 Welcome back to the breakfast in Plastivia Africa and let's look at the Impeachment of the Zamfara State Deputy Governor Mandy Goussaou, who was impeached yesterday. We do have a guest joining the conversation this morning for the want of time a Bonoom Adebu Rua, who is a guest this morning on the show He's a legal practitioner. It's good to have you join us. All things being equal would also have retired Colonel Bala Mandy also of the People's Democratic Party and The party chairman of Zamfara State joining the conversation But it's good to have you join us this morning Thank you. Good morning. All right. How would you describe the process? I mean, this has been described as a lot of Illegality in the democratic system. Some people say this is totally unconstitutional The impeachment of the deputy governor of Zamfara State, but in your words, how would you describe this? I believe that the drama currently playing Out in the chambers of the part of assembly of Zamfara state Amounts to a desecration of Our value system our democratic ethos And what we have held sacrosanct In the implementation of democracy in our country, which is respect for the rule of law Respect for the judiciary And of course adherence to due process If you recall the events leading to these is that the current governor Was in the people's democratic party and he lost the election woefully to the all progressive congress But in the course of time because of internal anglings There was a court case that went up to the supreme court which sucked the entire Leadership of the all progressive congress and there was a vacuum and that was our pdp to cover Zamfara state So this government ordinarily is a product of judicial proclamation And so it becomes totally Surprising that the same government is desecrating The ladder through which he climbed onto power There is a case pending the federal high court Before horrible justice in and echo filed by the deputy governor against his impeachment And the house of assembly has been served The chief judge of the state has been served What is required is for parties to await The final determination of that case as a mark of respect For the authority of the court So for the house of assembly to proceed With setting up a panel With allegations to the chief judge With reports of the panel and then pronouncing The impeachment of the deputy governor and swearing another person why the case is pending Says a lot about how our leaders respect the process And that's why I think it's important for all of us to Make a case for Zamfara state to abide By the rule of law and due process I believe at the appropriate time the judge Before whom that case is pending should be able to give sanctions Against what is currently played out in Zamfara state by reversing All that has been done why the case was pending in court And I think that is what is expected By most Nigerians in respect of what is going on in Zamfara state Okay, in trust they below are they below us here and you said that I noticed you didn't use the word state of execution You said out of respect for the court that that may imply That they the Zamfara state house of assembly And then of course the panel and the government of the state did not Flout any law in embarking on this action. Is that what you mean? But that maybe they should have just out of out of respect morally or morality Done that but I'm sure you're saying they didn't break any laws. Is that what you mean? No, not at all. They have broken the law What law have they broken sir? Yes, that's what I want to explain. We have now accepted In our system in Nigeria Starting from the decision of the supreme court in the case of governor of legal state A grace of juku That once parties have submitted their dispute before the court Even when no other has been made specifically The case ties the hands of the parties From taking any steps that may overreach Whatever decision that may be taken by the court in respect of the case itself So it is Against our law for zamfara state house of assembly For the chief judge of zamfara state Who are parties to a case pending Before the federal high courts in abuja to proceed To conclude the process of impeachment When the person who filed the case is challenging that same process So it is tamping on the authority of the court It is breaking the hallowed integrity of our judicial process For zamfara state government and all its agencies to pretend As if the case does not exist Because what it means now is that a faith accomplice has been forced on the court That whatever decision it may reach eventually Will probably become a nullity in the sense that The person has been impeached and another person has been sworn in And if we continue like that We are entrenching a reign of impunity In our country, which is contrary to democracy. So they have broken the law. All right But is there no law because you were talking about precedent now So and of course a ruling in the case you cited But is there no law specifically giving the process and the processes for A judge to order parties to stay action in his for action And if that is there, is that not the law that that should be looked at in this case? The authority of the court Is not restricted by any law Section cease of the constitution Creates judicial powers And gives every judge every court Created by the constitution including the federal high court where this case is spending inherent powers To stay actions inherent powers to be able to decide dispute between presidents and government and between governments and governments So the law that has been broken by Zamfara state House of assembly and the chief judge in this case is section cease of the constitution and The relevant precedents by which all lawyers and judges have accepted To honor and obey the authority of the court once a case Is already pending in any court in respect of any disputes The reason i'm asking is because It you know in the jury in jurisprudence lawyers have been known in several cases several cases in this country to apply To make an application for for a stay And then upon that application George may grant a stay and i've seen cases where if that application was not made The parties were free to do what they wanted to do and it's been accepted as well in recent cases as well So that can also be relied on wouldn't you say? well For me It was possible for the judge of the federal high court to have made a direct order restraining the house of assembly From proceeding with the impeachment process That impeachment process could not be completed without the chief judge of that state setting up a panel to investigate the allegations against the deputy governor And that's the point that i'm making that For the chief judge of the state who is aware that the case is pending In court at the federal high court. He does not require any specific order For the chief judge to honor his fellow judge by ensuring that he does not take any step That may overreach The case pending a call but i agree with you that it was up to the court in abuja to have made an express order Staying proceedings of the house of assembly or even restraining The house of assembly from proceeding With the impeachment process, but i don't think that order was made in this particular case All right, let's also bring in retired conel bala mandi. He's of the people's democratic party As a matter of fact, he's also the party chairman of zamford estate. Good morning retired conel bala mandi Good morning All right, so quickly a lot of people have said that the deputy governor was impeached on the grounds that he refused, you know to Join the all-progressive congress. Can you quickly bring us to speed with what actually led to this incident of his impeachment? actually This impeachment move started After the governor has moved to apc If the governor had remained in tgp, they would have been in impeachment staga at all But when he moved the deputy governor myself and others decided to remain in tdp and The house of assembly Initially made a move to influence the governor and the deputy governor And the deputy governor went to the court and the court injunction for all parties to maintain ethical and to bellow until the hearing and determination of the case before the court That was last year until July And this case has been formed just about two weeks we were in the court and our lawyer Emmanuel Ocala requested the high court judge to make a definite pronouncement or rather to direct to direct to give an undertaking that there will be no further proceeding on the impeachment issue until the court has becoming the case before it When my court may decline that the judge of the high court said the case is before the court and he does not expect any party to do anything that will send amount to contempt of court that this case has not been determined so it's not expecting anybody to revisit the case until the court determines it That was the position that did just about two weeks ago But for us now to hear the chief judge of the state has set up a several month panel when the chief judge is actually a party to the case as a layman I thought that should not be the case but the chief judge went ahead knowing the chief judge was a party to the case and set up a several month committee I think that is this regards to the orders of the high court I'm sorry to just to go back on this color baller Monday it seems that is this are you referring to the federal high court restraining order from last year July 2021 Yes Okay, because we aware that a fresh process was a new impeachment notice was served about two weeks ago and on the 15th of February an attempt was made by the lawyers on behalf of Mr. Gosso and the PDP to make to ensure that this restraining order was issued on this new impeachment notice and we know that justice in Angkor, Milord de Romba justice in Angkor turned down the request of the lawyers from Mr. Gosso and his party to restrain the house of the House of Assembly and achieve justice from going ahead so I mean are you not maybe confused about the two? No, there is no confusion it was about the originating someone that was admitted and my argument objected to this that the the notice was just after him immediate time to study and the judge gave him the time in the preceptor so what the judge advised was that he did not expect any right conceivable counsel to go ahead and do anything on a case that is reported But yeah but in I mean in the light of are you so are you saying that what happened earlier in February in the last time they were in court was it that the judge refused to restrain the parties from embarking on on impeachment proceedings having set March 10 as a date for hearing or that he agreed because what the information I have was that he refused to restrain the parties from going ahead with any action What what what what the judge said was that the case was before him and he would not expect any party through the case to go ahead and construct themselves in any way that means chance amount to going um contrary to the court um advice It was cautionary Did he reissue restraining order uh Connell No he didn't issue restraining order specifically Okay I just want to be sure about that that you caution all the parties against me anything on that matter before him Okay all right I just so it was an advice of sort All right Connell let's Okay at this point let's also bring in Ebonu Luwadegwarua who's still with us this morning Now another issue is the fact that you know the governor saw in the new deputy governor and the big question is here Do the governor have the powers to sway in the deputy governor? From the provisions of the constitution of the federal republic of Nigeria the responsibility to swearing the president vice president governor and the deputy governor is vested in the chief judge of the state where it is the governor or deputy or the chief justice of Nigeria where it is the president or the vice president no other person is permitted in law to sway in these persons apart from the judge that is listed Now my concern with this case actually is the need for us to appeal to our leaders politicians across board to a still tolerance and democratic values because we can continue to claim to be practicing democracy where we cannot show any tolerance for democratic norms you will recall ma that this same scenario played out in those cases when the deputy governor Mr. Abola declared for the zenith labor party while he was still holding office as the deputy governor and everybody in Nigeria put pressure on the governor to allow the deputy governor be and he remained in office while he had declared for another political party and he went ahead and contested for the governor's election while he was still the deputy governor and the chief judge of the state refused to be intimidated into setting up any ramshaku panel to remove the deputy governor from those states just because he defected to another political party that is how democracy should be we cannot continue to run our fears as if we do not have respect for due process and law this is Zambara state a state that is populated and taken over by bandits it is impeachment that is the priority of leaders instead of restoring peace instead of ensuring that there's progress instead of working towards economic development it is mundane mantas of impeachment that has occupied the pride of governance in a state that is struggling to survive I think that Nigerians should put pressure on our leaders to be able to ensure that whatever it is that they gave us as oath of office they should pursue it and respect our constitution the high cost should not have any problem when this case comes up on march 10 to set aside what has been done in Zambara state it's totally totally totally totally unacceptable one of this you say that all that has happened in Zambara state is on democratic and constitutional yes I do say that that for the national assembly of a state and the chief judge of a state to proceed to impeach the deputy governor why the case is still pending before the federal high court is totally unconstitutional and the consequence of that action is for the judge to reverse what has been done okay why the case is still pending Adebora I say and you've said that you've had the the general from the PDP he's in Zambara state and we have the information here that the judge did an issue a restraining order the first order was issued based on the first notice but for this fresh notice he declined to issue any order restraining parties from and back on any further action and you've said that you know they haven't broken any law basically by by acting without a restraining order issued or a word by the court the judge and so how is this unconstitutional I mean you look at you look at the the the constitution and the sections of the constitution that that talk about the processes for impeachment you had more than enough members of the Zambara state House of Assembly which has 24 members and they're required to have at least 18 of them voting in favor of the impeachment and they had 20 members voting so where in lies the unconsistionality where in lies the illegality all of this thank you very much you heard and I believe it is correct when the PDP chairman said that the judge gave an advice he gave a recommendation on that section 318 of our constitution the decisions of a court includes advice recommendations even when the judge does not say anything the fact that the matter is pending is enough to tie the hands of the House of Assembly of Zambara state and that of the chief judge of that state the law that has been broken in this particular case order there was a section 6 he refused to issue an order a move was made by the lawyers to go Mr. Gusso and the PDP to get the judge to issue an order restrain the parties from where he refused he declined no he said that last year July which you confirm that the judge made an order for parties to maintain the status quo is he material that after that they proceeded to issue a fresh notice the substance of the case before the court is impeachment and the process of that impeachment includes the notice that may have been issued even after the case was filed so it is immaterial that no specific order was made once the judges maintained the status quo antebellum parties were expected to restrain themselves from order hostilities including issuing fresh notices all right well we have to let you go gentlemen we do appreciate your time this morning with us for the want of time we will definitely continue this conversation and follow of the development of things in Zambara state once again retired Colonel Bala Mandi of the People's Democratic Party and the state chairman of Zambara state we appreciate your time this morning on the breakfast thank you very much and also thanks to Ibu Oluwade Ibuora SC and the legal practitioner for your time as well thank you well that's the size of the conversation very boring issues of course a democracy seems to be or might just be the verge of being I mean threatened or probably kicked out but of course there's been several calls that we need to preserve you know our democracy we follow up the things like we rightly mentioned but if you missed out on any part of the conversation it's all right to follow us on Twitter Facebook and Instagram or Floss TV Africa and do subscribe to our YouTube channel at Floss TV Africa Lifestyle I am Massive O'Folkman thanks for staying with us and I'm Kofi Bartels we'll return tomorrow enjoy the rest of your day