 Welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show. We're really thrilled you're here today Because we're going to be talking about something really important that we all are involved with and sometimes it makes us uncomfortable To talk about it. Sometimes we recognize it or we think we recognize it, but do we? Our new best friend Anthony Sartori, the director and founder of Evolving Minds It's going to talk to us today about protecting staff from burnout And I think a lot of us are going to be taking notes Anthony for ourselves Okay, what do we do so that we're not? Dealing with this so before we get going into a deeper conversation with Anthony I just want to remind everyone that I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy Here at ransom the nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven group is off today. She'll be rejoining us tomorrow Again, we are here today because we have these amazing Sponsors and they include bloom rang American nonprofit Academy your part-time controller Nonprofit thought leader fundraising Academy at National University. They have some really cool ads that are out Nationally, you've got it if you check them if you see them you got to check them out Really beautiful beautiful marketing that they're doing of course our friends over at staffing boutique nonprofit nerd and nonprofit Tuck-tuck. These are the folks that join us day in and day out You know tomorrow Anthony. I think is our 800th episode Amazing, I know it is amazing and I don't even I don't think we're doing well I know we're not doing anything other than maybe saying something but We have a lot of archive, right? We have a ton of stuff going on So if you don't join us live, you can find us on all these streaming Broadcast platforms you can get us on podcast if you like more of an audio experience But the super cool sexy thing is our new app that Our executive producer Kevin Pace created with his team at the American nonprofit Academy You can scan this QR code and then be Notified with a gentle update of what has gone on in the day. It's a super cool tool And we're really really excited that we have been able to launch this so again, thank you to Kevin Hey Anthony Sartori executive director founder of Evolving Minds How did you start this organization and why? Oof well Big question. It is it it is it throws me back a few years So actually yesterday May 15th was our three-year anniversary as a nonprofit, which is really exciting Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. We we started in May of 2020 so right when the pandemic was happening I Worked in a grocery store a part-time while I was building Evolving Minds So I got to be on the front lines be an essential worker and at the same time building Evolving Minds into where it is now And throughout that time we focused working with educators. So throughout the pandemic We were we had 20 to 30 educators for eight weeks at a time building community and connection and Then we started to work in the grocery store. So the same store that I worked in we built a Workplace mental health program for the grocery store employees And from there, it's really been workplace mental health. That's our main focus We've you know really done a lot of work in the nonprofit space, which is you know, a big reason why I'm here to Talk today about You know, it's so interesting. I I am fascinated by folks that looked at the pandemic the global health pandemic and Found a reason to start something new. I mean The nonprofit shows that way we started, you know at the dawn of the of the outbreak because We couldn't go anywhere. And so we we were like, well, we need to keep Community our community going and so it was very very Super sketchy in the beginning and some might argue there are days when it is still sketchy It's fascinating to me to meet people who leaned in and found opportunity in a time of chaos and it sounds to me Like that's something that you've done and actually on the topic of chaos, if you will So first things first, I've got to ask you how do we as leaders and and folks in our in our sector? The beloved work that we do yeah for nonprofits. How do we recognize? Signs of this it seems to me like It's it's like a one-and-done. It's like right we confront it when everybody's left the building or it's like a bad situation Right, how can we recognize that we're going in that direction? Yeah, so I think one of the things you just mentioned kind of preventing a one-and-done by Thinking about long-term strategy. What is our burnout prevention strategy if we don't have one? It's often a sign that there will be burnout It's really it's so it's actually looking at what's going on Can you give us some like maybe some physical things that we could recommend like our people calling in? I think we're crabby are they I mean yeah, what are yeah things that we might see in our organization? Sure, so I think there's when I think about burnout I think about the individual lens and then I also think about culture so the systems the culture in place how the Organization is operating so at the individual level when I'm experiencing burnout. It's usually cynicism just a sense of Anger frustration Resentment at the world at large the people I'm working with the people in my sector the nonprofit space I might be really feeling like you said kind of crabby towards them As well as fatigue, I think fatigue and exhaustion Especially during the workday but when you get home if you're not able to recharge and rejuvenate and That fatigue is just If it becomes chronic then that can be a huge sign of of burning out and also like I communicate a lot with nonprofit professionals via Email, you know in trainings and persons and I hear the language that we're using to describe work and I just want to highlight a few words because The language that we're using is a can generate a sense of awareness about what our work culture is look like and So words I hear often our triage slammed Drowning underwater So those those are very violent, you know words and that just tells us about That workspace and what's going on there? Yeah, I mean those are I Would almost say those are words of desperation Yeah, they're they're desperate and and they don't have an upside. They don't seem like You can get beyond it or get around it And so it's a really interesting thing that you would You would bring language into this It's that's fascinating because I don't know if that's something I would have Overtly looked at So I that's fascinating to me that really really is you know in in terms of this piece of it Recognizing it stepping back and saying, okay. Yeah, we got a problem Talk to us about what that problem implies. I mean, what are some of the impacts? Yeah real situation Yeah So that the culture piece to can really contribute to a sense of burnout and lead to I think this one statistic that was just released by Mindshare partners and the US Surgeon General has released So much critical information about workplace mental health But I think this statistic is very important 84% of workplace conditions have contributed to at least one mental health challenge So there's a strong link between our work our work systems and how they're causing harm in terms of Increasing depression anxiety stress trauma It's making it worse, but it's also creating, you know, new conditions within people that May have not presented itself before those those work environments Okay, so then you use the word work environment so many of us In the for-profit and non-profit sector are still working from home or maybe Maybe ratcheted up and using a code working space I mean, how does that factor in because that's a different cultural issue in itself, which I think we don't We're just trying to figure this out Yeah, well, I actually have a quote here that I want to share which came from the Dr Morthy the the US Surgeon General just released the our epidemic of loneliness and isolation report that just came out And I think this speaks to the moment that we're living in because there are a lot of hybrid virtual in person You know, I've seen them all at this point workplace environments And there's one line in his report that I think is just striking and its social connection Is a fundamental human need as essential to survival as food water and shelter So in these virtual environments When we're engaged in a productivity mindset completing tasks We there isn't necessarily that time and space to build community or connection and that can be a huge Loss It's a really interesting thing and and I think that Um The jury's out You know, I mean I feel as though during the pandemic people were like, yeah, I want to stay at home because It's safe and I'm frightened and you know, my kids are at home or my parents are at home, whatever But now that things are loosening up a little I've got to wonder if people aren't going to be saying yeah, I need To go somewhere. I'm not as fearful And I I realize I miss that um Even just you know talking to women who say I miss getting dressed getting my hair done getting my makeup on Getting out of my sweats Or fuzzy slippers. So what do you see about that? I mean, do you see that we're in this piece of maybe I don't want to use the word reckoning but a redefinition Yeah, I think So there There's culture change that's taking place in the workplace. There's a realignment and a reimagining our work is reimagining the workplace and what's possible and What's the good news in terms of a lot of the hopelessness that we experience and feel on a day to day basis is that over the majority of Working adults, I believe it's 81 percent and this was a study done by the american psychological association Are looking for workplaces that support mental health. So there's just been a giant culture change and workplace and mental health in the workplace is now Becoming more and more common but also a priority Interesting and you know where that would have been such a taboo uh topic and and and perceived as a problem As opposed to maybe a benefit or of a core value Really interesting really really interesting. Well things are changing and and you know We we need to look at this and wonder how We are changing and what that does look like and I'd really like to spend some time on something that you mentioned and And and get you to amplify this concept about connection and community Why is that? Why do you think that that is Part of the solution or approach to making a healthier workplace because let's face it You know when we lose our teams and our staff We can't do our work and we can't serve our mission vision and values So in the nonprofit sector, this is a huge deal Talk to us about this connection and community impact Yeah, so for me, I feel like a team is like a miracle It's like a beautiful thing when people come together and they you know, they work together on a cause or a mission And The I think the unfortunate truth is that social relationships and belonging aren't valued or prioritized in the workplace they might be seen as soft skills or Fun or a nice activity But they are absolutely critical to the mission building trust building empathy listening creating spaces of Where people feel appreciated heard and validated it's really The I I I argue the most important thing an organization could be doing because People are your greatest asset. You know, you're you're the working people that you work with And so what that looks like for evolving minds and what we do with organizations is we build out a culture building meeting So 20 minutes Once a week usually it's in the all all staff meeting or departmental team meetings 20 minutes and then we Bring in work culture skills Community building skills connection based skills skills that foster Meaningful relationships. So for example, I'll kind of Illustrate what it looks like you're with your team. You're you're around a table, right? And there's about 15 of you and you're all sitting there and you're about to get into the work agenda Right, you're about to get into the work agenda. But first One of your team members says what are we grateful for? And so for 20 minutes people are sharing and connecting and we're using an imaginary ball As the ball goes around the space and people are sharing because people are in the virtual worlds You have to throw the imaginary ball Into the zoom screen to include them into the community space and into connect them with everyone else But then imagine if we adapted that question to what are we grateful for about each other? What are we grateful for about our mission? So I've never heard anyone say that Yeah, it's electric. It's contagious. It's it's powerful. It's transformative Okay, you just like this is a hair and fire moment for me I am stunned by that Wow, okay, so what have you seen when you ask that question? Some of my favorite, you know, I ask this question often But I also there's joy. There's goodness. There's hope inspiration peace curiosity love those are all skills that we share what I see often is Teams that haven't really carved out that time and space to validate each other Validate each other. So all of a sudden it's like a flow It's like a dam has been released and the water is just letting out and I love when someone goes around and just sees the goodness or is grateful for each person because it's just been waiting Right, there hasn't been an opportunity because to share that because you know, that might be awkward if we're just in a like a A random zoom meeting where we're focusing on specific tasks Whereas our sole purpose right now is to see You know the goodness in each other or to be grateful for each other So it becomes a it it shifts from more of like I see you For your work product to I see you as a human being and that can be really powerful Yeah, that is remarkable because I think sometimes We forget while why we are doing our work Because we get so mired in the the problems and the issues and for a lot of us. It's gritty gritty Sad work, right? So, um, this is a really interesting way to re-center on the joy and the hope And I love you also through that word in curiosity Which I think is a super powerful word and uh It leads to all sorts of amazing outcomes when we pursue that Um, these have been really fun. What are some other Ways that we can kind of you know shake things up Ooh shake things up. I like to shake things up um Well I think with there's you know, there's the gratitude. There's the joy. What brings what brings you joy so you can practice in the same way Um, where do you see goodness in the world? Oh, this is a good way to shake things up asking the team to see goodness in themselves That's usually the hardest thing Don't lead with that wait after a couple weeks or months. Oh, I do Yeah, that's a that I like that. I think that's really profound I think that's really profound and I bet That is hard It it's the hardest thing that you know And and what's really great is when we offer these skills You always have the option to pass the choice to participate or not participate. Okay So what ends up happening is someone may not feel comfortable seeing the goodness in themselves But then the ball moves around the space and other people start to take a risk and be vulnerable And that ends up inspiring them to grow Yeah, I love that. You know, it's really an interesting thing because I can see the link between Feeling appreciated and feeling valued and having merit and being part of a team When some of these things are verbalized Yeah, yeah from my from my research I've found that one of the greatest reasons why people leave is because they don't feel validated They don't feel appreciated and just the simple You know, I see you thank you Goes so long so far. Yeah. Yeah, it's so it's so powerful and you know, it seems to me like we're waiting for The ecosystem around us the clients around us the programming around us and we're not looking at ourselves and our organizations Until it's kind of too late, right? And then it seems to me like we We're having this discussion now because it's a problem Right, right versus saying wow, you know, here's an opportunity You know, one of our sponsors staffing boutique They are a boutique firm for HR just in the nonprofit sector And I've noticed that that when we have them on we're speaking more and more about These issues of how do we keep our staffs healthy? Mentally and physically and in the beginning we never talked about that, right? I mean it was like, you know Do your job or leave because there's 10 people lined up out the door that want your job now We can't find those 10 people lined up. And so we're having to think about Right, what's in what's in our midst? Um, we don't have a lot of time left and I could talk to you. Oh, wow Yeah, it's client It goes it goes by really fast, but I'd love, you know, you started it off started us off By helping us to identify How we could recognize a problem or potential problem where we're on that trajectory of Of dealing with this concept Now I'm going to ask you the other going the other direction How do we know when things are improving? Because this doesn't happen this fifth Doesn't happen overnight What you may be looking for I think one of the first things that comes to mind is Before we can improve things we we desperately have to slow down the pace of our our work the pace of our work systems They're they're they're unsustainable. Um, so when we slow down we start to we can start to identify the needs And ultimately I this may sound really simple, but when your staff is smiling Laughing and being playful You probably you're the mental health of the community is most likely improving Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah as simple as that Finding joy in that workplace, you know, I it's not too long ago when american Business really felt That if you didn't walk into the bullpen or the area over the office never you didn't have their head down and it was quiet That nothing was happening and they weren't being productive if they were Chatting or smiling or laughing or telling jokes that there was something wrong It's fascinating to me that the pendulum has swung You know and in over a period of 30 years to redefine What a half a healthy Happy and healthy workforce looks like. Yeah, it's different Yeah, no, this is the culture change that I think we talked about earlier and for me You know, it's about nourishing that people first work environment people in planet first work culture that Is a deep investment into the people and to their mental health a well-being and putting people before productivity first Yeah, it's really it's an interesting discussion and I think that We are in the middle of it because of all the things that have gone on you know in the last three four years and It seems to me we're going to be talking about this for a long long time as we get more of a perspective as we move forward You know, like you mentioned these studies. I mean my gosh for the surgeon general to come out and talk about this Yeah, it's huge. I mean it's it's an enormous thing Yeah, it it gives me a lot of hope honestly, um because For the surgeon general to say that Connection and community is a fundamental pillar of a healthy workplace is amazing. You know, it really is it gives me a lot of hope Well, even the that that conversation about the workplace is even Being aligned to health physical and mental. Yes. We think is a huge shift. I mean, yeah I I'm absolutely fascinated by it. Well, I would say that you have helped my mental health today This has been a fabulous conversation and I think that you know, we need to have you back on and review in the future kind of like where we've We're removing and how this is looking because I just feel anthony That we're in the middle of this storm and conversation and and I use the word storm and not in a pejorative way But kind of like for a lot of us. This is the first time we've talked about this openly with our teams as opposed to just Dealing with that person that comes in one day and says i'm done. I'm out of here. Yeah. Yeah Really really interesting. Well, check out anthony sartoris Evolving-mines.org. I should say evolving-mines.org. He's the executive director and founder of Evolving Mines They do some really interesting work In this space of helping our our work environments be safer more secure more productive and and really Aligning to so many of our mission vision and values for some weird reason anthony In the non-profit sector. We're so good at it's saying what we want everybody else to do but we don't always do it ourselves Yeah, it's such a good thing. Yeah, it's a paradox It really is. I mean we're like the last ones to Self reflect and say okay, you know We need to do this internally and not just for our community. So yeah really been fun having you on and And chatting with you about this again This is a topic that is only going to be more amplified and I I believe when when the surgeon general comes out like that it gives Permission and interest to so many other types of businesses to start talking about this So I feel like it's just the the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, you know Really do it's going to be a lot of fun. Hey everybody again. I'm julia patrick CEO of the american non-profit academy chariot ranson my co-host will be back with us tomorrow She's out today conducting a training. So we'll have her back Again, we have these amazing sponsors most of these folks who've been with us From day one and they include bloomering american non-profit academy your part-time controller non-profit thought leader fundraising academies fundraising academy at national university staffing boutique non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk These are the folks that join us day in and day out to really Help us have conversations like we've had today with anthony which has been riveting. I've so Enjoyed this. Thank you anthony. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. It's been a lot of fun Hey everybody, you know, we we have this mantra that we use at the end of every show And we pretty much I think we've done it from the very first broadcast But today when I say it it I hear it a little differently And because of talking about mental health and our own physical well well-being And like I say every day I plead with you Just stay well So you can do well See you back here tomorrow anthony you made my day buddy. Thank you