 Hello, everybody. We're going to go ahead and get started. This is part three of the Foundation for Advancement and Conservation's National Heritage Responders Salvaging Fire Damage Item Series. Today's program will focus on salvaging book and paper materials. The group of volunteers who worked on today's webinar includes Luca Ackerman, Danya Khan, Leanne Nau, and Victoria Wong. If you have questions, please feel free to put them in the chat or in the Q&A box throughout the program and we will take questions as they come in. Otherwise, I'm going to hand it over to Danya to start today's presentation. Thank you, Elena, and welcome everybody. It's always great to be doing a webinar for folks, but in this circumstance, I wish it were under happier circumstances. We're going to cover quite a few different things today. We're going to be thinking about exercising caution when we think about responding to our disaster. We're going to think about some of the basic tenants to keep in mind as we're salvaging our materials. We're going to talk about what we need to do in terms of a damage assessment and why we do one. We're going to look at how we can move damage items safely. We're going to talk a little bit about air drying. I know this is a fire-focused webinar, but when you are dealing with a fire, inevitably in some way, shape, or form, you are dealing with water as well, whether it's from putting out the fire or if your items have been exposed to the natural elements before you can get to them. And then finally, we're going to give you a brief introduction to soot removal. So we're going to start with exercising caution. And soot is very dangerous for your health. It contains a lot of toxins, particularly when our modern building materials and our modern plastics are burned. If we were all living in the 18th century and all we had were wood and fabrics, natural fabrics that might not be so bad, but because we have so many plastics that break down into really dangerous chemicals, we want to be exercising a lot of caution when dealing with soot. So we want to make sure we are wearing personal protective equipment, those PPE. And that includes nitrile gloves. And generally we recommend nitrile because a lot of people are allergic to latex and plus the nitrile gloves come in prettier colors. You can get our, you know, wonderful N95 masks that so many of us got used to wearing during COVID. Or if you have been approved by a doctor, you can get air purifying half respirators. You want to wear goggles and glasses are not goggles. You want to be sure you've got eye protection that covers you from above below and from the sides and not just from the front. You want to be wearing good sturdy work shoes. We don't want to add tetanus on top of everything else. And then you want to wear a Tyvek suit. Yes, I know they're incredibly hot. They make you sweat like there's no tomorrow. But it's better than bringing home all of those toxins from the soot on your clothing into your car and into your homes. So in that vein as well, even if you're wearing a Tyvek suit, you probably want to bring a change of clothes so that you can change your clothes before you get into your car. You want to put what you were wearing shoes included into a garbage bag so that you aren't spreading that soot. This is just a really good practice to get into from the very beginning because you really don't want to be spreading the soot. That's just a really brief comment on some of the health and safety issues you want to take. We did do as our first webinar, a specific health and safety topic, and so you can get this on YouTube from the link there. And we will be giving you the slide deck from today's webinar, as well as a resource for you so that you have these links already written down for you so you don't feel like you have to be writing everything down right now. In addition to wearing PPE, there are just certain health and safety issues that you want to take when responding to any sort of disaster, but fire in particular. You want to work in pairs. We all learned in kindergarten about the buddy system, and it's really one of those life lessons that we should just carry through all the way through to the end of time. And because when you're working in pairs, you have someone watching out for you, and you're also watching out for someone else. So you tend to be more aware of the tripping, the slipping, the straining hazards and things like that. So it makes you more aware, but you also have that buddy so that if you get into danger, there is someone who can either help you at that moment, or go and get help if that is necessary. We need to remember that our building materials may be dangerous after being disturbed. So, you know, if we've got a building structure that's gone through a fire, we don't know how stable those studs are in our building is the wall going to come down on us. You know, the stuff that we are walking on how stable is that, and is there going to be a hole beneath us that we could fall through so we really need to be thinking about kind of the structural issues, but we also need to think about what our building was constructed with. So, did we have lead paint in the building so as we're going through are we going to be disturbing the lead dust. You know, was there asbestos, you know, we all know that we really shouldn't be breathing in asbestos. So, we need to make sure that if we know that there are these sorts of materials in our buildings that were aware of that and we're exercising extra caution. And so really knowing your building is going to be important. And, you know, this isn't maybe not something that we as curators of our collections or as homeowners really pay that much attention to. But it is an important thing to keep in the back of your mind. Always exercise a lot of caution. And then finally, we just, oops, sorry. We just don't know who may have decided to take refuge in the piles of, you know, rubble, unfortunately. And so it's always important to move items out of the way and not, you know, reach your hand into dark and enclosed spaces because you just don't know who or what may be lurking there. That really doesn't want to be disturbed. So when we go to salvage our collections, there are some basic tenants that we want to keep in the back of our mind. And first is look, don't touch. We really want to do an assessment before we start moving anything around, because if we can assess the situation, document our needs and plan, we're going to be able to be much more efficient and much more successful at salvaging our collections. And efficiency in the end really means that it's going to cost you less money. And a lot less time. So that assessment, documenting and planning stage is really important. More items are going to be salvageable than you think. You know, ceilings and floors can collapse and that actually does protect things in the event of a fire. So you may have items under piles or in your basements that actually manage to survive. You want to handle damaged items very carefully and as little as possible. If you pick things up, you want to know where you're going to put it down. And you want to document where items were located. And a really good reference for doing this work is First Aid for Cultural Heritage in Time of Crisis. It really walks you through all of the steps in a lot of detail. This is not a resource that you've known about in the past. I really highly recommend downloading it right now. So we want to look and not touch. So in assessing the damage, again, this is where we want to work in pairs. We want to have one person taking photographs. We want to have one person taking notes. And the person taking notes is going to want to be looking at the health and safety needs that you might have looking at the building needs you might have, and also looking at the collection needs. People is an absolute minimum at best. You want three to four so that you can have one person taking pictures and two or three people focusing on those other three topics. And again, if you're going in with three people, you all three are going to stay together because you don't want one person off on their own. If you go in with four people you can break up into two groups of two and still be safe that way. You want to take a lot of photographs or videos of the damage. And this is where practically all of us having smartphones and having cameras and you know video cameras in our pockets at all times really helps. One of the things to be a little bit cautious of is if you are working as part of a government entity and the government and you want to share those photographs, the government can just take your whole phone. So you might want to have a separate digital camera for something like that. But you really want to take a lot of photographs, it's going to be a great way for you to be able to get more information, because while you're in the situation. It can be very overwhelming and you might miss things. So the photographs are going to help you go back when you're in a location of safety and more calm that you can look at things a little bit more rationally. The photographs are also going to be very good if you have insurance and you need to make an insurance claim. But they're also going to be really good for any sort of fundraising you may want to do because there isn't anything better than showing the images of just what's happened to let people know that yes you really do need the help. Taking notes to clarify the photographs is going to be great, but it's also a way to capture those other senses that we can't yet on photographs and videos like what something smells like or what something sounds like, or what something feels like even though you're really not supposed to be touching yet. And another resource that we might be able to use, but not always our drones and that's going to give you just that third angle that you can't necessarily get when you're standing on the ground. But just know that in certain federally declared disaster areas or other state declared disaster areas or even just some areas within your state. It's not legal for you to fly a drone. So before you do any sort of drone work, be sure you check what the regulations are in your state and in your area for the particular instance that you want to be using a drone. And if you do use a drone also respect your neighbors and really just focus on your property and your property alone. We also want to be assessing what we have to salvage during this damage assessment. So you really want to look at what's been damaged, how much has been damaged, how much is salvageable. And in many ways, what is actually going to be salvageable and what's worth salvaging. So sometimes what you may find is that you have a lot of office furniture that's been damaged. That's the sort of stuff you don't really maybe need to worry as much about it can be replaced. Focus on what can't be replaced and what you do really need to salvage but also keep in the back of the mind what you are going to need to replace because you do need that information. And while you're doing this assessment of what you have to salvage and how much you have to salvage, that's also going to be telling you what sorts of supplies you're going to need, what sort of space you're going to need for doing your triage and salvage. So it's a really good idea to be thinking about when you're assessing what you see. If you take a look at the image that we have here, if you break this down into a grid, you can start to get a better sense of how much you have and what you have by focusing on little segments rather than trying to do the whole room as a single unit, because that way, again, it can get very overwhelming. And when you're assessing what you see, you don't have to be coming up with everything all on your own. In the objects webinar, our colleagues shared the form that you can get from the field guide to emergency response, which is available from AIC. But there's also the guidelines for small museums for writing a disaster preparedness plan from AICCM, and it just gives you a little bit more simplified form to be working from. And maybe what you do is you come up with your own form that you can work with more easily because you know your collections and your institution the best. But having some sort of form that lets you be consistent in your note taking is going to help a lot when you go to plan. So, you know, be really thinking about how you can be consistent in your note taking, as well as in your photography. So, again, we are going to be talking about books, paper and photographs in this webinar. If you have objects, we did have a separate objects webinar that you can go watch. It was yesterday in case you missed it. And again, it is going to be available on the FAIC YouTube channel. And that also has a lot of really good information on doing a damage assessment focusing on objects. So it's another good one to check out. So once you have done your damage assessment, and you have made your plan, and you know what you're going to be moving and where you're going to be moving it. There are things that you need to think about in terms of moving. So, if you have things that are in stacks or stuck together. Don't try to separate them before you move them just move them as a single entity into your triage area, because it's going to be safer for you to be working on separating things when you're not in the middle of the debris and the chaos that is your disaster site. You always want to use two hands to move something, even if they're small. So if you're thinking about books or pieces of paper you're not just going to grab things with one hand. You always want to use two hands to to provide as much support as you can for larger items. The planning comes in and having supplies that you can use as supports for moving larger items. This can be just sheets of cardboard. It can be window screening, it can be old sheets that you have, but just something to essentially give kind of that hammock to your fragile items for smaller items. You know, cookie sheets, you know, box lids, you know those the when you get the photocopier boxes of paper, you know, the lids from those boxes work great as trays. Just about anything that has sides that has a good rigid support works really well for transporting items as well. And then boxes are great things for books. So, you know, but just always be thinking about providing support and for really large things, you may need two people to move them. So if you've got maps or something that you're finding or really large pieces, having two people makes it much safer, not only for the object but for the people involved as well because you're not trying to maneuver and handle large things in an unsafe area. So when you are moving things or preparing to move your things, you do want to be thinking about having a clear path to your triage area. You want to make sure there's no debris on the floor, particularly when you're moving larger objects. Because if you're moving larger objects on your own, you may not necessarily be able to see the ground in front of you and if you're moving with two people, inevitably one person has to go backwards. So making sure you have a clear path is going to make it safer for that person to be moving backwards as well. You also want to make sure that all doors are propped open. If you, you know, have doors between, say, the space that you're working and the van or the truck that items are going in to be transported. You want to make sure all these doors are open and kept open so that you don't have to actually set the item down to open the door and pick the item up again. Again, it's minimizing the number of times that you have to actually pick up and put down your item. For books in particular, you don't want to stack them, whether they're wet or if they're sooty stacking does start to create a lot of pressure on books and if you stack them too high that weight itself can be really damaging. If you find your books are splayed open, keep them the way that you found them. So if the book is open, don't try to try to close it to move it, leave them as they are and transport them that way. Again, it's like some of those stacks that are stuck together. It's better to work on the object in a more controlled environment than in the disaster situation. Again, if they're stuck together, don't try to remove them. The boxes are great for moving multiple books in the ideal world. They would go spine down in the box, but you know we're not working in the ideal world. So laying them flat in a box is a good idea and just make sure that again, you're not putting too many things in one box, largely because books are heavy. You don't want to create a straining problem and have people get injured trying to carry too many things at one time. More trips is better than trying to carry too much weight and damage objects or injure yourself in the process. And again, carrying boxes means you generally can't see your feet and so making sure you have a clear path to where you need to go is going to be important. I know we're focusing again on fire, but sometimes your items might be damp and there are special things that you need to do if your items are damp or wet. So first of all, in your triage area, you want to make sure that your tables are covered with an absorbent material, such as blotting paper or white bath towels. You can use just plain cotton sheets if you can get a hold of blank newsprint that works great as well. Basically any sort of absorbent material that doesn't have any printing on it is going to be a good idea. If you use regular newsprint, of course we know that that newsprint, the ink itself rubs off onto you. And you don't want to add stuff to what already has a problem. And if you get anything with a lot of color printing, if things are damp, that color could bleed, so we want to avoid that as well. If you're dealing with documents or photographs, you want to lay them out in a single layer. And for photographs, you want to put those face up and I'll get to a little bit more about that in just a second. You want to stand up and fan out books to let them get dried if they are stable enough to do that and sometimes your books won't be. So let the object tell you how strong it's feeling and, you know, dry it appropriately. So we want to do photographs and slides and negatives emulsion side up to keep them to get them drying, and then we want to keep the air moving using fans, but you don't want to point the fans directly at the items. Partly because that's going to stir up soot a lot more, but it's also going to blow your objects around once they dry and again, we don't want to do any more damage than has already occurred. If we've got framed items, we want to carefully remove those framed items from the frame, if we can. You want to be doing that unframing in an area that's separate to where we're going to be drying, or, you know, triaging our items because we don't want to spread the soot from, you know, our dirty area to our clean area we want to try to keep the triage area as clean as we possibly can. It's going to be impossible to keep it clean, but the cleaner we can keep it the better it's going to be not only for the objects but for us as well. If the work is stuck to the glass, either if it's a photograph that the emulsion has stuck to the glass, or if you don't use glass and are using plastic, and the plastic has melted then the really important step is to get as good of a digital image as you can of that object before you try to remove it from the frame, just in case anything happens. Do not separate photographic album pages. It's best to leave those as they are for the time being. And you want to assess any original housing and keep it intact so that all the contents can be cleaned and placed directly into newer replacement housing materials. And I want to just mention that when you're air drying items, particularly documents and photographs, you might not have enough tabletop space to put everything in one layer, but a really great way to add spaces to essentially build multiple stories, and it's really easy to take window screens and just solo cups and start stacking them up so that you have multiple layers that items can be drying in tears, rather than having sprawl, you can go up. Removing soot and ash from paper based materials and photographic materials is very difficult, and it should be done with caution, and it should be done slowly. So when you go to try to remove soot and ash from your dry materials, rule number one is to continue wearing all of your PPE for this type of work. The Tyvek suits, the goggles, the gloves, the mask or the respirator are again all there to keep you protected. This might be the time though if you don't have a lot of debris that you can switch to comfortable sneakers rather than work boots. But your location of where you're doing this work is going to dictate what safe footwear is for you. You only want to dry clean items that are completely dry and stable. Because soot is really sticky and difficult to remove, so you want to make sure that that item is as stable as possible. And again, before dry cleaning any item that has soot, getting a really good digital image before you start cleaning is important because you just never know what might happen. Paper, when it has gone through a fire. Even if it has come out looking like it's perfectly fine, that paper is going to be inherently more brittle than it was when it started out. And if you started with brittle paper, it's going to be very difficult to handle it without doing some sort of damage. So you really want to exercise caution and approach any of your repairs with a very light touch. If you're somebody who's heavy handed and really likes to get in there and scrub something clean. This is going to be very challenging for you because that sort of approach is going to be very damaging. You want to make sure that you're treating your cleaning materials as hazardous. So if you're using smoke sponges or any of the other materials we're going to be talking about. You want to make sure that you are disposing of them as if they were hazardous and putting them in sealed bags and disposing of them properly. They're not just something you're going to be tossing around on the floor or just putting on the table next to you because again that soot is really dangerous for your health and any exposure if you're not wearing the proper PPE can have a lasting impact on your health. You may not notice it today you may not notice it tomorrow, but down the line you don't want to find out that your lack of caution is causing you some serious health issues. And any surface that you are working on you want to make sure you are cleaning both before and after you start any daily operations for a lot of us this is going to be a multi day sort of project. And so we want to make sure our table tops are clean at the beginning of the day, and we want to thoroughly clean them at the end of the day and you don't want to be doing any other non salvage activities in the area where you are dry cleaning your materials. So, basically what that means is you're not going to be dry cleaning on top of a table that you're going to take all of the objects off of at lunchtime sit down at that table and eat your lunch, and then go back to cleaning your objects. One food residue isn't good for your objects but to it's really not healthy for you to be eating in an environment like that so you want to really separate your sort of activities into different zones, so that you're making sure that you don't have any sort of cross contamination, either between collection items or between your self and your clean food and your clean clothes and the dirty space that you are working. The number one thing to always remember in any sort of disaster situation is human health and safety is the most important thing. Anybody else tells you, you are the most important item in your collection, so take care of yourself first, then take care of your colleagues, and then you can take care of your collections. If you know any of you fly on a regular basis it's the same concept with the, you know, oxygen mask when it comes down, you put your mask on first before helping anybody else, because if you pass out from lack of oxygen you're going to be no help for anybody. So, take care of yourself first and then you can take care of everybody around you. So, how do we go about removing soot and ash from our dry materials. A good first step is to use a HEPA vacuum which is a high efficiency particulate air filtered vacuum. You can put a screen mesh on the nozzle head for your first pass because you want to make sure that if there is any loose debris that might be part of a collection you're not sucking it up into the vacuum. If you don't have a HEPA vacuum, you can do this, but just make sure you are doing it outside and that the wind is taking the exhaust from the vacuum away from you. And at the end of your time doing all of this cleaning work, that vacuum is now out of service. You will not be taking it back home with you to use on your carpets or anything like that. It has served its purpose and you don't want to bring those contaminants back with you because the soot is going to get into all parts of a standard vacuum. Unlike a HEPA vacuum which has so many layers of really high efficiency filtration that anything that enters is trapped and doesn't escape. So you want to be ideally using a HEPA vacuum. The also the good thing about most HEPA vacuums is they come with variable speed suction. So when you're working on paper objects like books or documents or photographs. It's best to use low suction again so that we're not sucking up the paper along with the soot that we're trying to get rid of. Just be aware you might not see a lot of difference when using the vacuum as your first step because again that soot is really sticky, but this is going to get anything that's loose as a first pass. As your second pass, you want to think about using a dry cleaning sponge. These are known as soot sponges, smoke sponges, chemical sponges. They come in all sorts of different names, but they're basically vulcanized rubber or latex sponges that you don't use wet. They're not like a, you know, a cellophane sponge, but what they are is they're sticky. You know, they don't have a substance on them that, you know, causes them to stick like an adhesive, but they're just a naturally sticky item that grips on to whatever is on the surface of your object and holds on to it so that it doesn't spread around. These smoke sponges if you order them come as a big brick, they are actually about the size of a brick. The beauty is is they can be cut with scissors down to a size that's more manageable for your hands. I can't use them as a whole brick size because my hands just aren't big enough. And when you use them, they're just going to attract all of, you know, the soot that's available on the surface, and you're going to use them until they're dirty and throw them away you're not going to keep using them when they're dirty, because you don't want to be spreading that soot. So, you know, once one surface gets dirty you want to switch to another surface, and when the entire pieces fill, you want to throw it away. Smoke sponges depending on how you store them do have a limited lifetime. When you get a smoke sponge and you take it out of its plastic wrapper, you want to store it in a Ziploc bag or wrapped up in saran wrap or something like that. If you leave them exposed to the air for too long, they start to dry out and they become more like sandpaper, at which point they're not effective for what you want to be using. So, great question. If you don't have the money or the means to get the smoke sponges, you can use latex free makeup sponges that you can just get at CVS or Walgreens, or wherever you get your makeup products. I don't wear makeup so CVS and Walgreens is about as good as I can get at the moment, but they actually work really well and they're small, which is really nice so you don't have to be cutting them up. But again, like the smoke sponges, they trap whatever it is you're trying to pick up and hold onto it, but again, get a lot of them because as soon as they're dirty, you want to be disposing of them. So, whether you are using a dry cleaning sponge or a latex free makeup sponge, you want to blot, not rub. And I apologize, I could not come up with a good image for blot don't rub. So we're all getting a Rorschach test today. So basically what that means is you want to work in, you want to think about working on your item by taking your sponge and moving up and down, not side to side. It's going to be essentially dabbing the surface of your document. And it works really well if, like when we were doing our assessment, if you imagine your object having a grid sitting on top of it. And you're just going to work systematically across and down and across and down so that you are covering the entire grid surface of your object. And then you're going to do it again. And you're going to do it again. And you're going to do it again until your sponges are not picking up anything new. And then, you know, that is going to tell you that this is as far as I can take this object. Because paper based materials have a lot of mountains and valleys. If you get in and look at them really closely. And the soot really gets into those valleys and won't let go so it really gets into the interstices of your paper. So it's very unlikely you are going to be able to get all of that soot out. So even if it still looks dirty, if you're blotting straight up and down and you're not getting anything, resist the urge to then go and try to give it a good rub to get the rest of it out because you're only going to do more damage that way. So blot until you can't get anything else up and then stop. If you can't get your item clean. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh yes if you can't get your item clean boxing is a really good option to prevent the soot from spreading to other items. So you can do something as simple as a wrapper. Like you can see here this is just a simple four flap wrapper. You can get a clamshell box you can buy, you know, all sorts of different gallery boxes from conservation suppliers, or, you know, if money is tight, you can wrap the item up in some tissue and put it in just a standard box. So you're just going to protect it from outside elements but it's also going to protect other things from the soot on the object that you have. I would avoid putting it, putting your objects and anything plastic at this stage. If you want the soot and the toxins in the soot to be able to volatilize. And if you put them in plastic, those volatile organic compounds that would be given off by the soot are going to be trapped in there and continue to do damage to your collection materials. So putting them in tissue and putting them into a paper box is better than putting them into anything plastic. So we do have some resources for you that we mentioned in the webinar. As I said, we will be giving you the slide deck for this webinar, as well as a handout, but AICC M which is the Australian Institute for the conservation of cultural materials that we mentioned early on is a great resource they also have other really good resources beyond their guidelines for small museums on their website. FEMA has some advice for after the fire, and it's their web fact sheet which is also extremely helpful heritage preservation has a great video that they did when they were in existence and is now on the AIC YouTube channel. Just peruse the AIC YouTube channel in general there's some really helpful information there on a lot of different topics. There's the International Center for the study and preservation of restoration and cultural property. Their first aid to cultural heritage in times of crisis is wonderful. I love it. You know, don't forget the National Heritage Responders are here to help as well. And we have our video from the health and safety section as well as the objects webinars that were just done. And don't forget that NHR is here to help as well with our National Heritage Responders hotline. You can either call us or we do have a website that you can go and send us an email. MauiRecovers.org is probably the best resource for you to use on a day to day basis, because that's going to be updated daily as to what is going on and what areas are being opened up for people to enter. Definitely check that on a daily basis. And if you do decide that you need help beyond what we talked about today. The American Institute for Conservation has a find a professional page, which is going to help you find a conservator for the type of material that you have. I might not say necessarily in Hawaii, but definitely within the West Coast of the US. And Luca Ackerman and Leanne and Victoria and I are also happy to answer any questions. Luca is our photograph person. So if you have any specific photograph questions, please feel free to ask him. If not today or tomorrow. Luca unfortunately has contracted COVID and we are being nice to him today. Leanne is actually in Hawaii at the University of Hawaii. And Victoria is in California and is part of the NEDCC program there. NEDCC is the Northeast Document Conservation Center. I am out here on the East Coast, but I am always happy to help. So do we have any questions? So Elena, do we have any questions that have come in that I have missed? Let's see. I do not think so. Not yet. A few comments. Oh, yeah, the, the tech Sarah webinars. We should probably add somewhere, because they are really excellent. Yeah. And Tisha mentioned that, you know, she's have had sponges that have lasted for four years. I've had them last. I've got some now that are probably six years old. And when you take them out of their original plastic, as long as that plastic hasn't been broken. They still work great. So if you keep them stored in plastic. Yeah, they, they last a good long time. Oh, and Olivia, thank you, Olivia. That's a great comment. When you are wearing your full PPE, and it is hot out, which to me, I think Hawaii is hot all of the time. It probably isn't, but for those of us who, you know, live through 20 below zero, it seems like it's hot all of the time. I do want to make sure that you are limiting your activity. So this, when you're doing salvage in a hot environment and you're kitted out fully and PPE, it is not a nine to five day. You're maybe working essentially maybe 45 minutes to an hour on, and then you're taking a break to hydrate and to get somewhere cool. And then eventually, you know, change your Tyvek suit depending on how dirty it is, give your body a chance to breathe, and then going back to work. And again, this is when you're doing salvage. It's again, always good to be working with a buddy so that you have somebody looking out for you, and making sure that everybody is taking the breaks that they need when they need them. Because this is a very strenuous time, even if you're not doing heavy physical labor, it's still stressful and strenuous. Danielle, we have another question about PPE. Okay. Someone asked if you put your boots in a contaminated clothing bag, what do you do next? What happens to that bag? You basically take them home, and you're going to immediately wash your clothing, and your boots are going to stay outside. And, you know, it's depending on your boots, you can't exactly send them through the laundry, but you're going to keep them outside of your home, and you're only going to wear them on the site. And then I would recommend contacting your local fire department to find out how they would recommend cleaning your boots after you're done with all of your cleaning. Because they're going to have techniques that you can use for things like your boots, but I don't know what those are off the top of my head. I definitely want to wash your clothes on a hot cycle. This is not the time for a cold wash. This is wash them on the hot cycle. And if you can run them through a second time. And then I would, if you have it, I would hang them out on the line to dry rather than put them through your dryer. But if they go through your dryer, you have to make sure to clean your lint trap and put that lint into a garbage bag that you can seal. I mean, it's a little extra work, but it really is important to make sure that you are isolating that so it as much as absolutely possible. I mentioned as well for boots, you can dip the souls in Tupperware to make sure that you aren't tracking materials into your vehicles as you leave a site. Yep. So does anyone else have any other questions the questions you've had that have been great so far. Were there any in Q&A Elena. Just the one about the boots. Oh, okay. But while we give people a few minutes to write in any last minute questions. Just a quick note that all of our recordings are going to be available on YouTube. The first two webinar recordings are already up. And this one will join later today. And for those of you attending here, there's going to be a handout with the slides and the learning portal. So wherever you registered for today's webinar. In that portal, there's a tab that that's called handouts and that's going to have materials from today and from the previous webinars as well. Just say thank you Olivia it was great to see you on the webinar. Yes, thank you to everybody who has attended. I'm happy to have provided these webinars and thank you to the team for providing this content and for compiling everything over the past few months. Yes, we can wrap up. Since we don't seem to have more questions. Oh, we do have one more question. Oh, can somebody provide a recommendation for cleaning salvage surfaces. What sort of surfaces. Can the attendee who wrote this question and clarify in either the Q&A box or the chat, what type of surfaces. Do you mean the, the table that you're salvaging materials on. Oh, treatment surfaces. Okay. A couple of different ways that you can approach that one. We're putting down something like just blank newsprint or some sort of covering for your table. You know, even if it's just craft paper like you get in all of your Amazon boxes, covering your table with some sort of protective surface. It depends that you can clean that up and dispose of it. And then just a simple Clorox solution would be enough to clean the table afterwards. It's going to also depend on what the surface your work surface is made from different surfaces have different porosity. And so if you're working with something, you know, if your tabletop is wood, you're definitely going to want some sort of barrier on top of that because the soot is going to just embed itself in the wood, just like it would in your paper. But the same goes for say granite. And so you really want to be aware of what your surface is that you're working on. So it's just as a rule of thumb, best to put down some sort of barrier, whether it's craft paper, whether it's polyethylene sheeting, the heavy weight polyethylene sheeting or something that that can be your first layer of defense, but you'll still want to clean the tabletop afterwards, just in case there were any nicks and scratches. Luca, Victoria, Leanne, any other additions. I would say even wiping down surfaces with alcohol, isopropyl alcohol. If you don't have those barrier materials also, there's always a good bet, different tables, etc. And also this, we've said this a million times, but just be sure to keep your PPE on while you do that and then bag it all up and seal it and throw it out. One thing I just wanted to add about PPE, if at all possible, it's great to use gloves that aren't black when handling soot, because it gives you an idea of how much soot is actually getting on your hands. So you're not transferring it to clean surfaces, treated objects, closed door handles, inside the cars, etc. So if possible avoid black latex gloves and get purple green or whatever else. I tend to gravitate towards the green, I always forget the black or there so. All right, I think we can go ahead and conclude for today. Thank you again, and we will see you next time.