 I'm waiting for the day somebody wants to debate me live and I'm Let me rephrase that because their folks are gonna be like you're being prideful Hate talking to Christmas sometime because the moment you say aye, brother you've been prideful Okay, and look forward to let me spiritualize this I look forward to the day that I could have a Friendly debate on can a Christian have a demon because I am thoroughly doctrinally prepared to have that conversation That's you on tape Come on, please you sure about that begone Welcome everybody to the bcv channel. I am your host pass the seco woods Please do the following before we get started. 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Thank you so so much also bcv information bcv merchandise You can also click the link below and purchase merchandise there as well too, so Let's get into this video As you heard at the beginning of this video mr. Alexander Pagani That clip was dated in 2020 So three years later, maybe some things may have changed, but hey I was hoping and praying and believing that the opportunity to have a conversation and dialogue With mr. Pagani regarding the subject of whether or not christians can be demon possessed or in his term he says demonized well There is no difference between demon possession And demonization in fact, let me just go right ahead and just pull up the definition because words matter and definitions matter too The definition for demonized means number one to turn into as or as if into a demon Number one to turn into or as if into a demon number two to possess by or as if by a demon three To represent as evil or diabolic So I believe as christians christians cannot be demon possessed. We cannot be demonized We can be oppressed. That means the enemy His imps can mess with us. That's different, but demon possession No, the bible does not teach that the bible does not affirm such such teaching or doctrine, but That is what mr. Pagani Stated he wanted to make sure that I represented him accurately if I were to do A video In response to his statement I've welcomed him to come on and for us to have a dialogue and I still do that now And I know you're going to watch this video because I told you also Mr. Pagani that I was going to make a response and I would definitely tag you Once this video has been produced and uploaded and presented on my channel but That is the question. Can a christian be demon possessed or demonized emphatically no The bible says greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world First down for four the bible says in Ephesians chapter one We've been sealed with the holy spirit until the day of redemption in Ephesians chapter one verse 13 So we have the spirit of god residing in us never leaving us never departing from us. We are under the New covenant. We're not under the old covenant where we have to worry about the spirit leaving As david did in psalm 51 So we have the indwelling presence and indwelling power of the holy spirit whereby we are able to do what the lord commands us to do And only by his spirit, but again, I believe we should be able to have conversations like this With those who we may differ and disagree with because I believe it helps the body of christ grow I believe it helps the body christ see how people can have different opinions But be respectful in our dialogue And even as I am doing this video I was supposed to have been on jessie lee peterson's channel on Tomorrow to discuss and have dialogue and maybe even a little bit of a debate Regarding his views or questions that he may ask me, but that that interview has been canceled. Um, hopefully it will be Uh, continue that a later date as they as they promise, but we'll we'll see and I'll keep you posted with that but anyway If you're just joining this video just tune in Um, mr. Begani had made a statement regarding that he would love to have a live debate Regarding can christians be uh demon possessed or not? And so if you didn't hear that let's play it again for those who may just join this I'm waiting for the day somebody wants to debate me live and I'm Let me rephrase that because their folks are going to be like you're being prideful I hate talking to christians sometimes the moment you say I brother you've been prideful Okay, I look forward to let me spiritualize this I look forward to the day that I could have A friendly debate on can a christian have a demon? Because I am thoroughly doctorally prepared to have that conversation That's you story doctorally prepared to have the conversation I am thoroughly doctorally prepared to have a conversation with him And among other topics that I believe We should be able to have but that was not all that you said Alex you did say something else later in the video I really wish that I could find that video and if you have that video Alex I would love to Secure a copy of it. I I was able to secure the audio portion of it But for some reason I didn't find it on your channel anymore I'm not sure if you took it down as you had supposedly recanted Your statement and your position but For the sake of clarity and understanding because I wouldn't be anybody to think that I'm Twisting your words or taking anything that you've said out of context That's why I'm playing the audio portion of what you said making sure that people know it is exactly you so Pardon the the the the mild distortion or the low quality of this particular audio but I was not able to Transfer it over to a video file For some some unknown reason But that was not the only thing that you said though Alex in this in this so-called, you know challenge But you have you actually made an appeal which I do agree with and I do affirm with you 100 percent More conversations like this need to be had on large platforms Not just with Uh Markets But with other ideologies within the kingdom That are being perpetuated and one is deliverance You know so tonight is this everyone is subscribers Which means the one who has a lot of people thinking about I don't want to promote this other delivered from that You know a more dialogue with the one that has 50 000 views. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give him or her You know, we need to get delivered from that because the bible says that him that he Have no problem to talk with the person of low degree. Scripture actually actually They actually actually say this You know and I think we need to And listen Pagani, I agree with you 100 percent Your your sentiments are the same as mine and in your reference actually to Roman chapter 12 verse 16, which I will just put on the screen is spot on It says clearly be of the same mind toward one another Do not be hearty in mind, but associate with the lowly do not be wise in your own estimation to king james says Be of the same mind one toward another mind not high things. In other words, don't be arrogant Don't be don't because you get more more subscribers and more followers and you know And whatnot that that makes you better than someone else. He says mind not high things but condescending come down The condescending to men of lower state do not be wise in your own conceits. Don't don't Puff up yourself. Don't believe your own press We can say paul is trying to say so sabra. I agree with you 100 percent I agree with you 100 percent My question is is is why wouldn't you want to have A conversation in a dialogue with a with a person like myself? Why would you not want to have You know discussions like this? I think it is I think it would be helpful. I think it'd be more than helpful I think it'd be beneficial to the body christ to have dialogue and have conversation And really what prompted me to make this video was me watching you on jessie lee peterson's channel Uh, I think maybe two weeks ago From from the time of this this production of this video You you were on jessie lee peterson's Channel and he was asking you questions and and and I mentioned to you in the in the comments on my channel One of the things that grieved me was your lack of response to clear softball Alley you questions The question that he that he asked you that really got my goat was Which is worse? The civil rights movement or abortion, which is worse Uh, I think he I think he said black lives matter or abortion, but but nonetheless he he he added abortion To those last two questions near the end of your interview with him And you said no comment But ironically you he asked you is abortion Uh murder and you said yes, so it was abortion wrong and you said yes So for you to refuse to answer the the other two questions it really it really bothered me It really bothered me and it really, uh made me look at you Uh, rather suspecting me if I can use that term This is not a disc, but I'm just being in real with you like I told you in the comments And so what what I said to you was this in the comments right here I said I'm going to keep it 100 with you, bro There were some things that you said in the interview with jessie lee peterson That greatly concerned grieve and angered me that I believe instead of cowering under pressure You should have courageously and clearly communicated a christian position Regarding the murder of the unborn versus not giving a comment, which is in which in fact is to give a comment Some of the things you said and answered I agreed with But for the most part it seemed to me that you're being on jessie lee peterson's podcast Wasn't about representing and promoting god's kingdom, but promoting yourself. However, to be fair I did a reaction video comparing your definition of regeneration versus corey minors definition of your generation and I must admit I was shocked Your response to jessie lee peterson was 100 was 100 spot on therefore I have to give you your propers on that one salute I publicly explain Why I agreed with your position and publicly disagreed with the chorus position live yesterday at the time of that video Live yesterday on my channel and presented exegetical evidence in doing so I'm not one to play favorites in the kingdom I want to call balls balls and strikes strikes Regardless who's up to that Nothing more nothing less Hopefully you'll hear the spirit and intent behind my words and be willing to have a dialogue That's what I had meant and since sent to you Alex that day in response to I believe it was How should you marry an older woman and that was one of the questions that jessie lee peterson Had asked about how old is your wife and of course his view on marriage and marry older women Is up in there, but anyway, and so later that day I believe or that evening you responded and said thanks for the agreement with me on the salvation through regeneration I didn't know you did that That was my honest answer when asked about how to get saved I'm a genuine brother in the faith delivered unto the saints and and and adhered to fundamental doctrine Outline in scriptures We might differ on the topic of deliverance, but I didn't know such secondary topics placed me in the heretic or the heretic category Maybe in the error category, but I'm definitely not a heretic Well, again, that's that's that will be up for debate And dialogue because I believe the people that you run with the people that make false prophecies that you call brothers Like isaac salivar and and and others You call these people brothers. I think you may even call marcus rogers a brother, but but but for a fact you call isaac salivar a brother and You defend isaac salivar and you've banned or blocked Excuse me you've blocked cori minor because you said that you don't like people to attack your friends. Well I understand that and you know what I I appreciate you are you're that type of you'll type of loyal cat That would defend your your friends That's that's to be commended that that is to be commended however, uh, we don't we don't affirm or Stand with things that the bible doesn't teach when a person gives a quote unquote prophecy And it doesn't come to pass. God says that they are a false prophet No different than marcus rogers giving a false prophecy even if I would give one if it doesn't come to pass And it's not true. God says I'm a false prophet. There's no true prophets in scripture that gives false prophecies and yet they're still prophets of God, but That's your position and I don't really follow your ministry too much I only I've only known about your ministry through cori minors. However um What the things that you believe when it comes to Christians being demonized And and I would just ask this question to you, uh Alex Because you said you don't want to come on and I'll read the statement for those for others to review it and see it as well, but You you believe in deliverance ministries What would a christian need to be delivered from and why would god need you or me To deliver someone or to lay hands on someone To deliver I mean if if I'm a christian Then it would presuppose that the Holy Spirit of God is in me. Therefore. Where do we find in the new testament? the early church where Christians are being delivered from demonization Really demon possession, uh Alex because again demonization means demon possession That's why I put the definition on the screen But for your for your definition for your understanding to make sure I'm not misrepresenting you Why would a christian need to be delivered delivered from what and by whom what do we find that in scripture? So yes, we would have a difference of view on that But the bottom line is where in the scriptures do we find the basis and the authority? By which we are to derive our doctrine and to apply it in our lives and encourage others and to buy their christ to apply it In their lives as well too, but let's continue with your statement You said we might differ on the on the topic of deliverance But I didn't know such secondary topics placed me in their in the heritage category Maybe in the error category, but I'm definitely not a heritage But thanks for the public agreement. I truly honor you for that And you asked me to send the link and I did you say as far as the Jesse Lee Peterson interview I honestly didn't know deeply who he was with the exception of a few interviews where people walked off the show I told my staff that I was pre-recording on a certain day on that day He many texted me to be careful because he loves to ask trick questions Well, I didn't see any of the trick questions being the trick question be there Yes or no, I mean you refuse to answer simple questions like abortion Which again that bothered me and I'm pretty sure it bothered a lot of christians who know Especially as a black man And you being a person of color as well too Um, I guess with Puerto Rican. I think you said Puerto Rican. I want to miss, you know, misrepresent your ethnicity But you said that you Puerto Rican But if you know anything about abortion and I'm pretty sure you do That abortion affects the black community in greater and disproportionate rates than our other ethnic counterparts 37 percent Of abortions among black people are made in this country Close to 20 million black babies alex Have been murdered and that's just the ones that we have that we are counting on record Since 1973 thank god that a roby way that's been overturned but nonetheless People are still murdering their babies and so for you being a minister quote-unquote of the gospel being a representative of of the gospel A brother in christ you would we would I would think being an ambassador you would represent our king better than you did Regarding that subject and you failed miserably in doing that but Let me continue You said truthfully I thought he invited me to discuss our upcoming movie As he also asked to interview my fellow demon slayers as well demon slayers. How do you slay a demon? alex I mean again So I I'm I'm looking for in scripture for you to show me in scripture. Where do we find demons being slayed by professing christians In fact what I find in scripture is that we're we're not to slay them We are to resist them resist the devil the bible says james says and he will flee from you He didn't say rebuke them He didn't say bind them. He didn't say cast them. He didn't say any of that You said resist the devil and he will flee and resist simply means in the greek to stand one's ground to stand One's position. It doesn't mean you talk to him. It doesn't mean you have any dialogue with them We don't see that anywhere in scripture He says resist the devil not rebuke those are two different words And the bible says he will flee from you So again, I'm I really believe if you would would be willing to have these conversations as you said in your in the audio That we ought to have these kinds of mars heel conversations How is it that the world can have conversations with us, but we can't converse with each other Why is it that you have you have that you would rather have echo chamber conversations with people who already agree with you You know, even with alan par Alan par doesn't want to have a conversation with me brujan doesn't want to have a conversation with me He had one but after he got dealt with in his position Pretty much. I guess I'm marked And anyone and any others like me who want to have conversations with people like yourself You guys refuse to do that But you made a public rebuke and I totally agree alex That some of you to have these bigger channels You make me wonder It's because you you are You are being high in your own estimation instead of and instead of Associating with the lowly instead of associated with those who have less followers less subscribers than yourself Is that the reason why I I just I just need to know because it's a question worth answering And I hope you would answer these questions I would prefer us to have a face-to-face conversation That the body of Christ can see two men Who may differ to have a respectful dialogue Look bruh if you can converse with jessie lee peterson Who's not a christian by any stress of the imagination and I would hope that you would know that Because he he denied core essential christian doctrines where he had you on his platform So if you're eager and willing to go to people who are not Of the light, but you profess to be of the light. Why is it that you don't want to have conversations with people like me? I have yet to see people like you ruslan and others You know isiah salivar and and and all these other guys Have conversations with people across the aisle you did a video Basically dunking and dissing quote-unquote reformers and quote-unquote calvinists And so this reform quote-unquote calvinists would love to have a conversation and dialogue with you alex And we could have it on your channel on my we can do it simultaneously But I believe a conversation is warranted. I believe a conversation and dialogue is necessary The bible says that there must be heresies and divisions and factions among you first Corinthians chapter 11 verse 19 That these things must take place these things must happen so that those who are approved May be made manifest may be made known among you Why you guys don't want to have conversations is be is beyond me other than the fact Maybe you're not believing what you've said about your own review. I don't know But let's continue with your comment You said truthfully, I thought he invited me to discuss an upcoming movie as he also asked to interview my fellow demon slayers as well But when I saw the interview turned into a different direction In my head when he asked various questions was entrapment So all that kept coming to me was answer not a fool according to his folly Let's see be wise in his own eyes. I chose to follow that verse and say no comment Now the only thing is though though Alexa, I Understand what you what you're saying and the point of what you're saying But he asked that question more than once he asked it twice And in the in the sense and in the context when it deals with morality In the sense and in the context when it deals with life and death like babies Verse five of proverbs 26 says answer a fool according to his folly lest he be wise in his own eyes So so the first stem Answer not a fool It's actually asking not a fool lest you be like him Answer not answer fool according to his folly. Let's see be wise in his own eyes as verse five But verse four says don't answer don't answer fool lest you be like a fool But then there are times when you answer fool like a a jester lee peterson Let's see be wise in his own eyes So when you did not answer that question you sent a message to the entire world who may have watched that video That christians don't have a position professing christians don't have a position regarding abortion regarding the murder and massacre of the unborn That was not the time not to answer That was a time to answer and answer authoritatively and answer biblically Based on the word of god and you failed to do that But you continue on and said it seemed like he was trying to entrap me in my words. Yeah, he probably was Again, I thought the interview was concerning the movie not to discuss the faith doctrine or ministry as far as our as far as Dialogue with you now It will be fruitless as my views concerning deliverance will never change as I used to preach against it For many years in my early days straight out of bible seminary. I eventually embraced it To then reject it again Makes no sense I'm ready to stand before god give an account for the ministry of deliverance And I will never turn anyone away who genuinely is seeking my help in this regards I've said this publicly on video for years since I've been in ministry since 1995 May god continue to bless your ministry as you seek to be a good berean May your channel continue to be a light and challenge falsehood on these social media streets on my end I call you a brother in the faith. I'm okay with you not thinking the same about me When we get to heaven I look forward to arguing about all these secondary topics for all eternity Stay blessed. Well, it won't be any arguments in heaven. You already know that But again Why the change Why the shift why the pivot that that that is what I'm always concerned with because again I don't care for echo chamber conversations There's no I mean they it has its place But if I'm only going to invite people on my channel who always agree with me Then when does the iron sharpening iron take place when when do we apply Proverbs 27 17 when when does when does as iron sharpens iron? So one man sharpens another when does that take place if we if we refuse to go across the aisle and address And and to respond and to question and to have dialogue with each other that we may disagree with but Later that later this later today You and I had an instagram conversation and You all can go to his instagram page on amazing church nyc. I'll go ahead and and share the screen here He's basically premiering his uh his movie And The question that I had asked him was regarding, you know, christians being demon possessed He said that's not what he holds to he says that that is heresy and anyone that holds to that is uh Is a heretic and they need to repent or they're gonna go to hell. Okay, but again, we just established the point That the definition of demonized means to be possessed or as if by a demon so demon possession and I'll just put it up here on the screen What is demon possession? Let's see if it's the same thing Demon possession definition Demon possession occurs when one or more evil spirits enter into a living entity example human and control in varying degrees They're mental and physical faculties to such a degree that the individuals Are controlled it is controlled are controlled Uh in whole or in part by the demon. So what really is the difference answer? There is no difference And you said in in the in the uh comments on ig That maybe you know, we we have a difference of definition. No definitions matter I mean the definition is the definition and I had encouraged you to amend yours because your understanding of demonization that's foreign To what the word actually means a christian cannot be demon possessed and god has not commanded christians in the new Testament to cast our devils He hasn't show me in scripture where he has commanded the church to cast our devils After ax and please don't use ax because ax is not The standard by which we derive doctrine we can gleaned from it, but it is a descriptive historical book but anyway You have responded to my comment and you all can look at it. You said I have publicly said During my during the pandemic on my live videos that I have recanted all of my previous statements to open dialogues As I am personally tired and don't have the energy anymore dialogue drains me So since I said it publicly I recanted publicly Corey will probably be my last open convo until christ comes I might be open to a convo with you years from now. You seem like a cool brother, but don't hold me to that You have my permission to say I reneged as I already publicly did publicly did that but it makes great content for your channel see again So remember to remember the the statement that you made Alex It's not about it's not about building up my channel I want my channel to be built up because of the truth that i'm presenting because it's of its substance Not because of sensationalization and because i'm just trying to get likes and follows that is never in my heart never been my intention You said on my end i'll continue to preach the gospel and help the captives be set free I'm logging off my brother in christ. I think I gave you enough content for your Pagani folder this morning So again, you know, you you make the comments you make the statements And you know, I've already extended the opportunity for us to converse But you seem not to want to do that And and it seems to be the attitude and mentality Of a lot of you guys who hold to this type of teaching this type of aberrant view of the of the of the holy spirit But you cannot say for the record Alex you cannot say you cannot fix your mouth going forward that people do not want to have a conversation with you because this people does I've reached out to you. I've reached out to others So what is what is there? I mean, what else are we to conclude? I mean If you're going to continue to keep saying the things that you say and then now you're calling yourself an apostle Which makes me also ask you this other question. Where do we find? apostles the continuation of apostles after the first century after The original With paul also being the exception and i'm talking about the ones who have seen our risen lord You know the ax chapter 1 verse 19 and 22 and following The criteria for an apostle the bible says that they have must have seen the risen lord after His crucifixion he they must have seen enough have been with him and witnessed his resurrection And paul is an exception because christ appeared to him personally We find that and acts and we also find that in galatians So again, where's the biblical precedent? For you to claim to be an apostle The criteria and the qualifications cannot be Changed if god himself has required it and stipulated it no different than for pastors pastors are for men They're not for women Doesn't matter what the society says. What is the word of god say? So again I'm extending this opportunity to you. I know you said you're not going to take it, but I want to make this public I'm extending an opportunity. I'm extending the a la brands to alexander pagani and to anyone else who believes that christians can be demonized Demon possessed alex because that's exactly what it means Show me how i'm mistaking your words and misrepresenting your words and then I'll publicly recant and repent, but I'm just stating your mate just making your statement that you said and Again, you can go to the instagram page And you can see where he has made the uh the comment and and and tried to Clarify his his uh his position because again The last thing I want to do is Change a person's uh words around and flip people's words around He makes this last comment right here You're on the right you see it What I did was I asked him a question I said correct me if i'm wrong But wasn't that the contention of debate you and cori minor had when he invited you on his channel When you affirmed that christians can be demon possessed and cori disagreed with you You said no, I did not please go back and watch the interview closely And you will see that I vehemently opposed that idea and stated that christian can be demonized In an area not submitted to the holy spirit by willful sin according to Ephesians 4 27 Neither get placed at the devil and I and I and I and I said to you Neither get placed at the devil does not equate nor does it conflate nor does it imply demon possession or demonization But you said again anyone teaching a christian can be possessed by the devil Is a false teacher heritage occurs and on their way to hell I said cori I didn't say cori did not disagree with me concerning the above mentioned as my interview with him Was not a debate for him to disagree on anything theological I agreed to get on his podcast to discuss deliverance methods Only any other discussion would be fruitless as I'm never going to change my mind on deliverance I even gave cori permission to slaughter my videos and help me accountable that I wouldn't respond No, no do any anti cori videos. I kept my word on that You said stay blessed again You can archive this convo and I sincerely hope you do a video on it and let it be known that I said a christian cannot be demon possessed Stay blessed and may God expand your channel. But again, I say please define a christian being demonized Giving place to the devil isn't being demonized Your definition is not accurate. You may want to rephrase and or amend your position And he said maybe the terms need to be defined a little better as as all schools of thought can define their worldviews better But at the moment, all I care about is my name being taken off that christian can be demon possessed list All I'm asking is that church folks be fair not saying that you're not and their assessment of us Hold us accountable to the ministry of deliverance itself. Not in something. We're not saying So ladies and gentlemen, I read that thread pretty much in this entirety and in this context. You tell me am I mistaking uh, alexander pagani's words and his understanding and definition of demonization and demon possession Let me know what you think in the comments Is demonization and demon possession the same thing? Or Does alex put pagani have a point that demonization and demon possession are not the same things and I need to Retract my statement to him and offer a clear apology to him for misrepresenting him But if it is the same then do you believe and do you think that alex pagani Definitely needs to come back and make his statement clear regarding those definitions that they're both one in the same That they're not separate things in and of itself. So Again, let me know what you think in the comments below ladies and gentlemen brothers and sisters. I do appreciate that Uh, again, if you like this video, please share it. Please subscribe to the channel. Love life and marriage with the woods Uh marriage channel, please support that channel as well. Again, I'd like to support the ministry You can do so by the donation link information below at the bottom of this video if you'd like to become a life Builder you can do that as well And you can support the ministry and the donation links are below at the bottom of this Channel, I said body lifer body lifer. Yeah, be a body lifer. So not a body builder But you can do that too as well. It builds a body. But anyway, that's my time. I thank you all so much for yours Again, let me know what you think in the comments below Trying to see something and oh by the way Alex remember That's you