 The setting ablaze of a bus rapid-chancit BRT vehicle in Ogu Dwarlong, the old shocky expressway in Lagos, last Wednesday was a sad reminder of the evil effects of the takeover of Lagos State by touts and street urchins who take the laws into their hands at every opportunity. Now, according to a statement by the Director of Public Affairs and Enlightenment Department of the Lagos State Traffic Management Agency, or authority last month, a day by your Taufiq, hoodlums in the area set ablaze the bus belonging to the Lagos State bus. Recall that also, one of the fallouts of the October 2020 ensarse protest was the takeover of Lagos State by touts and hoodlums who blocked highways to extort commercial vehicles, heavy-duty trucks and other road users hiding under the cover of the ensarse protest. These hoodlums had set ablaze 80 BRT buses in Ogu Dwarlong and Odu Bergar areas of Lagos State, joining us to discuss the mainness of Thaigri and Taps in Lagos, is Dheji Awabide. He's a legal practitioner. Thank you so much, Dheji, for joining us. Good evening. Good evening, Maryam. Thank you for having me. Great. Dheji, as a lawyer and also a legosian, obviously, it's not news that Lagos has a thug-stroke-tout problem. I mean, we've seen its display itself every single day during elections, during protests, and even on a normal day you just hear that some touts were fighting in one place or the other. But the one that's more of a problem is how these people continually extort from unknown, you know, rather normal citizens, passers-by. Some of them would claim that they are working at the behest of a certain government agency or paristata and their tax collectors as opposed to the normal people who are expected to come and collect taxes. Let's start from there. Dheji Awabide Lagosian is facing some trauma because of touts in Lagos. Have you experienced it, and why do you think that this has grown over time? Thank you for the question. Are they related to Thogre in Lagos? I'm sure it's not new to anybody who's lived in Lagos who's had any business doing Lagos, that these thugs are a part and parcel of the two-tile package of Lagos. And regrettably, they've done more harm than good to the economic well-being of the states and also to the citizens of the country who are resident in the states and also to Lagosians. I've also had my own personal encounters with them. Sometimes I've had a running with them twice. The first time I was coming back from port on the island, heading to my chambers on the mainland, and then I had a flat tire somewhere on the Adeculi descent, heading into Yaba, Alagumeji area. And then, from nowhere, six different guys appeared from that bridge. When you pass through the bridge, you don't see anybody. So within a minute, I was accosted by six different guys who, yes, tried to render assistance, but for a fee. Of course, I was lucky that it happened in the afternoon, so I wasn't really scared for my safety. I knew that even if push comes to show, I would probably disappear from the scene. But there are several instances where people are just accosted by these thugs in every corner of the states. I mean, no part of Lagos is immune from this menace of Thogre. And I think that it has thrived because the government has enabled it. And I think if we're going to be brutally honest with ourselves, Thogre in Lagos has thrived because there's an ecosystem that is funded and is supported by the government. And, you know, you ask me why. You have to come in there briefly. What do you mean by it's supported and funded by government? You're saying that government gives monies to these people who are a threat in quotes to society. So what I'm saying is that the environment for them to try is provided for by the government. How do I mean? So if you go around Lagos, you'll find a lot of these polls, of course some of them will say that they belong to the ANWU or what you now know as the Lagos State Parks and Garages and they're collecting revenue or collecting funds for the government. But aside from that, that platform that has been given to them by the government is also what has enabled them to try. The funds that it gets from all of these things that they do, of course some part of that fund will go to the government who also end up in government coffers. So when I say government gives a platform for them to try or support the ecosystem, that's what I mean. Now apart from that economic angle to the entire debate, there's also the political angle. Let me take a step back. You know that if you go to every major jump, every major bus stop in Lagos, you would find who are existing with these talks, policemen and last man officials. Right? Now you also find that most of those policemen and last man officials do not even have a say. I must even control these talks. So in other words, they allow these talks free reign at every opportunity. Can you really blame these law enforcement agents who allow these talks free reign? You can't because their safety at a particular judgment area is not guaranteed unless those talks give approval or give them some form of protection. So you see that there's some form of systemic arrangement between the law enforcement officers, either at the federal level as you have by the police that are standing at those points, at the state level as you have with last man officials, and then by those talks who by themselves are also there along with their friends and their cronies. Now another thing you also notice in Lagos is that there are several spots in Lagos where you have one way signs. Now these one way signs are not particularly very obvious. And even where they are obvious, you find some people who are standing in one corner hiding behind a particular signpost or hiding somewhere under a canopy ready to operate anybody who flots the law. Now the job of arresting offenders is the job that is reserved for the police. It's not a job that is reserved for talks and talks, but if you encounter these people, they will tell you that they work for the local government or their collection of money for the local government. And if you go a step further, by engaging them and calling them to the local government, you will find that they also have a space within the local government system that enables them access into that place. And they even give you tickets. I had a case in court against one local government of a very similar scenario where you have people who are not even stuck with the local government, accosting road users and obtaining them, exerting them on funds. Now, all of these instances have tried because the government has enabled them. The government is not unaware, mind you, they're not unaware of these events or these people. They know where they are, they know who they are. But the other reason I was getting out is that the government realizes or the politicians realize that in holding on to power, they require some level of individuals who can display some level of dogry. And of course they won't send their children to display this dogry. Neither would they send you or send myself or anybody else who is gayfully employed. So they need these people who they have groomed in this ecosystem to go ahead and do these jobs for them. So when I say they are funded and they are sustained by the government, this is what I mean, because they cannot try. If the local government decides today that there will no longer be dogry in Lagos, that will not have unemployed youths, unemployed people roaming the streets of Lagos at every junction accosting road users, vanishing vehicles and obtaining road users, you will not see them in Lagos anymore. Let's talk about the role of people, because I mean if you live in Lagos, you pay your taxes obviously in Lagos and so that means you have a right. But let's just do a little flashback to what happened during the elections. We saw a lot of videos and pictures and some of us even experienced it in real time, how Thogs prevented some people who were non-indigins from voting on election day. We saw how some of them were literally at polling units telling people what parties to vote for. We saw them destroying ballot boxes. We saw them beating up people at polling units. And you said something about the fact that politicians have discovered that the only way they can hold on to power is to keep these so-called touts happy. And if you look at statistics from what I've done in my research, I've realized that these guys are growing astronomically and most of them street urchins empowered day by day. I've had a guest in the studio who said that they're becoming some sort of sleeper cell and they all have responsibilities given to them and targets. But then my question is to you and every other person who lives in Lagos who knows what is right or who has seen these people in action. Why are we quiet about this issue and why is this not one way or the other become a front-burdant issue every single day of our lives? Well, thank you for the question. I think the number one reason why a lot of negotiations are not particularly going all out to confront the government is because they've realized that it's very difficult to wage a war against the government and win. How do you mean wage a war against the government and win? The government is just a percentage of us and then we're the people who they are supposedly serving. So what do you mean by that? The government controls almost every major institution. For instance in Lagos, you have the judiciary, you have the police, you have every other agency of government. Now if you decide to go against, say you apprehend one of those towns and you take them to the police station because as a private citizen you have the powers to also arrest an individual if you witness the commission of your crime. And you then decide to apprehend one of them and take them to the police station. What are the chances that that individual you've arrested will not be out of the station before the close of day? What are the chances that the DPU will not be called by some higher person asking that DPU to release the individual? Now, so what happens to you? What's the safety measure that's in place for you to put yourself, your life on the line for everybody else's sanity and safety? So if I understand you, you're saying the arts are stacked against us and we're all just going to fall our arms because we believe that the executive controls everything and then the voice of the common man cannot be heard. What's that? What's that? I mean, what's the fate of the average devotion then? The voice of the common man can't be heard and as indeed has been heard. But what do you find? You find suppression. You find suppression at every turn. So the opportunity to change the government usually avails the citizens at every election cycle. And when you have, so what did you have the last election cycle? The people spoke against the candidates of the ruling party in Lagos and the candidate lost the election. So indeed the common people have also lent their voice to show that they're satisfaction with the government. So, but again, you know, that's lending your voice to the ballot boxes wanting having the overall impetus and mechanism to achieve the objective of replacing the entire government is another thing entirely. And that's what you find with the largest society of Nigeria, that even where you find people who are willing to go the extra mile, who are willing to fight their neighbors, willing to stick out their neck for a better government, a better society, you always find these roadblocks that have been deliberately put in place by these people who want to retain and hold on to power. So it's not as if we don't know that it's wrong, but how do you effect that change? You can do that. You can effect that unless you have political power. That political power does not lie with the common man. It lies with the few people who are controlling it. Who gave these people this political power that you make reference to? Because again, I wonder how much information do we have in terms of how a democracy works? Because, you know, it's very easy for us to justice in our responsibilities as citizens, you know, and say, oh, well, they have everything, they have the army, they have the police justice, you said. And so what can we do? Just, you know, just, you know, watch them. But this thing is growing. It's becoming a big problem. And it's not going to be at the dust depths of just one person, whether the guy who lives on the mainland or on the island is going to spread. And how long are we going to keep thinking this way as opposed to looking at ways that we can democratically get the government to see our side of things? OK. Well, thank you for the question. Now, when you look at it from the perspective of trying to allow the government to see this side that we are all saying, I made the point earlier that it is not as if the government is not aware of what's going on. So, I mean, what they have, what you have going on is that the government is playing the ostrich, right? So, the picture that you flashed on the screen, the end source protest of a guy who came to disrupt the peaceful rally, holding the cutlass, right? That guy has not been found till today. People have, NGOs have used the pictures. Is that not a failure on the part of our law enforcement and the judiciary? Because I mean, what have we made of all of that? So, this picture is everywhere. So, are you telling me that the government does not know who this guy is? Of course they do. But of course it was, it didn't just come to that rally to disrupt the rally by himself. It was an engineer to do so, right? So, that's what I say. I mean, when I say that it is, it is an ecosystem that is, it is very organized and supported actively by the government. That's what I mean. Because you can't tell me that in almost two years of the end source protest, that we've not been able to locate this guy. And people have learned their voices through it. Celebrities have done so, media houses have done so, and up till now, we've not found this person. So, that's what I mean by the people being helpless in this situation. The only way we can do that, we can get control of political power is by peaceful elections. Now, the question is, can we have peaceful elections? Well, that's a big question that we might have to answer the whole of this year. We'll have to think about it. And Tinka, maybe in the whole of, I mean, this first tenor after May 29. But did you have to go because our time is up. Didja Wobiyide is a legal practitioner and always a pleasure to have you here on Plus Politics. Unfortunately, today's conversation does not give us a glimmer of hope in the direction that we were hoping. But thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. All right. And that's the show tonight everyone. Thank you for being part of the conversation. If you want to catch up on all of our shows previously, you can go to our YouTube, which is Plus TV Africa and Plus Africa Lifestyle. Don't forget to subscribe and follow us on all our social media handles. Be part of all our conversations. I'll be back tomorrow talking for development. I'm Mary Annacon. Do you have a good evening?