 Today, we're going to talk about George Santos. Now, if you're into bingo and the behavior panel bingo, get your card out because you're going to run the card on this one. It's going to be unbelievable. What's going on here? Greg, tell us about the videos we're going to watch. Yeah, this is simple. This is Pierce Morgan brought in one of the most renowned liars in a while. This is George Santos who was elected to the third congressional district of New York. And so he's in the House of Representatives and he has been scandal after scandal after scandal. You may as well be completely honest now. Of course. Because I don't say there's any upside in continuing to fuel the media narrative that you're this terrible liar, right? So, you know, I'm very... Listen, I don't have a horse in the race. I'm not an American citizen. You're not my congressman. You don't serve me. It's not my hard-earned cash going on supporting you. So, in that sense, I'm slightly detached from this. All I can say is that in the U.K., we're aware of you because there's been this constant running theme now for months on end that you tell a lot of whoppers, as we would call it, in the U.K. And so I think it's a good chance, Congressman, to just try and work out where the truth lies. Because why not? There's a claim that you said you attended the Horace Mann School in the Bronx, New York, during your first years of high school, but had to leave in your senior year because your parents fell on hard times in 2008. Is that true? Did you attend that school? I attended it for a brief period of time and then went back to the public school system and then dropped out of the public school system and attained a GED. It was very truthful of not completing high school due to financial difficulties. I mean, I suppose for the school told CNN there's no record of you ever attending. Why would that be? I challenge to see what name they're looking under. If you look at my entire history of education, it was not under the name George Santo. What name did you attend that school? A variation. It was either George DeVolder or Anthony DeVolder. I wouldn't know. I was a minor. I don't know which way. CNN, I believe, checked all the variants of the names that you've used and there was no record the school could find of you ever attending. I was there for six months of ninth grade. In what year would that have been? 2004. So for six months you were indisputably at the Horace Mann School? And then moved into the public system and then in 2006 I attained a GED due to just... Why would the school not be able to find a record of you ever attending? I don't know. What name should they be looking for? I would say George DeVolder. That's how it's on my GED certificate. You got on the George DeVolder, Anthony DeVolder? Officially the only two names I've ever used on documentation has been George DeVolder or George Santos. So there should be a record of one of those at that school? Of course. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I'll try to be short on this one. This is just... there's so much. I'll fill your bingo card in my first video if we're not careful. He starts off with a pitch change. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You hear his voice change when he goes at, of course, when he says, of course, he immediately goes into something I would refer to as sacred space where he puts his hands together. That gives him distance. That gives him a barrier and then he mills his fingers and thumbs. That's an adapter to make that space comfortable. It's a powerful tool. However, Joe Navarro says when you're steepling or have your hands closed and you use your thumbs, you're confident when you don't use your thumbs, you're not. So there's no confidence in him when we see this. Scott, I'm going to leave one out, but if you don't say it, I'm going to have to bring it up when it comes because it's one of yours and it's such a beautiful example of it. When he's asked, why not clear up these problems he purses his lips? Sometimes people point with their lips in some cultures. It's disapproval in most of ours. Now let's talk about the horseman school. If he went to horseman school, he went to the horseman school for the academically delayed and he failed math because he tells us in here what year he was born in 1988. He says he was in the ninth grade and he was 16 years old. I don't know that horseman school takes 16 year old ninth graders every day, but maybe I'm wrong and we'll hear his math screw up as he goes through. And you see him try to do math, try to do something in there, but I don't think that this guy went there and I think he's just wherever. Also watch his blink rate increase and go through the roof when he's poked about horseman. And then his chin drop, his respiration rises and it gets shallow. He chaffs and redirects beautifully. When you ask how this guy got away with all this, he is one of the most elegant chaff and redirect guys I've seen because he smoothly doesn't. He doesn't do it in a big fashion. He finds a small topic that will take him off and runs down it. Then he gets that GED thing. It's a beautiful way, but Pierce Morgan is a pretty damn good interviewer and he asks the hardest question and that's why. Why is hard? And then he goes, but the only name he didn't use is Vinny is in my cousin Vinny because he's using the my cousin Vinny method of delaying the judge from finding out he's not an attorney. He just gives extra names and extra names and extra names. Everything I see here, I think the only time I see him do anything that looks reasonable in that and guys, I'm just going to knock this off because I'm going to keep going. There's a ton in here, but he does do the Joan of Oro thumbs up when he says that. When he says I was under a different name because he thinks he's got it and he doesn't allow him to get away with it. He just nails him down. Mark, what do you get? Yeah. Well, look, Pierce Morgan can be a real pain sometimes, but here he's an absolute delight throughout all of this. Love him dearly throughout all of this great target for him. So, Pierce, great, great use of the idea of the Whopper, which is very colloquial for the UK. Be lovely further on. He uses the idea of telling pork pies or porkies, which is cockney rhyming slang for pork pie lie. Just just wanted you to know that, you know. So you've got a little bit of cockney rhyming slang in case that comes up. I think I see Dupers delight early on. I wouldn't be surprised if I do. I mean, it could be contempt. It could be disdain, but I don't I don't see anything that it would be to do with. So I'm going to go that he knows he's going to start his process of making up stories right from moment one. I see eye blocks. And what I mean by that is the lids will come down. The the head will shade a little bit. So it's not really, you know, a look off or or a or a blink or even a slow blink. It's a real shading of the eyes, you know, not wanting to see almost this terrible situation that you've got yourself into. Lots of swallow reflex there as well. More than I would expect to see in succession, even on the pressure under the under the pressure of a national interview. Eyes glance off. I would say that's probably exit checking that fight and flight is starting. The pressure of lying is starting and and his unconscious is going. Well, how would I run away out of this if I needed to? I saw the lip purse as well. Yeah, absolutely on. Why not tell the truth? I saw the lip purse there. Disagreement with telling the truth potentially there. Targeting of the eyes as well. And on the yes, there's a single shoulder shrug as well. That's not good to see. Chase, I don't know whether you've done a behavioral table of elements score here. I would. I would love it if you if you if you have if you haven't just make one up because I just want to I just want to see what the number is here and I think I'm going to I'm going to pretty much leave it a body language for that because that was that was a huge, huge amount, huge amount and tackle some other stuff as we go go through. So Chase, will you disappoint me or what do you got on this? 36. Oh, OK, lovely. Thank you. Come on. I was going to give him 168. This just for clarification's sake, a score of 11 or higher to be considered a likelihood of deception. So 36 is astounding. But one thing here, there's disdain, I think, coming across the face. Mark to your point. But it's right when he's told the media have a narrative that he's a terrible liar, terrible liar, not a liar, a bad one. So one big thing I was thinking watching this was. This looks like it might be disdain or contempt for being called a bad liar, as if there were a degree of pride, maybe in his abilities. So six months as a student there during this little part, there's a single shrug there, the unusual deviation in eye blocking. Mark, you picked up on that. And just the shortest answer yet from all of his baseline, super short answer there. This guy has the vibe of kind of a grandiose high school bully that everyone in the school secretly knew hated themselves. And a lot of this comes down to a person that is hiding shame. And I want you to remember those two words as we go through the rest of this video, a person that's hiding shame. What does hiding secret shame make me do publicly? What does that make into a person's character or behavior? That's all I got for them. Scott. All right. Here. Now this is just my opinion. But Mark, what you're talking about, about seeing the doopers delight. I don't think that's what it is. And Chase, the same thing for that. I don't think he feels proud about doing that. He likes what he's doing. This is a con man. Now this is just my opinion. So don't come at me. What's his name? George. But this is what I think about him or you. I think this is a con man and he's doing what he always does. So he feels comfortable here, no matter what you throw at him. He's like, let's play the game because it's a game to him. He's having fun. He this doesn't bother him, not even a little bit. So in my opinion, that's what we're seeing. We're seeing somebody go in and enjoy what they're doing because they're good at. He knows this game. He knows how to lie. He knows how to do this. We're going to see everything in this. This is beautiful. We're going to see the just bull face line. We're going to see the smile in line. Like we're talking about the enjoyment of lying. Hide our hard eye contact. He's doubles down on his lies. We see everything in this. It's it's unbelievable this in this series of videos. When he first starts, you see, and before he starts answering the question that forehead comes down, he scoots in a little bit. He's ready for the fight at that point. He's he's like the bull fighters has come out with a thing. And he's like, all right, let's do this. He's ready for it. Keep an eye on his teeth and his tongues and his tongues and his tongue in his mouth. Watch what happens there. Watch when he says under, he says under. There's this. It seems odd and it and it sounds kind of weird, but you really have to pay attention to what he's saying there because that's how he's adapting. He's using his mouth to adapt. He's done some of his lips. He's done those fillers or something because lips are all like like fish mouth the whole time and they look odd. His lips don't look normal. Something's not right about that, but that's where he's adapting. His tongue just around in there is flying around there. Keep an eye on that because instead we see some adapting in his hands, but we don't see anywhere else, but he's still on. He's still feeling that excitement. He's still got that stress and intention from being on TV and the sport he's playing now of lying because he's a pathological liar. That sport is on. So he's got to somehow get rid of that built up stress and intention by adapting or self soothing behaviors. As Joan of Arles says and he's doing it with his mouth and inside his mouth, listen to the words he uses, the pronunciation of these words he uses really important. Listen to how the, the senses go from really short. Like you were saying Chase, he's really short answers and short senses and a few minutes are going to get so long. Listen to this progression as it goes, as it goes on how the senses get longer and longer and longer. At one point they become three times as long as they are in the first video. So far we've seen eye blocking. We've seen the head shaking in agreement these and the eye blocking when he gets, when he gets the information that he isn't believed or is called a liar. That's where his eyes stay and chase refers that to shutter speed. They say close too long when he blinks. He blinks for too long. We're seeing everything in this. I can, I can go on and on about this, but he's laser focused on everything happening and everything he's saying. One more thing. I know what you're going to jump on Greg is the shoulder, what single shoulder and the chin. One. Because most of that, we're not absolutes on here, but every time, pretty much every time we see someone with a single shoulder shrugging, that chin goes over there. Even Jonah Varro talks about that and says it's, it's every time we've seen it, that person's end up lying, been lying about something. Doesn't mean they, that it's a, it's a tell for sure that when your single shoulder goes up in your chin, it's toward your line, but that's all we've seen on here. Every time it happens. So I'll, I've got a ton, but I'll, I'll leave it there. I got one more years, one more years that you didn't mention Scott. Who was it? One more years is extra faced because he's doing extra face. Oh yeah. Dad, come on. It's a beautiful example of it. And it just, you cannot miss it. Yeah, I wouldn't miss it. You may as well be completely honest now. Of course. Because I don't say there's any upside in continuing to fuel the media narrative that you're this terrible liar. Right. So, you know, I'm very, I listen, I don't have a horse in the race. I'm not an American citizen. You're not my congressman. You don't serve me. It's not my hard earned cash going on supporting you. So in that sense, I'm slightly detached from this. All I can say is that in the UK, we're aware of you because there's been this constant running theme now for months on end that you tell a lot of whoppers as we would call it in the UK. And so I think it's a good, it's a good chance, congressman, to just try and work out where the truth lies. Because why not? There's a claim that you said you attended the Horace Mann School in the Bronx, New York during your first years of high school that had to leave in your senior year because your parents fell on hard times in 2008. Is that true? Did you attend that school? I attended it for a brief period of time and then went back to the public school system and then dropped out of the public school system and attained a high school degree. I was always very truthful of not completing high school due to financial difficulties. I suppose for the school told CNN there's no record of you ever attending. Why would that be? I challenged to see what name they're looking under. If you look at my entire history of education, it was not under the name George Santos. What name did you attend that school? A variation. It was either George DeVolder or Anthony DeVolder. I wouldn't know. I was a minor. I don't know which way. CNN, I believe, checked all the variants of the names that you've ever attended. I was there for six months of ninth grade. In what year would that have been? 2004. So for six months you were indisputably at the Horace Man School in the West. And then moved into the public system and then in 2006 I attained a GED due to just circumstances. Why would the school not be able to find a record of you? I don't know. What name should they be looking for? I would say George DeVolder. That's how it's on my GED certificate. Have you been on the George DeVolder, Anthony DeVolder? Officially the only two names I've ever used on documentation has been George DeVolder or George Santos. So there should be a record of one of those at that school? Of course. The second claim was on the campaign website that you graduated with a degree in economics and finance from Baruch College in 2006. I'll say I'll save you that I did not attain a college education. That was that regrettably so is one of my biggest regrets in life. So that was a lie? Absolutely. And I admitted to it and I've made peace with the fact that I made a bad choice in making that decision. It wasn't easy. What's the simple explanation for why would you lie about something like that? Expectation on society, the pressure, couldn't afford it. Decided I wanted to run for office although I had built a very credible business career and I just didn't have that part of my biography that I could not give anything. Did you not think that you'd be cool? You know, I just went with it. I didn't think, I mean if you're going to make up a lie are you thinking at all? I just think it was a stupid decision in my part. Very stupid decision that I regret every day. Especially because I can, sorry to cut you off, but especially because I can prove the chops and the backing without the education but this stems more deeper into the political apparatus and the political culture of New York State and that would take a lot more time than this program to go over to explain. I can imagine, I understand the desire to want to be more impressive with your record than you are. I'm bemused that you would be naive enough to think that you could run as a politician in New York in particular and not expect to get what happened to you which is a massive comeuppance when they discover this stuff isn't true. Stupid. Stupid. Chase, what do you got? So let me just sum up the overall message of this one clip here. It was a stupid decision and it's somebody else's fault. That's it. That's the whole message here. This is, in my opinion, doing 20 years in the military and 9 deployments. This is the behavior of a coward and not a leader by any measure of the word and most likely there's something going on internally with this person that is probably severe and it may be at a point of pathology. I'm not an expert in that. But his blink rate just soars upward around the word naive. And this is a great way for us to take a look to see what reliable behavior indicators we can see in a few moments. And at the end here, where we're seeing him call the decision stupid a couple of times, there's a few things going on. His romance or mode as Scott and Greg you guys would call it is just really turned on. And this is where we see his voice pitch speed up his voice raise and pitch then speed up even his body starts speeding up and this is fear fear increases the speed of movement of our limbs or eyelids or head, all that stuff. All of our body parts. I think there's a part of him that's actually enjoying the thrill of this experience. Yeah. And it is almost a copy paste of a video that we did before on Dr. Phil about a massage therapist named Tarek. And it is a copy paste of that kind of behavior. And he seemed to genuinely enjoy the negative attention and the spotlight. And I think he genuinely believed that he should be the one deciding what's right and wrong. And is most likely this is the behavior that if I saw this in the video, I would say that he was a very significant narcissist at best. And of course, that's no diagnosis. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So let me unpack what I think you absolutely hit that narrative that he's got there completely. Let me break it down a little bit. So he's spinning lying into, first of all, the regret of not achieving a college education. So brilliant maneuver there to the idea of peace and making peace with yourself. So he's turned lying into, I didn't get a college education. And now I'm at peace with myself. And then he goes and it's not easy. It's not easy. So he's now pushed that into triumph. Now he's, now he's, he's gone from liar to what a nice person. And he's turned lying into a college education. And he's turned lying into a college education. And he's turned lying into, what a triumph on my part. Okay. So here's where he goes next. He goes to society's expectations. Okay. So he's now bought in a bigger entity, massive entity that's expecting stuff of him. He pulls in poverty. Then the idea of democracy. So what a fantastic, I mean, you know, if I could spin like this, I'd be in work every day in politics. Society's expectations to democracy. And then the idea of structural exclusivity basically says, look, I get excluded from this democratic process. Somebody's been voted in. And he's saying, oh, I'm getting excluded from this whole process. Well, what a brilliant, brilliant maneuver to turn from pierces you're a liar into a victim trope and print so much of that currency. So much of that very current currency, which gets a lot of attention, which gets a lot of airplay, which can get a lot of sympathy. And quite rightly so, because there are victims out there. There are absolutely people who are victims who need help. But if you go around printing that currency all the time, it devalues it for the people who really need that currency. And I'm, I mean, the awful thing is, here's a person who's printing that currency. And just as you're saying there, enjoying minting that stuff, enjoying the minting, the minting of that currency and devaluing it for the people who really need that. Extraordinary to see exciting to see in some some ways and awful to see in others. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, I think it's very methodical. I think if we go back to lying for sport, it's something I always say there are people who enjoy lying at some time. We play around with facts with people just to do something. But not like this. This is about life changing events for people. Look, most people that get away with to your point, Scott Collins, there's a reason. There's a reason it's called confidence. What they're doing is they're not tricking you. They're getting your confidence that they are what you expect them to be. And then they check the boxes. This guy was invented whether he invented himself or somebody else. He's an openly gay Republican candidate. One of the few who's been elected that was not already in office. He grew up poor. He had to drop out of school to support his family. Look, if you are trying to build a candidate and everything hits a checklist, you might question whether that's true or not. And this guy, this move right here to me is more than just lying for sport. This is a massive redirect for him. This is an element. This is checkers or chess or whatever the hell he's playing. When he comes out and he's going to do a big throwaway sacrificial guilt or what I call trading guilt. Yes, I did lie about college because I was in such a bad place. And it's important to the world but it wasn't important to me and I have all the chops to prove it and and and. You should be really careful when people fit everything you're looking for. Number one, I think as importantly is what he says was I have made peace with it, Mark. I think there's also the implied so should you. That's the piece I think I hear in his voice because a little at the end and that lower lip retracts when he says it. And we know that's about looking for some kind of reassurance when you do that. If you watch a little child withdraw their lower lip, they're looking for some kind of reinforcement. And then when he talks about why things are bad for him, it's not a discussion. It's a bullet list. That means it doesn't really have any meaning to him. Trust me, if somebody has screwed you over and left you in a situation where you can't win because you didn't have a degree and you had a list of things. Those are called grievances and people get animated about grievances. They don't bullet list them. It's just not the way he's worked. And then when he says, when he asked him, do you think you should get away with it? He says no, but he does a single shoulder shrug again. We get comes back. He smiles as he gets to this pinnacle of his victimhood about the political machine. Mark, I have on here something very similar to you. It looks like he's making Rob a run at Robin Hood. He wants to be Robin Hood even calls himself stupid. And I think all of this is trading guilt or turning over a big stone so you'll stop looking. And he thinks he's going to make a big tactical blunder that turns to a strategic blunder in the next video. But he thinks he's paving the way and that he's working appears more going to get there. Scott, what do you got? All right. Now, going back to the word stupid, every time he says stupid, that's when that single shoulder goes up, that single shoulder shrug and then that chin goes toward it. I don't think he thinks it was stupid. We'll talk about that a little more in a little bit. When he first starts out, we hear fading facts where he says, I did not retain a college education. Who talks like that? Who says that? Have you ever said I did not retain a glass of water when I went to or in the kitchen? Nobody says that. It's just weird that his whole thing. That's why I'm thinking. I know he's thought about this and he's had to lie about this one before as well because he's ready for it. And then he tries to scoot right past that thing by saying he regretted it like what you're talking about, Mark. Then he gives a list of reasons why, like you were saying, Greg, that it's okay. He does a list of okaying this. The whole time he's looking peers right in the eyes. This is just brazen line coming out just swinging, man. Then when he says, I just think it was stupid decision on my part. Like I said before, he doesn't think that at all. He thinks it was brilliant because it worked and he done it before. And he talks about that as well. So I think that's another thing we need to keep watching out for. And then when when peers has been used by the balls this guy has to lie about how he got in politics he simply agrees and smiles and kind of laughs and goes right past it like it's nothing. Wow. So this is like what here's what it's like watching the crocodile hunter. You know when he goes out and he would get those big poisonous snakes and all that stuff and you'd see him out in the wild and he'd be like look at this man. You know, and talking to and stuff. That's what peers has got. He's got him a live one, a live con, a live griptor right there. And we're watching him almost out in the wild as he's holding it. We're watching him lie and do everything that he does out in the wild. He's doing it right there right there in front of him. And they're filming it. I'm sorry. I'm getting all worked up. This is this is this is classic. This is this has got everything. This might be the best one we've ever done. The island is a few. The second claim was on the on the campaign website that you graduated with a degree in economics and finance from Baruch College in 2000. I'll say I'll save you that I did not attain a college education. That was that was that regrettably. So is one of my biggest regrets in life. That was a lie. Absolutely. And I admitted to it and I've I've made peace with the fact that I made a bad choice in making that decision. It wasn't easy. What was the simple explanation for why you meant why would you lie about something like that expectation on society. The pressure couldn't afford it. Decided I wanted to run for office. Although I had built a very credible business career. And I just didn't have that part of my biography that I could not give anything. You don't think that you'd be cool. You know I just went with it. I didn't. I mean if you're going to make up a lie are you thinking at all. I just think it was a stupid decision in my part. Very stupid decision that I regret every day. Especially because I can still sorry to cut you off but especially because I can prove the chops and the backing without the education. But this stems more deeper into the political apparatus and the political culture of New York state. And that would take a lot more time than the program to go over to explain. No no I can imagine. Listen I understand the desire to want to be more impressive with your record than you are. I'm bemused that you would be naive enough to think that you could run as a politician in New York in particular and not expect to get what happened to you which is a massive comeuppance when they discover this stuff isn't true. Stupid. Stupid. You claimed on your resume to have gained a master's in business at New York University with a GMAT of 710. Which would indicate academic excellence but that's not true right? Well the reality is I don't know where that GMAT comes from. I never put that out on my website or my bio. But you didn't get a master's in business. No no but I'm just saying that. The GMAT was on your resume I think. Which the resume was never furnished or supplied by me. Who supplied that? I have no idea where that came from. I'm not saying I didn't supply it and nobody associated with me supplied it. That came from the GOP and I'm still trying to understand where that came from. But you never got a master's in business at New York University? No. Like I said no. Right. I mean again did you not think people would find this out? You know Pierce not after I had. You're not running to be like a reality TV star. No I understand. You know if you were going on celebrity apprentices which I went on right. It doesn't matter you can embellish stuff and you can't run for Congress of the United States. And to just tell blatant lies about even your academic record. I'm just struck not necessarily that a politician would lie but that you would think no one would find out. Well I'll humor you this. I ran in 2020 for the same exact seat for Congress and I got to wait with it then and I guess. Right well that's honest. Stupid. So you thought actually they're not going to find out? No I didn't think so. But to that effect it's embarrassing. It's humbling to have to admit your faults as a human being and I you know I wish genuinely if the media put the equal amount of efforts and resources and I'm not saying this as villainizing the media but just let's keep it fair on all 435 members of the House and 100 members of the Senate. I think the American people would have more clarity of who represents them in Congress. I'm not saying I'm not going to say I listen I think the media both at local level and national level have pretty well been forensic about everyone that's in Congress right. I mean maybe not to quite the degree you've had to sustain it because they knew with you they had basically a wounded animal and if they kept going long enough everybody find a load more right you know it's human nature. Well if you don't know who we are we're the behavior panel and I'm Scott Rouse my body language expert and analyst and I train law enforcement in the immigration and body language and I created the number one online body language course Body Language Tactics.com with Greg Hartley. Mark. I'm Mark Bowden I'm an expert in human behavior and body language help people all over the world to stand out win trust gain credibility every time they communicate including some of the leaders of the G7 chase. Today I'm chase used at 20 years in the US military wrote the number one best selling book on behavior profiling influence and persuasion. Greg. Greg Hartley I'm a former Army interrogator interrogation instructor resistance to interrogation instructor I've written 10 books on body language and behavior including the most dangerous business book you'll ever read that recently premiered as the number one business negotiation book. All right Mark what do you got? Yeah just one thing on this which really kind of interests me is the wounded animal metaphor that comes up there. The idea that this subject here is now a wounded animal that the media has kind of come into feed on or predate upon. Now why is that an interesting metaphor because it might just work for him if he could be that underdog if he could be the fully wounded animal maybe people would feel sorry for him cut him a break as he's as he's asking for there you know he said in the last the last video you know I've made peace with it and Greg as you said maybe other people should make peace with it let me off the hook let this one go because look I'm wounded you've done the damage it's a good story it's a good drama that could work for him so I'm interested to see whether he holds on to that keeps that one going or whether he's going to let that one that one go you know it's interesting because it's it's that kind of Cinderella story of inside something very very mundane like lying which everybody does of course everybody does it to greater or lesser degrees inside that that mundane thing might be something really really wonderful and beautiful and he's kind of playing that Cinderella story with inside my mundane lying actually is some self-revelation some destruction of the structural exclusivity of politics the feeding frenzy will turn into forgiveness and it all be beautiful again let's see whether it works for him Scott what have you got on this one all right right out of the gate we're seeing we're hearing in other words fading facts and things start getting quiet there he's seen his own bio online that says what he believes to be is untrue but he didn't take it down didn't get it fixed didn't have anybody take care of that form doesn't really not really sure who did that he thinks he is he thinks he's sure but he's not really that sure so we'll be sure that we're watching that chin come down as from the very first video we're gonna see the whole thing come down to he's like this when he's talking so keep it out of his chance as we go through this and the way he's answering I don't think Pierce was ready for this again here because he just agrees with everything and he just sits there and waits he goes yeah I did that and just there it is then what do you do at that point because Pierce is ready he's up ready to start swinging with him and he really doesn't give him a chance to do that the one thing we haven't heard him say so far and we won't hear him say is he's sorry or he apologizes not once so be sure and pay attention to that he's not sorry for what he's doing he likes what he's doing the level of narcissism here is through the roof this guy is not only malignant this is clinical he's got it he's not a psychopath I don't think but he has he has no he doesn't feel empathy for anyone we're going to find out a little bit later on from some of the things he does or has done then when he says stupid allegedly done but again like I said it's just my opinion so don't come at me bro if you do anyway I hope you don't do you see that chin go through go toward the single shoulder shrug again and then when he says it's embarrassing and humbling his illustrators don't connect with what he's doing as he's talking everything is out of place here his illustrators aren't where they should be when he talks he gets a little bit quieter these are all kinds of red flags you can see on things like this be sure you pay attention to the way you feel when you see this guy talking because that's part of your brain in there which I go through every time all this time that's letting you know it gives you gentlemen it gives you the gut your gut feeling and ladies or women it gives you that's the women's intuition you're feeling don't forget how that feels because this is the way it feels as long as talking to you when they're trying to talk you into doing something you don't want to do sell you something whatever it is when you get this feeling heads up then we see another brilliant chaff and redirect by talking about the resources being aimed at others besides him by making sure he tells what the problem is but it's not just me and here's what you should be looking at it's literally chaff and redirect at that point so Greg I know you'll eat that up and then we see contempt on the right side of his face and he sticks through his tongue through his teeth I said keep an eye on that and it really quickly pops out through there now quite often what you'll see with children and someone who feels like they've gotten away with something they'll stick their tongue out through their teeth and they'll bite on it a little bit he's always biting on his tongue he's always got things move around in there again I think this is a form of adapting for him because he's got so much going on as he's going as he's weaving his way through this this game he's playing with peers I'll leave it there because I'm going to go on and on Greg what do you got? Yeah I'm going to tell you this is Anna Delvy as a guy that's who this is and I'm going to show you why and why I love this video more than any other video in this whole thing he starts off this guy was working when he turned over the stone when he did the thing that I said earlier he turned over the first stone so you wouldn't look any further that was a massive redirect hey yes my education is an issue and he moves on into this same question the redirect the redirect is working in his opinion and Scott I think that's why he's not trying to cover anything up he thinks smooth I got it he's got a set on him because this is Piers Morgan this is not the average person you go and try to snuggle up to he's a little harder to snuggle up to and he does a really good job of that redirect what's happening here is he starts down the path and when you listen to what a person says and watch their body language it's telling you can't miss it if you pay attention to this guy he does a televangelist hands picks it up looks straight down the camera and he says admitting it's the first step well that right there is a powerful powerful powerful statement then he goes into a long vowel extension at now and he's moving in to ask for forgiveness is what he's trying to do and then he makes the biggest mistake he makes in this entire video he assumes much like Anna Delvey did with Ian from the Australian 60 Minutes that he's got him and he tries to bill rapport and he says the stupidest single thing you could probably say to Piers Morgan you've been through your own issues with this because he has he's had his own scandal watch the body language change as Piers Morgan rebraces pushes his arms forward his chin juts forward works his jaw purses his lips it's starting to get ugly now he's going to now come back at him pretty hard if you're trying to bill rapport and you want to use negativity you better damn well know who you're using negativity with and this is not the guy to pick that fight with because now he's going to come back at you but squirming mouth and him drumming his thumbs drumming his fingers he's been very patient and now listening to this guy but now he's just waiting for the next thing I'll leave it at that Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I think this is a lot like the Alex Murdoch trial the admissions are only coming when he's found out when everything is found out that's when the admissions come my wife has the best intuition in my lifetime I've ever seen in a human being better than mine probably but I would say yes better than all these guys and I let her watch 20 seconds just 20 seconds of this clip right here didn't give her any background she didn't know who it was and she physically shuttered watching this and I just asked like how do you feel like how do you feel after watching that and she said I would not allow him within a thousand feet of our children from 20 seconds of just random 20 second clip in the middle of this so his underlying message is that the media would find stuff on everybody if they were equally scrutinizing everybody and right there right at that moment he revealed everything he thinks that everyone does this he assumes everyone has really really bad skeletons in their closet because all of us we tend to think that people like us and if you want to know how someone secretly feels about something you only have to ask them how they think most other people feel about it and they'll give you the secret answer so if you live your life actually thinking that everyone else is hiding lots of skeletons and secrets just like you what might that say about a potential pathology in your behavior or personality you claimed on your resume to have gained a masters in business at New York University with a GMAT of 710 which would indicate academic excellence but that's not true right well the reality is I don't know where that GMAT comes from I never put that out on my website or my bio but you didn't get a masters in business no, no but I'm just saying that the GMAT was on your resume I think which the resume was never furnished or supplied by me who supplied that I have no idea where that came from someone did it on your behalf I'm not saying no I I didn't supply it and nobody associated with me supplied it that came from the GOP and I'm still trying to understand where that came from but you never got a masters in business at New York University no, like I said no right I mean again did you not think people would find this out you know Pierce not after I had you're not running to be like a reality TV star no, no I understand you know if you were going on celebrity apprenticeship which I went on right it doesn't matter it doesn't matter nobody cares right but to run for Congress of the United States and to just tell blatant lies about even your academic record I'm just struck not necessarily that a politician would lie but that you would think no one would find out well I'll humor you this I ran in 2020 for the same exact seat for Congress and I got to wait with it then and I guess right well that's honest stupid so you thought actually they're not going to find out no I didn't think so but to that effect it's an embarrassing it's humbling to have to admit your faults as a human being and I you know I wish genuinely if the media put the equal amount of efforts and resources and I'm not saying this as villainizing the media but just let's keep it fair on all 435 members of the House and 100 members of the Senate I think the American people would have more clarity of who represents them in Congress I'm not saying I'm not saying I listen I think the media both at local level and national level have pretty well been forensic about everyone that's in Congress right I mean maybe not to quite the degree you've had to sustain it because they knew with you they have basically a wounded animal and if they kept going long enough they've already found a load more right you know it's human nature and you also claim to be a Wall Street hot shot who worked in Goldman Sachs or Citigroup your CV again your resume boasted of doubling revenue on a project to Goldman is any of that true so I this is where the resume doesn't work where I can defend my work career I work for subsidiary groups and outside of those companies you never worked to Goldman's or Citigroup not at them as a direct employee but I did work for them on the LPGP side through conference organizing fundraising attempts and marketing of those funds but you weren't an employee then you weren't a Wall Street hot shot right I can argue I've done very well in Wall Street but not for Goldman's or Citigroup not for not directly for them I mean neither of them told the New York Times like I said at any record of you ever being employed I've never worked directly for them I was never on their books but I've done work for them through other companies that I work for yes sir all right Mark what do you get yeah look I'm going to talk a little bit here about semantic argument if you want a great book to read around propaganda and how to form arguments and how you will be conned and tricked by that straight and crooked thinking by Thulez it was a little pamphlet actually that was originally designed to be dropped on the British troops in the Second World War so that when propaganda was dropped on them they could have a read of the book and go I see what you're doing there I see what game you're playing there here's the game he's playing on this one semantic argument which he's playing around with the idea of being employed by working for and working with and so if he can suggest that working with an organization is the same as being employed by if he can semantically reframe that then he creates a logical link to him having that authority having that prestige and therefore he creates a whole new outcome and that's what we're trying to do with semantic argument is to say the thing that you think we're starting this logical progression with it isn't that it's something else and therefore logically we get a whole different outcome so watch out for that when people reframe the argument you have right at the start in order to get you to another ending and think about it yourself if you want to create a resume that is economical with the truth you'd be wanting to say look I worked with ex-organization and indirectly saved the human race and therefore I worked alongside the World Health Organization and indirectly saved the lives of millions and millions of people if I can gloss over the links you'll probably think that I saved the lives of millions and millions of people but it is not the same thing as being employed by and having that prestige that's all I got on that one because I think it is beautiful what he's doing there and there is absolutely no problem with manipulation it's only the end result that you might have a problem with there's no bad behaviors just results that you wanted or didn't want and I don't think he's trying to manipulate this idea for our good or your good or the public's good I think he's manipulating for his good nothing wrong with manipulation manipulation will save your life people will manipulate things and you'll end up living out of that but he's not doing it for you he's doing it for him that's my take on it anyway Chase what do you got on this one so just notice the name of his company is glossed over he says LPGP and he glosses over it and it's just this company in real life is just an events organization company event planning the names of these other mystery companies never come up this is where I wish Pierce would have started peeling back some layers right here so always focus your attention to what's missing in a conversation not only is it going to help you like spot deceptions it's going to make you a better conversationalist when people aren't lying to you so if you're just in a conversation you're paying attention to what's missing you know where to ask a question about that's not being an interrogator you're just being a good conversationalist showing interest in another person but let's break down the behaviors here just in this one little clip we have a loss of fluency he's having trouble coming up with the right words there's hesitancy there and I think the third he is the mayor of qualifier town he's been re-elected newly elected mayor of qualifier town there's a very sharp increase in blink rate at the precise moment that we would expect it if we were looking at deception here score on the behavioral table of elements if you're curious is a 16 here well above our 11 threshold for deception likelihood Scott alright I agree with you but I think he got he won the mayor's race fairly I think it's probably the only thing he's never had to lie about or cheat about but he wins it through lying and cheating so it's this odd juxtaposition anyway that whole first answer was where he takes something very small and blows it up in something big like Mark was talking about that's the art of it that's how they do it that's one of the keys to it that's the old when you see like on the Andy Griffith show where Opie goes out in the woods eating his buddies and they run across this guy who's the hobo and he says you guys want to make some hobo soup and they go yeah he goes okay well I need this we do it with this rock and he boils this water he puts the rock in then he makes him go home and get all the vegetables and stuff to put in the soup and so it starts with something small just a little thing but he has people help him do it it blows up into a whole thing probably got three days worth of food there when he's done but that's what's happening you're taking something really small blowing up in something big and you're right Mark not only does he reframe that thing at the top at the end he comes back and he frames it up once again make sure it's nice and packaged up and exits with the yes sir so he just okayed the lie again so it's how it works it's beautiful what he's doing but this again shows us that he is just good at it because he's done it his whole life he's great at doing that Greg what do you got yeah a couple of things when you pad your resume Mark those millions and millions will get you in trouble because key performance indicators and metrics are how we usually figure out somebody's like I work in the business forever and you can usually go well that couldn't have possibly happened here when they start putting numbers and that's the reason they're careful not to do it this guy does a great job of that and chase on with you he loses the ability to finish the sentence very quickly which means Pierce is under skin after he stumbled he's smart enough to be able to tell because he is like you said Scott kind of a comment hey by the way George if you're watching us we would love to have you on here we know you got a set on you come on we'd love to have you on here come talk to us we would love to have you on here so there's inconsistency in a stream of thought here's a way for you to know when a person is full of it excuse me there's inconsistency in thought means they start a sentence in one place and then they change directions mid-sentence after a bunch of jumbled words that is an opportunity to redirect ball face redirect right in front of you when he starts down that one path he says about the resume he didn't talk about my resume he says the resume the resume who talks about the resume do you guys have the resume or do you have your resume usually most of us have our own resume and then he says it doesn't where I can can he starts hesitating again then he gets to the meter what he's saying he said he worked for subsidiary groups look that's all hedging and guarding because you don't know how to attack and to your point chase he brings up one group well how did you save the money doing that I want to know the numbers I would lean into him and just ask questions but again I'm a business guy and then he uses my favorite entire sentence in this whole video I can argue that I have done well on Wall Street that's not even close to answering the question he avoided answering yes or no he qualifies by using I can argue of course you can argue anything anybody can and then he uses a push-pull word for done very well other than a south when you're rich I do alright that's how people talk in the south and that has meaning I've done very well what does that mean to anybody any conditions a question again says I want an employee but for them this is interesting because he I blocks closes himself away we've talked about that already but he shows his lower teeth that's the first time I've seen anything it looks like anger here to me if I sum up everything he said is I lied about my employment but he conditions a question and there's a guy famous guy named Barry Menkow who took he was the youngest guy to ever take a company to IPO and he defrauded people out of millions and his famous quote is fraud is the skin of the truth stuffed with a lie well this guy don't have the skin of the truth and anything we've heard he's just got an idea and he's redirecting to the point you can't see anything the eye wouldn't suit and you also claim to be a Wall Street hot shot who worked in Goldman Sachs and city group your CV again your resume boasted of doubling revenue on a project in Goldman is any of that true so I this is where the resume doesn't where I can defend my work career I work for subsidiary groups and outside of those companies you never worked to Goldman's or city group not at them as a direct employee but I did work for them on the LPGP side through conference organizing fundraising attempts and marketing of those funds but you weren't an employee then you weren't a Wall Street hot shot right I can argue I've done very well in Wall Street but not for Goldman's or city group not for not directly for them neither of them told the New York Times neither of them had any record of you ever being employed I've never worked directly for them I was never on their books but I've done work for them through other companies that I work for yes sir you campaign bioclamed you run a foundation called friends of pets united in New York in New Jersey that saved two and a half thousand dogs and cats a five-year period that's true that's true but I wasn't alone in the operation I had there was a multitude of people we were all volunteers I was the operator I was one of the I think we were seven founders if I'm not mistaken between New York and New Jersey my advocacy in animal welfare and animal rights that stems from my childhood I've always very compassionate towards animals I own four dogs at home they're all rescues to one sort I call it the home of misfits they're all unwanted three legs heart murmur you know the issues like that and now everybody is after all the revelations about the organization I wasn't in charge of any of the the weird thing is there were no social media accounts for it those were all deleted well there are no the ones that anyone could find no tax records no evidence of the charity being registered in either New York or New Jersey they did run one fundraiser with a rescue group in New Jersey in 2017 for which you charged a $50 entry fee but the group which staged the event said it never received any funds and I can attest that that is not true the funds all ran through the group and the post of the facility was who was in charge of all of our filings so this came to a surprise as much as to me what happened to the tax records to the social media accounts? I wasn't in charge of any of that it was never set up as a charity even well I wouldn't know that I was the operator I was the guy putting cats out of the streets into my car taking them to get I understand that but I was in charge of that but when you say you're the operator of this of this foundation and there's literally no record of any of it it doesn't lend much credibility to your operational skills like I said I wasn't part of the administrative part of the group we were seven people everybody had their own tasks my task was George go pick up this dog go pick up this cat that was my task go deliver this adoption that was my involvement with the organization quite frankly did it well I still get a lot of message supports from people who adopted from us during the period of time I was involved who would have all the records? I don't know who would have all the records one of the seven people that you've worked with? I would assume somebody has the records all right Greg what do you got? yeah this is when it's full of a whole bunch of it but this is one of the best Chaffin redirects we're going to see him do in the entire show he does a preparatory breath and a delay that's true and there's a pause there's a but implied he goes to Chaffin redirect on a grand scale this is not just a lateral target when I say Chaffin redirect I go bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb till you pick up something on a lateral path and you follow that it's like an aircraft throwing out flares and a missile following them here he does something much more powerful he wraps himself in higher ground or holy good and that kind of thing he talks about childhood love of animals I'm a sanctuary for the downtrodden animal I was like where's mom apple pie flags that kind of stuff that's all he's really missing and I call this the house of Chaffin redirect not the house of misfit toys or whatever he's going to call it his blink rate goes through the roof when he leaves that topic because he's hoping that he gets something then he does distancing language I can attest that that is not true not true suddenly not a lie about stealing the pet rescue money the language when that language starts to extend when his cadence slows he puts space between the syllables you should be suspicious anytime someone does something like that to you ask yourself why it doesn't mean they're lying it means they're giving themselves time for some reason to think or whatever he also then does a cadence shift as he explains all of this entire thing and he loses his capability to string a sentence together he says it came as a surprise as much to you his brain is trying to do two things at once and he loses it respiration and wide eyes when he's blink blink what happened and now he's in the compromise he's in the compromise steeple his hands are in front of him and then he does another redirect back to like I said he's now lucky for the group instead of being a guy who founded it he's now the guy who there would tell to go do something and he would do it and he almost makes the big mistake he says the people who adopted from from from he almost said me and that would have been an admission of guilt dog swindler dog swindler dog swindler what do you got all right at first he like you were saying he ran the thing because he says you ran a thing he's like yeah I did I ran that but then he goes on to claim he knows nothing about it doesn't know but he's a wonderful animal rescuer because he's got four dogs at home they've got heart problem they they're all messed up but man he's taking care of them because you rescued him and we're just seeing him run a classic scam and he's getting busted and not owning up to it even though it's right there in front of him and what we're seeing is that teeter talker between not good and evil but good and bad so that's one thing to do that when you catch things like this you hear somebody talk about something that's really good then they end up talking about them being really bad involved in it something's up so he's saying I'm a wonderful guy who rescued animals then we juxtapose that against but yeah but I don't know where the money is I didn't have anything to do with that doesn't remember who to talk to and he ran this thing I don't remember who these people are can't tell us where to go to see him he never gets his back never comes up and he never says hey man I didn't do this or I didn't do that that's all of this happy face because he likes what he's doing he enjoys doing this and that's what you'll see as well if somebody seems too happy the whole time even when you push against them heads up on that we still haven't seen anything that shows sorrow or regret or grief or anything about him being busted lying and he never like I just said he's never rears back and goes hang on a minute man and stops him from it never all right Mark what do you got yeah so look if you have animals that you have rescued and you do that in order to help their suffering diminish good for you fantastic I'm not sure that's what he's doing I think he might collect suffering because the closer he is to suffering the closer he is to somebody who's suffered and the more prestige he can win the more badges the more pins he can wear and display around that suffering element so I'm gonna stick my neck out and go I hope his pets are well looked after but even his charity is friends friends of was it friends of pets united or something like that or friends of animals united so friends and united it's about the things outside the entity that's actually got the problem it isn't doesn't direct you even the title doesn't direct you to the thing with the problem and what does he do when he traffics around this suffering he was very good he says look I ran it he says first of all and then look this is a big problem because he then spreads responsibility well you know these people with a lot of people involved a lot of people involved that's a breaking baseline for him he hasn't been saying hey there were a lot of people involved it's all about him suddenly if he's now spreading responsibility I now know okay there's some real trouble coming up here because he's not usually anybody's gonna spread the responsibility he wants to take all the status of this so he starts to spread this this responsibility and what's he left with you said Scott he's he just was very good at animal supply chain that's you know just a little part of that animal supply chain and he was wonderful at that but he wasn't really organizing anything back to your point Greg I can attest that this is not true that's a negative for a start and it's a negative about attestation which is proving or declaring or witnessing so if you attest you have proof or you declare or you witness you saw it all of which are positives so instead of attesting that this is not true what you do is just say what happened say in the positive what happened and just like murder in the trials last week he wants to answer this one in the negative yeah he wants to answer in the negative rather than saying this is what I can prove actually happened it's starting it's starting at this point to get troubling for me and it's not going to disappoint because this is going to get way more troubling as we go along we've got left chase yeah yeah mark to your point in my notes here I have wound collector by proxy yeah exactly and I think that's what we're seeing and right at the beginning of this little clip here he says a multitude of people I'm not sure he knows what a multitude means seven people is not a multitude but when he's talking about the groups lack of filings and documents this is what BS looks like there's a total complete loss of fluency here he has trouble with his words can't put a sentence together the blink rate goes way up and before you might give him a little credit and say well he's on camera you know he's on camera he might be nervous he's on tv he's getting interviewed that's not what this is this is a spike in blink rate he's been on camera lots of times and I've taken a look at many of those to make sure that this wasn't some skewed perspective here then there's hesitancy he's pausing irregularly in his baseline before he speaks there's an increase in speed and when people are deceptive especially at the precise moments of stress and deception they speed up their language to shorten the amount of time they're experiencing the stress of lying and he says I still get a lot of message supports from people direct quote from this clip this strange mixing of words here is indicative of something that's super rehearsed messages something rehearsed over and over again these words and you'll see this in new actors all the time as I'm sure Mark could probably elaborate on I wouldn't claim this alone is indicative of deception but my money is on massive lying here and there's so much being concealed smoothed over it's just too much to ignore and you hear me say this on all of our videos if you're a subscriber what's the conclusion to what's not there what is being smoothed over skipped over, concealed or ignored in somebody's statement you can't bait by a claim do you run a foundation called friends of pets united in New York and New Jersey that saved two and a half thousand dogs and cats a five year period that's true but I wasn't alone in the operation there was a multitude of people we were all volunteers I was the operator one of the I think we were seven founders if I'm not mistaken between New York and New Jersey my advocacy in animal welfare and animal rights stems from my childhood I've always very compassionate towards animals I own four dogs at home they're all rescues to one sort I call it the home of misfits they're all unwanted three legs heart murmur issues like that and now everybody is after all the revelations I wasn't in charge of any of the the weird thing is there were no social media accounts for it those were all deleted there were no tax records no evidence of the charity being registered in either New York or New Jersey they did run one fundraiser with a rescue group in New Jersey in 2017 for which you charged a fifty dollar entry fee but the group which staged the event said it never received any funds and I can attest that that is not true the funds all ran through the group and the post of the facility was who was in charge of all of our filings so this came to a surprise as much as to me as to you What happened to the tax records to the social media accounts? I wasn't in charge of any of that It was never set up as a charity even Well I wouldn't know that I was the operator I was the guy putting cats out of the streets into my car taking them to get bigger and bigger I wasn't in charge of that When you say you're the operator of this of this foundation and there's literally no record of any of it it doesn't lend much credibility to your operational skills Like I said I wasn't part of the administrative part of the group we were seven people everybody had their own tasks my task was George go pick up this dog go pick up this cat that was my task go deliver this adoption that was my involvement with the organization and I quite frankly did it well I still get a lot of message supports from people who adopted from us during the period of time I was involved Who would have all the records? I don't know who would have all the records One of the seven people that you've worked with? I would assume somebody has records Let's turn to I mean I think some of the stuff like that is an arguable point potentially Some of the stuff about your family life has caused I would say more offence if as people believe it wasn't true and I want to turn to something that's obviously very personal to you and that's your own mother and this question of whether she was working as you claimed in her office in the south tower of the Twin Towers on September the 11th and then passed away as you said a few years later when she lost her battle to cancer Now there is no record of your mother Fatima DeVolda ever having worked in the Twin Towers So what's that true? That's true Why is there no record of her working there? I don't know where people are looking or what they're looking for But there is as you know because of what happened afterwards there's a record of everyone that worked there There's no doubt about who worked there I'm sorry There's no doubt about who worked in the buildings There was a full record done of everybody I'm not very aware So the way that I look at this I've read this case before and respectfully please I won't debate my mother's life as she's passed in 16 and I think it's quite unsensitive for everybody to want to rehash my mother's legacy Well okay but hang on here's what I would say to that they're only doing that because you put this on your campaign website I think if a politician is going to use the fact of his mother's death online as a result it was actually 15 years later but you're going to claim that she was in one of the towers on the day of that terror attack I don't think it's unreasonable for the media to investigate that and there is simply no evidence that your mother ever worked at the World Trade Center at all and the NBC News looked into this and said the only known employer she had was at an imports business in Queens that folded in 1994 New York Times said she worked as a nurse in Brazil two genealogists found documents that said your mother returned to Brazil by September 2001 and she was actually not even in America at the time she applied for a visa to enter the US in 2003 stated in the application she hadn't been in the US since 1999 so all this points to her not being anywhere near the twin towers on September 2nd I do think it matters because it's such an emotive part of modern American history so I simply ask you did your mother work there or did you just get that wrong? no my mother was I was 13 years old in September 11, 2001 I was in the United States when my mother was here because she had full custody of both her children so it's so does she lie on her these replication? I don't know I was a child when these things were being done so I have no clue and I have no recollection of my mother having obtained a visa and applied for citizenship later in life so that's alien to me now you're asking also things that I wouldn't know I didn't know my mother had a business in 1994 but specifically on the point of why nobody can find any evidence that your mother worked at the World Trade Center at all ever could you just got this wrong? I mean are you telling me that I got wrong what my mother told me? I don't know, is it possible that she misled you? so she wasn't one to mislead me but there's no record that she was there that day at all and there's a record of every single person that was in both those towers I stay convinced that that's the truth you claimed to be Chase, what do you got? so one thing you'll see in this clip here is half blinking his eyes kind of closed but the pupil stays exposed just super weird right when the topic of question comes out, so right when the topic comes out and he realizes what the question is about there's half blinking this is out of baseline for him it's out of baseline for most humans and we tend to do this when there's a potential threat the eyes are dry from stress which is why our blink rate increases but we have to focus on a potential threat in front of us that's when you see this behavior and his hands start squeezing together as the question comes out and he's waiting his nails and this is pacifying self soothing behavior call it whatever you like and then his blink rate goes way up here during the question and he's stressed probably knowing the facts are not in his favor here and knowing no one's going to definitively prove the negative I think he's chosen to double down here instead of maybe admitting another lie and he says I've rest this case before none of you are nodding so I'm guessing none of you are really going to jump into this but I thought that was really really interesting I've rest this case before I'm wondering what that is and I'd love to hear your opinion what you think it is put it down in the comments I go through there and I read it I'd love to hear what you think but he initially says he's not going to do it then he completely capitulates and reverses his position with Pierce and this is indicative of deception so I want you just to remember truth both carries and insulates confidence if you're confident on a topic truth carries that confidence and insulates it from outside forces so truth carries and insulates confidence second thing you'll see here if you're noticing if you're watching the eyes is that when he blinks his eyes move in another direction and when he opens them back up he tries to refocus on Pierce when his eyes are reopening so I called an eye surgeon today an ophthalmologist sent him this clip and he had a look at it because I thought it was a neurological dysfunction he took a look at it and said it was probably just a tick or some kind of a tick and just in case you see that I wanted everybody to know what that was that was my big one I was going to talk about it anyway let's go back to his blink rate his blink rate starts out goes through the roof that's because when Pierce first starts with this it's a big deal and he knows it is because there's nothing true in here except the fact that he had a mother that's the only true part of this as we go through this now it's the most adapting we've seen so far like you were saying Chase we're actually seeing it in his hands now here and there just a little bit of movement but now you're right he's in there squeezing trying to get rid of some of that built up stress and tension his voice stiffens up his body stiffens up and it's consistently through this the lowest it's been so far through the whole thing it's as quiet as it's been because everything coming out of his mouth is a lie so this is the first time he's felt attacked actually and so he's reacting differently because it never was dealing with his mother but this is when Pierce puts his head down starts coming in for him for the attack his voice gets quiet and then it gets loud then it gets quiet the whole thing is like breathing and it's becoming its own thing it starts breathing and getting bigger and getting smaller and getting bigger and getting smaller and these are the longest sentences we've heard from him so far and these are the ones I was telling you they're three times as long as the other ones some of them are really short they're at the beginning but then when he gets going he gets real man these things get bigger and bigger and bigger and it's just qualifying the whole thing and it's what he's trying to do is as he's explaining what happened so these are just giant run-on sentences there are no pauses in there he just starts talking and going and going and going because that's what he's used to doing that's what they'll do it's a form of chaff and redirect but that's what he's doing he's just talking and talking and talking and getting your mind off what's happening and realizing you with that and then making this point about at the end of those things a lot of eye blocking a lot of those really long blinks it's the deepest breathing we've seen so far and it's the heaviest breathing we've seen so far and he tries to ward it all off he tries to and say he doesn't want to talk about it because it's his mother and she's passed which is understandable but that doesn't work either his voice tone and more than most part his tone and volume have gotten so low he's like in full blown vocal fry for a lot of this so that's I thought it was fairly interesting as well because the whole thing is a lie so he's not really that animated about that's why he's so still and he's paying attention to everything being said so we can check those off as it goes down or are there any lists he needs to make to start checking those off and he tries but he didn't get very far with that then toward the end his cadence speeds up and it speeds up faster than it's been so far it's almost like an accordion it's fast it's slow it's fast it's slow it keeps going in and out and in and out because this one's hitting close to home because there's no way out of this one there's some other things that there's no way out of yet when we talk about those but up to this point this is the one he's not going to be able to get out of I don't think so I think it'll come back about him again all right Mark what do you got yeah so so why would a consummate liar a habitual liar who's pretty confident with it why should they be feeling so much stress around this particular moment well there's a great treatise on lying written by Saint Augustine and if you're into lying and I would count myself as some authority on truth and lies if you're into the idea of lying you got to read Saint Augustine and basically what he says is look some lies are worse than others okay he kind of goes they're all bad but some are really really bad and some not so bad and some you'll really go to hell for and some you might just get away with not going to hell it's a general price of it worth reading what about this particular lie well I would put this particular lie under the category of stolen valor to an extent now why would I do that well there is literally a national monument around the two towers it is a it's rather like in my view that the US gives itself a monument or even a medal of a valor essentially around this event that happened because the two towers event there was suffering tragedy and most of all there was horror and I think that's the wound chase to your point he wants to collect on this one by proxy and he has undergone the suffering and the horror of that event through his mother but more than chance his mother was not at this event and so to try and collect that badge that pin and pin it on himself via proxy is rather like showing up to Remembrance Day you know for us you know UK the British and the Irish as well and wearing medals that you simply did not achieve or are not your family's medals in any way which is in many cases okay to do as well as display in some way you know relatives medal that you're proud of now I love his idea of I stay convinced that that is the truth I stay convinced that is the truth and you know let's have the facts like give us the sensible facts on that one so stolen Valhalla here which I think is awful to see but you know could we give in the benefit of the doubt and go okay so is this kind of just a Walter Mitty kind of character who fantasizes and sees that the romance potentially in that event doesn't see the horror doesn't see the tragedy doesn't see the suffering there sees the the romance of it rather like some war films can be incredibly romantic and beautiful around the horror and he wants a sense of that romance what could be that or is it somebody who is so utterly ambitious for status utterly voracious in their appetite for status that they would pretend that they had a relative in a situation that all of us remember where we were on that date I have great friends who on that date when I'm signing up I'm going to war on that date they walk down the office and said count me in on this one extraordinary so is he a Walter Mitty or is he voracious and for ambition extraordinary Greg what do you go on this one let's talk about what he isn't he is currently not a talented liar in this case he starts to lose not just verbal fluency he starts to lose the ability to navigate lies very rapidly if he didn't he would say that's all the misunderstanding my mother was on the street when it happened she was impacted by very simple explanation to walk away and a lot of liars will do that they'll find a hybrid agreement but he doesn't he goes off with Piers Morgan kind of giving him a little bit of a bone he says some of that's arguable boom he starts off by saying potentially maybe some of this so the guy feels he's okay and then when he starts to berate him you see that blink rate go through the roof you guys have already covered the compressions for the adapters in that sacred space there are a couple of anomalies in his body language here he doesn't do it any other time that I've seen when he says that is true and his brow rises he's been lying about this may even be more compound there may not be a scrap of truth in it I don't know but something's up something is very different from the rest of his baseline on this one then he asks for a restatement of the question to give him time to think and there's anger when he starts to talk about it being documented he breaks eye contact down and then his lower teeth are exposed and he takes that moral high ground to my mother's dead and we're not going to talk about her life even he can't believe he just did that and if you don't believe that watch him down and throw it protect two things are happening now and we're going to start to see it happen more dramatically he's going to develop this gore looking thing here his chin drops and his neck starts to swell up I'm going to call that a vocal sack like a frog has because we're going to see it become more pronounced and it's going to be telling with him and then the other piece is he's doing the wicked witch of the west he's shrinking he's turdling he's melting and Scott I had to think of that because we just walked down the yellow brick road the other day when we were in the studio I think the guy is a piece of work that throat protection when he's put on notice is really powerful then he does a hard swallow and look at that stupid smile he started with this thing it's all gone there's no more stupid smile here if I were a sitting representative in the US Congress and got to this point I would probably find a way to get up and leave let me give you a piece of advice if you're ever in this kind of a bind knock your water over do something silly it's called faux pas get yourself out of that situation there's no winning from where he's at here when he starts to say her history is now a matter of of fact you put it out there his respiration gets high his eyes narrow he does another elegant redirect attempt he says I was a child living here so she must have been here because she had custody well that's an assumption that's not a fact and then he does the ultimate in my opinion Mark worse than the other lie he's a lie of betrayal he throws his mother under the bus are you saying my mother told me something that wasn't true wow now he's a turtle we're done I was reading the comments the other day and there was somebody there that said Scott I think you may have Parkinson's be sure you need to go get that checked out when I'm sitting here and I jiggle my leg when I get bored or do something I look at myself and I'm sitting there going like this I was like oh because I went through I look why are people scared of me I can tell them something to do like that it's looking like I've got something wrong if I start doing that you'll remind me and I'll quit shaking my leg let's turn to I mean I think some of the stuff like that is an arguable point potentially some of the stuff about your family life has caused I would say more offense if as people believe it wasn't true and I want to turn to something that's obviously very personal to you and that's your own mother and this question of whether she was working as you claimed in her office in the South Tower of the Twin Towers on September the 11th and then passed away as you said a few years later when she lost her battle to cancer now there is no record of your mother Fatima DeVolda ever having worked in the Twin Towers so what's that true that's true why is there no record of a word I don't know where people are looking or what they're looking for but there is obviously no because of what happened afterwards there's a record of everyone that worked there there's no doubt about who worked there I'm sorry I can't there's no doubt of who worked in the buildings there was a full record done of everybody I know I'm very aware so the way that I look at this and I've rest this case before and respectfully please I won't debate my mother's life as she's passed 16 and I think it's quite unsensitive for everybody to want to rehash my mother's legacy well okay but hang on here's what I would say to that they're only doing that because you put this on your campaign website I think if a politician is going to use the fact of his mother's death online as a result she died a few years later it was actually 15 years later but you're going to claim that she was in one of the towers on the day of that terror attack I don't think it's unreasonable to hold a media to investigate that and there is simply no evidence that your mother ever worked at the World Trade Center at all and the NBC news looked into this and said the only known employer she had was at an imports business in Queens that folded in 1994 New York Times said she worked as a nurse in Brazil two genealogists found documents that said your mother returned to Brazil by September 2001 and she was actually not even in America at the time she applied for a visa to enter the U.S. in 2003 stated in the application she hadn't been in the U.S. since 1999 so all this points to her not being anywhere near the twin towers on September 12th I do think it matters because it's such an emotive part of modern American history so I simply ask you did your mother work there or did you just get that wrong? No my mother was I was 13 years old on September 11th, 2001 I was in the United States so my mother was here because she had full custody of both her children so it's So does she lie on her visa application? I don't know I was a child when these things were being done so I have no clue and I have no recollection of my mother having obtained a visa if she had a green card and then applied for citizenship later in life so that's alien to me now you're asking also things that I wouldn't know I didn't know my mother had a business in 1994 so I'm just letting But specifically on the point of why nobody can find any evidence that your mother worked at the World Trade Center at all could you just got this wrong? I mean are you telling me that I got wrong what my mother told me? I don't know is it possible she misled you? I don't believe so she wasn't one to mislead me but there's no record that she was there that day at all and there's a record of every single person who was in both those towers I stay convinced that that's the truth you claimed in a conservative podcast in May 2022 that your grandparents survived the Holocaust your campaign bio again claimed that they fled persecution during World War II and you told Fox News that you have Ukrainian heritage on your mother's side now again multiple family records show your maternal grandparents were born in Brazil and a genealogist told CNN Jewish and or Ukrainian heritage and no indication of name changes along the way so this is the one that I'll battle to my grave to the point that I've already ordered those DNA test kits and I've done four of them so far and I'm just waiting for their returns and I'm very curious to share those with everybody because I grew up with the story was my grandfather was born in Ukraine when it was part of the Soviet Union migrated to Belgium at my grandmother in 1940 1941 they fled to Brazil where they falsified a lot of their documents to claim they were born there we're talking about a time in history where this was a very common occurrence in the name of survival and this has happened to other people and they were able to uncover it and then apology letters were written I've seen this happen in the community organizations and I will be that same story because I'm working on that right now but you would understand that if that wasn't true if your grandparents hadn't survived the Holocaust that would be a pretty awful thing to say why would I play with that I'm one of the most staunch pro-Israel most staunch pro-Judaism people in Congress today you claim to be Jewish but you're not Jewish I never claim to be Jewish I've always made a party favorite joke half Jewish, a proud American Jew a Latino Jew and a non-observant Jew they're all direct quotes from you you're not, you're a Catholic I'm a Catholic Pierce I've always made this as a party favorite joke and I've done it on stages across the country what's funny about falsely claiming you're Jewish no no no, not falsely claiming I'm Jewish I would always say I was raised Catholic but I come from a Jewish family so that makes me Jewish it's always been a party favorite everybody's always laughed at me, everybody's pounding down for a pound of flesh because you're not Jewish well I never said I was you basically said you were and I would always say but my grandparents are Jewish on my mother's side so I'm Jewish that was always a joke everybody used to laugh it up I said it's a room with a thousand people in November people were hysterically laughing it was funny to them, they loved it I don't think Jewish people find it funny they were Jewish, I was in a room with the Republican do you think Jewish people find it funny exactly, with no apparent background of any Jewish heritage whatsoever other than you say you have it no one can find it I think a lot of Jewish people would find that offensive I begged it for when we were at the RJC in November Chase, what do you got? this one's pretty obvious I showed my dog this video this morning and she said it's deceptive I think anybody watching can see the bait and switch and I'll tell you exactly what the bait and switch is but initially he says this one he will battle for as if to say the others are somehow less honest but this one's honest he dodges all the quotes from himself his own quotes and then redirects to a single instance of where the joke took place so he's experiencing a loss of fluency an increased blink rate which we, our blink rate how often we blink speeds up when we're stressed out there's increased adapting behaviors with his hands the tone of his voice goes up sharply at the very critical point here and something's up and if you just just use three things to go through any of these videos these three things will turn you into a profiler number one, what's missing from this speech what's being implied and number three what's the desired response if you just go through use those three filters and just turn off the video listen to the audio only and just go through those three filters you'll still be able to profile these videos on your own of this guy Mark, what do you got? Yeah, it just gets worse I mean I thought that this in my mind the stolen valor piece was you know pretty big now the collecting of wounds as you say Chase, via via proxy I've got it right here through proxy just here, yeah same victimhood through proxy and now, not even through the heritage of his mother but through the heritage through a longer heritage an ancestry trying to link himself I mean essentially though he doesn't mention the Holocaust here I believe that's what he's trying to link himself with he's trying to link himself with the suffering that comes with a genocide I would suggest you might want to debate that and he'd be very welcome to come on our show and debate exactly what he's trying to hint at here but this one he says he will battle to his grave this is the hill he will he's prepared to die on apparently and I think it's for somebody here's the irony for me for somebody who is such a friend of Israel and so in his mind connected with the Jewish people for him to say that they're all now demanding their pound of flesh is an extraordinary irony the pound of flesh references of course from the merchant of Venice from Shylock which many would say is quite an anti-Semitic character that Shakespeare wrote I don't think that's entirely true because Shakespeare actually sets it up quite well there's a very reasonable it's very reasonable why this particular character has so much anger and vengeance that Shakespeare is generally a better writer than than that but essentially the idea of granting your pound of flesh is linked to the idea of the Shylock and the grasping grabbing Jew and so what he says is like yeah they all want their pound of flesh now well if you really understood and was well connected with the culture of the Jewish people you wouldn't have used that idea or you have no idea of the irony that you just set up or actually have zero care and idea of the not even a firework this bomb that you're now holding in your hands and playing with again like a badge that you let wear on your lapel a little pin that you can go yeah Jewish look I got the pin there give me that piece of suffering it's it's disturbing where it my democracy I don't think I want him in there but look you know it's a democracy you vote him in you vote him out do what you like Chase what you got on this one oh do you know you've been no Greg what do you got yeah so I'm with you guys this is look you don't need to be us to see this all you need to do let's chase talk about the sound you can listen to his voice you can hear the change to his voice but you can also turn off all the sound and go watch him from the beginning to now he's gotten he's now his vocal sack is swelling you can see that big frog like neck starting to grow you can see his chin is down and his smile is gone you don't like the same person he's milling his jaw you can see right off the side here on the left you'll see as he's chewing or clamping down you'll see his jaw flex he does a downright eye access now there's not many close to absolute we talk about but when a person looks down to the right they're typically associating that with emotional things and then he goes this is the one you know all I was thinking was didn't he say something similar about the resume not his resume but the resume so okay was that the one or this the one now I'm also giving benefit of a doubt lots of family traditions can say we are Elizabeth Warren who was Native American and found out she's like one one thousand three hundred whatever the number is it's really low my own mother always heard she had Cherokee ancestors we had DNA tests she was three percent so that kind of thing can be part of your ancestry that parts true but you don't try to get an upper hand using it based on a family thing when everybody knows the DNA test exist this is another one where the facts are starting to get to him and let's give it for just a moment given the benefit of a doubt oh yeah no because little boy who cried wolf is a thing in our history or in our in our culture to remind us when people lie all the time they're likely not telling the truth when the time comes probably not telling the truth only place I think he is telling the truth is about the joke the one time joke somebody brought it up I think chase you did and the reason I say that is because he does a chin jut and that's indignant and defiant so I think he is telling the truth there and that's the only place I think he's telling the truth Scott where you get this is where we see for the first time for sure that there's nobody in there because what he's talking about is unconscionable to connect himself to the holocaust and say his grandparents were in that and it's affected all that's not that's not right I mean I'm a piscopal but I feel for people that are dealing with that man that's not good you can't go around saying for that alone they should they should say hey we need to stop so I should stepped in right then said hey man I'm sorry you can't be a congressman anymore you got you got to go for that alone you should get that I think that was gross and I'm not gonna so I won't go any further on that one this is you you claimed in a conservative podcast in May 2022 that your grandparents survived the holocaust your campaign buyer again claimed that they fled persecution during World War 2 and you told Fox news that you have Ukrainian heritage on your mother's side now again multiple family records show your maternal grandparents were born in Brazil and a genealogist told CNN there's no sign of Jewish and or Ukrainian heritage no indication of name changes along the way so this is the one that I I'll battle to my grave to the point that I've already ordered those DNA test kits and I've done four of them so far and I'm just waiting for their returns and I'm very curious to share those with everybody because I grew up with the story was my grandfather was born in Ukraine when it was part of the Soviet Union migrated to Belgium my grandmother in 1940 or 1941 they fled to Brazil where they falsified a lot of their documents to claim they were born there and now look we're talking about a time in history where this was a very common occurrence in the name of survival and this has happened to other people and they were able to uncover it and then apology letters were written I've seen this happen in the community in the Jewish community in organizations and I will be that same story because I'm working on that right now okay but you would understand that if that wasn't true if your grandparents hadn't survived the Holocaust that would be a pretty awful thing that would be a why would I play with that you know I'm one of the most staunch pro-Israel most staunch pro-Judaism people in Congress so much so you claim to be Jewish but you're not Jewish I never claim to be Jewish I've always made a party favorite joke Jewish half Jewish a proud American Jew a Latino Jew and they're all direct quotes from you so you're not you're Catholic I mean I've I'm a Catholic Pierce I've always made this as a party favorite joke and it's I've done it on stages across what's funny about falsely claiming you're Jewish no no not falsely claiming I'm Jewish I'd always say I'm I was raised Catholic but I come from a Jewish family so that makes me Jewish but again it's always been a party favorite everybody's always laughed and now that everybody's canceling me everybody's pounding down well I never said I was I really said you were and I would always say but my grandparents are Jewish on my mother's side so I'm Jewish that was always a joke everybody used to laugh it up I said it's a room with a thousand people in November people were hysterically laughing it was funny to them they loved it I don't think Jewish people find it funny they were Jewish I was in a room with the Republican people find it funny that a U.S. congressman is a Catholic with no other than you say you have it no one can find it I think a lot of Jewish people would find that offensive I beg differ when we were at the RJC in November an interview with New York public radio following your election you said you lost four employees in the Pulse nightclub mass shooting in 2016 I reported on that it was horrendous but none of the 49 victims at that Orlando club worked at any of the companies that you've named in your biography you said you lost four employees those are the people not not for people who worked for you for employees bad choice of words and I'm not the only one guilty of that but that's essentially the raw story of what happened no one could find any connection between any of the 49 victims and any of your companies so where where is the evidence for that I would venture calling the company and asking them the media have done that no they haven't been able to to attain any contact with the company well nobody can find any evidence it is true like I said I'm reporting based on what was reported to us that morning right Mike what do you get yeah look bad choice of words I'm not the only one guilty about you're right you're right you caught me back to rights I've been guilty of that as well I've been guilty of that as well but I'm not the one on TV right now who's lied about what you've lied about the choices of words that you've made the bad choices around so I get to judge you just as like you can watch me right now and you can judge me and that's that's the penalty that's the penalty for doing private things in public you know publicly lying you know I can privately lie and you'd never know about it but if I publicly do it then you get to judge me just like you're judging me right now going I like Mark or I don't like Mark I wish he'd go away I wish he'd do you get to judge that's the nature of privacy is very analog and in the digital age you don't get to be that private anymore listen here's what I love about about this and this is beautiful beautiful propaganda in its perfect sense when somebody says the raw facts or the raw Intel or the raw file we we would often think oh you're talking about something that has been unadjusted unredacted and is devoid of narrative it's absolutely raw it's the raw ingredient and he says yes that's the raw story that's the raw story he puts two things together which are the antithesis of each other rams them together and and uses them to call his his narrative evaluation his narrative evaluation raw data raw story that is that's brilliant that is brilliant and that's maybe the only connection that kind of use of propaganda and ramming two words together that are opposites that's the only way I can link him to any of the atrocities of the Second World War at this point you know that really is because that's a class that's a class act of propaganda that moment there it's it's it's brilliant it's brilliant Greg what do you got on this one yeah just a few a couple of things when people ask for this in the beginning we stay away from politicians but mark I think you brought it up one time unless they do something really stupid and public and then we don't have a choice welcome to the party this guy does blame sharing I was told I didn't do it I was told that so that's he's turtling his head starting to shrink and his neck is starting to swell out again so we're starting to see more of that he's getting smaller that that smile is gone all together he's saying that I in his shoes would never use and he says he's in effect implying that your lack of ability to prove something means it must not be true well hold on let's go back and look at your whole defense the entire time and everything he's had there my mother's dead so you can't prove anything she said I was always told by people but and then the last question I have for him and I'm not going to do a lot of behavior this is just listen to what he says how does he know they didn't get over the company anybody wonder that how would you know how would you know Scott would you get I'm with you on this I'm going to I'm not going to focus on body language much on this either but this is where it started to turn evil he's taking the horror that happened in that place and he's taking it for he's owning it for himself Joe Navarro did a whole article on on wound collecting that's what he in terms of this and this is this is horrible and he's doing it and he's a gay fellow and he's doing it to his own kind his own kind his own group or however you say it correctly he's turning on them I can't believe that that something had been done in that and from that group to go hey man what are you doing somebody straightened him out on that so that's not good I'm also going to introduce here a new theory I have and we'll start like this what else this guy done so far he's been his mother was part of 9 11 he's been a part of anything that has to do with pop culture be good bad whatever it is he's had a dog rescue he's been everything he's the forest gump of liars that's who this guy is he's done he just happens to be there for all this stuff and he's it's impossible it can't happen so I'm going to go ahead and call this guy the forest gump of liars at this point and then we'll move on you stole my wrap you stole my wrap that was my wrap well apparently I'm not wrong you're dead on so alright chase what do you got she tastes like cigarettes please take that out you're not going to take it out I'll take it out so first he says was a bad choice of words then changes it to someone else told him that so it's either it's either one or the other it's a bad choice of words on your part or somebody else did tell you that so second here he's the only one who can get in touch with the company so why didn't he offer to do that third all he needs to do is provide the names of these victims that's it and from several other clips I was able to look at on the plane on the way home here last night it seems he's got a really strong desire Scott to your point to be directly connected and involve in everything that was significant anything significant and painful to our country or any country this is often called grandiosity by psychologists the newer emerging models of narcissism since 2017 suggests that grandiosity and vulnerability in narcissism can further just be differentiated into three factor structures so the first one is called exhibitionistic grandiosity we might be seeing that here the second one is entitlement we might be seeing that here and the third is false vulnerability or vulnerability which we're saying here and there's one paper from from the APA psychological association that also talks about these factors becoming more exaggerated after facing periods of social rejection that may look familiar here and I'd go out on the limb here and say that that's what he's probably facing right now so we'll see what happens from a future behavioral perspective in light of these these papers that were published an interview with New York public radio following you lost four employees in the Pulse nightclub mass shooting in 2016 I reported on that it was horrendous but none of the 49 victims at that Orlando club worked at any of the companies that you've named in your biography you said you lost four employees those are the people not four people who worked for you for employees bad choice of words and I'm not the only one guilty of that but that's essentially the raw but no one could find any connection between any of the 49 victims and any of your companies so where is the evidence for that I would venture calling the company and asking the people the media have done that no they haven't they haven't been able to attain any contact with the company well nobody can find any evidence that is true like I said I'm reporting based on what was reported to us that morning you angrily denied this is another one where it's quite interesting because I don't know why you would deny it when it was clearly turned out to be true particularly after all the fury that had gone on but you angrily deny being a drag artist after a Brazilian drag queen posted a picture of herself with you you said the most recent obsession from the media claiming I'm a drag queen or performed as a drag queen is categorically false it is it's not though is it Pierce I'm saying the pictures so if I was a drag queen it was a poorst drag queen in the world because I had one outfit in one day the shortest lived career saying you're a good drag queen I'm just saying you clearly dressed up in drag once well sorry okay there's like me saying Rudy Giuliani I'm not a murderer I only kill one no I understand Rudy Giuliani dressed up in drag it's not a what about is he a drag queen I've got a lot of questions Rudy Giuliani he dressed up in drag look here's my point no here's my point why attack the obsessive media for publishing a truth because the media is not telling the truth the media is portraying they are they're portraying to the American people that I'm a drag performer career drag queen which is offensive to drag queens by the way and I'm pretty sure most of the drag queens in New York here's why they think that not just because you've admitted he dressed up in drag but a 2011 Wikipedia bio for a user named Anthony Devolder one of your pseudonyms claims that following a successful drag career you landed roles on Disney channel shows like Hannah Montana and a role in a movie called the invasion starring Uma Thurman now either you did that under your pseudonym which you told me you use or somebody has gone away and created their own Wikipedia bio using one of your pseudonyms to invent all this why would they do that I had no notion idea or even I didn't know this Wikipedia page existed why would someone invent you and pretend to be you 2011 anyone knows who you are I'm making this very clear I have no clue I have no ownership of that page weird though right someone pierce this is 12 years ago pierce my point you are I never a never tried to be an actor never pretended to be an actor be I was never a career drag queen I did once I dress up in drag once we've seen photograph I mean is it likely I mean again I don't care if you dress up in drag doesn't mean he lost to me I don't care and look here's my question for you a it's unlikely you did that only once if I may be so you can you can say that it's just the only once have we got photographic evidence right pierce I think it's it's it's just to me it's almost abusing that people are trying to fight me of something that I'm not that quite frankly if I were to say oh yeah I'm a drag queen that would probably give me redemption points which I'm not willing to take it because then I'd be admitting to a lie just to cover myself for the media so I feel like what you guys want me to do is admit to something I haven't done I said let me tell you I want you to do I simply want you to be honest I don't give a damn well that's what I'm trying to tell you all right Greg what do you got you can see his smile comes back up but is his in the beginning of it he is happy and then his eyes narrow the smile goes away and you see almost tears is that frustration I can't tell it looks like you may have some doopers to light come up is that left side of his smile comes up maybe it's contempt not sure which but I think he thinks he can defend this one because he's got all the right words and you hear him do a masterful chap and almost redirect he now conditions the question is whether he's a big deal and then he he and he parks that very quickly and then moves on and talks about being a career drag queen that's a big deal because that's an incremental and rapid redirect what he's done is throw out something take a quick turn and now he's going to park that and go another way and then he creates coalition with other drag performers to take it one step further from the accusation and make it about something else he's doing a really really good job of chaff and redirect and he's not having any part of it and he cuts him off and that's the way you kill a chaff and redirect he does a great job that's one of the best we've seen anybody doing any of these then he does this all out cluster of all clusters deviation from what we've seen there's a Biden smile you know when you defend yourself using a Teflon smile to get rid of things there's a tongue jut and then he starts to attack that faked resume the thing he calls a faked resume that's a lot of effort to defend something that you simply could say that never happened that's that it's all you got to say a lot of noise around that mark what do you got yeah this is this is brilliant because look Piers you know has been a naughty boy in the past he knows that we know that he can be a real pain and be brutal to some of the wrong people now and again but here my hats off to him I think he's brilliant because he's a student of behavior here he's he's got this this idea of of you know I only did this once and and Piers says no it's unlikely that you only did that once because behavior tells us behavior tells us as I've always said once is a pattern if you see somebody do something once you can gamble big money that they've done it in the past or they will do it again in the future it is a really good leading indicator of a history or what's to come and and a great one to just remember in in politics if you ever if you ever work in politics as I have done and I have been there with with a photograph and gone oh okay that's an interesting photograph and thought to myself there's more of those we only have one of them there's more of those and it's turned out to be true if you have one piece of evidence there's likely more evidence out there and so be careful how you play that evidence because you're not the only one holding a card you may think you have the ace but other people hold cards as well to that behavior and I would agree with Piers you know not there's anything wrong with that behavior I think he actually looks really quite fantastic if that's him and it possibly is I mean all credit to him looks really quite good really quite excellent I hope there is more out there because looks like he's doing a good job there I would prefer him at this point as my drag queen then as anybody in authority I think he'd hold great authority on range and probably shouldn't have any authority in politics right now not because of the drag thing just because he's a barefaced liar I mean just barefaced I mean there's liars out there but he's something else Chase what do you got on this one? Yeah so I agree with you that this is not the classic deception scenario but let's break down the behaviors here because this is not deception per se by the legal term but we have a blink rate start spiking right away right when the question starts coming out this is an indicator of stress then right at the words notion and idea he's using those words the notion the idea he's changing the definition as he's moving forward which is I think accidentally masterful let me see a loss of fluency here and he's saying I didn't know this Wikipedia page existed no clue no ownership of that page he's unable to agree that it's weird he all appears wants to do is agree that it's a weird thing it's weird so he's unable to even do that this is where we're going back to what's concealed what's withheld what's the intent and it denies trying to be an actor why? he's not denying the actual thing he's denying the trying to be an actor and he's making an admission to something on the page not denying creating the page at all he never denies creating that page and he's saying dressed up once look at this hand when he's saying I dressed up one time the fingers are rigid and stiff and just being restrained as if they're just waiting to come up and show more and as a quick note on this he is countered on his fingers in at least five other occasions and interviews that I was able to find I was unable to look at any behavior even remotely resembling this so this is a very unusual change in behavior for him and right at the end I just want you to just I'm just going to give you what he says in response to the question I want you to analyze this on your own as a subscriber as a panelist Pierce Morgan just says I want you to be honest and the response from him is that's what I'm trying to tell you you can analyze that any way you like I'd like to hear your response what you think while you're watching the show I've already gone but one thing he's counting this way until he says I only did it one time yes in the same video exact same video so you're dead on Scott yeah alright the key here is where Pierce says why would someone invent you why would someone invent you he invented himself that's what's happened here because there's nobody in there there's nobody there Kafka said and I always use this but he said every man is necessarily the hero of his own story this guy wants to be a hero so bad going back to what chase was saying at the beginning there's something wrong there at the beginning of him that has made him want to do all these things and this grandiosity of his personality type all these things in the narcissism hating himself that's where all this is rooted from that's the key right there why would someone invent you he invented himself he's done it all and though Forrest Gump was told from a third person's perspective this is told from his first person's perspective going back to Kafka so there's a lot of heavy stuff going on with this cat man he's this I think it can be dangerous at some point if he hasn't been already we just don't know so I'd keep an eye on that guy the other one is you you angrily denied this is another one where it's quite interesting because I don't know why you would deny it when it was clearly turned out to be true particularly after all the fury that had gone on but you angrily denied being a drag artist after a Brazilian drag queen posted a picture of herself with you you said the most recent obsession from the media claiming I'm a drag queen or performed as a drag queen is categorically false it is it's not though is it pierce hold on I go out so if I was a drag queen I was a porous drag queen in the world because I had one outfit in one day the shortest lived career you're a good drag queen I'm just saying you clearly dressed up in drag once well sorry okay there's like me saying Rudy Giuliani I'm not a murderer I only killed one Rudy Giuliani dressed up in drag it's not a what about is he is he a drag queen I've got a lot of questions Rudy Giuliani he dressed up in drag look here's my point here's my point why deny it I did deny it why attack the obsessive media for publishing a truth because the media is not telling the truth the media is portraying to the American they're portraying to the American people that I'm a drag performer career drag queen which is offensive to drag queens by the way and I'm pretty sure most of the drag queens in New York here's why they think that here's why they think that not just because you've admitted he dressed up in drag but a 2011 Wikipedia bio for a user named Anthony DeVolder one of your pseudonyms and claims not my claim that following a successful drag career you landed roles on Disney Channel shows like Hannah Montana and a role in a movie called The Invasion starring Uma Thurman now either you did that under your pseudonym which you told me you use or somebody has gone away and created their own Wikipedia bio using one of your pseudonyms to invent all this why would they do that I had no notion idea or even I didn't know this Wikipedia page existed why would someone invent you and pretend to be you 2011 anyone knows who you are I'm making this very clear I have no clue I have no ownership of that page weird though right weird someone pierce this is 12 years ago Pierce my point you are I never a never tried to be an actor never pretended to be an actor be I was never a career drag queen I did once I dress up in drag once we've seen photograph I mean is it likely I mean again I don't care if you dress up in drag doesn't mean he lost to me look here's my question for you a it's unlikely you did that only once if I may be so you can you can say that it's just the only once have we got photographic evidence right Pierce I think it's it's it's just to me it's almost amusing that people are trying to fight me of being something that I'm not that quite frankly if I were to say oh yeah I'm a drag queen that would probably give me redemption points which I'm not willing to take it because then I'd be admitting to a lie just to cover myself for the media so I feel like what you guys want me to do is admit to something I haven't done I said let me tell you what I want you to do I simply want you to be honest I don't give a damn oh well that's what I'm trying to tell you but I'm not a spy to man on Broadway that's true no I never said that not true I never said that I'm still I'm still trying to ask I've asked the reporters tell me who the donors were that I actually that's categorically untrue never said to anybody I produced a Broadway show and if you look at the timeline I think I would have been 21 years old well you claimed a lot of things in your life congressman and one month of you related you claimed on a Brazilian assassination attempt and that you are describing mugged on Fifth Avenue in 2021 I was mugged on Fifth Avenue in 2021 was there any police record no there was no police record you didn't report it there was no pull there's no police in sight 2021 this was a zombie land out here but did you report it no I did not I got up went into the car defeated upset because I had experienced one of the most what happened to you took my briefcase in my shoes who did two guys that's it that's it they jumped you on Fifth Avenue that's it I was crossing the street not fifth pardon me sixth and if that reported fifth right six because I would I worked on the fifth on 55th and sixth street why didn't you report to the police you know Pierce I don't know I felt defeated embarrassed I'm a six foot tall guy that couldn't defend himself from a briefcase in my shoes do you know how humiliating that is do you know how fear how much fear gets I just finished running across the street into the garage where the my car was parked picked up my car and left I'm lucky my phone was in my pocket so I could you know just do the the phone payment on the or else I wouldn't have money to take my car and what about the assassination attempt when was that it was an assassination attempt it was a death threat this is poorly translated Portuguese to English language death threat it was a death threat it was several that nobody tried to kill you no I never claimed somebody tried to kill me these were several we had a several series of death threats following this Brazilian podcast has you saying already suffered an assassination attempt that's well that's been badly translated this is poor translation so we go back and we listen to the please do I I it wouldn't have you saying you'd already suffered I encourage you yeah yep so it wouldn't have you saying those words it has me clearly saying that I suffered an death threats throughout the process of running for office something along those lines but no assassination okay all right Greg what he got yeah this is way out of baseline way out of baseline he's doing worm on a griddle now he doesn't know where to go so he's brought a new tool out of his bag of tricks I'll just do what I call trancing what we call trancing in the true crime workshop usually we say it's emotional you rock and you do something so you're not available it's simply a way of having something happen that makes you not available for questioning he's doing it through amusement if you notice this part of his face is smiling not his eyes so we know that part's not true this is all an act this lower face is smiling it's really bad acting for laughing and mark I know you'll probably cover it better than I do there but we're really getting close to worm on a griddle when he talks about mugging I have one question did they bring bleach just because and then when he gets to where he says they took my shoes I was defeated I almost am done right there so let me just hand that off to you Mark yeah look I mean I think there's and there's a non contraction there I did not but I'm going to put that down to accent essentially I think that's part of his speech pattern he corrects fifth street to sixth street and so there is something interesting for me that he is willing to correct the story here now and he does go for more of a an emotional relationship with the humiliation and the what would be a debilitation just so you know you know one thing that you'll do with a crowd of people to calm them down is take their shoes if you can get hold of their shoes you know there's they're a lot less frisky than they would be before I'm sure Greg and chase you've experienced that with incarceration and holding people so it's interesting so on this story here on this story here I'm I am I imagine he has been mugged in New York because you know potentially who hasn't you know a lot of people I know from New York would carry a mugging wallet with them you know one of the real one and one to give to the mugger you know before 9 11 it was quite a place little easier maybe now I don't know I don't live there but from what I hear but so I don't know chances are chances are he's he's he's going to trouble in in New York now has this him embellished somewhat well quite probably possibly given who we've got here and how they embellished but is there a core here of something that actually happened there's the probability that there's a core there and I think the probability for me comes from that he's willing to go now it wasn't if you you're hearing 6th street it wasn't it was it was 5th street or he changes 5th to 6th or 5th first I can't remember which one so in this sense this is probably for me possibly the most honest that he's being at something of a core thing that happened there that's the best I got on this one Scott where you got all right when he's asked if the question is true or not he doesn't say no Dostoevsky wrote this book called The Brothers Karamazov and when you read this it's a hard read because there's so many dang commas there's so many sentences that feel like they're run-on sentences and the paragraphs are huge they just keep going and going and going but there's so many commas in this dang thing that's what we're seeing here he's just throwing it's like Chaffin redirect he's just throwing everything out there from laughing to jumping around everything he can get he throws it in there it just keeps going and going and there's little that there's commas in what he's doing referring back to other stuff and telling you about stuff about what he just said it's it's crazy so let's take a look at what we're dealing with here also we're dealing with an immigrant Wall Street whiz movie producer who's the grandchild of holocaust survivors whose mother was involved in 9-11 and not only was there in assassination attempt on his life he's a drag queen and animal activist this I'm telling you back to my you forgot you forgot you forgot he is also a self-made guy because he had to drop out of school because they were poor oh that's right that's right okay well add that in there too good call good catch so this is where we see him doing what he's done all this life just out of nowhere comes this thing and just like what's up here and he has to just go off he wasn't ready for this one that's why so freaked out about it that's why he's making such a big show about it he loves what he's doing but we're not seeing joy here we're seeing him in a panic here this is what he looks like when he's not doing well when he's lying he's having to come up with stuff he's having to redirect everything he's putting up all these walls and blocks all these commas in there to make it confusing so he can get his story out about what really happened so that's why we see all kinds of things in here we see almost everything in here we see chaff and redirect, romancing, turtling, bariaring incongruent, illustrating, fading fax, eye blocking, torso protection we're seeing he's moving back when he's answering speeding up of his cadence, slowing down of his cadence his vocal volume goes up and down dramatic change in vocal tone his blink rate goes way up and it goes way down his breath rate his eye rockets at some points in there increased eye lock, eye gaze he's just locked on him half the time to make sure that he's believing so he can read what's happening with pier so he can see if he needs to add anything else it just goes on and on and on I'll leave it there alright chase what you got so when the question about the assassination attempt comes up I want you, I'm going to leave out all the other body language stuff, I want you watching this because this clip is about to replay as soon as I'm talking right here I want you to watch the subtle change in his face the moment that he realizes what the question is about so pay attention to it if you have to I want you to rewind it and watch it a few times and memorize it this is a shift that happens when a topic is introduced that poses a grave threat to someone and when I coach investors who get pitched all the time to ask CEOs questions about their company and their EBITDA and all that other stuff this is the first thing that I teach them to look for there's increased a force of gravity on the face you see kind of the things just kind of fall on the face there's a sudden change then the eyes drop downward a little bit while the person goes into focusing on what's going on but they keep you in their peripheral vision that's a big detail to notice right here and it all happens simultaneously and you can see it in one second when he realizes what the question is about so when he's presented with this mugging and assassination attempt he ignores the assassination attempt confirms the mugging this is one of those times I tell you to look for what's being hidden concealed or missing that's it right in your face in this clip so I called a professional Portuguese translator today and I sent them the entire podcast and had them directly translate this and specifically this one piece into English of course and here's what they wrote me back and I'm quoting we have already suffered an attempt on my life in Portuguese an assassination attempt and I also quote a six year old would understand this it is in the clearest language possible in Portuguese I'll just leave it at that let me add one thing to your list of things he has got he's a magnificent cell phone hider because they took his shoes and his briefcase but left him his cell phone yeah but you reportedly told donors you were a producer on Spider-Man on Broadway is that true no I never said that I never said that I'm still trying to ask I've asked the reporters tell me who the donors were that I actually that's categorically untrue never said to anybody I produced a Broadway show and if you look at the timeline I think I would have been 21 years old well you claimed a lot of things in your life congressman one month after you were elected you claimed on a Brazilian podcast you'd already suffered an assassination attempt and that you described being mugged on 5th avenue in 2021 I was mugged on 5th avenue in 2021 was there any police record of that? no there was no police record you didn't report it there was no police in sight 2021 this was a zombie land out here defeated, upset because I had experienced one of the most horrific things it took my briefcase and my shoes who did? two guys two big guys they jumped you on 5th avenue that's it I was crossing the street not 5th, pardon me 6th and if that reported 5th 6th because I worked on 55th and 6th street why didn't you report to the police? you know Pierce I don't know I felt defeated embarrassed I'm a 6 foot tall guy that couldn't defend himself from a briefcase in my shoes do you know how humiliating that is? do you know how much fear gets instilled in you? I just finished running across the street into the garage where my car was parked picked up my car and left I'm lucky my phone was in my pocket so I could do the phone payment or else I wouldn't have money to take my car what about the assassination attempt? it was an assassination attempt it was a death threat it was a death threat it was several death threats nobody tried to kill you? we had a several series of death threats following so this Brazilian podcast has you saying already suffered an assassination attempt that's been badly translated this is poor translation so we go back and listen to the original please do I encourage you it wouldn't have you saying those words it has me clearly saying that I suffered death threats throughout the process of running for office something along those lines but no assassination attempt one of the more serious allegations against you I felt was that you stole money from a disabled veteran who contacted you to help fund life saving surgery for his service dog this is a man called Richard Osthoff he says that you raised cash on GoFundMe but refused to hand over the money and AP says the FBI is now investigating this what is the truth of this? I've never met this man I've been abundantly clear I feel for him I feel for his story I am as compassionate about helping veterans and animals as the next guy when I read this it just hit me like a bag of bricks because I don't know him and most people who know me who truly know me, Pierce, knows that if he had met me and believed the surgery he wouldn't be homeless the fact that he was homeless and anybody trying to help him wouldn't address the homeless issue was a bigger problem for me and I mean that wholeheartedly so you never set up a GoFundMe page? I've set up dozens of GoFundMe pages no one will find one that relates to this let me make this very clear I've set up numerous GoFundMe pages throughout the years for animals and needs many of them who were not managed by me or managed by other people but because I was the main account holder on the Facebook page it would all go through So you're not denying there could be a GoFundMe page? I'm not denying there could be a GoFundMe page but I'm denying What would happen to that money if there is? Like I said, I'm not denying if there's a GoFundMe page and if they're going to present me with one I'm not going to deny that but I've never met him I've never took on this case and I never took the money from his dog again that we were seeing straight off blink rate up again I mean we've seen his blink rate you know up but for me here it starts to really peak I never met this man well so that's distancing this man is distancing I never met him well that doesn't mean that you don't have links to him or links to the issue you're not denying links to him or links to the issue so for me there's something up here that he's involved in this in some way very maybe very very directly or indirectly but still linked and wanting to deny even any link Greg what do you think of this one? What have you got? Yeah just a few things you've covered most everything I have because he never denies he did it I didn't know him I never met him so what most of these guys are never going to meet redirected higher ground about homelessness instead of talking about no I didn't do this to his dog he goes well if he's homeless and he takes that's another redirect he tries his adapting is increased moving those fidgeting those fingers his chin is down he's turtled and that goiter that vocal sac is back so here we go that's all that looks like deception to me Scott what do you got? yeah shoot you guys covered everything on that one but I will say what I thought was interesting he said he didn't take the money from his dog that I ever took the money from his dog yeah exactly what the hell so that's where I'll chase what you got so right here he immediately gets really nervous his hands are ringing these are pacifying gestures pacifying gestures super strong indicator here then there's eye closure while he's answering he's closing his eyes while making the denial with this extremely strong exhale this really powerful exhale that we have seen nowhere else except for this one here and Mark you're right on the blink rate there I counted it it increased to 65 blinks per minute was the blink rate there and just to give you a little perspective our average blink rate is around 15 give or take so that's a big deal then when he says I've never met this man that's not a denial at all then when he's talking about the go fund me here there's backtracking a loss of fluency and something that I call responsibility shedding so he's shedding off the responsibility somebody else was in charge of that somebody else was doing that it's my bank account he said it was his account that everything was linked to so just just as an example here's what an honest human being might do number one take a look at the account number two maybe talk about how they searched for that page because they were concerned that it might be theirs three deny or completely deny the accusation four care about finding out who did this to the veteran five maybe ask to help that veteran because there's a veteran in need right there six maybe find out who he is and help that person seven take a look to the finances since it's your account as the primary account holder and locate the funds figure out what happened this I don't say this often this is absolute bs and it pissed me off to no end so I looked to this guy up who got screwed over by this guy I contacted him today and just since we've been filming he's texted me he's doing well he's not homeless he had a doctor's appointment today and he is being taken care of and I am personally going to help him get the service dog get a new service dog within the next 60 days so I reached out to him this morning I talked to his dad actually for the first 10 minutes of the call and he's doing well and he said this media attention has really helped him because of this thing that we're doing this video on right now that's all I got one of the more serious allegations against you I felt was that you stole money from a disabled veteran who contacted you to help fund life-saving surgery for his service dog this is a man called Richard Osthoff he says that you raised cash on GoFundMe but refused to hand over the money and AP says the FBI is now investigating this what is the truth of this I've never met this man a lot I've been abundantly clear I feel for him I feel for his story I am as compassionate and as passionate about helping veterans and animals as the next guy when I read this it just hit me like a bag of bricks because I don't know him and most people who know me who truly know me if he had met me his dog would have received the surgery he wouldn't be homeless the fact that he was homeless and anybody trying to help him wouldn't address the homeless issue it's a real problem for me and I mean that wholeheartedly so you never set up a GoFundMe page I've set up dozens of GoFundMe pages no one will find one that relates to this let me make this very clear I've set up numerous GoFundMe pages throughout the years for animals and needs many of them who were not managed by me they were managed by other people but because I was the main account holder on the Facebook page so you're not denying there could be a GoFundMe page I'm not denying there could be a GoFundMe page what would happen to that money if there is like I said I'm not denying if there's a GoFundMe page and if they're going to present me with one I'm not going to deny that but I've never met him I've never took on this case and I never took the money from his dog all right Mark up to this point what have you seen what do you think has happened there's all kinds of levels of lying or telling porkies or telling a whopper as Pierce says I mean you know a lot of creativity is ultimately telling a lie making up something that wasn't there and I think some of his lies that he's are quite frivolous because they only really affect him some of his lies though are not frivolous at all and they are more than bordering into the dangerous and move into very very dodgy territory for me so there's a lot of the behavior that I see there I really don't like the look of this thing I'm going to wrap this up by giving you a quote from Rich the veteran whose dog died because of this person he said this little girl never left my side in 10 years and he said I went through two bouts of seriously considering suicide but thinking about leaving her without me saved my life and then he said I love that dog so much I inhaled her last breaths and it was a great deal so all we're seeing in this video is an internal behavioral profile of Tarek who we profiled on the Dr. Phil show it's self aggrandizing grandiosity seeking this inability to admit fault in an agnostic agnostic addiction to just public attention that is seemingly indifferent as to whether it's positive or negative Greg? and what I've seen is this guy could care less about anybody else and he's simply decorating himself with whatever people need if you give him a checklist tomorrow that said he had a horn on his head he would try to find a way to make it happen this guy is fulfilling a checklist that makes everybody who wants him to be what he is happy so Scott you said earlier the whole forcegump thing it's exactly what he's doing but forcegump was an accident he's been on the right wind and gone the right place and been prepared for it however this guy has not done that he's created the story and he's created details to back him and he's got a pretty interesting story if he's been drag queen this and that but that doesn't qualify you to be a senator or I'm sorry representative if the people are looking for something else so if you took a checklist and you created what people wanted on the ballot that borders on criminal to me my opinion when you say I should be forgiven you should be forgiveness comes all the time when Alec Murdoch said last week whatever if he said I should be forgiven yep and two consecutive life sentences that's the way life works Scott what do you got up to now I've got a really short sentence three words one word repeated run forest run just run I think this is another good one and we'll see you next time