 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump, with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this controversial, we got a little heated in this episode of Mind Putt in the Beginning at One. I might lose a couple of followers in this one. In the beginning, we did a 55-minute intros where we cover front events. Trying to trim the fat right now. Here's what we talked about in the first 55 minutes. We talked about the Everly Well tests that we took. These are the hormone tests that we all took on testing our testosterone levels. They have lots of different hormone tests and tests. We love Everly Well. By the way, we got a lot of people that listen over there. Just so you guys know. Oh, we do. Yeah, I don't know if you guys know that. Well, check this out. Awesome. If you go to everlywell.com, that's E-V-E-R-L-Y-W-E-L-L Enter the code Mind Pump. You'll get 15% off any test. But we also talked about how Mind Pump typically handles our sponsors. Yeah. Don't tell us what to do. We also talked about my kids' new dog, Coco. He's a cute little guy. Talk about pets and health. Little foofy foof. Polygamy and violence. Yeah, there's a connection there. What? Roseanne got canceled. Then it got heated. We talked about the state of race relations in America. And Colin Kaepernick gets touchy right here. And Adam's opinion on his approach, or should we say, flawed approach. And there may be a better way to improve race relations. We talked about the growing subscription model and the rise, and we predict, fall of masterminds. Then we get into the questions. The first question was, how do we gauge the right level of intensity or resistance level when doing trigger sessions? Look, we mentioned rubber bandits. Actually, that's our preferred place to get bands to do things like trigger sessions. We actually have them on our website. They are on our website. They get a deal, so make sure you go through the link. Jackie will put it in the show notes. Yeah, just go to mindpumpmedia.com, and you can find them and click on them. Best in the business. The next question was, what are our favorite oblique exercises? And we're talking about obliques, the muscles of the obliques, not exercises that are weird. Yeah, it's so oblique. Exactly. The next question was, look, we're called mind pump. But what do we actually do to exercise our brains? I feel like this was an insult. Yeah, like brain crunches. Yeah, we don't do much. The final question was, just throw out all the time. The final question was that, I always talk about free markets, and how awesome they are. What flaws do we see within the free market? This one might surprise you. Might not think that they'll be all end all. Also, this is the final day. What? The last day. Final, final? It's the final day. There's no more days after this for the following. Free intuitive nutrition guide, free fasting guide, with the enrollment of any maps fitness bundle. Now bundles where we take multiple maps programs, put them together, and discount them like 30% off. You wrap them up and serve them nice. It's already a huge discount, so big and massive. But if you do, if you do get a bundle right now, because it is still available, you will get the intuitive nutrition guide and the fasting guide absolutely for free after today, this offer will be gone. If you're interested or you just have questions, go to our website, mindpumpmedia.com. You haven't taken your testosterone test yet, huh, Doug? Not yet. Waiting to get a couple of good nights sleep before I do it. I will make a prediction. I will predict that your testosterone is probably the highest, yeah. I wouldn't doubt that. I hope you're right. Yeah, he's got a lot of shit built up in there. That's why. It's like a volcano. Yeah, bro, he's ready to rush, man. Oh, my God. That test is gonna go off the charts. He's gonna get a phone call instead of an email. This is gonna novel the doctor. Here's a number. You need to let some of that testosterone out. You heard of the Mustang Ranch, yeah. Did you do yours? I did mine, yeah, so I just sent it off, so I'm curious to see what numbers I get back. So what did you do? You woke up first thing in the morning? Woke up first thing in the morning and then spit in that vial, basically. Like, it took actually a while to spit in there. It was like- Because you probably have dry mouth. Yeah, it was dry mouth and like, you know, it was actually- And you can't count foam because if you spit so much like you have to actually be saliva. I was like, wow, it's just taking it a lot, you know, to fill this thing up. Thinking about it, it was kind of weird, but yeah, no, so I filled it up and then I put it in the freezer and then the next day I sent it off, so yeah. I can't wait to see what the numbers are and compare everybody's numbers in here and see what those look like. I thought yours would be back by now. It's only like- It should be. I should have it back today. It's only, it's a five-day turnaround, right? Once they get it, it's around five days. I still haven't gotten it, I should get it soon. And like I said, I want to compare it to what I did last year. And last year I was under a lot of stress and I wasn't feeling as good as I am now. Don't make excuses. I know, right? I was just about to make some excuses. Well, no, no, last year I felt- I don't know if I was at my peak. Because at the end of the day, I think the thing that we agree on this, right, with these tests, even though, Matt, because I know there's people that are like, oh, well, that's not as accurate. Of course it's not, it's not going to be as accurate as going to the doctor, getting your blood work done and so with that, but- It's actually pretty accurate. Yeah, well, no, it's pretty, it's like compared, like I said, it's like comparing the hydrostatic, you know, dunk tank to a skin fold, you know what I'm saying? Like, they are within a percentage it will give you really, especially if you're using it as a tool to measure what you're doing, helping or not. For certain hormones, cortisol, testosterone, and now the female health hormones, saliva tests are very accurate. And Everly Wells tests are, you know, among the best. So it is very, very accurate. Would you consider, is it more accurate than blood? It's just as accurate, they have the same range. Yeah, and the reason why- We get a baseline, right, that way that we can work with. What we're testing is we're testing free tests. So you don't get a total test, you don't get total test on this particular testosterone test, it shows you free test, which is, you know, that's really the important number because you could have a high testosterone but have so much of it be bound by with sex-binding globulin. But that sounds like what Dozo have then. Mate, what, a lot of, a lot of binding. A lot of sex-binding globulin. He's a release hit. A lot of globulin. Yeah. He's spreading out that globulin. Oh my God, that sounds gross. Oh, it does. But you know what I think, I think- I like that Everlywell is much cooler about us talking about their product than Roman. Roman got all butt hurt about our- Why'd they get so butt hurt? Yeah, you know, I don't know, you know, Taylor's- I think they're happy now. No, they were happy now. I hope so, because no, we're gonna flex on them, bro. I told Taylor that, I said, fucking, send their money back, dude. We would fucking, that's not how we re-roll. Like, we're not gonna be pitching things the way you want to. We're gonna try your shit, we like your shit, then we're gonna do something for you, and then we're gonna talk about it. And we did. And we're gonna talk about it the same way with my friends or anybody else. I'm not gonna fucking sell your shit, you know what I'm saying? No, no, and they have a good- Keep it one hundo. They have a really good, you know, way of delivering prescription medication. So it's really good, that's why we talk about them. It is funny though, because we'll work with sponsors and when they don't know us or know who we are or how we operate, I should say, they'll always be like, okay, here's what you're gonna read, and we want 30 seconds at this spot. Yeah. And we basically go, yeah, now we're not gonna- Yeah, we're gonna roll that away. Yeah, we're gonna do exactly what we want. Do you think OrganiFi said? Cool ideas. Do you think OrganiFi's like, Hey, talk about how our green juice increases seminal volume? No, that was my idea. Well, you know, it's completely, you know, after the fact, right? Cause we don't even, this is how bad we are. You know, all these companies, you guys don't even know this, cause I don't even bother wasting my time singing to you guys, but every company that we work with sends over like a whole thing of rules. And, you know, it has to be this, this long call to action. You know, and things like companies like Roman these companies that deal with hormones and pills like Viagra, shit like that, they can't, they don't want you making jokes about it. It needs to be very, it's about being professional and serious, which does not- All medical. Yeah, it doesn't go really well. It's exactly why I made a joke in there. Yeah. I'm such an asshole. Right. That's hilarious. I do that every time. We literally, I think I was, I was reading back over it cause, you know, they, they, they said something to Taylor and Taylor was telling me, he's like, you'd be really proud of why I fucking handled this shit. I was like, good dude. Yeah, he did. I was sitting in the room when he did it. Oh, you were. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Both of me and Justin were. Oh, you guys were. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. It was almost- It was funny, he got all heeded. Was it at a mask? It was, yes. It was- A little bit. Oh, really? Yeah, he's been hanging out with you too long. It was all- It's only taken a year and a half of training. Bro, I almost jumped in. I almost- He was sharp with him. I almost like massaged his shoulders. Yeah. Cause he was going off. He got all fired up. He did. Probably a proud father right now. Yeah. Taylor's gangster. I feel like if you mess with one of his siblings, he'd probably kill someone. You know what I mean? He's got that kind of gangster-ness inside of him. Oh yeah. Oh, he definitely has that. Didn't he lose his shit a little bit at the zoo culture? He did. Cause someone said something to his brother? Yeah, I was just trying to like work in, like right where his brother was standing. Taylor would have got smashed. Cause everybody in there's about 300 pounds. Actually no, cause Justin was there. Yeah, he was like- Justin would have killed someone. He was upset, man. I guess he's just not used to that culture and like people like barging their way in and like being, you know, douchebags. Like that's just like going to happen. You know, it's a gym. My boy runs hot, man. But yeah, he was heated. He runs hot. I saw him at his heated point, you know. If he puts his hair up in a ponytail, you're fucked. That's his call to war. He starts tying that shit up. You're fucked. I'm going samurai. I'm a samurai, yeah. Exactly. You gotta be careful. Yeah, he's going to slice them into this knife hand. Hajah! Anyway, so I didn't tell you guys that my kid's got a dog. Oh yeah, what kind of dog is it? You told me, I don't think you told Justin. It's a small little white, cute one. I don't know what it is. Little fruity poof? It's like a poodle mix of some sort. Yeah. But so I can't- It's another Bella? I can't have, maybe when the hair grows back cause they got it from the pound and they had to trim down the hair because poor puppy or dog wasn't taking well care of wherever it was before. But I can't have dogs where I'm at because the landlord won't allow dogs. So can't stay with me, stays with my ex. But I help, you know, I'll help out, help take care of like if she travels and stuff like that. But what a great, God, it's so good for kids to have that, I can already see. Yeah, it's awesome. Dude, dogs are so great. They teach you so many lessons. I mean, just with kids like responsibility, like, you know, making sure that they're taking care of. Like, dude, and it's fucking tough at the same time. I mean, you just go through it. But yeah, the kids like, oh, they love it, man. They get so attached. It's good for their health too because studies will show that kids that grow up around pets have lower rates, significantly lower rates of autoimmune issues, allergies, and health issues. They can expose all the bacteria and crazy dirt and dander. Yeah, it actually makes a decent difference. So it's like, it makes the case for having a pet in the house for health. Wow, that's an interesting theory. Yeah, I've heard that too. It's not just a theory. It's confirmed consistently across studies like people who grow up in urban areas have far more allergies and autoimmune issues than people who grow up on farms. People who have pets have less of those issues. And I think it's just your immune system is just exposed to more everything, bacteria, fungus, you know, whatever, dirt, dust, whatever. And it's healthy for your immune system to have some level of exposure, you know what I'm saying? But it's funny, I picked up the kids from school yesterday, brought them to the house because we had to check on the dog and my daughter's telling me all about what she's doing with Coco, that's the name of the dog. And she's like, she's like, we had so much fun. And this dog's super, super relaxed. It's like the most chill dog of all time, which is perfect. Mine is not. Yeah, your dog ate the table. He's a fucking madman. He fucking ate the table. You know what he reminds me of? Yeah, like a little woodchuck or like a fucking, like a gremlin. It's like a little gremlin. That's mazzy, bro. He'll choose like the corners of the stairwell and shit like that. Yeah, he drives me crazy, dude. Why? Oh, that's hilarious. But anyway, she's telling me stories about what she was playing with the puppy. And she's like, and I got my Barbies out and he was pretending to be the monster. And then Barbie was riding him. And I'm just picturing this poor dog. You know what I mean? With the Barbie on his back. Yeah, and he's so relaxed, like he lets her do whatever. But he's probably thinking to his head like, all right, listen, I'm gonna be cool because I just moved in. Dude, I laugh so hard when kids like incorporate the pets into like their play and stuff. Like when we had that lizard, I remember going downstairs and there was this whole track built like for like a train. And the kids are in there with the lizard on top of this little train. And it's like going through all these things. And they're laughing and having a great old time. I was just like, take that poor lizard off of that thing, man. It just looked like he was holding on for dear life. Ah, fuck, somebody help me. Yeah, yeah. That's hilarious. When we were younger, when we were kids, we had a little mixed dog. I don't know what it was, but his name was Limo. Don't ask me why that was his name. My dad, bro, my dad names dogs. I don't know where my dad comes up with the ideas and name dogs. For example, the very first dog I had when I was a kid was a pit bull. So it's a pit bull, right? So my dad named him Pit. Pit, yeah, Pit. My grandfather had a Chihuahua and he named the dog Chihuahua. So this is just a very creative name. But I don't know where Limo came from. But anyway, my sister one day comes in. She's like, oh my God, I taught Limo to dance with me. And she's like, come outside. So we're like, what? So we all go outside. He puts his legs up on her leg and he's humping her. And she's like, yeah. Wow, he's a dancing machine. And my dad gets the hose and he goes, he's a grinder. Ain't nothing wrong with a little butt. Like that's all plain background. My sister was so young. She was like eight. And she's like, why did you spray Limo? He's dancing. He's dancing. No, don't dance with the dog. Do not dance with the dog. That's illegal. Fucking Limo. He used to fuck everything. So I was reading. Bad dog. Yeah, terrible dog. So I was reading this interesting article. When I hear what you guys think about this, I did not know this science. And I did some research and there's a lot of study on this. Apparently monogamy, where people pair up, one guy, one girl, traditionally, right, reduces major social problems, in particular, violence. So when they compare societies and cultures that have polygamy. So polygamous societies where men will marry more than one or have more than one mate, that contributes to or seems to contribute to violence. And when there's monogamy, there's less violence. Now the theory is, and this is by the way, this is established. Like anthropologists talk about this all the time. And I know it's established. I looked it up and I read several articles on it. And I guess it reduces crime, violence, poverty, all those things. And so a lot of anthropologists think that monogamy was the reason why we started to socially push for that was because we saw how much better it worked for society. And the theory is that. Either that or you're so miserable, you don't have the energy to fight. Yep. If you have five women, you're going to be, oh, my God. You might be way too much trauma. You might be more miserable. You just get cashed in, fuck it. Exponential. Not even worth the fight, dude. Not even worth the fight. Well, no, I look at it and I'm like, God, no, thanks. Too many people coming down on me. But you know, they talk about it. And they think that it's because in societies that allow for polygamy, because there's always, every society has hierarchies, right? And some people will have more resources and smarter and all those other things and other people will be lower. That men will start to get all the, and because women are attracted to men on the hierarchy and men with resources, that they'll start to get lots of women and men that are lower on the hierarchy will get none. And this is a true statistic now. Men without a mate who are young, the rate of violence is so much higher amongst them versus when they find a mate and they start being monogamous with someone, especially if they have a child. If a man has a child with someone and is together with that person, the rate of violence drops considerably. So if you got a bunch of single dudes or a bunch of dudes that can't get women because all the women are with the, you know- That makes sense. Then they tend to be violent. Yeah, that makes sense, right? It's fucked up. I think the kid part alone makes a big difference, right? Oh yeah. I mean, your whole purpose in life changes once that happens, right? Did you know a man's testosterone levels drop after he has a child? Did you know that? I can attest to that. Oh man. Or we'll see in our results with Everly well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What that did to me. I haven't checked since. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know if they, I don't think they've separated out- Have either of you talked to your girls about the possibility of that? Of what? Polygamy. I would not want to do that. No. I mean, I've asked like- Like what her thoughts are? Not necessarily that you would do it or anything. No, I just like brought up a conversation of that. Right, yeah, yeah. What does Courtney say? I don't know. She's like, fuck no. Oh no, no, no. Yeah, she's- Yeah, she's not- I try and convince Katrina like once every six months in that direction. Once every six months I bring it up when we bring it up on the show or like that. I mean, think about it as like, honey, what if you picked the woman? And she's like, she's like, well, what if we get a other guy then? Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, I get to pick the guy? Well, okay, I can think about it. You know what I'm saying? Like a best friend, a living best friend. You just high-five. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Living best friend who it's like when she's driving me- Hey bro, it's your turn. Oh yeah. Yeah, I hung out with her the last three days. She's driving me crazy and stuff like that. You go hang out with her. Yeah, we'll meet up at the game tomorrow. You know what though? I think guys- Okay, come on. I think guys think of polygamy and they think it's like you just get to have sex with a bunch of women. No, you have a bunch of wives. Yeah, you have- Two or three wives. Two or three wives. Manage all that. That doesn't make any sense to me. I watched this- One relationship is complex enough. You're gonna throw a bunch of other. And then here's the other thing because I've seen documentaries on polygamy and I've read articles on it. And what tends to happen, if you have three wives or four wives, they become friends. They start to become friends and partners. And guess who- They co-conspire. Yeah, you're fucking outnumbered homie. Yeah, yeah. That's why it might be more to your advantage to have a living guy friend too that's working the other side. So you have someone to get your back a little bit. Say it. Maybe make some rules. I don't know if I want him to get my back. I'm just gonna be honest. You can figure that one out. Maybe just make some rules like, all right, you can't sleep with her but you can cuddle with her. So after I have sex with her, you sneak in and you sleep downstairs by the basement. I'll go watch TV. I'll use you and I need you. Oh no, that's terrible. Oh man. Did you guys see Rosanne got canceled? Yes. Dude, what? I mean, why? You know what she- She made some stupid racist- No, I mean, why did she do that? She's Rosanne. What the hell? She's crazy. You know what, that's the big talk right now and the big talk where I cannot believe that we're still talking about Colin Kaepernick and the NFL. Yeah. And making such a big fucking deal. You know, there's a, I was listening to a talk show radio, radio talk show this morning of sports and they're talking about the Colin Kaepernick thing. And it's so funny how we're, you know, media is like targeting the NFL is like this, you know, white supremacists and it's just like all this, all this shit, all this bad stuff on the NFL. First of all, the NBA has the exact same rules. People don't know that. Like no one talks about it, but it's like they have the same goddamn rules. They just don't have, they haven't had to enforce it or they haven't had any issue with it. So no one's pointing the finger at them. So they have the same rules. And then to say that the organization is racist, it's just so crazy to me. The guy brought up some stats about like, you wanna talk about a, there's not a single other organization that has made more black men, multi-millionaires than the NFL. So how could you sit there and say some shit like that? Like that's, it's so ass backwards. I'm sure there's some, I'm sure there's racist people. Of course there is. There's everywhere. In churches, in schools, in big companies that we all love and use. Like it's everywhere. You'll never get away from it. Here's what the NFL is guilty of, they're a business. That's it. They're gonna make money. So you know why they're forcing them to stand for the national anthem? Cause the consumers want it. And the same reason why Rosanne's getting fired. It's a business. It doesn't look good for our business. And we employ your ass. We write your fucking checks. See you later. We don't like that. We don't like, we don't like racism. We don't like that talk. So as great as it much as millions of viewers that wanna watch you. Can we just agree we don't like racism and get back to football? Right. Can we do that? I don't know. You know what's, love that. What's funny on that, on that tip with Colin Carpacapernick cause he was, he was doing it for, I guess police brutality and the way, you know, my know where to get treated and all that stuff. And a lot of police departments have now been putting cameras on police officers. Which I think is a great idea. I think that's a fantastic idea to have it be recorded so that we can actually see what's going on. And I, we talked about this actually a while ago. I think it was like a couple of years ago on an episode. And I made a prediction. I said, I bet you more cops will be, we're gonna realize that more of these complaints are actually bullshit than are actually real. Cause I know, I know police officers. You know what? I know, look. I watched one of these yesterday, literally yesterday on Facebook. It was somebody sending out like it was a Yale student and somebody said that these police officers were harassing this African-American woman that's a Yale student. And they're saying that then they were, they were also working with this, this white girl. And the way they spoke to the African-American lady was disrespectful. And I watched the whole thing. And from the very get go, she was already kind of like an attitude with them. And the irony was it was a black cop that was sitting there talking to her. And everybody was like, I can't believe that how racist this is. And I'm like, this doesn't even, it doesn't even add up and make sense to me. Did you guys see that? It went all over, it went all over Facebook the last couple of days. So to me, I don't know, even though you see the videos, like people are scrutinizing the cops like for every, like if a cop demands or asks for something right away. I mean, it reminds me of that Get Out movie, right? Like that was a classic example of the girl who like starts defending her boyfriend right away when he gets pulled over and he's like, did- Nothing happened. Yeah, he asked. No, they, you remember what happened in that scene? Yeah, I do. He hit a deer, right? And then the cop comes out and the cop is asking for the IDs and stuff like that. And she's like, why are you asking for his ID? He didn't do anything wrong. And he's like, well, I'm, you know, an accident just happened. Like I'm rolling up on a scene. It's part of our protocol to ask for everybody's IDs just cause he wasn't the driver doesn't mean I can't. You know what I'm saying? We're actually, we need to talk about this because racism is terrible. I think the vast majority of Americans a hundred percent agree with that statement. The evidence is clear in the sense that if a racist video surfaces, the reason why it goes viral is literally because people find it abhorrent. People think it's disgusting. Everybody's on board with that. And businesses and people suffer. If you're a public figure and you even hint that just being called racist can destroy your career. You don't even have to do anything. So people for the most part, you know, show those things. And if we look at the history of America, we're not perfect by far. We have a lot of room to go. And I definitely think some, we don't have any outright racist laws anymore that say specifically, like if you're black, if you're whatever, but we do have laws that affect minorities more than other people. Like the main one is the war on drugs. And you know, we can always talk about that. But attitudes towards race is, you know, in 1958, only 5% Gallup polls showed only 5% of people supported black and white people getting married. This was when they would poll black and white people, right? Very few people said we should get married. 1958, today it's something like 90-something percent think that it's not a big deal. That's a huge, and I know it sounds like a long time, but it really isn't when you look at the attitudes of, so we've made huge progress. And what I like about cameras on cops is that it's objective, we can watch it and see what's going on. And you know what's happening in these police departments? More, less false accusations are being made. Less racism accusations are being made because I think people are being filmed. They know they're being filmed. And so you see, you're actually seeing less of it. And so I- You can't bullshit. And I appreciate that. I do think, however, you know, subconsciously, are there outright racist people? 100%. But I think there's a lot of subconscious racism that happens. And I don't think it's necessarily, I don't like this person because of the skin color or not. I just think we stereotype based on how people look. And you know, it's funny. I was at the gas station and this kid walks in the gas station, white kid, but he was, he was tatted up to his neck. He was sagging his pants. And you know, you just, he looked like somebody you'd wanna keep an eye on. And the guy, the gas station guy was keeping an eye on him. And I'm like, well, that's also a form of stereotyping, right, because of the way he's dressed. But he kind of, I mean, I don't know, can you blame the guy or is it, you know, it may be subconscious and everybody does it. Black, white, Mexican, you know, Asian, we all stereotype people. So I don't think you can necessarily get rid of it. I think the right thing to do is be aware of it and keep putting social pressures on people to evolve and grow and point out real things. But you know, it's interesting. I read an article on this by Thomas Sowell, who's a, he's an African American economist. He was a student under Milton Friedman, you know, from the school of Chicago. And I love Thomas Sowell because, well, first off, I agree with his, the way he talks about economics, the very free market guy, but he's also super blunt, super objective, and he'll shut people down and it doesn't matter if they're black, white, whatever. And he wrote an article on racism. And he was talking a lot about how the impacts it has and the impacts that it doesn't have today. And one thing that he said that was really fascinating, and a lot of people don't know this, is college educated black women when you control for, you know, how they grew up, two parent household, all that stuff, they actually out earn college educated white women. So they actually outperform white women before, there's some more interesting statistics. Before 1930, the black unemployment rate was lower than the white unemployment rate. And this is not a controversial thing to say. Definitely more racist in the 1930s or before 1930s than it was today. And their unemployment was lower. Their single, the single parent household rate was one of the lowest in the country in black families. So I think that there's a lot of cultural thing that's going on in America that involve racism or maybe were influenced by racism, but now has become this cycle that we need to kind of get out of. And it's hard to talk about because it's you either sound like you're apologizing for racism or you sound like you want to empathize. Yeah, exactly. That's where it's a tough position to be because like being a voice that's not, you know, within the same race, it's like, how do we have a conversation where we can all kind of collectively figure this out? If it is like we're pointing it out, like, okay. So now where do we go from here? How do we all kind of meld and move forward together and make progress? The thing about it that makes me upset because I'm one of the most anti, I'm one of the most anti-collectivist you'll ever find and collectivizing things versus individualism, collectivism is when you take a group based on something and then you make general assumptions about them. So like we could say men do this, women do this or white people do this or Christians do this or whatever. And I understand that you can sometimes come out with generalizations, but generalizations completely dissolve when you look at the individual completely. Like I can say men, we have science to show that men generally do better on spatial skill testing and women tend to do better on verbal skill testing. But if I take 10 random guys and 10 random women, I test them on an individual basis, that can be all over the place. You can have a guy that totally tests the opposite and a woman that tests the opposite and it's just the way it is. And so I'm very anti-collectivism on all those types of things. And I think that one of the biggest problems with, it's fine too and we should definitely point out racism when it happens in sexism and all the isms, we should definitely point them out, but giving them so much weight and power is very disempowering. Like we have straight so far away from the individual and just judging by character in each case, like regardless of background and like what, where people are coming from, like who are you as a person? Are you a good person in society? Are you doing good things? Yeah, and I understand if you're a minority, you may be in a situation where, or if you're a woman or whatever, you may be in a situation where no one's gonna look at you as an individual because they're gonna make that assumption. Yeah, that's the tough thing, right? How can we eliminate that? What defines a minority in the United States anymore? It's a group that is not the majority. So if most people are, you know, men, then being a woman would be a minority. If you're, if most people have- So almost anybody can be a minority then. You can break it, that's the other thing too is you can break it down in all these small categories and you start to label people based off of this. And what you're doing is you're actually creating a self-defeating, you know, cycle, you know? So it's not, look, if I'm a kid growing up today and I'm a minority and I don't care what, you know, what group you wanna put me in, but I'm a minority. And I keep hearing how disadvantaged I am because of one factor being my race or my gender or my sexual preference or whatever, that I keep hearing that that one factor is not only a factor, but the factor, then I've disempowered myself in the sense that I don't- There's so many things I have control over. And if you take each person and you try to list all the potential things that can influence whether or not they'll be successful, everything from their actions to how they were brought up, to how much money they had, whether or not they had two parents and whether they're good parents and what your race is and your sex is. And then of course, how you receive these things, how do you view them? Because one guy may grow up poor and see it as a huge disadvantage and it crushes them. Another guy may grow up poor and look at it and say I'm never gonna be poor again and be successful. So there's so many, there's an infinite number of things to place so much value or place so much importance on one that, and especially one that you can't control, I think it's kind of dangerous, you know what I mean? I think the conversation should be, it may be a disadvantage sometimes, but there's so many other things that you can control that it's not gonna make a huge difference. Look at like kids growing up, there is one factor that makes a big difference and that's whether or not you grow up in a single parent household. It makes a big fucking difference, but is it a guarantee that you're gonna succeed and fail? No man, I know plenty of people who grew up in single parent households that are incredibly successful at life and I know people who had two parents who grew up in their fucking degenerates, you know? Yeah, I know. And that one factor is stronger than anything that you can think of by the way. You compare anything, race, whatever, single parent household or whether you had two parents at home, that will predict better than anything but it's still a shitty prediction all by itself. So it's just, you know, I don't know, it's just one of those things. But I do, like I said this before, I do appreciate people, you know, speaking their minds peacefully. And so what Colin Kaepernick is doing is he's bringing up a conversation and conversations can get heated and opinions can be polarizing, but it's a conversation, you know? Yeah, I mean, as far as protesting, it was successful on that end, right? Like getting like people to talk about it and using the platform for that. I don't know, I feel like I can argue the other direction too, because it divides us too, man. Well, yeah, that's- Because then you get these two camps and let that feel strongly about it. There's somebody who identifies completely with him and feels so passionate and strong about it that they're gonna argue and yell at racism and it's bullshit. Then you have the other side. You have someone like me who sees it and like, this is ridiculous. Like this is so stupid the way we're handling this and we're doing this. And then you just see these two camps going back and forth at each other and arguably both camps have good arguments on it, but I don't think it's healthy all the time. You know, he's presenting a problem that now like the conflict is him trying to resolve. You're trying to bring awareness to something that- I don't think you can resolve. Well, I don't think there's not awareness there. You know what I'm saying? This is, we live in a time now where information travels so fast. Your feeds are going constantly in Facebook and Instagram. Are you really by kneeling down over a cause? Like, are you really bringing awareness to that? Are you? I don't know, dude. I think what he's doing is- Very few people I know that are talking about that issue or talking anything to do with that. It's all about the NFL and the NFL racist and should they let him go or he could be playing in the NFL right now because he's still that good and now the teams won't let him play or some shit. Like it's turned into this whole other thing. And then people taking sides and like, is it really, is it by talking about it? Is it really healthy? Is it really good? I don't necessarily subscribe to that. I don't know. I think it's always good to, I don't know if the conversation is good but I think it's always good to have eight conversations. Yeah, that's what I think. I think it's just healthy having a conversation about it. If people feel like a certain way about it then talking about it's worth it. Conversation and protesting, two of them things. I think he could have easily wrote a blog or written something about his opinions about something like that. You think his approach could have been better? Oh, 100% his approach could have been better. I mean, wearing socks with cops in uniform that are pigs and doing things and then when you know your job requires that you stand for the national anthem, choosing not to, like are you kidding me? Like that's the way you make a stand. And I know there's people that are listening right now that are going like, oh, he would have not got attention if he didn't do that. Well, yeah, you know what, you got the attention and you got a lot of fucking bad attention and you've caused a division amongst a lot of people. Here's why I think conversations are a good thing because whenever you see, especially in a free society, whenever you see violence erupt, it's usually because there's a lack, people feel like they're not being heard or addressed. So it's like, it's the language of people who feel like they're silenced. It's an explosion of communication but through physical violent means. So conversations like this, although they can turn into violence sometimes, my belief is that they actually reduce it because it comes out with words and people fight and argue and see, I disagree with it. Especially when you have somebody who like Colin Kaepernick who I think is an idiot, I think doing something like this is, I think and because he's got a lot of pool and a lot of fame, he now could win more people on his side and his opinion even though it's not correct. That's why I don't like when celebrities make these types of stances where they think they're doing a lot of good. A lot of the time, and there's not all of them, there's some that make good stands and I think that there's a good conversation to be had. So I'm obviously over-generalizing all famous people but I would argue that a majority of the famous people that make these types of stands do more harm than they do fucking good because a lot of them aren't educated in what the fuck they're talking about and all they end up doing is getting a bunch of people that are die-hard Kaepernick fans that now think the NFL's racist, you know what I'm saying? Because I'm a Kaepernick fan who cares about what he's really talking about. I definitely think they could have been a better representative for the issue and brought to light in a different fashion that would have been more on the intellectual level as far as instead of just making it a divisive stand of like you're either with me or you're against me and it's tough but again, it brings a conversation. So somebody DM me yesterday, I'm trying to find it for you guys so you can see this because I fucking threw up in my mouth. This, he sends me a picture and it's a really artistic, neat looking drawing and it's a picture of Colin Kaepernick but it's not his head, it's Martin Luther King's head. And it's comparing Kaepernick to, and I think it's so disrespectful to Martin Luther King. What Martin Luther King did, that's totally fucking different. He was well thought out and peaceful March. That's the thing, it's just a different, it's a different thought process that went into it. In the spirit of Martin Luther King, he is doing a peaceful protest, so that's good. But I will say this just to back you up, Adam. Here's why I don't listen to Colin Kaepernick. What he's doing right now with the kneeling and all that stuff and talking about police brutality, like I've heard enough people talk about it and say, okay, there's a problem. But I lost respect for him when I saw him sitting at a press conference wearing a Che Guevara shirt. This is a, this was a, this was a guy who slaughtered people who was not for freedom and who openly was racist against black people, openly and gay people, openly racist. So I see someone like Colin Kaepernick wear his shirt or I saw Jay-Z wore his fucking shirt and I know you were uneducated on that guy. Why are you wearing his shirt? You don't even know the guy was racist. Like openly wrote about black people as a racist person. So when I see that and then I see you protesting. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I go, okay, you're just, I feel like you're just emotional and you feel power, you know, you feel a lot of passion about something and you want to speak out. But you gotta be careful. It's ego driven. It's ego driven. I can see that. That's why I don't like it. You know what I'm saying? There's a million things that we can do in this world to help others and to lift other people up and to bring awareness to things. And there's just, and there's so many good people that nobody talk about. There's so many people that we don't, that are in the NFL, that are in the NBA, that are actors and actresses that are doing fucking good work, that are really changing lives, saving lives and doing things and bringing us together as a nation. Nobody's talking about them. But when someone like Colin Kaepernick goes out and he kneels- Will he get the attention? Yeah, kneels down on TV. It's to get attention and stuff like that. And everyone's like, oh, it brought awareness to a conversation that we should talk about. Get the fuck out of here with that. Like that does not, not at all, dude. What I see is what the backlash for the last year, and I've seen the last year, the race topic and the division between black and white again, get worse. We look like we took something that we've been stepping forward for the last 50 years, like you brought up, Sal. It looks like we took five steps backwards now. It's ridiculous. And it's funny if it might feel like that, statistically speaking, we haven't. Statistically speaking, you know, again, America as it sounds, and again, you gotta also understand people who are listening from other countries, our news tends to be world news. I know this when I travel to other countries. I don't see other countries' news on our channels, but I see our shit pop up on other people's TVs, and it's always the bad shit. And so people have this impression that, you know, America is a scary, dangerous, racist place. We're the least racist country in the world, and this has done, I mean, look, the polls show it consistently. We allow the most immigrants. We're definitely still a melting pot. People's attitudes towards other people of other religions and races and whatever, we still rank extremely high, and it's not perfect, but boy, do we progress at an incredibly rapid rate. And one of the best things you could do is this. Here, look, if you're somebody who's like, I'm against stereotyping people, I'm against discrimination. Look, I'll give you an example. I was watching a movie last night where these two kids are growing up and one kid's a nerd, one gets a jock, and the jock kind of picks on the nerd or whatever. Then they get a little older and they both go in the police academy together, and the jock guy does great on the physical test. The nerd does good on the testing part, and so now they look at each other and are like, hey, let's work together and be friends, and then they end up becoming best friends, and I'm watching this and I'm like, you know what that's an example of? That's an example of people voluntarily working together in their best interest and becoming friends as a result. Like the nerd needed the help from the jock for the physical part. The jock needed the nerd's help with the written tests, and they both became best friends in this movie. And this is actually a very realistic, honest representation of how people tend to work together. And there's nothing in the world that's ever proven to bring people together like open markets. Like if you let markets be open, it's gonna be expensive to be racist. It's gonna be expensive to be sexist. It's gonna cost you a lot of money to be an asshole, and what people tend to do is they tend to work together, and then once you start working, because here's the deal, if you expose, you find a racist person, and you expose them to the race that they hate. Like a real racist person, not a fake racist. Not a fake news racist person. Have them work together for a while. It starts to change their mind. It might not completely change their mind, but to the point where they stop hating each other. And this is just what ends up happening. You take white and black kids or Mexican kids or whatever, put them all together, have them work together, have them grow up together, and they may start off stereotyping each other, but then they become friends, and look at people in the military. There's a really easy example, or a really easy way to break down why somebody is racist. It's very awkward. Well, it's ignorant to their own patterns that they've developed over time. Right, so I mean, if you take somebody, and we'll lay off the black and white things so much to be hit in that, because it could be anything else. Let's just say that in my lifetime, I've totally, I've met and spoke to only 10 Asian people. 10, that's it in my entire life. And out of the 10, eight of them said something rude to me or mean to me and offended me. So in my mind, you're not gonna be able to convince me in my mind that a majority of them are not mean or bad people because that was my experience. And I had enough, I had 10, I had enough experience where I could go at the average most all, in fact, it's rare that I meet one that's nice, that's cool or whatever. But what makes people racist is the ignorance, like you said, to that fact that I just happened to meet all the 10 people I meet are bad people, or eight of the 10 people I meet are bad people. And it's just that happens all the time to people, all the time, they just, they happen to run into or have bad experiences with whatever race it may be. And so then they just group. I think that's true. I mean, I've literally seen that growing up, like certain friends of mine that I've had that I knew, I knew that they had this like racist, like back, like you could just feel that they had this sort of like, you know. Undertone. Undertone behind like their thought process because I did, I saw like a kid get picked on, you know, by another race of people that would like, and then he just like constantly just got like picked on all the time. And so he just built this idea up that like that, that's how it is, you know. And like, so he just like- It's not even your fault, it's your brain. That's how your brain works. Your brain is looking, using the eyes to download this information. It doesn't, it's not, it doesn't really- It creates shortcuts. Yeah, it does shortcuts. It's like, your skin color is this, your eyes are this, this tall, you're big. What you're wearing, what you're driving. Yeah, exactly, the way you're dressed, your tattoos are no tattoos. Boom, it goes stuck. Now it's stuck in your brain, that happens a second time, a third time. And a big part of that is what we see in advertising, what we see on television, what we hear in music. And I'm gonna say this right now. If you want a better representation for, because that makes a difference, it does. If you're a kid growing up and every representation of a race is, you know, dangerous or, you know, not smart or, you know, whatever. If every representation you see of that on TV is poor and you don't have a lot of experience outside of that, you start to develop this opinion subconscious or consciously. And if you don't like that, if you're watching TV and you don't like that, you don't like these representations, stop giving them money, stop paying them money. Because I look at some, I look at how some, you know, cultures are represented in America. And look, I hate to say it, but some of them don't have good, you know, role models. Like when you're, if your role model is a fucking dude that's, you know, talking about, is objectifying women is glamorizing, you know, drugs and sex and talking shit. And you don't have any representatives or role models in media that are doing anything else. You can start to self-identify like that or you can start to think that way about other people. Stop giving them fucking money when they do this and start paying other people who maybe are, you know, give a better, you know, representation of what you think. And it's just, you know, again, it's kind of driven by the market. And it definitely, of course, it definitely plays a role. Like, dude, speaking of markets and shifting away from something less polarizing. Thank you. So we talked about a while back. I don't know if you guys remember, we brought, I don't know if it, who brought it up. It might have been me, it might have been Justin or you, Sal, I don't know. But we talked about the, do you guys know the movie past was a big, big hit? The, where you, 999, and then you got unlimited movies to go to. Like any theater? Yeah. Well, no. So I think to each theater has their own little EFT basically. Yeah. So that's a big thing that's happened in the last year. So it was like this great, brilliant. It's so small, 999, dude. And then you can go to unlimited movies. So I guess like it went gangbusters and it did so well, but they're freaking out because they're losing money. This is like that airline thing. Exactly. Exactly like that. So that's what everyone's jumping on board doing it. And yeah, yeah. People who used to go to the movies once a month to go to the movies seven times now because they got fucking, it's no brainer. Yeah. Why wouldn't you? Cause once you go one time, it's already pretty much paid for itself. So then every other time you're going the rest of the month is... Do they cancel it? No, as far as I know, it's still going. I don't know. I don't know how they're... They'll probably raise the rates for that if they keep it. This model seems to be the model that a lot of people are moving towards. This pay monthly model and have access, you know? Like we have like some of our sponsors who's like ButcherBox does this and you know, you had the Dollar Shave Club or whatever, that was I think one of the first ones to do it. It's like this is becoming the model where you pay a small fee every month to have access or to get, you know, a product versus paying like a big fee every time you want to use it. It's kind of interesting. And I don't know if it's... Do you think there's gonna be backlash to it? Or do you think that that's the direction? We've been conditioned to for that because of like credit cards and... Netflix and all that stuff. That's what I'm thinking too. I'm thinking we're kind of... I think the consumers are already sort of conditioned to. What do you think is gonna happen potentially? Well, I don't... This model of, you know, pay a monthly fee and then have access versus like paying each time. It seems to be the model that's growing with a lot of companies where instead of buying, like I said with ButcherBox, like instead of buying meat each time, pay monthly and then they deliver it. Or, you know, the Dollar Shave Club, pay a fee. There's a convenience factor to it but then you start... When you start like going over your numbers and everything at the end of the year and you're like, oh, I need to cut this out and then they make it like super difficult to get out of a lot of these. Yeah, a lot of them do. Yeah, I think the smarter ones will offer. The smarter ones won't. Yeah, they'll offer all a cart too. You know what I'm saying? You'll have both options. You'll have the ability to do a... Or downgrade whatever it was. Like I've seen some people do that with like offerings. Like you have, you know, you can actually scale back a little bit. It's like Dollar Shave Club. Like I don't need them like that frequently so I can like do like every other month or whatever. You know, talk about the things that we... The models that we see growing really fast and I think there'll be a backlash at some point. It seems to me, and I'm sure some... I know some are great and some are bad so I'm not saying... I'm not passing my opinion generally. But this whole like build influence and then create these, you know, influencer groups or mastermind groups. You're gonna go here right now. Everybody's fucking doing it and I predict a backlash coming at some point. I love you dude. Oh man. Everybody's doing it. I thought we were gonna be nice for a while. I know. I was gonna bring that up later. All right bro, it's here though. Let's fucking... Let's tear it up. I mean, I think that... Everybody's doing it, right? Like a bunch of followers. It's a formula. Charge a thousand to $10,000. Come to my group. We teach you how to do whatever, you know? And it's... Everybody's doing it now. And when I start to see that happen, I know that, oh, it's gonna... It's super saturated. Yeah, it's gonna reverse on itself because some are terrible, I'm sure. Well, what we know is this and it all depends on the value you're getting. The people that are going to these things that are paying the five to 10,000 for these mastermind groups. And that's, okay. I think there's some... Some of them are a lot more than that, by the way. Oh yeah, no. I mean, the bigger the name, the person is, the higher they charge, you know? So I know the small influencers that got a few hundred thousand followers are getting away with charging people one to three to $5,000 for their mastermind group. And then your bigger people that have got 500 to a million plus followers are charging upwards to $30,000, $40,000, some more than that even, a year to be a part of these mastermind groups. And now, granted, I think there's some value to some of these guys and girls that are doing this that have built some really big businesses and that, you know, there's some of them. And I'll use someone like Bejo's, for example. And I've never taken his mastermind. I don't know anything really about it. But I could see some value in a guy like this who's been in a space for 20-something years who's built multiple multi-million dollar business. I mean, that guy's got a lot to say. Now, I think he covers a lot of the stuff that you probably would want via his podcast, his Instagram, his Facebook lives. Like, I mean, the guy puts out a ton of free content, but these people, everybody else is following this model. And what we know is that it's- It's like watered down the further out you go. There's an 80-20 rule, no matter what, right? So there's already an 80-20 rule. And what you're finding is some of these ones that are running these kind of cheesy mastermind groups, I wouldn't be surprised if it's more like a 90-10 split. An 80-20, meaning that 80% of these people aren't gonna get shit from it, aren't gonna turn their business into a seven, eight, or a nine-figure business, because the bottom line is they don't have what it takes to even make a six-figure business right now. So you gotta learn to crawl before you run, for damn sure. You gotta learn to crawl before you walk, and you've got these people- It just looks- Yeah, it reminds me a little bit. It's kind of an antiquated sort of an idea, like a system to make money. So it reminds me of when a lot of these people used to host workshops and certifications and seminars that you could only get this exclusive information if you show up here and you have to pay a handsome fee to get it. To where these days, that information is accessible. So accessible. Already. All so accessible. So for you to hoard it and then charge a premium for it, to me, sounds like- That's way old news. Here's why it's growing. Because you either have, things tend to grow in a market either because the consumers demand a lot of it, or because producers catch on to an opportunity and then flood the market. And so when that happens, you see a bubble and then it tends to pop, right? So an example of that would be like curves. Curves exploded. There was a lot of consumer demand, but then you had a lot of fitness, or people who had nothing to do with fitness that didn't know anything about fitness were like, oh shit, there's an easy way to make money. Let's open up a bunch of locations, and then they lost a shit ton of money because all these places closed. What I think that's happening with these masterminds is this. When you go to some of these masterminds, especially some of the early masterminds, what they teach you to do is how to start your own mastermind. That's what's happening. That's what's happening. Oh, you're right. Then you leave and you start your own mastermind, and that's why we're seeing so many of them, because you're going to these to learn how to create and start your own, and it's an easy way, or at least they're selling it, is an easy way to make money because hey, Mr. Influencer, do you think you could fill this room with 30 people who are going to pay you $2,000? I don't know, this might be the Lewis Howes effect. I'm going to call it, dude. I think it's the Lewis Howes effect. It's a blueprint that somebody started. Well, he was one of the original gangsters with this because he started with LinkedIn. He was the first to do it with LinkedIn. He talked about it on the show. Yeah, yeah. He openly discussed it and showed the model, and I think it's brilliant what he did, and now he's now pivoted that into teaching others how to do the same thing, and I know that he's got a pretty full mastermind group, probably 90% of the time, and so you got all these little micro influencers that are now running out and doing the same thing too, and it's like a pyramid scheme. It's like a big pyramid scheme, just different, and it's unfortunate because a lot of the people that are paying the money to get into these things are reaching for that secret thing, like what is it that I don't have? It's like the steroids of building muscle, you know what I'm saying? It's like, oh, if I buy this, if I do this, I'm gonna be fucking ripped. If I do this, I'm gonna be rich. Part of it may be that they just wanna pay for access to this influencer network. Yeah, like okay. Well, this is how these guys justify being okay with paying it, and we've seen this multiple times at these mastermind groups where, if it's a seven figure, eight figure mastermind group, that means everybody in that room is probably making six figures plus, so they've got the money to afford 13, $15,000, $20,000, and they spend that money, and then you've got a group of 30 other men and women that are making good money, and that also have X amount of followers, and can afford, now that in itself is valuable. Like that right there, that's valuable right there, just a network with people, which was very similar to what we created for free, with Mir, when we did, or excuse me, with Dosis, when we did the Dosis event. That was organized as a brand launch for them to where we can introduce a bunch of major actors and NFL players and other influencers that we know and business owners. Everybody in there was shaking and moving, and it was just a way to bring everybody together so they can network and hang out. There was no agenda, there was no handouts, there was no mind pump, anything. In fact, the only thing we did was I did a small little two minute talk thanking everybody for coming and introducing the host and this and that and Dosis, but otherwise, really the real value in those meetings is that ability to network with all these people. Yeah, I just, like I said, it's becoming this formula where, hey, you wanna make a million dollars, this is what you do, become an influencer, and then create a mastermind group, and then teach others how to create mastermind groups. And that is not a sustainable, market-wise, it's not a sustainable formula. No, there's definite bubbles to that. Yeah, I think there's gonna be a little bit of a backlash. You know what it reminds me of? And I'm not comparing the two and saying they're the same in all aspects. And just one aspect, it reminds me of multi-level marketing. That's what you say, MLM. Multi-level marketing at one point 20 or 30 years ago was some people were making money and they're like, hey, this is an easy way to make money and so it just exploded and now it's a dirty word to say multi-level marketing or that kind of thing. It's kind of like, oh, you're from, you do MLM, I don't wanna talk to you. In fact, if someone approaches you with an MLM, they usually will not even say that word to you until much later or if you ask. Like if you ask, is this MLM, they'll be like, well, yeah, yeah, kind of. No, because even in those groups, they're taught how to overcome all the objections and avoid them calling you out on that. Yeah, yeah, terrible, dude. Yeah, no, I think they're gonna. We're gonna see a backlash, feels like it. Again, I think there are some. I don't know any that are shitty. I know of a, I've never been in any of them that I know some people that run them, but. Listen, there's some, there's some minds, there's some minds that we've had the privilege to hang out and meet with, that if I didn't have the access that we have because of the show, that I could see myself considering paying money to have access to their brain for a day for 12 hours where I could ask business type questions. But I'd tell you what, just to fork out that kind of money, it better damn well be somebody who's got a proven track record of some shit that I really wanna learn, that I just can't piece together myself or access or Google online somewhere. That's the thing. Yeah, I think it definitely was important. Maybe five years ago, it's just, I just don't see that being that important to really dive into just one individual versus so much information that's out there that you just have to do the fucking research. I saw firsthand, Doug and I saw the whole process of making money through masterminds because we went, when I created Maps, we wanted to learn, really learn, how to advertise it online. So we would go to these courses and at these courses where they teach you about online marketing, you would have people come up and speak about their product that helps you and then of course they try and sell it and some of them would sell these mastermind groups. And so they're up there selling these masterminds and then they would talk about how you could create your own mastermind and this was in the internet marketing world. Now we're starting to see it bleed over into fitness and so it's grown quite a bit but there was this lady that we hired from one of these groups who everybody lauded and said she was like, oh, she's so great at internet marketing. She's the best and they called her the queen of spam back in when internet spam was first created. She figured it out and all that stuff. So we paid her a lot of money to do online advertising for it and fucking shit. We got shit for it and I think, did we end up getting a refund, Doug, for? We didn't. We still didn't get a refund. Awesome, what's her name? Let's give her a nice little shout out. I put it out of my memory. You forgot her name? Okay, well, hopefully I'll find her name because I'd like to give her a nice shout out because she still didn't give us a refund. Fucking ripped us off, garbage. Barely give us anything that we asked for and I was like, oh shit, this is totally... That's why these people are on the fucking scan. That's why these people are on... Here's the deal too. Like I'm not saying that I wouldn't potentially do some sort of a mastermind group but I told you guys the only way I would even consider it is if I was getting flooded so much that we couldn't hold the amount of people in a space that I have to turn down so many people. So it's like, okay, we're gonna charge just so we can sort of limit the amount of people coming to these things because we just can't fit that many people in this room. I'm not gonna shell out $10,000 to rent a place to give out free information. Like we gotta at least cover our costs here. That's how I would do a mastermind because and I don't want to do one until we've proven a model so well that people are like, I gotta know how the hell you guys did that. How did you do this? How did I pay whatever cost to get into that? Then I can see people considering like responding to the need for it but people are going out there and they're creating that as a way to make money and then it turns into a hustle where they're constantly trying to fill it in. Is that her name? Is that the place? Yes, Laura Bedardly. Oh, you bitch, you ripped us off. You bitch. Direct marketing, you know what's funny? Hey, listen, I gave her an opportunity. We gave her many opportunities to refund us. Totally forgot about it. This conversation brought us. Sal's been waiting for that. I'm gonna wait till we build my power. We got some serious pool. You know what? I'm gonna fucking dump this bitch. I can guarantee you this woman still sells that she can do this and whatever and she's the whatever. What was your name again? Throw salt one more time. Laura Bedardly. Yeah, Laura Bedardly. Shit. Do Bedardly. This clause brought to you by Organify. For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition, Organify fills the gap with laboratory-tested certified organic superfoods to help give your health a performance the added edge. Try Organify totally risk-free for 60 days by going to Organify.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com and use a coupon code MINEPOMP for 20% off at checkout. Our first question is from Enate Morris. How do you gauge the right level of intensity or resistance level when doing trigger sessions? That's a good question. It is. I've been talking about these in a while and I think that... Yeah, I like this one. I see more people overdoing it. Okay, wait, let me back up. If you're somebody who's been working out or training for years, you tend to overdo it. You tend to want to put more work in because it's just, by default, we still have this cemented in our brains that intensity, intensity. The sore factor, like do I feel it? Yes. All that kind of stuff. It's not gonna serve you well with trigger sessions. So I think we first need to explain what a trigger session is just in case someone listening right now doesn't know what that is. So trigger session, that's a term that we coined a while ago and essentially what it is, is on your off days. So this is not your main workout. So your main workout, you definitely wanna go hard. You definitely wanna use intensity. But on the days off and between, you use light weights or bands, which we highly recommend using bands, and I'll explain why in a second, but you use bands to do very light exercise on areas of your body that you want to bring up. And the goal of a trigger session is not to work out super hard, not to have crazy sweat and all that stuff. You just wanna get a little bit of a pump. You wanna get a little bit of a burn in the muscle. You wanna feel the muscle working. And what you're doing with the trigger session is you're maintaining the muscle building signal that you sent the day before with your hard workout. Cause when you work out really hard, you send this muscle building signal and think of it like a meter. Like the meter now is up at 10 with that hard workout. Well, after you're done, the day after, that shit starts to drop, even if you're sore. And so the goal of a trigger session is just to keep it higher on the days off so that your body wants to build muscle. You're just programming that as a priority, that specific movement, that specific skill. Like you wanna pattern that sequence so that way your body just keeps responding like, oh, we need to keep building. We need to keep making time. The more frequent, the better. So a trigger session is maybe eight to 10 minutes long. They're short. And you wanna do them several times a day. So like if yesterday was Monday and I did really heavy workout, let's say I trained my chest and my shoulders really hard. But those are areas that I really wanna bring up. And now today, the day after, my chest and shoulders are sore and I had a good workout. But I wanna maintain a good muscle building signal. Then I'll do some really light trigger sessions for my chest and shoulders. And I'll do it several times a day. And I am not- And it's recuperative. And I am not exaggerating. They sound silly or whatever. Get a little pump three times a day on your off days. They make a huge difference. You'll be able to tell within a week of applying. I picked this question because I remember way back when we first started and I was going through this whole transformation thing that you guys challenged me with. And that was a big sort of awakening thing for me because it was addressing that underlying over intensity that I was applying to all my workouts all the time constantly. And so I was describing what I was doing with the rubber bands even to you guys and realizing right away, like, oh shit, like I still was going over- You were trying to do a workout. I was trying to make it into like a workout workout. And so to really recondition the way I thought about how to use that and think more about recovery and think more about just stimulating the muscles by doing this as opposed to just breaking it down. That's why it's hard. I think that if you're somebody who already kind of works out, more than likely you're gonna probably lean towards overdoing it. So back off. I'm just chasing a pump. And one of the ways to limit yourself from doing too much damage is use the lightest band. We have bands that we sell on our website and it's got an orange or red and a gray band in there. And the orange one's really light and easy. So for trigger sessions, I'm only using the orange one. I mean, so the reps I'm doing are 20 to 30 reps each round. Let's get a pump. Yeah, so I go, I basically just do a little circuit on my body and I'm doing 25 to 30. I'm just going from each muscle group with no rest in between. And I come back around to maybe three times tops. And that's normally enough to get a little minor pump. And I'm doing such high repetitions that I'm not gonna get really sore from it. And then I move on. And the bands do create less damage. Now, I'm not quite sure why. And I think part of it has to do with the fact that... The strength curve, right? With the variable resistance. Yeah, and the negative isn't as heavy, right? It's hardest when it's fully stretched out. But as you lower... It decreases, yeah. And when you apply a lot of resistance on the negative portion of a rep, especially as the muscle lengthens, you get more muscle damage typically. So rubber bands or bands tend to cause less damage. And look, anybody who's ever lifted with chains and bands attached to their weights will tell you, if you go really heavy with chains or you go really heavy with bands, they both have progressive resistance. But bands just don't hammer your body as much. So they're perfect for trigger sessions. Plus, when you're doing a trigger session, it's only an eight minute, 10 minute session. Like you can go to the gym to do that. You know, you wanna do it when you're at the office or at home. And so bands just work better. Now, that being said, I do wanna say that. And I used to talk about this back when I was going to the gym six, seven days a week. And I know we have some really serious lifters that love to go to the gym every day. I loved going to, like I'd still go to the gym on a trigger day, but now what I did on trigger days is I'd walk on the treadmill for 30 minutes or so, do some mobility work for 15 to 20 minutes, do a trigger session. That's a full workout day for me. And it keeps me in my pattern of I go to the gym every day at three o'clock. I go to the gym every day. And so I have this habit of like, that's my time to be working on myself. And then I just discipline myself to lay off the crazy weights. And on the trigger days, that's where more mobility and list type cardio focused. And so that's what I would do. So if you are somebody who likes to go to the gym, you know, you absolutely can do a trigger session at the gym. And you can actually do this. Machines and cables are great. Yeah, machines, cable. I do this with machines, cables, and even lightweight. Like you don't necessarily have to use bands. Bands are just, I think, a- Convenient tool you can use and you don't have to go to the gym to go do this trigger session. You can just do it at your house. Now the inspiration for trigger sessions came from a few different places. One was, you know, I had a friend of mine who had a brother who got out of prison. And his brother was, he was kind of into working out before he went into prison. And then when he came out, he's like, dude, my brother's jacked. Like he's like built all this muscle and he looks kind of crazy. And he went to prison for nine months. And so I'm like, you know, what did he do in there? Like did they like lift weights? And he goes, no, they didn't even have weights. They had access to the yard, which included pull-up bars and, you know, just body weight stuff. And he said, and I said, well, what about his diet? Like did he eat? And he goes, no, the diet was shit. Like they barely gave him enough protein. He couldn't have any supplements. Obviously there's no anabolic steroids in there. And I'm like, well, what did his workouts look like? And I say, oh, he worked out all the time. Literally all, because he had nothing better to do. So three, four times a day he'd do push-ups and squats and pull-ups and, you know, whatever. And then I thought about that. I'm like, well, that is a very different approach from the beat the crap out of yourself, you know, each body part once a week type of deal. And I know that training my full body three days a week is more successful than hitting each body part once a week. So I wonder if I can apply this. And I started thinking of other potential or other examples of this. And then I thought of my family. And I have a lot of blue collar workers in my family. So in my family, it's like plumbers, stone workers. I have some male carriers in my family. And I started thinking about how their bodies were built. And, you know, like the male carriers, for example, you know, I have two uncles and an aunt that are male carriers. None of them work out. Every single one of them has amazing calves, but they've been male carriers for, you know, 20 years, 25 years, 30 years. So every day they're part of their job, they're doing 30 to 50,000 or 100,000 steps because you're walking all over the place. And their calves look incredible. Then I thought about my, you know, I had an uncle and a couple cousins who are mechanics and they're all in their fifties and sixties. Every single, none of them work out. All of them have very muscular forearms. And you start thinking about all the work that they do with their hands. And I thought to myself, I'm like, you know, they're not creating muscle damage. They've been doing this shit for 30 years. Sure, if you're a mechanic the first six months you work with wrenches and shit, you're probably gonna get sore hands and sore forearms. But after you do that shit for years, it's like breathing. And yet these guys literally had forearms that look like forearms you find on amateur bodybuilders. And so I started doing research and I started seeing that you do send muscle building signals independent of muscle damage and recovery, now I've talked about this several times, recovery is not the same thing as adaptation. Recovery's actually separate. So when you're sore and you're recovering, that doesn't mean necessarily you're adapting. And the evidence is clear when you realize you might have done this yourself if you're listening. You work out real hard, get sore, no more soreness, go back to the gym, work out real hard, get sore. And yet you don't improve. And that just goes to show you that you can damage muscle and not get your body to adapt. And so I thought to myself like, well, I wonder if we include triggers, if I did some small little pumping workouts on my days off, how would that work? It took me one week to realize that this shit was huge. Like within one week I did it, strength was up, was up. I felt leaner, I was building more muscle. Doug at the time was my client. I had Doug test it. I had another client of mine, Jim test it. I had some female trainers I know test it. And everybody started testing it. Everybody came back and was like, this is the most significant little thing that I've ever done in my life where I just add this one little thing and I get this crazy response. And the thing is a lot of people who've done maps and a Bollock, which is the one that uses trigger sessions, a lot of people who've done maps and a Bollock, they don't do the trigger session part and they get good results cause they're phasing and it's a good workout. And it's the second or third time they go through when they start to implement the trigger sessions. And I always, I get these messages every day where they're like, oh, you know, I heard you say so many times how effective trigger sessions are. Never, you know, I never did them and or they'll do it once a day. And then once they start implementing it a couple of times a day, it's like, holy shit, it's even more impactful. Dude, you do this yourself. Like if you have a weak body, like let's say your calves are weak. You know what? I tell you what, do like, you know, 20 calf raises three times a day. You still do your hard calf workouts, but on the days in between, just do like, you know, 20, 30 calf raises, you know, two, three times a day. Give yourself two weeks. I swear to God to blow yourself. We'll see visible results. That's how big of a difference it makes. But here's the thing with the intensity. If you push the trigger sessions too hard, now you may be creating more damage, which you should have done already with your hard workouts. And you're gonna take away from your body's ability to adapt. So it's gotta be a low kind of pumping intensity, nothing crazy, nothing hard. It is not a workout, it is named trigger session for a reason. Next question is from Bishop. What are your favorite oblique exercises? People don't train obliques like they used to. Yeah. You know? I think people are fine. This is gonna be cool because everyone's gonna be very different. I knew Justin would do something like that. So that's side bendies, that's my favorite. Can you think of a more important core muscle for performance? Oh man, it stabilizes everything. Rotation, rotating power? I mean, not just lateral movement. I mean, it's basically, it's the center of all of that movement with the hips and the lower back. And just getting everything kind of bracing properly. Like you need those obliques to be strong. When they think of core, they think of the abs and yes, the abs make up the core. But if you're an athlete and if you run, which you probably do for an athlete, running is a rotational movement. It looks like it's straight. So it looks like you're just running straight. Forget turning, like, yes, cutting and all that stuff, definitely rotation. But when you run straight, you'll notice that if I step with my left foot, my right arm goes up. And if I step with my right arm, my right leg, my left arm goes up, this is how you run. If you don't believe me, go outside and try running the opposite way and look how clumsy and slow you are. That involves rotation at your trunk and your ability to transfer that power from the floor throughout your body to propel you. A lot of that, not all of it, but a lot of it rests on your ability to stabilize that rotation or that anti-rotation. That's your obliques, man. So like if you neglect your obliques, you're gonna have some stability issues, for sure. That's why, I mean, watching people when they have these corsets on and you know, it's just nails on a chalkboard to me as far as like what that's doing to your movement. Yeah, now you're like all in on aesthetics, but now you've really fucked your movement. Yeah, and a lot of women are scared of training their obliques as they're afraid of like building out their waist. I don't know about you guys, but when I see a well-developed core on a woman and I see that their obliques are also well-developed, it's very attractive. I don't know, it doesn't look bad to me. Don't forget too, when you do that, it'll actually, their actual waist waist will come in, it will look more defined in him because the obliques are pronounced. Is that illusion, yeah. Yeah, so that, I mean, it's gonna create that illusion. So I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman developing her obliques at all. I think it looks great on her too. I mean, it's funny that I don't think there's any muscles on the body that don't look good. I think people have got these ideas of, oh, I don't wanna have this big bulky this, or like even like a girl saying like, oh, I don't want traps like a guy. It's like, well, you're not gonna build traps like a guy from not having any to building traps like a guy. But at you developing your traps is only going to help shape your entire body. It's pretty funny when we- You balance you out. Yeah, when you neglect certain parts of the body part, it looks, I don't know, when we're more symmetrical, we look like we're in better shape no matter what. You know what the problem, you know when this started happening? So if you look at bodybuilding, because I'm a student of the sport of bodybuilding, or at least that was in the past, if you look at bodybuilders in the 50s, 60s, 70s and early 80s, oblique exercises made the regular rotation. It was a big deal. And part of the reason why they did it was they believed that you could spot reduce and that doing so would shrink your waist. This was the belief. Arnold did oblique exercises all the fucking time. You know, he did lots of these twisting movements at the end of his workouts and he would do hundreds of reps or thousands of reps. Now bodybuilders in the 70s, can you say they had big ass waist? No, they had incredible looking waist. What ended up happening was bodybuilders started taking ridiculous amounts of drugs. Their body weight started going up through the roof. They started taking high doses. Then they started feeding themselves that crazy and they started getting these big guts. Well, they grew everywhere. They grew everywhere and they blamed it on, you know, oh, I can't train my core because it makes my core big. Well, no, it's coming from all the growth hormone and food that you're feeding yourself. And all your insides growing. That's it. Yeah, because all that shit grows from that. I like, so if I'm trying to target them directly and I'm going for a look, one of my favorite moves is just like a side woodchop on a free motion machine. Great exercise. I love, love that exercise for aesthetic, like trying to build aesthetics, right? Then for a more functional thing, I love a circus press, dude. Doing it during a, yeah, doing a, yeah, I mean. Or like a side or like a bent press or a windmill. Oh yeah, that would be, yeah, bent press would be awesome. It's very similar. You're gonna get very similar benefits with the bent press. Bent press is probably even better now that you say that. I mean, it's a circus press with even more rotation. So yeah, no, I think that, I think a bent press or a circus press, anything where you have to stabilize with a unilateral movement like that, even like the lunge with a press on a landmine. Talk about, and then you're incorporating your lower body too. So to Justin's point of something that's more functional and like for an athlete. So if you're an athlete and you wanna develop your obliques, I think there's different things I would do. If you're a stage present athlete or you just wanna have good-looking obliques, there's different things that I would do. And I think all of it would be great to incorporate. I think there's lots of benefits if you do something that's functional and you do something that's directly working on hypertrophy. I think both of them have- Yeah, I think bent press really covers like obliques like in one of the best ways as far as like dealing with load and then yeah, pressing your way out. But also I love targeting specifically obliques when I work on anti-rotation of my hips. So that way, I'm teaching my body how to stabilize. So if I wanna keep directionally going somewhere, I need to be able to train my body to withstand the forces that are pulling me in opposite directions. And so I like doing like a cable rotation with that, but now really focusing especially on the eccentric part of keeping my hips from rotating. Yeah, you know if you- What's doing that with a lunge would be dope. Yes, I do that too. You know what you notice in this regard, if what you notice when you look at ancient sculptures of like gods, like Hercules or sculptures of athletes. All of them have pronounced obliques. Very developed obliques. Now, why did the Greeks or the Romans create the, make these sculptures of gods or of athletes with well-developed obliques? Well, look at any- They needed them. Look at any high functioning lean athlete with their shirt off and their obliques stand out. They always look at grapplers. Look at grapplers who are really lean and what you'll see are well-developed obliques. It's just, and they don't look bad. It's not like you're looking, oh, it's a terror, but you have a big waist. No, it's fucking amazing. This, you know, I'd never trained my core properly for a long, long time. And then at one point was years ago, I started adding resistance and started training them more frequently. And my core just built out to the point now where even if my body fat is 11 or 12%, I look, you can still see the muscle underneath. And it makes me actually look leaner because I've developed them. You know who has an amazing core? Who's also one of the strongest, most stable individuals you ever meet? Craig. Well, Craig. Paul Check. Paul Check is 55 years old and he's got these well-developed abs and obliques. And he's a man that, you know, he was doing step lunges with 275 in his back like a few months ago at the On It Academy with Kyle Kingsbury and those guys, and they couldn't keep up with him. He's a 55 year old man. Now, does he have strong legs? For sure. Does a lot of it come from his core? Better believe it. Like that is a very, my favorite oblique exercise for developing the obliques is a broomstick twist crunch or Roman chair sit-up. So what I'll do is I'll sit, if I can't find a Roman chair, which most gyms don't have anymore, as I'll get a bench and I'll do it where I'm sitting across the bench. I'm not length-wise, I'm kind of across it. And I anchor my feet and I tuck my tailbone and squeeze my abs so that I'm not going back on my hip flexors. I have a broomstick behind my back, which extends my hands. And then I lean back, but as I lean back into my sit-up or whatever, I'm twisting and coming up and twisting and squeezing. As I lean back, I straighten out and I come up and twist with the other side. And I got really, really good oblique development from doing that particular exercise. And I've posted it a couple of times on my Instagram, but that one I got from Arnold. He did a shitload of them at the end of his workouts. And him and Franco and those guys had incredible-looking core muscles. Next question is from Jackson E7. You guys are called Mind Pump, but what do you actually do to exercise your mind or brain? Is that sarcastic or what? Yeah, what do you actually do? I feel like that's sarcastic or you just started listening to it. Like coming at us? Yeah, I feel like you just started, what do we actually do to pump our brain? Like, I don't know, fuck. I think all of us are readers. Everybody listens to podcasts like crazy. You hear the goddamn articles that I'm always talking about every single day. There's a lot of consumption, man. I think, man, between the three of us, the amount of information that we're reading and consuming on a, I mean, it's cool that this is part of why I love, there's a little bit of gratitude, right? This just reminds me of why I appreciate and love what I actually do because I'm such a growth-minded person and it's such an important thing for me. But I'm also a realist and know that life happens and shit happens and you can, it's really easy to fall out of consistency with always growing and always learning and always pushing yourself that way. But one of the dopest things about Mind Pump is that, you know, because we're providing information for others and we're putting out this stuff, it requires that I'm constantly learning. You have to be on point. Yeah, I mean, I have to be constantly learning and digesting new information. So this has now become part of my job, which is rad because it's something that I like to implement into my life. Anyways, I was already a reader, I was already somebody growth-minded, but of course I could allow other things to detour me for a while where now I don't have that option. Like now it's like necessary that, hey, I gotta make sure tomorrow when I meet with the boys, I've got an article to talk about or I have something to contribute to this conversation that I haven't already covered in fucking 770 episodes already. So, I mean. I think that's a huge part of it. The input is a huge part of it, but also it's like learning how to basically like shut it off at certain points so I can be optimal in the way that I can consume. So I get to a point where my mind keeps spinning and spinning and spinning and then I'm not really consuming and regurgitating what I've consumed. Like I have to be efficient in that process and being in this environment is like intensifies that whole process, right? So we're always trying to feed, feed, feed, feed, feed. But we have to also learn the process of like, okay, what am I doing that's optimal right now and how do I get back home to my stasis? I have to make this point because for some reason a long time ago, this misunderstanding or myth was developed that exercise itself, working out, being athletic or whatever, did not improve your ability to think or process or didn't benefit your brain. Here's the deal. When you're moving your body, that involves a lot of your brain. It also creates an environment that is healthy for your brain and the type of intelligence that you gain from activity and movement is a type of kinesthetic intelligence. It is a type of intelligence that allows you to move better in space and function. And by the way, one of the single most effective things and in fact, I don't think there's anything that's more effective than this aside from diet that will prevent your brain from potentially developing disorders like dementia or your lower processing speed or whatever is exercise. Actually, nothing's come close. They've compared brain exercises to physical exercises so they've had people where they'll say, okay, you guys do crossword puzzles and do all this other shit and then you guys over here just go for walks and exercise and then they track them and it reduces risk of Alzheimer's, dementia, improves IQ, better to exercise physically than it does to do the other stuff. So I want to say that and be very clear because the whole myth of the dumb jock is just that it's a total myth. If you work out, if you are, look, if you have kids and you get them to be active, even if they're academic as hell and you just want them to do well in academics, the physical activity will contribute positively to- There's a lot of transfer to their academics. Now that being said, look, the way I learn, just having this conversation the other night, I love to read, I love to watch documentaries, I love to do all that stuff, I love to consume information, but nothing, nothing gets me to learn better and more effectively, more permanently, than conversation, nothing at all. I was the kid in class that would, I never would study, but every once in a while I'd raise my hand and debate the teacher or ask them to go deeper and have a conversation and then I'd be done and I'd remember it and it would be something I'd really learn. So for me personally, the best exercise I do for my mind or my knowledge is I'll read a subject or someone else will bring up a subject and then I'll talk to them and I'll question it and I'll ask questions. What's exactly what we do on here every single day? Every day. Every single thing that was brought up in the last hour was something that one of us read somewhere and we had open dialogue about it and there's something to take away from that, and hopefully that we provided for everybody that's listening. So I mean, I would argue, I mean for sure for me right now, I mean, I've been in a slump big time with my injury and then getting sick this last week, like I'm spending way more time the last year pumping my mind than I have been any of my muscles. I mean, in fact, I remember that was part of my transition of coming off testosterone and then the injury was part of me letting go of the whole image thing was just like, I'm not even gonna worry about that. I'll stay in shape and healthy. I eat well and I move and I do the things I need to do to be a healthy person. So I'm not gonna get so consumed with, oh, because I'm a fitness guy and I'm a fit inspiration guy, I need to be looking a certain way. Nah, fuck that, for who? You know what I'm saying? For everybody else, fuck that. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna put more of my energy now even more so on growing myself personally, learning and pumping my brain. So a lot of my time and consumption has been around that. In fact, we ran in, we had some guests in here just the other day and he was like, hey, Adam, you were showing a lot of your workouts and your rehab before and this and that. And I said, yeah, man, to be honest with you, I just, I haven't been on it. I haven't been consistent with it and I've been super busy and consumed with the business right now. I've been consuming so much information for the business that has nothing to do with anything that you guys see on a regular basis. And I said, I'd love to get back to that because I know there's some value for a lot of our viewers and listeners for me posting some of those things. It's just not a major priority for myself. One of the best things you could do if you're somebody who's listening and you like to learn things and you like to learn them effectively, I think most people learn better through conversation and through discussion. Do this, here's what I love most about social media and Facebook in particular, because it's a platform that allows you to do this, is I'll go on a forum or I'll go on a page that's about something like a veganism or a religion or a political opinion or whatever. And I'll go on there and I'll debate people and I'll try to do it in a way that doesn't get them pissed off so that they stop talking to me. I'll literally do, and I used to do this all the time as I would go on these forums and I would say, hey look, here's my opinion. I think, let's say I go on a veganism one. And by the way, I'm picking on that one. This is not what I do with veganism. I'm just using this example. But let's say I went on a veganism one. This is what I would do. I'd go on the forum and say, hey guys, look, I like eating meat. I think veganism might be a way to develop nutrient deficiencies but I will admit I'm not super informed. Can any of you like have a conversation with me or try to convince me otherwise? Cause I'd love to learn more. That's it. Then they'd go on the comments and they'd say, well, why are you this? And I'd say my thing. And then we'd go back and forth and then halfway through I'd always think to them. I'd be like, look, by the way, I know right now I'm disagreeing with you or we're debating but I do wanna thank you for having this conversation because I'm learning quite a bit and then they'd always be like, oh, okay, that's cool. And we'd go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And I'd learn so much doing it that way. And it would either make me so much stronger in the way I could, and this is like, people have told me I'm good at debating and the only reason why I'm good at debating is they practice. I've overcome a million objections on my position cause I've talked to so many people who are good at having this. But you learn so much this way. This was a major strategy we had when we had it all the time in the world and we were trying to build this thing. You remember we used to go on people's pages and again, this is like, we were talking challenging idea. Yeah, we were talking about the fitness industry the other day and as much as we point out things, like I don't hate on it because it's created opportunity for us. It's really easy for me to scroll through my feed and see bullshit, you know what I'm saying? Bullshit information being put out there. And I can get mad about it. Oh, this is an interview I just had. I just had an interview and this was the discussion that we had and he's like, how do you not get pissed off and frustrated by all the shit that you continue that you still see and I know what you guys stand for and I said, you know, I don't get angry about it. I actually, in fact, they kind of have like a grin on my face when I see it because I just see the opportunity there for me because there's lots of opportunity for me to help others because there's so much bad information. And one of the ways that you can approach that for those that are trying to build their fitness business or any business for that matter, like salcing, seek out opposing views, go to those pages, create dialogue. Don't do it in a way that's like insulting because that will never get you anywhere. You'll not get to learn anything. They'll just tell you to fuck off. Keep in mind that there's lots of people that have nothing better to do than troll around on pages and read people's comments. And there's a lot of people that actually do this, especially on bigger pages because everybody else is curious about other people's lives and go find a page where there's a, that has a lot of people that has an opposing view and start dialogue on there. You'll be surprised how many hundreds of people end up reading that comment. And if you present yourself well and you present your argument really well, you'll be surprised how many people you'll add to that. That was a big strategy to ours when we first started and nobody knew who the fuck mine pump was. We'd go on all these other fitness pages and we'd do it. We wouldn't do it in an insulting way. It would be just like Sal just mentioned right now. It's interesting you brought up the conversation and how you learn so much better through conversation. I didn't even realize that was like so true with me as well. It's just, you know, having that dialogue and being able to like, you know, throw back like questions like, okay, but I don't really understand. I mean, I know that you present it in this light, but what about this scenario? And then if you can understand like multiple angles of the same subject matter, it really just emboldens the whole process. Yep, this is why if you have kids and your kids ask you questions, one of the best things you could do is try to answer them and have a discussion and not do the authoritative, you know, because I told you so type of deal. Like, which is a real easy way to shut your kid up. And I understand the allure of it, especially if you're tired or whatever and you're telling your kid to do something. But my kids will ask me a question and, you know, I'll catch myself doing the whole like, listen, I told you to do it because that's kind of the way I was raised. But usually I try to be aware. And if they ask me a question and say, hey, why, you know, why can't I do, be on electronics more than four hours? Or why do I have to avoid this particular food? Or why are you saying I should, you know, approach and talk to my teachers, whatever. And I'll sit there and have a discussion about these things. I had a discussion with my son a while ago because he has a lot of the same tendencies I do. So whether it's genetic or whether he's observed it, doesn't really matter. He does act a lot, it's very similar to the way I am. And I see a lot of myself in him. And so one thing I went to, we went to one of his teacher, the parent teacher conferences. And, you know, like he gets really good scores, really hard worker. But the thing that I've heard more than once is the teacher will say, well, he likes to discuss and debate. And sometimes he does it in a way that's not, you know, that doesn't come across really well. And so they're basically trying to tell me, like, look, your kid can be a smart ass, right? Yeah. So I, I sat. You're like tough. Inside you're like, yes. Well, part of me, part of me identifies with it, right? So I'm like, oh yeah. So when I got home, I talked to my son. I said, hey, your teacher said this. He goes, well, she was wrong. She was wrong on this one. I don't remember what it was. And he's right, she was wrong. And I said, look, here's the deal. She may be wrong. But if your goal is to learn more or potentially change her mind, approach it in a way to where she'll listen to you. Because if you say it the way you're saying it now by saying you're wrong, she stopped listening to you and you're not successful. And so I had this whole conversation with him about communicating effectively. And I said, look, if your point is to get your point across, you have to deliver it in a way where the person will listen. If your point is just to piss them off and tell them they're wrong, then just keep doing what you're doing. We had this great conversation and he totally changed his approach and he became much more effective. But we had to have a 20 minute conversation about it. Next question is from AndrewASFSE. Sal always talks about the free market, but what flaws do you guys see with it? Is this in response to the bad review that Doug got? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what, it was free market talk. Doug got a bad review, didn't you, Doug, recently? Oh, no. We did. Oh, yeah? Well, I didn't personally, but yeah. I mean, we never get- Damn communists. We never get- What is that now? We're up to like eight, eight one stars or something like that? We're under a couple more than that, but not too many. Are we over 10? Oh, yeah. Oh, really? Dude, we have how many thousands of reviews? Yeah, I know, but still. It's still a good- Yeah, we had a really good number there. It's still pretty good. I mean, we're- Single digits for a long time. It's a couple haters in the mix. People like your political views on it. That's, of course, it's always polarizing. You know, it's really- It's weird because I can very much be on either side of this. That's how I feel. The only reason why I feel like, it's not like I allow you, but I was gonna say, I allow you to even go there is because I think the way you present it is beautiful. Like it's really, it's a very fair way. And even when you're making an argument on your point, you don't make it like this hard stance like you're right or wrong. Every once in a while, we go back and forth on something. But even then, I think you're always open to discussion. And I think that you're no more left than right or right down the middle of anything. Oh my God, I've voted for Republicans. I voted for Democrats. I've hated both sides. Usually hate them both at the same time. Here's, okay, so here's the thing about free markets. Free markets themselves or a free market really is when you talk about the flaws. We just had this discussion in the car the other day. Yeah, we did. When you talk about the flaws of markets, what you're talking about is the flaws of people. Okay, so what free markets allow is they allow the voluntary interaction between individuals and people can pursue their own self-interest. And they're extremely efficient because people, the reason why they're efficient is that whether you lose money or you make money, it's up to the individual. And it allocates resources very, very well. The price system within free markets do that. But without getting too complicated, here's the bottom line. It's if you wanna call it a system, because really it's just people allowed to do what they want and work together. But if you call it a system, so far, it's the best system that we've ever had. Is it perfect? Of course not. People are not perfect. People are gonna make bad decisions in business. People are gonna make products that suck. They're gonna pollute sometimes. But typically, socially, we punish those things. Now how can you say it's the best system that we've ever had? Like what's the argument? So it's very clear. The statistics are very clear. Like what I support, so I support free markets from a moral standpoint in the sense that I think it's immoral to force anybody to do something or to steal from them unless I'm defending myself or defending my property. So if you're not hurting anybody but yourself, I think it's immoral to do anything to you. So there's that argument. But the other side of the argument is this. Statistically speaking, it's very clear. The more markets are free, they are pretty consistently better performing on all metrics that you would wanna measure. Define that though, because some people don't even understand what a free market means. Less government intervention. The more people are allowed to pursue their own interests, the less- And let's say it's self-regulated. And let's give a very good example of something that's highly regulated that you could see if it was a complete free market, how it would be completely different. So the Soviet, I'll give you two examples. Communism from a Soviet Union standpoint was far, far, far, far more regulated than the communism style of China. Now both of China still considered not a free market, but they have free market elements and they're very, compared to the Soviet Union, they're very free market. And you can see the success of one versus the other. The Soviet Union produced tons of waste. Lots of people starved and died, even though they grew enough food to feed everybody. They obviously didn't succeed. What about China allows Hong Kong, which is arguably the freest market in the world. And by the way, Hong Kong- Yeah, but let's look at sectors within the United States that people can relate to. Like, give me a sector in the United States right now that is completely regulated or highly regulated. Education, yeah, education. And what it would potentially look like. So let's go education, because I think this is one of the things that needs to be deregulated, that I think if we had free market within education, it would be insane to see how fast we would grow as a nation, like just intelligence level and our scoring would go up. So explain how education is not a free market and how that would be, plus I think that's one of the more controversial ones that people would argue that we don't think should be. Total free market in education would look like this. There would be zero government programs, zero taxes that went to it. There would be zero laws or rules, aside from the ones that protect you from hurting someone or stealing from someone or something like that. And they would just let it go. So what it would look like would be the internet. Like the internet is a free, the internet's about as free as it gets. Now, there are some regulated components like the carriers and the, where you build the cables that connect people. And people hear free and they think that means free and free market think that things don't cost money. Like, no, it doesn't mean that things don't don't cost money. No, it's just not regulated. So again, if you look at the internet and the rapid advancement of the internet and its access, you can see how effective and efficient markets are. And if you look at education, if you look at any markets heavily regulated, and what you'll typically find is the cost of accessing it will explode far faster than inflation and the accessibility will decline. And education is one of those things. Higher education, the cost of higher education is exploded, public schools are the most segregated segment, one of the most segregated segments of our economy, even though they're supposed to be for everybody. And it's terribly inefficient. In California alone, we're spending maybe between 10 to $12,000 a school year per student. And many of these schools don't have enough money for books and don't have enough money for basic needs for the kids. Teachers have to spend money to get their classrooms outfitted with things that they need, and yet they're getting, if I took that, let me put it this way, if I gave you 10 or $12,000 for a school year and said, here, spend this on a school for your kid, you'd find a superior product. You probably would. Well, an example of you were to strip everything down of an education and think of how you would build up like free market, it would look something like this where let's say in a completely free free market, I would have the ability myself to start up a classroom. And I started off with allowing free, for kids to come and learn. And I teach K through eighth. And their parents KU, whatever. Not even, that's free right now, because I have no credibility yet. Nobody knows who the fuck I am, I don't have an education, but I believe I can teach kids better than anybody else out, let's just say, right? So I start off this school for K through eighth and only 10 people show up, 10 people that know me and trust that I could do well with their kids. And over time, people start finding out that I'm producing these really intelligent kids. And now 10 turns into 20, then 50. Now I have this need and I need more tables and more desks and more things. So now I start charging. Now I start telling people, listen, I'd love to take your kids, but my classroom's filled, I can't do anymore, I can't do any more work. So it's this much per year for your kid to come here. And then I start to build this business and it's based off of what I'm providing. And if I didn't do a good service, then nobody shows up. That's the volunteer part. What I like is the ground up approach. For instance, if we're trying to figure out standards and we're trying to figure out ways to test and see what's valid as far as education and what's gonna help them for success going forward. To have that from the actual teacher and student and how they work through all these issues and figure out what they can implement to better the system versus a collective group of people deciding that for the masses. So it keeps it like within the power of the people in it. You can't possibly have enough information and be smart enough on a minute by minute basis to decide what millions of people- It changes so quickly. What's best for everybody. Now here's the- You just can't do this. Here's the argument. Right now we're all jumping on the free market bandwagon, like the way we're all talking. But I want- People are followers. I want to make it clear that when we were in the car and we were having this discussion, it was me who was debating Sal with the idea that as idealistic as the free market sounds and how awesome it sounds. And we all agree that it would be better that it worked this way. The fear that I have and the argument that I have with the free market concept is that unfortunately, there's a very large part of the population that want to follow and want to be told what to do. And that's just a fact that they don't want to do their own research. Yeah, they don't want to do their own research. They don't, and the argument is that there's so many of those people that a completely free, free market society would collapse. And that is to me the greatest argument against the free market is that one and that one only. You're not going to have a nation of entrepreneurs. You'll have entrepreneurs and then you'll have people who will buy what they sell and who work for companies and do what they tell them. And that's always going to happen. So here's the thing. We talked about the moral argument, but as far as how successful they are, look, it's not hard just look at history. If you take a chart and you list countries based on the freedom of their markets and you chart them all out, you will see pretty consistently and regularly, not always 100%, but on a pretty predictable basis, the more free a country's markets are the faster they progress, the more they lift people out of poverty at a faster rate, the less discrimination you'll see, the more equality of opportunity you will see. It's just the less violence you see. It's just, it's very, very black and white. Now, here's the problem. I don't think you can have, I don't think markets can exist in every avenue of human life. So what I mean by that is if a market can exist, I think it should be more free than less free. But in some situations, I'll give you one right now and here's one where I disagree with or at least I've debated and I'm still not 100% on this, but I have yet to hear anybody change my mind. When I've debated people who are like really free market, like anarcho-capitalist or people who are like super laissez-faire, no government intervention whatsoever, and I've had these debates with them and when we talk about the environment and here's my argument with the environment. In some cases, I can see how a free market will handle environmental concerns, property rights is a good one. If a company pollutes your land and people own that land, you're sued, you're fucked, you're closed because they're damaging your property, I get that. But what do you do with the air? Or what about the ozone layer? Or what about the ocean where you have what's called the tragedy of the commons? It's like this public space nobody really owns and whenever you have that people fuck it up really, really bad because it becomes a race to who can exploit it the fastest because if you don't, your competitor will and nobody owns it anyway, so who cares? So in that case, I can see regulations or having a viable role. What you say that the first thing that comes to mind is like automobile smog and then the regulations that are put on that but then I also think that in a free market society that if we all found out and we had better information about each vehicle and how it pollutes the earth and what's the most green and we see that happening right now with the movement towards electrical cars, I still think free market even works there and that's what we're talking about. You already see people wanting to put their money into the companies that are thinking about their impact environmentally and impact in doing good. Again, I'm just being objective. When you look at the, when you actually look at what's happened throughout history, like gasoline used to be leaded, okay? And there were scientists that were ringing the alarm bell saying, hey look, this is showing up in the oceans, it's showing up in our, people are breathing it in, it's causing people to be more violent and sick, which is true. We need to make all gasoline unleaded and they had to go to court to fight this because the gasoline companies were saying no and consumers liked it because you didn't see the results right away. That's my point with the environment, like if you're destroying the ozone layer, by the time we notice what's happening, that may be 50 years from now of damage. And so where markets can exist, when they're free, they tend to work better, but there aren't, I don't think markets necessarily can exist in every aspect of human life and the environment's the one that I tend to, and the same thing with protecting the country from outside forces or invasion and stuff like that, like the idea of a free market military that's complete free market, that's kind of strange to me and I don't know if that would work. Yeah, I don't see that. Yeah, those are areas that I have debates, but for the most part, look, Hong Kong is a great example. Hong Kong went from third world country to superpower, economic superpower, in like 50 years and their markets were, they, Milton Friedman was part of that movement. I know that whole Chicago School of Economics was part of that movement. Look at Chile. Chile's another great example. Friedman went down to Chile and they basically consulted with him and out of the South American nations, Chile's advanced and advanced at faster rates, lower rates of poverty. And here's the other thing with markets is people will look at a free market and say, oh, look how terrible their conditions are, it's not working. You can't compare free markets that have only been free for 20 years to others that have been free for hundreds of years. You have to compare them to how they were before. So I'll give you an example. People will tell me all the time like, oh, if we don't have all these regulations, you're gonna have all this child labor in America, you're gonna have all this dangerous conditions. It's gonna look like America during the industrial age when, you know, kids were working and it was all kinds of, you know, smog and minors were dying and, you know, all this crazy stuff. And it's like, no, there's something that's worse than the industrial age of America. It's what America was like before the industrial age. Before that, it was even worse. And that's what you have to look at. You have to look at and compare to how they were before and how they're advancing. Don't compare them to other countries that have had the luxuries of having these markets for long periods of time. And it's just, here's the bottom line. Like I'm definitely pro free market, but I'm also pragmatic. And so far when we move in that direction, things get better and it's a statistical fact. So I would say, look, if we go in that direction, it just starts going crazy. Look at all the companies that are examples of that. And I mean, like five of the like top 10 are like all examples of that, right? I mean, when you look at the Ubers, the Airbnb, the VRBOs, the, who else is an example of that that are huge companies right now? Oh, eBay, I mean, Amazon, I mean all these companies. I mean, it just, it's just super, it's super efficient because the price system allows so much information to be communicated something so simple as a price of something. Like, you know how much supply and demand there's, you know, all the, there's all the information of who's producing it. And those producers are being pulled away from other things that they're producing. So that that's included. And so, you know, if something's more expensive than something else, you can make the more efficient decision based on the price. And we don't even think about that. When you try to centrally plan an economy, like good luck, like the Soviet Union used to send out, they tried, they tried figuring this out and they tried, they would send out like surveys. They'd send out surveys to people, hey, what do you want to buy? Which one do you want more? By the time you get all that shit out and collect it all, information's worthless now because it's changed, you know, day by day or whatever. And so you have this incredible inefficiencies. Here's another good example. Like we're talking about, I just talked about the environment, right? How much paper do you guys think zip drives and technology is saved? And that wasn't even, that wasn't even created to save the environment. That was just an efficient way of giving information and storing information. And yet it saved a shit ton of trees, you know, as a result. You look at, if you want to implement something and you do government decree, like here's another good example. If a company invented a way to create energy and store energy and transfer energy that was cheaper and more efficient than oil, do you know how fast the world would switch from oil to that new product? Faster than any government could ever dream of. Immediately, businesses would be like, we're saving 15% of our costs with this form of energy. Let's change a whole fleet. Let's go in this direction. Like that's exactly what would happen. Look at cell phones. Within 10 years, cell phones went from nobody having them to almost everybody having a cell phone. That was all, that was all from. Bums have cell phones. Yeah, that was all from the market. Where are they getting their plan from? But the market reflects society. It reflects us. So sometimes when you look at the market and you see bullshit tabloids or you see why are we producing, like why do we have a liquor store every corner in my neighborhood or why are they making all these sugary, bullshit cereals that are unhealthy? And what people will do is they'll blame the free market and be like, ah, that's because of the market. If we regulated the shit out of this, we wouldn't have all the stuff. No, so you're paying for that shit. That's, it is regulated. It's us, just us. Us wanting that, so and then we want this. That's it. When we change our purchasing habits, man, the market shifts and changes faster than you can fucking, faster than any government, anything could ever do. So look, we all have Instagram pages. All of these pages present different fitness and educational and entertainment type information. You can find my page at Mind Pump Sal. Adam is at Mind Pump Adam and Justin is Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maths Anabolic, Maths Performance, and Maths Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.