 So I'm going to start today off with just a quick poll to see the background of everyone who's here today. Maybe gain some insights on why you've joined us so I can help tailor my presentation to answer your questions better. So I'll drop the information here. I usually use iClicker in my course, but since today isn't a course, we'll use Mentimeter and you just drop this code in once you go to menti.com. So please do participate, it helps give me a better idea of where our starting point is today. First question is, which of the following best describes you? Are you interested in offering a multi-access course, but you haven't yet done it? Are you already providing one or more multi-access courses? Are you currently doing hybrid, where you're perhaps recording your lectures and allowing students to watch them on their own time? Or something else here that I haven't thought of today, feel free to share that in the chat so I can also gain some insights into what the other options are some of you are doing. For the two who have mentioned others, do you want to share what you're currently doing? I'm just interested to learn. Well, I work at the Center for Teaching, Learning and Technology, so I always wanted to encourage people to do multi-access teaching. This is Judy from CTLT. Thank you, Judy. I'm also on board and here today to help convince people to do multi-access teaching. Great, OK, so it looks like, oh, so multi-access, I suppose I should have got an introduction first, so multi-access means you're teaching in the classroom and online at the same time. Whereas a hybrid would be more if you were recording your lectures and allowing students to participate asynchronously in their own time, so multi-access at the exact same time teaching in person and online. I know it took me a really long time to get myself familiar with the different terminologies and actually I believe when I even did the survey findings I'm sharing today with students, I didn't actually know the proper term was multi-access at that time, became more aware to me in the new year. Teach through video conference in person and others at another site. Sounds very interesting. Thanks for sharing. OK, thank you. So most of you are interested today in providing a multi-access course. That's great. I'm so glad that you're here and some of us are already providing hybrid or multi-access courses. Our next question is what concerns do you have regarding multi-access course delivery? And I'll also share with you my concerns that I had before I got started. Technical issues, definitely a big one. Navigating questions, that was also a main concern for me. The extra labor involved, yep, whether students would be engaged. Yes, that's definitely in the title of my presentation today and was a concern of mine. Too busy doing everything, I believe that that answer applies to almost any poll that we complete at the university level. We are all very, very busy people. Neglecting students, yes, that's definitely concern and the equity of education. Student buy-in, complexity, workload recognition. Yeah, some some faculties are working on providing more recognition for those who are doing extra things in their teaching. But I think it's pretty variable across campus. Anything else I've missed here? Not delivering accurately. I'm not quite sure I understand that, but I'd love to learn more about your thoughts on that. Cognitive overload, it definitely did overload me a bit in the earlier stages, but I'll talk more about that today. The cognitive overload does go away once you get used to it. Well, not the cognitive load, but you get used to how to do the multi-access and everything becomes very familiar to you after a while. Great, let's go to our next question. Thank you for participating this and lots of great answers here. And then what is to gain? Both for your students as well as for yourself. How can multi-access make our lives easier and better? Reduce student stress, yeah, it's a great one. Allow flexibility, needs of a program. Inclusive, info, readily available. Accessibility seems to be the main focus here. Reduce student stress, students choose what's best for them. Yeah, that's a great bonus. Distributed programs, I'm not quite sure what that one means, but I'd be interested to learn more. The option to record your lectures, yeah. Though you can also do it if you're not doing multi-access, but you certainly can as well if you are. Great, so lots of accessibility and flexibility for both us and students here. Thank you so much for participating. Now, let's get into my presentation today. So the title of what I'm talking about, which you most likely already know because you've registered, is the impact of multi-access delivery on student learning and their sense of belonging to the course community. My name is Patricia Hinkston. I am an assistant professor of teaching in food science which is in the faculty of land and food systems. And I teach five courses. Only one of them is a lecture-based course. So that's what I'll be talking about today. The other four courses are laboratory courses. And whenever possible, I do do multi-access for them as well, but it's limited to some introductory lectures because most of the time we're doing hands-on applied learning in class. So my personal motivation for wanting to do multi-access in my course, just first this course that I'm speaking of is FNH 313 Food Microbiology. It is offered Monday, Wednesday, Friday in the 50-minute time slot and it has an enrollment of 200 students. And this is the maximum capacity. I still have more students wanting into the course. And I think next year I'm going to open it up more based on what I've learned about multi-access this past year. So my main motivator was I looked at the academic calendar and I saw that I was assigned a 200-person room for 200 students. And my first thought was I was picturing students coming in late, trying to squeeze past all the other students into the middle of the rows. And I thought this is just going to be a disaster. And I also wanted to make participation mandatory for the course, meaning that all students would always need to attend. And this was simply too tight of a fit. So at this point I did go to our IT within the faculty and I was like, let's do multi-access. What do I need to know? Teach me how to do this. I also wanted to prevent students from commuting to UBC five days a week. Monday, Wednesday, Friday courses is a lot. And if you don't have any other classes on a Monday or a Friday, it's a long commute for some students. It's also a long commute for myself. It's about an hour and a half each way. So I knew that multi-access would also give me the flexibility to sometimes teach from home if I needed to. I also knew that we still had COVID amongst us and many other flues. And this course was taught in the fall term. So I was anticipating a lot of students being sick. I didn't want them to have to come to class sick, but I also didn't want them to miss out on learning. And I also had my son in daycare for the first time in the fall. And I knew that he was going to get sick and probably me and also wanted the flexibility for myself. And then lastly, as I mentioned earlier, I had a 10% participation grade, but I really wanted students to be able to participate as much as possible. And that was a lot more feasible if I was going to do multi-access. So my course structure students could choose. Do they want to attend class in person or virtually? The 10% participation grade, the way I graded it is that students had to answer 80% of eye clicker questions to gain the full 10%. This allowed them to miss a few classes if they really weren't feeling well enough to learn and attend that day, as well as any other technical issues that may have come up and then it wouldn't impact their grade. And I found that the 80% cutoff worked really well. Sorry, I clicked on the chat and now it's blocking my slides. Next up is I made the lecture, I recorded my lectures and I made them available on Canvas after every class. And I had a Piazza discussion board and I'm a big fan of Piazza because it allows students to answer questions anonymously. And I find that students ask a lot more questions when their name is not attached to it. So if you haven't tried out Piazza, I do encourage you to give it a chance. It does integrate fully into Canvas. So it's really easy to use and the students are quite familiar with it as well from other courses. And for my Piazza discussion board, I gave a 1% bonus mark to the 10 students who answered the most questions. And I'll come back to the Piazza discussion board later in this presentation, but this bonus mark was highly effective in encouraging students to learn from one another and answer each other's questions. And this was shown to contribute largely to the sense of community in the course that I'll discuss later on. I had four quizzes, three discussion posts and three assignments in the course. I'm not a personal fan of midterms because they're all in the same week and it stresses students out a great deal. So I like to space out quizzes instead. They get multiple attempts on the quizzes and I take the highest score. And I had a final exam that was meant to be online but proctored in person, but we actually happened to have that snow day in the fall on my final exam date. But since my exam was already built in Canvas, I was able to pivot online really quickly and still hold the exam, which is really nice. So just some background information there on my course structure if you're interested. Now my multi-access setup, some instructors have a camera, follow them around and the students see the screen and you, but my personal preference was simply what you're seeing now but minus my face. The angle of my laptop on the table while I was teaching was not a very nice angle of my face for students to look at. So at the beginning of the course, I made the decision to not have my camera on and it also allowed students to see the full PowerPoint slides when attending virtually. I monitored the Zoom chat myself. I know some instructors prefer to have a TA, read the questions out to them, but for myself, I just felt more comfortable doing that myself and seeing how many questions were coming in and deciding when I wanted to pause to answer those questions. Both groups of students had to answer the iClicker questions, whether they were in-person or attending virtually and both students were also engaged in answering discussion questions posed in class that iClicker was not used for. I made sure that I took answers from both the online learners and the in-person learners to help bring the whole class together. Now my initial concerns, just like all of you shared with me today is that the virtual learners wouldn't feel like they'd be part of the course community and we know there's literature that supports that peer-to-peer interactions help improve student learning. I was also worried that I would struggle taking the questions over Zoom and in-person and it wouldn't be a smooth transition for the students and may impact their learning. I also didn't know how to ensure equal learning experiences in both environments. I sort of hoped for the best this year and we're all always worried our virtual learners less engaged. It certainly is easier to do other things when there's no one watching you. And then technological issues, we all have this concern if you forget to record a lecture or the internet is down and I did come across some of these that I'll discuss later. So my study design, it wasn't an intentional study. What I did was after doing a year of multi-access, I wanted to assess how it was working for the students to see whether I wanted to do it again this year. So the questions I'm sharing with you today came from just my own interest in how the students liked it and how it was impacting their learning. I had the students answer the questions in class anonymously using iClicker that they were already familiar with. They were told that it wasn't going to contribute towards their 10% participation grade. And I also told them that I may be sharing the data in the future in a scientific manner. 96% of my students completed the questions. So 192 out of the 200 and I really love that because now I can make some strong conclusions that I have assessed almost my entire class's thoughts on multi-access learning. And I later shared the results with the students in the form of an abstract that I submitted for a conference. So first up, how did students choose to attend my class? So 41% of them said that they mostly attended virtually, 15% said they mostly attended in-person and 43% said they did about a half and half split of virtual and in-person. So overall, this means that 85% of students frequently utilize the online option, which is pretty incredible to know that they really found this very valuable. And I was actually surprised also to see that only 15% of students routinely attended class in-person. From my own observation, I would say at any given time in the course about half of my class attended in-person. So about a hundred students were always in the classroom and I always had about a hundred students on Zoom. So while only 15% routinely attended in-person, the other 43% would sometimes be in-person and sometimes online. And then I asked the students, did the mode of delivery impact their learning? And 31% said yes, they found that in-person attendance was more effective for their learning. While 28% said yes, virtual learning was more effective for them and 40% reported that there was no difference. So I was quite surprised to see just how close these values were for students who preferred or found that in-person was more effective and those who found that virtual is more effective. So to me, this means that students at least self-report that they learn better virtually, while others learn better in-person. And by allowing multi-access delivery, we can better suit students' learning preferences to the win-win. Then I was curious, did the multi-access delivery disrupt learning and to what extent? So I asked students to what extent they negatively impacted their learning, 75 or 65% said it never impacted their learning, 24% said it rarely impacted their learning and 9% said sometimes. I had often and always as options as well, but no students selected those. In hindsight, I wish that I had asked what was contributing to this 9% of sometimes disruptive to learning. But what I can tell you from what I witnessed while teaching that term is one time you may recall from your own courses that the internet was down at UBC and I could not connect to my virtual learners at all. And at the time, I wasn't sure if it was just me. I didn't know it was a campus-wide issue. So I spent quite a bit of time, maybe 15 minutes of my 50-minute class trying to get my online learners present and it just wasn't happening. So I ended up recording the lecture and dismissing the iClicker grades for that class. And I believe any other things contributing to this 9% may be me taking questions from the chat and looking through it to see where the questions are. So those are just my own thoughts on what students might have thought sometimes negatively impacted their learning. Now onto whether the virtual learners felt like they were part of the course community. So when I asked them, 79% of them said, yes, I do feel like part of the course community. 9% said no and the remaining said not applicable to them. So when I asked the same question to the entire class at a different time, 70% said that they felt like they were part of the course community. The class as a whole 70% said yes, but amongst the virtual learners, 79% said yes. So a slightly higher may indicate that the virtual learners could have felt an even higher sense of belonging to the course than the in-person learners. But most importantly to me is just the fact that they still did feel like they were part of the course. So then I asked them what aspects of the course contributed to your sense of community. And I did a qualitative analysis so that I could rank their responses. And the number one thing aspect of the course that they said made them feel like they belonged to a sense of community was my online discussion platform, Yusa Piazza. And many students said it was the most active discussion board that they've seen in any of their courses. So I expect that this is likely due to the 1% bonus mark that I offered at the beginning of term to those top 10 students. So if you're looking to have an active discussion board such as this, perhaps consider adding a small bonus mark to it. Second was the use of iClicker questions prompted during lectures and specifically the icebreaker questions that I do at the start of each class. And I'll share these on the next slide and talk more about them then. Third was the Zoom chat. So 85% of students participated online at some point and they liked talking in the chat. And most of the time it was about the course content I would share a funny story about food poisoning since it's a food microbiology course. If food poisoning can be funny, I think so. And the students would be laughing and have some funny comments to say about that and they really liked sharing those comments in the chat. Fourth, I wasn't quite expecting was my role that I played in the course community. And so many students comment that my engagement with both groups is what really helped bring everything together and feel like a complete course community despite the class being divided between in-person and virtual. And then lastly, I also was not expecting this response is that students found that the assignments helped create a sense of course community because they were working together on the assignments. Now the assignments were meant to be individual. So I found it very interesting to learn that they did like working on them together and that's something that I'll consider in the future with how I design my assignments. If it's all right, I'll just take questions at the very end if that's okay. I'm almost there and we can have a discussion and I'm happy to answer everything then. So some examples of icebreaker questions. So at the beginning of each class, I mainly do it to help the students also make sure that their eye clicker is working properly. I would have some sort of fun question. If I was starting a new unit, the fun question would always serve as a pre-assessment of students' knowledge starting that unit. And if I was continuing on a unit, I would ask something just random that is fun for them to answer. So for example, when we started our fermentation unit, I asked the students, what are your favorite fermented foods? Just to get everyone talking about fermented foods before the class started. And I always shared something about myself as well with these questions to help them students feel more connected to me. So I shared that I love wine. I'm sure many of you here also love wine. And I showed pictures of my husband and my honeymoon to Greece where we went wine tasting. And then I do a word cloud of the students responses of their favorite fermented foods. When we did food spoilage, I said, what's a food item that's recently spoiled in your fridge? And I shared with the students that I'm always buying the large carton of feta and it almost always spoils in my fridge before I get through it. So common spoilage item in my own fridge. On days that I wasn't starting a new unit, I just asked, do you like Halloween Booyah or not for me? Because I personally am not a Halloween fan and turns out several of my students weren't either. And one day I taught on my birthday and I asked the students, do you have a fun birthday tradition? And if not, what do you like to do on your birthday? So just some fun questions. I know they're not necessarily academic related but the students really love it and it helps bring the class together as a whole. Now a question that I see come up a lot is do students watch lecture recordings? And I am here today to tell you, yes, they absolutely do watch your lecture recordings. And if you're interested to find this out for yourself, you can go to your Zoom settings in the web browser, not the desktop version. And you can go to your recordings there and it'll show you how many times your lectures have been watched. So on average, my lectures were watched 144 times and a reminder, I have 200 students. So that's almost most of the class rewatching the lectures. And sometimes I have up to a peak of 269 times a particular lecture was rewatched. And without sound like I'm bragging, I just want to reassure you that I am not a bad teacher and the students are not watching my lectures because they're confused out of their minds and have no idea what's going on. My course is being very highly rated by the students and they really enjoy it and say that it has helped them learn a great deal. So what they do say in my student evaluations as if they really appreciated the opportunity to review lectures when preparing for assessments. So whenever an assignment or a quiz was coming up, they would rewatch the parts of the lecture that they found more challenging until they could finally understand the concepts. So there definitely is value in recording and posting your lectures for students to rewatch. And also it does cut down on your office hours times. I barely had any students who were attending office hours this term, even though I constantly offered it to them because they said between Piazza and the recordings, they could get their questions answered. And Dean, I just I'll quickly answer that. I don't have interactive tasks in the recorded lectures, but that is something interesting that could be done if you wanted to have an asynchronous class that still use some polling or things throughout the lecture. So that'd be interesting to investigate. Now opportunities for enhanced learning that multi-access provides is the students don't have to miss class if they're ill or for other reasons. The instructor doesn't have to cancel class due to illness unless you're really ill of course, but if you just have a cold and you don't wanna be coughing on people but you still feel well enough to speak, you can opt to teach a specific class just fully virtually. And the students are already familiar with attending virtually, so it's a pretty easy transition for them. Students who don't feel comfortable asking questions in person reported that they actually prefer to attend virtually so that they can ask their questions during lecture using the chat box. So that's an opportunity for enhanced learning for those students. And the 10% participation grade, I'll note that students did not have to get the right answers to my iClicker questions at all. They just needed to simply participate in answering the questions. And this was a strong motivators for students to attend and engage with the lecture. So I almost had a full attendance. I'd say at least 192 students or more attending each of my lectures throughout the term. Now the challenges, the initial learning curve that we're all worried about does for me, it took about three to four lectures. So one to two weeks of getting used to the technology and on the first day that I did it, I had our IT person come and help me just to make sure that everything went smoothly. And then after that, I was on my own. I did make a couple of mistakes here and there, but I was able to figure it out within a short period of time. And then after that, it was just very easy. So after the first week, it got much, much easier. Keeping up with the Zoom chat was a challenge, mainly because the students were having their own little conversations on there. So I had to read through that a bit or scan through to find out where the questions were. And I would answer the questions maybe every four to five slides. I'd take a short break and check to see if any questions had come into the Zoom chat box. One thing I found more difficult than I thought I would is not using my pointer. I love to turn around and point to graphs using my red laser pointer, but I had to switch to using my mouse so that the students on Zoom could follow along. And I didn't even realize this at first. I was just using the pointer and then the students on Zoom reminded me, we don't know what you're pointing at. So once I had to start staying in front of my screen so that I could use my mouse, it took away my ability to move around in the classroom. And that's, I really do like to move around and talk to different people in the class. So that was a bit of a challenge to me, but I talked to students and they really didn't seem to think that it had any impact on their learning. They were perfectly fine with me standing more still at the podium so that I could see the Zoom chat box and use my mouse to highlight graphs. So the students didn't mind as much as I did, but I'm used to walking around. And then as I mentioned, the internet was down just once in the term, but that's the only real technical issue I had besides trying to share a video in person and over Zoom and the Zoom students couldn't hear my sound because I had the wrong speaker selected on my Zoom. So that was still something that I had to learn and become a little bit better at is sharing videos in person and over Zoom. My personal tips for success of things that I felt went really well and helped me this year is to engage with students in the Zoom room while waiting for the in-person students to settle in class. There's usually about five minutes there where students are coming in and getting their laptops out and I usually use that as an opportunity to check in with my virtual learners. How are you doing? Who has exams this week? What did you do on the weekend? And just have little conversations with them in the chat box. I repeated any questions asked in-person and virtually so that all students could hear and students reported that this also helped contribute to the sense of course community. Make sure that your Zoom students participate in answering questions that you post to the class, not necessarily I clicker, but just open-ended questions. Make sure that you're looking at the chat box to see that those students' answers are being heard by the class as well. I always told my Zoom attendees that if I didn't get around to answering your question or I missed it somehow, just post it to the Piazza Discussion Board after class and I'll answer it there afterwards. So this made sure that all students' questions got answered. Use some sort of polling software if you're gonna do multi-access. This is just an easy way to engage both groups at the same time and make it so they're not just listening to you talk for the full 50 minutes. So I liked iClicker because it integrated into Canvas and allowed me to score students' participation, whereas Mentimeter that I use today doesn't have that capability. And make class participation part of your course grade because this is a big concern with online learning is it's easy for students to just tap out and not attend lectures. So I do find that having some sort of class participation grade keeps them accountable to attending in-person or virtually. And building in that 20% buffer to accommodate both technical issues or anything health-related is really, really helpful for the students. So in summary today, thank you for listening this far is multi-access delivery appeared to have little to no negative impacts on student learning or their sense of belonging to the course community. Some students actually reported learning better virtually such as things as being able to ask questions in the chat box and follow along more closely with the PowerPoint slides. Virtual learners reported a higher sense of belonging to the course community with many students saying they enjoyed the Zoom chat box to interact with each other. And students did watch recorded lectures to help them enhance their own learning. So overall, I largely found that the pros of multi-access delivery far outweighed the cons. And now I'm becoming an advocate to try to convince more instructors to adapt this approach. I know the students had even said that to me, like we really wish more instructors would offer the opportunity to participate virtually or in-person. It's just so, so helpful for them. So thank you. And I will look at your questions. Sorry to Jeanette for not addressing it sooner is did the in-person students also join the Zoom classroom in order to read, participate in the Zoom chat? I don't know for sure, but I have offered this as a possibility to students. I said, if you're too afraid to ask questions during class, feel free to join the Zoom room and ask your questions through there. So I don't know for sure, but it is a possibility that I offered to them. And one thing I'll also note in case it's relevant to some of you is having a scheduled classroom makes it really easy if you are sick and you can't teach in-person that day. The students still have a quiet space that they can come to to attend your lectures online. So whenever I had to go solely virtual, I would send the students a reminder in the morning saying bring some headphones with you, the classrooms available, go to the classroom, participate there, and you'll meet some of your other classmates there as well. And most students who were on campus did take up that offer. So it's nice for them to still have a classroom to go to because otherwise it could be pretty loud in other places on campus to participate in a virtual class. Digital pointer, I have heard about digital pointers. So I'm interested to try them out perhaps next year. Thank you for sharing a link. Are there any other questions that I could help address or comments? Feel free to unmic or type in the chat box. Great, I was wondering from a scheduling standpoint, were the students that were choosing to attend virtually, did they have like a separate section that they were enrolling in or was it strictly through your regular course section that they opted in? Yeah, just the regular course section. So for the next year where you're saying like 200 cap, you wanna extend that to allow more people to participate, is it an option on your campus to say have another section that's just virtual to allow more students on the waitlist to join? That's a great question. And I suppose that's something I could look into the future is offering solely virtual section for some students. At the moment I haven't and the reason I'm open to increasing is I found out that I was given a 250 student room but I know that only a hundred students routinely attended class. So I'm picturing my room feeling very empty next year and I do have a waiting list of students who wanna take the course. So I am keen now to increase my enrollment now that I have more space to do so. I can certainly share the app stock with you. Right now I don't have a link that I can share. I just have like a PDF that I can place somewhere. Why is my own hand functioning up? How did I get my own raised hand? I think it did it automatically. You did something with your hand and automatically raised it. It detected, thank you. Oh yes, I have recognized gestures clicked on here. How do I get my gesture to go away? Is there a way I can use to share the app stock? Other reactions, reactions can lower hand. It's funny when I'm a participant I can always see them but when I'm, here we go, there we go. Judy? Yes, I have a question because you mentioned that you use PSA and student like to ask questions there because okay I wear multiple hats so I also teach. So I teach a virtual, I offer synchronized sessions during when I teach a virtually and I find some students would like to ask, like I find it sometimes frustrating that they can, because I pay attention in the chat but they don't ask the question in chat, they ask the question in PSA. So, and I would only find out a couple of hours later and I'm like, oh, there was a good moment that I can actually be response to the question. So how does your students use, how do you distinguish the difference and do you tell your students that some questions is better asked during when you were meeting together or some question that is better asked on PSA? Yeah, that's a great point. I have at times asked students if they ask a question that's kind of lengthy or is hard for me to, I don't wanna take too much of my class time answering, I'll say please post it to Piazza and I'll answer it later today. I don't know if I've witnessed where the students have asked, if they ask a question on Piazza that I think would be great to ask in class, I'll usually mention it in the next class. So I'll start off my next lecture with I had these questions on Piazza and I just wanna make sure that everybody saw it or here's my answer, cause I think it's important. Well, thank you. I think that's right, role modeling or just tell the students, right? Like this is called, it's an open communication with students. Next time I'll do that, thanks. I am interested in maybe using a program like Slido where you can anonymously ask questions during class but I would be nervous about taking on an extra thing for me to do while lecturing. So if I was to do that, I would have a TA help out for sure but Slido's another program where people can ask questions during class and then people, if other people have the same question they can basically give a thumbs up to that question and it adds more votes to it. So you can see that it really is a question that many students have. Bean, if you wanna privately share your email with me I'm happy to send you my abstract and that goes for anyone else who would like to see it as well. I'm just not sure how to easily share it right here. We have a question in the chat, Patricia. Oh, did I miss one? I've said, I think just steps here. What are your thoughts on moving to virtual only delivery? Do you think there are any advantages to this over multi-access? I personally from my course would not move to virtual only because students are on campus for other in-person courses and as I recently mentioned it can be really hard to find a quiet place to participate in a virtual class on campus when it's really, really busy. So by having it multi-access it guarantees there's always a classroom that the students can go to to participate in the course. So yeah, and some students 15% routinely always attended my in-person classes and I wanna keep that available to them as well. So for now, I plan to only to keep with multi-access. I do think if someone wanted to run a second version of the course like another instructor teach it they could offer a solely virtual one but for me personally I'm going to keep it multi-access. If you're interested and you're a little scared I would say just start off. The main thing first is that is just to simply have your Zoom open while you're teaching and post your Zoom link somewhere on your Canvas page and let students participate and as you get more familiar you can start adding in technology like iClicker or Slido and start to develop your course a bit more that way for student engagement but just start small and see how you feel and how you can manage it. Nope, five more, we have some other. Do you, oh, there we go. Do you think there's a critical number of students necessary for multi-access to be successful? This is a question I was talking to with a colleague the other day as well because having an empty room is not a great way to teach. So that's why I know for me with 200 students it was a good choice. I would have concerns about anything smaller than 50 and the learning experience because the students I think will feel more divided when there's fewer of them. So I'm not an expert in that by any means but my own personal experience I would say less than 50 and I might choose to do solely in person or online. Sorry, I'm just gonna speak up, I have my hand raised but I'm not sure. I was wondering if you had any pushback from your university for recording lectures because I know some universities are highly discouraging it because they want students to attend in person. Oh, I haven't heard so far what I've heard is people promoting to record them for student learning but does anyone know does UBC have any pushback with us recording our lectures? I haven't heard any. My department, you kind of have to request the permission from the dean and yeah, in my personal opinion it hasn't been overly encouraged but it is something I like to do but it's been basically me having to request that. So yeah, I was just wondering your experience on it. It's interesting to hear perspectives from different departments. Judy, did you have something to add to that? No, I think at UBC we are more encouraging to record it mainly for diversity and just to be inclusive of all the students that are different needs. No, like in person teaching is still encouraged here at UBC but recording is also encouraged. I'm gonna jump back to William's question here because I realized I missed the second half is would Piazza be unsuccessful with less students? And my answer to that is no, Piazza is always successful regardless of the size of your class. I use Piazza for my 25 and 30 student classes and they also love it and it's also very, very active. So just the ability to ask and answer questions anonymously takes away the fear and really opens student up to learning from one another and I go in and I endorse students' answers and I'll correct things that I see that are wrong but most of the time their answers are correct and they're referring students to my slides like C slides three of lesson four and then I don't have to do it. So it takes a lot of work away from me to have Piazza and to me it's just a win-win for the students and myself. I even know for myself if I was offered the opportunity to ask a question anonymously versus in a Zoom chat with my name attached to it I'm way more open to sharing my questions anonymously. I think we can all relate to that. Any other remaining questions? Am I missing any hands? Thanks again for joining me. I was delighted to have 23 to 25 people today and I will, sorry about my technological, I may be good at some things but I will share my abstract with those who have requested right after today this session. You're all very welcome. Thank you so much.