 exclusive coverage of Amazon web services. Reinvent, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, co-host of theCUBE. Dave, we got our first segment here. We're pleased to have Jerry Chen, new venture capitalist, cloud guru, was at VMware. It's been in the enterprise for a while. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. Day two kickoff here at Amazon, reinvent. Jerry, welcome back. Good to see you, Jerry. Thanks for having me, thanks for having me, guys. Cube alumni. So how was Hong Kong? You're just back from OpenStack. I think Hong Kong was great. My body and time clock someplace are specific though. So I don't know if I'm jet lag, but thank God in Vegas, I never need to leave the building. So I don't need to know what time zone I'm actually in. So it's going to be here. So Amazon is pushing the cloud hard. Obviously they are the cloud. Huge market share on infrastructure as a service. Check the boxes there. They got like 36% by our numbers. I think it's much higher than that actually. You heard what Jassy was saying today. Well, I mean, 5x the next 14, it's got to be higher than 36%. I think it's closer to 70. But okay, that's infrastructure as a service. But the action is platform as a service and SaaS. So I got to get your take on it because we're following OpenStack, you were just in Hong Kong. You got Amazon public cloud, you got OpenStack coming up as that horse. Those are two horse race right now. Yeah, CloudStack's out there, but really it's OpenStack is like the enterprise hope. It's the great hope for the enterprise with Amazon kind of rolling, rolling out massive services. What's your take on the two? And is it a two horse race? And what's the difference between the two? You know, I don't think it's a two horse race yet, but Amazon is quickly becoming the Microsoft monopoly of the public cloud at the rate they're going. And they're had the size and scale that pretty soon is going to be really hard to compete. And I think only Google and maybe Microsoft and the public cloud space can really compete. But if you take a step back and look at your question, OpenStack versus Amazon, I was in Hong Kong last week at the OpenStack design summit and OpenStack's philosophy is they want to be all things to all people, right? It's open source, multiple projects. Amazon's philosophy is they want to be one cloud to all people. So you saw their announcements today around enterprise use cases, desktop use cases, startup use cases, media use cases. They want to be one cloud to all people. So it's not, the race isn't over yet, but it's very different philosophies right now between the two different camps. Was there much talk about incorporating Amazon APIs into the whole OpenStack framework six months ago? You heard a lot about that. We had a crowd chat on that, John. What was the buzz there? You know, I'll be honest. And to the point that you guys brought up earlier, the Amazon APIs almost are becoming a lingual franca for infrastructure of a service. But quite frankly, debating whether or not they're the right APIs or not isn't, I think, where the actions add. And the actions add to the point you made earlier around pass and other developer services. So the actual APIs, if you do the APIs right, should be pretty easy for developers to adopt. You just create really great developer services around it. Database services, storage services, security services. Those are what developers really care about. So I feel like we have, you know, sometimes called cloud plus, infrastructure service plus, and you got SaaS minus. You know, it's like what you have with Salesforce. Do you feel like we really need that pass layer? Or does that just sort of bifurcate into one of those two? There's a school of thought that says the world goes into two worlds. A long tail of SaaS apps. So there's an app for everything, in which case you have SaaS or SaaS minus, and then infrastructure private cloud for a bunch of legacy apps. There's no middle ground for pass. You know, I'm more towards the middle ground because in a world where you have multiple SaaS providers and multiple clouds, I believe you're going to have multiple SaaS and multiple clouds, you're going to need to integrate and stick together a mashup of applications, right? You have Workday for HCM, Salesforce for CRM applications. Your own custom website running on Amazon. There are three different clouds. Service now. Service now. How are you going to connect the data? How are you going to move data around? There's going to be at least some kind of pass layer, integration layer, or cloud layer that needs to help stick together this multi-cloud world. So you like the pivotal play? In concept. In concept, right? I think Paul is a visionary and a bunch of my friends still work there. Their announcement yesterday was, I think a step in the right direction that they're planning a flag saying that there has to be something beyond Amazon. There has to be a relevant private cloud initiative via VMware or OpenStack or someplace else and let's create some services around it. And the angle they're taking around data and data services, I think is probably the right bed because all these new applications will need these data services to be relevant. We were talking about Pivotal yesterday. One of the things that we were critical on but also hopeful, as you pointed out, it's early, right? So Pivotal, a mulligan or a pass, if you will, is it's early. And it's really a new company, if you think about it, 1600 employees, but new. But it's window dressing announcement. It really wasn't really. I mean, so the same logos, I mean, come on. They're trying to overhype and that's what people are talking about, saying, hey, guys, just be honest and say we're working as fast as we can because Amazon is not going to break the enterprise right away. I mean, they also have a longer road. They're going hard at the enterprise. So they are going after IBM. We saw in the keynote, they called out IBM specifically around some of the advertising around the show. So Amazon is clearly trying to knock on the door of the enterprise. So the question we are asking and talking about is, how much time is it till they proliferate the enterprise? I mean, they're in there now, toe in the water, little beach head, still not enterprise ready in the sense of the SLAs and the demands. Or does it matter? And so what's your take on how much time is really on the radar for Amazon? When will the clock be expiring for the IBMs, HP, Pivotals in terms of retooling? So I think the evolution around enterprise, public cloud like Amazon would take three potential paths. So path one around Amazon, Amazon invests enough engineering and product talent to make their cloud enterprise friendly, privacy, security, reliability. And they're hiring a bunch of folks, from my old place view and we're trying to do that. That's path one. Path two is you see a category of startups out there trying to make Amazon more cloud and enterprise friendly, security, privacy, reliability, right? So that's path two. And as a Greylock venture capitalist, we're investing a bunch of companies trying to make that happen. Or path three is developers out there, engineer around the weaknesses of Amazon. So they know Amazon is enterprise friendly. They know Amazon's got a bunch of weaknesses around security and privacy. And they just write their application around those weaknesses. So I think those are the three evolutionary paths. I think it's a race to see who wins, right? One, two, or three? Yeah, there's no doubt that Amazon's forcing the hand of the big guys. And he's seeing that clearly. We have a question on our crowd chat. Go to crowdchat.net slash reinvent. We've got a live crowd sourced thought leader chat there. All goes to Twitter and LinkedIn, depends on what you sign in. But the question, Jerry, to you is, how are cloud providers catering to provide low latency access to developing markets like India, Indonesia, Philippines, et cetera, given that the hurricane's just destroyed all the infrastructure, considering there's huge potential explosive internet growth. So given that those new emerging markets are essentially refreshing their infrastructure, what is the cloud providers take on that? Do you work in that area? What's your, do you have any opinion on what's going on in those areas? Sure, I mean, I think that the world is looking at two or three different clouds. You say there's a US dominated cloud, maybe a China dominated cloud in the rest of the world, right? Generally a lot of analysts kind of segment the world in three major buckets. When you think about developing markets or other geographies like Asia, Southeast Asia, or South America, huge markets, a lot of developers, a lot of applications. It's the reason why I think there's only a handful of providers that can have the scope and the reach to reach globally. I think Equinex, Rackspace, Google, Microsoft are all global footprint players. Everyone else I think you're going to look at a federation of multiple players. So every region has a local telco or cloud provider. It could be like an entity or Rakutan in Japan. It could be a Singtel in Singapore and Southeast Asia. So I think you're going to see a global brand around like Amazon or VMware and VMware trying to franchise their own cloud or Microsoft and then I would see partnerships working between the different geographies and maybe OpenStack is that partnership. Maybe Amazon API is the way different clouds communicate. It remains to be seen what that interface between the different geos look like in the future. And what do you see as IBM's role? I mean, first of all, do they have that global scale? Are you sort of purposefully leaving them out or just forget about them and just don't feel like they can compete on that global scale and what do you see as their role in OpenStack? So a bunch of questions there. IBM didn't mean to leave them out. They're definitely relevant especially for the large enterprises. So I think you're seeing enterprise adoption come from large startups or small startups growing up in the cloud as well as large enterprises that are looking to modernize the applications. And I think IBM has a great role to play from kind of that top-down approach. I think IBM between a combination of a soft layers which is their acquired cloud provider combined with their global services and their consulting business will be probably relevant to large enterprises in my mind. So talk about the Amazon Enterprise March. You're obviously there talking about cloud trails which is kind of like a monitoring service compliance oriented and I'll see VDI. So you've been close to the VDI movement. So that's, those are- I started the VDI movement. Started the VDI movement. So, you know, being there, what's your take on that? Because that's very enterprise-y and that's good. Good for business. What's their, what's their chances there? Well, I think, so first on the VDI market we started that at VMware at 0506 when we coined the term VDI. And I think it's a great service for large enterprises that need secure managed desktops. I think, I would love to see a VDI service from VMware and Amazon five, six, seven years ago because now VDI I think is part of a larger solution. It's significant but not enough, right? Because now enterprises care about their managed desktops like VDI but my iPad devices, iOS devices, Android devices, they really want kind of a holistically managed desktop or workspace environment. So, if I were Amazon, I would expand beyond Windows into other, you know, operating systems to manage like Android and iOS but that's what they're serious about, you know, managing enterprise workspaces. Do they have, do they have an advantage in your opinion, despite the fact that they're so late to market? Do they have an advantage in that, and I mean, in essence, they are starting around mobile developers, aren't they? Whereas, when you started it, that wasn't a consideration, right? And Citrix sort of found its way there, right? I think between Amazon, I think Google's in a great position because they own so much of the Android stack, right? If they want to create an enterprise-friendly, managed Android environment for Chromebooks, Android devices, they can start creating a bunch of great developer services. Like, imagine Google Drive but secured on kind of a Google Cloud or something like that. That could be pretty compelling. I don't know if they're going there. I think Dropbox has a great opportunity to kind of be that back-end platform, obviously a great lock investment but Dropbox has that huge opportunity to be that kind of managed secure service across mobile devices and desktop devices because all of a sudden the one overarching fact you have between Windows, iOS, and Android is your data in Dropbox's on all three platforms. Jerry, we got to get rolling. We got our next guest coming. But I want to ask you, Ashley, talk about what you're investing in at Greylock. Greylock, tier one VC, you guys have done amazing deals. I mean, just recently in the past decade, Greylock has emerged from just a tier one VC to a mega success, good investments. You're on the enterprise team there, especially the consumer sides, kick-ass. What's going on for you guys? What are you investing in? What are you looking at? Enterprise is not an easy game to invest in, obviously it's hard. But what are you guys doing? What are you investing? What are you looking for? I'm thinking I'm looking across a category. So most relevant for this audience is I'm really interested in looking at startups that can either A, make Amazon a more enterprise-friendly cloud, or B, startups that will pose an alternative or challenge Amazon in the enterprise cloud space. And you do that either by, you know, focus on enterprise requirements, or focus on enterprise services, like data storage, security, that matters to enterprises, and just focus on doing that really, really well, better than VMware, better than Microsoft, better than Amazon. I think it built a really big enterprise cloud business around those technology services. But you're essentially betting on that transformation from, you know, the way the world is to cloud, right? It's post-overworld, known-spying servers. They're all trying to find a cloud partner. That's the direction ahead. And are you bullish on this integrated stack offering when you say DevOps has been a big success? You see Facebook, you see Google, you see Amazon building their own gear. You know, they were kind of saying we're not playing an open compute, but that aside, DevOps is a software model. And so the integrated stack, what's your comment on integrated stack and how that's going to evolve for, quote, the mainstream of DevOps? Absolutely. So you see this DevOps culture permitting first development of applications, now how you manage your infrastructure. So you look at what's happened with open compute and open-source switches, which I think OpenCPU Project announced a couple of days ago. You're seeing that kind of DevOps culture and how they manage and update their applications, permeate storage, compute, and now networking. That's going to be kind of a common adoption curve throughout the cloud. So the way DevOps technologies are getting adopted from languages to frameworks to databases is the same way we're seeing storage, compute, and networking technologies get adopted in this next cloud wave. What's your take on the iPhone for the enterprise, Amazon cloud kind of metaphor and OpenStack being more the Android. We were talking earlier, just get your thoughts there. And OpenStack also has a lot of legs right now, but it's very open. iPhone model or Amazon is kind of closed or some say lock-in, but it's still apps are not closed. Right, so the metaphor, the metaphor was, you know, iPhone is to Amazon as Android is to OpenStack. And I think at a high level that kind of makes sense, but not really because there's no Google behind OpenStack, like there's a Google behind Android. So I think Rackspace was an early leader and still is a leader in the OpenStack space, but there's also Red Hat, there's a bunch of other players there. So as a result, there's no single entity kind of driving OpenStack like Google's driving Android. So that analogy kind of breaks down. And then as for Apple analogy to Amazon, I think Amazon is a lot more open than the iOS ecosystem is because just the fact that there's no governing board to prove your apps to launch on Amazon, right? I can go stand up on an EC2 instance, I lost my application, I don't need to wait for this. There's not a 20-page approval process. So notionally, directionally that's more correct than not, but the analogy breaks down when you really get into it. And OpenStack, your prospects for OpenStack, what's your outlook on OpenStack real quick? I think OpenStack is a holistically, I think it's great. I'm more bullish on certain sub-projects than I am of the overall. I think they keep launching new projects, some are going to be better than others. They're core projects around compute and storage and this API management I'm bullish on. I'm especially bullish on what they're doing around containers like Docker and CoreOS and kind of adopting this next generation of cloud platforms. Well we got to go. We got some fans out there who want to hear your take on VDI. So go tweet to atjerrychen, J-E-R-R-Y-C-H-E-N. We got a break here. We'd love to have you on a little longer. We got our next guest coming on. This is theCUBE live in Las Vegas, day two of Amazon's re-invent, changing the cloud game and the enterprise and we've got all the detailed covers here on theCUBE. We'll be right back after this short break.