 Ega mana, ega reo, ega raurangatirumā, kitai mana whenua, te ati awa, taranaki bānui, tēnā koto. Ko ta Edmund Hillary te talata, ko Edmund Hillary Fellowship te pare, ko Maungatapu te Maunga, e rūnei tāku ngākau, ko Matai te awa, e maheia nei mahala-hala, nō pakatu ahau. Ko Rosalie Nelson toku ingue. Ko te chief executive Edmund Hillary Fellowship ahau, nō reira, te nā koto, te nā koto, te nā tātou, tātou. I would really like to welcome all of you to this really exciting Edmund Hillary Fellowship Springboard session, where we're looking at Aotearoa New Zealand's priorities and opportunities in this emerging decade of action on climate change. Just before we launch formulae, I would just like to open the space and respect to the elements with the Karakia. So thank you. Look, today we are really privileged to be joined by local and global leaders who are going to be bringing really fresh insights and calls to action in the post climate change conference COP26. I'd like to begin, because I know that while we've got many fellows on the call, we also have a number of leaders in Aotearoa. So for those of you who are perhaps not so familiar with the Edmund Hillary Fellowship, we were formed to pilot an innovative global impact visa programme with Immigration New Zealand. Now that was back in 2016. Today we have 532 world-class innovators, investors, entrepreneurs, technologists, scientists, creatives, educators and visionaries. And all of them are really committed to Aotearoa as a part of this programme. Our purpose is to partner with Aotearoa New Zealand to find and build solutions to our toughest challenges so that we inspire global leadership and solutions for future generations. I have to say when you're starting to talk about climate change that is absolutely one of our toughest challenges. We are also a part of the Hillary Institute. Now the Hillary Institute celebrates global leaders who are driving transformational change on critical social and environmental issues. Today we have 10 laureates that have been celebrated, one of whom is our keynote speaker, Johann Brockstrom, a foremost climate change scientist and also architect of the Planetary Boundaries framework. So we're really honoured to have him here today. And I'd also just like to really welcome the founder and director of the Hillary Institute, Mark Prane. The genesis of today's session for the Edmund Hillary Fellowship is a recognition that the climate crisis is an absolutely defining moment for every one of us. And what we wanted to do was to bring together a convene, a shared conversation to build a shared understanding of what it means for us as a country and how might we collaborate for collective impact. Our facilitator today is the fabulous fellow Rod Orham, who is one of New Zealand's foremost business journalist and climate change commentators, who was a part of our founding cohort at the Edmund Hillary Fellowship. And Rod is, believe it or not, joining us from managed isolation, having just flown back from COP26. So look, before we kick off and I hand over, there are just a couple of housekeeping issues. We will be recording and live streaming the main part of the session. So if I could just cue the recording to start. We do ask you to stay on mute when you're not speaking and to try and just limit background noise and interruptions if possible. We are going to have lots of opportunities for interactions and for questions. We just would ask that you use the raise hand function on Zoom to moderate questions. Just unmute yourself when prompted to speak. Alternatively, you can, of course, post a question in chat. After the session, we will be publishing a summary and next steps invitation. So please do look out for that. We also have a shared notes document that the team will share in chat now. Now this is an open document where we will be harvesting ideas, questions and will note insights for the publishing report. So feel free to add your ideas and to use that. So now I'd just like to hand over to Rod Oren and thank you, Rod, so much for taking the time to lead this amazing session today. Well, Atamari, a peaceful morning to you all. It's a great pleasure to be online and it's also a great pleasure to be home. It's been an amazing trip up to Glasgow and back and I come back with a greater enthusiasm and determination for the task. But of course, even steelier-eyed about what needs to be done. During the course of this session, we'll dwell a lot on what was going on at COP and what the opportunities are for us as New Zealand. But it basically comes down to two themes about how we respond in urban New Zealand and how we respond in terms of our natural ecosystems and the rest. And also how we've organised the breakout sessions afterwards. But it's a huge pleasure to start with having Johann Rockström online with us from Berlin. Johann was a founding director of the Stockholm Resilience Centre and there he and his colleagues did extraordinarily important work on establishing the planetary boundaries, the limits of Earth's living systems that we have to make sure we live within. And if you haven't yet seen the recent Netflix documentary with Johann and Sir David Attenborough, please do because that's a wonderful expression of that really important science. These days, Johann is director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Berlin and is continuing his great leadership globally on climate issues. And of course, Johann was at COP and it's going to be fascinating to hear his assessment of what COP achieved and what tasks it's given us. Johann knows us quite a bit because in 2017 he was the Henry Laureate that year in recognition for his global leadership on climate issues. And then he joined us in New Zealand in 2018 at our new frontiers get-together and he was incredibly generous with his time and also very busy speaking to government during his visit. And out of that came the planetary boundaries report for New Zealand, which I believe is the first time that the global framework and data has been downsampled to deliver a country report and it's a fundamentally important one because it shows how enormously we're breaching many, many critical planetary boundaries. And thank you very much for joining us rather late in your evening in Berlin. A great welcome to you and we're very keen pleased to hear your thoughts. Thank you. Over to you. Yeah, thanks. Thanks Rob and thanks Rosalie and great to be with you. I wish we were physically together. I had such a wonderful time at Aotearoa and just for the first time experiencing your beautiful part of planet Earth. It was extraordinary and the way you took care of me and all the Edmund Hillary Fellows it just shows what an enormously dynamic and an innovative programme you're running. So congratulations to all your great work. What I wanted to do is kind of walk through in basically four segments. First just give you a little bit of a scientific background where we stood when we came to Glasgow basically on the global climate crisis and then talk through my perspective on COP26 and what happened in Glasgow and then what does this imply for our stewardship of planet Earth and the planetary boundaries and finally say something about exponentials in the journey in the next nine years of this decade. So if we start in the crisis I think it's really important just to be absolutely calibrated before having any reflections on COP26 that with the sixth assessment of the IPCC and with tremendous advancements in the biodiversity research of the Intergovernmental Panel on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services and all the advancements and research on tipping points there's no other conclusion than what has been drawn up by so many colleagues, scientific colleagues around the world that we are not only in a climate crisis we have a planetary emergency. And why would you as a scientist that normally is so careful on how we weigh confidence levels and probabilities and risks and language come to that dramatic conclusion? Well how do we define emergency? Well an emergency as as you all know is risk multiplied by lack of time. So if your house is burning you call that an emergency because it's a catastrophic risk multiplied by it is really, really time limited you have to hurry and go very quick. Science has been focusing on risk for 30 years and risk is as you all know probability times impact. So even low probability occurrences can have high risk if the impacts are unacceptable like for example having 2m sea level rise for low lying neighbouring countries to New Zealand disappearing is an unacceptable impact so therefore even a low probability even a probability below 1% would be a high risk and I would even call it catastrophic risk. And that's how science has been focusing in all its research for decades and this is where the red embers diagrams come up and as you may know over the past four IPCC assessments 20 years of science 2001 third assessment of science that risk assessment was that really, really catastrophic risks would only occur at five, six degrees Celsius of global warming which basically meant that the risk assessment from science was that was a nonexistent risk it was a very, very low probability because nobody was suggesting that we were moving towards five, six degrees Celsius of warming I mean for heaven's sake that's a place we haven't been in for the past eight, nine million years. 20 years later 2018 the 1.5 degrees Celsius report and then comes the sixth assessment of the IPCC and the red embers risk analysis is down at two degrees. So the scientific advancements the more we learn about the coupled self-regulating biophysical earth system and all the planetary boundaries we must conclude that even in the mainstream of science because IPCC is as you know the consensus across the entire scientific community that actually the catastrophic risk threshold is now coming uncomfortably close very close into the Paris range actually and if you then combine that with the IPCC six assessment conclusion that are remaining global carbon budget to have any chance of landing of a safe landing around 1.5 is only 400 billion tons of carbon dioxide which translates to only 9.5 years of remaining emissions at current rate of fossil fuel burning you talk of run of time having run out so you have evidence today that time is running out we've reached the decisive decade for humanity's future on earth the only chance to now have a safe landing is a fundamental immediate turnaround multiplied by approaching catastrophic risk equals emergency so the planetary emergency is not something that has come let's say just as a kind of a lightweighted conclusion it is based on tremendous careful assessment and is we conclude in the scientific community at large the position we're in right now so that's what we had in a luggage in our mental luggage when we went to Glasgow we had all the evidence that nine out of the 15 tipping element systems that we know not only regulates the climate system but also have thresholds and if you push them too far they can cross tipping points among those 15 you know them you have the green and ice sheet you have the Arctic summarise you have the jet stream you have the overturning of heat in the North Atlantic you have the whole El Nino system you have West Antarctic ice shelf the Amazon rainforest all the big biophysical systems that we've now learnt not only regulates the state of the planet that's why they have to stay within a safe operating space of planetary boundaries but also they have multiple stable states and they have so far for 12,000 years since we left the last ice age been on the right side of the fence in support of humanity why? Well because they have so called negative feedbacks they dampen and reduce stress posed by external forcing in the past that external forcing was volcanic eruptions, earthquakes and solar orbital forcing today it's our human forcing but the system has been resilient it's been remarkably capable of dampening and reducing impacts now we're seeing cracks in the system you may be aware that one year before COP we're talking now just at the beginning of the pandemic we published a scientific paper mapping all these tipping elements showing that 9 out of 15 are starting to show signs of instability that is, as you can imagine a bit of a scientific nightmare not that they have crossed tipping points but they're showing signs of not being in the resilient healthy state that we depend on among them you have the 15% slow down of the overturning of heat in the North Atlantic which we know with quite high degree of certainty impacts the monsoon systems both over South America and West Africa which as you can imagine can lead to cascades because it can lead to more droughts and forest fires in the Amazon and push the Amazon closer towards a tipping point where it would irreversibly move towards a savanna state you have the accelerated melt of the Arctic summer ice you have the accelerated melt and probably crossing a tipping point in the western Arctic ice shelf you have the tropical coral reef system that you know so well that have been pushed across tipping points in several parts of ocean marine systems across the world the IPCC recognises that 5 of these are now tipping points we cannot rule out but the next slide is showing signs of instability I draw a line there but just say that this is the mental state of science coming to Glasgow so it's not surprising therefore that science with civil society and of course all their voices from youth signals very clearly that this is the moment this is our last chance not to avoid that the planet falls over an escarpment but our last chance to align all countries' plans with science of course we don't solve the climate crisis at a climate negotiations but this was the moment 6 years of the Paris to close the books on all the outstanding issues in the Paris Agreement but also update all the nationally determined contributions the NDC plans so that we could see a real credible plan towards a safe landing this was the moment and we even set up a list of what had to be fulfilled in Glasgow and I'll kind of walk through those but what was then the high level outcome from my perspective of Glasgow well I've tended to summarise it in the following way so we go to Glasgow following a path towards disaster so that's what I've been summarising we know that has been calculated in quantitative terms as well as you know that we are at a 50% likelihood not able to land lower than 2.7 degrees celsius which is a place we haven't been in for the past 4 million years so clearly a catastrophic outcome we leave Glasgow what I would assess to be a pathway to danger so what we accomplished in Glasgow was to go from disaster to danger we went from a 2.7 pathway towards a potential 1.9 degrees celsius pathway and that is still in the red embers range that I mentioned earlier but it's of course a significant accomplishment I would say that Glasgow was a very significant step forward but it's only one partial step now we have to kind of keep the momentum going because we're certainly not on a safe path and remember that the if is enormous because the 1.9 calculation is very optimistic it assumes that all countries deliver exactly what they promised in their NDCs their updated NDCs that were brought forward to Glasgow they fulfil all the pledges and I walk through the most important ones on deforestation on coal phase out that that has to be basically delivered in full but most importantly all countries that have promised net zero pathways and emission reduction quantifications to 2030 have to deliver on those as well and I say that because most of those are outside of the NDCs they're not kind of legally bound they're not tied into the national plans they are kind of pledges outside potentially kind of a lesser legal weight but if all of this is delivered upon we have made a significant step forward I mean going from 2.7 to a 1.9 pathway means bending the global curve emissions and it means starting to follow the path that New Zealand has put itself towards that the European Union has decided as well namely a roughly 50% reduction of emissions by 2030 and continue cutting emissions by half each decade to have a net zero point around 2050 did you know that 90% 90% of global emissions are today actually connected to zero net zero pathways that is rarely communicated but actually the United States the European Union China and India have set net zero pathways these are the four largest emitting regions in the world and not only that three of them are the world largest economies in the world the European Union, China and the US sure India 2070 is 20 years too late sure China latest 2060 it is too late sure China still is involved in investments on fossil fuels abroad sure we don't have Russia on board properly Indonesia on board properly there is more engagement from Brazil Canada and Turkey but still when you look at the numbers the pledges that are now on the table are actually quite significant slash remarkable that we now have an agreement on over 100 countries in the world having committed to halt deforestation by 2030 New Zealand being one of them this covers 85% of forests on planet earth of course there's really really good reason to be skeptical whether this will be delivered upon but it's quantitative and it's now in place the methane pledge that New Zealand also joined of a 30% reduction of methane emissions by 2031 90 countries two thirds of the global economy included is also significant sure we are lacking India Russia and China who are not on board and it's a significant critical mass of countries moving forward over 40 countries commit to phase out coal and of course again the largest coal economies are not on board like Australia India China the US but I think that I share actually even though it's a bit of a popular statement but I do share prime minister Boris Johnson statement that this is probably the death bell on coal it's the writing is on the wall and why is this well it is of course because the market parity in comparison with renewable energy systems have been passed even without subsidy so it's not worth investing in coal and just look at what's happening in New Delhi as we speak when the Indian Government has to shut down schools for weeks because of the air pollution that is now basically making New Delhi impossible to live in so we have you know a momentum and if you pack on top of that 130 trillion that Mark Carney was able to kind of rally around the financial asset alignment with 1.5 the fact that we at least now have the 100 billion in the green climate fund it's far from enough but it's at least a kind of a step forward the fact that we've closed the Paris all of this together I think is significant but it can only mean something if you then link it to Rob's point here in the beginning which is the atmosphere in Glasgow you know the atmosphere in Glasgow is in you know I've been like many of you to too many cop meetings and this is probably the first cop meeting I have ever been to that has two features that are compared to previous cop meetings number one for the first time at least in my experience you know the countries are not battling over the direction of travel the direction of travel is the Paris agreement we're battling over the speed by which we are moving towards the goal meaning that all countries in the world are kind of swimming along the same swimming lane it's just that they're in a constructive position to be in many journalists and media chose to be very critical to India that put a spanner in the wheel you know one minute to midnight by this concern over fossil phase out when they wanted to have a phase down well you know of course you can be critical but but you know one should also recognise that two days 50% of their energy mix for electricity coming from renewables by 2030 and they set out a net zero pathway to 2070 and and we know scientifically that this was not a lightweight decision they took there was a lot of analytics behind before Prime Minister Modi could could step forward with that pledge so so they recognise that this is a tough business it's difficult to do this it takes a lot of effort and of course it's a tremendous challenge politically to to pull away the rug on all subsidies on coal which is 70% of the energy and electricity provision for all you know Indian average and low incomes households I mean I I came back to stock to Sweden actually after after Glasgow and and and the opposition parties in my little country decided in a in a in a budget decision in Parliament that they had to reduce petrol prices in Sweden because it's too too big threat to to the economy in average households in Sweden so of course one has to have a respect of the fact that this is not a question of fighting over direction it is rather a fight over over the speed of travel and I think we have a little bit too tough on India here because one has to recognise how challenging this is for all rapidly emerging economies in the world so that's on COP26 much left to be done we've certainly not come far enough and I want to say that perhaps the most important sentence in the Glasgow agreement in my mind is the sentence that now says that every country is urged to update their indices every year every year so it's not a kind of a five year waiting point now the momentum has to be with with stood and that's where I think we come into this question what about New Zealand I think I think New Zealand can really help here and be one of those countries that that can show an alignment with science updating regularly I mean you have ambitious plans but they need to be updated to be really aligned with a 50% per decade halving of emissions to be even more forthcoming on the phase out of coal understand that you actually have a trajectory towards increase import of coal rather than decrease so there are of course improvements needed to be done also in New Zealand and then finally just say two words on planetary boundaries I mean how does all this connect with planetary boundaries in a very profound way because we know that there is no safe Paris landing only by phasing out fossil fuels we also need to secure the natural carbon sinks in nature all the tipping elements I talked about before and transition to global food system from the single largest source to becoming a sink a major shift from being a culprit to a solution so that requires coming back into the safe space on water diversity on land and on carbon so you have five of the planetary boundaries required to align with science in order to deliver the 1.5 degree Celsius safe landing therefore I think countries like like New Zealand that are just among a handful of countries together with the Sweden Finland Switzerland the Netherlands Germany who've been trying to really take on board a broad assistance perspective of understanding that the climate landing is about a global sustainability transformation and we have to find ways of doing this in an exponential transformative way because of the speed of travel but we also recognize that this can only be done in ways that give win-win outcomes for health for human well-being for jobs for the economy and I think that's my complete to every political leader and business leader or any group of citizens in the world today to help and continue developing this narrative that I think the Edward Hillary fellowship and the institute is entirely on board on that global sustainability and sustainability in general being the very pathway towards prosperity and equity this is the future that we want and I think that will help us also in keeping the momentum post Glasgow because it is definitely needed. Back to you Rob. Thank you very much indeed Johann that was absolutely superb because you've brilliantly summarized all that was achieved in Glasgow but very realistic about the work ahead can I just pick up on a couple of points very briefly where is that analysis coming from versus I think carbon action tracker was about 2.4 towards the end of COP who's come up with the 1.9 number for what the impact of the NDCs is. Yeah that's a great very important question and if you check the carbon action tracker latest updates they include also the 1.8 and 1.9 and the difference is really important 2.4 is where you land if you only include let's say the formally the formally let's say the formally included pledges so everything that is inside the NDCs then you land at 2.4 but if you add to that everything that happened let's say outside of the negotiating rooms so the Indian net zero pledges the methane pledges the deforestation pledges that happened in the first week outside of the negotiation rooms then you land with the same models at 1.9 so it is also the international energy agency and it is a former colleague at the Potsdam Institute who's now at the Melbourne University Malta Mineshausen who's brought forward those numbers so it's a question of if you bring in everything that has been promised let's say outside of the formal part then it brings down to 1.9 so of course you could argue those are more light weighted or in terms of we can be lesser certain that they will be implemented but I think they should be taken seriously Yes, good thank you for filling that out the second one was you mentioned two big things that were different at this cop versus the other the first one was that there was this strong direction but still an argument over speed was there a second part that's good this just shows it's a late hour here in Berlin sorry for that the second one is very simple I've never seen so many CEOs spend so many days at a climate negotiation as in Glasgow and I've not counted them you wanted to count the average age let's join forces Rob I'll count the CEOs and you'll count the age I mean Paris was extraordinary we know this this was where the World Business Council of Sustainable Development where we mean business behind the scenes helped the political leadership to come to the Paris Agreement but in Glasgow I think it was so significant to see CEOs from big multinationals to smaller SMEs not only come and leave and this is significant because it's obvious that they're there because they see that's where let's say the markets that's where the demand that's where the preferences that's where the innovation space that's where the finance is moving so that was the kind of the buzz around the meeting with regards to innovation and industry thank you let me turn to Kirsty could you unmute yourself please and then love to hear your question you're very quiet let me try how's that hi Yohan my name is Kirsty I'm an industry business innovation employment in Wellington my question was actually slightly peripheral to this but around the eight months it report so it's been a couple of years since it came out and I was wondering you know in those two two years since it's been released if the scientific thinking has changed around any of the recommendations that were made in that report the authors and the scientific community still stand by those recommendations or perhaps have been tweaked a little bit since it's received some feedback no thanks so this is the Eat Lancet commission that for the first time brought forward a scientific definition of what we call the planetary health diet to try and define quantitatively a healthy diet from sustainable food system as a frame for all regions and cultures around the world I would argue that the science around the Eat Lancet commission still stands it was quite actively used and referred to during the United Nations food system summit earlier this year and I can share with you which is not public yet so this is kind of an informal slash confidential piece of information that we are now going to launch a version 2 an update so Eat Lancet commission 2.0 because the science is advancing and we want to make an update but also work much more with regional analysis of what does healthy and sustainable diets imply for different food cultures geographies nations in the world and that will very likely be announced at the World Economic Forum in January so we are kicking off a next phase of the Eat Lancet work that's very good to hear because the first report was amazingly wonderfully influential and we've still got a lot of work to do here in New Zealand to shift the thinking on amongst our farmers who remain very resistant to reducing methane so that's an update on Eat Lancet. I know you've got to go off to another meeting you tell me if there's time for one more quick question or whether you need to scoot. I can take one more question so that's a great trade. No, that's fine. Thank you. Peter Toronga, lovely to see you online. Your question, please. Kia ora, Johann. I asked in 2018 at the New Frontiers Conference if you could measure anything if it was possible to measure anything what would have the most impacts. I think your answer was real-time biodiversity. I'm wondering if you would update that or revise it now or if you stick by it again. That's a great follower, Peter. Great to see you again. I'm almost a bit sorry to say that if I get that question again which you're posing, I think my answer would still be real-time monitoring of what we call biosphere integrity but the richness of species and the stability of resilience of the living biosphere. What I would perhaps tilt towards though today compared to what we met last time is the ocean to really dive into the ocean because we are working right now and that's one of the things that the AR-6 the IPCR-6 also identified that the big question mark is if we succeed in phasing out fossil fuels and halting emission of greenhouse gases the big greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide how will the earth system respond and all climate models show quite optimistically that the oceans will basically mop up large parts of the damage caused by us basically by absorbing carbon dioxide and that the biological pump in the ocean will gradually have carbon sinking down to the sea floor and we're many, many scientists and I'm not an oceanographer but many, many oceanographers that are quite concerned about that analysis. If you would meet Sylvia Earl my big hero on ocean exploration and science she will tell you that we know so little about the living biological parts of the ocean and what role we play in all the nutrient cycling and the carbon cycling and thereby the stability of the planet so I think I would probably dive down into the ocean but answer roughly the same in the same way. Fabulous question and terrifically interesting answer thank you. We're very conscious we've got the fourth largest EEZ in the world and very special oceans for the South Pacific and the Southern Oceans so a very big task there for us, thank you we should let you go but as ever thank you hugely for your huge knowledge and wisdom but also with the fantastic clarity with which you communicate that which is cold-eyed and realistic but very empowering as well and gets us off to a very good start this morning so thank you go well and we look forward to staying in touch wonderful to be with you good luck during the day, bye everyone thanks Johan well that really was a superb session and as ever Johan is completely extraordinary about his ability to be constantly learning and analysing and recalibrating reassessing and never hesitates to tell us when the facts or new focuses emerge that we have to take a very careful pay very careful attention to and thank you for the two wonderful questions there as well now it's a great pleasure to turn to Vicky Robinson Secretary of the Ministry for the Environment and also of course a fellow and it's wonderful to have Vicky in those dual roles to which I'd add a third as to one of the founders the Aotearoa circle which is very importantly putting natural capital at the centre of so many decisions that government and business make and making very good progress on that first of all on sustainable finance and now road maps emerging for food systems and transport and the like so Vicky wonderful to have you with us and over to you koutou katoa nō uri na tahu aho Vicky Robinson aho tatumu pakari manatū mototau so I'm the Secretary of the Environment as Rod said great to be with you today and always lovely to see EHF fellows I'm always buoyed by the optimism that comes with being with a group of fellows so I'm great to see you all today always hard to follow your hand so I'm going to drop us down into Aotearoa and what's happening here with that global context in mind which is really important for us all to remember and I'll start with a couple of things that Johann said one is agree with him on the climate climate denial now is really around the pace of change and that is as much for New Zealand as it is around the world and the argument in New Zealand goes something like this we're one of the best in the world and we've got a different profile than the rest of the world special and therefore our contribution we need to be careful about our contribution in the world we need to see what other people are doing and saying that to the second part I would agree with Johann is in New Zealand we have this unique opportunity to think about it not just as a climate change issue for us but actually the system of change to happen so on land the things that we do to affect our climate outcomes also help with our nitrogen outcomes biodiversity and our water quality outcomes so for a small country we can think in that systems way and I think that's one of the opportunities EHF fellows can actually step into and helping us come to some solutions there so just I'm you know I try and be optimistic because I think we need to be dealers in hope that we can actually crack this in the next decade or so and I think Aotearoa New Zealand is well positioned of course there's much more we can do and there is lots that we haven't done so we are starting from a place where we need to build action really quickly just a reminder that we have a strong architecture in New Zealand which I'm starting to see really get us on the right track for climate action so our architecture with a zero carbon act which sets targets for the country domestic targets international targets are important but it's our domestic targets that will drive action in New Zealand that I think are incredibly important for us so we have that as part of our architecture we have the Climate Commission an independent body who provides us on what our budgets should be to meet those targets but also monitors how we're going and they have a role in adaptation as well so we're starting to see that architecture really both give us a strong view of what is needed but also we'll start to monitor how we're going so I think that's a really good successful model and we're using others experience in that UK model as it's modeled on their approach so we've had the Climate Commission's first advice on what the budgets, this is basically how much emissions we need to reduce over five-year periods to start to meet the targets in the next while we've had that advice they also helpfully did advice on or gave some indication of some demonstration pathways that showed existing technology we could actually meet those targets so they've done their work and now it's the job of Government to look at what the plan should be and we are currently consulting on emissions reduction plan so that's the architecture piece and I think it is really good you'll notice if any of you looked at emissions reduction plan it's out for consultation at the moment there's a gap between that plan and what the budgets are that we need to meet to do in terms of the plan and our vision level particularly in this first period where we need to really get action going quickly the reason why I'm just focusing on that is because that plan will set out what is needed for the next 15 years and it's not just what Government needs to do this is going to be a whole of society effort and the important point in there your harm was alluding to is we need a plan and an action that brings everybody along the impacts of climate change will disproportionately fall on different parts of the community our vulnerable parts of our community Māori and Pacifica in particular and others that we cannot afford and we shouldn't ignore the need to bring them along in the journey but also make sure that we make change happen that allows them to be part of that as well so other action that's happened in the last little while that Rod alluded to one is on the public sector side I'll call it public sector but it's actually dealing with process heat in hospitals and in schools so coal boilers there's also a fund starting to get into process heat in the private sector so a good start there but your hands right approach to coal needs to we need to keep on that track we also first country to introduce mandatory disclosures of climate risk now that is a significant shift in what will the board conversations boards will be having about the future financial risk of climate change and that's a significant shift I think and will impact at board level across the country we also have done legal opinions through the Aotearoa Circle around the liability of directors for climate risk so quite a significant this is an academic exercise something that New Zealand can think about in the future too it's here, it's now, we need to think about it we need to have plans and actions in place so significant shift in there the other thing I alluded to is that revolution I would say in New Zealand two years ago we had no system of sustainable finance at all we didn't talk about it I've been arguing with Treasury even when I was in there about having green bonds we didn't have any sort of basically was this is a market that New Zealand doesn't need and yet there were trillions of dollars floating around the world around investment in sustainable finance so through the Aotearoa Circle we have unlocked that and now we see banks offering different types of loans for sustainable action we've got the Treasury announcing last week a green bond in their own portfolio we have a different approach to funding and financing and there's more coming in the emissions reduction plan we've got agreement to of ETS revenue that is a significant shift in approach to tax revenue it's not going to be enough to meet our climate action plans but it's a significant change in mindset about how do we deal with and recognition I think that this is an emergency in New Zealand so in saying all of that whole lot of action needs to happen so I'm less interested in debating targets and I'm more interested in the action plan from here and I think that's where New Zealand needs to focus because that's where our opportunity is to be world leaders and some of the things that need cracking in terms of climate response so in the ERP for you EHF fellows I would really look into both the targets that within sectors we're going for and also the opportunities that exist within those sectors so you'll see a lot in the transport space and the shift not just to electrification of vehicles but the shift people out of cars and how do we do that and energy that's a big space even though we're very renewable energy in New Zealand there is still a huge amount of opportunity in the energy space and I know I talked to fellows a few years ago and said that's the biggest issue but now I'm revising my view on that and thinking that actually energy is one of our critical areas where New Zealand could crack some changes here and you've got a new chair and a commoner who is actually into a different way of flying could New Zealand be the world leaders in the domestic fleet that is an electrified fleet for example in the waste area and a few of you are in that space so the commission budget basically puts quite a lot more responsibility on the waste sector for methane reduction so it's about 11% over the period of the budgets and it's people know that we are starting from scratch on waste New Zealand is one of the highest waste producers in the OECD per capita so we have currently a waste strategy out and we are looking at changes in waste legislation but there's going to be a whole lot of investment in shifting both at the top end of the hierarchy which is getting people out of buying crap in the first place but also in what or how do we deal with our waste and methane is a big part of that and then finally the chapter on ag is light and so I'll say the positive on ag so the opportunities in there for New Zealand is cracking the approach to methane and there's a question about how you do that I think at some point we also will need to think about land use change and that goes to Kirsty's question about our food system and how impacts on environment more generally and how do you think about the mix of what you're growing we have currently a backstop in legislation in 2025 agriculture comes into the ETS for its emissions but it comes in in that legislative backstop at 95% free allocation so that's the legislative backstop that all comes in in 2025 and that will happen we'll be the first in the world to put a price on agriculture emissions however it's only at 5% so probably won't impact at a pricing way on the level of emissions in agriculture at that level currently we have a partnership going on considering other options other than that backstop the critical eyes on that is that actually could we get a better result that actually incentivise farmers to reduce emissions and basically rewards them for doing that the other part of ag system is which I know a lot of the fellows are interested in is the farm system change so under the climate commissions modelling if we could by a certain day and I think it was with 2020 have all farmers at best practice farm system level then that would have quite an impact on their contribution to emissions there's some debate about that but I think the point I would say on that is farmers believe in New Zealand that they are best in world and practice and our challenge is to keep them better in the world in that practice and farm system change regenerative agriculture what does that mean how do you get integrity around that I think is absolutely an opportunity and we're seeing quite a shift in the top farmers on that so I just I think that's probably all I wanted to say Rod I'm happy to take questions as well the planetary boundaries work we did with Yohan and we did as EHF fellows actually with MFE backing and that is on our website there is some difficulty in New Zealand because it's a it's a per capita type model but it is worth having a look at in terms of the safe boundaries and showing that at a New Zealand level we're exceeding those boundaries on a number of the planetary boundaries approach across nitrogen for example and in our water quality so none of that is a surprise but it's worth having a look at in a different way of thinking about things so that's probably all I wanted to say happy to take questions I think there was one in the chat now yes thank you Vicky I'm going to ask one quick question if I may extend is biodiversity and ecosystems coming through in the emissions reduction plan in terms of making sure we focus on rebuilding those and push harder towards establishing credits for them and other financial flows into those yeah and I think this is I don't think as strong as it could be and I think that's mainly because it's a little bit like when we first got into the sustainable finance conversation it feels a bit like we're not sure how that we can make that happen but I think there's more that we could do in terms of nature by solutions we are looking at how do you get biodiversity credits both from a climate point of view but also from a biodiversity point of view and that work is being undertaken at the moment and I think there's some exciting things that could happen in there and people outside of the public sector they say well of course there's a market here and people are really wanting it it's just how do we actually get that up and running I think is our challenge but welcome absolutely welcome thoughts and ideas around how do we accelerate some of that change as well thank you and just picking up on Johan's very important observations about oceans the government is not planning to do work on our first oceans policy until next term should they win the next election can you give us a bit more of a feel for what the thinking is within MFE and elsewhere in government on oceans policy yeah and I think to be honest I think the dance card of change at the moment across a number of fronts is quite large so we're doing the start of this climate change action we're doing resource management reform still doing fresh water implementation of fresh water quality and the waste area so I think there's just a feeling at the ministerial level with COVID the ability for our constituent communities to engage on another big issue it might be too much so what they've decided to do is work on some specific things on oceans in this term of government with an eye to thinking about this as the next and I think for MFE our capacity to do this is limited right now but absolutely recognise the role of oceans not just for climate change but actually it's an area that we don't know a lot about in our own environmental reporting we know some things but we don't know a lot so to Yohan's questions about what is the impact if we're successful about greenhouse gas reduction on our oceans we'd be struggling to answer that for New Zealand so there's a lot of work to do and I think a lot of opportunity to partner with others to help us get those pieces of work on the agenda for next term no matter what form we've got OK thank you Bex you've got a question in the chat box would you like to ask Fiki yourself rather than me reading about particularly about the vulnerable communities one? Yeah sure Fiki you touched earlier on the aspects of the fact that we've got vulnerable communities both in a socio demographic way but also in a geographical sense and there are a number of communities obviously this is quite top of mind for us here in Otatahi because there's an adaptation framework that's been posed to the coastal communities and I think there's tens of thousands of people Christchurch coastal wards that are now being imminently impacted by the impacts of climate change and I guess my question is around what are the national conversations happening around mitigation at this point because I think that my observation living in one of these geographically compromised areas is that the approach is quite ad hoc and it actually is it's quite changeable even between suburbs in the same city so I'd love to know what conversations are happening at their level around that mitigation piece Do you mean adaptation? Well it either so whether we're talking about management retreat or we're talking about stop banks and flooding mitigation measures whatever it is that those conversations are happening at a national level for the people who are living in areas that are already actually at quite imminent risk Yeah So there's three things I'd say about that there's been a national risk assessment which has 43 risks across the country and government are working through basically a national adaptation plan that is due mid next year around all of those risks and so that kind of gives a sense of how we might approach those We also under the resource management reform program the third leg of that is a new climate change adaptation act that won't be passed this term but it starts to get into managed retreat and whose responsibility it is because at the moment it's really unclear and the sticking point in there is who funds and finances manage retreat when it's needed Also in that reform getting really clear on council's responsibility around climate change so at the moment they don't officially have a responsibility a legal responsibility under any act for climate change adaptation so getting really clear about those responsibilities is really so the architecture getting that in place but to your point about this is happening for communities right now how do we engage with them and we have some work going with a group it's called Iharangi it's through the iwi chairs forum particularly with Māori communities about understanding and awareness around how climate change is going to impact their communities so doing data work around flyovers to show how that's going to impact communities and starting to engage them in a conversation around what does that mean for them what are their approaches to that that's in early days and I wonder whether that's also a bit of a blueprint for how we might talk to other communities as well but we wanted to start with the Māori communities generally speaking are going to be hard as hit in the rural and small areas thank you and AJ you've got your hand up I'd love to hear your question please oh hi thanks Mark sorry though yes so the I'm sort of grappling with how exactly to formulate this without treating on too many toes so let me just tread on toes and people can throw shoes at me as appropriate I'm often quite frustrated by the way it seems like when we get together and have conversations around facing the future confronting the future dealing with the future what we actually seem to be doing is walking backwards into it we constantly have our eyes on the past which is fine for information but we always seem to be solving yesterday's problems saying we're going forward and as anybody who spent a lot of time walking around town backwards will know the only real question there is how long does it take for we fall on our backside and for instance one of the things that's popped up already between Johan and yourself Fiki is the conversation let's say around our dairy sector our methane emissions our agriculture I have my own pit project but I'm not going to talk about that one in the effort to try and avoid being that guy who always talked about his pit project so I'm going to talk about or offer a question about agriculture in a way we talk about reducing methane reduction from dairy and from agriculture we talk about New Zealand's farmers being the most efficient in the world which you really have to wiggle yourself around some particular linguistic blocks to make that true it's true so long as we forget that we then have to export our product to wherever the market is on a refrigerated or dried dairy basis the actual futurists if you like Johan and the Lancet folks don't say the solution is about reducing the amount of methane coming out of dairy it's about saying stop eating dairy you know where is the what's the appetite for the actual solution which might just be to stop doing a harmful thing rather than trying a 20% reduction the amount of harm it puts out is there any appetite perhaps I put it in the government phrasing is there any appetite for solutions that are actually solutions as opposed to merely politically palatable mitigations you know I have to give a full credit to the ECCA campaign for instance they say stop doing the things that are damaging but there seems to be very little follow-through on that it all seems to be about tinkering around the edges and 20% reductions here and 8% reductions there when some of the more simple solutions might be steering us in the face but just not so they tread on toes perhaps I feel a little bit like with the dairy conversation we're having a conversation in the 50s about if we just put filters on the end of cigarettes that'll fix everything I think don't really want to I think it's a really good question and a good challenge and I think it's something we should be asking ourselves across all sectors so even in the I overheard it so in waste for example we're trying to phase out plastic stickers on fruit so I heard a whole lot of reasons why we desperately need plastic stickers on fruit to differentiate our product overseas so I mean each sector makes various arguments on this I think the thing we try and I mean obviously there's a political thing here and I can't speak to that but there's a real balance between how do you bring communities along with you who are big and invested in their current state and create change at the same time and I think this is the opportunity for EHF I always think about change happens from those at the edge so how do we get the edge happening more and most of my life is spent with those in the middle and trying to regulate those up to a certain level I don't think that creates innovation I don't think that creates real change at a really fundamental level but it does change the dial if you like so I think that's where I've always been an advocate of EHF fellows really leaning into the edge of what's needed in Aotearoa and creating change that people can see and feel and not be then afraid of making the shift and that's I think the because otherwise if you don't people have got nothing to fill the vacuum with and so they fill it with fear and we don't get change you see that with vaccinations and unvaccinations right if it's a fear based conversation then people fill that with all sorts of things that aren't real I mean I think on the if MFB have gone out on a limb and said the way we produce food is impacting New Zealand's environment and that has been we've got quite hammered on that it's not your job you shouldn't be saying that how do you, our food system is best in the world but we have to deal in the science of what's actually happening so I think that's my answer to that without getting political about it or giving any personal opinion I think the challenge exists across our economy in all sectors it's a good question keep asking now in terms of other questions we've got about 15 minutes and I can see that there's about 63 people online but if you've got your video off I can't see your hand up so if you'd like to ask a question please do just switch your video on and put your hand up and I've got two that's fantastic and indeed I knew that Tabisa was one of those people so wonderful to see you online and your question please Yes so I want to ask what kind of environmental evaluation tools or methods do you use in New Zealand right now that informs particularly you say mitigation, mitigation so what is that informed by and is it demand side based or supply side based meaning along the lines of energy evaluation where you can actually get to know the dollar value of each and every natural resource and see it go down and be able to come up with systemic healing solutions because governments as we know from systemic thinking tend to want to balance as a mitigation as opposed to heal over time and let it reinforce so maybe I'll just stop there Yeah that's a great question and I think we are still developing our tools I would say so we don't have a natural capital approach per se but under the wellbeing framework or the living standards framework there are indicators that are used in that framework including a shadow price for emissions that is intended in thinking about any policy we're supposed to evaluate with a shadow price what happens if you don't or if you do go with this policy in terms of emissions so that's a start but probably doesn't go quite to where you were indicating Thank you Jennifer I see your question in the chat but please do ask it that would be lovely thank you Hi nice to meet you can you hear me okay? Yes my name is Jennifer Wilkins I work in impact management and look at emerging practices and business sustainability so my question is really focused on Black Friday which is coming up next week we can have a lot of retailers selling a lot of text styles and electronics and things like that on the issue of a border carbon tax on imported goods because that might be quite a good mechanism to reduce embodied carbon on imports and also reduce consumption Thanks I agree on the Black Friday issue in fact I went into a toy shop with my mokapuna last week and I was horrified I obviously haven't been in one for a few years but that's the imported carbon tax is not something we're looking at at the moment and probably more from a trade perspective than anything else although the conversations in those trade agreements are starting to come with not quite tax barriers to importation across countries but are having like there's a climate chapter in the current UK agreement for example so we're not looking at that specifically but I think it is being raised as an issue through the trade agreements at the moment Jennifer, if I might just chip in a thought on that obviously the people to watch the EU are very serious about carbon border adjustment mechanisms and the next phase of their work is going to be coming out in another few months time and they're going to be the real test as to how other countries respond speaking personally I'm disappointed that New Zealand which has always been on the leading edge of the intellectual processes around trade and being very articulate about what needs to happen in trade I'm disappointed that we're lagging on this very seriously and it would be a very good issue for us to put some effort behind but I'm disappointed thanks Adam, you had your hand up and your picture up at one point there you are Adam, are you home in Toronto? Yes, home in Toronto Wishing I was watching Rachel in Nelson and just wishing I was there hearing the birds in the background it's a cold day here Good evening Vicky, nice to work in the built environment and have spent the last few years very deeply enmeshed in the housing issues in New Zealand and the interconnected layers of inefficiencies that drive our housing system in New Zealand is pretty well documented pretty well known a real opportunity for the government to facilitate amongst the few players within the industry, larger players a thought process around decolonisation decarbonisation and I'm wondering if I mean I'm wondering if any of the discussions are really about, really systems change on that level in the development sector we're doing a study right now here in Ontario, first in the world that's looking at embodied energy within existing building practice and the study is preliminary but right now it's looking like with very little change we can get to a net carbon sink in our wood frame buildings with very little change in finance dollars, that's not the same in New Zealand we've looked at it and New Zealand we lack product and we lack diversity so there's a whole other issue but it seems to me the way to approach the issue within housing within New Zealand is really to take to start encouraging consensus amongst stakeholders to focus on the outcomes that we're looking for which means changing the minds of some very large companies and I'm wondering if those discussions are going on yet or even being considered because in our sector the housing sector I just don't see a way through unless we change the very roots of the system I have to agree with you Adam I think the conversations and what I would call nascent so we've just I think through the I think we have an entry in through the emissions production plan with a building and construction sector chapter and that's starting to raise exactly what you are talking about and last week we had an engagement with some of the private sector in that industry and thinking about how we do do that conversation through the construction sector accord as well and it's interesting I mean I was talking to somebody the other day who's doing a whole housing development through Māori iwi and asking them what's your approach on lowering your emissions profile through that housing and they said oh it increases the cost and we can't do it right now we just need the houses so I absolutely agree it's a mindset shift it is possible it's one of those how do we build it so they come type conversations and a huge amount of energy could be into that they're not wrong everything costs in the short term it's going to take some government intervention I believe or at least intervention to build consensus amongst the players because the analysis in New Zealand currently is yes it's almost impossible right now with the current market conditions but those market conditions can be changed through consensus yeah thank you that's really helpful well yes thank you and if I may turn to Peter Renhilton to see you online Peter and as you'll see on Peter's picture there he's advertising a very fabulous conference coming up in 2035 but in the meantime Peter is doing substantial amount of leadership in the agritech space so Peter what's your sense in terms of your agritech colleagues about the focus on technology to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from farming but then also on the positive side of the ledger well that's positive but the positive side of the ledger be able to measure for example soil carbon cheaply effectively and precisely well first of all Rod thank you very much for the opportunity to talk and answer those questions you'll be pleased to know that the 2035 conference is actually taking place in Auckland in April so we're not having to wait quite that far but the issue that you raise is a really valid one and it goes back to some of the points I've been listening to in the last kind of hour I think one of the big questions is very often some of the changes we need to identify are going to be incremental rather than necessarily revolutionary and one of the things we're trying to do with the 2035 conference is actually bring farmers with us to get buy-in from farmers and I think that's a critical piece and I think coming from the agritech sector one of the issues I had with the climate change commission reports particularly when it came to agriculture was that the focus on technology was actually quite small and I think part of that is because it is still a moving piece we still are looking at things like methane inhibitors, methane vaccines for livestock and one of the issues therefore I think is that a lot of these changes aren't going to happen overnight but step by step they will one of the interesting areas of agritech technology clearly from a New Zealand perspective is one area where potentially we could take some global leadership and I think that's something that is recognised by governments last year they passed the agritech industry transformation plan and the whole idea of that was really to beef up the sector to help farmers and growers address the issues that they face particularly around reducing obviously greenhouse gas emissions but also how do you continue to produce good quality produce in a changing climate and so I'm actually speaking on the session a little bit later today but one of my hats I wear is as co-convener of the Western Growers Global Advisory Board Western Growers members reduce over 50% of all fresh produce in North America and one of the challenges they face particularly in places like California now is not just labour issues but issues around drought and so it's very easy to say let's move from livestock to crops but if you don't have enough water that is a huge issue and so what we're finding in North America right now in states like California is that sectors such as strawberries are beginning to move out of California south to Mexico and further south and that's into LATAM and so there is a huge amount of investment now going into agritechnologies around things like robotics and automation to see how we can begin to address some of those systemic issues so it's not just climate change it's not big issues taking place and I think fundamentally the challenge we face is that by 2050 we know we're going to have 9.7 billion people in the world we need to produce nutritious affordable food but against that backdrop of a changing climate there are a number of challenges and I think agritechnologies got a huge role to play in addressing some of those challenges Thank you Mayor just very quickly ask a follow-up question what we see in sector after sector around the world is sector companies setting themselves extraordinary targets that they have absolutely no idea how to develop the technology to get them there electric vehicles has been a very good example of that and do you feel that the agricultural sector sweeping statement here in general is setting itself those very big goals knowing that if you set those goals that actually is an extraordinary driver of innovation and R&D and also of extraordinary attraction to government and then in later stages private sector money to fast forward there I absolutely think you're right it's really interesting I was actually based in San Francisco back in the early between about 2010 and 2013 and it was only then that the whole concept of this new investment class tech became aware so we've only actually been working with agritech in terms of certainly venture and private funding really for about 10 years and so it's still very, very early days and it was really interesting when I was in the Bay Area to speak to some of the large technology companies who suddenly realised that actually farming and agriculture was no longer just about people getting up at five o'clock in the morning and going into the field of agriculture and digital and suddenly they realised that it was a big thing that they'd missed and they could start applying a lot of the kind of Silicon Valley type technologies to agriculture which is why we've seen that kind of exponential growth in investments into the sector and I think that is something that has been really evident through the whole Covid period the actual amount of investments into agritechnology has increased the huge amounts I think ag funder a online investment kind of a little analytics group detected that two years ago there was something like $12 billion of fresh money coming in in terms of investments the last 12 months that's grown to $20 billion so there is a massive amount of private sector money going into agritechnology to address some of these as I said really big issues and one of those issues is clearly being driven by climate but also just the fact that we need to produce more food to feed a never-growing population with ever declining natural resources and these are some of the issues again without promoting to the 2035 summit too much what we're going to be doing is bringing together researchers from across the greater Oceania region from Australia and New Zealand really to look at some of the research that's currently taking place to see how we can accelerate that research to address some of those key challenges fine thank you and if you're interested in knowing more about what Peter's up to have a quick peek at the chat box because there's a session later on today with the HF fellows about that you're very welcome to join so thank you Vicky very much for being with us and wonderful so much of your time and for all your very helpful insights and knowledge you've passed on to us thank you all for joining us in this session and for the great questions and discussion I'm just going to hand back to Rosalie now to tell us what happens next in the second half of this online programme over to you Rosalie thank you very much Rob, fascinating discussion so look what we're going to do now is we're going to move to a short break so this is a chance to stretch your legs to get a cup of coffee or some breakfast this is also when the live streaming and the recording end so I do want to thank all of you who tuned in what we're going to do after the break because we recognise that there's many of you will be listening you'll have thoughts there will be desire for discussion so what we're going to do is we're creating two themes for the breakout after our five minute stop the action pathway breakouts are really looking at some of the interconnected challenges theme one is really around our urban environments or cities and that's looking at urban form urban precincts transport and of course when you start to think about transport you also have to think about fuels, energy no fuels what and how we build and nature in the city when we get to theme two which is more around nature restoration this is where we have predator free endangered species regenerative agriculture which will of course be a critical area when we're thinking about methane oceans and also thinking here about investment so what we will do is invite you at the end of this to come in you'll be able to choose which one you go into and this will be facilitated with someone taking notes so thank you we just suggest you turn off your video and mute yourself just while we take this break and we'll see you back at 9.35 Thanks very interesting thoughts in those sessions what we'd like to do is just for each of the four teams just for somebody to give a popcorn snapshot just some synthesis and some reflections from what you heard and from what you saw within that within that particular session and maybe if we begin with the urban environment one who was leading in that group I think that was us I wouldn't say I was leading but a couple of strong threads one around the 15 minute cities as a theme, a potential theme for folks to be able to think through their work in context of the challenge from diverse perspectives and I'd love to hear from the other folks in the call but with my EHF head on I think there was real value in just us taking these baby steps to have convened spaces with folks from the New Zealand ecosystem and some fellows on the call but unfortunately we didn't solve urban climate change in 20 minutes Thank you Thank you Any other comments from their team? I'll just jump in because I think to Alec Tang here director of sustainability I just think that we talked about this opportunity to really use the fellows to get around this really important topic that has often been the domain of urbanists and environment and actually we need a broad range of voices industry business and so on to recognise the role that they play in creating these great cities and I think it's not just about a city council it's not just about the government actually the benefit that we see is for everyone and the need for everyone to be involved in creating these low carbon but resilient cities we talked a lot about adaptation and the fact that we're quite exposed here with a lot of coastline and the urgency around those conversations around adaptation we've focused on emissions reduction for a long time that adaptation thing is happening now that we need to really recognise equity and the just transition so from my perspective we have a lot of public housing so how do we recognise the current inequities and that some of our transitions will exacerbate those inequities if we're not careful and sorry one last thing is interconnectedness around transport urban development so we talk about reducing our transport emissions which is massive here in cities to do that we recreate our urban environments we create those 50 minute cities we'll actually tackle that transport emissions problem that we have that look fantastic that's a great summary can we move to the urban environment group too was there anything to add for that I'm not sure he was leaving in that room well it should have been Michelle and I'm responsible for asking too many questions so Michelle do you want to feedback or should I feel free and if you've missed anything I'll add in off my notes yeah thank you it was a wonderfully counterintuitive session because in rethinking urban environments you're thinking about communities physically coming together but both Matthew and Sam and AJ we're all talking about the power of the metaverse of online reality so at the far end of that from AJ's point of view that would be a great way to do virtual tourism for example rather than having to bring people here but Sam's very involved in UNDP work on digital transformations and sees a role there and Matthew is working hard on new models of community and collective ownership for important assets in the urban environment so as I say that's with where our discussion went and if any if any you'd like to add some more please do Matthew go ahead Roy I was just acknowledging that you heard it spot on thank you I need to answer my phone because I'm in isolation I'm probably being summoned for a test hang on a second so while Rod goes and sorts out his quarantine could we go to Nature which was the group 3 Nature and Regeneration that was my group that was all fellows basically every coho was there which was quite cool and Taviso or Veronica if anyone wants to share a bit of what we discussed maybe to try and summarise the conversation started with Eric and Emeline and we talked about measuring different numbers from satellite biodiversity, sedimentation carbon and then we talked about once you can do this you can start making the polluters pay and say people in the public might be able to be like why is the Waimaka Dirty River dirty today while so and so is harvesting their trees or whatever and then to be so pointed out that maybe legal enforcement maybe we should think about pulling people rather than pushing them about how legal mandates people tend to accept if everyone knows it's an emergency if they don't see it as an emergency there might be a lot of pushback so that was really interesting we talked a lot about that and then I can't quite remember how we finished Paula if you want to jump back in but that's about what I remember off the top of my head Then was Taviso talking about the culture point Taviso? Yeah just to add on I think Peter and you captured it well but essentially we had this generative conversation around okay there's the need to deter or you know instill that sense of fear with the legal structures but sometimes there could be maybe a need to balance but more so skewing towards building it in as a culture where people can actually live it just like how when they wake up they brush their teeth it's natural for them to live in cohabitation with the environment in a way in which they don't harm it because they know it will feed them and keeping it safe and the diversity you know working that way can actually reduce all the climate change fears that we have and all the government agencies to try and mitigate but you know we had a great legal expert in our room as well which was fascinating who then mentioned yeah I do know but sometimes to get to quick or to get decisions made quickly or to get behaviour changing quickly we do need to enforce laws but I think Paula summarised it all by giving us an example of Argentina you know with regards to how they legalised same-sex marriage and it became tradition and became part of the culture not quite a harmful thing but with nature sometimes it could be because it has also psychosocial elements that come with those deterrents but it was a great conversation overall and I hope to continue it with many others that were in that room thank you so much to be so thank you and then we'll go to the group that I was a part of would anyone in the team like to perhaps give a summary I wonder Alina you had some great points that you raised yeah we we talked a little bit about the role of story and narrative which as most of you know I'm all about in creating the culture change that's necessary to bring people with us because there has been a lot of focus in the last session on policies tools processes but less so on the actual mindset shift that's required to bring the voting public with us to support those policies and so on yeah sorry Rosalie no there was also what we also talked about was the tracking and the mapping of biodiversity because there are some initiatives that Nathaniel and also Deborah were able to talk to but also recognising and again it came back to communications which is that some of these are being done within a scientific environment and what we're not seeing is that shift from publishing in a science journal into actually creating and telling the story of what the possibility and the impact of that can be and then James is very powerful on oceans and I guess the disappointment of deferring oceans policy given that ocean warming is actually really at the heart of climate change James you spoke is there anything that you'd like to add or just share back to the team well I suppose it's not all negative I mean there's a lot of people doing great work and I think we should just celebrate that if you go to any place you'll be I think less than 170 km from the sea so we are an island nation so we have you know the Crown Research Institutes doing great work the Sustainable Seas National Science Challenge we have Corthron Institutes we have lots of non-profits, community groups from the tip of Cape Ranga all the way down the bluff we have sustainable fisheries organisations from the Chatham Islands to the Hawkes Bay and Bay of Plenty and Coromando and I think we should really celebrate that we have immense taonga species I'm thinking of the Maui Dolphin I'm thinking of penguins six species of penguins, the sea birds we've got an incredible seaweed sector that needs boosting it's just a fragmentation of the policy landscape here is so fragmented that we are just facing a very slow reform process and that needs to be accelerated so we can allow these industries to really boom and I think there's a 3 to 15 billion increased as projected by I think it was the Corthron Institutes and through a Sustainable Seas National Science Challenge project a few years back a report was published on the Blue Economy and there's a real opportunity I think we should really consider that in the coming land instead of cows we need to have fish, more fish and so think of that associated with protection marine protected areas 30%, 40% or more and then we'll have a booming ocean sector sustainable ocean sector which is what the Blue Economy is in line with the SDG-14 and my son agrees cleanly so that's what I wanted to say Listen, thank you and look, I want to thank everybody for your time and just staying with us for the conversation and the chance just to let some of these ideas and things breathe what I'd like to do is just hand back to Rod to give a summary of what we've heard today because Rod, your voice is being so powerful and also you have your own reflections on coq so I'll hand back to you and I'll finish with the Karakia Oh, thank you Rosalie and thank you to all for being very active participants in the conversation today we're at such an amazing moment where there is at last some clarity around the world about what the sort of fundamental goal is as Johann identified and just this extraordinary acceleration of activity and invention and creation going on and yet to some extent we're still in this lull here in New Zealand waiting for the government to come up with its mission to reductions plan now put off from the end of this year and to May of next year but it was very encouraging to hear from Vicky about some of the elements that are going into that but what's developing is this amazing opportunity for us to explore our diversity of EH fellows and our particular passions and skills and to be able to play a really important role in trying to encourage and build up and establish relationships across the country that we can really get some momentum going from a civil society and geo-academic point of view and all the rest to then offer a really big hand to government so the government then delivers the sort of policies and programmes we need and clearly the civil service is really stretched on this in terms of capability to be able to develop all this so I'm hoping that this is going to be a fairly open door from government and that civil society will be bringing ideas that the government will then help us operationalise so a very great moment in time but then crucially for us from an EHF point of view and we've deliberately made the second part of the conversation is of course how we organise ourselves around this where we will start coalescing with particular fellows and what support the fellowship can give and we to each other to be able to take that work forward so that's going to be very much the next part of the conversation but I very much hope this morning has given you a sort of that sense of excitement about the enormous potential for us and of course the enormous need and always a huge treat to have and with us and Vicky too so this is speaking personally I'm just thrilled that we as a small country are a diverse country but we're actually closely connected and it's small democracies that are much bigger, better off the big ones so 8 of the top 10 democracies measured by the EIU they're all countries with 10 million people or less and we've got this huge target of our great natural environment and then our natural capital and then most important of all to our Māori that really deep knowledge and world view about how we humans are just part of that extraordinary web of life and so we have real responsibility to that, it gives us life we are responsible for how we nurture life in that web I find it amazing, exciting how to our Māori is more and more people are drawn to it so I think in all of those elements come together for us here in Aotearoa over the next few years it's going to be an amazing period of transformation and I know that we in the fellowship can really play our part in that Rod, thank you so much and just to give a really personal thanks from everybody here for bringing your wisdom, your insight always beautiful humility and passion and also gritty optimism and what is actually often a very complex and difficult sector so thank you so much particularly when you're in quarantine and probably feeling a bit jet lag particularly after the incredible week of intensity that you had it call so look we will wind up now I just want to remind you about two further upcoming sessions today one is on the potential of climate education and this is really because when we're talking about climate change we have to shift mindsets and behaviours and so this is not just education at a school level or even tertiary but how do we educate professionals and executives and those in positions of leadership to drive change there is an active team of fellows who are looking at this and bringing an international program looking at how we can bring it together integrate to our Māori and such a way that it's very specific to Aotearoa so anyone interested in that area I'd really encourage that you join that and we also have a session we heard from Peter earlier on the 2035 Oceana Submit which will be held in April 22 now that's going to be a large regional gathering of leaders and innovators New Zealand, Australasia and I think it also goes to Asia Pacific working across sectors and climate response and there's a real invitation here to how do we help to be engaged and help to shape this so look thank you all for joining us today there will be a summary published and this is not the end of the conversation it's actually the beginning of the conversation for us so I'd just like to close the session with a tātakiia and release you all to your day unuhia unuhia unuhia kite uru tapune kia wātea kia mama te nākau te tinana te wairua te ara takata thank you all