 Again, let me welcome everybody. Welcome to the Future Trends Forum. I'm delighted to see you all here today We have a great guest on a vital topic, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation now American higher education is an incredibly diverse complex and rich tapestry We have roughly four thousand colleges and universities across the nation and they have all kinds of different identities And one of those identities is one that I don't think gets nearly enough attention and certainly not enough creditors Support that is historically black colleges and universities. They're about a hundred of these and they date back some of them before the Civil War They are private. They're public some of them are PhD grading institutions And some of our great national leaders that come from them to the most famous you could think of our Martin Luther King, Jr. And our current vice president, Kamala Harris. Now, there's a lot we can talk about these And I'm really curious to learn more about their present status, their past But also where they might be headed in the future and so to talk about this We have a wonderful historian a scholar coming to us named Professor Jolani Favors He's published a fantastic book on the subject an award-winning book In fact, if you look on the bottom left hand corner of the screen, you'll see a little kind of tan colored button That says right there you can click on that to grab a copy of the book from the publisher So before I just talk the stage off. Let me just welcome dr. Jolani Favors Hello, sir. Hey, how's it going Brian doing great, man? How are you? Oh, it's great to see you my friend. You it is. I'm absolutely delighted to be able to host you Where were you coming from today? Where have we found you? I'm coming from home. This is Atlanta, Georgia where I live I commute to my current institution of client anti-state university Which also happens to be my alma mater But I drive every Tuesday come back every Thursday. Atlanta has been home since 2014 Well, I have to ask because it's Atlanta because it's summertime. How hot is it? Uh, it's it's pretty hot You know, I think that we're witnessing the the crunch of of climate change like everybody else. So Yeah, it's been pretty hot. Hopefully the fall gets here very quickly Yeah, I hope so too. I hope so too. Well, I'm I'm so glad you can join us Thank you very much for sharing your time, especially as the fall semester is about to hit us all We have a tradition on the forum where we don't ask people to introduce themselves by talking about their past Instead, we asked you to talk about your future. What's coming up for the next year for you? What are the big projects that are that are really up top of mind for you? And what are the big ideas that you're thinking about for the next year? Absolutely. Um, well, I'm Again, I'm teaching at North Carolina Anti-State University where I am the Henry E. Frye Distinguished professor of history. Um, but I am also The director of the founding director of our center of excellence for social justice Which will be launching this fall So we're very very excited about the slate of programs and our research agenda We just welcomed four Freshman research fellow students to be a part of of the center Nice that program is called the power of four Which really sort of harkens back to our legacy of producing four freshmen on February 1st 1960 who radically transform The world through the sit-ins. Um, so we're leaning in on that history And welcoming yet again for freshmen that we're hoping through the affiliation with the center Through the work they're going to do. Um, they're going to chart a path in the course Just as progressive and just as inclusive and beautiful as those four freshmen did on February 1st 1960 I'm really excited about our future of the center. I'm future. I'm excited about their futures As students and continuing to build upon the legacy of anti Oh, my gosh, that sounds terrific when when the center goes live if you can please send me a note I would love to share that around without question. Yes Uh, that sounds great. And uh, are you is there another book in the works? Are you uh, are you working away another title? There is absolutely in fact, uh, like so many of my other colleagues across the country It's fellowship season. So I'm Very quickly applying for fellowship to try to support the launch of uh, this next book The next book is looking at I'm kind of shifting gears. I'm trained as a social movement historian So I've always been intrigued by social movements and marginalized people and how they Kind of summon the agency and the energy to resist. Um, so I'm looking at an 1898 lynching case In south carolina as the frazier baker Case which some of your viewers and listeners may be familiar with but in 1898 Frazier baker and his one-year-old daughter were lynched in lake city, south carolina And it triggered one of the very first federal trials Because he was lynched because he was a black postmaster And the white citizens of that community didn't think that that was a position that that he should hold But this kind of signaled a Beginning of the early civil rights movement Ida B. Wells is talking about the case. The boys is talking about the case. It kind of becomes a rallying cry that eventually leads into The rise of a number of other civil rights organizations, most notably the NAACP So I'm really interested in digging around that case and as I said before I'm applying for some fellowships right now to support the work on On that research Well, I would love to see that book that sounds like badly needed history And good luck. Good luck. Yeah, I appreciate that and I think is Once it's done. I think many readers will find that Sadly many of the historical parallels that we saw within the reconstruction era are still with us And that's one of the aims of the book is to get us not only looking back But to also as your question raised earlier look forward, right? Just the future hold and if we look back and learn from our history Then we can certainly chart a better course towards the future Oh, thank you Friends I'm going to ask Our guest a couple of questions just to get the ball rolling But as as we and by by we I mean professor favors Is speaking please think of the questions you would like to ask what you'd like to know about historically black colleges and universities And again, you know think about your own professional connections your own professional aspirations And some of the topics that we've been discussing on the forum for the past few years Um, I guess one question I have You are describing professor favors the power of four. It's My guess is that On I think historically black colleges and universities have a deeper and more extensive sense of their own history and some importance That almost any other sector of american higher education Am I right on this is is the institution to have that kind of vibrant sense of their own genealogy? Yeah, without question It's very much encoded into our dna is who we are as institutions not just north Carolina a nt But all 101 of the currently existing historically black colleges and universities and for your Your your listeners and for those who are viewing, you know, I never take it for granted that people know what an hbc You is. Um, so I just want to take a very quick second to talk about that legacy where they begin Of course, I discussed this in the book shelf in the time of storm how black colleges foster generations of leadership and activism But if you got into this time machine and went back into the antebellum era Of the 1830s, um, you would see an intensification of white supremacy. You would see the intensification of racism It was I mean in the same way we talked about the era of the common man the jacksonia This was fraught with um, uh very open Appeal to racist ideals and notions. Uh, and so in the midst of all of that In 1837 in philadelphia, uh, a new model a new education model is going to begin It's the institute for color youth Um, which is the very first chapter of my book That I talk about institute for color you could ultimately become cheney state university and from the beginning Um, the first hbcu as you mentioned sets the sort of different path a different paradigm on How education should be taught? That yes, we should embrace and teach the same sort of curriculum that Yale is teaching and harvard is teaching and all these other institutions are teaching What there is as I talk about my work A second curriculum on the thrice within these institutions that make them absolutely distinct And set apart um from From their pwy counterparts predominantly white institutions And that is a curriculum which is infused with the sense of race consciousness Of idealism and even a sense of cultural nationalism that black folks should and have Their own spaces that they should build their own spaces and that's in their own spaces in society in the country in the 1830s 1840s throughout the 19th century and into the 20th century wanted to deny wanted to deny black people Those spaces at every turn And so when we talk about this idea of a shelter in a time of storm, that's absolutely what hbcu is Their origin story is really rooted in that and the most hostile The most violent the most aggressive moments of american history African-american youth were sheltered within these spaces and received again not only in education About how to move forward and and rise up in industry But also in education about how they should very much use the intellectual talents to deconstruct white supremacy at every turn were there ever any hbcu's or hbcu like entities within larger institutions such as state universities Were there state hbcu's Was there ever a say an hbcu of historically black college? Inside of a state university You know, so Yeah, yeah. Oh, no and absolutely not. Um, you know this idea notion of Who deserves to grasp and pull the levels of open mobility has always been rooted in in whiteness I think of of yale. This fact the story came out about a year or two ago How yale in in connecticut literally The the board of trustees and in many of the the people who were invested in the history of yale Made sure that a black college that was going to be founded in the same city that it did not exist They do not want Of this institution neighboring them And so they very much Put the stops to that But you know throughout the country this idea notion of Of of who deserves access to education who deserves access to the ballot who deserves access to Property these are things which have always revolved around and centered around whiteness as a theory So the idea of creating institutions for higher learning for black people Has has always been a radical concept and and most Why particularly in the south where most hbc's are going to exist They only embrace that idea notion that hbc's could exist if they thought it would serve Their their ideas right serve them That youth were being taught to be subservient black youth were being taught to Um to to only Go into service industries where they would serve white america And this is why someone like book of tea washington becomes so extremely popular to his white benefactors because they believe That the same man who stood in peat mott park in atlanta In the late 19th century and told his white audience and hey We can be as one as a hand, but as separate as the fingers Of that this is the type of education that was going on in all these institutions Even though book of tea washington is talking about or it seems as though he's talking about upholding segregation and Again, there's a second curriculum that's going on within these institutions They make them so powerful in terms of the ability to resist The ability to dissect and the ability to deconstruct white supremacy and that's what generations of black youth Train within these spaces. That's absolutely the work that they're going to become engaged in Oh, no, that's fantastic. Um, well, I I hadn't heard that story about yale and new haven I'm not surprised, but that's that's galling Um, and then I guess I had one other question Which is to turn your turn your to the other end of your book and think about say the past 20 25 years What are some of the main features contours of historically black colleges and universities in the past couple of decades? In the past couple of decades, it's quite honestly been about survival How do these institutions keep their doors open? You know again, we look at um the economic Um ebb and flow um this but taking place And how many institutes of higher learning whether they're pwy's or hbc's it's been a struggle It's been a struggle to fund these programs. There's been a struggle to uh to keep the doors open at these institutions But as the old adage often goes when white america has a cold black america has pneumonia And so it's been doubly hard triply hard for black colleges during this era to maintain their growth To retain students who are being aggressively recruited by many pwi so to join their ranks Who knows how this issue with affirmative action how that's going to impact the hbc's now? moving forward But it's been an absolute challenge for many of these institutions simply to exist I think the covet the moment during covet Sustain them and kept many of them afloat because there was an infusion of federal dollars There's for higher education and a lot of that ran through Those institutions certainly we have to look at the black lives matter movement and how that too was a very important sort of uh sea change for black institutions many African-american students felt Even increasingly Um during that era and we say that era we have to expand that broadly to examine and look at the legacy of of the trump administration That era emboldened many people to embrace racial hostile rhetoric And people felt that on campuses on college campuses and many black students Attending pwy's many of them began to make the distinct choice to say You know what maybe I would be more comfortable Maybe I would feel more nurtured and embraced within a space that historically has always had their doors open For hbc students and so to I say all that to say that many hbcs have seen a sort of meteoric rise over the last three or four years Uh specifically my alma mater where I teach now north Carolina anti-state university. It's the largest hbc in the nation We've seen uh incredible growth in terms of our students our student body There's over 13,000 now where we're shooting for 20,000 with the next five to ten years Great our endowment is increasing still miniscule compared to many pwis and and certainly I mean the ivy league institutions are georgetown But um these institutions are still scrapping and trying to survive And every day is a challenge, but some of them are doing well like anti some of them are not Doing as well. So the future is quite precarious indeed in terms of If these institutions are going to remain around um I have so many questions and they just keep bubbling up and and I want to give I want to give the audience a chance to formulate some more of them Especially because you're doing such a great job of laying out all these different themes and issues Um, could you could you say a bit more about the current difference between private and public? historically black colleges and universities and what's what's the situation? I mean do Do the privates enjoy a degree of independence from state governments, which might be Treating them badly or being actively hostile to them or to the state institutions have Some state funding to to back them up that the privates don't have Yeah, it's it's definitely a double-edged sword. Um, this swings both ways and uh, you know Again, let me paint that picture for People within the audience who may not be familiar with the history of history. We used but in 1890 The federal government instituted instituted the second moral act Which created and paved the way for the founding of a land grant institutions And within the second moral act was a clause that said for every white land grant institution that's created We have to have a black land grant institution created And so we see we begin to see an explosion in the growth of state-supported institutions during that era I particularly land grant institutions like a florida and in the university or a north conan and api state university A prayer view a and m which is located around south of houston and so To answer your question. Yes for state institutions. Many of them are leaning upon those state resources That many private spcu's unfortunately do not have And so for many of our private institutions, they're the ones who are in the most precarious situation right now Many of them are struggling To keep their doors open right across the street from north conan and anti-state university is vinnett college Which I also write about in my book vinnett college is one of two institutions of higher learning Dedicated to teaching a single sex population. So spellman college, of course is the other one here in atlanta Very well known institution of higher learning Fort for black women And i'm vinnett college is the other one It's really sort of a tale of stories. Well spellman has continued to lead the way and their endowment is still among the highest vinnett college a private institution affiliated with the methodist church for much of their history still Affiliated with the methodist church. They have struggled to many of these church related institutions church supported schools smaller private spcu's Many of them are absolutely struggling right now And then to to lean into the other portion of your question that does provide some of them the type of cover to teach what they want to I'm not have to deal with radical aggressive politicians who want to shut down free thought on their campus I'm talking about you ron de sanfis But but no, yeah, that's the private versus public hbcu is also Something that I also explored in my work and I specifically want to highlight and talk about Private institutions and their growth During this moment, but whether they're private or public hbcu's have been a major force a major pillar within the struggle for black liberation Well, thank you. Thank you. Um, this is fantastic and I can see why your students most absolutely relish every class within This is fantastic. Let me let me step back from the podium and give some give some of our audience Opportunity for their questions. We have one right now. I'm just going to guess one part of it This is uh from Oops This is from charles finley in northeastern who asks you to discuss the current demographics gender identity International students and age. He didn't specify hbcu's, but I'm assuming that's the idea Uh, go ahead. Sure. No, it varies again. Every, you know, every hbcu is different, you know, again North Carolina anti-state university is a large hbcu country Closing, you know, 14,000 students. There's some hbcu's who have less than 500 I think one of the common denominators that you see within these institutions that you still have within hbcu's Most of the student population being african-american women And and that has presented a recruiting challenge for many Um institutions trying to not only recruit but retain african-american males You know, some of these institutions have catered to more non-traditional students You know trying to boost their enrollment numbers So again, it's important to understand that, you know, hbcu's are really Not much different from, you know, predominantly white institutions in terms of the diversity and the demographics of the students that they recruit and bring in With the exception being that clearly hbcu's have far more african-american students than their pwy counterparts, but in terms of the students who are enrolled there It's extremely diverse What's uh, what's the age bracket? I mean our hbcu's mostly traditional age undergraduates say 18 to 22 plus graduate students in their early 20s or do Yeah, that's the sort of similar trend and model across high education. Most hbcu's absolutely fit that model And and how what proportion of the student body is international students? Uh, that's a great question. I don't have those those that demographic in my pocket and I don't work in in uh admissions Um, I know that historically speaking Hbcu's have often been a haven for many african-americans throughout the diaspora So during the 20th century There were a number of african students coming to Study a place like Howard and Lincoln And institutions throughout the deep south And the same of course for the caribbean as well Caribbean coming to these institutions and that helped to expand the world view of many of these black students So while you have these independence movements emerging in the 1940s and 50s and 60s And throughout african continent, uh, many of them are bringing that same kind of political energy into the campus um, uprising students educating students on the the Mao Mao and kenya resistance movements and the caribbean and And at the same time you have a parallel movement for black liberation going on in georgia and south kanan and alabama All throughout the deep south all across the country. So, um, if the national students have always played a critical role in really sort of shaping the type of Culture and environment of these spaces, uh, but in terms of current demographics, how many international students do we have in antia? I simply I just don't know that answer concretely to I mean, I wonder maybe I'm getting ahead of myself But looking looking ahead of it, uh, given that uh, uh, the sahel and sub-saharan africa tend to actually have growing populations of teenagers I wonder if if that's a great opportunity for hpcu's to really, um, have international recruitment that way Yeah, without question. I mean, I think that there's still some some bonds there Uh, I'm happy to say that in november. I'll be I'm going to present in cake town Oh, wow Yeah, the very first african humanities association association meeting. So I'm excited to be a part of that along with acls the american councilor and society Myself and and dr. Melody price who as a professor of prayer of you who's going to be On fellowship this year princeton. She and I are going over there and continuing the conversation on why hpcu's matter but also How this is reflected within the current struggles of the african continent and how there should be indeed an ongoing relationship Um, and so hopefully the type of conversations resonate Hopefully we can continue to see an increase in the rise in students from across the diaspora Who want to enroll within these institutions who that have always been supportive of Of international students. Hopefully that will mean great things for the future of hpcu's I love the sound of that. Um, thank you and uh, charles. Thank you for the question By the way, if you're new to the forum, that's an example of one of those q&a questions And we have another one coming up right now for our good friend and a former guest, uh, steven airman Who is coming to us. I think from maryland And steven asks should hpcu's be working towards some sort of transformation in the next decade Or should or must the primary goal be maintaining them in the face of these challenges? Uh, you know, I think that transform a first of all transformation is always difficult whether you're pwi Whether you're hpcu People don't like change. Um, I think that one of the major challenges for for hpcu's is it relates to their survival It's first dealing with the historic fact And that fact is that hpcu's have always Been under supported always been deliberately undermined in terms of resources You you can take all of the hpcu's combined. There are 101 of them combined their endowments And it doesn't even come close to anything that harvard has one institution All right Let alone all of the pwis Hpcu's only make up three percent of the institutions of of higher learning in this country And so yes leadership within these institutions Have to embrace change. Many of them have talked about how do we Keep up the date and and do we do a stronger effort of recruiting? non-black students to these institutions To that is that many of them have said yes that we should be trying to bring in more Latinx students. We should be trying to bring in more White students to diversify The the issue is that many of those students because of the stigma of inferiority often comes along with hpcu's Many of them continue to look for what they think are our greener pastors at predominantly white institutions So I say all that to say that hpc's it's not hpc's aren't suffering because of a lack of being able to to shift and change they're really suffering in many ways because Just distinct and deliberate Efforts to undermine them financially whether that's coming from state institutions or the federal government And that's something that many of these leaders Have been discussing over the last couple of years. How do we rectify that? Of course, many of your readers may be familiar with the The Forbes article that came out probably about two or three years ago Which talked about how hpc used to be underfunded just since the 1980s alone Uh, and I'm sad to say my institution North Carolina anti-state university was at the head of this list Just since the 1980s alone the state of North Carolina has under Has underfunded uh north Carolina anti by almost three billion dollars Just since 1980s alone by three billion Dollars not three million by three billion. So we talk about how do we transform? You know, how do we shift to this these current climates? Yeah, and also must be a conversation about how um, do um state entities the federal government Ministers how do they finally recognize the impact of the institutes these institutions the the the role they played in Positively positively moving America forward and finally begin to invest in them in the ways that they deserve In some ways, it's it's a reparations question, right? It's about what's old Institutions, uh, and I think the Forbes article really laid that out very well I think I found it. I shared it in the chat of people in the chat can tell me if I if I got it Um, that's a that's a terrible underfunding. That's uh, that's just atrocious Um, I love the way you connect that to reparations Uh, we have questions just are just popping up all over the place. Uh, Jolani Let me just please grab one. Oh, and this this is one from a fisk university graduate. So I think it's very appropriate um, and uh, and verinata, uh asks as a fisk graduate I have a vested interest in the survival of hpc use and I've seen some increasing Enrollments across many hpc use. Do you think the affirmative action ruling will have a positive impact on that? Uh, you know, I've been asked this question a couple times now. Um The the quite the honest answer is is we're just really not sure. Um, you know For a number of years hpc use have positioned themselves um as a space where long before these these terms of Black girl magic and black boy joy ever came into being Black colleges have been those spaces that allow black youth to be free Um to to not have their humanity question to not have their dignity question On which every student deserves no matter whether they enroll in a pwy or whether they roll an hpc u and as I mentioned earlier I'm doing this particular political climate many students at pwis black students at pwis have begun transferring Um into hpc use because they felt this growing intensifying hostility On pwis and that's led to the to the to the somewhat increase of enrollment at hpc use um, but uh, there's also this concern moving forward that You know that the hpc use won't be able to first of all hpc use cannot teach every black student in america Right. I mean they only make up three percent of the institutions throughout higher education I think that I mentioned this a few weeks ago to Some students over at moorhouse the same kind of question popped up And I think that my biggest concern is not how hpc use will adjust to to uh To affirmative action, but how will you guys adjust to it? I'm in the worst towns of the world and the harbors of The unc chapel heels of the world. How will they adjust this environment where um, there's no longer this concern Or pressure to stimulate and promote programs of diversity to diversify their student body Um, let's be very clear and this is something what you can is not radical. It's not controversial It's just history right the idea notion of white supremacy was born within the academy Right races aside. I'm sure I'm not trying to insult intelligence of your your viewers and your listeners But I'm sure many of them know as academics that races are social constructs. We created it And we created within these spaces we we we uh supported it. We promoted it Many of the students embraced it and carried it forth into policies that shaped our society It was very rare for these institutions to call it out or to question it And so as I said before in 1837 you can just radically different a new model that emerges HBC use which have always really sort of served this sort of counter space In higher education. So my deepest concern about affirmative action coming to an end is that PWIs will revert back into these areas where They are mostly white spaces that serve white privileged males, which is again a large part of their origin story And so um, I think that we all should be concerned about that. We all should be fighting for for for diversity We all should be fighting for fairness. We should all be fighting for creating and producing students that are going to promote the beautiful Community the beloved community Dr. King first envisioned as a student at Morehouse Oh, that's a fantastic answer. Um, thank you. Uh, that's really really It's that's an awful lot and for nate, uh, a professor. I read it. Honbao at a king. Thank you for the great question And by the way, if you want to join us on stage, um, professor. Honbao, please just just click the rate hand button I'd be glad to beam you up um In the chat, uh, carolin says, uh, he's absolutely correct amazing, isn't it? And adds no our history. Let's repeat it Uh, we have more questions coming in. Um, and I want to make sure everyone gets a chance to ask And this is one from uh, sally moody ammo at body, sorry moody amu at portland state Uh, and sally asks about specific university What do you think of michael sorrell at paul quinn can his success be replicated? He spoke in a workshop. I attended and was riveting And again, this kind of ties back into this question. Thank you for your question It kind of ties back to that question about transformation, right? You know, is that we have to have, you know, visionary leadership the sorrell, um The young professor or a young president at virginia state Um, there are a lot of, you know, young educators administrators Who are doing a really really great job In in transforming the hpc landscape and trying to make these institutions more current and more accessible in terms of the curriculum that they're offering And in doing so entice and recruit more students And so and I think that's the type of visionary leadership the hpc is going to have to have Moving forward Those who can think out the box Those who can try to Increase enrollment those who can also boldly and courageously declare The hpcs need to be paid what they are owed And you know an alumni has to give back but hpcs aren't going to play the catch-up game Until we had this hard conversation about, you know, states like rough carolina defunding hpcs by close to three billion dollars Over the span of 30 40 years. That's that's a hard conversation in a hard history We have to confront but if we're going to talk about equity if we're going to talk about higher education We're going to talk about how we invest in these institutions. We have to confront that and so I think that administrators At these institutions places like paul quinn Virginia state Um, really great new president over at bennett college across the street. She's doing a great job Again, I think that it's going to take those type of visionary leaders. Um to really push hpcs forward into the into the future Oh, thank you. Thank you. Um, that's a really good salary. Always good to see you and thank you for a really good question And I guess this is something that we have to look for and we have to support such visionary leaders we have A question that goes back to The question of gender and this is from our good friend tom aims coming to us from houston The houston area and tom asks this may have already been asked But are each bcu seeing a similar gender bias towards women at other institutions? Is this a concern what is being done to address this and i'm pretty sure by bias, uh, tom Is referring just to the since circuit 2003 the majority of the student population has been women And that that proportion is increased and now roughly 59 of the american student body is It's female versus, um, you know closer to 40 male Do do you want to respond to that or build on that? You know So hbcu's historically I'm not sure if I would refer to this gender bias I think there's a test over. I think there's some other latent issues Particularly as it relates to african-american men About how and why it's such a difficulty to retain These to want to recruit them and also to retain them And and there's some other layers of society. We have to peel back And begin to have and much of that conversation begins and how african-american men Are are taught and embraced At the very beginning in kindergarten, right? And so there are a number of a great friends of scholars in education who are writing about the k through 12 experience of Black men are young black boys and how that translates or fails to translate It's a success for them at the higher education level hbcu's. We've always had predominantly um, women populations particularly since the post-World War II era armed sorry sister post-civil rights era and so So going to the 1960s 70s and 80s It was just always known they're going to be more women on campus Then there would be be men But yeah, and I think that Except for their number of social economic issues that never really kind of go into that But I think it also raises the question about How do we transform that out of we change that it's certainly hbcu's and I think that all institutions higher learning They should play a critical role in trying to reverse those numbers And to to get and retain more african-american males and males in general within on college campuses But hbcu's we're doing what we can we have great mentoring programs and no kind of ant For the men that enroll on our campus I know at morehouse college, which is The only single sex Institutions dedicated to teaching african-american men in the country They've been leading the way. They have a new black male research institute that they're launching That's trying to raise these some of these questions and answer some of these questions about specific concerns and problems The african-american men and boys are often a plague with To try to a path towards a more inclusive future Where we can see these numbers begin to go up on college campuses Well, tom as usual you have a gift for a really revelatory question and and thank you gill. I don't think that's that's uh It sounds like hbcu's who are definitely ahead of the curve then if uh, if the preponderance of the population was female starting back in 1960s It's it's it's been a long time so, uh, you know for for for many cisgender males like myself that was actually attractive Uh, uh, uh tool for college. Hey, I'm going to go to college because absolutely As a cisgender male myself I completely understand that You thought you maybe you could you know, let's you and date one of them at least, you know So but no that that's uh It's it's always been an issue. It's always been a definitive part of the the the college landscape of having more women than than men and You know, I think the same applies to a number of different institutions. You look at the People within the black community. Look at the black church. There are always more women than men in the black church They're always women in these institutions of higher learning. So, uh, you know This issue of how do we retain and Address and deal with some of the trauma that black men are confronted with That's something which is a pressing issue that hbcu's have to to leave Thank you guys are going to be leading on this We have two questions from people who had ducked out and I want to make sure that their questions got to play out Our good friend don shawless Asks, please ask dr. Favors about his opinion of hbcu's and their business with online program managers opm sorry opm's like to you and noodle and other tech companies Like guild advertising lead generation companies My concern is that hbcu's have been systematically exploited by many of these companies They're exploited in one way is what I would ask if he was around to answer that question I can I can make sure the question a little bit. I think you would I think you would say that either that they They charge too much or offered a bad deal for black students and for black institutions No, and I mean, I think that's the case whether we're talking tech companies or whether we're talking Foundations who who invest or do not invest in hbcu's It brings about a question about equity in terms of how do we achieve equity and how we treat these institutions? I've been over the last two or three years We're doing consulting work with the macArthur foundation Oh, great And one of the things that we've been working on is addressing This major chasm that exists in terms of how hbcu's are funded. Why is it that? Scholars at these institutions are not funded in the same way on par with their pwy counterparts So one addressing that and then trying to close that This is a broader issue of exploitation and how hbcu's are treated. So whether it's tech companies or whether it's People who come and do business Hbc's want and deserve the same type of investments That that their pwy counterparts receive And so unfortunately, I just don't really know a lot about some of those tech companies that he mentioned Or their relationship to hbcu's Are or are the exploitative nature of those relationships, but you know, I can't speak broadly enough to say that They're not alone There are a number of people who fail to give hbcu's what are old and don't extend the same type of resources To these institutions and these are some of the hard conversations that we have to have and then we have to try to Have the courage to to move forward and rectify that as I said before over the last two years I've been fortunate enough to be working with the macArthur foundation and trying to Raise some of these questions and hopefully charter our course forward that is far different from what we've experienced Excellent. That's even more good work. Um, you sound like a one-person army doing all this Hey, you know, we do what we have to do man and and move forward and try to elevate our research and our scholarship But also do the work that is called upon us to serve our institutions and to serve the broader community Well said, uh, we have a video question uh coming from uh, mark gaskins at the n rock project the hpcu Initiative director and let me see if we can get him Hello, uh mark, uh your camera seems to be off All right, now it's on perfectly. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear and see you awesome Actually, it was an accident and I was I was hitting the hand, but I was trying to I was like, why is it? No, I'm trying to hit the question So anyway, I'll come on and ask the the work that I've been doing Uh with the n rock project is just partnering with schools. I run an initiative Uh, really to support them and finding out. Well, how are students doing in their math? As well as in their english and instead of doing like a high stakes exam placement It actually says, okay, here's where you're standing your math Here's some of the gaps and now the resources are built into the software to help them to bridge those gaps The challenge that I do come across often is the matter of budget And and so I'm just wondering One, are there any collective bargaining agreement any kind of things that that pull hpcu's together that I should be talking to Are there any funding organizations that would be interested in this work that hpcu's connected like how can we Support hpcu's I mean the software isn't free But it's inexpensive and they still can't pay for it. Whereas I see a lot of pwis They're benefiting from these solutions left and right. Yeah. No, thank you for your question mark and again We have to have the hard conversations about Why um the these budget gaps exist why these uh deficiencies exist within these institutions hpcu's are not um Stretching pennies because they want to they're stretching pennies because hpcu's are literally a reflection A walking reflection of the legacy of segregation in america Uh, and until we recognize that uh, and then rectify that then you know, we won't be able to to make transformations I spoke down at it. I'll just I won't call them up by name. I spoke down at an institution in louisiana Uh hpcu of higher learning in louisiana Probably about a year and a year and a half. Actually, you know last last fall so a year ago um And they had to make the hard decision on on whether they were going to uh Maintain a actual working physical library They were going to move to a more digitized version And so imagine walking into georgetown to the library and there are no books Right that you would never see that Imagine walking into harvard or the portland state or whatever institution that you represent You're going to the library and there are no books, but here's the hpcu who has been historically underfunded since it was opened Uh in the early 1900s uh Literally having to make the hard choices of do we have a working functioning library in the 21st century? Or do we take these resources and then we put them somewhere else? And they have to make the decision to take resources and put them somewhere else and where does that leave them? all right, and so um, whether it's purchasing software whether it's opening up new programs whether it's um funding and opening uh lines for new professors HBCUs have a litany of challenges challenges again I represent the largest hbcu in the nation And we still have and we're doing fairly well As an institution of our learning, but we still have major challenges which are very much defined By by our legacy tied to segregation again We will be doing much much better if the state of North Carolina decide to pay us a three billion dollars that they owe us And then we could afford that software and that's the same conversation for every hbcu Uh, and so until we again recognize that hard history until we confront the fact of what we've done to these institutions to put them in this position of of deficiencies and the inability to Continue to prosper Or to prosper as their pwy counterparts. We're going to see some of these same sad stories as I said before before covid There were at least four or five of these institutions that were literally on the verge of closing their doors And so you know fast forward five just four or five years You know the idea of saying hey, can we get you guys to buy software? Many of them are still trying to figure out. Hey, we got a you know We don't have we have an open position for a dean. All right, we've got we've got an awesome way to teach math We've got a we haven't hired somebody to teach history in in three or four years And so these are some of the hard decisions Um, the colleges are having to make uh, and it's very much framed by The legacy of racism in this country This impacted their ability to thrive and prosper In the in the 21st century. So I hope that whatever institution you're working with Ultimately gets that that money to to purchase that needed software. Um, but it's going to take people saying hey Let's fund these institutions the way Absolutely, I appreciate you for taking the time to answer the question. We do have several that are standing on But I'm I'm not seeing the momentum. So this is encouraging and I'll reach out to you on link there man So we can chat a little bit more. I appreciate I'm not on link there, but you can email me anytime You gotta get on link Instagram I'm only on Instagram. I try not try to avoid overly toxic spaces. I'm so I'm not on twitter But no, hopefully small plug for linkedin. We would love to Yeah, you're just coming on and talking if there is a business community There is a lot of folks there are a lot of folks on there And potential funders that when they hear this message they would resonate Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate that and that's one of the things that to kind of build on mark's question That's one of the things that we've again been attempting to do with our center of excellence for social justice So before I've been working and building relationships with the macArthur foundation with the luke student nation Dispenser foundation Um and and banging the drum and let them know that hey, we've got some great programs. We're doing great work We were producing great scholarship. We deserve the same type of investments. Um, and so thankfully, um, they're listening And and hopefully that you know brings about some changes and in our abilities to function and move in the same way in which UNC chapel Hill moves and North Carolina state moves and all these other institutions who have Far larger resources and far larger endowments than we do We want to be able to move in the same way, but that's only going to take people saying hey That there's a issue here historical problem. We've got to verify that and invest in these institutions the way they deserve Uh director gaskins. Thank you so much for the great question. Thanks for joining us on the stage Um, also bravo to the great beard. Um, one One thing here's a mind. Which way you talking? Here's a my friend. You're both great. You're both great Now you've got me be you've got me be mark If you can throw a link in the chat to uh to your work at n rock, that would be great Uh friends, we're coming up in the end of the hour and uh, uh, we have a couple more questions coming in I want to make sure everyone gets a chance to ask them and jalani. I admire just how definitely you're answering all these questions Uh, we have another one. It's kind of technical This is for our dear friend lisa stevens. Uh, and she asks, um, let me get this right She's curious about built environments and uh in hpc years and she's specifically thinking about spaces classroom spaces Furniture and design But i'm guessing that i'm anticipating your answer, which is going to be if we're still trying to hire a dean We're not going to spend a lot of money or time on trying to think about innovative furniture Am I right on that? Was uh, did you complete the question? Yeah, yeah, I mean sorry lisa lisa had to duck out But she's talking about the built in the built environment in general. So that would be a classroom design Library design that kind of thing. No, I mean, hey, I think that's a relevant question It's one of the things that you know, I think that uh, we have to explore in fact We just I talk about in the garter foundation We just had a cohort of scholars come down to atlanta and we were working out of The auc the lanny university center, which yeah rise of morehouse college bellman college at clarkland university They all And we were doing a tour of their library and I was saying that man, this is an incredible space Clearly it deserves more investment, but it's radically different from our library Um, you know, and so one of the things that I and I want to say are I mean enough client ant Which was radically different from a number of others So so I mean one of the things that I talk about in my work in my book and I conclude with this engineer In the epilogue very simply is that space matters Right the type of spaces that we construct the type of spaces that we build It matters now in the context of the book I'm referring to The type of political space the type of energy that we're inserting into that space which allow us To dream and to be free and to to think more critically and to uh to welcome and engage their peers Um, you know, but it also talked we should also talk about physical space In that regard these spaces absolutely matter and so building more functional spaces Where students can feel the ability to be free and thrive and it encourages them to to to uh to interact with their peers I think that's very important. And so we just built a new multi-million dollar New engineering complex on campus and that's some of the questions that were being raised about When they were constructing it is How can we construct and build spaces which will lend itself? um to you know kind of strong sway kind of way Increasing our students energy and their dedication um to learning. But again, this is I hate to continue to be that jump. It's a resource question and every htc was not the same and And every htc unfortunately doesn't have the read. There's some institutions which have not built a new building on campus in the last 20 30 years So in terms of how do they transform their space? You know, it's about Infusing these institutions with the resources that are necessary to build new spaces access to capital Lisa, that's a great question But in in the chat I flung it a link to her wonderful project flex space And a few years ago. She was a great guest in the forum talking about that But looking looking ahead Even further we have a question from our great friend to the absolutely amazing ruben pintadora Who asks about one college and one future? Xavier university of louisiana announced last year. It's planning a new medical school Do you see other possible opportunities for creating new htc years? For new htc us I think that would be a challenge in terms of new programs Absolutely, uh, you know new programs Definitely are deserved at these institutions I think it would be great if North Carolina a nt the largest hbc in the nation and the largest hbcu in the state of North Carolina If we had a man's school, uh, but again, yeah resources You know as I said before if the state of North Carolina decides they want to do what's right and rectify past wrongs and give us Give us three billion dollars and we can do that now Xavier university has a very distinct history in the sense that I believe they produce more black doctors Um than than anyone um in in the nation and so uh, and I'm gonna run through these numbers very quickly Um, so your your your audience will understand this because it's about the capacity of what hbc us have done in spite of Right black colleges produce 40 percent of all black dentists In spite of the fact that only two of these institutions what dentals 40 percent 40 percent of all black dentists Hbc only university and maheri college in tennessee have dental schools. They produce 50 percent of all black engineers All right, they produce 75 percent of all black phd's Who doctors 75 percent of all black veterinarians 85 black doctors? That's a lot. I'm gonna stick your teeth in to right now This legacy and they only make up three percent of of all institutions of higher learning in america Um, we think about this legacy of disparity think about how much more they could do If they actually invested into these institutions Um, and so, you know, I think that creating new programs I'm creating new colleges is something that every college president in america Whether you're the president of the hbcu or president of a of a pwi That's something that you have on your radar that you would love to do to increase opportunities for your students to present opportunities to infuse the work of the college into the community by producing new Graduates and leaders of various industries Black colleges are no different and so hats off to zavier Um, I hope that they fund that and I think zavier. I know zavier is a private institution I'm hoping that they Pull off the funds and the investments to to make that hospital or to make that College of medicine a first class But again zavier has been leading the way for years in spite of their deficiencies have been leading the way for years In producing black doctors and black nurses And that's the case for for most agencies. It's always been a case of of doing more with less Uh, and that's been kind of the legacy in the hallmark of of black colleges I think it's important for us to to raise the question. Why does that have to be so Is that these are institutions that deserve investment deserve our support? Um, they have to use a sporting analogy they have punched far above their weight Uh for years, um, but at the same time they have made america a better space when you look at the litany of Needles that have emerged from these colleges from dr. King Ella Baker Mary mcclapathoon Du Bois You know, it's it's a who's who a virtual who's who of black america Yeah, and and xpc use have been absolute treasure. So hopefully they continue to deserve that Deserve our investment in the years to come Professor favor you have done a heroic work in documenting that history and you have done Superb superb job as a guest here for the past hour Thank you so much for these fantastic answers. I admire the breadth of your learning on this and and your passion for the sector What what's the best way for us to keep up with you? Over the next year to learn about your your new institute and to learn about your hopefully coming up a new book Is it best to follow your instagram or should we shoot you emails or what? Yeah, i'm gonna follow marx advice. I guess and get on linked in Real soon. So hopefully you can catch me there. Um, also on instagram My website is www.doctorjelani favors dot com Where I keep posting my upcoming speaking events I'll be speaking at howler university On uh, monday. It's coming monday. Oh, yeah hbcu research center I'll be speaking in florida a&m In two weeks for their freshman transition ceremony I've been very fortunate for the last four years Florida a&m university has adopted shelter in the time of storm As they're coming to read for their freshman class So four years every four every student freshman student has come to florida a&m has been reading that book And so i'm really great grateful for that But i'm also looking forward to finally getting a chance to address their freshman class In about two or three weeks when they begin. So I post all that stuff on my website So you can see to to take a look there And then of course i'm on instagram where I post everything from scholarly events to to my barbecue that I cook so That sounds terrific water sense of some of the things that I engage in. I love it. You're so generous Thank you so much. I hate to wrap things up, but we have we have to go. Please take care Stay cool as you can And and good luck. We'll look forward to hearing about everything that's coming up with you. It's been a pleasure Thank you all for having me and support hbc us wherever you can Thanks so much ryan take care my pleasure But don't go away your friends. We have to wrap up by pointing out what's happening Next in the forum If you wanted to keep talking about this about the many many issues around and trends about hbc years Just please head us up on twitter or mastodon using those links and using the hashtag ftte If you'd like to look into our previous sessions On everything including historically black institutions as well as race and racism and the other topics we've discussed Just head to our archive at tinyurl.com slash ftf archive You can also if you'd like Take a look at our upcoming sessions Which include sessions on ai at higher education as well as organizing academic labor So just go to forum that future of education at us to learn more If you're interested in dealing more into ai take a look at my sub stack Just go to ai at academia.substack.com And above all, thank you all for the great questions and the great discussions today As always, it's wonderful to think together with all of you for these thursday afternoon hours I really appreciate your generosity of your time your thought your experience your creativity Please take care as the fall semester draws close I hope you're all well and we'll see you next time online Bye-bye