 If reality check radio enriches your day and life, support us to keep bringing you the content, voices, perspectives and dose of reality you won't get anywhere else. Visit www.realitycheck.radio forward slash donate. Winston Peters has been dominating the news since his State of the Nation speech. The media have misrepresented it, Chris Hipkins attacked and got sat back on his derriere, and Winston is laughing all the way to the parliament. Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters, welcome back to the crunch. The last time we spoke officially was election eve, where you gave me an interview just after the results had come in. Yes, I did. Actually, the first interview I did was anyone. That's right. And it unhinged David Fisher at the Herald something wicked as well. Well, you know, why doesn't he wise up? The idea that they know everything when the circumstances are not in their control, it quite allows me. But he's usually a good write-up, David, but sometimes he lets himself down, I think. Yeah, I have a different point of view on that, but that's more of a personal issue that I have. But he has been a good journalist in the past, but unfortunately he lets himself down rather too frequently these days. But don't the media let themselves down all the time? And a case in point is the little contra-tomps that's going on now between the media and yourself. Was the reporting of your State of the Nation speech? Well, here's the thing. What happened here was they didn't take what I said. They took what they thought I said and then went bonkers with it. And then in a question to me, in person, not part of the speech, I confirmed another aspect. But they still read it to the speech and on they went. And words like genocide and holocaust was never in my speech at all. No. And all those people that use those words, dare I say it, Nazis, holocaust, genocide, they all got counters. They've got a whole file of them now from YGT to Gullriss and sad to say, all sorts of people. Packer, making all those comments, genocide, not one journalist went to them. But when they thought they had a chance to guess like me, they had to go. But I'm watching the social media. The social media is awful for them. Well, that's the thing I saw this morning, a comment from the new co-leader of the Greens, Chloe Swarbrook, who said that it was, you know, crazy behavior. And I was thinking, hang on a second. Weren't you the one who had a tea towel draped around your shoulder shouting from the river to the sea with great vehemence, you know, promoting a chant that actually does celebrate or indeed invoke genocide? Well, after the 7th of October last year, in that appalling terrorist attack on Israel, did she say a word? No. No, not a murder, not a murder. That's why you cannot trust people who've just unbalanced when it comes to things like that there. But my point to the mainstream media is you're not going to get away with trying to gaslight me. You're not going to go to Luxon and say to him, Winston said this when he hasn't even heard me say it. I'm going to impute various things about that and then expect him to react. The reality of it all is I made it very clear in my conversation with the Luxon that I've been saying this for 40 years. I believe in one standard of citizenship with equal rights in this country called New Zealand. And I always have, and I'm always going to defend it, because without that, the moment you get, as Whiteley said, claiming that Māori had a superior DNA, the flow on of that superiority is to imply and impute and then put into place policies of inferiority and you know how bad that looks. So we're not backing down at all. Rather, we're going to rocket up because people need to know that this country called New Zealand has fallen dramatically on the basis of divisive policies like co-governance. Co-governance based on what? Race. That's simple and worse than that. Based on ethnic numbers, where sometime the numbers impute Māori when the person's got one part in 512. See the picture in the forward that's going on here? Meanwhile, real issues of Māori want housing, health education, access to education, health education and housing and first world wages just passed by the wayside. Māori want the same thing as everybody else. Yeah. And if that's the case, why aren't we just everybody else? I was showing a graphic on X formerly known as Twitter yesterday and it's just got a short message but it applies to this topic that we're talking about. It says it didn't start with the gas chambers. It started with one party controlling the media, one party controlling the message, one party deciding what is truth, one party censoring speech and controlling the opposition, one party dividing citizens into us versus them and calling on their supporters to harass them. It started when good people turned a blind eye and let it happen. And that's what we saw in between 2020 and 2023. That's exactly what we saw in New Zealand. Yeah, that's the truth. There's a famous, this is near my life from Germany. He said that he's going through all the groups. They came for so-and-so and I wasn't one of them. They came for so-and-so and I wasn't one of them. And he goes through all the cases and said, and then they came for me and there was not a very left to defend me. And he wasn't precisely right. So these people were extrapolating their interpretations with no authority or veracity whatsoever. But what's been amazing, I can tell you, but I can't give you the names, but the number of senior experienced journalists have called me to say stick to it. You're on the right pathway. Don't leave off. Well, that's the feedback that I'm getting, you know, just walking on the beach this morning at Takapuna. I had someone stop me and say, do you see what Winston's doing? He's saying the right thing. This is what people on the street are saying or on the beach in this case are saying. Well, that's the thing. But what is imaged here and screams it is that you've got people in the media who think that they're so special that they've got tremendously unique insights that everybody else out there is nobody. It's that arrogance that I find quite crushing. And worst of all, that's that arrogance that needs people to not report everything in the marketplace, but only one booth in the marketplace, so to speak. The old media town choir of the former age saying over here, over here, all these products are over there. No, let us talk about one product, the one that they support. I was on the AM show this morning, a morning show for TV One. Soon to be defunct. Well, the thing was, they began with a lie and thought they could stick to it. And so you got to kick back as hard as you can because I was saying, you listeners need to know what the truth is and they're not hearing from you. They wouldn't have liked that. Oh, well, they had a staggered look. How dare he talk to me this way? And I feel like saying, how dare you perform so badly when your producer is going to be watching you and knowing that's not going down to good for you if you're a medium, that is. Well, you just have to look at what's happening on X. You know, Tover O'Brien put up something yesterday on X and almost every comment on it is, why don't you shut up? Winston's right. That was incredible. It's about 99 to one. Oh, it's terrible. They call it ratioing. She got absolutely slammed. I thought they're going to accuse me of doing all the tweets and all the comments, but I didn't. I just hadn't been referred to there by one of my staffs and you better go and have a look at that. Yeah. It's extraordinary. And you know, I'm saddened by them because it means that their duration in this industry, it's not going to be for much longer. What was interesting is that the spin-off and Tover O'Brien went running off to the probably the sole remaining living band member of a one hit wonder band and the guitarist and tried to create a stink over that. Your press releases show that you're having immense fun with all of this. And I particularly like the one where you said you were going to pick another song from them, but you found they didn't have any. That's right. But the thing is, here we are at Palmerston North. Maybe they're always packed with people outside, but this preposterous thing all the way there in Liverpool after all those years, the band, when it has been disbanded, they had a view. Oh, no, they didn't. Some lifty shill from spin-off wrongly informed the guy and by the time he met up his mind, he was adamant about it, but at the very close, he wasn't too certain about it, even in that interview. And that's for the legal side, but I thought this is extraordinary. They went off to get it to a legal expert as well. And with the greatest respect to that legal expert, he had no expert on this matter. You show me the precedent case he's talking about. And I'm not talking about NMM and National because they were using it in their campaign advertising. I was talking about a public meeting. Yeah, exactly. But it's a massive beat up. But you know, I was talking to a mate and he says, I reckon Winston probably slipped a few quid to that band to have a go so that he could keep the story running for another day. Well, there are people out there who are so disconnected and so unbalanced, they would believe that instantly. Well, they probably would. Look, it's been going for four days now. Do you think you can get it to carry on to the weekend? Oh, they will not leave often until they find out by Sunday, but it'll go all the way to the weekend because there are variations on their bias. Yeah. Have you ever had a state of the nation speech that has had so much coverage? No. No, that's the part they're going to accuse me of. You did it all to get coverage. No, I didn't. I just made one statement and all of a sudden they're there. All these journalists were there. They didn't like me telling them though, things like, for example, what did you do about talking about the true state of the economy last year? The public interest fund, the bribes. What did you do about that? You guys did nothing. That's what I said to them all. And of course, they're sitting there with what I think called a psychological condition called recognition hunger and a medical condition called group venom. And they decided to take another. There's a famous line from General Abram C. Made his name in the Second World War in the forest on the outskirts of Germany, France. And he got cut off. He had 250 men under his control. He got cut off by the Germans and is in serious isolation. And those days, they have a backpack that's half the size of a done car on your back as the phone. And his generals only got in contact with them. The conversation went right through the American troops in a sense. And they said, we've got to go and find this guy. But the general said to him, what's happening, what's happening? And he said, what's happening? They've surrounded us again, the poor bastards. And that's how I feel at the moment, right? Well, they surrounded you again, but you're about to fight your way through them. Well, they said, we've got to go and find that guy. He's got the right attitude. Well, they actually named the Abrams tank after him. That's how revered he is in the US Army. Yes, he went on to be a commander, allied forces. Vietnam, sadly, was the war they should never have entered. They hadn't studied the true state of the affairs over there between Vietnam and China. But that's another story. Oh, yes. We can talk history all day long, as you and I do often. There's a lot of talk. Bryce Edwards wrote an article on Tuesday saying that the government's in trouble. They've only got this much percentage in an average of the polls. You've got Benedict Collins who's saying, has the Prime Minister told you off? Has he ticked you off? Are you in trouble with that? You've got all these other journalists. What is the state of the coalition, Winston? Well, there's Benedict Collins who called me, asked me one time, are you a crook? You know, this would be with respect to the serious court office. So we spend hundreds of thousands, rather, of our own money in two major court cases and win both times. And he never has the decency to apologize. Then the last thing he shouted out to the day, this is arrogant. He said, has the Prime Minister told you to pull your head in? Isn't that a great question for a journalist to ask? Has the Prime Minister told you to pull your head in? See how frustrating he is? My answer is Benedict, I can't see you lasting long on his profession at all, not down in Parliament. People like you can become irrelevant. Well, that's right. They can become irrelevant because everyone recognises how biased they are. And so no one then wants to talk to them. And when you're a journalist in the press gallery, you need people to talk to you. Otherwise, you're not going to get stories. Well, you know, the great PR people, the great lobbyists, that met him and great journalists also have one feature. They talk to everybody. And that's critical. That's why they're telling the marketplace what the product of ideas is on the market. They tell them what the full quality of the product is, not just one product. You know, I look back at the press gallery and there's some pretty famous names. They're just brilliant journalists. Sadly, you know, there's not many of them left. In fact, I'd argue there's probably only one left. And he's only working part-time at his job. But the rest of them seem to have no understanding of history, no understanding of how the political process works. And they're running around trying to get somebody on things that are not important. No one in the street cares whether or not, Chris, it concedes that you like the drunk uncle at a wedding. But, you know, no one cares about that sort of stuff. What they care about is how much their petrol costs, whether their mum or their dad can get a hip operation or something like that, whether the teachers are teaching the kids how to read and write and spell things properly. That's what people care about, not these sledges and not these idiotic, gotcha-type moments. Well, you know, my reaction to Mr. Hipkins is, Mr. Hipkins, you can tell me what a woman is. I'll take you seriously. Yeah. But this is how bad he was. He was asked, can you, Mr. Hipkins, describe what a woman is? And he said, I'll get back to you. See what's wrong? Totally. Now, as the foreign minister, I've got a bit of an interest in the Pacific having been born in Fiji. You've just recently come back from a trip to Fiji. How'd that go? It was excellent, actually. It was really quite comprehensive as well. We went to the barracks, so to speak. Victoria Barracks? Yep. We went there for a reception they put on. It was huge. I could be totally unaware. And then I spent some time with a number of people over there. But I got a chance to probably meet, well, half the cabinet, one function. Which is great, really. And then I spent some time with Ram Booker, who I know have known for a long, long time. And others, the elite of the other political persuasions I got to see some of them. And all in all, this reinforcement of the reconnection, and we're going to have to do a whole lot more work with Fiji. And of course, the Pacific Forum is there, the Pacific Islands Forum. But we signaled all that. And then since that time, look, I have been to India to talk to their foreign minister. And we talked with them about a program that they've got to set up a hospital in, guess where, Fiji. A new Indian hospital in Fiji. And then I talked to the foreign minister for Indonesia on my way back as well. And I was talking about a wide range of subjects, including Fiji. And they're going to work with us together, New Zealand and Indonesia, to put together a project in Fiji. So it's really quite exciting when you think about it. Yeah, because there's been a lot of inroads made into the Pacific by China, using their cash to carry favor with Pacific nations. And New Zealand and Australia have sat there, in many respects, wagging their finger at these Pacific nations, whilst the Chinese have been burying millions and millions of dollars into their infrastructure. Well, it's been my concern, and it was for some time in my younger political career, as to the approach being taken by New Zealand and Australia with the Pacific Islands. We're concerned. And my approach has been decidedly different. I've spelt it out over and over again. And that is when you're, no matter how small that country is, when you're in that country or you're talking with them, never underestimate the need for them to be regarded as total equals. We expect that when dealing with large countries. They've got a right to expect it when we're dealing with smaller nations. Yeah, at any time I've been in Fiji talking to government people, and this goes back quite some years, back to the Bani Marama years. The feedback that I got from locals in Suva was that they're quite like Kiwis coming up there and doing business and being involved in the government level. They really don't like Australians an awful lot, other than for the tourism. Well, there have been changes in Australia's approach as well, of late. And I've got no doubt that they would have seen the previous two, Penny Wong, Foreign Minister. They'd have seen a different person, a different approach. But certainly I've sought always to ensure that they could never accuse me of patronising or coming the senior soldier and all those things which we Kiwis hate, which are not replicated in our behaviour, are they? How about the recent visit from China to New Zealand? How did that go? Well, it was great to reconnect with Wong Yi. I mean, he was a foreign minister for a long time. Then he left that scene and another person took his place. And all of a sudden, mid-last year, there was a switch back to Wong Yi. And I've never asked what happened to the previous one. So I was reconnecting with him for the first time since 2018 in China when I was in the Nassau. I've seen him in a different forum after that, but not in China. And they were obviously, actually I put it not in an un-nice way, but they were on a charm offensive. So we had a great discussion about a lot of things, something we didn't agree on. I raised the issues, you know, like the Uighurs, like Hong Kong, what happened to the one country, two systems, which I was aware of on that and over, which I attended in 1997. It's a long time ago. So I said to him, you know, if we've got a difference with you, we're going to call it if you don't mind, speak our mind. It's called Treaty People's Equal. It's funny because I haven't seen any of that reported in the New Zealand media anywhere, particularly that you raised the issue with the Uighurs. The New Zealand media, I got six journalists into telling specifically what happened. Again, the time of day, early in the next morning. No, guess what they've reported on in the main? They've reported on Foreign Minister Wong Yi's in New Zealand, but he's going to Australia. Are you like that? That was the headline. But I would have thought raising the issue with the Uighurs, which is kind of a third rail issue for the Chinese. Yes. Would have been reported. I mean, if Jacinda Ardern had met the Chinese Foreign Minister and raised the Uighurs, they would have been waxing lyrical about how she challenged the Chinese Foreign Minister. You're exactly right. You know, Wong Yi, Foreign Minister Wong Yi got to see Mr. Luxon. He got to see the trade minister, Todd McClay. Now, you've got to ask yourself, why didn't they think that was worth covering? This fellow's coming from this huge economy, big population, second biggest population to India in the world. He's in our country, and they didn't think it was worthy of headlines. So it begs the question, don't they understand that trade is critical to our future? Well, otherwise, we'll all sit around cutting each other's hair and thinking everything's wonderful. Yeah, taking each other's washing and going broke. Yeah. For New Zealand, trade is imperative, but it has to be trade on fair terms. But you're quite right, and on fair terms. But, you know, trade has been seriously of enormous help to us, and it's been of enormous help to China, because Chinese need to feed their people. They need to do a lot of things, and they know they haven't got all the resources, and so that's been good for them as well. But here we are, a country hardly dependent on trade, and now media don't seem to understand it. What on earth is going wrong here? And more worried about whether or not you used the right song or not? Ah, yes, you know. And that's the point. They said he's been using it in all his meetings. No, I haven't. Somebody on my staff thought it was quite a funny idea, and I thought, actually, they're right. It sounds good. I'll try it. I did it down in Palmerston North. I had no idea that reverberating on the BBC would be my meeting in Palmerston North. How do you look like that? There's not many people can put Palmerston North on the map, and you've managed it. It's hilarious. Yeah, I mean, there were 700 people. Yeah, the photos I've seen of them, they were standing room only at the back. You didn't use the usual little trick of putting out the chairs and then removing two rows so everybody has to stand. I mean, the National Party used to do that, I know, because Dad taught me that trick. There's only 600 chairs there, and they were out more on the side, out the back door, and many people couldn't get in, so there's well over 700. You think that would be important? No, they described it as a meeting of the party base. No, it wasn't. There were a stack of people there. There were a lot of National Party people there. You'd be pretty happy if you had 700 members in Palmerston North, wouldn't you? But you're being logical. You worked it out. I know the biggest party in Australasia about it, but they said it. So what do you do? Well, you just press on regardless. I've got to press on and keep on being reminded by my staff, Winston, be charitable, be forgiving, keep smiling. It's not so easy these days. I've seen a lot of smiling this week, and you can thank the media for that. You're a busy man. I better let you go. Thank you for taking the time to talk to the crunch, and we'll get you on again sometime soon. I'll just give you an idea now. I got up here to work early this morning, but I began the day by talking to the Spanish Foreign Minister. I'm going to be talking to the Romanian ambassador from Canberra today at four o'clock, then on to the Foreign Minister for the Marshall Islands, and then on to the ambassador for Egypt, and later on tonight to the Foreign Minister for Malaysia. So it's a heavy day to work, and it's all about this country's better cooperation and better advancement of our trade and our values and the rules-based system that keeps the countries like us going. There's a lot of work involved here, but I don't get that either. No, they don't. Once again, Winston, thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us. Thank you very much, and good luck to your show and your listeners. They love hearing you on the show, Winston, so they'll be very pleased to hear this. No, thank you very much. Excellent. OK, thank you. Bye-bye. Presipkins might think Winston Peters is like a drunk uncle at a wedding, but after his shellacking about wine biscuits, he may be a bit more circumspect in doing that again. Winston certainly isn't holding back with his contempt for the lying legacy media, and nor should he. Tell me your thoughts on what Winston had to say by emailing inbox at realitycheck.radio or text to 2057. Thank you for tuning in to RCR Reality Check Radio. If you like what you're listening to, either way, we want to hear from you. Get in touch with us now. You can text us with your message to 2057. That's 2057. Or email us at inbox at realitycheck.radio. We would love to hear from you. So connect with us today.