 à tout le monde pour votre présence dans ce panel qui est un petit peu impromptu. Je pense qu'on devait avoir une autre présentation, mais toujours des changements à la dernière minute. Alors merci de votre présence. Et puis aujourd'hui, ce qu'on voulait faire, c'est un panel qui m'est très cher. On m'a demandé parce que je suis impliqué dans le français, je ne suis pas impliqué dans le multilinguisme, mais aujourd'hui, ce n'est pas moi qui va parler. Aujourd'hui, c'est mes invités qui vont parler. Et oui, ce panel va être complètement multilingueux. Donc on va parler en français anglais et c'est ça, parce que je ne parle pas la troisième langue. Je suis désolé pour ça. Et mes invités vont aussi avoir l'occasion de parler dans la langue de leur choix, pour changer, comme nous le faisons souvent en Montréal, en français anglais, dans la même sentence si ils sont aussi désirés. Alors, sans plus de faire, nous avons un nombre de questions. Je voudrais vous introduire à Alex Roua. Je voudrais vous introduire à Mike Dixon, ainsi que Jonathan Perlman. Et ma première question va être très facile à commencer avec. Alex, venant tout de suite ici, serait une question très simple. Comment avez-vous pensé et fait un multilingueux dans l'écosystème du WordPress ? Depuis que j'ai commencé à construire des websites, je ne suis pas de Québec, mais j'ai vécu ici depuis les dernières 9 ans. J'ai construit des websites pour 6 ans, et j'ai construit des websites bilingueux pour des clients de Québec. Je vais voir ce que c'est. Je fais beaucoup de websites. Je vis en Ottawa et je suis unilingueux. Si vous me demandez une question en français, ça va être comme ça. Je fais des websites pour les non-profits et des caractéristes comme ça dans l'Ottawa. Ils ont besoin d'être multilingueux. J'ai fait ça depuis des années. Je travaille à Dawson College. Dawson College est le plus grand cijap, pas seulement le plus grand anglais cijap. Nous devons avoir une présence de l'information bilingueuse pour nos départements de l'HR, nos départements financiers. Nous faisons des sites satellites qui sont bilingueux, non seulement bilingueux. Nous avons fait WordPress depuis 2013. Nous avons fait un site multilingueux et le site bilingueux a été créé il y a quelques années. Merci. Je sais que vous avez vu les questions. Je vais commencer à les changer. Je suis curieux parce que mon premier camp était en 2010. Je savais que je devais faire un bilingueux. Qu'est-ce que vous pensez que quelqu'un ne peut s'interrompre avec la question? Je ne croise pas que ce sont des questions. Ok, la prochaine est en français. J'ai fait ça depuis longtemps. Il y avait seulement quelques outils que nous pouvons utiliser pour faire un bilingueux. Comment avez-vous essayé de faire un bilingueux? Comment a-t-il travaillé pour vous? C'est votre premier projet. Jonathan? À ce point, nous avons regardé les plus grands plugins. Nous n'avons pas aimé installer les plugins. Nous avons choisi les plugins très bien et nous avons trouvé que les plus grands plugins font un bilingueux de l'information, font un bilingueux de la post-content. À ce point, nous avons regardé la approche multisite et les pages différentes, les langues différentes. Alors que notre contenu reste intact. Il y aura un peu moins de cleanup d'autres codes ou d'autres manières qui poursuivent l'information. Nous avons besoin de notre contenu pour être portables pour que nous puissions réutiliser le bilingueux dans plusieurs manières et être portables par différents systèmes. Je vais demander une question pour Jonathan. Quand tu dis « messer la date », tu veux dire comment c'est installé dans le database? Non, comment c'est installé dans la post-content. À ce point, des plugins, ce qu'ils font, c'est qu'ils sont installés en anglais et en français dans une page de post-content. Et visuellement, ce qu'ils font, c'est que les langues en anglais, en français et en anglais mais internement dans ce contenu, tu as des langues toutes les trois, toutes les langues que tu apportes, tu as des langues en une post-content. Et pour nous, c'est un problème où, dans la rue, on peut prendre et utiliser ça d'une autre manière et c'est beaucoup plus difficile à travailler avec. Est-ce qu'il y a quelqu'un ici qui m'a parlé hier à WPML? Vous vous souvenez du concept core que j'ai commencé? C'est vrai. J'ai regardé, bref, quelques autres plugins, et j'ai landé sur WPML, surtout parce que j'ai trouvé quelque chose qu'il ne peut pas transmettre. Et à votre point, tout est son objectif. Il n'y a pas d'anglais comme ça. Je sais ce que tu parles de shore codes mais ce n'est pas ce que WPML fait. J'ai regardé, bref, les autres, Polylang et il y a un autre, je ne m'en souviens pas le nom, mais WPML est celui que j'ai trouvé qu'à quoi j'ai essayé de transmettre, je peux le faire. Je suis un petit business, je n'ai pas d'expérimentaire en essayant de faire quelque chose pour moi-même. Je vais prendre ce que j'ai trouvé qui fonctionne et aller avec ça. C'est la meilleure solution que je peux trouver. Oh, on y va. On reviendra encore. Donc la question est... Ok. Donc la question est, qu'est-ce qu'est-ce qu'il y a des critères sur lesquels tu décides quelles solutions et approches tu vas utiliser pour faire un site multilingual et Mike est en train de nous donner l'answer. Tu es en train de répondre donc j'ai pensé que je l'ai prévenu, j'ai juste donné un tel reploi. Oui, c'est l'answer. L'answer c'est qu'il n'y a pas d'answer. C'est... La dernière fois que j'ai regardé Polylang il y a quelques années, l'une des critères que j'ai regardé c'est comment est-ce que c'est facile d'être traduit. Et comment est-ce qu'il y a de l'exemple de la database dans le processus de faire ça. Parce que quand j'ai envoyé un site à un client, si ils m'ont aidé d'être le manager de ce site, ils n'ont pas les privilèges parce que je ne veux pas qu'ils puissent aller en train d'aller au menu de Weirdo ou de garder quelque chose dans leur tête ou de faire ça de cette manière pour les prendre entre anglais et français ou quelque chose. Et donc l'expérience de l'admins est une des choses que j'ai regardé quand j'évaluais ça. Si tu m'as demandé pourquoi j'ai choisi WPML sur Polylang il y a des années, j'en remercie pas. J'ai utilisé WPML quand je faisais ma première décision et j'ai toujours utilisé ça depuis toujours. Je vais juste faire quelques définitions si quelqu'un ne sait pas quel est WPML. WPML est un plugin qui vous aide à faire le site bilingual, trilingual, multilingual. C'est un autre plugin. C'est un plugin libre. Je pense que c'est complètement libre. XTranslate est un autre plugin si c'est toujours là-bas. Jonathan m'a mentionné un multi-site qui est un default où vous pouvez avoir plusieurs sites dans votre installation single. Pour répondre à votre question oui, comme WPML ne mangle pas le database XTranslate et Polylang que j'ai utilisé où généralement j'ai ingénie d'un site qui est déjà existant et les clients sont déjà utilisés. Il y a des moyens mais c'est très difficile de changer d'un site WPML ou un multi-site parce que le site est installé avec d'autres informations. WPML dans les dernières quelques mois a arrêté leur package lifetime. Vous pouvez payer 300$ pour autant de sites etc. Ils ont juste arrêté ça donc je pense qu'ils sont maintenant sur les packages annuelles et il y a des sites single et des sites développeurs. C'est bien worth le money comme Mike m'a dit je pense que je n'ai jamais vécu quelque chose que je ne peux pas transmettre en utilisant WPML et l'important c'est que si votre client va éditer les sites c'est très bien de garder l'anglais français et anglais séparé. Par exemple Polylang mélange les pages français et anglais dans votre liste de pages donc vous devez aller en français et anglais et vous devez gérer la base du site donc vous avez sorti de l'entrée mais j'ai juste demandé et ça peut s'appliquer mais je voudrais entendre leurs pensées si quelqu'un est venu de votre client et vous avez appris d'y aider par un méthode multilingue qui ne sont pas habituées ou qui ne sont pas habituées. Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire ? À ce point, si un ami ou un professionnel m'a demandé de m'aider à l'aide, il y a un contracte qui est associé à l'amélioration. Parce qu'il y a un contracte et de l'argent, vous regardez la documentation pour le plug-in ou la méthode et vous faites le meilleur travail que vous pouvez faire. Parce que si vous ne savez pas ce que vous faites, vous allez, à ce point, mettre l'effort en place. Et d'ailleurs, vous allez avoir un bon référent, et ça va générer un certain sort de business, donc vous regardez la documentation et le plug-in et la méthode. Et vous pouvez aussi demander, surtout dans la communauté Facebook, vous pouvez définitivement demander de la soutenir, parce que le fait d'une multilinguelle, surtout en Québec, c'est un grand sujet. Il y a beaucoup d'autres personnes, qui sont contents de soutenir et d'aide sur des situations spécifiques, etc. Merci. Mike, qu'est-ce que vous pourriez faire ? Je ne sais pas seulement comment dire. C'est un bon conseil. Oui, c'est bon. Oui, c'est bon. Si quelqu'un s'est venu et qu'il y a dans le passé, et qu'il y a de l'autre façon de faire un multilingue, j'ai maintenant l'expérience avec plusieurs plug-ins différents, et un multilingue, parce que j'ai toujours dit oui. Et j'ai appris les moyens de le faire. Si je suis en train de construire un site de scratch, ou si je suis en train de redouer un site, je vais toujours recommencer à la client que je fais avec WPML. Si je suis la plus familiale, la plus profonde, et personnellement, je trouve que c'est le meilleur moyen de faire un site multilingue. Mais si le client est venu pour moi et qu'ils ont un site, et qu'ils utilisent Polylang, ou si c'est un site multilingue, je vais dire oui, je vais dire comment. Parce que j'ai maintenant l'expérience avec plusieurs moyens de le faire. Merci. C'est une bonne chose. Qu'est-ce qu'il y a de votre client ou des réquises? Est-ce qu'il faut un multilingue? En Québec, tout le site que j'ai construit pour un client en Québec, j'ai l'impression de dire que mon site n'est pas bilingual. Partly parce que je ne suis pas bilingual, mais tout le site que j'ai construit pour un client en Québec a été bilingual. Certains sites que j'ai construits pour clients au-delà de Québec, ou en Europe, ou dans les Etats-Unis, certains ont été bilingual. Je dirais que 80% de tous les sites que j'ai construits sont bilingual. Donc 80% d'accord. Jonathan, une opinion sur ça? Personnellement, j'ai travaillé sur un site que nous allons faire bilingual, professionnellement, dans mon travail au moment où Alex est 80%, je suis en fait moins de 20% parce que le fact que Dawson College a dit est une institution de langage anglais, et nous faisons fall under other rules par le gouvernement, donc parce que nous pouvons dodger un bullet, nous serons définitivement dodgons le bullet. Donc, oui. Ok, c'est ce que vous avez besoin, ce n'est pas... Mike? Vous avez vu que les clients que je fais sont multilingual, et tous les non-profits sont, donc je dirais, 1,5 ou 3,5 de les clients canadiens sont multilingual. Je peux justement add un comment à mon répond? Les clients qui ne sont pas bilingual, comme ceux qui sont en Canada, mais pas bilingual, c'est usually because they are not happy or they are not able to provide their services in that second language. So myself, I'm not able to speak French with any proficiency, certainly, not yet. So I have kind of not translated my site because I don't want to give the impression that I could provide the service in French. I think you should probably ask at Quebec Francophone how they feel about that, but that's kind of... How do you feel about that? How do I feel about that? I'm here to ask the questions. Seriously though, unknowingly you also open another door. Since you speak mostly English now, but you do 80% of your client's sites in French, who translates for you? So I do not do content for my clients. I'm a big believer in building on your strength than letting the others who have a strength to build on that. So I don't do the copy or the content for my clients. So either the client provides the English and the French, usually, or the three languages for some sites. Or I have translators that I've worked with who I can say here's the English, please go and use the French and just to add on to that, another benefit of using WPML is it actually has a translation manager built into it. So WPML is not just one plugin. There is one core plugin, but then there are additional plugins. So if you're using WooCommerce, you can have a WooCommerce WPML plugin that will help translate that specifically. I think there's a Yoast SEO and WPML plugin. So Advanced Custom Fields ACF plugin also has the same additional plugin for WPML. One of the other WPML plugins is translation management. And it enables you to mark posts, pages, content on your website for translation. You can add other users. So for example, your translator can be added as a user on the site. You can assign them the content to be translated. You can set like deadlines etc. You can track how the translation is going, how they're doing, how many pages they've done, if they've done 70% or only 5%. So they can do the translation directly on the site which I find saves time because then they don't send you a Word document or a PDF and you have to do copy and paste. They actually enter instructions on the site. Mike, do you hire translators as well to do that copy? No, exactly the same. Doing the actual translation is somebody else's problem. What I'm doing is providing the ability for the site to be translated and that bears pointing out as well. None of these plugins are machine translators. All they do is provide the ability for a translation to be done. They don't do the translation for you. The actual entering of the content is the client problem. OK. In the case of Dawson College, do you have French-speaking people I've assumed that? Do you have an entire French department? Meanwhile that French department doesn't do the translation for Dawson. We do have a convocations team and they're completely bilingual. Therefore, again echoing Mark's statement as IT, from the IT perspective we provide the platform and at that point we hand off the platform to communications and or the user because as an example we've got a Confucius Institute site and while French and English is a Quebec standard language they also have a Mandarin site. They have a Mandarin language on their website and while we can probably make out English and French, Mandarin is something you just have to understand and know. Therefore, when we're putting content in or they're putting content in so again it's just the user that has to do the content and as I said in terms of just French and English we have a convocations team for that. Thank you. Here's a question that's going to be fun to answer. Tell me a story about an issue or a major pitfall in any project of your liking where things really went south. Have fun. OK. So I would say it's in general a major pitfall of WPML. It's a little bit less so now. It used to be with WPML you had to write your content in English and then translate to a second, third, fourth language. That has changed recently. You can write your content in English, Spanish, Arabic, Mandarin, whatever and translate to not even English anymore. But I find problems usually when I'm educating my clients on how to update, change, add to their content. There is a certain workflow and a certain education of users in how to go about using say WPML for translation. So it can get a bit messy if you write a page in English and translate to French and somebody else starts writing it in French and translates to English you have categories etc that you've set up in English and then somebody sets up new categories in French. Everything with WPML should be a translation of usually I would say your primary language. So if you are going to use WPML pick your primary language and do everything in that primary language and make everything else a translation. You are not entering an English version a French version, a Spanish or whatever version. You are always translating into the second, third, fourth languages. And that also goes like themes, plugins etc. WPML, admin text all of that can be translated with WPML but it gets messy when people do not translate they start making new categories because one of the beauties of WPML is on the front end it's very seamless. I know it's on a English category page they use the language switcher they go to the French category page it's the same category just with the translations. It's not a whole new one, you don't have to relink things. So that is a recurring pitfall with WPML when my clients are then using it for the first few times. Mike, last week's episode the week prior what I spent most of last week doing was taking two Drupal 7 sites and a Drupal 8 sites all with three different languages extracting the content and merging them into one WordPress site that was not fun but it worked and this is it was tricky and it was finicky and all that stuff but it does work and this is the other reason why I keep coming back to WPML and that is that as difficult as some things can be to translate there was always a way to do it somehow another one of the issues I had was there's a theme framework called Genesis it adds the ability to have a custom post type archive page that neither WordPress nor WPML know about but there is a way to tell WordPress to tell WPML about it so that it can then be translated so even if it's not something in the admin interface you can do a little kung fu with the code and suddenly it shows up and it works but yeah, I'm glad last week is over Jonathan, issues, challenges? The challenge actually is not really on a technical level and this happened a while back in the as laws change within the government we've got to obviously adapt to the laws and the big adaptation was that our HR site had to be translated so at the beginning we didn't have any French content so therefore the HR administrators and individuals in HR well they basically just translated the content with their knowledge of French and that didn't exactly resound well with our with our perspective career people with the people coming into the site that are looking for jobs and looking for specific information from HR well they're now finding grammatical errors and our French content so this was before communications had the team to do what they do right now and so at that point we actually had to go to external translators and do an official translation and at that point bill HR for the work but so one of the key takeaways is that if you do know the second language but not complete completely know that second language invest the time invest the cash into doing a professional translation because at that point it's just like your real content it's just like your English content or your primary content at that point that content is going to serve you a lot better with proper spelling, proper grammar and proper punctuation because you're just doing yourself a disservice do you mind if I just add a couple of things of course not so a couple of things just occurred to me we're talking about multisite about plugins like WPML for doing multilingual if you're on wordpress.com you've actually now got fairly similar options up until recently multisite was the only way to really do bilingual, trilingual, multilingual on wordpress.com the word camp websites are actually all multisites so that's how we do the bilingualism for the word camp websites that's multisite on wordpress.com if you actually have a business plan on wordpress.com very recently you've now been able to upload your own plugins which includes WPML I've actually done that for a client recently it works fairly well but I would say one caveat here is it's fairly new to be able to upload plugins on wordpress.com so some of the plugins they're not built for the new editor if you use wordpress.com you've used the new editor not the WP admin I'm sure it has a name and I can't think of it Calypso, thank you yes, if you use the new Calypso editor one of the problems we had was actually our second language content kept disappearing and the Calypso editor does not really work with WPML yet so just a caveat you can use plugins like WPML on wordpress.com now with a business plan it's a paid plan but at least when I was doing this a few months ago use the WP admin editor not the Calypso editor thanks, yeah a few people here we're interested in that I think there's a question up here sir so the question is and it's a loaded one what are we going to use for translation with Gutenberg I'm going to take a first stack at it and say that I will assume and I think of no that for example WPML development team are hard at work already trying to make sure all these blocks can be found they can be translated of course that is only one vendor I can't speak for all of them perhaps you guys have more information on other approaches as well of course multisite is multisite so that's never going to be an issue yeah I think you've got to do that multisite what happens is that the post content is normal there's nothing WPML doesn't wrangle it it is on so because multisites stores the post content as normal and it's just a different site and every site is its own language what happens there is that with Gutenberg if it works for English it's going to do the exact same thing for French and you're just literally changing the words at that point in the other site so at that point Gutenberg shouldn't really be much of a problem in terms of multilingual if you're using it with multisite involved well I have two answers the first answer is that whenever Gutenberg launches it's going to be a 1.0 product and I don't put 1.0 products into production so what I'm going to be doing is disabling it until version 1.0 something comes out and they figured out what the million plus users have found it's wrong with it that's the first answer the second answer is as was said I'm one of the reasons why the buy once use forever plugin model doesn't work is that in year 4 there's no revenue for the plugin author and so when WPML switched from the lifetime to the annual I didn't really have a problem with that because I want them to have the money to be able to pay people to figure that stuff out for me so I don't have to think about it but for me Gutenberg will be disabled on every site I manage thank you there's one or two questions left I think I'm going to go to the big one because we're starting off getting close to the end we have to assume that having a multilingual website is going to require more work and therefore have an impact on a client's budget how do you deal with that how do you price that how do you estimate the amount of work do you have rules of thumb how do you do it I just add another zero most people who are either coming from an existing site that has multiple languages in it or they are trying to move to a site that has multiple languages in it they're usually pretty clear that it's going to cost more than just hey can you make my theme look better how the process works how you price it that's a magical secret sauce of what their budget is how long I think it's going to take how much content there is what type of things need to be translated there is no form that I can check things off in and out spits a number it is if you ask any freelance developer they'll tell you they have a method but it's not something that they can really articulate and I'm sort of the same way I mean as Mike said it's it's very dependent on what the clients asking you for I it often depends how much it depends what exactly they're asking for so if a client comes to me and they're like I must use this theme for my new website and I look at that theme and it's not WPML compatible which as I say is my preferred way of doing it by the way WPML has a page on the website where you can enter the name, author, whatever of a theme, is it also for plugins or just themes at the moment, the checker ok, yeah they have a page on basically WPML has a certification process for themes I'm not sure if it's also for plugins it's both, plugins and themes so a plugin or theme author can request that the WPML team looks over their plugin or theme and checks that it is compatible and if it is it can be certified WPML compatible WPML will add it to the database on their website and you can search on their website to see whether a theme or plugin is fully compatible if you're using something like theme forest a lot of themes particularly will say WPML compatible but if it doesn't have the WPML logo or you've not checked it on their website be a little circumspect about it so back to the original question if I'm being asked to use a theme that isn't already WPML compatible then I may have to spend time making it so basically if a theme has been properly localized which means it's ready to be used in multiple languages usually that's okay but there's obviously a wide range of standards for themes and plugins so do your homework before know what you're letting yourself in for also as Mike said things like plugins so advanced custom fields etc if you're creating your own custom fields custom post types etc custom archives and so on then there's a lot more work involved because you may have to make sure everything is translatable not just oh it will appear so do your homework first before giving an estimate and find out what you're letting yourself in for how does that impact a budget at Dawson if you decide to have a part of a website bilingual or not well the budgeting at that point would be definitely for the translation itself the physical words being translated and in terms of budgeting at Dawson what we do is mainly timelines as opposed to cost because at this point what we generally do is we spec a project out we estimate time that it'll take and then do we engage with the project or not because of the fact that everything that we do within IT is basically just time based and we don't really have the con well we do but we don't have the real concept of scoping projects out for dollar money amounts it's time that we're scoping out before we open it up for questions what I wanted to ask each of our participants is a very simple one is in one sentence or less if I can even say that one sentence what's the one advice you'd give to people in this room embarking on making a site multilingual one sentence www.codename.d.com my advice would be what I closed with it's not going to be a sentence it's going to be a paragraph my advice would be what I closed with yesterday and that is the correct order if you're starting from scratch the correct order is do your taxonomy terms first then do your posts and pages then do your menus and widgets so yeah thanks yeah plan out the content of the website find out what the content is before you think about how you're going to build the site and make it multilingual I'll see prepare yourself for pain misery and suffering WPML no no no honestly no I'm joking no prepare yourself for work prepare yourself for the time it's going to take and obviously budget accordingly for that just because it's translation is a time consuming effort to get that really done well I'm just going to add one slightly random comment I don't know whether you know or not but obviously WordPress can be installed in any different language pretty much I think I don't know how many translation 180 languages and dialects thank you someone did the homework so if your client is francophone or they're a Spanish speaker or a Mandarin speaker whatever you can install it in that language and translate back also using WPML and you can choose the language of the dashboard for different users so even if I've installed it in French for a client I personally in my user profile will choose to view the dashboard in English just because it makes my life generally a bit easier and also if you're building a multilingual site it's a good way to learn some of another language I would say a large percentage of the French that I do know certainly to read has come from building websites bilingually and using the WordPress interface in French thanks so at this point if there's any questions if you want to feel free to raise your hand and you may even direct your question to a specific speaker if you wish to yes so the question is we're doing three languages one of which doesn't exist in the WordPress world so can we tackle that am I getting it right I can tell you how I would tackle it I'm going to assume that the language that you're using is not one of the languages available in WPML I don't know if Cree is available in WPML or not so we'll assume that it's not the way I would handle that is I would pick one of the languages you know that you're never going to be translating that content into and set that as the language for Cree and then go in and use the tools that are built in to WPML that let you modify the strings within WPML itself to change the flag and change the languages to whatever it is you want them to be because really there's only three things you'd need to change you need to change the flag the localized name of the language and the English name of the language and I believe that there are tools that let you do that that let you change the flag so that's how I would do it but I've never done that that's just what comes to my mind another possibility might be talking to WordPress Central and seeing if you can establish a new base language but obviously that's going to take way more time than going Mike's route because you'll have to go through some red tape I'm just going to say one little thing Mike brought up the flags so WPML by default I think or maybe not anymore but you can have a flag next to the language in the language switcher and on a particularly I'm talking from a Canadian perspective here you don't have to have the British flag against English and the French flag against French you could have for example the Canadian flag against the English and the Quebec flag against the French or whatever you like so you can change that flag for something if you feel it's more appropriate just like flags altogether because language is not equal to culture or political affiliation so you have to be careful about that too if somebody's French Canadian but a federalist political angle then that blue and white flag may not go well with them yeah I get rid of the flags I never use the flags yeah we never use the flags personally question je pense pas qu'il y a de meilleures extensions c'est une extension c'est une approche il y a WPML, il y a multilien, il y a Wiglot il y a des applications qui gardent votre contenu sur votre site ça c'est une autre question qu'on n'a pas posé il y a des applications également qui travaillent en sas ou en cloud et vos traductions sont hébergées sur un site qui n'est pas le vôtre et que vous accédez en temps réel quand le site est vu alors est-ce que c'est une bonne idée une mauvaise idée il y a probablement en 10 et 15 plugins du dilinguisme WPML c'est juste que c'est une des plus connues c'est la meilleure je pense pas qu'il y en a de meilleures ma présentation est ailleurs après-midi on monte tout ça et tu peux revenir me voir ça me ferait plaisir d'expliquer yes vous avez vu la blog poste de who knows how long ago so that means at that point a splash page is actually not even in effect and it's also not good for your SEO if that's your home page the only place I ever see them now is on government sites so if you log in to check your tax information or whatever but that's because they know you have to come through the front door you can't get at your tax information page Donc, as far as the extra click, if you arrive on the English site and you're French, it's an extra click anyway. So it's not a, for me it's not really a necessary question of the extra click. There are ways in these plugins so that the plugin can detect the language of your browser and automatically send you to that correct language anyway, if you turn that on. But really they're just ugly. They serve a specific purpose in specific instances where you control the user experience from start to end. Like a bank for example. If you go to your login page for your bank, you have to go through the login page. And so there's a thing there that says, do you want to do this in French instead? But for normal sites, as you're saying, the front page, I would wager that probably 90% of the visitors to a particular website never even see the front page. I know we're almost out of time, but I'm just going to add one little thing. One other pitfall that I often see with multi-lingual sites, particularly WPML because you can add the language switcher to the menu, is when it goes into mobile view, so you get the hamburger menu or whatever, often it puts your language switcher in the mobile menu. Don't do that, it's horrible to try and then switch language. So do check your site when you're doing this on mobile, tablet, whatever. And check that your language switcher is still accessible, easily accessible. It should still be ideally top right corner. On a le temps pour une dernière question, last question. Deux peut-être c'est rapide. Oui. The WPML support forum. It's really good, that's where a lot of people ask their questions. You can see the replies. The WPML support is very good. They do get back to you pretty quickly and they, most of the time, are able to help resolve the issue. Sometimes it really is an incompatibility and short of going to the other plugin author and asking them to help resolve it. But usually the support forums are, I would say, solve maybe 75% of those sort of compatibility issues that I've had. And they are much better in the last year or so than prior to that. Like sometimes you'd update the plugin or WPML and it would break. And that's gotten a lot better. I think the WPML team are much more on it now. And that's the way to solve issues once you find them. But even better is try to prevent them. So I will give you this piece of advice. Whenever we look at a project that needs to be bilingual, multilingual, which is a majority of the time, we'll first decide on an approach based on a client's criteria and technical requirements. Once we decide on the approach, the second phase is going to be based on a functionality required. Do look for what kind of plugins you're going to be using to build a site and make sure those plugins are compatible and sometimes go even as far as test them before finalizing your quote to a client. To me, that's part of a technical solution build and making sure that whatever you deliver is going to work before you actually get to installing things. Y'avait une autre question? Anyone? Yeah, I'll take the question. Yeah, the question is basically what are the preferred methods for implementing a language switcher? Do we list all the options? Do we list the other options excluding the one language on which we're already on? So the thing is with the language switchers, you generally want to list the language. What we do is we list the languages, like all the languages in the language that you're going to. So if you're on the English site, you'd be listing the languages in English. If you're on the French site, you're listing all the languages in French and you're from the Mandarin site, you're listing all the languages in Mandarin. But the thing is if you're on a Mandarin site and you can't read the English, you can't understand the word English. English. So, on the French side, it would be anglais as opposed to English. So, if you're on the French side, you would see the word anglais and françaises. Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. It's the other way around. Yeah. So, regardless, we're catering to the user in their language. And by the way, no flags. Yeah, no flags. Definitely no flags. We're catering to the user in their language. So yeah, personally, my preference is always to just use the two-letter language code. So, I always have, if I'm on the English side, it'll just have FR in the corner. If I'm on the French side, it'll have EN, if I'm on Spanish, it'll have ES, sorry, no. If there is a third language, it would be, say, ES. And I just have those two-letter codes, no flags. For me, it depends on how much space I have. So, if I've got something in English that's, you know, got a logo and then I've got a menu and it's very tight, then as soon as I flip the French, it's going to be longer. So, I'll have to account for that somewhere. So, that's when the two-letter language codes come up. I never use flags, but I always show both languages, the current language and the one that I can switch to. And, like you were saying, whenever there is, so, this site I was talking about earlier, I think we're going to end up with seven languages. And each of them will be in their native language. So, you look at the drop-down, if you want to go to the Chinese part of the site, it'll be written out in the Chinese characters for the reasons that you mentioned. So, three people, three different answers, there you have it. Thank you so much, everyone, for attending. Thanks to our panelists. If you have any other questions, we'll stick around for a few minutes.