 Felly, ddwy'n ffordd i chi yn i gweithio'n gweithio. Fel ydw i'n ddweud am ymddangos. Fergal Colman yn yw'r mewn ni, ac mae'r coleg Philoedd. Mae'n rhan o'r ffroedd symfyni 3. A'r gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'r gofymau digital o'r gofymau. Probably 50% more of our small digital strategic consulting company, really based in Melbourne, and we've also got offices in Mumbai. About ten of us. Probably about 50% of our businesses are dealing with local government clients. Over the last 30 years, Philip More�yb, but we've worked with probably 60 odd local governments around Australia. Rydyn ni'n gwybod bod wefnodd chyflogwch ar gyfer y ddod, yw'r ddweud o ddod yn ymddangos, mae'n ddiwyllteidol fel ymddangos i gyd yn yr ysgol. Felly, mae'n meddwl i'r drwp yn ffyddiol, a'n amgylchedd yn dweud o'r ddod. Yn ni'n gweithio ar gyfer gweithio ar fynd ymweld, ac yn ymddangos i'r ddod yn ymddangos i'r ddod yn ymddangos i'r ddod yn amddangos. By all means ask questions as we go. I'm very much on the non-technical side. So I've heard the term glue human used in a couple of earlier sessions. I am probably that glue human. I stopped things in the tracks in our company by saying we can do things. Technical guys have gone and do it. So, but seriously, I've probably sift very much on the people side of the business. Business background, business training, primarily, and digital business. So I've been involved in the web industry for 15 years, I guess, 20 years. So it comes from a data perspective. Quite different characters. I draw circles and you draw boxes. And that really encapsulates a lot of the tension that we think of going on in both companies. We actually think that at any point in time half the room is looking at the roof and the other half is listening to one of us. And when we swap speaking, they stop looking at the roof and swap over. We actually think that's that word. So, look, we've got a waffle, we've got plenty of slides. Too much information in there. We've jumped through what we think is not relevant to you guys. But we put more in so you can go back and read if you want it. Because it's also hard. We've got some people here who understand local government. They're wondering what to do. And we've got people who have never had exposure to local government wondering what is this thing. And we try to explain both sides of it. That's quite hard. You've got to go. Who is from local government? Great. I hope you disagree with what we're saying. We try to take it from what we think is a local government perspective. But let's crack on. Any questions? Happy to try and answer them as we go. We've got cell health here. It's a bit more technical than I. So I'll just defer to you. So I'll get any tricky, tricky questions. I was going to talk about the changing digital landscape and the pressure that we think is on local government. The underfunded expectations that are on local government are huge, we believe, for what a small-ish organisation, but pretty complex organisations. We'll talk about the new technical environments of the likes of APIs. Why we think Drupal is the solution of choice and how it fits. And then we'll talk a little bit about information management. So we believe the actual problem we're trying to solve for local government is the notion of a single customer view. I'm able to give it, I guess, a full experience to the customer when they log in. So they can log in on a website. They can go to the front counter. They can go to the swimming pool, the library, and they're all in one system at the moment. They're not. That's a really difficult problem to solve as the local government guy is smiling. And then we'll talk about people and change because as much about the technology, we have to change and shifting people. Our job is to get people to the top quadrant. I won't go into it in too much detail, but we've got a lot of people out there adopting web technologies without too much strategy in place. You've got others with great strategy who are slow to adopt the technology. We've shamelessly taken that from a CUP Gemini report. But we think it's good. Our aim is to get all our clients to the digital leader space. Whatever that means for their own particular industry. We think local government employees, like the rest of us, they're just seeing the internet and they're interacting with the internet and almost everything they do. You can go through all the stats there, but people are using social media. People are using the web. They're logging on to Amazon. It's telling them what they want to do. Then they go into their own offices. They're all from working. They don't have access to social media. They're working on all computers. They can't deliver the service that they want. Obviously, leading to huge new digital business models. Obviously, Amazon has been a classic one. Any of the ladies in the room will know shoes of prey. Totally new types of business models that are just disrupting every industry. National Australia Bank, 94% of transactions conducted online. Everyone takes that for granted, but that's happening in the space of 20 years. Why can't local government do the same? Why can't they rock up to the counter at local government? I'll just come back from India. Banking there is even a couple of steps ahead, so people can there with a Twitter account do transactions with their bank. This is remarkable times and changes that we're living through. It's the technology, but the real disruptive scenarios come out of people understanding how to use those technologies to develop new business models. Local government is facing, I guess, similar demand, and the community is just used to logging on and doing things seamlessly online in the private sector, and then they go to their local government website and they get no experience whatsoever, generally speaking, and there are some exceptions. I've listened to obviously the good CMS guys. The huge amount of things happening, I guess, overseas. Stony had been a classic example. We had the example of the White House and the UK. We're observing this in the local government space. Australian governments obviously starting to take heed, and we're starting to see it at a federal level. You've got your digital transformation office that was announced last month. We've obviously got the likes of my go for driving people online. Acquia we've heard from today. This has been talked about pretty strongly, I guess, in local government. They're aware of these things that are happening, and also at state level. The other thing that's happening is this underlying technical change. I'll let you talk to some of those. I'll go through this in detail a bit more later, but software is moving to APIs very strongly. Anyone who's next door in the previous speech to spotify all those sorts of things are just collections of bits of services that are put together, and then they're rebundled and put out of services again. The old SOA ESB, excuse me if you don't know what they mean, but the older web services technologies are coming of age, the internet of things, your fridge can now get hacked, basically. And large corporations are tackling this. They're moving to this environment quite quickly from my observations. And that's changing IT departments within organisations quite rapidly. In turn, that's going to affect local government or IT departments. And Drupal, if you're going to go into a local government with Drupal, it's got to live in this new world, basically. And it can, but how do you do that? How do you fit that into what a local government is? It is the challenge we're trying to deal with. I think the other thing, you know, local government is different. So I saw the GovCMS guys at the previous talk were talking about tier, I think they're patterned three of websites. To my mind, a lot of local governments will feel they're sitting that tier three. They're small organisations, but they're pretty complex. They deliver over 100 services, would that be right? What council are you with? Which council are you with? Okay, yeah. So, you know, if you were in the private sector, half of those would be divested. You just wouldn't do it. A ward avoid delivers, too. Most state government departments don't deliver more than one on two services. A local government is one of the most complex organisations that we've seen in our consulting careers. I can't make it, it makes one. This makes this problem really tricky to solve. They've got to solve it on less money, generally speaking. They don't have the IT budgets available to them, which obviously makes Drupal somewhat appealing. I think they've been really poorly serviced by the existing web industry. So some of the CMS providers, certainly in Victoria, are doing a disservice to this industry to a certain degree. So, you know, we go into communications departments and IT departments and they're really wary and really sceptical. It's just another CMS that we have to be really, really careful about that. The other thing we observe is local government, the digital initiatives at the moment tend to be run by the communications department. Not in every case, but in a large number of cases. They understand outbound communications and they're very often under huge pressure to deal with crises. They're always running to the mayor. They're not necessarily, they don't get the time to be that strategic about these communications. And I think that's a big consideration, certainly, for us. Conversely, we actually get the customer service people who don't believe the website's got anything to do with them. And we'll argue the point as well quite strongly in some local governments, which I think is quite interesting by itself. I mean, the whole concept, if it's inbound, well maybe it should be ours, never mind where it comes from. There's an argument, we have trouble winning at times. It's under the councillor factor. So not every decision is rational, I guess, in some cases. Doesn't look like a bankhouse. So we deal with some regional councils. This stuff's just totally far into the councillors. And then, of course, they're the same as everyone else. They're just too busy to make change. So this is the context in which we're all operating, I guess, to a certain degree. At the same time, I guess, when I started doing work in local government about probably six years ago now, I've done a lot of digital stuff in the private sector. I kind of fell into local government doing social media, Rolex, everything from setting up a simple web, Facebook pages and Twitter accounts. But that was really quite empowering for many people in local government when they got access to these tools, bringing their own device, and they were able to actually go out and solve problems with simple communication. Philip and I, probably, Philip coming from the data background was saying, well, that's all well and good, but this social media stuff is creating all this data. They already can't handle the data they've got in their systems. How are we going to get it into the corporate system? So we spent probably good six months trying to figure out how to get social media data into a CRM using tools like this. An example of using Ushahidi as a tool to filter data into the CRM. And then we realised that we'd only kind of dealt with two of the three areas. Well, the other interesting thing that happened there was, it was actually very powerful too, but the building didn't understand it. They sort of said, well, hang on, why would you want to catch social media? We're just going to force people through our app. They're going to use our app. Why would they use another app? Because they just didn't get that they couldn't actually just extend the corporate system with an app, and that's all the public's ever going to use. We struggle to make the paradigm shift. But also, in fact, some of the processes are just so antiquated. So if you think about the data we've got there and awareness, we use this all the time that are cancelled, that we work with. That's what the banking sector was like probably 20 years ago to a certain degree before it went to 94%. In some respects, most councils are still operating on this. So much manual input. It's such a pain in the ass for the citizen or the resident to deal with cancer. So we kind of had a bit of a think and we went back and we thought, websites, basic websites are wrong. There's not, and we kind of evolved this notion of digital platforms that we needed to start talking about digital platforms in opposed to websites. So what we think the community look at, you know, is these personas. Council tends to be property centric, not customer centric. Apartments are set up to deal with issues that just have properties going to the CRM. We spend a lot of time talking about personas, the development of personas. This is what council thinks, this is what the community wants to see. They think, well, I'm going to deal with council. I think it's actually happening. When you have a look under the covers, that's what's really happening. One day they ring up and they get put straight into a corporate system. The next day they go and log in on a website. The third day they go and communicate to social media. Completely parallel processes. People in local government can't tell that that same person has done those three actions. I would say in 95% of local governments to start. Which makes our little characters pretty angry. I might add, there's a really interesting social media chatter about people getting frustrated in this whole area. And we've had a tendency from council laws to the Smith's and the Crackers. What's actually happening is Mr Smith is in you reckon up to 25 different systems? I'll qualify that. Local government keeps naming the address about 25 times. Someone can get it down to 8 or 10 maybe, or less. Very rarely you can really get it down to 1. You can pay your rates, you can go to the library, you can go to the leisure centre. You can get meals on wheels. Keep going. And it gets down to the property centric. If you're a tenant, then it seems to need to keep you in the corporate systems in most cases. It might be in the library system, but no need to be in the rating system because you don't pay rates. So which one's the central register? And that goes back to, there's a culture I guess of servicing properties in traditional local government systems. And that goes right back to, if you have a look under the colours of all of the systems, the database schemas are actually wired backwards for a customer centric view. So it's a real challenge. And then people like me go in and give them social media. And they start using social media and a whole lot more data starts flowing around with us. But there's no way of tying it up there. There's no sales force where they can say this is the person's Twitter account. They've run up to complain. I can see they've also been on Twitter to complain about this. I can see that they're pretty loyal to the library. They're pretty loyal to the leisure centre. So we should really go ahead and solve this problem. Or this person's an absolute crackpot doesn't matter what we do, we're just going to keep complaining. You don't get that notion of a single customer view and you can't build a relationship and you can't deliver services. And the data, which is that great people want to deliver better customer service, they don't have a system in most cases. And to a certain degree, if you're just going to put the traditional group or in a local government, you're only complicating just adding another separate system. So we end up with three silos in council, I suppose. So one previous slide was mine with the little ladies and then the boxes are filled. So council systems that, while immature, have been around for a long time and they're stable and they certainly click revenue or stuff, they're relatively self-contained in a vendor. They manage properties, not residents. Very rarely do they not have duplicates in them in both names. A lot of councils don't actually have a clean list of addresses. Of course, a modern CRM just says that silly one person can't live in two houses and two families can't live in one house type of thing. So they just refuse to load them when you go to food. Or go to the data into a modern CRM. And someone rings up and says, well, I've just moved. The poor old council staff don't quite know where to start putting that information in. They think they're putting it in the right spot but when you check the data around the back end it's actually going only into one spot or in the wrong spot or not updating all of the registers. I think it is and all sorts of stuff going on. You then go and have a look at the websites. Duplicate functions in the websites that are the main systems all also have. Email management in the local government is a classic example of communication. They're all using something simple like Mailchiff. But every single apartment has their own Mailchiff. So I might be subscribed forward and I can't go to a single place and I'm not subscribed, but it's high quality. It's a very simple example. It's just no part of actually the customer and what the customer wants. And websites and intranets are duplicating functionality with their internal CRM with the GIS, the document management. We had a local government in Fyrgel that had a really good community consultation really pretty good maps red and green raindrops for who was for and against all the stuff. The GIS department didn't even know that that project existed and they couldn't participate in it because they had the wrong technology. Culturally just completely different planets in some respects. Social media is really BYO software yet we've got IT departments saying well we control software. We supply the software. The public are now expecting to use social media to communicate with the council. They expect responses back out through it. Council's actually got a lean obligation to store some of those communications under records acts. That's a challenge. And the very bottom dot point is one that we probably underplay in this presentation but local government is part of the whole of the government and is expected to live in the coordinated information world in the future. Live through APIs. Do you guys find the size of the council and the population the quality of the amount of problems that they're facing? The bigger they are, the less problems they have. It's the reverse. It's easier. I think it's easier to get a mid-sized small local government straightened out in this respect than a really new one. We've given too much away but we've been piloting I guess these thoughts with probably a dozen of our close government clients that we've chosen small ones. Ones that we can round up and we can get to the CEO and we can get everybody around the table. Is that because it's a small number of councils? It depends. Bless internal politics and look at every other organisation that's the same but local governments are different from a consulting perspective and that's fine. You just have to understand what many drive it is. So here's the I guess what we think the solution is. Fundamentally you've got to coordinate information. You've got to technically coordinate your environments. It's as simple as that. You don't go out and buy another box that solves it all. You quite simply can't because you don't have control over the whole environment. I suppose the point of this talk is the Drupal has to fit into that overall environment. It has to fit in with your social media. It has to fit in with your corporate systems and the information management is simple things like have you produced the same address in every system and it's really easy in a local government to find an example of what flats having three of twenty addresses different. Unit one, flat one, unit three that don't match up. Those people aren't matched up because they're treated as living in different houses so therefore they must have different names. So the end game is to actually have an overall framework so that people when they communicate with council no matter how they come in it's a coordinated environment for them. We think that that's a basic framework of what the public expect to do through a Drupal environment. And I won't go through them but the ones that don't happen very often at the moment are fill out a form and make a payment. And by that I don't mean use a number that the council's already given you. I mean go in and put my name in for the first time and register for wheels on wheels and pay for it and get an invoice without council having to pre-approved me. At the moment for a lot of the online payments in local governments you have to know if you're not a resident that's very difficult. We'll keep going there but the second thing and this is a Drupal or you want to talk to what this is about? My digital councils are this I guess is a test site, a beta site that we've built and we're going basis. What are the point? We actually use it to run workshops in a local government to challenge them about what a digital is because this is very much task driven. That's the core. On the task driven stuff I want to listen to the earlier talk the Jerry McGovern we follow that philosophy I guess to a certain degree. We think Drupal is a one preach to the converted we think Drupal is a great platform for it I'm not going to know you guys know Drupal better than me I'm still a relative newbie If we look at Tim O'Reilly's key aspects of a successful platform I think it takes most of the boxes as a community What we think from a local government point of view open source works, they're paying huge licensing fees for them a lot of councils they can eliminate that and they can spend it on decent consulting if they want or on whether they're getting an internal person in some cases it might be one full time person to clean data as we have in one council. The platform itself is probably cost positive for the local government and information management is where they're actually like overall it's still cost but it's going to cost anyway I think it's a reality of it but the whole open source open standards open data are coming at local government and the whole of government is being trained for example in the UK a lot of governments don't have pretenders if they use open source which means my understanding is that the business cases for open source are putting enormous pressure coming right down to local state it's not openly there the pressure is not openly there to move to open source platforms in this area Certainly not in Victoria Re-usable modules is a module for that was used in one of the earlier one of the earlier talks and certainly within our business we say we don't want to go out coding there is a module for that we need to choose the right ones obviously but our job is actually to apply the technology to the business that's more important I think that's where we can add more value to a certain degree If there isn't a module our approach would be to actually look for the closest one and pay someone to actually make it more suitable rather than being at the wheel I apologise for too much information You're giddy yet Drupal as a CMS we've talked about versus a digital platform is it just some thoughts we jotted down I think there is a danger that a lot of people will just go and put Drupal and some councils already are running Drupal they just put it in it's a new CMS you can save your license and fees and we'll put a new CMS in there That in itself is not necessarily banned but it doesn't actually solve the underlying problem and parts of the way you structure things If you then want to go and manage information and manage what's going on there's things like logins you want to manage that against other logins you've got a number of systems you might have to then go and have a re-think about how you built the platform and that sort of stuff Sometimes improved content sometimes not improved content certainly sometimes the same processes we've been looking at a couple of really good looking new council sites none of the forums are web-form so PDFs once you get under the bonnet it doesn't really help anyone in the long run it's not solving the problem for the customer Again driven through the communications department so they don't think of the customer service implications or they just don't have time They think Drupal and the Drupal data schema so we have plenty of arguments in here because Philips said that an information wonk that we get our data wrong and the data that we create for events or what events probably won bookings et cetera on a Drupal platform won't feed into an internal system Well we had the conversation this week where we built four facilities for events and I wanted to know how we're going to get the next 300 in here more or less You have to be able to do that sort of stuff in the local government because they have three or four hundred facilities that doesn't mean goodness So you have to be able to build Drupal pages you've got to be able to do that sort of stuff straight up and that's just a classic integration and that source data in the rest of the management system so if they change the capacity in the room that should go through the system that's a sort of level of information management you've got to get to These tend to be shorter projects and we think they're quite risky I guess for a Drupal success in the industry Word spreads really fast in local government If you're doing a good job spreads, if you're doing a bad job it probably spreads even quicker So I think as a community if we're going to put Drupal into these environments we need to be really mindful of it and mindful of the reputation of the industry Drupal has a platform so we've talked about data pilots and prototyping so we encourage plenty of that and we'll show you the framework we use in a file in terms of our prototyping framework but as I said it hasn't been a huge amount every other industry seems to do it to death it doesn't happen as much in the local government sector and we certainly spend a hell of a lot of time on personas and customer needs just constantly getting back to that it needs to task driven websites data driven websites new processes and driving culture change so that is a huge one and again we'll talk about the method we use to do that I think the fact is is that Drupal is only going to be one tool for building this new digital enterprise it's not going to be the fix all in our mind and most you're going to have totally different configurations in pretty much every local government We've thought long and hard about can you deal with that distribution to Drupal we think it's pretty tough because if you look at the current systems they've got and there's probably about 25 combinations of various other things they can have in the building that it's almost impossible to find two local governments who have got exactly the same configuration they're not the same and when you're talking information management the question is how far into the Drupal configuration those changes go they certainly go into the Drupal configuration I can understand the complications there but wouldn't there be common complicated problems among different local governments and therefore if they're the common complicated problems that happens can you create a common distribution that we thought We have this argument all the time as well I wrote a thesis on implementing technology in my local government some years ago it must have been a complete status problem and in theory local governments all do exactly the same functions so in theory this all works perfectly but if you line up five local governments and say you're all going to use that someone will say no I'm not going to use it purely because he does and that's just human nature and I get a nod from the local government guys here that is human nature so you have to cater for that so what we can do is pick the commonality that's efficient and then do the twisting or the branding and it is actually twisting and branding for each local government so there's that aspect to it but then there's the actual how does their rating system for example store addresses now if you've got address search and running live on a fine nearest function or how does it do as store maps if you've got all that stuff running live in Drupal that will be different configuration depending on the source system or document management or the Drupal configuration files so you might have a combination of modules but the configuration files it would be a game call to say that you could actually download Drupal with the modules and how they're wired together I don't think you can do that we're thinking long and hard about that one and that's the thing I suppose we've got an obligation to make sure there's a long term path there and you don't do some short more about integration and how the wheels fall off that because you've got to make sure you've got an environment that's durable over the next 10 to 20 years and that sounds a long time and in fact that's how long these things are going to be around for in various forms Driven by the general manager and the CEO really important any time we have the senior managers on board we generally have a lot more success in fact talking about what we commonly see communications manager and IT manager looking at each other saying this isn't working and it must be your fault but we don't actually know what to do about it and it's fair enough from where they come from some IT managers see a website as none of their business in fact organisations and that's not just local government but if there is a path forward they're just not quite sure whose steps we're next they don't have a roadmap basically and it's a two to five year project and it's a long term thing I would say we're prototyping so some of our clients we are we're building I guess these services are these tasks Just on the GIS side the average local government the test of a mapping or find nearest function for a local government is can your mother use it and I'd say 95% of the current local government GIS application to your mother couldn't use but that's the typical person who's actually got to find the newest welfare centre is a lot of stuff on the website is actually not usable and so I'm looking at who's drilled our other guys have absolutely drilled me on this one What we're flicking through there are actually triple stuff that's out live Yes it is the modules that I go out and wreck the guys heads with we go and build them in all seriousness that's all well and good but you're not going to get unless you've got your information management right into I'm going to go back and show that so that's community consultation sub site currently under construction venues, booking system a microsite bookings facility which is something that most councils will want events and a fine nearest so again been able to go in and put their address in and it will throw back local for the latest facility nearest facilities should I say I think we've got childcare centres and libraries and parks in that particular example just mindful about ten minutes I think five minutes Something that we've already talked about but the digital platform these days customers expect to talk to you through it expect you to listen and respond back through it that's I'll do those sorts of things and the comment come back information management I we think is the key to this as much as approval sits on that environment part of my background is the corporate sector and Toyota to name one environment 14 databases couple of million records each 200 downloads three systems and the problem I just had that was quite solvable in Toyota it's actually the same as the local government issue we've just described but it's a lot harder to solve in local government and not necessarily because of the technology the technology cost yes because historically and what it looks the same you've historically tended to use the Oracle stack for that sort of stuff because it has all the bit you need quite neatly solved it but local governments are genuinely too small to afford the Oracle sweep that's now changing and changing rapidly most local governments don't actually run effective data warehouses for example where there's most big corporates with them you're sounding like Ferbill I'm just curious it is but then why didn't Russia build the best cars ever because that was their approach actually I went through this with GIS and mapping some music and I really tried to find a good example of that worldwide because I understand the same issue I really did not that lasts not that I can find I haven't looked lately and I've looked and looked and looked and I think the Sydney guys would know that through in Sydney where there was about eight local governments tried besides for that spent an absolute fortune and then it's now okay let me give you a good example I've been trying to have this argument with them to lose every time we're not going to get there in this presentation the New Zealand government gave the local every local government used to take free GIS software worth about 250,000 free within about five years half of them had thrown that out and paid money for a different one that's an example you can pull it off well and good I'm not going to try and paper it out of my back pocket yeah let's go through this and then you can argue let's talk about the integration because the reaction to local governments typically is to actually go system to system with APIs and blue ones are roughly the internal systems, the brown ones are roughly the social media digital platform type communities that's not quite yet well all the rest of them are actually custom-placed systems as well family day care library you can't do point-to-point integration in local governments there are too many combinations and if you pull a system out there are too many others that fall over that's only a few of the integrations you need in local governments but that's what I see local governments start to do they've got the vendors who sell the blue stuff saying that if you run with us and I know I'm getting a chuckle out of this one when we solve this problem I don't think that you do solve that problem for multiple reasons and one of them is the way they manage and what they define as a single customer view and that goes I can say I think all of the major local governments that I see you have to go through an integration platform as far as I can see which is the way you solve something like Toyota or a big water board you have to go through an integration platform and Drupal has to sit on an integration that then switches into the other systems and the Drupal functions have to go in and out and I've just been to talk about the web services version 8 that and a couple other things in Drupal just an integral part of solving this problem for local governments and that in turn goes up to how you build your web pages forms all that sort of stuff as well I just want to talk quickly about what I see is the new API world and to a certain degree of teaching that's converted here but software the reason I say this is the local government then have not yet moved they're starting to move but they've not yet moved the way I see the rest of the software industry starting to emerge and I've just come out of the API days conference in Sydney that was pretty interesting in terms of IT guys from Toyota and Newscorp and those sorts of guys saying here's how we're now currently here's how we're going to run our world in the future very much APIs and just pulling functionality from where you can find it is becoming the norm as in Google Maps or PayPal that then means your information environment as a whole has got many different suppliers you're not going to a single supplier and saying I'm going to buy my IT system of you the world is very clearly moving away from that those APIs implement it properly are very clearly matched to services and outcomes with your customer they do the direct mapping through the Newscorp CIO have had a really interesting talk at that previous conference on how the methodology they're applying for that and the whole concept of headless Drupal and API's being stacked so all of a sudden Drupal's which come up in the previous session Drupal's now an engine not a content management system it's an API engine you link that together with another one to get an outcome and I suspect local governments actually end up with both the headless Drupal at the back end and Drupal's content management system at the front end in the long term might be an interesting concept for you to think about but I suspect that's where they end up in this because it's really about functions and APIs and how you put them all together services oriented architecture and service buses have actually matured rapidly in the last few years to the extent where the multinationals are now starting to implement particularly the premium if not the open source service buses middleware solutions they've actually got user interfaces you don't have to be a program to build a web service anymore in these products which I think is good because even I can almost knock one together and Mercedes and BM the new cars are actually going to have a service bus in them so I hear people say no that's too complex for us to run but they're actually becoming mainstream because the new cars are being built for continual internet connectivity the manufacturers recognize something wrong with your motor before you do when you're driving down the road and I forget the figure but I think a Toyota is actually in the future will put out about 5 gig an hour of data I haven't figured out how to catch it yet so this sort of technology is just web services is just becoming everywhere and to a certain degree this is going to come to the rescue of local government because they can take advantage of all this all of a sudden and modern IT departments are actually moving the news corp guy was actually interesting he said we will move to providing the glue to hang it all together which is the integration environment that will be our core role if there's a function we need we should be able to find an API for it we don't think we have to get it built certainly and we're not sure that we'll even pay for a lot of them and if you do it's pay per click pay per use and the local government IT department I think it's got to provide a digital platform for the organisation for years I think that is their role it's not customer service it's not communications so Drupal will actually live in this new world Drupal will probably live in this new world way better than almost any other content management system is out there I think it's important to look at the background what that means and what you've got to do it might give it some way to live but as a Drupal community it's about not just putting a CMS in and ignoring the rest of the issues yeah well just on time so we might just rush through these pretty quickly but obviously the people and culture thing is important not going to have time to get into it some of the McKinsey reports out of our clients is we run we run eight week working cycles where we prototype and we do that with digital everything from websites through to Facebook groups and it's all like getting hands on and building prototypes and letting people make mistakes in a reasonably safe environment the other thing it does is it brings people together from across the organisation and at the end of that week is what they've created so the adoptive opponent will be toy out and describe the same process a few weeks ago and it drives change and it changes behaviour and we find in government this can really energise an organisation as much as anything else they're not exposed to working groups like this where they're seeing what other parts of the organisation is doing and they're actually been told to go out and try and solve problems with new technologies so eight week cycles it's not our methodology I guess it's pretty common but we find it works pretty effectively if you get it running right we'll put a proviso on that you've got to have the senior management at the top you can get your CEO to have a vision and that just makes all the difference in the world as they can drive it forward I might just leave it on that I know we're over time but happy to take any questions for a couple of minutes or we'll see people over a coffee I guess