 Hello friends Good morning, okay Let's see. I am a little bit behind here, so I haven't created our page yet, but we can do it in real time Perhaps Bruce are you there as well? I see you but just checking in. Okay. Hey good day So I just got out of a meeting out of a meeting Bruce that they said, you know, they still want to They're they're interested in the pico lab stuff Because they're doing some they have a customer that that has an IOT use case and we had mentioned you guys So, you know, it's early days. No no idea how a collaboration could Be possible maybe it would be nice to get An idea or sense. I mean, obviously pico labs is Supposed to be helpful for students who are, you know, learning about IOT and and and wanting to implement things, but I didn't know if you guys have kind of Partners and and like market use cases and stuff like that or if it's purely academic and I I mean no no disrespect by saying purely academic. Hopefully Hopefully that doesn't come off badly No, no, that's fine. It's It's mostly academic but It was used in an actual product for connected vehicles Okay, and was that like a Was that a Like a positive Interaction and do you feel like it was useful for pico labs as a as an organization or Yes, it was it predated pico labs per se Oh, okay So it was an it was an actual company that bill winley ran and He had I don't know dozens of clients Dozens of customers and it only ended because The manufacturer of the device that you plugged into the car Seized operations. Okay Yeah, fair roots ID knows all about Runways in terms of projects ending and You know work work discontinuing. So I understand that Yep, since then Phil has used it in a class that he teaches every year Gosh, yeah, so Okay, very good. I'm using it on an internal project As a proof of consent Okay There are a few dozen people who know how to how to set up a pico system Okay And Hirely fills former students Gotcha Telegram sand even knows how to do it. Oh, interesting. Okay And then can you compare it in terms of ssi Can you are you aware of other iot? projects Or related things and can you compare kind of pico labs to those other projects Yeah, so I'm a member of of an iot special interest group at diff And so but that group is working mainly at a That I don't really want to say higher level but at a level closer to Concepts and marketing and white papers and that sort of Yeah, to me my understanding is that a group is not that technical Heavy like the iot group at diff. Is that correct? Yes. I'm I'm probably the most technical person there. Yeah I have I have a little trouble actually bridging because I don't I don't think the same way They do yeah I've listened to to some of the meetings are some of the recordings and yeah, I was like more Business focused right in development focus. Yeah Trying to figure out where where ssi fits into the internet of things and very I mean everybody is is jumping on board Internet of things devices And we we would like to see them doing self sovereign identity of some sort Yeah Gotcha, and then any other uh projects that you know of um that are ssi iot related No, I don't really okay. Yeah, very good. Thank you Uh, okay, um, I think I saw yep roto hop into cool great. Uh, so today is the oh hi. How are you? Good welcome back He's he's still across the world Yeah, great Okay, this is the uh, February 13th 2023, uh areas did come v2 working group Uh, please be aware of the hyper ledger antitrust policy and the hyper ledger code of conduct And if you would like please add yourself to the attendees list Uh bruce you you were left over from from last week. So you're already on there Let's see and so was I by the way, um Okay, if we want we can uh, just go around real quick and if anybody has anything specific that they want to talk about in terms of Did come v2 related things? Um And then I'll I'm happy to go through the status of everything or if you want to wait till we go through the status. That's fine, too The only thing I have is that there is like the open wallet foundation has a did come v2 presentation today Yes, thank you. When that is uh, let's see That is The hour before the Diff did come use a group. Okay And uh, I'll be leading the diff did come uh, use a group. So any support and help uh, is much Appreciated so that that's a good convo, too But okay, that means today is full did come day for uh, for roots. I teach Yeah Yeah, open wallet Okay, good. Good. Oh Okay, you want some right? Yeah, yeah, I'll tag along and I haven't talked to Sam exactly how we're gonna break it down yet, but I'm sure We'll figure out a way. Yeah Yeah, basically, basically Sam wants alex to kind of be the hey, I've actually done, you know did come v2 and You know, I can It's not just the theory that sam, you know, we'll be presenting. So so alex is providing some, you know Tangible experience Yeah, so what I'm planning on doing is kind of like uh, they exactly speak a little bit a couple minutes It's about like my experience developing they come v2 protocols and then run through the cheaper notebook real quick and then Yeah, like do the basic message flow that we have between alice and bob and like show them like how relatively straightforward it is Once you already have public mediators available So we can kind of like also like mark it over mediator that way The jupiter notebook that you're referring to is from your jff activities or No, so the rodolfo has like a sample Like as a basic message between rodolfo between alice and bob and like a kind of like I Like tweaked it a little bit. Uh, so yeah, just like using that one just in the basic message We're like actually like issuing credentials and Anything like that way. Yeah there. Okay, great Um, okay. So, yep, uh, I'll try to attend that for sure. I'll at least be listening in And good Okay, anything else pressing We want to add to discussion topics Yeah, okay, let's go through status real quick Um aries agent test harness. Uh, I keep saying I'm going to work on this and I have done some but most of what I'm doing is um Trying to uh integrate an agent. Uh, that's a non aries specific agent In into it and well it took time and then I since have been Pulled off into other things So that keeps happening. Uh, but I guess that's how Test harness life goes sometimes. So I don't have uh really anything to report on there again The goal is to eventually start filling in aip 3.0 especially did conv2 related tests and to show Well for for me personally and for root's idea essentially to show this um Agent from from outside of the aries ecosystem being integrated. So That's all I have to say about that anything for aries ascar In terms of akapai, uh, you know, we haven't had how come back since uh, he's switched roles and Yeah, I haven't heard maybe I should ping him in the discord server and just see how he's doing uh, I I mean we really appreciated his contributions before but yeah, I also understand how Events ob e right overcome by events All right, it's I'll try to I'll try to reach out Okay aries framework javascript. I I still have not seen any movement on Um the pull request for did com v2 So that remains in on hold as well Yeah I have seen some movement in terms of oidc And it's possible that that's partly um being fueled by uh Ebsi, which is the european blockchain service infrastructure It looks like they uh are an oidc based communication ssi stack so, um, it's possible that afj is seeing movement in oidc for that but That's just speculation on my part Okay, uh picos As area agent yeah any updates for that bruce It was the off week for the students they meet with us every other week. Okay Tomorrow, so I have nothing new to report there. I'm hoping So just over did conv2 But uh, I'll be not tomorrow Okay, very good Uh, no, I haven't seen any movement uh for did come for the swift framework Uh, in fact the last thing I saw on that I think was a did conv one thing, but that was quite a while ago And then varamo anything on that alex you've seen for did conv2 Yeah, actually, so yeah varamo they last week, I think they merged mediation So now their agent will be able to do mediation and I was talking to nick And he's saying that they're gonna like publish like a mediator like a varamo mediator soon um, so Yeah, that's the update there Oh, yeah, I looked through their their PR and everything. Yeah, nice Okay, very good And yeah, I think um Yeah, roots id's mediator, you know continues to be useful uh that that uh, you know, I hadn't really, uh Understood how often that that might come up in different situations, but yeah having a mediator out there as you know seems to be uh, quite useful for the community, so This is good to see more mediators possibly coming online Is that a v2? Yeah Ah, we talking about varamo or roots id and that Yeah, both Well, maybe I can get the students talking to you Yeah, that would be awesome. Uh, okay, uh mobile. I don't have any updates on that. I haven't been attending those meetings lately. Just too busy Um, I haven't heard anything going on about the aries mediator service Any That's a good question Uh, I don't know Actually, maybe I assumed uh, it was v2, but that's probably a silly assumption giving given uh, what we know about the aries ecosystem Yes, I I expect this this call to be the leading edge of that. Yeah. Yeah fair okay how about for um Aviary tech there did come uh type script info Any any movement on that anyone seen? I was a minute. Oh, yeah, it's talking to brian. There's like, uh, he's been working on ydc lately Uh, so yeah, like no movement on the on the newcomer stuff Um, have we seen a good comparison between oidc and did come? I mean, uh Oh, we have like a riot w Yeah, have we seen like a published one that we can reference? Um Because uh more and more especially with the the ebsi Um, you know right now I'm being focused on oh i dc. I feel like I need to be well first on The differences. Oh i dc was new to me, you know until I came to i or until I was introduced to it at i w But I don't claim to have Well, uh, at least what what I know is i dc is server to client, right? So that's the main difference Yeah That's the server issue credentials and you are the client and that's it. But that's the only the only thing I know Yeah, so more web 2 Kind of model more 100% right Yeah, it's like a federal it's a Yeah, federal academic system It's like a federation type of model Right So so a bit uh apples or just comparison, but um because of But obviously, you know major overlap in terms of uh issue credential and things like that Yeah, it's like comparing a widec for vp and vc with uh issue credential and present proof Yeah, that would be like a better comparison. Yeah Okay fair enough Um, okay, uh carry Working group Okay, I think I can share the this the link. This is a pr. Well, it's not the pr. It's actually a push on the this repo on the carry The id carry resolver. Okay, so I published. Yeah, I published like Hello war showing How a carry can use as a alternative to pure d id Great and then there's a utility That has all the other functions using the the carry by using python great is do um Do you want to give us kind of uh I got your high level. What's your high level takeaway is as you're going through This I I can I can show the okay. Let me run the the script and I can go Okay. Yeah, that would be awesome Yeah, let me stop sharing Stop sharing You see the Yeah, looks good Okay, so if I run I'm gonna just run this Then then I can go through the code, but the idea is this one is using the same sigma Did come library But instead of using pr d id I plug in the carry the id so This is a hello war where Alice created the id and you see this is the carry the id how it looks looks like this did carry and this This identifier right Uh, but this this in order to resolve this identifier in carry you need to to go and talk to the asian or we need to come up with with a with An alternative and the way we we found that can be implemented easily. It's like adding Take this as a d id url another Uh query parameter that is the key event with this long base 64 Path, right And this basic 64 path You can decode it and actually get the inception event of the carry so in in that In that event you're going to find all the extra information that Uh That you need as as an alternative to d the pier that is the encryption keys The sign increase and the service endpoint Can you and and yeah, can you can you compare that to how pier did works? I mean it sounds familiar Right. Yeah, so so I compare this with the length. I write if you have a d the pier here this is a like similar d id That I plug in just to compare the length. So this is a d the pier a full d the pier and then you have this this one as a Carry d id that includes that include the the key event, right? so Once you have the I did A pier d id like this one You go and call a library and the library can resolve that in the in the document that shows you the the The keys the encryption key the signing keys and the service endpoint Right in this case in did carry you can do the same Plugging in the library that is what what I did and Decrypt that part and resolve the key event and actually You can validate that this Key event that is encoded here is the one that So that's one on the fancy sink of party things off Carry that you can validate that this part is the one that produce this identifier So everything is in in the same d id is self-contained and you can resolve it And get the all the information in it and after that once you resolve it In the next messages, you don't need to use the full d id I can just pass you this one the short version Because you have you Yeah, because you already resolve it And and that's gonna be really short and that's I think it was the main reason why daniel Asked for something like that because these peers were really really long, right? Once you start using this DPR in the id these com messages You need to pass all this da for the Sender and the receiver and that's a lot of information flowing and flowing again So if you if you just passed the first time and the second time use the short one That's gonna be I think it's efficient So roto both parties then have their own copy of the key event log Yes, once once. Yeah, also. Okay. This is gonna be like we call it non-transferable Identifier carry identifier Because they cannot be rotated. So it's gonna be just like it here It's gonna have you you create that with all the information and then you cannot change it You cannot change the keys and not the information of the document Uh Same way as you as you using dpr I think is the algo number two. I think it's the one So you you cannot change it right And But okay, once you risk once you resolve the first time you store it if you have the A cache like a cache in your your asian then every time you see this short d id You can you know what to do, right? So you're saying that the Long form of the did carry has the ability to rotate But the short form of the did carry is like that Current whatever the current state. Oh, no. No. No. No. No. No just this one Is you you cannot rotate it. It's it's like a fix Uh, so like Good question. Yeah So is the idea that the long one you send it in the out-of-bound invitation and then all the other messages you send the short one, right? That's because the out-of-bound invitation in this case. Yeah, but for example in yeah in the out-of-bound You're gonna send this one But the other party and then when I reply to that they need to also send the long one Uh, he's long long one to two Alice, right? Right. So like the handshake like the first messages that we exchange There are slightly heavier, but then all the messages we exchange afterwards with the same Session keys quote-unquote would be like smaller because we can resolve those keys Right, right. And that's what yeah, that's the idea. So what this is what I did is Alice So if you go to the to the messages Alice Yeah You the Alice created the basic message Yeah, with the laundry Because it has the full the full state here you can decrypt it But then One once one are Replied to Alice they can use the short because Yes Right So like let's say if you wanted to rotate you would just send like a message with like a new long carry the id and then from one end and then the other one they can still Reply with their previous carry the id Yeah, you mean when I rotate the d ad that's what I was saying No, yeah, yeah Did did it come already have all the mechanisms to rotate the ad so There is a feel in the in the message that is called from prior from prior So you you you send a new message and you say my previous d ad was this one So you have a like a challenge Right, yeah So I think I don't maybe Lance you're asking that because you're trying to see if you can use in carry That can be rotated the I mean the where the keys can be rotated that was for your question Yeah, I mean my I guess In everything that I've learned about carry. I always hold on to the fact that the pre-rotation mechanism that carry talks about is By far the most core value that that carry provides and so I am surprised that we're talking about um That can't be rotated Yeah, right because okay. This is the first step Just to have something similar and alternative to pure the id just for that. Okay, right So this is what makes it carry light. Is this why we call it carry light? Yeah, that's what we call. Yeah Daniels calls at the beginning carry light and okay Don't want to call it. Oh, okay. Sure Because you use this one can be self-adversible. So you you need to be resolved in line and And because the did come already have a mechanism to rotate the id So you are not talking you are talking about the ephemeral Yeah Yeah, that's what we're to be alone like the Real id that you want to use to keep it for a long long period of time that need the keys to be Rotated that's another story. Okay, so for for that one There are other mechanisms or producing the did so the did is going to be always the same short one But the what do you include in the query parameters are going to be different in this case in For the dp alternative we include the the insertion event like the only event that this this a id or this The id is going to have right, but if you're going to rotate it Instead of adding the key event because we're going to be multiple events of the given log you are the An uvi so the uvi what it tells is still okay You have to go to that witness or whatever asian and ask for the full key event log Oh, that's gonna be a same option of like a Did carry along for And the third option is instead of giving this uvi you're gonna just send that And based on your on the ecosystem that you are Uh, you're gonna call like a super watcher that everybody knows that exists And unresolved at the id so for example if we in our case if we use A cardano and we have a super watcher that We know that All the identifiers Create it in in cardano can be resolved by this Watcher we can call call it and and ask for the full key event log But that's okay. That's was a lot of things That is not needed for did it come right? Okay, got you so There is no connection between the ephemeral carry dids and the Persistent carry dids or am I right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah Same way did pier and whatever you're gonna be the yeah, right. Yeah, the dids is gonna be the same but the what you The needs of one or the other is different, right? in the simple simplistic Need for did it come you just need the inception event and you come Based all the section of any in the in the same In the same the id for and then remove it when once you You cash all the purpose Okay This is really cool Roto, would you be able to share this sample output in some way? Like could you check it in as into this repo as as Sample a sample run Yeah, I think yeah, it's already I copy paste You get the Did I copy lance did I copy because I'm sharing the screen I cannot find the Where's the chat? Oh the chat. Yeah, you have to go up. Yeah. Yeah hit the chat. Yeah. Yeah on the chat On the chat, I paste the repo Where this demo is included? Yes, so you can go and just run I'm I'm just wondering for those of us who who are not python programmers But would like to look at this Could you could you add a sample output file to the repo? Oh, yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah, sure Yeah, I can also add it like a read me or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. This this is great Yeah, that is great roto. Thanks for walking us through that Okay Awesome, uh, let's see. Didn't I have any more questions on that since we're on it? I mean certainly Our next bullet point for status is Uh, trust over IP trust spanning protocol And so obviously carry has been A hot topic and obviously did come also has been discussed and so The better we can understand how these things will Can work together. I think the better that we can understand how They fit in the conversation for the trust spanning Protocol and beyond, you know, obviously there's multiple layers to that. So It's really good Anything else on the carry stuff? Okay Okay. Yeah, great. Okay. So I guess I can share again and Have one quick question So I guess I can the in the data resolver How do you store the dids if you have like cash dids? Is that a particular to carry question or you mean that in general? No, like in did come like right like, how do you know That you can use a cash did instead of a long form? Oh How I we saw that in the code is like I try to find if you have the If you receive a short version you you see that is storing your memory Or in your decent whatever I mean, how you are out, right? If you know how the cash version you're out, you're right Don't know. Okay. I never mind that was Is that that's just an agent specific thing? That's not really a did come specific thing or How do you do that? Yeah, like like the agent implementation side of things Yeah, I guess like whenever like you receive an item Yeah, there's a there's a problem if you receive Like supposed that you catch is no longer valid product or whatever you I think you are out and Probably you need to send something to the other party Yeah, I don't know how yeah, but you don't even know where to send it to right because your cash is out. That's uh, yeah Right Don't don't lose you need Yeah, call my phone. Yeah Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, that's okay fair enough. So yeah, like I guess like it adds this extra like edge case per se Uh, but yeah, that's the only thing But yeah, I like it because I could decrease the size of the message And like you usually don't rotate beads that often. So I think it's uh, it's a fair trade-off Yeah, can we talk about um, kind of the practical Uh point there that you're making Alex Because I haven't done a ton of uh, you know real world did come How how how long do we think a conversation? Um We'll we'll live on one of these um ephemeral Dids Right like You know, let's say that we we we start a conversation and you know, we've got our our did peers or our care, you know our special carry uh dids Should I just call them ephemeral dids in general? Is that yeah, I mean like I would use them like an interaction right like Whatever like a session is like an interactions like I think of them as like Session bids almost So if we if we take this zoom session that we're talking about would we have all negotiated new ephemeral dids To start this meeting Yeah, yeah, we can Uh, I guess Yeah, I mean like best practice is right like you're supposed to rotate keys and do all that kind of stuff So like our agents should automatically do it for us So like we shouldn't have like the same meeting with the same keys until we get hacked We need to create a new one, right? We should like create a new one like every single time So yeah, the regular rotation for every new session Uh is yeah a protective mechanism for us, but there is um overhead to it Yeah, like similar to like tls session like at some point like you need to refresh your Your authentication token and like you need to do like a new key exchange and like Uh like reset the the connection Yeah So maybe would it make sense for this type of dids to have like an Like an expiration time for the cache like hey like Indeed indeed it didn't come already resolved that that's that's a great thing of did it come So you have a way to rotate the d id you you have a similar d id that Ephemeral means that you you discard it if you have compromise or whatever you discard it and you have a way to To include I say this is my new d id And the d id can can be from a different method right and change everything So supposed that you are using a d id from one method and later you do that. Okay. This method is no no longer Yeah, I'm no longer traffic methods. I want to change this one because it's more Okay, I don't know more secure. You just rotate the d id Don't not you do not rotate the keys you rotate the d id itself And I assume you range arrange that somehow out of band using a different way Using did come itself. Oh, actually actually in no indeed it come you you did that in band So that's that's one of the features of did come So so the initial the initial setup of a session Or we'll call it an interaction It requires some out of band, but once you've done that you're saying that The there is a mechanism in the spec here for rotating The actual did instead of rotating keys Right. Yeah, and that's what one of them one of the main yeah features of You do Yes, like you will send like you're all did and you're new did and like Did come will handle like the crypto car like you're like make sure that like you sign you have control your keys and do all that Yeah, interesting So you can do key rotation technically with doing did rotation if your right is just Right, it would be kind of the thing That's correct. Yeah You know Okay This is great. This shouldn't be new to me, but I guess it is I've heard it before but Yeah, and the way it works is you you send When when you want to rotate the your DID you send a new message with your your new DID in the message But also at this field that is called from prior that you this is a is a field that has the Is a shawty Token that includes the signature of the old DID so the receiver can check that you are the owner of the old DID and validate That you have included everything So then you you you The receiver say, okay, this this guy's now is using this new DID And you're ready, but he's the same the same people the same person That's that's great. Thank you Lance. Would you be kind enough to put this tabs url in the chat? Absolutely, and I'm with you 100 bruce essentially You know I've got no ego on this and it feels like oh, I should have definitely known this But whenever I heard did rotation or key rotation my mind just said Oh, these are the same things like I you know, I have no reason to To to go look into this and yeah really I totally should Well, you can technically rotate dids and keep the same keys Oh really because like you Put like the same keys on Two different like store like two different storage mechanisms So like right like if you want to like store them somewhere else You can have the same keys and have like different method resolvers to to fetch those keys Now would that still work with a carry self-certifying? Did Yeah, I mean like it's just uh, they're just keys like in the cal those you have just keys in there So as long as you have you can store those public keys and like uh, right like on on chain Or something like that And put them there too like an ipfs some for example, I don't know Okay, interesting. Yeah, I'll have to connect those concepts in my mind better Because the so the the self-certifying part verse did peer Or did key Is there can we expand on that a little bit? Again, it feels like something I should know but uh, I'm fuzzy and if if we want to move on we can but uh Roto Yeah, I'm not sure like I'm personally like knowledgeable enough to speak on like self-certifying identifiers yet, so like I don't quite understand like I mean Yeah, like what you're asking for say. So, yeah, well, so so roto had said that Oh, you know, here's one of the nice mechanisms of carry That it is, uh, you know self-certifying uh identifier Uh, which you know, if I if I think about the diagrams that I've seen for carry, right? It's this strong binding between keys and identifiers and controller But then When I now that we're in my mind, I'm doing a comparison between did peer And carry I think it reveals that I don't Really have a strong sense of what it means that it's That that binding is strong like it does did peer have that same strong um three way right Yeah, that's right. Because once you receive a peer DID You can decode everything And get all the public keys in there, right? So the the identifier is itself the PID document So that's what we call. Yeah I think of it like you don't need the did resolver like if The identifier has all of the data you need to resolve it in itself without like a did resolver per se So like you need to transform the identifier to do something to get the data out of it That's my understanding Okay, so, um for so I think that what sam has said is essentially Dids that require Mechanisms outside of the identifier. Uh, there's a weakness there then right that that For instance, I guess he would say probably a did web or something like that if if if now that domain is hacked You need to rely on the resolver Yeah That's where the problem comes in but with did uh with did peer and this did carry That that rotos describing you don't have to rely on a resolver, right? It's We're saying that it's encoded in It's pretty much base 64 encoded in there. So like it's nothing else to do. Okay And then the the okay, and then the difference we've talked about before with did key is that the Did key is the same as the peer but only allows you to have a public Sign there's there's no service endpoint in the did document. Yeah, I'm not I'm not encryption. Yeah, fair. Just one one single one key For signing and that's it Yeah, it's like a pamphile. I think it is like a pamphile. It's just another way to express a public key like another format Like a JW key. We have expressed a key format Well, when we say though that you can uh Okay, so I for a second there. I was thinking, okay, I'm I'm strong between these three things and you know, how they work but then Now that you're saying one key Okay, yes Fair because you are saying that the identifier could be tie or you could have Yeah, I was thinking that it's the service endpoint that is the difference Or why did key uh, it's not useful with did come Maybe this isn't the best form for me to work these things out in my brain, but uh Anyways, I don't mind speaking out loud. So I we can I'll I'll chew on it for a little bit But uh, yeah, that's really good Yeah, I'm I'm in the same state uh lance. I think except I'm not quite as as as verbal What you're saying? Yeah, thanks Bruce All right, cool. Well, um, all right. So, uh, trust over IP. I think daniel presents this week Uh, I think he presents his proposal. Uh, there was a a lot of back and forth between daniel and um And sam let's get a link to that because that was nice and valuable as well Um That was Here Just need to Yeah, nice long, uh Discussion assuming I have the same I'm just going to scroll. I know that's annoying, but uh, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is the nice long discussion that I recommend. I'll post the link Here if anybody's following the Trust spanning protocol Stuff and uh, it's nice to learn from that and try to One of the things that I love about it is right, which it's this kind of first principles, uh debate of, you know Well, what is what are the first principles that we need to focus on for that layer and in a lot of ways that's helping me to kind of Separate the this the the incredible complexities that come with did come and carry and all these things and you know trying to uh It's helping me to to separate those into their constituent parts, so That's going to be that's going to be interesting I really appreciated the link to um to the to the video presentation That you put in last week That was Fascinating thing I thought so too and then were you did you uh, were you at the meeting on wednesday or have you listened to the the kind of follow on? No, I haven't if you have a link to that that would be super too Yeah, I'm not sure I attended the meeting so I hadn't looked for a link for it, but uh, yeah It's got to exist. So if I if I come across it, definitely Okay, good bang forth between sam Daniel and others Okay, and then Daniel presents his proposal this week at the wednesday TSP Something task force. Yeah, I think okay Good All right. So we did talk a bit about did come Okay cashing and those things. Uh, yeah, this did come v1. Um Um So sam did uh supply a link From that's just on did come org, which you know, again, that's one of those things where it's like, oh, why didn't I think to look there? Um, but here let me post it here Um Introductory, where is this thing? It was on did kind. Oh, I think it's on the guidebook Yeah Oh, here we go Yeah, now I know I couldn't find it because even now even though I know it existed It wasn't so easy for me to find so maybe that says something about the uh guidebook needing some updates But I will post that On here as well Okay, so that's a simple explanation of the benefits of upgrading from did come v1 to v2 Um, it's it's probably worth walking through that real quick. Uh, so let me pull that down here Okay, so, um So the version of did come in the aries community was version one and this uh spec describes the new version Uh, and the changes between them Um Well, how are we doing on time? Oh, we're almost out of time before instead of me going through this I mean we can but uh, is there anything else that we need to cover in the next six minutes or even less Because I have another meeting. I got to jump into Just just want to make sure we're not missing anything. I missed the um the aries, uh, wednesday working groups So I'm not sure how much they did on the aip3 it was a short meeting because, um Sam Sam Curran what had another uh had something come up and Stephen Curran Ah moderated the meeting Being unprepared. It was it was still an interesting meeting Yeah, a non creds, right because I think I sent that to ridolpho since he's done a bunch of non creds work Right, didn't steven talk a bunch about uh, non creds, especially revocation. Yeah, he's yeah, he took about yeah Yeah, just yeah the time frame from when asking for revocation to spend a lot of time on that, I think Which I'll admit I don't Really, I mean I've been listening kind of but I've always been working while they've been talking about the time frame stuff and So I don't pretend to understand it at all But uh someday Okay, so uh, yeah, then I assume there hasn't been much movement on that and we talked about the test harness stuff And possible tags for these things and then yeah essentially the tsp is kind of related to the grand unified theory Okay, anything else that Uh, we need to highlight or should highlight No, this is not Okay Good, so then let's quickly I think go through this Okay summary of changes formalization of methods used in v1 at jwm envelope ecdh1pu standardized form of auth crypt I'm trying to get decent at understanding the Nuance between some of these crypto things um But yeah, if anybody wants to say anything in terms of of these two things, I mean, we know that there's uh Uh, there was a change in the aries, uh envelope, um A spec specification, uh, so I think there's two separate rfcs for the different envelopes Uh Practical changes All right, did exchange is not needed anymore. We've seen lots of talk about this Uh, you know as like hakan and others are trying to get Uh implementations going This is kind of a big deal because they have designed in, you know, some form of connection Uh that requires did exchange and It doesn't work that way in v2 anymore. I think each message essentially Um Can stand on its own, but I don't know much more than that. Anybody want to see anything about that? I mean like if your next change did like brodo said Now it's easier. You just got to like create this new message with like the sign from with the from prior and That's how like you do your did exchange So it's kind of like built in the spec Like the ability to rotate this Okay, I hadn't I hadn't connected that that's um, how you start as well as how you rotate So maybe that's extra useful Yeah, like an idea workflow like you would like create like an outbound with a did peer And then you would switch to a data like you like feel like more secure towards right like that's kind of what we're talking earlier Yeah, it's like it didn't matter. It's more secure to do like your actual like issuance or whatever Yeah, okay cool Anyways, maybe maybe it's would be good to uh, I meant to read through this and I haven't so maybe it'd be good to read through it And we can talk about it. Um next week It sounds like a lot of it is uh Or it looks like a lot of it's related to things that we've touched on But maybe we could dive a little deeper so we can uh I don't know grow at the open wallet foundation like in the presentation that At least sam share with me like he's gonna talk a little bit about like exactly this difference between the company one and b2 so great Talk to them on on that meeting Okay, there was one other thing that I wanted to share um that maybe we can talk about I meant for us to get to it today, but That's okay uh, so in this Uh, I'll just pull it down here and just show it to everybody and I'll post the link so that people can read up on it uh I came across this comparison Of dwn versus, you know, uh did come uh verse carry and again. This is all being prompted I think by the trust banning Uh protocol talk, so I think it's all good But this felt like a very awkward comparison to me And maybe that's just how it's supposed to be because there's only uh, you know A certain amount of overlap between these But uh, all that to say if anyone's interested in seeing something, you know reading through that I'll post that there and maybe that's something that we can talk about Um Next week would would you guys like to discuss that next week? Sure Okay Do we think it's worthwhile And uh did come Okay Roto do you think that that's worth bringing up in the uh meeting this uh, the the user group meeting this uh afternoon Not to put you on the spot. It's okay if Yeah, sure Okay Which one is it? It's the this hack md where they talk about dwn versus did come versus carry I think Yeah, yeah Yeah, I don't know how much they've discussed the uh, the tsp, but uh, yeah, there's a lot of question marks on that Okay. Yeah. Yeah fair enough Okay, we're all learning we're on a journey here. Okay great to have everybody. Thank you for coming and uh, yeah We'll meet again next week and you know, maybe I'll see you in the other meetings today Thank you. Okay. Bye