 Now welcome. I'm Colin Robertson and I'm delighted to welcome to this table. We're still waiting for David who's probably going to make a just-in-time arrival. Yes, to speak of Director General Senegas. David, thank you for joining us. And to his left, Shatanda Silva, who needs no introduction, but is the senior representative for Alberta in the United States. And of course, former Governor Bill Ritter who is now at the University of Colorado and delighted to welcome back to this forum. Well, we've spent the last couple of days. We've heard everything about how we're going to improve the grid. We've heard about coal. We've heard about oil and gas. We had the discussion on nuclear. And we've had a little bit of politics, which I think we're probably going to get into into this panel as well. But as this is the last panel before we sort of move forward, I'd like to ask you an opening question. South American energy integration, looking forward five years, what would be your rosy scenario? Because I think it has to be rosy based on what we try to do at the Global Energy Forum. Let me start with you, Governor. Well, so let's take that. What would be my rosy energy scenario? And one of that would be that we found a way to have greater integration. That there's a partnership that exists in five years that is based upon many of the things that are happening today. But we found a way to grow that. One of the previous speakers talked about North America and the energy resources here and how we could really be a hub for the rest of the world in producing energy. And I think I agree with that. And so it would be good if we built upon that. I think it would be from my perspective, right? And this is where the prior panel could well disagree. But if you look at California with a cap and trade program that's economy-wide, the fact that Quebec has already signed an agreement to be a part of that, the fact that British Columbia has this trans-Pacific partnership where it's really working with Oregon, Washington, and California and looking at the way to produce energy in an affordable way, but to decarbonize as they do that. That demonstrates, and there's far more going on in Canada than just that, but that demonstrates these two little connections. Right now Canada exports $3.4 billion a year of electricity in the United States. And that's a big export that's important. My rosy scenario would be we do not back off of the kind of trading partnerships that we have in the United States with both Canada and with Mexico on the energy and the electricity side that we haven't somehow been stymied by trade barriers or even worse, the trade war. That if there is a renegotiation of NAFTA that it has not impacted our ability to import and export both energy resources and electricity and that, in fact, what we've done is think about this in the context of, again, affordable, reliable energy, but in decarbonization and that we've sort of worked together using all the great things that Mexico is actually doing on the decarbonization state that Canada is doing and that quite frankly that a lot of the federal government has done in the past, but also the states from the United States are doing and say, what's the way for us to really be a part of this really important 21st century transition? And so the scenario would be that we haven't moved backwards or aren't looking, you know, to these things that have sort of been put in the path or could be put in the path that would involve particularly the trade stuff, the trade side of it. So free, open market, carbon pricing and North America is kind of a model for energy development to the world. My rosy scenario is not something that should be considered naive. I think carbon pricing in the United States nationwide is probably not likely to happen. There's, I think there's no real sense that even if tax reform happens, that pricing of carbon at the national level is likely to happen, but I do think if you have the fifth largest economy in the world, which is California, and they're doing economy-wide trading, there's going to be, and you have all these states in the northeast that are part of the regional greenhouse gas initiative, that there are places for both Canada and Mexico to pair their efforts on carbon and carbon pricing or even cap and trade with states like California, Oregon, Washington, possibly the, the Registrates in the northeast. Chetan, your five years from now rosy scenario. My rosy scenario is very similar to the governor's. I also think we'll see greater integration. I think that North America will be energy independent and a net exporter of energy. And I think that energy in all of its forms will flow where it's needed in the continent. So we really will see integrated infrastructure. And I think that's because a high level of integration already exists. It is very beneficial to all three countries. It would be hugely expensive to dismantle. So I think that that will continue. And I think it gives North America competitive advantage. The fact that we have reliable, secure, affordable energy sources means that we have a high quality of life, means that we have competitive industries and it's good for our consumers. So I think that will continue down that path. My other rosy vision would be, we would see greater regulatory certainty, which would lead to greater energy infrastructure. And that's all types of energy infrastructure. We see challenges right now in building wind farms, pipelines, the whole gamut. And I think that energy infrastructure is often something you only think about in its absence. And I think that five years out, if we aren't continuing to build out and get our energy to people, that that's something people will notice and it won't be a positive thing. So my hope is that in the next five years we'll be able to create this space to have a rational conversation about our energy needs and our environmental needs and how we balance those and work together to get clean energy, secure energy, affordable energy to people all across the continent. It's kind of a global energy forum writ large across North America. Right. It's an intelligent conversation. David, your view of rosy scenario of where we'll be in North America five years from now? Well, I think I completely agree with both of the patients that have been put here in the table. So we're all happily very in the same idea. I would say gas security and energy security in a general term would be, I'm sorry, the gas is just my personal professional background. But the energy security for the whole North America can be achieved in a much better way if we act together, if we really trade energy and we give national treatment to all the companies when they're doing investments throughout. And I believe that there's a lot of electricity. I've learned there's a lot of electricity potential from Canada to the rest of North America. I believe there's a lot of potential. Mexico is completely underdrilled and underexplored in its exploration and production, particularly the Gulf of Mexico and the Deep Water seem to be very attractive and that could be a solution for our oil needs for the near future. And that can be done much better with the participation of the Canadian and the U.S. companies. Okay, I'll pick up on that because we have right now the energy ministers have been meeting on a regular basis. One of the last things they decided upon was to do a mapping exercise of North America. So we do have that portrait that coming together now, thanks to the U.S. Energy Information Agency is really pointing out, as you were just underlining in Japan, the need for infrastructure and the rest. So we have now the facts. We've got kind of a roadmap. Now getting there, is it going to be the three national governments or is it going to be the kind of regional cooperation that we've seen as you were just talking about Governor and how you underlined as well the California with Quebec and Ontario and cap and trade. There are other variations on this. I mean the one thing that does come through and come through consistently in these sessions over the last years is the role of the different levels of government. It's the national government may lead, but so much is happening in terms of innovation at the state and province level. So looking forward, where is the leadership? Is it, where do you see it coming from? Governor, why don't we come back too? It's not totally known and I think there are some unknowns. We're six or seven days into the Trump administration and already the relationship between the United States and Mexico is I think open to question about where that goes. The sort of the determination to build the wall, the discussion yesterday about the possibility of 20 percent tariffs, those could really change in a very serious way. The ability for nation-to-nation agreements to happen or nation-to-nation collaboration to happen on energy we saw last May, the prime minister and the two presidents, they signed off on the Trace Amigos agreement and they had a goal for getting a certain percent of renewables by 2025. Is that kind of thing going to be possible with the things that we've seen just in the first six, seven days regarding Trump administration in some of their view toward Mexico? And my hope is that yes, that that still will be possible, that there are going to be wise heads inside of the Trump administration who will prevail and say, Mexico is a really important trading partner for us and we might figure out a way to build this wall, but we have to ensure that we keep that relationship intact, not just on the energy and the electricity side, but just if you look at states, I said this yesterday, Mexico is the second leading trading partner for the state of Colorado after Canada and that's not just true for Colorado, that's true for so many different states that we don't want our trading ability to be somehow hampered by a lack of a nation-to-nation agreement or an inability to work together. Having said that, Mexico will look to California for cap and trade because they're not going to look to the United States, which doesn't have a national rule and they're very interested in it. The part of the energy reform is to think about pricing carbon. I think the national pricing of carbon in Canada, they're going to also look to experiences of the states who have been somehow involved in that or are considering that and may even pair their national effort with states because after all, if it's a wider market, there actually is a better way to price carbon at the end of the day. So I do think the states will have a role in some parts of this, but I hope upon hope that at the national level, there is still the kind of dialogue that allows us to move forward in really this 21st century energy transition in a positive way among the three countries. You worked for both federal government and now provincial government here in Washington. Can we do this if the Trump administration is not on side? Because we've, somebody who was member of the team that negotiated first the Canada U.S. and then the North American Fertility Agreement, my view was that the United States had to be there. It had to be the glue of the administration to bring Canada and Mexico and the United States together. We can do a certain amount to Canada and Mexico together, but you really do need the United States and it has been the driving dream of American presidents arguably since Franklin Roosevelt, particularly Ronald Reagan and then George H. W. Bush and then forward who, so Trump in that sense is an aberration. Is that fair, Governor? Well, I do think that's right. I think that, you know, it was interesting to me that NAFTA became such a serious talking point for Donald Trump. I think the folks before, I think, said it pretty well. They said, listen, there are parts of NAFTA that could be renegotiated. It's, you know, this old, and what we don't know is, do we mean renegotiating little parts of it and just ensuring that it's the right kind of trade agreement among the three countries? Or do we mean upending it so that it's only about what benefits America with Mexico and Canada becoming sort of subsidiaries? Well, if we, any kind of renegotiation or reopening of NAFTA, which I guess we're into, my presumption is the provinces will want to be at the table in the same way they were at the Canada-Europe trade agreement because so much of what in a enlarged agreement, because remember the energy chapter in the NAFTA is really pretty slim because Mexico at that point had a very different view. I mean, that's been the great sea change over the past 20 years as the Mexican approach. So if we are into it, what do you think the provinces, the province like Alberta, will want to be part of that? Oh, absolutely. And we have, so every province has their own trade policy team and trade negotiators and you're right, we were at the table every step of the way for the CETA and then as well for the TPP. So there's an expectation in Canada now that the provinces will be fully at the table and we're having those conversations with our federal government. As we've said, we're prepared to renegotiate. So we're outletting what our priorities areas are for us. I mean, of course, energy is hugely important for Alberta agriculture as well. We have big agriculture ties not only with the United States but with Mexico. The labour mobility provisions are very important for us as well. So, you know- We're making provisions now which we would want to see in an agreement. That's right. And we really don't know, right? I mean, we talked about this a bit yesterday that's as much you make an offer but you also have to respond. So what we're doing right now is making sure that, you know, our core interests are part of that conversation and then once we see what else is on the table, we'll navigate from there. David, Mexico. Again, I think it would take a radically different view towards an energy chapter or an energy standalone deal this time around in terms of North America. Of course. And let me just start by saying that I truly believe, I think just like the Governor, that at the end economic and geopolitical reason will prevail and that Mexico and the United States and Canada will continue to be partners and make North America stronger all the time. Having said that, it's very interesting because with this opening of the energy sector in Mexico, it's been very clear the energy ministry, the federal energy ministry at Mexico has been working very closely with Alberta and with Texas in particular because there are the two main oil and gas places and clearly with California in terms of the electricity, cap and trade and the carbon. So there is no lack of willingness to work with the local governments in North America. They're very good and they're much stronger than the local governments in Mexico and it makes a lot of sense to work and to collaborate and we have a great collaboration with Alberta and we're looking forward and we're doing a lot with California too. So in a sense, maybe this agreement starts kind of bottoms up building on all the existing relationships, particularly those which are taking place at the different levels of government, provinces and states which already have a lot moving forward. Has the Trump election, what effect is that having on, we heard Kerry talking about public opinion in the United States. Give us a sense of public opinion in Mexico and how open they'd be towards a- I won't do that. I'm just the director general for Senegal and I'll let the federal government speak for itself and it's very delicate and you do hurt some feelings when these things happen. At the end, I think reason and geopolitical interest will be right. Well, let me ask another tough question. These reforms have been major and structural and as we've heard over the last couple of days, still have a couple of years to go. Would you envisage the next administration, would pick them up and carry them forward because it was, after all, a kind of pacto Mexica at the outset with the parties in favor, but you've got López Obrador, somebody who doesn't necessarily a piece of this. Today there is no pacto in that sense that has broken down. We have to go through federal elections in two years' time. I believe, again, that economic reason will prevail and that almost regardless of the party that comes, that there will be an interest to continue pursuing the structural reforms because I firmly believe that that's what Mexico needs to go forward. Nevertheless, there will be a lot of politics around this when the election comes around and there will be people talking about this stuff and these type of short-term disencounters don't help us to progress. That's all we can see. Bill, going forward, because we talked about a future, we'll have to rename what we've got probably, sort of old wine, new label kind of thing, but do you think that the Trump administration is capable of actually coming through with a negotiation that will come up with a kind of new North American, some kind of agreement, or is it more likely to be bilateral? Because, of course, the great vision for so much, the vision of this conference, has been of George Schultz just the other day talking about what has been a North American concept, but are we moving now to a kind of Canada-U.S., Canada-Mexico, U.S., Canada-U.S., Mexico? So I think that's unknown. Actually, we talked about this backstage. That would be the default position if, in renegotiated NAFTA, you cannot get to a place of agreement as three countries about particularly what kind of the labor provisions, what the tariffs are, what the trade relationship, what it means to move goods in and out, what it means to move electricity in and out, or even energy resources. So it could default to that and my hope is that it would not. And because if it does, then you're doing something differently than was talked about by the last panelist, when they talked about what a great energy hub this is. This forum I mentioned yesterday, the North American Forum, The Great Hope, and George Schultz was the founder of that, along with Canadian and Pedro Aspe from Mexico. The hope on that was to build upon these relationships so that we were stronger. And it wasn't just about trade, it was also about security. And it was about securitizing the United States of America along with Mexico and Canada as a geographic area in a time where we hoped to protect us from other outside difficult influences from the world. So it's not just about trade, not just about energy. It's about all of these things. And I think if we are in a place of doing all this bilaterally, it's absolutely inferior to our ability to do it as a geographic area together. So, Tam, what would you, I presume you'd agree with that approach? I think that I really hope that we're able to find a path forward together, all three of us. I think that at the provincial level it would be far easier for us. I think it is to your point about having the United States in the middle. Alberta has very close ties with Mexico, both at the federal level, and we have some twinning agreements with states. And so for us to continue that relationship, it's helpful if all three of us are together. So I think we just have to hope that things, like you say, cooler heads prevail. We do more than hope. One of the comments in the last panel is the importance of letting legislators know, particularly in Congress, when that was pretty clear from Senator Herner talking about the important role that Congress does play. Will there be encouragement, do you think, over the weekend to sort of, given what we've witnessed this week, do you reckon, Governor, to the Trump administration to perhaps recalibrate, or do you think we just have to? I absolutely have to think that. And so this, let's talk about Mexico in particular, because I don't think the anxiety about NAFTA comes from losing jobs to Canada. Although there's a great deal of manufacturing happening in Canada that mirrors many of the things that once happened in the United States. But most of it, I think 60% of it we reckon, is the GEs and the GMs. In other words, it's inter-company trade, which is increasingly what North America's become. Yeah, I mean, as Governor, I did an economic development trip to Ontario. I did it one to Alberta, two different reasons, but it was manufacturing in the Ontario, on the Ontario side, just because you could look to that and say, this looks so much like the Midwestern United States 10 or 15 years ago. Awesome jobs, but that's not been the discussion. And so my hope is that the people like Cory Gardner, who I have a great deal of respect for, he served in the House while I was Governor of Colorado, that he is able to look and say, Mexico's a big trading partner, and have a voice with the administration to say, just be careful about how we talk about Mexico and about the kinds of things we might do to damage or somehow impede our ability to negotiate with Mexico and to trade with Mexico, and state by state by state. The state of Texas is, as you mentioned, right, they share an entire basin. It's an oil and gas basin, they need to cooperate, need to work together. The governor of Texas should be on the phone with the Trump administration saying, listen, this is a really important trading partner for us, for a variety of reasons, and that the states can give sort of some bottom-up pressure and senators and House members from those states to say, we have to honor this relationship with Mexico, we might want to renegotiate some things, but they are not the enemy. We have a former governor who will be Secretary of Energy, and we have a former governor whose state, their biggest trading partner was Canada, who's now the vice president, so should Tan. I was just going to say this is an instance where I think those state provincial ties are so very, very important. I mean, we as Alberta are very engaged in Western Governors Association and a number of other subnational fora, and this is really where the primers and the governors need to speak to each other to make sure that we're on the same page, because I think, I was friends with the Mexican ambassador in Ottawa at one point, and he said there's a saying in Spanish where the chair forms your view of where you sit, forms your worldview, and so I work for a province now, and my view is that we have great influence, and these ties are really important, and it's at this subnational level where jobs are really created. The federal government and your policy leavers are different. At the subnational level, you have different responsibilities, and so making sure that our voices are heard to the federal government so they fully understand the impacts on our communities. If the point is to generate more jobs and they need to understand the negative impact of taking trade packs apart. Do we need what Governor Hickenlooper a couple of years ago hosted a North American Governors and Premiers Conference, and we'll know it all attended. Do we need another kind of boost from that to the kind of antidote or another perspective to perhaps send a message to Washington? Should the Canadian Premiers and Mexican Governors be going down in February to the National Governors Conference because it meets in Washington, we may by that point have infrastructure bill going to seek reciprocity on procurement, for example, and particularly as it relates to energy. Are these the kind of things that the Premiers, for the Canadian Premiers, not just the Western ones, are very involved with the Western Governors Association, and we added some really productive things that happened. While I was there, they continued to do that. I've had a discussion here at this conference about how I work with governors on energy policy out of my Colorado State University Center, and there'd be a reason for us to really convene governors in Mexico along with some Mexican experts about how to strengthen the subnational role in developing energy and electricity systems at the state level in Mexico, much as it happens here. It's not perfect, and there's a lot we can still improve upon, but you said before states are pretty strong here, and there's a reason to try and help Mexico build that at the subnational level because then it actually winds up surviving different administration changes. Yes, and that's one of the great advantages of what we had in a sense with why we do seek institutions, because they often do transcend administrations and form the basis, which is why this current situation is challenging to all, particularly to Mexico. It's probably time for some questions for the audience. Our first question in, and I'll pose this to First Jatam and then David. Jatam, would Canada join a TPP without the United States, and then would Mexico join a TPP? Oh my goodness. Why don't work for the federal government anymore? So I can't say for sure. Well, I think there was, from an Alberta perspective, there were a lot of positives there. I mean, for us, for our agriculture exports, TPP is a big priority for us in terms of investment flows. So we were supportive of the agreement because we did see a big upside for beef and canola. That's huge for us in the Asian market, but I think we would have to see, are this our major export market? 87% of what Alberta exports comes to the United States. So we would have to be careful in terms of making sure that we are not upsetting the apple cart to abruptly. I mean, we are, of course, looking as everyone is for new markets and to diversify our economy, but I think we need to figure out how to navigate those waters and work in partnership with the federal government. And just to answer the question, under the terms of the TPP, you needed a critical number of economies to join, and if the US were not to join, then in fact the TPP doesn't, you'd have to renegotiate it, which is possible, but I think we'd probably be looking at other kinds of packs, you know, Mexico with the Pacific Alliance, maybe Canada gets more involved in that. Well, David, the question to you then. The question, I can't answer in the name of the Mexican federal government. Personally, I think that Mexico will continue to look to get as many treaties bilateral and multilateral in which it can get involved. It's shown to be a very good idea for the Mexican manufacturing sector. It gives it a competitive advantage and it allows it to be much more flexible. Our main goal is North America, and the rest is the rest. And North America is the past majority of our experts and imports, and that's where we would like to stay focused. But you too have been negotiating trade agreements. In fact, I think you've got more free trade agreements than anybody else, I think, so yes. This next question for you. Why is it Mexico doing more to partner with California and Colorado on energy? What are specific steps that you could take in general to build a much stronger relationship on the ground, not on paper? Well, I am not working at the ministry right now. My understanding is that there is a strong collaboration with California. I think that the fact that the Undersecretary of Energy was here at this conference is also a very good signal of their willingness to work with the state of Colorado. I find this whole conference quite interesting and very different from the traditional conference I attend in Texas, which is very industry and very narrow. This is very broad and very policy oriented and it's a great experience. I think this is a good starting point to form a better relationship with the government of Colorado, of course. I would say a couple of things. To the extent you're talking about oil and gas, when you talk about trading relationships, they're just closer bigger markets. Colorado has an enormous oil and gas market, but Texas has a bigger market and is in proximity closer to Mexico, and it would make sense to pipe in oil and gas from Colorado if you have it available closer. Having said that, today there was a wire service where one of the producers off of the Western slope talked a little bit about what came out this idea, about a 20% tariff on incoming goods, and he said, we don't think the Trump administration is really going to do this because the Trump administration cares a great deal about the oil and gas industry and that would harm the oil and gas industry even in Colorado. And so there is that. The second thing, and Chris Brown is here from Vestas, but once upon a time I think Mexico was actually importing Vestas turbines manufactured in Colorado into Mexico. So I think there are a variety of ways that this might happen. Our other relationship with Mexico as a second largest trading partner is other goods and services in addition to some energy things, but we have other things as well and I think we do everything we can to foster that partnership and Governor Hickaloooper has gone to Mexico for that reason, so. Chetan, next question to you. Does Alberta have specific plans for greater cooperation with states on climate? Yeah, so we are looking for those opportunities and we've had, in my job, I travel all across the U.S. and it's one of the things I talk to states about. So, you know, we're not looking to enter to join California's cap and trade, but we are looking for other opportunities, you know, talking to states like Colorado on the methane front and how we can better work together there, talking to other states about what they've done on renewables and how we can learn from them and export some of their best practices. And we are also members, in addition to being active in WGA, we participate in council state governments. That's right. So we're active in a number of subnational organizations with a view to exchanging ideas and looking for partnerships. Governors, there's also the Legislator's Pacific Northwest Economic Region. And how much with Mexico? Because, of course, as you talked yesterday about the Alberta Energy Regulator and the relationship with the Mexican government, my presumption is there's a fair bit taking place now, including Alberta Company's active. Yes, so we do. In the oil and gas space, in the energy space, we have a number of companies that are active there. Agriculture is our biggest partnership with Mexico, I would say. And the other thing is Alberta plays a role in the Canada-Mexico partnership at the federal level. We do have a number of educational exchanges in particular, where we see a number of students from Mexico. I mean, our University of Calgary has a very strong petroleum engineering program, and they're very active with counterparts in Mexico. So it is fairly broad. Let me add that the first non-Pemex company to get a barrel of oil after the reform is an Alberta company. And we have signed agreements both with the University of Calgary, with the University of Alberta, and with the Polytechnical Institute. We're doing a lot of collaboration in that sense. We're very clear, particularly from my point of view, there's a very interesting program on pipeline engineering at the University of Calgary. So we're looking into that, and we're looking at ways in which we can use that knowledge and get as much possible done. Now that it's easier to get to Canada with the lifting of the visa, we'll hopefully have more people going. And we have direct flights. Is it a start in July or something? That's right. That's right. Yes. All right, Governor, with President Trump's vision of America First, what steps are required to achieve both this vision and the energy integration between nations? Can you have both energy America First and energy integration? Yeah, I think so. Listen, I think if you see the value of all of the things that we do to import and export, as I said, natural resources. So oil and gas flows across the Canadian border into the United States. But we also import oil from Mexico. We export gas to Mexico. And there's just a variety of really positives around that import-export market. But there's also a lot of electricity that crosses borders. We talked about the Mexico energy systems that is imported into the United States, but all that we import from Canada, those kinds of things actually wind up having a very positive benefit on American consumers. So if you want to make America First and think about the consumer, and you're also concerned about jobs at the same time, I think there is a way to think about this where you can't have both. But it's going to be a game of finesse. It's not something that you get with blunt force trauma. You have to be able, and anybody that's been involved in diplomacy or negotiating or any kind of economic development mission that a governor ever goes on, but certainly at that level that a president goes on, these things are delicate matters because everybody's there. And they are all trying to protect their nation's self-interest first. But there is give and take that's required and you don't get there unless you're willing to be, therefore, give and take. It's not give or take. Oh, which is what we'll be into. I'm reminded of a cartoon in the Canadian newspaper which had the American eagle and then the Mexican eagle and the Canadian beaver coming up and it's a big sign saying America First and the Canadian and the Mexican are right over top of it, North America First. So I think we hope maybe that's how we get there. And perhaps President Trump's vision will enlarge some more time he spends in the White House and perhaps talking to some of his former colleagues. Another question for you, Governor, what are your thoughts on exporting coal, especially in the time of climate change? Yeah, so I heard that in the last meeting and I just think if you look at the Paris agreement, whether the United States sort of stays in it or not, China, which was considered sort of the hoped for export market for coal, China has decided we're peaking. China burns about half of the world's coal, 50% of all the world's coal and they've decided listen and not really just for climate change and maybe not even primarily for climate change, it's for public health reasons, but they are not going to burn more coal. They have access to domestic coal, they have access to other import markets that are closer and it's just probably not going to be a real place that we should pursue an export market. I totally agree with the prior panel that said if you really want to work on climate, we have to think about carbon capture and sequestration, carbon capture and utilization, carbon capture for enhanced oil recovery because not just of China, but China and India. And so our effort should be I think on the R&D side and then you might have an export market where you didn't have to look at the climate detriment from exporting coal, but to the extent we're not going to build new coal fire generation in the United States anytime soon and that the major coal burning countries either have an import market in existence or they are deciding we peaked and now we're just going to find ways to take coal down. We should not think about this as an export market and spend a lot of time or energy trying to create one. Shetan a few years ago talked to Premier Klein of Alberta and he pointed out that Alberta has even vaster reserves of coal than oil and gas and I put this to question you as well Governor and one of the things that Premier Klein said to me you know 30 years ago no one thought we could ever do what we did in terms of developing the oil sands just simply was technologically not possible. He looking forward he said I can see a day when we can perhaps have something like clean coal. You know research going on about that Governor I know you look at the looking forward could you envisage a time when we could potentially have clean coal and is there work that is ongoing that you're aware of? I know there's is some work going on in Alberta. Yes so the current government so past governments in Alberta we've invested about I think it's about 10 percent of the world's public sector money investments in carbon capture and sequestration have come from the Alberta government. So we have two projects in the province but the current government is not investing further money in part just because of our budget situation with the depressed price of oil the money just isn't there to continue. It's not off the table but it's just not a priority for the government right now. We've made this decision in terms of our electricity to get off of coal so it's not a market we're looking to expand. Saskatchewan however the province next door is a coal producer and a coal consumer and they've they are pursuing that path. So Sask Power in partnership with industry has brought online the boundary dam project which is the zero emissions coal fired electrical utility where they sequester the emissions right on site. So there is still work going on on that in Canada but it's not happening in Alberta. Yeah so again this is an open question we have carbon capture and sequestration projects we have in northwestern Colorado and enhanced oil recovery carbon capture and sequestration and the question is absent enhanced oil recovery can you do this in a way that's economic and can you do it particularly in a world with really low price natural gas and pretty low price wind the price of wind you know is three cents a kilowatt hours I said yesterday and in Colorado less than that in Texas and carbon capture and sequestration does not work in that kind of an environment unless there's a way to do it in a different economic fashion. So what the real research I would say is in a lot of research universities particularly is carbon capture and utilization. Can you make some use of it that gives you this economic benefit and then compete can't compete with low price natural gas with low price renewables. We haven't talked cyber yet but cyber is something that of course General Hayden raised and is a big piece in the security of North American energy integration. There had been reports at New York Times that the Chinese were looking at how we managed the grid system for example. This is obviously an error tell me is Mexico taking we're looking at this as hard as the others David is this. I can talk first in agas in agas is buying the new scala system which we're buying from Albert. Tell me that Schneider Electric there it has the is the world leader in scala systems and we're particularly worried about the scala system protecting it from cyber attacks. So we're looking out with everybody and the biggest firms all around the world to see which is the best way to protect and there's a lot to be learned from one another because a lot of the way in which you protect yourself is practices. So there's only so much you can do to put up the firewalls after that it's your people and how they operate and how you open and close doors in the systems that actually matters. So that's that's what we're looking into and of course we're all worried about cybersecurity. It's a big threat. It hasn't been a big deal in Mexico yet but that doesn't mean that it's not bound to happen. I thought the general's comment that we really should be looking at the private sector to be the leaders in this one rather than government is something that has been picked up. I know there are panels that Governor make sense to you. Yeah I don't have much to add to that. I thought the general's presentation last night was fantastic. It was one of just the best ways I've heard of somebody dealing with security issues with threat issues. When he got to cybersecurity his discussion about this. This is something I was involved in. I was the prosecutor for Denver Colorado the District Attorney and the National DA's. We're looking at cybersecurity issues and our own sort of role as enforcement people and so much has changed so quickly on the technology front but I think Senator Gardner said it as well. The government and the private sector both have to do more on the cybersecurity side to get our arms around this because I think there's still some vulnerability. We are probably going to go into some kind of reopening of the NAFTA presuming that the president's prime ministers are able to meet without by not by Twitter but perhaps the in person which I think is a better way of doing diplomacy. If they were to go and sit down as they discussed energy what would be your top three priorities and this will be my last question for each of you. If you were to sort of say to President Pineda these are the three big things I want in terms of energy in a in a North American energy accord. An agreement to further integrate free flow of integrate broadly this is grids this is everything yes we should integrate energetically it makes a lot of sense to integrate the whole region and and it gives it great competitiveness that's that's the fact I mean if you want America the consumer in America to be better the consumer in Canada to be better the Mexican consumer to be better we're all going to do it if we can have competitive economies and we can do that if we have the cheapest possible energy which is at the same time has high standards in terms of environmental so I think that the the list would be integration environmental measures and assurance of national treatment for everybody. Excellent. I would add to that you know we was strongly as Canada and Alberta deliver the message that Canada's and Alberta's energy sector is a job creator here in the United States to the point about by American higher American we're a big contributor to that and it is the net positive for both countries. The other thing I would say for us is regulatory clarity and certainty and as much as possible complementarity or integration whatever the right word is but so that industry can make investments and we can continue to get our energy to people we need to work together and have a clear process with clear timelines and so that people can make decisions and know when they'll have an outcome. So there are so many parts and again this comes from the last panel senator Gardner talked about NAFTA and how it actually created jobs in a state like Colorado and what I would hope is that we don't back off of the job creating potential that's actually existed in all three countries that arise out of an open and free trade between the three countries from a governor's perspective taken off my energy and electricity hat I would just hope also that there's nothing done in negotiating or renegotiating NAFTA that impairs the state's ability to have that kind of a trade relationship with Mexico and with Canada and that you know there's this sense that it's not a demon right there's a lot about NAFTA that has been very positively experienced by all three countries but states inside those countries have benefited from that and I don't want to walk back from that. Well there you have it optimism from our three looking forward into North American integration and not just optimism but a plan of action that can be taken to the table. Please join me in thanking Governor Ritter, Tanda Silva and David Madero.