 Good morning! You're very welcome to another episode of Awake in the Heart, 10 a.m. MST. You're on L.M. Virtual. LivingMiracles.org is our host, and my very special guest this morning is mystic David Hochholster. Thank you. I can see the little comments coming up on our Periscope viewers. It's about six feet away, so I can't quite read what they are. Just feel the love and the hearts from here. I can feel the hearts. We can definitely see the hearts going up, but we can't read all the comments. And for those of you who are joining us on Periscope, it is also possible to join us. This is an interactive show. We have a live virtual audience. All you need to do is go to LivingMiracles.org forward slash lm hyphen virtual And you would click on the show link there for Awake in the Heart, and you could actually join us on Zoom if you felt to interact or perhaps ask David a question. Otherwise, we'll just really appreciate and enjoy your presence. We have been getting some questions after the program yesterday. Angela Meyer had written in too just about talking about going more into that experience in state of mind. It's pretty much a general question that we talk about all the time because there's so many aspects to going into that experience, to going into that direct experience. But I'm sure we'll cover that a bit too on our show as we always do. Yeah, because it does feel great if there is a question that's really popping on someone's heart as well. Because that can be utilized to serve the whole for David to make a response that really will answer everyone's questions because it's always the answer that's given. We're really open to that as well. And I got to see Risen yesterday. That pressure after talking the morning. Yeah, exactly. I got to go in and see it. And what was I think the most profound experience I had was just watching them when they kept saying, but we don't know, we're followers. We just follow and that's how we find out. And nobody was holding a space where I'm in certainty in this traditional way I know something. They were all like, well, I'm a follower. I don't know. And it was so beautiful. And of course, that was this harmless, innocent demonstration. I mean, there were just such great demonstrations in that movie. But that part where he sits on the rock with Jesus, our seeming investigator, that moment for me. I just, my heart started singing and my whole being was like, oh, I want to be with you forever and ever and ever and ever. I just, I found, like you said, in a film that can lead you into an experience. It's not that you have to metaphysically take it apart, but that can, you know, it's an unusual one and it gives a demonstration that we don't usually get to see. I found it wonderful for that. That would be almost the purpose of filmmaking. And it wouldn't matter whether it had seemingly religious themes or not, because like I know you and I have watched a lot of movies. I remember when I was watching that movie, The King's Speech, you know, how it was just my heart. I could just feel it opening and the energy just getting stronger and stronger. Because those are universal themes. But in order to make a movie that aims at an experience, you know, instead of trying to make a point or whatever. I think that's, did you get a chance to see Michael Moore's movie, too? Because he had quite a number of ones. Cullenbine and then something about the war. And then, you know, he's had capitalism, a love story. But I felt like there was a bit of a sense, stronger with the earlier films, that he was trying to make a point or send a message. And I, since he was, this time he opened his heart up and was starting to capture witnesses or film witnesses of love. Yes. And that's a very different motive for making a film. And also, everybody put it back on him. Yeah, you're right, you shouldn't feel good about that. And he accepted all the gifts that were being given to him, even though there was an undoing in them. And he went on behalf of the American population to ask these questions and to receive uncompromising answers. You know, I just thought it was beautiful watching him. It was, it was, it just was very present. And even though there's a lot of humor and, you know, making fun as well, there's a lot of integrity in his taking of it. Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. Yeah. We had a double bill yesterday. What a treat. We had beautiful, holy encounters. We had one, Leanne, who'd been with us for two weeks. She was departing and then we had Kenneth coming in from the UK. So they were spaced and the spirit was like double feature for you guys. That's what's, that's the call. Oh, that was beautiful. What a beautiful day. What a beautiful experience. Yeah. Yes. And also this morning we, we, we launched the book is now available to pre-order the mystical teachings of Jesus that just happened this morning. So that's available and we'll give you the official launch date and the, when we send it out when, when that becomes available. But that just kind of felt beautiful as well. I've really enjoyed joining with you just about that content and, and that's coming forth and just the experience I'm having just even being part of bringing it forward. Yeah. Yeah. I'm on the mailing list. So I've got. You got it. I got it. Some of you, but I got it. I enjoyed reading it. That's the first time I too, I'd seen the cover because the, around here they're talking about the, it's kind of the color and the dark color and the, the silver and the, and the image and all this. And it's, it's all just descriptions. So poop in my inbox today. It's kind of like our set actually. It's kind of like these royal blue curtains and, and the sparkles. Yeah. The mystical. Yeah. And then our designer Peter, who's an Australian, he just, he did a wonderful job. He really, it was during the silent retreat they had down in Wilbur Tree. And he just really went deep into prayer and just allowed it to come. Lovely. He just did a wonderful job. I like to hear those, what's underneath the little black stories and all the little miracles that go into that. And then finally there it is. It appears in my inbox. It's beautiful. Yeah. I, I didn't know if you wanted to start with a question, if there was like a heartfelt one. Yeah, we could, if we could open it up. If there's anybody that has something either here in our studio audience, live or, or in our digital audience. And I mentioned the one that Angela had sent in and then, but it does always feel good to just open it up since we have this interactive forum. Yes. So there's a way you can virtually lift your hand or you can like turn on your camera and wave. Oh. Okay. Hi Kay. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. Good. Living with my mother-in-law. She's like 90 something. And she, she cries a lot because it seems like she, she remembering anything that's happening right now. She's like, she's not doing well as a fish. I was like a three minute memory. I was like, this is even less, but it's great because she's really chipper when she's not crying. She's really happy. She's like marvels at everything just being like it's brand new. It's kind of funny. So my question, I guess is, I guess I'm just here for her right now. And I would love for her to sit in with one of these and read something, but she doesn't read or she won't, she's gonna listen to David's videos. So I don't know, I guess I'm just being present for her, just holding the God's face. I guess I wish there was something that I could help her esteem. She's just dreaming. I'm just dreaming. I know. I felt like just putting that out there. Yeah, I think. It's actually really a restatement, really, of Angela's question about wanting so much to go into a direct experience and wanting to hear more about that. And so whatever the presenting perception seems to be, it doesn't really matter. It's always a good starting point to take us much, much, much deeper. So the perception of your mother-in-law from your ex crying, it's interesting, I think first of all, just to start with that perception, because most everyone has had experiences of either your personality self going through a lot of tears and emotions over particular things. And some of us have had long stretches of tears. I know I've talked about it a lot, that I had years of tears. It just kind of started, and then it just didn't stop. It just was like Niagara Falls, I call it sometimes. But also when we think of tears and crying, a lot of times it's associated with a sadness, although I think a lot of us have had experiences where we've had so much joy, like unexpected, like startling joy that we actually have tears that come in there as well. And there are people that have started to realize that even those tears of joy, they may have a different chemical. They know that they study tears. They have a different chemical composition. But also it's a deep emotion. It's a very deep emotion coming up wanting to come out. And I think what we can learn from A Course in Miracles and what we learn from Jesus that can help us all go into the direct experience of Divine Love is that this world was made as the projection of thoughts and it was made to be a cover or a distraction or a denial. I was like a smoke screen. Its purpose for the making of it, for the projecting of it was to keep us from knowing who we are and to keep us from knowing that Divine Love. And that's why I'd say for the whole world there's all these defense mechanisms and there's many discussions about opening to God and healing and self-realization. But the one thing that comes clearest from Jesus in the Course is you have to bring the illusions to the truth. And what I mean by that is that you can't really bring love into this world. That the perceptual world will eventually light up when you've breathed all the dark thoughts and dark beliefs in the mind to the light within. And then the world lights up. But we don't really bring love to the world. We have a lot of romantic songs. We have a lot of things where people are talking about spread love, spread joy. And those are the common phraseologies we see. We hear them, we see them on Facebook. There's a lot of that. There's even books being written, A Course of Love. And the Course itself, A Course in Miracles says this Course does not aim at teaching the meaning of love for that is far beyond what can be taught. But it does aim at removing the obstacles to the awareness of love's presence. So let's have a session here. Let's work with that with just what you're experiencing right now, being there with your mother-in-law and wishing that she could experience a heart-opening and wishing that for yourself as well, a big heart-opening, a huge experience of love. Since the ego made the world, made the linear cosmos and made all the perceptions that we see, the bodies, the houses, the cars, the natural world, the trees, the oceans, the clouds, the stars, since it made the whole thing, it's almost like the perception is the ego's playing field, we'll say. And it's playing this game of separation on this playing field. And the Holy Spirit wants it all to be raised to the light so that we can come back to unified playing, which is happy playing. You know, it's a playful light, like lila, sometimes is the word they have in the east for it, that it's all a play, but we want a happy play, a happy dream. And that comes from removing all the meaning we've given to it. So any meaning that we give to tears, even, we have to release that. What does it mean that someone's crying? Is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? When everything that seems to happen, this part of perception, is being given meaning by the ego all the time. And the way we drop into this real mystical experience is we start to realize that all meaning that we have given to the world, and I mean by that the good meaning and the bad meaning. Talking about the whole continuum. I'm not just talking about eliminating the negative, but I'm saying the all meaning that's been given to everything of this world is part of the block to this experience that we're talking about, this joyful experience. And that's what forgiveness is. It's letting the Holy Spirit show you the world anew after, and only after you have released all meaning that has been given to the world. Even common things like, well, that was a pretty good day. Well, what made that a pretty good day? What aspects and elements? Ah, well, I enjoyed that cup of coffee, and I liked meeting an old friend that I hadn't seen for a long time, and it was sunny today, it wasn't raining, and you can look at the positive aspects of even when you say, well, that was a pretty good day. Those positive aspects are just as much of a hindrance to true happiness, to true peace as are the negative aspects. Because why? Because the ego filled the world with positive and with negative. To fill the world with distractions to keep you from be still and know that I'm God. To keep you from this quantum field of perfect connectedness, from this pure, still open mind that is our natural inheritance. So, you know, over the years I've done a lot of talks and I had some students back in the 1990s, and I would joke with them all the time, I would say, do you want to give a gathering or workshop that will be very poorly attended, then do one on forgiving the good. Just put that as your title for giving the good. And there's quite a famous Course in Miracles teacher, I think his books have sold more books about the Course than right now I think than most others. And that's John Mundy. He's hit in recent few, last few years. There's been a lot of his books selling all around the country and the world. And John actually invited me to speak at an event that he and his partner, Diane Burke, at the time were holding in La Serena. Isn't that a nice name, La Serena? A retreat in southern Indiana. And so they said, yeah, you know, why don't you go up and maybe speak for 10 or 15 minutes because they knew I was living and studying and practicing the Course. This was back in the 1990s. And so when I got up to speak I did my whole talk, maybe about 12 minutes worth of on forgiving the good. And then after the retreat, John called me when he got back in New York, when he wrote in New York, I think he was living there at the time. He wrote to me and he said, hey, I really like those ideas that came out of your mouth during this brief time at La Serena. Could you send me quotes from the Course that really reinforce those ideas? I did. I sent him a whole page of quotes because he wanted to do a sermon for his church, Interface Church, on forgiving the good. And so I sent him a whole page of quotes. He gave the sermon and had it printed up, you know, as a sermon and everything and this and this and then about a week or so later we talked and he said, I've never had such a poor reception to a sermon in my life. I mean, I've never given a sermon that was so poorly received. People were like the faces were like looking at me like what got into you and a little bit of a scowling look on some of the faces. The feedback was not good. Forgive the good, you know, the feedback was not good. And I would joke with students and I would say there's another one that you could have, another workshop that you could have called Healing the Pleasure. You just never see those titles on workshops. People healing the pleasure on a donation basis. See what you get in the basket for that one. See if anybody shows up. You may be sitting there going with your course book. Okay Jesus, let's have a lesson here because nobody else is coming to heal the pleasure. And Jesus actually has quite a lot to say. It's not like a little minor topic. You know, he's got a lot to say about the attraction to guilt and he's got a lot to say in his Course in Miracles about these topics. But pleasure and pain, the so-called good, the so-called bad, the good conditions in the world and the bad conditions in the world are all projected by the ego. And when I say all, I mean all. I don't mean most. I mean all. Everything that seems to be part of the world is projected by the ego. In fact, we could say that that's what the world is. That there wouldn't even seem to be an external world unless you believed that ideas could leave their source and that you could project thoughts, good thoughts, bad thoughts out of your mind and onto a screen called the world and then make it seem as if the screen is real. That's what makes the screen seem to be there. Some of you are familiar with Lesson 132 from a Course in Miracles workbook which says, there is no world apart from what you think and then he goes on and he just ends the sentence with there is no world period. You know, he kind of comes in and he eases his way in there. There is no world apart from what you think and then there is no world period. What does that mean? There is no world. It just means that it's all consciousness. It's all consciousness and there is no internal consciousness and external consciousness. There is no observer consciousness and observed consciousness. It's what all the mystics have talked about. There's no observer, observed. There's no subject and object. There's not an inner consciousness and an outer one And neither is there an inner world and an outer world, but even if you read inner child work, they will say, go inside your mind and find that inner child, as if that inner child is very different from bombs going off or a political race or sunshine or rain or all the things that we associate with an external world. Most people wouldn't say that a picture of a bomb going off had anything to do with the inner child. A nuclear explosion doesn't have anything to do with the inner child. And they're saying, you have to get in touch most of the time with an inner child with the wounded inner child first and that wounded inner child is the ego and the projected world that is perceived with the bombs going off, that's the wounded inner child too. And so you can start to see from what I'm talking about, that if we apply it to your mother-in-law and her crying, that you can just start to say, well, I want to let go of these ideas of thinking I already know what it means that my mother-in-law is crying. And if I'm willing to do that, I'm willing to make clean the slate, so to speak, and say, I am a follower, Holy Spirit, we were talking about that, I am a follower, please show me, please show me the world in a new way, show me a completely different view of the world that doesn't have all these egoic projections of, oh, I know what crying mother-in-law means, or I know what this means, I know what that means. The I-know-mind is, in terms of the world and perception, is the greatest block to the experience of the present moment, and when we let go completely that's where things open up. The dream, even? Yes. There is a dreamer or there's not even a dreamer of the dreamer? Well, we could say that that's taking a metaphor, like in truth there's no right mind and wrong mind, and in truth there's no dreamer of the dream and dream, but that's a helpful metaphor. In other words, that's still using the Holy Spirit, using the concepts, even in the course, and is inviting you to come back and be aware that you're dreaming. But an only way you can do that actually is to let go of all meanings that have been projected onto the dream, because as long as there's meanings projected onto the dream, then it seems like there's a K and there's a David, there's a mother-in-law, there's water, there's a sky, there's clouds. We're right back into unawareness and we need to forgive that. We just need to realize, no, that's not really the case. I've got a little bit of that, I'm going to watch this over and over. Let it soak in. That's what it's for. Thank you. Thank you, Kate. I think for myself it was a great relief to discover that it was not required of me, like a personal sense of me, to be loving people. That wasn't asked, actually, and it was a huge relief, and therefore because the guilt that would go on top of that are so bad for not loving or whatever, my whole function was to bring to the light all of that hatred or avoidance or awkwardness or anything that was actually coming up in between. Once that was clean, then the love could flow and I always felt very grateful for an experience I had where we sat in a group session and I was supposed to be getting married in a few weeks and I just saw all this hatred coming up and it was the first time I sat there and I just shared those thoughts as raw as they felt. The minute I finished sharing them, nothing but gushing love was pouring through my experience and the one I seemed to be saying it to just looked at me as if I had told them and declared my undying love for them. It was so not what I'd expected, but it was a very real experience and I think that's what you're inviting with any of these questions is that there's a real experience that we can have if we even just question the idea that we even have a clue what we're trying to do here, like at all, like at all, like I don't know and I just feel like I'm to show up every day and show up with everyone who's showing up to be shown. It's beautiful. It's so beautiful to have that experience because that's like the opposite of what the ego would expect right before marriage. That's the kind of thing that they make movies of where everything goes amiss when something like that is shared but it wasn't, you weren't even saying it's a secret, you were just saying this is what my thoughts are at the moment and then it brought such a healing and that's the value of it and I had a singer-songwriter that traveled with me in about 1992 and maybe 1993, but her name was Donna Marie Carey and she had a guitar and she loved to write Course in Miracles songs but when you were talking it was reminding me of, she sent me a bunch of workbook songs where she would just take Course in Miracles workbook lessons and she would just get a recorder and she would sing them in to the recorder and then she gave some of them to me. But she did this one song which was basically every other line in the song was I give it the meaning it has for me. So there'd be a line that I give it the meaning it has for me. Another line. God did not create a meaningless world. I give it the meaning it has for me. The world I see is not reality. I give it the meaning it has for me. Nothing I see means anything. I give it the meaning it has for me. You know the whole, the song and then that was, then it got to the chorus. I give it the meaning it has for me. It was such a beautiful song because it was like a little jingle and you know how it is when you hear a song even you see a commercial you know you got the jingle going through your mind. That's the kind of fun we can have with this awakening. We can make up our own jingles. You can just get a nice happy tune in your mind and go to the chorus and put together a nice little jingle for the day. If you're having trouble remembering your workbook lesson make a jingle. She was bringing in some other ideas there too but the main idea was what I was just sharing with Kay you know is I give it the meaning it has for me and then I always go to Jesus and I say what do you think of that jingle and he's he said well I could I would just correct the one the one line you've been singing over and over. I give it the meaning it has for me. He said why don't we make that past tense because the ego is past tense. This world is over long ago and you are not subject to the ego anymore. It's healed it's done. I've accepted the atonement. I've given the resurrection is here and now. So he said why don't you sing I gave it the meaning it has for me. This is what happens with Jesus. I think I've got I'm having so much fun and he's like yeah I can add one thing you know always helping. I gave it to me. I gave it the meaning it has for me. My mother my ex-mother-in-law is crying now. I gave it the meaning it has for me. My bank account has a zero amount. I gave it the meaning it has for me. Next week I am getting divorced. I gave it the meaning it has for me. In two years I hope to get married again. I gave it the meaning it has for me. You could do it with anything and you start to feel a lightness come into you because why because you're applying the teachings and you're starting to realize first of all that you gave it the meaning gave the ego will say the false I gave it all the meaning it has and now the Holy Spirit's saying well just let go of that don't keep holding on to it like a bulldog that's got like a something a boot or a shoe in its mouth and it's not going to a piece of a shirt it's not going to let go no open your jaws let go of that meaning and stand in still receptivity to the Holy Spirit with a show me attitude like show me this anew show me this brand new show me your way of seeing may I not use the past anymore to try to believe that I'm seeing anything and show me it anew and it really works it really works could feel it and and there's just there's an instantaneous joy because if you know nothing then you can't mess it up you can't do it wrong and it's all the past anyway so you're like it's complete it's the complete acceptance of the atonement really it's just that's it yeah innocent yeah it actually too in a very practical way it opens you up to guidance because if you say and mean I will no longer let the past direct my journey if you say and mean that then you're also saying I know you're right here with me spirit and I know you've got a plan and I know you've got actual guidance and direction for me right now and the only thing that prevents me from hearing your guidance is if I've got some kind of tape running some kind of story of I know better based on my past learning and truthfully the past if we follow our past learning there's no way to reach salvation or atonement and if we let go of our past learning it doesn't matter if how many years of past learning or how many years we've spent in school or whatever how many degrees we seem to have it's all the past anyway but if we're just willing to suspend our faith in the past and just open up and say show me the way you will find that that's a fast track to spiritual awakening it's very very helpful okay candy there's candy good morning hi good morning um this was wonderful what you just said oh my god i'm so happy i was jotting everything down i i looked at the prayer that you mentioned yesterday and i'm just i have my little card here it's all that's pregnant yeah i need that kind of help if not i forget too easily um a question related to what you were um saying um in in terms of bringing to the light i have this notion and now that you've said all of that i'm thinking well yeah it's just the concept it's just an idea but i thought i could ask anyhow um bringing to the light does that mean uh that we have to confess everything to someone or is it merely that the illusions have to come up to our awareness like i've become aware okay this is going on and then i basically hand it over to the holy spirit is it perhaps helpful but not necessary to have someone to tell these things to help with the release i i the reason i ask is because um since i've started my journey with the course in miracles i find myself um becoming more and more isolated in the sense that i don't have anyone to talk to about these things um i'm just starting to connect with some people in the west minster who are also students of the course in miracles and so a lot of things are just happening in my head which is probably one of the reasons why i i'm always asking something here um so so i'm trying to find a way uh within the context of what i'm experiencing right now of dealing with these things that come up practically on my own because sometimes it's really the only thing i can do um not that i'm on my own theoretically intellectually understand the holy spirit is always there um but yeah i guess i'm rambling a bit right now but um so so in terms of bringing to the light is i guess i'm i'm also expecting probably too much at one time maybe i'm expecting my ego to relinquish its hold immediately and boom i'm enlightened um which is an ego as well but yeah if you could share something in regards to that yeah i think you hit it on the head when you said helpful but ultimately not necessary i'll go into what that means um because that's kind of the thread of of helpfulness and truth in there in the sense that there's nothing special about one body confessing um thoughts to another body um but there's something very powerful about the purpose that's underneath that possibility meaning that ultimately the the best thing and always the the thing that's most helpful is is to take these dark thoughts and these dark feelings and beliefs to the holy spirit within and that's the power of prayer you don't need anything of this world to do that you can just bring those thoughts and put them on the altar to the holy spirit and say like in this world we're used to getting good gifts you know we don't generally give bad gifts um we don't try to at least sometimes people tell us that's a terrible gift but but it certainly wasn't our intention you know we're not trying to do that maybe children sometimes when they defecate they'll come to their mother and father with a hand of poop and they don't they're so beautiful they don't know any they don't know that that's good or bad it's quite a it is quite a gift they're really giving us a gift because they're giving us something from their heart as an offering and they don't know that it's good or bad they just want to give they handed to us but I would say that as you go forward on this journey of spiritual awakening and you draw forth witnesses the spirit will draw forth witnesses I'll call them mighty companions or holy companions on the journey where they there's a feeling of safety that you can expose like just like Sarah said in her example there was she was in a place where it was guided the spirit was almost like saying go ahead you can do this and then whoosh the love was rushing in after she did it but I would say she was following guidance there and and that it's not some kind of a form thing where you just go out and you try to you know I've seen people you know in Mexico what they do is they just put a they have a strong passion about a political thing or a project in their community they just put a big loud speaker on their car and they get a microphone and they just drive through the streets and broadcast their thing out to everybody but we're not talking about that as needing another body necessarily but if you're guided if you're in that I will step back and let him Holy Spirit lead the way and you're brought people that have that love and that spaciousness reflected that they can hear you and smile and laugh and not take it seriously that can be a very helpful witness but that's just a symbol that whole thing I just described is just a symbol of your willingness to give it to the Holy Spirit which is really that's what's essential the form part if it's given by the Holy Spirit it's very helpful if it's not given by the Holy Spirit we learn from contrast when we share some private thoughts and it blows up it's like we've just thrown gasoline on the fire and before we had some simmering coals and now we've got a forest fire going because we shared some private thoughts that's that's not what the Holy Spirit would have us do so it requires quite a lot of discernment but it's great it's a very good question because we're all working on getting that greater discernment of what is truly helpful and learning to follow the Spirit on that. Thank you that is extremely helpful so practically basically when I noticed something like this morning I noticed I had a very short phone conversation with Emily yesterday because we wanted to meet up but I had an appointment at the doctors and I came out like so late out of the doctor's office and when I called her Jason and Emily had assumed okay it's not going to work out and so they made out other plans so to speak which is okay I wasn't going to be able to make it anyhow but something just my ego just got something wrong or started judging something and in the way she she basically spoke to me I mean intellectually I know there was nothing wrong with whatever was going on it was just very matter of fact in that sense and and and so I was I was chewing on that and this morning I noticed it's still nagging at me and I'm like okay Holy Spirit obviously something's going on that I don't know and I need your help here because I don't want to feel this way so that's sort of how I was dealing with it um and yet it's still nagging at me so I guess I'm uh and in these things I'm sure happen to everybody right they're just nagging and nagging and nagging at you and and and I notice a lot that on the intellectual side I I I know that okay this is just something that the ego is producing inventing it's not real but the feeling is still there right and so it's the desire to get rid of the feeling but maybe that's what's wrong right trying to get rid of the feeling instead of saying okay that's how it is right now and maybe using all the wonderful things you just said and saying please show me Holy Spirit a different way of seeing the situation and that's it I'm looking for a very practical way to kind of deal with these things in my head yeah I can talk about that too because I can give you some kind of direct um shortcuts to coming to a peaceful experience where the nagging goes away because that's really what you're asking is you're saying I don't like this nagging feeling and I and intellectually I'll try to apply a few things but it's still there and it doesn't feel good what's underneath the nagging is the same thing that's underneath rage it's the same thing that's underneath anxiety and all fear and guilt there's just one thing that is underneath all this and this is the belief that attack and innocence can coexist uh everyone who comes to this world has an ego and the ego is the belief that attack and innocence can coexist look at our prison systems look at our judicial systems you know basically when a judge sits up there the judge this human being has to pound the gov gov all and and basically make a pronouncement unless it's a jury in which case a bunch of bodies have to make an announcement and their their you notice what their verdict is either guilty or innocent and some verdicts are guilty and some verdicts are innocence this ridiculous uh guilt and innocence can't coexist to to even believe that you live on a planet where there's guilt and innocence is absolutely ridiculous because how could guilt be real in some cases and and unreal in some and and innocence be real in some cases and unreal others it just means that it's again another trick of the ego that the ego has made up an entire system an entire world of unreality just to maintain this dualistic belief system good and bad and right and wrong and guilty and innocent so it's it's good that you're noticing that you you feel this this nagging feeling because you are entitled to perfect innocence but in order to experience perfect innocence which is what god created you as is perfect innocence then you have to give up the idea of attack for once and for all because it can't be that attack is isolated it can't be that oh there's an attack over in the middle east or there's an attack like a terrorist attack here a terrorist attack here and then we've got all these scenes of oh babies being born and flowers blooming and sunshine beaming and oh it's adorable those are all the things that people put on instagram and and they fall over facebook oh did you see oh and we send all these pictures of the little animals we love animals animals but there's only thing one thing that ego loves more than animals is baby animals baby animals now oh my god because why they're more they're more innocent more innocent more and less you see well this whole world is is projected to be a distracted device from finding divine innocence which is really the only innocence there is inside you with within your very being the core of your being is divine innocent so here's another tip jesus tells us that that we will be free of the belief in attack when we see that attacking or being attacked are the same attacking or being attacked because what the world again says is one who attacks is a victimizer and the one who is attacked the one who's being attacked is the victim let's use the example of like the syrian refugees because there's thousands tens of thousands there's hundreds of thousands of syrian refugees going all over the middle east jordan and the country's all around syria in syria but they're trying to flee they're trying to get away and now they're in europe they just read this morning they're breaking into greece they're they're coming to canada i'm sponsoring one of them i'm actually sponsoring one of my friends as a syrian refugee to get over there into canada but the whole point of of being a refugee is a refugee from some terrible thing person place thing society country something or other and a refugee is one who's been chased away or fled to for their life fled for their life and and even that if we go into that that the if we say the refugees are victim of some other force then the refugee would be the attackee and the basad or whoever you know whatever complex isis or whatever they're tagged as the attacker now what jesus is telling us is he's he's saying i'm going to give you the fast track how to wake up to heaven the only way you will ever let go of the belief in attack is you have to let go of the belief that there's a difference in the attack in the world because again the ego projected the whole world out as a sneaky device to get the mind all caught up in this victim victimizer i'm gonna stand up for who's right and i feel that's terrible it's so you know somebody's a victim and then and go after the the victimizers you know lock them up lock them up destroy them stop them you know all of that is is just a game to keep the mind from going inside and going oh my gosh i still have judgments i still have attack thoughts and i'm attacking i'm trying to attack the son of god i'm trying to attack the christ with every attack thought that i hold because the christ isn't a man or a woman it's not a male or female it's just this beautiful being of love and light that's a perfect creation of a loving god but as soon as i project attack onto the christ i'm doing it to my christ self and i'm doing it to everything and everyone so if i have a nagging bit of guilt or a nagging bit of attack going on i will see that in every living creature i'm using living quotes because it's a projection really nothing living in the world but i will perceive it in every living creature as well as in myself if i hold on to the attack and as soon as i release that attack that idea of attack for once and for all it's perfect innocence everything we're back to the christ we're back to god we're back to love we're back to oneness and that's really another way of stating what forgiveness is is just plucking that one little tiny mad idea out of there and going hmm you are totally unreal and you've always been totally unreal and i'm not falling for your games at believing there's actually victims and victimizers because that's just another trick that's trying to fool me into keeping this nagging feeling because as long as i believe attack is real then the ego will say you're innocent it's those other people that are not treating you right it's like that pat benner song treat me right you know that's that's that's what it turns into or if you start to really go i know i'm forgiving everyone then it will try to turn it on you as a person and say you are a miserable sinner okay your brothers and sisters are all innocent but you're a miserable sinner see how it just slips it around first you're the innocent one and they're all guilty always pushing your buttons and doing crazy things or it will turn it around you say i forgive everybody and then it will say well now you're to blame you personally are to blame so the ego is very clever but there is a way out and that is just seeing that that perfect divine innocence has no opposite just like love has no opposite if there's hate there was never love you never have love in awareness as long as hate can pop its its head up at any any moment that's divine logic it is it's completely logical i do find that thank you so much i do have another question which is is sort of related but not quite but if anybody else has a question i i wouldn't want to take up too much of your time i see a hand going up there maybe afterwards i can ask my question if nobody else has one we have time yeah we'll just we'll just flow on for now thank you candy those beautiful really beautiful thank you hi hi there hi you hear me lovely who's this Eric we can't see the names ah yeah well um it sounds like uh hanuka hanuka beautiful right it spells differently but it's a dutch name um and i have a question about um the first lady who asked about her uh ex-mother-in-law and um is it the answer that you gave i would like to hear it again is that possible is there um a way of youtube or whatever yes because i'm in the same uh certain stance with my dog okay yeah okay yes absolutely we'll we'll be making this available on youtube and speaker actually so you'll be able to if you go to it's wonderful if you go to david hofmeister's facebook page and like that it will actually appear instantly after this we'll because we'll be sharing facebook okay yeah the public page of his facebook as i've got too many friends yes it's got a beautiful blue mystical teachings of jesus on the top of it that's how you'll know you're in the right spot so if you put that in that you'll have landed there that's great that's yeah okay you're you're so welcome it's lovely that you can join us this morning and and i i i think it's a very helpful for everyone to know that like the spirit will be applying each circumstance that david speaks about seeming circumstances but to the mind it's your your own situation and it dissolves and it'll even come back to you after but if you know if there is a specific um on anyone's heart that they want to look at now that's perfect as well so okay that's great yeah for now this was my question okay thank you okay thank you alexa had alexa had one go ahead alexa alexa looks like she's on the space pod there she might have been called away yes the people we were calling on her she started waving her hands and maybe she got a call or something i hope you at work yes yes i just put in the chat box uh the davids facebook page okay wonderful thank you also anyone here in the studio audience is very welcome if there's a question or anything on your heart that you want to ask i have a question yeah do you want to come up here and ask it okay this is kenneth this is hey he's just joined us he's come across the ocean i have the Atlantic ocean he was a bit of a swim all right yeah that's he's he's resting now that's it yes i'm a bit tired now my question was actually funny enough about the um on the plane i had this um i sat next to this lady and she was really lovely but um she was a musician and she was very she seemed very self-absorbed in herself and she wanted to barrage me with information and i was really struggling to kind of hold a boundary as to like this is a bit too much for me but i was just kind of like resting in god and just being with her and then we were kind of like separating away but i noticed afterwards like when we'd separated away i was like getting a bit of a headache because it was just like relentlessly talking at me and in my mind i was saying you need to say something but i just couldn't not find the words and i was asking but i just somehow couldn't and i just thought well this is just a beautiful i've seen it as a reflection of my own mind of like this barrage of like my ego like just sort of like going on and just being peaceful with that and that was helping me just to really um be with her afterwards though this morning when i woke up my kind of like ego kicked in and said you should have you should have held a boundary you should have done this you should have done that um and i'm kind of like curious as to what you would make of that situation as to what i could have done yeah glad to talk about that yeah that's it that's almost like a good two-part question because the second part there was the ego came in this morning and was like saying you should have said something and i can tell you the ego always looks back it's it's uh it's got all kinds of agendas and then uh whatever the situation is it doesn't even matter what the past is it will turn back and decide whether it likes it or not and if it doesn't like it it will tell you you should have should have should it will shoot on you all over the place just should should should let's go back to the to the time when you're on the plane and you've got a real talker and it's not so much an open conversation exploring you know like you've got Krishna Murthy on the plane with you and you're examining everything with openness and he you both talk for six hours and you feel energized when you walk off no headache you go oh my god i feel like i'm in love uh in this case you got off and you said you started to feel a bit of a headache well this reminds me of a nice parable where i was talking to a friend of mine who would fly back and forth from uh dubai and um india because she has a home in both countries and so the name is Jaya Meira and she was a friend i haven't seen her for years but we would get together occasionally and meet at somewhere and have a nice chat and so she was heading back um on a very long flight i forget where the city was but a very very very long flight back to india maybe to deli or bombay or it's one of those cities and she hops on the plane she goes back to her seats and she sits down and she you know she gives her luggage up and she just sits down and she's starting to relax and everything and then she just thinks that she'll turn and look uh to who she's going to be on the plane because it's such a long flight and so she turns and she looks and it's it's mother teresa she's stuck on a plane and the same seat next to mother teresa for many many many hours though right away her heart starts to pound and she's like oh my god thank you god this is this is the greatest thing you could have ever done to put mother teresa on a plane next to me this flight she thought i am going to talk and ask her all my questions that i've always wanted to know about her life and about my about god and jesus and this and this and this and this so she's heart's pounding she gets all fired up and so she turns to introduce herself and she does she introduces herself and mother teresa smiles and nods and so forth and then she notices mother teresa is holding on to her prayer beats she's just turned and introduces herself when mother teresa has just begun already in the plane she just got in the plane and mother teresa has grabbed her prayer beads and she's holding on to her prayer beads and so uh jaya starts to talk to her after she says her name and everything and mother teresa just raises her hand and says oh no no she said i i'm praying and i use these flights for prayer this is what i use flights for so i'll be praying the entire flight the entire flight to india i'm just going to be praying you know praying the whole time so no absolutely no no questions no words nothing and she goes right back into her prayer well jaya was like she had to face at that point all thoughts that she had expectations of the flight of everything that was going through her mind and uh she did tell me that the end of the parable was when the plane landed taxied up to the gate mother teresa turned to her and said um oh thank you for respecting my prayer it was such a wonderful prayer time for me and such a wonderful flight and uh and i do hope you'll come to my mother house in calcutta and i will be there to greet you and i will personally give you a tour of the whole place and i would love to talk with you as much as i can if you come and visit me at the mother house so actually i said well how did that go and jaya said i took her up on it i went there but i wasn't actually thinking that mother teresa would actually i would see mother teresa because she has such a huge ministry i thought that some sister would come and probably give me a five minute tour and you know and that would be it but she said no there was mother teresa came right out and and greeted her hugged her and gave her the whole tour and that's such a beautiful parable of of letting go of thinking we know anything of of she was so grateful for the symbol of mother teresa and and yet it didn't go the way she initially thought but it's also coming into our own certainty of our alignment with spirit so that it can come through in a beautiful sometimes clear or firm or even direct way with someone like mother teresa did in terms of what is most helpful for the whole universe and we just that means we have to start to let go of this idea of a personality self of the idea that we could interrupt somebody that we could offend somebody by anything we could say um or that we have to be play this like the sacrificial martyr and and say to ourselves in our mind well kind of you know you know you need to listen to her and be polite oftentimes we're told inside to be polite even though there's something inside of us that knows what's best for the whole and that we need to acknowledge that voice within that knows what's best for the whole and is right there with us every step of the way and it also is great practice for letting go of every meaning we've given to the world I know a lot of times when you're flying you may have a baby crying and screaming next to you in kind of piercing sounds but not at the back of the plane but it's right next to you or two seats over or something like this and and that's a forgiveness lesson you have to forgive those sounds those sites that something is is annoying or unpleasant because everything's coming from our consciousness it's not it's not really outside of us so we can't pawn it off and say I don't like that sound but I I do like other sounds sometimes people will put headsets in and try to listen to music or other things but still it it fits into this uh nagging the thought that uh the candy just brought up but there is no point in looking back on it but but all it does is it tells us like okay these are all practical opportunities to practice and I'll never be given more than I can handle and it sounds like Jesus is working with you a bit on this idea of speaking speaking speaking up and letting being spoken through um without pleasing without people pleasing that's probably what the the lesson was all about yeah yeah that's exactly it because I wanted to say like like I need to be with God now and that was just like clear to me that where I had to be but then like in my mind I got into I must give that she needs something so I must give and must be there for her and something will come from that like I'm gonna do something because you said like some sort of martyr yeah but in actual fact the best thing was really when I was listening was you need to be peaceful now and this was my peaceful time like Mother Teresa said that this is my prayer time and that's what it felt like to me but yeah I got into the pleasing of like this somehow this aspect of me needs something and this is to be worked on I got into ideas about what it was I'm a reflection of myself that I needed to heal or something yeah trying to make it analytical yeah yeah it's a metaphysical analysis still turns into paralysis yeah yeah yeah that's where I got caught up in thinking that I knew something about the situation yeah and was trying to heal it in some way because it was healing for my mind yeah it's beautiful too the more you come into that certainty when you're in that certainty and strength and the spirit because the only use of the body is as a communication device it can involve can seem to involve a lot of listening and and being spoken through for example one time I was giving a like a week long retreat I believe it was down in Australia and at the end of it it was up in the blue mountains I opened it up and I just said toward the end I'm open to having one-on-one so I'm going to put down a one-on-one sheet if anybody wants to have a one-on-one with me and then as I recall I looked at the sheet afterwards and there was 35 people on the list and so I was like okay so then I figured I was going to spend at the end of the retreat maybe two two or two and a half hours so I just kind of divided the the two hours by 35 people so I I kind of had an idea of how long I would have and there was a lot of listening actually a lot of people did not use the one-on-one to ask questions they were doing more like what Sarah had mentioned when she had those dark thoughts coming up and hatred they they wanted to pour their hearts out and use those minutes that they had with me before the next one would come in to just expose so in that sense that's just an example too where I was basically listening I I did speak some to some of them but they would some of them would look me in the eye and kind of be a little trepidation and they would say can I tell you my deepest secrets because that's really what the retreat was about was hide nothing so a lot of them spoke the things that were most shameful most embarrassing the deepest darkest secrets and use those minutes as a way to feel absorbed and again as we I was sharing earlier it's just symbolic there's there's nothing a candy's question about you know confession there's nothing special about telling your secrets to a priest or selling telling your secrets to me but but I would say it's symbolic it's the motive is to let them up and not hide and protect them and release them then it can be very very impactful but I do offer that as just an example because as I've flown on many flights over these years sometimes they're very quiet flights and I'm like the invisible man or I feel like I'm just spirit and other times people will talk to me and they're just open up their hearts and you know we'll have this deep connection that just keeps deepening during the whole flight and other times I'll be traveling with a friend like one time I was with Jason and he switched seats went over sat next to this woman and it was silent the whole trip and then as the plane was descending for the to go to the runway they both had the most amazing five minute talk of getting into all kinds of things in five minutes that you wouldn't even imagine after a completely silent flight so the whole lesson is one of like I will step back and let him leave the way that we can't make generalizations and even when people talk to me about boundaries I would say that to me is all about guidance you know we're we're asked to stay so tuned in to spirit and so available and open to be used for the greater good of the whole and we have no clue what that could ever be and yet it's very miraculous as it as it unfolds when we're in that state of mind so thank you that's that's a very beautiful question it's so good to see you let me get you so glad you made it really enjoying what I'm experiencing right now because we've got a very clear theme coming through of like a confessional nature of being able to just share what's heavy on your heart like in the film Risen when he sits with Jesus he just goes just see what's on your heart you know and something about exposing that and and and having a presence of one beside you if that's what's given if it's given that's helpful but also I think true empathy um if if how I can be truly helpful is that I'm accepting the Atonement for myself then I really just have to tune in for what it is in this seeming here whatever we would call here and that is what will serve the whole if I'm really if I'm releasing of this concept I have even being helpful or even being loving or being kind or or even that I'm hateful and I always push ones away like if I'm releasing myself of that and I'm really open to this moment and sometimes it's such a blessing to find out yeah it feels really good for you to be quiet now and just say thank you I'm actually going to rest or and then other times it is like oh there's something wonderful to share with you you know you can you can open to this there's a gift for you but it takes all this idea for myself at least of other out of it and and then I I can't go far wrong because I have this deep call to accept the Atonement for myself and then trust this unfolding like that there isn't an inner and an outer and that there isn't another and yeah yeah it's a fascinating theme it's a fascinating topic because it takes you it just it takes you it drops you into this vast vast open loving experience and and it's really you might say it's what the whole world is searching for the sleeping mind is searching for that because I got a message from my friend Lisa Cairns on Skype it was maybe yesterday or the day before and she was saying I can see now why you use therapy and non-duality she wrote and I thought that's kind of interesting I never thought of myself as a therapist but that was her term therapy and non-dualities she was saying because because people can have such negative behaviors that she said non-duality alone teachings alone could be used as a denial of life she said and a defense and that's how clever the ego is that even when we talk about oneness and connectedness and everything like this it's so subtle that what we really need to show up with is that openness just to spirit or to oneness to do it through us or or you might say to be a perfect conduit and not really know because I did write back something like well yeah I use all kinds of different but I use movies therapy and I've mentioned a lot of the therapies which I don't most therapists would say this guy is not a therapist he's showing movies teaching people how to get happy through watching movies and things like this but but actually it's whatever the spirit sends through in a very involuntary way in a very joyful way is lifting for myself or whoever seems to be with me and for the whole universe and that's really where the focal point needs to be because you're pulling away from this idea that of roles be the helper or polite or you know that's that's where the danger comes in it's trying to unconsciously play a role right I have I've always experienced two things when I seemingly join with you the first is all as well there's two communications instantly one all as well and even though you seem to have come to me with something heavy on your heart there is a way in this moment that we can instantly look at it together and see it differently and it that could be as simple as yes I would love a milkshake Sarah I mean it doesn't mean that I've come with specific things but the communication is so consistent the answer is so consistent that that's what we're joining in and and we start here with questions and they're wonderful and the first weekend I met you it seemed like all of the other 20 that were at the retreat didn't really seem to have questions so I asked questions all week for four for three days and then I was out you spent all your I was out because there were answers but mostly I recognized that the answer was the same all the time so I came into alignment into an experience that you were demonstrating for me of that all as well and therefore I could begin to actually receive even what had been said in the specific forms and come into I ended up actually in the corner of the room lying under a rug just lying there just quiet like there was nothing left because you had not in any way pushed me away in my questioning even and the spirit had just had nothing but that open welcome for me and that's the way it was coming and equally lovingly there's been other times where it was a feeling of it wasn't for now and then the trust opened the mind as I experienced myself to come into that same listening and so there's something about that the listening is in here always isn't really outside yeah it's not an interactive thing it's really uh it's you and God and and that's what it was at the beginning and we could say eternally it's it's Christ and God it's spirit spirit interacting with spirit and of course that's where the love is is the spirit just radiates and extends love and that's why we we sometimes will say go vertical meaning go to source don't try to look for answers in the horizontal plane right and then there's an intimacy and I'm sure even everyone watching is experiencing there's an intimacy like things that were on your heart this morning when you woke up or being answered you don't seem to have verbalized a question I'm sitting here even on this couch and David's saying very specific seeming things that they're just unlocking the core of anything that's still held for myself and yeah if if we can come into that trust that everything and every situation is just answering us then there wouldn't be the experience of this outward conflict that our inner conflict even that's coming yeah it's beautiful yeah well thank you we're just such a grace to have you here on the show so it's beautiful it's wonderful I was actually on a Skype call and um or a Facebook call and then um glanced down at the time and it was just like oh it's a prompt to get out of my PJs and come in but his spirit did it it's involuntary it's just like a noticing didn't even have my watch on but I did have my my iPhone so I was like hmm oh time it's time well again from bottom of our deep gratitude for today thank you and for everyone who's joined us on periscope whether on ellen virtual or on davids and all our zoomers thank you most graciously for your presence so I thought you could just give the way that periscopers could get on again because that URL actually was incorrect earlier that's livingmiracles.org click on ellen virtual menu link yes our our forward slash lm I'll tell you why I left okay great so um go to livingmiracles.org and then just click the lm virtual button that's the easiest way and apparently currently totally accurate way to do it and this show is called awake in the heart so if if you click on there we use a format called zoom and when you use zoom it allows you to be part of the interactive audience and we have a little how to use zoom button for you to click there if you need any support but it's very simple it's really just something that downloads onto your desktop and they do have a phone app too but it allows you to be more interactive so you'd be very welcome to join us in that way and we have Francis you at 5 p.m. on Fridays as well so that's another wonderful show to check out oh and we have a movie tonight it's the beat goes on the beat goes on we have a movie um for those of you who are new to us we use movies for awakening as a way to sit back and again like David and I are sharing listen very deeply in your heart so at 7 p.m. tonight mst mountain central standard time and you can join us for a movie where where we shared using the zoom and and we pause it if there's something to share from the spirit like a deeper insight and sometimes then we have questions as well from the audience so very welcome to join us for that tonight at 7 p.m. we love you thank you blessings