 So, okay. Welcome to what the F is going on in Latin America, Code Pink's weekly YouTube program of hot news out of Latin America and the Caribbean. We broadcast every Wednesday, 7.30 p.m. Eastern, 4.30 p.m. Pacific. Tonight, our guest is Jose Carlos Verena. He is a member of the Peruvian political organization, La Junta, and is also a member of the Peruvian chapter of Alba Movimientos. Jose is joining us live from Liva, Peru this evening. Welcome, Jose. Welcome, Terry, welcome. I'm so, I'm so pleased that you had time. I want our audience to know that Jose just sat down in front of his computer and camera. He's been out doing some political activity in Lima, Peru. And we have him here this evening to speak with us about the upcoming second round Peruvian presidential elections to be held on June 6th. The first round elections were on April 11th with 18 candidates. And so we're gonna talk about what's coming up in Peru in June, what the ramifications of the election results could mean for the hemisphere of the Americas. But first, Jose, tell us a little bit about both of these organizations that you belong to to give our audience a bit of context as to your work. Well, Terry, first of all, thank you so much for the invitation. To me, it's a pleasure to share with you and with all people around the world. I think not only in America who are watching this interview. Well, as you introduced me, I am a comrade and militant of the political organization La Junta. It's an organization that have almost 10 years, nine years. Well, our organization was born after the betrayal of Ollanta Umala in 2011, 2012, because Ollanta Umala in such a time represent a light of hope for different people from the left. Even my parents that are teachers, they belong to the teachers union. They were during very years, much years away from far from politics from all that kind of debate. And Ollanta Umala get together different person from the left dispersed, but then he betrayed the project. Not unlike what we've seen in afterward. Yeah, and a lot of people incorporate their own political organization and La Junta is one of them and we still there. And as La Junta, we are a member also of the Peruvian chapter Alba Movimientos. Alba Movimientos is a social movement networks from Caribe, Latin America, Mesoamerica, also. And where there are most, more than 200 social movements with different struggles, peace and struggle, labor struggle, due to struggle, struggle, women struggle. But the thing in common that we have is that we have the same enemy, the same enemy or the safe challenge in order to build a continental project. So that in such a way as we belong, as we are a member of Alba Movimientos, for example, we have met and we have new a lot of experience, not just not in Latin America, but for example in North America, in New York, in Los Angeles, in Washington, you have, as I told always to our comrades in US, you are struggling, you are fighting in the core of the imperialism because we are fighting with the arm length of the imperialism in our territories. But you are... We're inside. Yes, yes, and that's very difficult and require a lot of brave and you are also an example for us and for that reason to me is an honor and I am too grateful to be here. Well, we're so happy you had time to speak with us today. Let's talk about, oh gosh, now I have a couple, I had outlined with you a direction for this conversation, but now that we're talking about social movements, there's a whole other area I'd like us to open up and talk about, but let's first talk about what happened on April 11th in Peru. This was the first round presidential elections. There were 18 candidates. Some of our viewers will possibly remember an episode we did right before, that week before the elections. We had a brief analysis of what could potentially happen on the 11th. Now we know what's happened on the 11th. So why don't you give us a little bit of political context? Okay. Yes, I think it's necessary to bring and a background issue here because these elections of the April 11th are not another election more. And this is not only because this is an election in the year we are celebrating our first independence. 200 years of the first independence, we're still fighting for the second and definitive independence here. But the key to understand this election, April 11th election is that we are in Peru right now, since November of the past year, last year, in a convergence of crisis. Why a convergence of crisis? Because we have been suffering political crisis since 2017 almost. And this crisis was triggered by the corruption judicial investigations around the other break construction company case. This Brazilian, this huge Brazilian company have made a lot of bribe, a lot of schemes of corruption in different government in Peru. And that's why, for example, all the former presidents, all the former, all the Peruvian former presidents are under investigations or are under prevent detention for corruption. And how many is that? How many? Well, we have Oya Tumala, we have Fujimori, Keiko Fujimori was, I don't know how many months, but she was on jail for prevent detention. The wife of Oya Tumala, Nadine Heredia, Pedro Pablo Kuchinsky was also under investigation for a case of white-collar corruption. Yes, Alejandro Toledo is right now in United States trying to avoid the Peruvian justice. Alan Garcia gets suicide. He cowardly, he didn't face the justice when there was a lot of proof, a lot of evidence that the scheme of corruption. So all the political class was immersed in this kind of corruption scandal, the political environment, all the political actors. And this includes not just the political parties the political parties only, also the huge, the large Peruvian capitalists, the bourgeoisie, the oligarchy, the bourgeoisie. Such kind of bright corruption scheme were possible with the Peruvian partner and that partner, such partners are Peruvian oligarchy related to huge construction companies as Miroquesada family, as Grania family. And this crisis also touched their media because this oligarchy, they concentrate the mass media in Peru. So this crisis, political crisis were going very, going deep and deep and deep each year, each year, each year from 2017 until now, until November from the last year where was the parliament coup by Merino and the people protesting the street, a lot of days in the streets, very good struggle with the forces, sadly two young comrades were killed by the police. But well, such is the political crisis that we will be living since 2017. But since the pandemic, another two crisis get together to this crisis, the social and economic crisis. And this crisis responds to 30 years of the neoliberal project in Peru that was inaugurated in Peru and established in Peru by Alberto Fujimori. So that's a first key to understand a lot of facts around the April 11 election because, and I think the research of both during the last week contained and says that a lot of people didn't know for both for whom? Because all the political class is this delegitimated, nobody trusts in politician, nobody trusts in institution, nobody trusts in the, in this liberal democracy that is falling down each day, but the conservative, the reactionary forces, the bourgeoisies, the legal key are done, they aren't going to let this fall. They are going to try to recycle this by any kind of way. So in that context is what Pedro Castillo, a rural teacher representing Peru Libre Socialist Party, won the election because he played the role of how we call here in Peru, the outsider, the anti-establishment candidate who had a really good lecture and interpretation of the reality and have a good way to dialogue here people's needs. And that in a context of convergence of crisis, as I told you, for a political crisis, social crisis and economic crisis. So he was on the first round presidential elections, Pedro Castillo was one of 18 candidates and he was one of two progressive leftist candidates. And so what happened in that mix of the progressive leftist vote? The other candidates were all, as you said, they represent the capitalist, oligarchy, the bourgeois, several, I believe five candidates were actually part of Fujimora's financing campaigning and basically they're trying to cover all bases for themselves if one didn't win somebody else would. So we're looking at the second round elections on June 6th with Pedro Castillo and Fujimori's daughter, who is, is that correct? Yes, that's the- So looking at somebody on the pretty far social left and somebody very far oligarchic right. Yes, this second round, if we see the first research poll, we can, I think that the contradiction in this second round is not about left and right. I think it's more in the key of rich against poor and Lima against regions against the places, forgotten places in Peru, the capital against the region. And I think it's important to state this because Pedro Castillo, I think that the most responsible way to characterize him is to say that he's a popular leader. There's no doubt about that. He's a popular leader. In the last research poll, he's winning, like 40 to 20 to Fujimori, more than 20 points of difference. And when you see what, which is the main reason people vote for Pedro Castillo, 40% of their vote of his voters said, because he's like me, he's like me. He's a regular guy, he's a guy in the streets, a guy that they use, I don't know, he's a worker. He's a working class man in the Indian region. So I think that it is important to characterize this. And I think that that's still being a debate and a space of dialogue even within the left here because, well, I don't know, but in Latin America, I think we have a lot of experience where the left or the institutional left didn't recognize and didn't recognize at the beginning a popular leader. For example, in Venezuela, Hugo Chavez didn't have the trust of the left parties. No, but they say, no, but you're a military, you're not Marxist, you're not these left labels. And Bolivia, Evo Morales also didn't recognize himself as a Marxist from the beginning because he's a union leader. Here in Peru, also in the 68 military carryout, rising civil, military, rising Velazco Alvarado and the left parties oppose them because he's not revolutionary because he's a military but he represents the most democratic sovereignty and popular government we have had into 200 years in Peru. So I think it's important to have that kind of characterization of Pedro Castillo and this second round that the contradiction is more as rich against poor and region against Lima. I see. So let's talk about Pedro Castillo and his win or his progression to the second round elections in June. When we started our conversation, you were talking about Alba Movimientos and being a collective of social movements in the Caribbean and Latin America. And we've talked on this program multiple times about the importance of social movements and political parties and candidates coming out of the movement versus the other way around where the party creates a base under it. It's more effective when the base, when the movement is there and the candidates in the party come out of that. Can you talk to us a bit about the role social movements played in Pedro Castillo's campaign? Yes, well, I think there is the successful of Pedro Castillo in the first round can be explained with two questions. Who is Pedro Castillo? And also, what is Peru Libre? Pedro Castillo, as I told you, is a rural teacher. He have been a representative of a group within the teachers union. He's a lot of experience in such a union negotiation and dispute. He also have been a regional leader in their Andean town in Cajamarca, in Chota. And he also has been a rural peasant, what we call here, Bronderos. Brondas campesinas, rural peasant. They are like, they are the low and order for saying now the kind of way in the Andean song, in the towns of the regions of Peru, but it have a lot of Andean tradition of our indigenous people tradition, the peasant patrol, the Rondeiro. And he has been, he has belonged to this communitary movement that is the peasant patrols in Peru. And when I tell you this, what I'm trying to say also is that behind Castillo, you have a lot of teachers, a lot of teachers from the union that they are not fighting for desolation. They're still fighting since many years ago. They have a lot of agenda, a lot of complaints to the government, to the state. He represent the most poor teachers you can imagine, the teachers of the rural song, of the Andean song that maybe they don't have the same agenda that a teacher in Lima that is poor too, but he doesn't suffer the precarious, the lack of everything that suffers the rural teacher. Also you have the peasant patrol movement, the Rondeiro that they are, they have a lot of territorial work along all Peru in the coast, in the Andean and in the Amazon. They have a lot of work and the teachers and the peasant patrols and also some evangelistic group have support Pedro Castillo's campaign during the first round. I am talking about evangelistic groups because in Peru evangelistic groups work in the real ground a social movement because they support networks of soldiers that have a lot of work and they have a lot of work and they have a lot of work and they have a lot of work and they support networks of solidarity, education, health to poor people. So they have an important role in the periphery of the cities and also in the rural song. So that's the social movement behind Pedro Castillo leadership, but also it's Peru Libre. That is the political instrument, political party that is, it has a declared ideology of socialists, mariades and this party is a leader by Vladimir Serrong, Peruvian doctor, former in Cuba and with a lot of conscience of the international solidarity and the union of the projects in Latin America. So with the social movement behind Pedro Castillo, the peace and patrol, the teachers and the evangelistic group and the party that have built during from I think 10 years ago, more than 10 years ago Vladimir Serrong, not in Lima in the region because he's a party that declared we are in region, we are not in Lima. I think these two aspects have been the keys to the successful of Pedro Castillo. This is interesting, I think this is really important for our audience to understand what you're saying. This is a conflict, a contest between rich and poor and between the capital and the rest of the region of the country. I think that's a really fascinating concept to hear. And also for our audience, there are evangelicals working throughout Latin America who lean progressive to leftist and as you said, they're working in community on the ground in healthcare and education, in small farming projects. And that's a different definition of evangelical than we are used to identifying with in the United States. And I think that's important that you brought that up. Let's talk about, I wonder if you can comment on some of the, not some are perhaps, what the political climate is right now leading up to the elections? Are people feeling secure going into the elections? Do they feel that they'll be able to vote freely and fairly and in a safe and secure manner? Do people feel threatened? What's the climate leading up to June 6th feeling like for you? Okay, just two things for the last question. Here in Peru, there is a lot of evangelistic groups that are the territorial force, social force of the right wing and the very extreme right wing. However, there are also these evangelistic groups that are not in that way. And I think that the trouble has been that maybe we, the Peruvian left of the Lima left, we have been into a square of what is left. Oh no, you are evangelistic. Oh no, you are not left. And the real thing is that we have to dispute the common sense in the territories with evangelistic, with Catholic, with people. People, we have to do it with people because without people, we have nothing. And the second thing is the third thing that warranty and or that explain the successful of Castillo is something that our Comrade Ricardo said is that Castillo have the best political advisor because his political advisor has been the reality. No more else, the reality. He have demonstrated to read, understand what people need, what people is claiming right now in this deep, deep, deep crisis. We are the first, we're the most little country of COVID in all the world. We are in really trouble here. So that's an important point to highlight. Well, around the environment right now, since April 11, Lima, most Lima, but the country have polarized, have polarized because for the characterization, you said at the beginning of the program, but the violence environment, the hate environment feel more in the coast and in the main cities as Lima for something. Here are more conservative, anti-left, anti-communist. And this has been declared in the streets by people, but also in the mass media. A couple of days ago, the main channels in Peru, the main media, television media, television channel have made some change in their stuff in order to have journalists that live, working around fake news and that kind of magartism strategies. All the front page of all newspaper are against Castillo or saying good things about Keiko Fujimori, what is ridiculous. And also, but also we have been feeling a climate of violence, of violence, different kind of violence. First, for example, Mario Vargas-Josa, Nobel Prize have said that basically he have said that if Pedro Castillo won, the army will make a coup. So don't vote for Pedro Castillo. He's inciting the military to play a role in this political dispute. But also, and this happened yesterday and we are very, very worried about this. We just, last night we made a statement of solidarity. They are start to apply and to use the loafer strategy they have used in different countries in Latin America. Yesterday, the judicial power reopened a case against our comrade Guillermo Bermejo, a Lima congressman elected for Peru Libre. In a case that there was never evidence. There was no evidence. There was no evidence, but right now, surprisingly, in a random way, they reopened the case for May 18. So they are playing all their cards because they are scared. They are really scared because Pedro Castillo's strategy is not in the manual, is not in the guidelines, the right wing always had a guideline that we have to say was very effective to neutralize the left, the progressive left, a left that live trying to have the approval of the right wing, have to comply with all the checklist of the profile of what is a modern left. Castillo said, I don't care about it. And the last thing he have said or how he have showed this anti-establishment attitude is something that right now is in the media. He treat without, he don't have a treatment of respect and hierarchy to the main media. So on Sunday in the main political program, he said to the journalist, well, I told you I have 10 minutes, I am talking with my comrades of the union, I'm a comrade with the indigenous, so I have to say goodbye, goodbye. Nobody do that, nobody do that. He cares about the people. And people said, that's our guy because media don't help us, media criminalize the poor people. So we are living in that, we're in such environment for that reason. I, sorry that I take a little seconds to this, but I invite all comrades, all people around the world to support with solidarity the election, the Perugian election, the second round election this June 6th, in order to support the popular candidature of Pedro Castillo, a rural teacher, a regional leader, and mostly the hope to open a new, a new path of change, of deep change and structural change in our country. Well, thank you so much Jose. I guess we should share with the audience that we have been, we at Code Pink have been talking with you in hopes of coming to Peru in June, to observe the elections and to stand in solidarity with the Peruvian people and the Castillo campaign. And so we would love as many people as possible to be able to do that, to be able to do that with us. I wanna thank you. You're welcome, she's cool, she's too. Where's, I'm so very pleased to have met you and to have spoken with you this evening. I think it's just what you've shared with us is such, it's a profound story. And I think for many of us living in the United States, the Castillo campaign, the man himself is such a breath of what we would say in English, a breath of fresh air that he's listening to the people, the campaign is being driven by the people's voices and the people's needs. He's not capitulating to what the media wants and needs and it's very inspiring. It's very inspiring even for those of us outside of Peru and it must just be very thrilling for those of you within the country. Yes, we hope one, just to, don't forget what you told me about the outlines of the interview. For I think that the winning of Castillo, for example, you're better than me at this tonight. We'll impact into, put end to this Lima group that really is a Ottawa group or a White House group because it is a embarrassing experience to have this kind of alliance in our country in order to avoid our unity of the people, of the project, of the emancipatory project here. So I think that Pedro Castillo is going to, Pedro Castillo's winning will change the geopolitical scheme here in Latin America and will, I think it will contribute to open a multilateral, a more multilateral continent. Wouldn't that be a wonderful thing for all the peoples of the Americas, for the world actually, to see that happen in this hemisphere? That's a very, for our audience, when Jose mentions the Lima group, that's a group of nations. It's a subgroup within the organization of American states. And many of, many people in the audience will understand that this is the group that supports Washington and the State Department overthrowing the government of Venezuela, basically making the Americas all one U.S. unilateral, a wide hemisphere. Yeah, so and unfortunately, it carries the name of your capital. So thank you, Jose. Is there anything we forgot to talk about tonight? Anything that you wanna specifically mention to our audience before I let you go? Well, again, thank you. Thank you so much, Terri. Hot from here, from all you of Code Pink. You, as I told here to the comrades in the Peruvian chapter of Habla Movimiento, I have told them about the brave effort you made in order to defend the Venezuela Bolivarian sovereignty. So you are an inspiration for us. We were following where you were dealing with how to get food with all the squalidos outside, all the people, nasty people. And we said, oh, with a drone, with another guy who, it was like a, it was so crazy, but you inspire us a lot, a lot. And well, to me, I think that for that reason, I said that it's an honor to be here. And then what I said, the final thing is don't let to learn and to have a wide vision, a wide lecture of the struggle of peoples around the world because we can get a lot of learning. We can learn a lot from what you are doing. For example, what is happening right there in the police repression, the huge police repression that have some similarities only here and not even reach them, but the Brazilian police violence or Colombia. But you are dealing there with a really huge trouble that we in Latin America also see and we are following what you are doing. We are following the struggles. We expect that people in America get the unity of the struggles and then the transition to a project together. But I think that that's the one of the most important thing of internationalism to learn about our achieve. Our, I think we have done well, but we're all together in this struggle in the same side. We are, we're all in it together. And we will all be watching Peru in June and in the weeks to come before June 6th. And I hope that you and I can talk again after the elections. Hopefully we will be celebrating. Yes, yes, I'm sure. At the very least we will talk about what happened, but hopefully we can have a big party online on the 7th. So thank you, Jose. I wanna thank our audience for tuning in this evening and remind you that what the F is going on in Latin America broadcasts on Code Pink YouTube Live every Wednesday, 7 30 p.m. Eastern, 4 30 p.m. Pacific. And also you be sure to tune in to Code Pink Radio every Thursday morning, 11 a.m. Eastern, 8 a.m. Pacific. And that radio program broadcasts, simulcasts actually on WBAI out of New York City and WPFW out of Washington, D.C. So again, thank you, Jose. And please know we stand in solidarity with you and we hope to be in Peru with you come June. And thank you again for your time. And thank you for your political activism earlier today. Was wonderful, still. Thank you, thank you, Therese.