 Thank you so much for the introduction Vellum. So yeah we're both really thrilled to be with you today and we're going to have a conversation on connecting the opens and so when we were thinking about the session I thought well maybe we could just start off by saying what open means to us or what is open and then just show you an image that perhaps says a little bit more about what we feel about open. So I'm going to invite Catherine to show her image first. I haven't seen it yet so this is kind of a conversation starter for us. Can you show your screen? Yeah I'm trying let's see if it can go and share now let's see can you see my screen? Yes and this is a picture I took about maybe four or five weeks ago on the top of a mountain in the Highlands of Scotland and to me open is both clearly a virtual thing but also clearly a physical thing and so to me it's mountains it's space it's freedom and this is also a national park part of this so it's also about public interest public spaces so that's what I wanted to share. Okay thanks very much so can I share my stop shooting though so yeah so for me actually let me tell you about a dream that I had a few years ago I had an amazing dream where I was at the top of a skyscraper the 123rd floor if that even exists I don't think it does but I was at the very top of a really high skyscraper and I could see over the whole world so I could see the Saharan desert I could see Sydney I could see the Amazon it was just amazing and all of the colors and for me if I look at open and what I want open to be it's looking at this a really diverse landscape a thriving landscape so here this is the best I could do because obviously that dream you can't capture it in a photograph but here you see water you see woods you've got town in the background you've got farming going on so there's a real ecosystem here of open so that means open access to publications to research data to fair data but it's also open education those worlds coming together it's we're all part of one world but there are different pockets of that and it's we all need oxygen we all need water how do we care for open and how do we also collaborate more effectively to resolve some of the common issues that we all have yeah because we know that if we don't also look after the planet and look after open you know all the work that we've been doing for that might be co-opted by the large commercial companies so so for me this is kind of the vision where things are really working well and and you have a world that's really thriving I don't think we're there yet and also I think interoperability is also really important between the opens so technical interoperability so that everything really does work well together yeah so I think that's why I that's why I really like this image what I also really love about open is that it's a real enabler yeah for so many so Catherine you were talking about freedom so for me it's also really about empowering others and to enable progress and growth and innovation that's so key and it also enables society to get engaged with what we're doing be it research research on COVID for example right now or or in education when you're stuck at home and that you can learn and grow and engage with others online so I'm really hoping that open will really be the norm and there are some really strong signs in Europe that open at least open research so access to research publications that's publicly funded and fair data that that's increasingly becoming the norm the modus operandi for learning and research that's what we're looking towards really so yeah that's why I I really love my job because it's all about open and making progress with that so I think it would be quite nice to know in the audience what others what what does open mean to you in the chat that's you can tell us I'm just let me just share my screen so what does open mean to you Willem and Igor can also join in or are you just like waking up and having a coffee and just a word will do no yes right the opposite of open is broken well you know open is is there to it's been introduced because of a broken publishing system we've had and also to limited access to education yeah so we're actually trying to mend the broken with open aren't we access to resources yes hard to wake up indeed oh that's nice could you like the pictures invitation to explore in the open yes inclusivity indeed enabled permission affordable access nice yeah opens a way to have a better society indeed oh morning Santiago yes accelerates innovation indeed yes great we've got some lovely thoughts there don't want to force you at waking up so what we're also going to do to get to get us started is also to share coincidentally we're both working on our new strategies yeah so you're going to have a bit of a sneak peek on what spark Europe is planning on doing in the next four years and also what creative commons is planning on doing I'm really super interested to hear from Catherine because we haven't actually shared all of this in advance so I'm going to pass Catherine are you okay with talking about your strategy first yeah sure so I know Vanessa but some slides I'm just going to talk and so I come in on the 17th of August and it's really marking as I say almost a hundred days or if a hundred days today and what we've been doing is a very in depth consultation process listening process with both our stakeholders our community our funders our board or you know it just a plethora of of individuals organizations to really try and think about us in terms of the next five years for many of you you'll know that creative commons is an international not for profit helping to build a sense of staying a thriving commons of shared knowledge and culture and when we've been looking at those photographs of the open spaces and of the physical commons that is is for us all it's just really interesting that we are about a thriving commons so together you know we have an extensive network and multiple partners and we build capacity to develop solutions and advocate for open sharing of knowledge and culture that serves the public interest and this is something I think is very important when we've been thinking and reflecting about the past the present and the future so you know we're about to celebrate our 20th anniversary of Creative Commons and again while we're doing the strategic process we've been doing a lot of reflection so when we think about the past 20 years we set out to build a commons of open creative content free of most copyright restrictions and with the licenses and tools we created a simple way for creators to stop into a more permissive model of sharing so over the past two decades and it's remarkable that we're celebrating two decades of our existence these legal tools have been applied to we think two billion works so close to two billion works have our licenses and that's now become a global standard and Vanessa you know this in terms of research look what Creative Commons has done in 20 years in terms of being a global standard for sharing particularly in the education and research space so what we're going to do next and that is the thing about we've had this great success great achievement but we know the world is so different from what it was 20 years ago to where we are today and we have to acknowledge there are new challenges to sharing that we've got to address and new ways of sharing that we've also got to enable and so I think that while we are thinking and reflecting on this some of the the things we are thinking about are our strengths clearly our strengths are within our achievements with our licenses and what we've done to enable sharing and that is something we want to build on and reflect upon but also improve upon but also we have to think about what other things can we do what is ours to do in the world of today and so I think some of that will be creating new things that we haven't even thought about yet but enabling us to do that in the next five years it will be building capacity with institutions and individuals to be able to share and create that a space to share knowledge and culture globally because we are a global organization with a global network and community it will be about our advocacy work as well in terms of the policy space too and it will be more generally how do we not just with our advocates and people that know about us how are we going out to the world in the next five years to to build on our achievements and allow more people to have access to knowledge and culture because we believe knowledge belongs to everyone and if we are successful we will achieve that in the next 20 years to come so that gives you a small capture of where we are Vanessa and I've still got to get our final strategy through our board meeting on the 6th of December so just giving you a little flavor of where we have got to in that whole reflection process that we've had the listening process we've had and the ability to really think about the past 20 years the present and the future so I was curious about something so the the the priority of the public interest can you can you say a bit more about that and how important that is and how you what what uh what do you want to strive towards there um in meeting public interest specified that perhaps enough and I think in the past 20 years we have been serving the public interest but we just haven't spelled that out and I think when we are about in the name creative commons about the commons that is the public interest and more and more of what we are seeing is the wall gardens the not so sharing of culture and knowledge and we have a different model of sharing which is in the public interest which does protect the commons and which also allows us to improve both in society and also it's an equality aspect to this as well an equity aspect which I think is really important to and we've never really specified that out in the way maybe we want to articulate it for the future so I'm hugely excited about the way that we're thinking about the interest the public interest that we're serving and the social good that we are advocating for great question uh from Yoast what do you see as as the biggest risks so I think some of the the aspects that we're coming to in terms of the 20 years that we've experienced which are very um when we were first when we first started I don't think any of us saw um the harm that we would see in terms of aspects around the artificial intelligence or the aspects that we see in terms of the misinformation disinformation that we see too and I think that we have to if we're going to be looking at how we share and thinking about that ethical sharing as well that if we do not talk a little bit about some of the we talk clearly about the benefits and that's for sure but we also are in a space now after 20 years of existing we have to also look at how we can also be a solution to some of the harms and that's maturity as well in terms of the past 20 years to where we are at the moment to be able to think a little bit about that too um and I think that's um you know we want to see this and Vanessa you talked about this system the ecosystem I mean the open ecosystem that we want to see you know does promote ethical is ethical is inclusive is sustainable and is it's really advocating for a pro-social sharing of knowledge and culture and you know in our strategy we want to pave the pathway how we see that happening when that's in terms of our advocacy in terms of our innovation in terms of our capacity building with both individuals and institutions. Hope that answers your question. So shall I share our strategy? I'd love to see your strategy Vanessa. Hang on it's sharing screen time again. You've been very good Vanessa in terms of asking people for information and discussion and so I thank you for that because I did answer your questions when you approached them. So okay so Spark Europe has been around for 15 years and the pillars that so we work on open access open science which includes of course open access but open science meaning open access to publications but also to research data and mainly fair data so findable accessible interoperable and reusable research data and we're also working on open education much more recently than our colleagues in the United States. So and the real key goal is to make open the default. So you can see my screen right? Yes. So our board together with me we've developed our key goals and this is still under consultation with our members. They still have another week to go to feedback on that. So actually echoing some of what Catherine was talking about but let me first start with what's really key for us is to support policy making in Europe. So it's to share knowledge to track progress on policy so what I'm talking about is on an international level so it be it UNESCO recommendations or the European Commission as a key funder and their policy or other directives on the European Union level but also in particular national policy levels so national governments with their open science policies there are many who still don't have an open science policy in place and those who do can also strengthen them to become more fair and of course open education policy is often part of a larger overarching education policy but there can be a lot more work to be done. I'm also looking forward with my new community manager for open education who we've just been interviewing for this week is also to explore with the Commission how one can up the policy on open education at the European Commission level and to also bring some funding much larger funding mechanism with that to enable more innovation in Europe on open education. So that's really important for us to grow policy to monitor it and also to really share good practices in that. Institutional policy making is also important so amongst our members we have an open education network of librarians because which I haven't perhaps mentioned we're particularly focused on supporting the academic library community that has really been so influential in open so that's a real priority policy making for us but the second and third goal really speaks to what Catherine was also talking about so equity in the open I think equity was started really sorry openness was really to create a more level playing field to provide access to stimulate access to knowledge for all but actually if you look in practice at open research we're still behind payables we still don't have access to the material that's being created by the public purse we're locked behind copyright transfer agreements where we can't reuse our material where we can't deposit it freely and immediately as yet so it's not really all in our hands and there isn't and although there are some models in place to unlock open through some open access business models called article processing charges for example this this does not enable all those who wish to publish open to be able to publish open so there is an inequity even through open that's been created which was of course not the original idea so for us it's really important that we don't just look at the article processing charge business model that we really enable everyone to be able to publish open particularly by focusing on licensing so Catherine we're really going to be having lots of conversations about creative commons and how important licensing research material be it publications all sorts of different outputs so that it can be reused and repurposed so the reuse of research is really important for for us and that we have the control and that we don't transfer all of those rights to the publishers which is often the case so and and fair so if if we as authors also retain those rights and then distribute them and share them and the others can then reuse our material there's more equity in the system and we also hope to enable a range of different models of open education of open access to publications so that everyone can publish as I say openly regardless of their economic situation so with research data though research data we're also going to be promoting fair research data so that it's findable it's accessible interoperable and reusable I think many of these words and I shall I shall show you some examples of how close actually all these opens are I mean you know the the interoperability is important that things are findable in open education as in research data so we want to do more that systems and that data is really easily accessible and reusable by others so that's something we're going to be focusing on very much as well and diversity in the publishing landscape for research and education we know that there are some large commercial entities co-opting open so making money with open but we also want very much that our community that is creating open engine that we try to ensure that a lot of that stays in the open space and how can we sustain that that goes to my fifth point really so how can we really sustain all of our efforts the content the infrastructure above all that really that we need to either store to discover create and enable more openness so how do we make sure that that is funded and sustained so that we have a really working ecosystem and I think we we really haven't been thinking enough about this and we really need we we have been working at Spark Europe for several years now looking at how we can sustain open science infrastructure and I'll tell you maybe a little bit more about that later but it's really important that we look after that infrastructure as a community that it stays in the community's hand so how can we fund that as as a community together with governments and other benefactors funders stakeholders yeah fairly so that we're not behind another paywall to get access to our open content right and then the fourth point which is more focused on open research rather than open education a real sticking point for openness with open research is the reward system and I know actually rewarding open education is also a sticking point I think for that sector as well so we're going to look into both of those but in particular open research so open research is very much or has been it is moving now very much focused on the journal article and the prominence in certain venues publications using the impact factor but we know that there is such a wide range of richness of research output that is actually important when recognizing the efforts of research so that needs to be recognized and there are funders there are institutions there are governments now recognizing other types of research and we're looking at new indicators and what we will be looking at in the next years is to share good practices on new ways of evaluating research looking at it much more broadly and including openness in that right so it would be lovely to hear if there are any questions on our strategy for the next four years open education is really part of that we're going to step up our game there I think I said we're hiring an open education community manager who's going to be really working to share knowledge in Europe in particular amongst libraries but also bringing the knowledge from outside of libraries into libraries to see how libraries can support open education in Europe so are there any questions on the strategy there's a concern that the data will be monopolized by big tech companies yes because you reflect on that true I was I think it was two or three years ago I was on a panel for UNESCO talking about openness and research data and there was somebody from Microsoft there as well but actually Microsoft has a program to really open up a lot of their data so there are and I think Catherine with your open what was it called what's it called the open COVID branch so there there are some companies who really are opening up some of their patents and their data openly so there are some signs that there are some large companies doing good there is of course I think it's what's really essential is that we really provide access to the publicly funded research as much as possible of course within the limits of privacy and national security and competition etc that others may exploit that that is always a risk yes but at the moment there is there is so much so much data on USB sticks on desktops within very small research communities this really needs to be shared for reproducibility for research integrity because it's publicly funded for innovation for other research collaborations yes so that really shouldn't stop so the the idea is oh well if others are going to make money with my data I shouldn't be sharing the data no I really think it's a responsibility also for your community and your research to share it not just amongst your own colleagues but much more broadly because we have seen that it's really generated a lot more collaboration and research across borders when sharing that research data yeah sorry sometimes I'm a little bit long in my answers no great answer and another question is from Igor to hear more about how we can strengthen the connection and the collaboration between all those different openness oh yes okay I'd love to talk about that thank you Igor for that question um but maybe Catherine do you want to like go because I've just had I've just given everybody any info do you want to go into what Igor's mentioned or shall shall I think about how we work together I mean this is a great example but you know Vanessa and I before this presentation you know had numerous calls and was talking and that collaboration is really important not just through having a keynote address it's something but also the fact that we do have to think more strategically of all of those who are passionate about whether it's open education open research open science whatever the open is we do have to work more closely and collaboratively because the the challenges and the other side of these these debates are very well organized and certainly my personal journey into becoming interested in the open movement open space was through my personal experiences of working in copyright reform as a European parliamentarian for five years and watching the organization the the power of that organizational lobby of interests that are about private profit and not about the public interest was quite well it's why I'm here now and with you today because there is something about the moment that we're in and Vanessa you touched upon that about how we're about inclusivity and really promoting diversity and thinking about the public good and I think Michelle you put up about thinking about the goose in the comments absolutely you know how we together can work more collaboratively but also more collaboratively creatively but also more structurally in some ways as an open movement and connecting the different interests will be important for the next 20 years for our success you know that image of the goose in the commons and the famous Jamie Boyle article where he talks about the the talks about the the poem where the goose is mentioned and how it was and it's about the enclosure you know movement from in talking about the second you know so there's so much that we need to consider reflect upon but also work clearly together on and be much more intentional about how we work together to make sure that the the open ecosystem is not just something we talk about it's something that exists thrives and and is built upon for all public goods about creation of knowledge and culture so there's something so strong here and we need to work together on it sorry i've talked too much no no no i mean i completely agree with you and i think i think we need to work on a policy level more together but also even on operational challenges that we have um so something i didn't show with my with my beautiful picture here so the one thing that's missing in this picture are all of the silos so there are so many silos if you think about you know uh with farming and i have to say that i really think that even in the open movement we are silos we are not collaborating as much as we really should be you've got the open access movement you've got the fair data movement you have the and let let me show you um this slide um so um Sheila Corral and Steven Pinfield they did a really good overview of um a typology of open and here you can see the different types of open there are and the different silos right so they kind of categorize it by open content and open process and open infrastructure so for me the bigger silos are open culture open software open access to publications then you've got fair data and then you've got open education why are we not talking more together like Catherine and I today yes and why are we not working more strategically some of us are more advanced in certain areas uh how can we try to prevent some of the the problems that maybe open access is seen um you know ahead of time with open educational vice versa yeah that's what we really need to do um so here are some examples of openness um uh and they're really interlinked how they're interlinked uh yeah so John Willinsky I don't know whether you know him but he's also a fantastic uh uh thought leader on openness so he wrote um I think it was back in 2014 or even earlier um on open access open science and open software so they all share a commitment to the unrestricted exchange of information and ideas so an obvious reason why we need to work more together where open is a public good there's a need for more transparency public accountability so there are reasons there are you know the the the vision we have a common vision so it's you know it's a no-brainer to work more together and then also for here if you think of an institution like a university you actually had back in 2008 uh it was somebody called Wheeler the Wheeler declaration was really talking about uh an institution um a more open university and opening up most of their assets and I think this is really uh key for us to think about you know we're publicly funded we need to really provide access to that material and it generates more innovation more excellence more quality by doing that and he talks about its includes research publications research data educational resources open standards open software so we as institutions need to also have a joined up approach to open um and I know that it makes sense for open education perhaps to be led by other departments but do you come together with those who are leading on open access or those who are doing work with open software I think we could do a lot more there um and here we we are all all members uh uh UN member states have signed up to their uh sustainable development goals right so how easy is it for all of our open initiatives to feed into helping our governments demonstrate how we're feeding in how we are delivering on the the stgs right so we need to join up also to be able to share that with our governments more easily that they can then easily report on how they are also meaningfully delivering uh and then I sorry ego I know this is a long wait to the answer to your question but I really think it's important to also show the context and how why it's so important that we really need to talk more right and do more um so we all know about the five hours of open with open education but you know what's really interesting is if you look at uh the Berlin Declaration which was established in 2003 for open access there they're also and that's for publications users to grant all users a free irrevocable worldwide rights of access to and a license to copy use distribute transmit and display the work publicly and to make and distribute derivative works sound familiar and then if you look at the fair principles for research data which I've already talked about um particularly for digital assets and machine machine actionability is you know uh priority here for these principles but it's also about making data findable accessible interoperable and reusable so all of those they have been independently uh developed these these guidelines or principles these you know that we follow in our different sectors but they are all so interconnected and we want very similar things so all the more why we need to uh uh collaborate we've also had the UNESCO recommendation on OER in 2019 uh and we have now a draft recommendation from UNESCO one open science so the five areas of action for OER is build capacity uh develop policy encourage equitable quality OER nurture the creation of sustainability models and facilitate international cooperation now if you look at the UNESCO recommendation on open science indeed it's from the same organization so you you you know hope that they have and they have of course looked at the OER recommendation and that's influenced them but there it's also uh develop policy invest in uh open science infrastructures build capacity um uh there we've got again aligning incentives for uh research promote promote innovative approaches at different stages of the scientific process and international cooperation again so again you know there's a lot of alignment here which I think is really exciting um so so ego about your question what can we really be doing yeah so I think Catherine was saying so I met Catherine when she was at the uh uh she was at uh her um at the European Parliament um really fighting the library's case for um in the in the copyright reform uh and it was you know it was a tough one and we we we worked with her and many others on that the fact of the matter is that with open access a huge amount of publishers do not allow the reuse of the publication um of publications um they may allow deposit in repositories but there are embargoes uh there are version problems um so we really want to promote creative commons licenses so how can we uh work with creative commons also um open education has the similar challenges of needing um good legal knowledge and advice on to enable all those who create open educational resources but also to enable those who want to publish away they need the same kind of advice and we promote creative commons licenses for that that's why creative commons is so essential for us and also creative commons is being used in the research data space yeah so so that's really something that we can we can work on together I think yeah yeah and as I've seen before Vanessa you know clearly um our licensing our licenses and how um they have been applied and used in two billion almost two billion works use cc licenses is is a great achievement and we need to build on that advocate for that clearly but and tell the story about the impact that this has for so many individuals institutions and for us as a society as a whole the fact that shared knowledge and culture can can improve our well-being and that links to something she said about sustainable development goals as well how that interlinks in it but often the work that we do you know I think a great challenge in coming into creative commons is making you know the invisible visible because often our licenses for creative commons are are are used maybe sometimes taken for granted and and are not maybe as obvious um but yeah it's the infrastructure as I'm called the plumbing that allows things to happen and if it wasn't there um our world would be poorer for it um so there's you know something that's come up in the chat Vanessa that maybe you haven't a theme maybe is that when we're thinking about open and it's broadest sense for the past 20 years and really it has been in the past 20 years we've seen our debates about open being partly because of technology partly because of of where we want to see that that that ability to share knowledge but what's the next 20 years going to be like and how are we going to to to to work together to see the world we want to see in the next with all the challenges that we have and I think some of the things that you've um you've highlighted in in your presentation um are are well said and and well put um but how do we how are we going to some people saying get out these silos and work together I think that's something that we're that we'll certainly be talking more about yes I mean really and so what's really key for me is also to really collaborate more with organizations like ourselves and you know there are several ways how we can work more together who we just don't have the time do we really uh let me just jump to some things um there's a question um about open is not cheap so could you reflect on the funding part so some of that I mean you know I think that that's that's in terms of some aspects in other aspects you could say that that open during the covid crisis when we've been delivering education online developing you know all of this that it's absolutely essential um something that was you know related to me about just sometimes the practicalities when we're doing webinars and doing events and summits is for you know when we're thinking about diversity inclusion how we must make sure that you know basic internet access for many people who want to maybe access some of the events that we do is not cheap and not accessible and um and particularly if we want to engage globally we need to think about sometimes just small things make a difference and we can um do that together but yes you're right that um there's a leadership mindset investment but it's the right thing to do for the public interest you know you could say the same arguments that you know good public health services are not cheap but they're essential for our public good and public health and the common interest so um I think that as we move to the next 20 years of open I think some of the issues around um leadership culture um aspects around what that means for the common good and the public interests are going to be key questions and and uh keep pieces of the of those that advocate for open that have to be said heard and uh and put across well yes well just coming back to that question on the open isn't cheap yeah so if you think about COVID the situation that we're in with COVID oh that's just jumped on me um so if if our material would have been open from the from the first off our essential publications and that there was a a system in place where researchers were immediately sharing their research of course it has to be peer reviewed where the research data is also has a plate that um systematically research data is being shared publications are shared that we have an open education system where open educational resources are you know very widespread would we really be in the situation that we have been in over the last month scrambling dependent on the generosity of some publishers to open up their material temporarily yes certain material no I really think it's important that we have to invest in this now because it's going to be much more cost effective in the future so for other crises that we have to face we need to have a strong base of knowledge and information that we can depend upon and not that we depend on um things that are behind paywalls and that we our knowledge is our knowledge and that if we need access to it that we have immediate access how urgent it was to have access to uh the the COVID material and there has there are some great archives that were already developed by the open access community which the COVID community has been using but there could be a lot more and I think with open education resources yeah because it's still moving you know uh we were so focused on providing access to the facilities rather than the content because the content isn't yet there and you know what a pity but we need to think about how can we up our game there yeah um so I think that's really true Vanessa I think that's a really um and open education has been so important in at this moment you know if there's ever a time to advocate for open education resources and open access the irony has been that COVID has actually allowed us to have more conversations about this than was previously because we need to enable and that you know one of the things we haven't touched upon at all is how how we inspire new generations well you know um I think at the moment that you know young people are passionate about social justice and passionate about climate and have been caught up often at this moment in education by having to have online learning as the only option particularly in the US where you know um just one of my one of my colleagues at Creative Commons saying you know they've been told I think in California that they will know they'll still be online learning and that's huge challenges to be able to have good materials an up-to-date education offer that that is uh is meeting the needs of both the curriculum but also of the of the children that are having to go through this experience of not being with their peers and and that's hugely challenging for both teachers and educators and and for educated for peoples too as the daughter of two teachers I'm passionate about open education and about and about um and what that looks like and and I think it just is so important and that's why the conference that we're speaking at just now and the summit that we're doing yes so important well it is you know and these these conferences and these networks so how can we work more together and bring them together it's really firstly we need to have our communities of practice where we share uh and also places where we share material this is a really lovely example foster open science where there's a mass of fantastic resources on open science so don't reinvent the wheel we we need to be doing this for more for open education but that's a lovely example but you know these networks for research data there's the RDA network they have 36 working groups 66 interest groups worldwide talking about building bridges to research data so we've got our network for open education librarians we've got the open air nodes which is focused on open access and open science in different countries they're organized uh there's an open access books network so and how can we bring those networks together and uh to come and share experiences because I guarantee you they're talking about discovery they're talking about uh uh legal challenges they're talking about uh policy development advocating for open the difficulties in in all of that that we are all I know that some of our stakeholders that stakeholders are different with open education and open research but there are enough common areas where we can work together but so work in your communities of practice but bring the some of those together and I have some ideas of how we can do that next year uh sometimes I have too many ideas so but you know I think this one is really an important one and it was inspiring to have this session and I think the last thing which is really important for me to just very very briefly touch on is we we can also learn a lot about how we're looking at funding open infrastructure we must look at this in the open education community and in the open research community yeah so I was talking about that earlier on about um we need to really have a thriving open infrastructure that supports all of our work and um that we care for it and fund it so one of the things that spark Europe has been doing and leading on is it's called scost.org and that's community funding for open science infrastructure sorry about that oh what's happened there help yes uh so the community's helped raise more than three million euros for several essential infrastructures so we need to think about we need to be creative about different business models for our textbooks for our OERs but also the infrastructure the discovery systems the storage systems um um other schemas that we depend upon so um I think that's something that we can really work on together and I know that Paul Stacey and I we're really keen to join forces to share our experiences on that and to move things forward as well and that also feeds into the UNESCO recommendation so um so those are some examples of how we can work together um I'm really excited about those uh opportunities and I'm really looking forward to also working more with Creative Commons also for them to support the open research community and really get more publishers and authors to use CC licenses yeah I mean that's an uphill struggle still I've been talking too much haven't I Catherine? No I'm just looking at the question is what is your view published before or only after a view and there's other things about how we work are we stronger distributed um or you know because individuals I think the point is I think we're stronger distributed individuals burn out and such a model isn't sustainable or kind to individuals so there's a lot of chat going on so it's great to have that interaction so um but I think that you know there's so much still to do right you know there's so much um and in doing this the strategy planning at Creative Commons over the past three months the striking thing is that all of these different opens we have to find the elements that we have in common to collaborate to make impact and create impact and you know some people talk about the big open but I think there's definitely some piece of work of connection collaboration to achieve what we want to achieve even when we have this diversity within and that's the great that's the great thing about that creativity that that has in that diversity because of that diversity of thought creates the new knowledge the new way of thinking the the the solutions for the pressing problems that we're going to face in the next 20 years and we know a lot of that is around uh climate and we we see that at the moment one of my my my colleagues is I think in Iowa today it was or yesterday it was 17 degrees 18 degrees and this is the what the 20th of November in Iowa 20 degrees you know it's it's it you know the climate crisis that we're in as well as the the the other challenges that we face are things that we are all touched by um and can think about how we work together on and open as part of the solution to some of the those pressing problems we haven't considered but you know we've thought a lot about with the open COVID pledge about thinking about you know we could have an open climate pledge where we share resources and think about how that public resource and public good um but uh yeah so much to do and that's great to be friends today to think about ways that we can work together to solve those problems yeah and you know actually thinking about COVID I think COVID is really an opportunity where there's really an urgency for more openness and there is uh there are some great opportunities for us to work more together um you know uh so um much as it's it's brought us you know terrible really terrible times and impacted us on us in in many different ways I think um going forward working more together to help solve some of these you know really urgent problems together like you say climate change or COVID or other things through the opens and we need to demonstrate that more effectively also to our governments to our funders to our institutions about you know what we what what we are doing really matters and um so um yeah it's been really lovely to share some of these thoughts today and have a have a have a conversation publicly I didn't really think about how many we're watching but it's been really nice to to chat and to spare some thoughts on this and I love when Clara has put a comment on saying I'm told my 13 year old yesterday when I you know how to explain to properly attribute below the photograph taken from from Wikimedia Commons and things so it's lovely to see people interacting on the chat saying how you're flying CC and um I'm like I've got a bit of job of work to do with my 50 year old and nine year old so I'll be on it after this call uh I put some links by the way on the our page um there are some links if you want to kind of go and look at some of the references I've used so uh go ahead do but do get in touch and if you disagree with anything that I said I would love to continue discussing so anybody uh my email is this I shared the link to your session session on the connect platform so please invite invite everyone to to respond there thank you we're at the end of this session so a big applause for you it was a great and very interesting session and and very interactive with a lot of responses from the from the participants so really thank you very much could you stop the recording Bea thank you