wanted to hear what we felt would be most valuable to you. And so perhaps we could do a little brainstorm. I'm gonna repeat it into the microphone so I'm just gonna ask what would you most like to see? And maybe that's cash and maybe that's something specific branded product. But would you shout it out and I'll repeat it into the microphone? Okay, so Gary from LA said his biggest challenge is finding presenters. So he's challenging you. Ooh, he's challenging us. Whoa. Speaker's here. Would you like to answer that? So do you want me to jump in? Yikes. Indeed. So for me, that's great. Yes, absolutely. But I'm like almost a normal film but I know for a lot of people here in the middle of Missouri, getting the talent is gonna be tough. This is entirely true and having been a user group organizer before, again, I've had those cold sweats. So I know what they feel like. The good news is we've started on something. So I don't know if anyone submitted a presentation to either this summit or the past summit, maybe even the previous one. I don't know. There's actually a little tick box there which is would you like to be added to the speakers bureau? So we've been collecting this data. The next, that is the next step. So I think really there's so much effort, sorry, so much interest in solving this problem. We've got probably I think 20 people applauded instantaneously in this room when we heard that. I think it would be really, really nice to have a community effort to decide what to do with that data and how to present it and how to use it. But I don't know if either a few or Lauren have any more comments. Yeah. So action item, would someone like to arrange a meeting for the design of the speakers bureau? Okay, apparently that's going to, the conversation is going to continue tomorrow morning 9 a.m. in the ambassadors session. Awesome. But we've got to do this as a priority because it is a massive pain point across the world for a large number of users. Yep. I want to address some more questions. You gentlemen have been standing so patiently but we still have our ears open by the way on what additional things besides the speakers bureau you would like to see as benefits of being official. So let's make sure that we're addressing that. But sir, you're waiting so politely. Thank you. I have a question about and the proposing about invitation to our foundation members. So open stock there you are hiring a sponsor and creating a program for the keynote speaker from a foundation is very important to get their people. So, but of course a foundation member is very limited and they are from going to the upload and creating a turbine map is a very difficult task. So, but our plan for fixing the date of stock days are very influenced by this schedule. So, and currently the deserving the foundation member for coming to this open stock days are just first in first sub. I think that's fair but that is impossible to invite the foundation member to follow up the stock day for very near schedule. So, I think that there is some more method to decide foundation members schedule or some proposal or some solution for that. I think that is very important. Right. Yes. So basically what I'm hearing is everyone wants more of Mark Collier. We just put him on the road 365 days a year he won't mind. He doesn't need a life. Yeah, we, I mean, there's a lot of requests for foundation staff and board members to speak at open stock day events and of course these guys have jobs and families and whatnot and don't wanna live on a plane but what we try to do is if we can schedule enough open stock days within a region within a consecutive like 10 days or something if there's enough of them then we can all kind of get together and fly and make and go and speak and if we plan it far enough in advance that's possible. So, it's just kind of coordinating with the foundation far enough in advance and I'll help with that. I guess another thing you could do is just if you're thinking about organizing an open stock day and you have got a set of dates in mind as early as you possibly can you could even drop an email on the community mailing list to let other people in your region know or even contact other groups as well as the foundation just spread those dates far and wide. Yeah, great. What is your question, sir? I would like to go back to the list of requirements for official open stock days. We can do that. There are a couple of things. One is the first two points basically the way I read them is that you want the events to be non-profit oriented which in turn would mean we should be able to get a tax exempt status for it. So depending on the country. So for the first two my question was to the foundation could you elaborate a little bit more on a text that we then can use for the tax authorities and say it's like look this is educational blah blah blah please grant us tax exempt status which will kind of help. In certain cases. But and then to the third bullet point on there you say it should be open to the public. That's a very, very, very broad term. That one could interpret as you may not charge. So what's, I would kind of like some clarification there. But so the two, two. That's why I wanted to point it out. So one is tax exempt status. The other thing is what does actually the open to the public mean? Yeah, so I know there's, we're actually at a time so I'm gonna go quickly and we can talk after this. But really the spirit of that is that these open stack days are supposed to be organized by the community not by like a professional events organization that is trying to build a for profit event off of open stack. Many of them do charge a fee but again the idea is to come up with a model where you're taking in sponsorship dollars or fees to attend that are just your break-even costs or if you are making money off of it you're saving it to put into other community events or activities. So that's the intent. If the wording's not clear I'm happy to take suggestions on that as well. As far as the tax exempt status I don't know an exact answer. I do know that some groups around the world have formed local organizations so they are able to accept funds and do it as a nonprofit. We don't have an official relationship with those organizations from the foundation perspective and they're not like chapters of the foundation if that makes sense they'll set up like a local we support like maybe a you know in Turkey they're setting up a cloud association and that's how they run their events. It's not necessarily like an open stack official association so that's the yeah. Yeah it's a yeah. So all of these are at open stack.org slash event policy I think it is event dash policy so that's where these are these pieces are written down but we'll be happy to continue this conversation with you later. Thank you for coming.