 Good morning and welcome for the third and last day of Fresh Web Radio Live. We are in Paris, it is 10 past 10 local time, Friday, 22nd of September and you are listening to the live stream of fresh, fresh, the international event for the development of contemporary circus and outdoor arts. Outdoor, yes, we are almost outdoor today. Under the rainy sky of Paris, we are at La Pelouse Royie, which is located in the eastern part of Paris, still in Paris, but close to the Bois de Vincennes, where you might know there is a new zoo that was renovated a few years ago, a very beautiful place. But here we are also under a very beautiful top, top blue circus, a big top, the top of the village de cirque where there is a festival, circus festival actually these days until Sunday. My name is Olavinha, I'm a French journalist and be your guide on this exclusive web radio station streaming live in this third morning session of Fresh for you to be able to listen to it all around the world and to make it possible with me, Clément from Making Wave Association and to stream it all around the world. We have the help of all around. Today on live you will be able to follow, to the discussion, morning talks, artistic talk, round table and additional small interview. We realize with the partners of Fresh, they are coming to join us, we are in a small angle, we find a place to be with you and to make you able to listen to what is going on today. You can hear the crowd coming in this kind of noisy place, each place as you can hear as a specific sound. We were first in La Villette, in the theater, yesterday we were to a wooden top place and today we are in a kind of very light tissue, kind of plastic classical circus place, which is maybe let's say 30 meters diameter. Today, while the people are entering into the place, I want to tell you a little bit about the schedule and the program we will listen to very soon. The topic, as you know, it's always different every day, the first day it was safe, yesterday it, no sorry, making a mistake, the first day it was about care, to care, yesterday it was about safe and today a very interesting topic, sustainability and it will start so with a keynote, keynote made by Eric Le Noir with a landscape designer, he will talk about sustainability and he will join us at the radio place to talk a little bit more about it. Then after this first intervention, you will have an artistic talk led by two artists that will, we don't really know what they will say but we are very surprised, it is Maria Baranos, Kate Lieberman and Andrea Salustri. After this artistic talk I'll be happy to have on the radio an artist that will talk about a new place, a new circus place here in Paris, it's called Rue Wat and we will listen to the way he did already different performance in this new urban place in Paris and then it will finish with a big round table involving five panelists, always, always about this topic of sustainability and we might leave each other after all this, it will be around one o'clock and as you know you can follow us on Circo Strada.org, Circo Strada, the network of contemporary circus and outdoor art, it's more than 300 members, more than 40 countries here in Paris, we are almost 300 people talking, gathering, going to see performances in the afternoon, discovering places in Paris and around Paris. You know, you will be able also to follow to this recording through podcasts that will be made after the event and also the publication but I can see people going towards the stage, the main stage here in Pelouse, Roye, Village de Cirque, let's listen a little bit to the crowd, maybe meeting people while we are waiting for to start to begin. Hello? Hello, where are you from? Brooklyn, yeah. Can you come with me? We're going to talk with, coming from Brooklyn? United States. What are you doing? I'm here on behalf of the non-profit Thomas Dot, so I'll be taking part in a session at 3 p.m. today, so discussing work visas for artists who'd like to come and perform in the U.S. And it's quite difficult to get in the U.S.? It is very difficult, so I'm going to be debunking some sort of pervasive myths and just sort of talking about like the bureaucratic procedure of it all and the costs associated as well. Okay, and what is your advice? My advice? Yeah, to get the visa to get to the States. How about my head, start is early, can you start again? Starting the process as early as possible would be like my number one tip because it can be quite long, months even, so. What's your name again? My name is Shelley Pinker and I'm with Thomas Dot. And your organization is called? Thomas Dot. Okay, it's a big one? It's pretty small actually. There's only, I think we have about three employees right now, so it's quite small, but. And who is helping you to get the money to be able to have your foundation? How do you work? We have a national endowment for the arts grant that we work with, so. And we take donations as well from those who are interested. I guess it started. Thank you. To you from Bochlin. My English is really, it's a sleepy English, so I'll be fast. Okay, so my name is Marie Chapoulier and I have the pleasure to work at the direction of Cooperative De Rue de Cirque with Rémi Bovis, with the founder, founder, the founder. Thank you. Really, we are really pleased to see you here, ladies, gentlemen, and others at Village de Cirque. Village de Cirque is a festival who supports circus creation on the big top, of course, and outdoor circus. It's one of, it's a part of activity of Cooperative De Rue de Cirque. Today it's a little rainy. We are really sorry, but we hope that the rain is going away soon, and we hope that you will have a really interesting and pleasant time here under our big top, and this afternoon at Ruat, at the Montfort, and at Le Poinson. Thank you so much to you, and now you can say it in French, perhaps, Rémi. So we're going to have a great day. The rain will stop. And this morning we're here, and this afternoon we'll be in three different spots. What? Outside and inside? What is the place for creation that we opened exactly one year ago? I'd like to add one thing, which is important to us in De Rue de Cirque. We're a member of Cirque Australia for years now, and we try to develop support for artists across all disciplines in public spaces, and also in the big top to defend minorities, to defend shows that are produced in difficult conditions that give voice to people that we don't hear from anymore, and we do include a very diversified programming for all kinds of audiences for everyone, and our programming is really based on that. It's important for us to be here, and that there's so many of you here today and yesterday, 40 countries represented, over 300 people participating, I think that today, when expression is threatened, artistic expression, and the freedom of expression is suffering in many of your countries, in many regions of France as well. There are collectivities, government, local government that is taking steps they would never have dared take before, and I think it's important for us to come together in all the languages we can to defend minorities, and this freedom of expression that's so important to all of us. I wish you a wonderful morning, and I look forward to seeing you later, work well. Organize those three days, incredible three days, and Arsena, thank you so much to them. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. If somebody was sleeping, it's the end. Thank you so much, Marie-Andrémy, for this introduction. I'm just going to take a few moments to say that I'm very happy to see how many of you still stayed on Friday. I know it's tiring, and it's rainy, but the rain will stop. Also, what I wanted to say is that I was super, I feel super lucky and privileged to have been part of so many conversations during these two days on care, on safety, and today on sustainability, but there is really one conversation that really was fascinating last night that I want to share with you, is the one on chickpeas, and if chickpeas should be cooked or not. And it's really a good conversation, because when you talk about care and safety, and really chickpeas become the priority of your professional life. So I was really happy for you to have this conversation last night. I hope this is one of the best takeaways from this fresh event, and really, thank you so much for this. Where do our priorities are? Anyways, this comes from a place of love, of course. So today we are super lucky to have with us Eric Le Noir. Eric Le Noir is a landscape designer, he's here with us. He's going to give us a keynote around 20 minutes in French. So if you don't have your headset, go get it there now, or in the next couple of minutes, I can see. And all the other interventions will be in English, but only this one will be in French. So I'm going to read the title of the keynote, so it'll give you some time to go get your set. And the title of the keynote is caring for the living and earning a decent living, or how to respect your ecological commitment without giving up your job. So it's quite an interesting title. Without any further ado, I will give the floor to Monsieur Le Noir, and welcome you on stage. Hello everyone. I'll just give a moment for everyone to get their headset. Should I just stop by saying I'm so happy to be here, and I'd like to thank Art Sénat for inviting me and giving me the opportunity to speak about this topic. I'm going to speak slowly to begin while people get their headsets and get set up. The recipe for the chickpeas, Stefan, did you get it? It's a very important issue. We could talk about greenhouse gases in relationship to those chickpeas. So how can we respect our ecological commitment without giving up your job? As a landscape designer, and as a citizen even still, it's more important even just as a citizen's eye, doing a job that is related to living things, and I have to sell something to people. I have to change our territory and land, and in our context it can be a little complex. We have a problem sometimes that we all want to go towards sustainability, the environment, ecology, staying all right. I get it. I'm going to do what needs to be done. The only problem is the immense majority of people doesn't really know what the stakes are and what they represent. So this is not a pipe. We can say this is not a forest. That's a plantation of trees. That's not a forest. I have a little technical trouble here. These are forests. Can you see the difference? This is not a forest. It is a grove. I'm just going to embrace low tech here. As I said, we make a new green space for leisure and then people give you this. It's just right next door. This is 10 kilometers from here. Someone says this is a mistake. This is disinformation. This misinformation, the intention may have been good, but when it lends to this kind of result with fences everywhere and a forest that was destroyed to make this instead, this is not helping the climate. This is not ecological. It's not the approach we want to take today. This is misinformation. This is misleading information. So despite ourselves, we are feeding a dangerous system while thinking that we're doing a good thing. We need a little bit. We need demand. We need to be demanding, but also humble. The number of people who do just terrible things trying to do things right is really quite high and we're all probably guilty of that without realizing it, for example. Very interesting. You can eat avocados because you want to try not to eat meat, but they've come from Chile or Mexico. They're organic, but still we make benches out of recycled plastic. So we have favored the continued use of plastic and we put more into the environment. You've got logs from railway lines to recycle them and make tables. There's Creosote inside there, which is very highly polluting and we all think we're doing great. So this is like a magic show. It doesn't work. It's all an illusion. Bees is a major issue. We all want to save the bees everywhere on the planet. We said we need to save the bees because I instead said on Facebook that if bees disappeared, that if there were no bees, they would be here humans. He never said that, just 20 or 9. It doesn't matter. It's inspiring and it's very, very important to say the bees, except that these are domestic bees. They don't matter. We don't need to save sheep, to save wild nature. We don't need to save domestic bees, to save nature. I'll do this and maybe I'll work. In Paris, there are 1,000 to 2,000 beehives. That's 15 hives per square kilometer. That's a huge amount of beehives. Now we're trying to forbid people from putting on hives up and now the city is starting to have to forbid it because there are too many. They're domestic animals. They're pets. They have a function. Okay, then to produce honey by pollinizing flowers and it gives us fruits and seeds. The anaphylamines, they are big and fat. They pollinize all the flower and they put a pheromone on those flowers, which says I've eaten it all. So if you look here, there's a couple of millimeters long. They live in the ground alone. They're disappearing because we've put so many hives. They're the ones we need. Butterflies that are pollinizing, they also drink in dirty water, not only pollinizing flowers and they will also disappear if there are too many bees. When we do landscaping here, we put these plants with lots of flowers to bring domestic bees to an area, but that kills the bees that are in the ground. We just need to leave the wild areas as they are. This is worse than ever. Oh, gosh. Oh, here we go. Another magic trick. So a whole different font. What's going on? This is incredible. Circus is incredible. You just never know what's going to happen at a circus tent. So honestly, question your practices. What am I doing? Why? And what is what I'm doing really useful? Or is it maybe counterproductive? Is it dangerous? In fact, if you make a big show like Burning Man, big festival, which is supposed to be ecological and environmental, leave no trace being the theme. That's great. But maybe it's great to leave no trace, but water mess on the way. 70,000 people in the middle of a desert. It means there's water. When you burn things like that, 3,000 liters of kerosene per hour on fire, air conditioning, and all the camping cars in the mobile homes that work with the petrol-fueled electricity generators. And then the beginning has started off being environmental. Now people come in their private jets. There are the stars that come in their private jets, which have a little bit of an environmental impact nonetheless. It's not exactly as it was supposed to be. Oh, no. So you have the fire for when it burns. That's a disgusting black smoke that comes out. That's the road traffic. Is it there to go to Burning Man? This year with the rain, it looked like that. That's what we can see. That's the tip of the iceberg. That's the part you cannot see. It's a big problem. Look at it. But what you don't see so much is this. All the animals that were moved out for days, weeks, or years because of the stress by that kind of event is colossal for animals. We don't know what's happening really. People come to Burning Man have no idea about life in the desert. And one of their species is this shrimp that lives in the middle of the desert. They live as eggs. When it rains, they can come to life. But while there are 70,000 people stomping around in that area where they would have been born. This is a field from birds from fields. This is the effect of a fire. The New York City fireworks display all of the populations of birds were totally stressed in the middle of the night at January 1st at midnight. That's in Belgium. They just fly away. This is so stressful. There are animals that die that hit each other in panic. There are nests that disappear, all kinds of things. And also on the 14th of July, we say can we recycle aluminium of coffee capsules? So let's talk about the idea of resilience. Almost. This is a context. You can talk about the environment, little gestures that we make, the actions we take. The context is this. What I'm doing is what I'm doing on the right scale for the stakes here. When you see forest dying, deserts appearing in France, that's a fire in Belgium near a factory. When you see the anthropocentric era, which we could also call the capitalistic area, which is now in the geological layers and shows the results of our activity. It's pretty ugly. It's nice to sort your trash, but maybe we need to go further and then you've got Dubai. Fantastic. But here we are. If you're here, is that you want to change things? At least, you want to change your practices? You've already considered that there is a problem, even if you haven't explored all of the levels of that problem. You have to start by admitting your vulnerability on an interdependence. What is our level of interdependence without the environment we live in? It's unbelievably high. Does anyone know the word hollow beyond? You can raise your hand if you know it already. A perfect example of hollow beyond is coral. You have little polyps, little organisms. They're a huge colony on a mineral structure that they have created themselves. Another hollow beyond is you. You and your micro-biont. All the microbes you have in your body and yourself, that's a hollow beyond. You're a living being made up of other living beings. You have to consider that we are part of a bigger hollow beyond, which is the planet, which is very complex and fragile. We can be forward here. All the little elements, all the tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny elements that are part of living life on Earth, interact with the others at all levels. Whether it's you burn a big fire in the middle of the desert with 3,000 liters of kerosene, or you're just walking in the street, there's always an interaction. Let's come back to this. Animals, remember that being there, there's always an interaction with the rest of the environment around you. So if we want to be able to move forward in our sector, we have to consider our role in the hollow beyond. What is our place? Am I an element, a major element where I am? Am I destructive? Can I? Am I positive? We're all of those things at once, in fact, with variables that can change a lot from one context to another or from one moment to another. So we need to be humble because we depend on nature. We know now with 100% certainty that biodiversity, the diversity of all of the living beings, is very important to limit risks of pandemics. You have fewer pandemics and epidemics when you have high levels of biodiversity. We all know that it's collapsing and we may have played a role in that. So we need to cause less damage as well as protect it. So we may need to also look at biodiversity to save it just in order to live. See, there's some water today. Sure, there's still water tomorrow. Well, there's still water left. In case of doubt, always favor our simplicity and treading lightning. If I don't know what to do, if I have a doubt, if I think that maybe I might cause damage, I'll try to keep and find the easiest, lightest solution that would need the less, the slowest amount of technology of infrastructure, the least amount of everything. It's not always painful. In my job as a landscape designer, it's a kind of way of life. I accept poverty from sometimes. Now it doesn't make me suffer anymore because I have a little bit of notoriety and I give my talks, but I'm better said to some clients who ask me certain things. I had to refuse. I said, I want to do it because I think it's damaging. I don't think it makes sense. I think your ethics is rotten and you're bastards and I don't want to work for you. It also goes through inventiveness, which is a bit ballsy. You have to change your imagination. In landscape design, it's supposed to be Instagramable, the things we design. It's very pretty. When I get to people and I give them that and say, it's finished. You can come home. That's done. I've done it now. You have to really work hard with them. I'm going to massage that idea. In the following months, it changed. It had to start off looking like that and then I created a place. You don't need to water. You'll never need to take care of the trees. It will be biodiverse. There'll be no problem of water. It will come there. It will infiltrate the soil and instead of running away, you'll have flowers that weren't planned for, but it will cost you nothing. But it has to start by looking like this. If I had done that, leaving, if I had left the school, I would never have passed the exams. This is also an agriculture where we're starting to design things differently. We're coming back to ancient practices. We're kind of reinventing the wheel. We're kind of coming backwards to do after we went to 120 million inhabitants. Now we've got 8 billion. Feeding people is a different scale now. There's some good experiments that have been done. Instead of having big uniform fields, we're having things now that are much more diversified. Instead of having crops that are enormous, we're dividing into small parcels and it works. It doesn't work with simplicity. There's also a question of clientele for that. If you want to plant trees in the middle of the field, you have to eat something that's on the tree and because peasants are not going to plant stuff that no one can eat yet they can't sell. These key lines are different kinds of crops. Instead of doing, we do lines and then we put trees and we mix the crops instead of having a huge, very expensive wheat crop, particularly since we can't get it from Ukraine. You have a bit less wheat, a bit less money but you'll have much more resilience as a result. Instead of saying I want this, I want that at the place that I have, we have to say what could I do in this place and what place can I live for the rest of life. It gives that. It's nothing but cost nothing between making just a lawn and to do that, the 20 species that can appear because the person decided to just use the lawn mower to make a heart instead of taking everything off. You could be creative. It's an anarchist landscape designer. I can see my job this way, a little bit of humility. I try to do as good a job as she does. This is what she does. She can make that, that landscape. It didn't cost very much. There's four posts, one cow in the middle and that's what the landscape ends up looking like because there's not a lot of landscape artists that could make something so beautiful with that cow. Pulling our efforts, very important. You don't need to hear that as circus performance. Of course you know that working together is key. The living world is inspired by that. Here you have an insect which eats rotting flesh, charming, but there's a parasite on him. These are mites that know that this species will take it somewhere where they can find food. So the insect is okay to carry them. The mites might even solve some of his problems and he just takes them where they want to go. The bigger insect doesn't die more because of that and it doesn't cost anything more physically. It's not a big effort for him. Or it doesn't try to get rid of the mites on its back. That doesn't bother. And maybe sometimes that the bigger ones can carry this more once in the world. Pulling our efforts here to transform things. We have an imagination. Maybe we could do it collectively and maybe working together we can we can make it look like something. Here you see initiatives by citizens who want to take, who will take care of poorer people if it's not us. Is it the workers fraternity where two crazy guys that grains seeds that allow you to grow the food for yourself should not be expensive. And they set that up manually right close right close to here. There's some crazy people here who who took over that some public space to let people who live there use it and allow them to use it. What we're doing at nature it's inspiring nature doesn't make it any trash it doesn't exist. There are no there's no waste in nature in our global footprints as humans. We are capable physiologically biologically genetically we're designed to not make any waste. Waste is a huge problem now. It's something that it's we don't need to do. We're the only species on earth that produces waste. Why? Nature does not make waste it creates it creates resources but still this is a tree in a very dry place in the southwest of France very dry place the oriental the western uh Pyrenees that which is the most uh hit by climate change these forests contain very very old trees which are now dead so this dead tree has got all these true holes in it so there are insects in it who are nourished by it and then animals that eat those insects and so now it's like a sponge when you go into one of the holes that's been dug by a beetle you find liquid water that was the end of august last year it hadn't rained since april the region was very dry and there was liquid water running inside that tree when you're working with the wild nature always wins you've seen machu Picchu you can see Angkorra you can see Chernobyl I've been there to see it with my own eyes the nature wins nature always wins it's just a question of time watch nature what diversity there's a question but we've got good allies we can choose good allies from the start so you have to have good practices take them on board you have to vehicle these practices I think this is what needs to be done and show an example live by example even if that shakes things up if it's for the right cause there's no choice if you don't do it the problem is collective not just a little bit tricky now because there will be less few bees it's just we won't be able to live there anymore and means you work in the in the arts I work in gardens if there's a world where there's no resources we can't do anything we can't work some more meaning so the best is to start simplifying as as much as we can now here we are just to say we're really on a little a tiny fragile planet in the middle of all of that I think I've reached the end thank you very much so we have listened to Eric Lenoir it's very clear very strong talks Eric Lenoir as you could hear is a landscape designer and what he told us was the less we do the best it is and he presented his himself on the screen like a cow and he said this is me an anarchist lamp kept designer like the cow we could see and we asked him to join us for a few more talks because I want to know a bit more about Eric Lenoir who joined us Eric congratulations thanks yeah we can stand or we can sit I prefer to sit but I don't hear you correctly so I'm getting closer to you thanks you hear me yeah that's great hi you have a way to talk very simple no it's like a militantism it's activism you're an activist more than a philosopher of landscape design the act is something very important you can talk for hours if you don't act it's news when you start to work as a landscape designer in this purpose of sustainability when did it start for you I tried to start at first but I wasn't able I wasn't able of that because the system wants something else so it took me something like 20 years to do it like I want because the system wants a quick result the system wants more than quick results it wants an image a global image that that's how can I tell that in English say it in French maybe I will be able to translate yeah there's a collective image of the gardens that needs that need to be a certain way if you if you watch the movie Edward Ciderhans you know that you can see the gardens in it that's part of the imagination of people they want something close to that like disparate those wives and everything there's an image of the garden that leads to that people do the things but they don't know why they just want to have a clean garden a showy garden but they don't know why they don't use it they don't live in it they don't play in it you would say that the garden is like a handbag like a handbag yeah I'm trying to understand what you mean with that like you show your garden more than you live with your garden okay I didn't have the reference because I don't have any handbag so tell me what do you have in your bag to make the garden I thought it's a backpack so you have a backpack what what are your tools what are your tools a knife a knife I need a knife I need a bit of a rope a rope yeah yes a rope I need a book I need a I need a a paper yes some paper some paper and a pen to draw on it or to write on it that's all what do you look at at first when you arrive on the site on the site yes what do you look at first you look at the sky you look at the ground you look around there's not any order something jump into my eyes at first it depends on the situation one of the problems is that people want a solution the one solution there is no one solution there are ways and non-solution that the truth is that so you have to be humble with anything you propose you may have the solution within your purpose but it's not sure and so you have to to explore all the ways that appears to you and the first thing that oh and the first thing to tell us that there will be the artistic talk now starting now and I can see that Maria Baranosky and Lieberman will talk and Andrea Salustry just will take for the first thing Eric Lenoir and we'll let them talking so what is the first thing what is my sorry the first thing to do the first thing to do is to do nothing it's to watch to watch to understand what happens there thank you very much Eric continue on the artistic talk