 This week's episode is sponsored by The Soul Hub. The Soul Hub is on a mission to empower you to transform your life. We believe that if you are opened up to new ways of thinking, you can create your own reality. The cold water tubs are an easy and inexpensive way for you to experience the power of cold water therapy. Cold water therapy has changed countless lives. They hope to help you take control of your mental and physical health to connect you with who you truly are. You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. The school stuff that I went through was bad, embarrassment, ridicule, bullying. That was bad but I can have that. It's kids, kids are kids, kids can be evil and I can have that. But the home stuff was the stuff that scarred me. I'm glad that I went to the hospital and I saw his last breath and I managed to say, I don't know if he could hear me or anything, he said that obviously he weren't responding or anything and I managed to say thank you. If you want me to be honest, I could have quit a lot earlier than that. I lived in that house. There were a couple of times when I wanted to check out. Suicide though? Yeah. I've never actually told anybody this but I found out at 32 that my dad weren't my dad. Ben maar aan. Today's guest is Dave Caldwell. How are you, Dave? I'm very good mate, thank you. Pleasure to have you on. Pleasure to be on, yeah. Doing some great fighters, world champions. Get a great story as well, brother. Grow up bullied as well. Parents, alcoholics, tough, upbringing, very tough. But to do what you're doing now and succeeding and pushing through us, the kind of stuff that I love, that's where people find their inspiration. I don't even know if a lot of people know your back story. But first of all, how are you? I'm very good. You know what? I'm loving life. Boxing is going well. I'm quite privileged because despite the pandemic, I've managed to get some of my fighters out. I've picked up some titles, been involved in some big fights and looking at what's in the calendar coming up. Got some exciting fights ahead. So I'm in a good position. Family's healthy, enjoying life. So I'm happy. That's the main thing. You're seeing your 46, you look great for 46. Thank you, cheers. It's the moisturiser, man. That's what it is. I went and bought some there as well, some never here I use before I came. I seen you posted Tony Bell, you five years ago when the world title, great guy. Tony's just released her books, we'll plug that straight away. I'll leave the link in the description for Tony Bell. You love them, they're back. How was that feeling and emotion to be posting that? First of all, I can't believe it's five years. I mean, where has that time gone? But what I love about as memories and how as minds work is you see a picture and you go right back to that moment. You go right back to that when, you know, there's a little video, a clip where Bellevue gets McCabo on the ropes and it's like I remember the exact feeling that I had in those seconds and where I just completely lost my shit and it's just the best feeling and you can relive that and special man, special, but five years, that's madness. Time flies, that's a scary thing, let's just try to enjoy the good moments and create those memories. I always go back to the start of my guests, where you grew up and how it all began. Okay, well, I was born in Calcutta in India. My dad was, he was working over there at time, he was over there for a few years. I came over when I was one and I grew up in a place called Ecclesfield in Sheffield. It's on my Sheffield boy and yeah, I just, from junior school it was fine, but then once I got a little bit older, just after junior school, going into comprehensive school, then things started getting a little bit tougher and not as happy days. You're getting buried? Yeah, go to school, back then it's completely different to now. I mean a school that's 1500 kids, big old school for those days especially and literally I think in my year there was one other girl that was an Asian girl and there was a black kid, but he was massive. I remember on the first day he actually had a fight and he was doing flying kicks and everything and he was like, oh he's all right, nobody's in to touch him and I kept my head down. There wasn't a lot going for me at school because obviously I was tiny, I'm still tiny now, things haven't changed. At the time my dad had lost his job so you're on dinner tickets, when you have that little purple ticket and you go, it's not a good look and when everybody else is wearing the cool clothes and you're not, there's different things that they can look at to pick at you and then when you're a minority you get it. So I was getting it from a few different angles and so throughout comprehensive school it was very very tough, it was tough. Did that really affect you in school when you went home, did you ever tell your parents? Yeah, but I was always told just tell teachers, well that doesn't work and my parents didn't really do much about that. Both my mum and dad were all colleagues, my dad lost his job, I think everybody went downhill once my dad lost his job, middle age probably about 40 when he lost his job, he'd been at a company. This is one of the things why I'm so driven in making sure that I'm in control of my own destiny. I remember my dad worked for 25 years for a company and he got made redundant because the people above him couldn't do the job properly and out of no thought of his own, going around the world, he was a drafts engineer at first, he ended up getting another job in paper mills but when he was working with his company for 25 years I wouldn't see him for six months, he got to Argentina for six months. I ended up living in France for six months when I was a kid, when I was in last year of junior school I think it was because he had a contract over there, he did everything for the company and he was good at his job and then at the end of the term in France I think it was, that's when he lost his job and he devastated him and I think that, I wasn't aware but I think that's when he started probably going on to the drink. When they were you aware that they had both heavy drinkers, what age? It's a funny one because you don't actually, at that age, don't get kids at that age then we're a lot younger than what they are now, I mean my 10 year old is so clued up, he understands about everything that's going off but back then kids were kids and so I wasn't really aware of it and I knew that when I would go to Asda and I'd want to, I'd want to, I always remember there's a little S.O. truck that I wanted it was only like this big and it was like £1.99 and I'd ask and I can have this toy and my mum would be like no you'll have to wait until Christmas, see what Father Christmas brings, yeah but then you go to the checkout and I remember there'd be a row in the trolley, there'd be a row of Bell Scotch Whiskey, a row of Teacher Scotch Whiskey and then Gordon's Gin and I knew that's alcohol and I remember being a little bit, he can afford all this drink but I can't afford £1.99 for a toy so that was when I was young but I didn't realise the extent until my mum went back to India and I was, I'll have been 14 then and my mum went back to India and I remember my dad just never got out of bed and at first I thought he was ill and my mum had said before she went make sure you look after your dad, you're kind of like I'll look after each other so that's all you think it is but my dad is just staying in bed all day and I'd go to school, come back, he's still in bed just look after yourself living in a house on your own basically, your dad's in bed all the time and then I remember one day, I don't know what I was doing, I don't know if I was playing with your toy or something, I don't know but it ended up where I see under the bed and under the bed is just bottles and bottles of empty whiskey bottles and that's when I thought oh there's something wrong here and then I remember when my mum got back and she basically found everything, they were in cupboards, there was empty bottles in the cupboards, they had a wardrobes, empty bottles and wardrobes so it just basically been staying in his bedroom drinking and just stashing the empty bottles, didn't even get rid of them but she just blamed me, I'll never forget, she just absolutely tore into me blaming me saying it was my fault, I should have looked after my dad and that's when I realised what drink the problems that drink really causes and that's the reason for behaviors and that's the reason because I didn't know, that like I said at 14 back then I was a kid kid and I'm not like now was your mum and dad feinting a lot, do you know what, my dad was ruled and again this is something that I always looked at my dad going back to when he was working, my dad I always remembered work he was a big man, can't like me and he'd come in from work and he'd come in to the living room and he's you know your dad's always got a certain chair, I've got a certain chair, every's got the chair and he'd come in and he'd just flop into his chair shattered and make that sigh and the minute he'd landed on his back it's it, my mum would be in the kitchen and he'd hear this, Tony come here and he'd lost look at me, here we go and then he'd get up and go into the kitchen just want him to worry about doing this, doing that, make your sandwiches, blah blah, whatever and he'd just think he's not got much of a life, he didn't have a great life but he was ruled by her so whenever my mum kicked off he would never talk back, she was the dominant one and he was definitely under the thumb but not in a comedic jolly sort of way, it wasn't nice sort of way, did you get to blame for a lot of things, yeah I got blame for everything, my mum, so my dad although my dad was an alcoholic he just thinking actually, the first time that he, I remember probably when I was younger, he was working in Argentina, he had a car crash in Argentina and again back then, I don't understand what it is but he got done for drink driving, he crashed when he was drunk but you don't know what that's about, do you know what I mean, back then but he was an alcoholic and but he was a placid alcoholic, he was a nice geezer, do you know what I mean, he was just a nice fella, he just didn't speak much, we didn't have a relationship, we would talk but my mum was an alcoholic that denied she was an alcoholic so she topped up the whiskeys but claimed as though she's not had a drink and then when she was drunk then she was naste, shake her anger out in your, yeah I don't even know if it was anger, I don't know, it's hard to explain what triggers it because it'd be nothing, you know even from being a little kid, you can't do a lot wrong, you know if I was a minute late from being out playing, I'd go out come in, I'd do me paper rounds, then I'd go take the dog for a walk and I'd go and play football with the kids in the park, back then parks were full, not like they are now, the parks were full, there'd be football pitchers in the loads playing on all the football pitchers it would pack and I love football and I'd try a play football or failing that I'd be on my own with a ball and my dog, if I was one minute late I don't remember run used to run back when you realise what time it was, you're running back panicking, one minute late I'd get battered, not a slap, not just like, make sure you're on time tomorrow, battered and that's not, that's nothing really bad, that's nothing really major but that's the kind of thing that it would be, I'd be, I'd be, I'd come in from a from a paper round soaks because it'd been raining, I'd sit next to a fire and because her chair would be behind where I'd be sat on the floor, she'd like literally kick you out of the way, things like that but that, that'd be at any time of the day so that, whether that was drink or just how she was, I don't know, I don't, I'm not sure. How does that affect you getting through your like hurting 17, 18, did that play a massive part of it? I left on at 15, where did you go? I ended up, basically I ended up just bunking up with somebody, a friend and then I ended up at my grand's, my grand was the only person, my grand is my dad's mom, my dad's English, my mom's Indian, my grand is the only person that's ever backed me or been positive towards what I want to in my life, she's the only one that believed in me, so yeah, I left and I went, I stayed at my grand's after a while and my mum just resented me even more so every time I've gone down to kind of like visit my dad, because I love my dad and I wanted to see him, she would throw a cup at me, hit me, do something and so I'd just end up, I don't need, at this point, because you don't live there, you don't need to take that shit, you can take yourself out of that house anytime and that's what I would do, I'd be like, I'd try and stay because I'd want to communicate with my dad, but then I'd be like, I don't need this shit, I was just gone, that's it and just, that's what just kept happening. Like I said, even when I was in the house, there wasn't any real communication with my dad, I wanted to, as a kid you want to touch your dad, you're coming from work and you'd ask him how he's day were, you know, all right, that's it, and you ask him another question and he'd be like a one word answer, just a grunt, that was it, so it's weird because you think, well what you're still trying to talk to him for, if you don't talk, it's like if you would take the dog for a walk and take me football and his idea of a kick about would be kick the ball as hard as you can, so I'd run and fetch it, bring it back, give it him and kick the ball, basically I would like a dog when you throw a stick, so there was no, you know, he wasn't active, he wasn't, there wasn't anything, but he was my dad, so I just wanted that, I wanted something. That's the difficult thing when you love someone so much, no matter how much they treat you or how you hate them, you just kind of want them to change, you just kind of want them to tell you that they're proud, you just want them to tell you that you're okay. That's the funny thing is with me mum, still to this day, there is a part of you that kind of wants to, not show off, but show to your mum that, because my dad died, but there is a part of you that kind of wants to say, oh, I've done this, look, my kids are doing this, but it's not there. Did you ever ask them the questions when you got older, why? My mum was completely denial of everything. My mum was completely denial, she's... Right, her upbringing, how was your mum's upbringing? She never spoke anything ill about her parents or anything. I don't get it, I genuinely don't get it, because I did it, it was, the school stuff that I went through was bad, embarrassment, ridicule, bullying, that was bad, but I can have that. It's kids, kids are kids, kids can be evil and I can have that, but the home stuff was the stuff that scarred me going forward, and I never, it's still, listen, it affects me today. I don't believe that I'm totally over it, because I still as a grown man think I can watch something on tele, and it'll just, and I'll just think, wow, and it just takes you back to how we are, and you know, you hear other people's stories and it takes you and you get emotional about it, so it doesn't ever leave you, but I can't, it's hard, because there isn't that conversation there where if somebody doesn't accept how they've been, then you can't ask question, you can't get answers. I don't understand how my mother trept me, because I'm a dad, so I know how that, how we kids look at you, how we kids want to feel, and I just don't get how any parent can do that, and I don't buy the bullshit when people say, you know, you've just asked me about her upbringing, I don't buy that bullshit, sorry, people can, people can give it as a reason, and you know, you see on news or sort of court reports and stuff, and it comes out, it says, oh yeah, there was abusers as a child, or this and that, that's what they're doing, they thought, no, you know how that feels. If your parent beat the shit out of you, if your parent made you feel as though you're worthless, and you've got no confidence whatsoever, and you don't deserve anything, telling it that you're a mistake, you shouldn't be on this planet, if your parents making you feel like that, when you have a kid, you know how that feels, how can then you follow that on to the kid that you've brought into this world, I don't buy that, I think that should drive you more to make that kid feel special, loved, like as though they can achieve anything in the world, anything that they want to achieve, they can achieve it, you should build them up so much more, because you know how that feels, and that's how I live my life, that's, so although it was shit, and although it was, it was terrifying, I'm not going to lie, I was terrified of my mum, I wouldn't change a thing, because I'm the, I couldn't be a better dad than what I am to my two kids, and I owe all that to what I went through, because I didn't, nobody told me how to be a dad, nobody told me how to be a parent, I didn't have that, so I've learned by what not to do. Because your dad ended up getting cancer as well, and your mum, that you found out your dad got cancer, was it your daughter's birthday, was that being that evil, was it just not fun? She was just, they knew for a couple of months, and I remember we was driving, me and my wife, my daughter, and we were driving to, it took her a day out, because it was her birthday, but I can't remember, a zoo or something, and my mum rang me, and I was like, what, when the phone goes in her mum, it's like, oh what, eh, what's going on here, and she rang me, and she told me that her dad had got cancer, and it just, she knew what date was, she knew my daughter's birthday, and I thought they just found out, I literally thought they just got back, you know, from from hospital and found out, and then in conversation, like, she said, oh we didn't, we didn't want to tell you, you know, we kept it to ourselves, this, this, this, I was like, well, when did you know, a couple months ago, I was like, what the fuck, and that again, that just, it just goes back to when I was a kid, she would always, every single, I've just, because of lockdown, I've just had my first ever Christmas dinner at home, because I've always refused to have Christmas dinner at home, because every single Christmas, my mum would spoil Christmas dinner, every single Christmas, I haven't got a good memory of Christmas there at home, not at all, because she would get a drink, then just start kicking off, kicking off at my dad, kicking off at me, bashing me, it would just ruin Christmas dinner, so always as an adult, something as I left home, and soon as, soon as I got me on place, I've never had Christmas dinner at home, because that's her mentality, if you've got something, your birthday or your Christmas or like, my daughter's birthday, that's why I know if she's done it on purpose, she's not two months, a couple of months, she's chosen my daughter's birthday to ring me and let me know that my dad's got cancer, and it's like, why would you even do that, because it's not, forget about spoiling my day sort of thing, but you're spoiling your granddaughter's day. How's your relationship with your mum and her granddaughter? There isn't really one to be honest, when my mum got cancer, she had breast cancer. How's that feeling for you? Oh mate, do you know what to this day? There's anger, frustration, and sometimes you have us think like, you're too hard done on her as well, even all this shit you go through, but part of us are soft as fuck that you might think, I would like, what goes through your mind then? I cannot believe our reacted, I remember that day when she rang me up and she told me, so my dad's died by now and for a while, and she rings me up, I'm in my bedroom, and so what's your right, my heart sinks whenever my mum rings, because it's just stress, it's just not nice. Ja, en dan, so I remember, I'm looking at my bedroom window, and then, bare mind, I don't like my mum, I don't like my mum, I don't like, because of where she trapped me, I don't like how she tried to, whenever I took my daughter to see her, I tried, because I loel me wife, I tried to make sure they've got a relationship with their grandkids, but whenever I've took him over, she'd always try and ridicule me in front of my kids, I'm like, why have I to just bite your tongue, bite your tongue, and I try, but I mean, there were once when she kicked off and I was like, right, I'm going, and my daughter's young at this point, she might be three, young young, and I'm like, I'm right, come on, we're going, I'm like, and she tried to grab my daughter and stop me from stopping my daughter from leaving elsewhere mate, I'm like, what are you doing, you can't, she's that, she's that kind of person, but when I got this phone call, when she told me, oh my god, I started bawling, I just sobbed, and I mean to a point where I can't speak on phone, both my daughter and my wife came running into het bedje, well, because they were upstairs, and oh what's matter, what's matter, and I just get phoned to my wife, and after, after I was like, how is that, I can't understand why I was so emotional when, as far as I'm concerned, I don't like her, I don't remember life, but yeah, I fell to pieces, like literally, I fell to pieces, and it was the weirdest feeling, I'm still to this day, I'm just reliving it, I just can't, I can't believe my reaction to it. Because if your mum phoned you just now and apologised for everything you've done, you'd probably break down and cry, because that's probably what you've always ever wanted to say, seeing you on the TV, I'm proud of you for training world title, world champion fighters, or you just want that, you never, we always say, we never want it, oh you're doing well, but some party, you just want that person who you love or want just to say, I'm proud of you, that fucking moment, those words, can change your life forever. I've never had that. And that hurts you? Yeah, when did your dad pass? Just years ago now, probably about 10 years now. How did the relationship with your dad end up, when you got cancer? I'd go and visit him in hospital, and yeah, I made a point going, because he beat it first time, and then the second time I knew he weren't going to beat it, because my dad weren't a fighter, my dad was just a, you know, he was just a big soft, big soft lump, love the other fella, really really nice fella, but I just knew that the second time we got it, I knew he weren't going to beat it, smoked 46th day, drinks loads and loads and loads, eats loads and loads, and he was one of them that was just like, yeah, still didn't pack up smoking when he got cancer the first time and beat it, and it was kind of like, when it came the second time I saw it, he won't even fight it, he won't, he won't fight in it, and yeah he was happy to go, and yeah, I'm glad that I went to the hospital and I saw his last breath, and I'm managed to say, I don't know if he could hear me or anything, he said that obviously he weren't responding or anything, and I managed to say thank you, because he brought me over here, I've got a wicked life, I could have been some street kid in India, and he didn't have to, I've never actually told anybody this, but I found out at 32 that my dad weren't my dad, so the fact that he brought me over here at 32, I found out at 32 and it blew me ed, but that's why it was kind of like, my dad's 6 foot 4, but we had to say it was weird, we had the same eyes, got the same nose, and so it kind of like, but the height thing and how he didn't speak, we didn't have any sort of personality traits, I'm the first person in my family to be sportier, so I was like, I wonder, I even asked my gran, my gran even asked my dad, but my gran told me that, my grandma and granddad told me that they found out about me to my gran, it's a great story, my granddad was in the back and my gran had got post, she'd open up this letter, because obviously he's in India, and out drops this photo, and it's a photo of me, and no, it just says meet your grandson, and so my gran was steaming, because my dad had not told her about me, and I'm one year old now at this point, and so she's gone to the bath, my gran dad's in the bath, and she's given him photo, meet your grandson, steaming, and my gran dad just took one look at it, Yorkshire, old Yorkshire man, he's looked at him, ah, good on him, that was it, I thought that was, that was what his response to my grandma was, and my gran, she was like, my gran dad died when I was five, I've got memories of my gran dad taking me playing golf and things like that in the park, and my gran dad took me to Old Trafford when I was a kid, he died when I was five, so he took me to Old Trafford, and that's why I'm a money outterfan, because my gran dad took me to Old Trafford, bought me the bag, bought me a satchel, bought me a scarf, bought me a pencil case, that's what I'm a money outterfan, but yeah, when I found out that my dad weren't my dad, he blew me head, because nobody knew, my gran didn't know, my gran still, she went to a grave thinking that I'm my dad's, and I remember how I reacted, and I went round to see him, because mum's it's a long complicated shit, my mum's got a daughter from a previous marriage, I thought she was my full daughter, I found out when I was 15, when I was 14, when I went for an operation on my nose, and the doctor says to me that I'm with my dad, my doctor says any other siblings, and my dad just spews out this in the doctors at the hospital, my wife's got a daughter from a previous marriage, I'm like what the fuck, that's the first I knew about it, and I was steaming, I was like what, because it's just, you won't believe my family, it's fucked, they broke me over when I was one, but left my sister in India when she was 16, she's from a different dad, same mum, different dad, but it's like why have you left her and just brought me, so me and my sister don't get on, because I've seen her three times in her life, and she's a bit like my mum, where she wants to control you, she did well for herself, marrying a doctor at the hospital in America, and she was like pack up boxing and I'll give you whatever you want, you can set up your own car business, whatever, it's when we were younger, I was like now I want to do it myself, and so we don't really get on, but I found that out at the doctors, and then when she came over on a visit, she said something in the back of the taxi, a bit snidey, a bit something about my parents, about my dad, because she was out obviously, and I get it, she resented out, they came over here, left her over there at boarding school, and brought me over, and I'm not even like my dad's dad, my dad's kid, so I then thought, I've got to ask my dad, so I went round to my mum and dad's house, my mum was upstairs, my dad was in the garden, and I just said to him, can I have a chat, I mean yeah, and he's lent on this, we got us fence, garden fence, he's lent, and he's puffing on his cigarette, big man leaning over the fence, I said someone ask you something here, I said I want truth, I went go on, and are you nervous asking this, you're asking your dad, do you know what I mean, asking your dad, are you with me dad, I mean that's got the most hurtful thing you could ask somebody, and I said to him, are you with me dad, oh my god, it takes this, you know this long dragon, faggy, fucking massive dragon, he's fag, and I just looked at him, and I knew then, I went, yeah, because I was asking a question, but I thought it was me dad, you do, even though you have all these little niggles, but I thought it was me dad, and then when he takes his drag, the shock that just hit me, I was like, you're not here, it blows it out, do you want truth, oh like, fucking hell, I went, yeah, and he went, no, I'm not, I'll just gobsmike it, I will absolutely gobsmike it, and I just said to him then, I said, it was the first thing I said to him, I said, do you know what, I said fair play to you, I said I love you, I said you're with me dad, I said you're always with me dad, I said but, if I'm not yours, I said you've brought me over here, I said you've given me a right life, I said I've got a right life, because I've, you know, I'm a dad, I've got me on place, I've, everything that I've got here, everything that I've got in my life, I wouldn't have had, if I'd have been over there, I wouldn't have, do you know what I mean, so, whenever I see anything on TV, and it's like, it's anything in India, you know, you're not right, you're not Thomas Brothers, they did a program, Max in Mumbai, or something like that, and I just, I'm watching it, I'm seeing all these, I'm thinking, fucking hell, that could have been my life, and I'll just have a little laugh and a joke with me daughter, and me son, I'll say that, could have been me that, he's your cousins, could have been, and I'll laugh about it, because I can, because my dad brought me over here, and I've had a right life. I think that's what shows your mentality, me, is you've used that as fuel to get you on, now you've travelled the world, you've trained some of the best fighters on the planet, you've had a phenomenal career, you're still training world-class fighters, you've fueled that, people, that could have made people, you're becoming a beautiful father, an alcoholic, a John K, whatever. But that's what I'm saying, is I don't understand how people can do that, I get the alcohol stuff, I get that, but again, because I've seen what it's done, I don't drink, like I'll rarely, Bill Ewing's world title, I got smashed, right, rarely, rarely, rarely, I'll have a drink, like literally once, I ain't had a drink for about fucking hell, four or five years, but about four years, but I don't need it, but I know what you drink though, do you get old thoughts of your mum and dad popping in your head? I just know what it can do, so I'm very wary about it, some people can control it, some people can't, I've got a bit of an addictive self-personality, so when I was younger, when I was being paper rounds, I was a bit addicted to chocolate, it sounds silly, but I would literally spend like a fiver on chocolate and be walking round eating chocolate, Twix's, Mars, Maltese's, constantly, and I had that Asian sort of skinny fat body, do you know what I mean? As a rule, that's a kind of like fit. But that would have been your comfort, that would have just been your comfort, scared to go home, so you just had your little bit of chocolate beforehand, just didn't feel good about yourself. Yeah, every time you're walking, every time you're turning to walking to the house, your heart sinks, I remember every time stairs went, I'd shit myself, if I'm upstairs in bed, every time the stairs, the stairs creaking and your mum coming upstairs, you shit yourself thinking what have I done, because you don't even know when next beating is. Yeah, so why did you get the operation on your nose at 15? I had a bit of an accident where I got my nose, I got my head pushed into a car wheel, but yeah. You know one of those things? Yes, one of those things. What is, did you start getting into boxing then? When I left home 15, I wanted to box at 10. Was that to defend yourself or was it to get a wave? Stupidest, stupidest reason, karate kid. Karate kid, learn how to do karate to get the bullies, right? So I thought in my head, I'm going to start boxing, I'm going to be able to defend myself and I'm going to go after them one by one and beat them all up. That was my attitude, that's why I started boxing. But I wanted to start boxing when I was 10, my mum wouldn't let me. So then towards the end, when I was there, I started, I convinced a lot, it's just keep fit, just to learn how to defend myself, let me go. And she let me go for a while, I was only there for, I was only still in the house for a few months and she let me go. But I got hooked on it and I said, I'll never fight, it's just to keep. And then when I turned around, I said, I want a box, then I'll elbow loose. But then when I left home at 15, I went full time with my training and trained properly and that was it. Where was your training back then at 15? Loved it, I'm one of these that, I'm a shit at something. I'll work at it and I'll work at it, I'll work at it. That's my mentality that people can take the pace and whatever, but I've got a work ethic and I always have done, because I want to, not as much, I want to prove people wrong. I want to prove me right, I want to prove that I can do it, I'm a bit stubborn. So how was that being bullied, abused mentally, physically, to be then going to your first ever fight, were you terrified? Terrified, me. You think that's right, this is my actual, this is why, this is why, I didn't do fuck all as a boxer, because in the gym I was pretty good. If you ask anybody to train with me, I was good. People come in to come and see Naz or Ryan and they see me on a bag and they're like, who's that? I'm like, it's all right, it's all right, Dave. Because on fight night, I remember, I'd be, I lost my first amateur fights, right? You're putting gloves on and I was just thinking, fucking hell, what are you doing? I'll be walking to ring thinking, Dave, you get smashed to bits at school. What the fuck are you doing? You're going to get hammered. I'd walk to ring thinking, I'm going to get hammered, I'm going to get hammered. You can't win a fucking fight doing that. You can't. And that's how my mentality was. That's how, I remember, you lose a fight, go on to the next one. You lose a fight, go on to the next one. And it got to a point where I just go to, before I gloved up, I just go to the toilet cubicle, I'm not religious, but I was in that toilet cubicle, because I'd just sit down, I just go, please God, let me just win this fight. I just want to know what it feels like to win a fight. Just let me win a fight. That's how it'd be. Fucking hell, it's embarrassing. It really is embarrassing, but I'd be in the gym the next day. Get beat, I'm in the gym next day. All right, let's go again, let's go again. That's always been my attitude. It's always been my attitude. People lose one feet and never go back. You lost your first day at amateur. What was it like winning your first feet? Fucking brilliant. Oh my God, do you know what? It was local. It was at Sheffield Lane Top, it was our local show. And you'd get, very man, they were kids then, they were younger kids then. There was Naz, there was Johnny, there was, everybody was there, all the soul walks of the gym, the big names of the gym were there. And then I remember I smashed the kid. I remember I dropped him. I was like, what the fuck are you doing down there? Kid from Bradford police. And I stopped him a minute and half, en the feeling coming back to the corner, it was the amateur coach. Obviously you trained by Ingles, but they had different amateur coaches. And Tony Price did all my corners and amateurs. And Tony was one of the boxes Chris Price's dad, lovely fella. Like all amateur coaches, most amateur coaches are. The face that he had, it must have reflected mine, because he was so happy for me. It was brilliant, it was a buzz. What a feeling that was, it was brilliant. How much do you think that changed your leaf for never quit, never given up? That's for anybody watching or listening that. You could have quit after your first defeat, third defeat, 50 feet, fucking 80 feet. You wouldn't be sitting here where you are sitting just now. If you want me to be honest, I could have quit a lot earlier than that. I am living in that house. There were a couple of times when I wanted to check out. Suicide though. Yeah. I remember I used to sit on the toilet. And I would have a knife on me wrist there. And I would sit on the toilet. I would just rub it like this. I would just rub it like this. And you see the lines, you see the marks. I would just rub it. And I would want to press it. But half bottled it. Half thought what if, what if you get through this. Did it a few times. I remember once. Do you remember junior aspirin? No, what's that? Right. I don't know if you still do them now. They're white powder. No, it's a little tablet, tiny tablets, a little tablet, it's a little aspirin. But for kids. Well, we used to get ask-its. Right. So, I remember once, I took some junior aspirin. And then when I've took some, like an anvil, when I've took some, I've shit myself. I've gone downstairs. And my dad sat in his chair. And I've sat outside of him there. And I've just said to him, like I said. So, what happens if you take too many junior aspirins? And he said, no, I don't know. I went, it's not a good thing. Why? I went, no, I said, what happens? I went, I probably get a really bad stomach ache. This is not very strong. I get a really bad stomach ache. Okay. And I shit myself. I thought, fucking hell, this is going to hurt. So, I fucking went upstairs and made myself sick. But I did, not the tablets, but I did, I put a knife into my wrist quite a few times. It was just too hard. It was just, it was, yeah, it was just shit. You get a school and people just want to take piss out, yeah? Ridicul, you're for what you are. You get a school with shoes, wheels in, with tongs, hanging out. Fucking trousers, half mast. Wearing the worst clothes, brown trousers, brown shirt, shit like that. I'm getting really cool for that. You, I remember once, like a kid that you think is your mate. Is your friend. And because the other bullies are telling him to, to it, yeah? So you may start punching your face when you're walking in between science blocks to go to the next lesson. It's like, but then to go home and not have a safe haven and then to have it worse at home. Like I said, I can handle the school shit. You can handle that. That's, that's nothing. But yeah, I was just terrified of my mum. Just, I'd have to scrub the floors from attic with bowl of water, scrubbing brush, scrub it, scrub it in a circle motion, all the way down the stairs, into the bathrooms, bedrooms, down the next set of stairs, kitchen, living room, then over up. And then you'd have to, I don't have trinkets in me house and all these fucking bits and bats. I want, because the house was full of it and I had to polish them all the time. I weren't allowed to watch kids TV. If she caught me watching kids TV, get battered. If it weren't done to her satisfaction, get battered. I think it was just a shit life. You think, is this it? Is this what my life is? But I'm always a what if. I will always a what if. I was always what if. When I grow up, I have my own family. And people know I am. Don't know? That was the two things that kept me going. I swear to God, that was the two things that kept me going. And I've got a wicked, amazing family. And people know I am. Now I'm not bothered about the people, that's when I was a kid. But I just laughed to myself because whether people hate me or like me, know you are. And you don't understand that. As a kid that when nobody wants to, nobody wants to put the name to, I remember the girls would be stood talking to you. And as soon as cool kids come, they'd fuck off. Because they didn't want to see it. People didn't want to be seen talking to you. Or the cool kids didn't want to be seen talking to you. And that's what I'm saying. That's where the people knowing who you are bit comes in. But the family having your own family. And I remember, there was the Christmas before I met my wife. I spent it on my own. I had a Christmas Eve, a drill curtains, went upstairs. Came downstairs, Christmas day. I had a good fella's pepperoni deep pan pizza. Nine inch, not the massive ones. I had that for my Christmas dinner. I remember saying to myself, if my life don't get better by my birthday, then I'm doing something. I'm fucking off. I'm leaving country. I'm going somewhere. I'm going to start again somewhere. And I had my first date with my wife two days before my birthday. Do you have life off? How old are you? I'll have been 29, it'll have been 29 I was. How was that for you to get some love, attention, something to believe in you at 29 for the first time problem in your life? I had girlfriends and stuff like that. But nobody I could just be me were you. From a minute that we had our first date, I could just be me were you. Does she know everything from your past? Ja, ja, she does. She knows everything. Ja, she's her and my kids are all people I can just be me were. Just me. And that's it. I don't have to worry about anything what people are going to say. Nothing can just be me. And that's what it's about. And that's why I genuinely, genuinely couldn't give a fuck what people think of me. Because the only thing that kept me going when I was a kid was what if when I grow up I have a nice family, people know I am. Not whether people know who I am now. But I've got my family. I've got what I wanted. I've got that. I've got what kept me alive. I've got what kept me going. I left home because I thought either I was going to kill my mama, we weren't going to kill me. I remember the day that I left home. She beat the shit out of me. I was on my face. She was quite a big woman. I'm small as well so don't fucking help. But she had her knees in between me shoulders. She was sat on me. And she was punching me back her head. And I remember screaming and I remember when it was over I got up. So the living rooms here, the kitchens here, the stairs, so the space where I bought my stairs in between the two rooms was where it happened. And I remember I get up, I walk straight to the kitchen. And our kitchen drawer, there's a kitchen window on the sink there. And the kitchen drawer, I put my hand on the kitchen drawer. I opened the kitchen drawer. I put my hand on the biggest knife that was in there. And I remember it was a sunny day and I caught a reflection of myself when I got my hand on the knife. I remember just looking at myself and I just said, don't, don't. And that was the day that I decided I'm leaving. And I left the next day. So when everything started changing and starting going to boxing. So when you won your first fight then after nine attempts, how was that feeling for you? Just brilliant. Did you think about your mum and dad at any of those stages? I can't remember. I'll be honest with you, I can't remember. Do you know what it was? It was, Brendan and Engel were proud of me, Brendan and Engel. It was proud of me. He was a massive, massive influence of my time growing up. He was, Johnny Nelson was, Johnny was a big influence. Because I saw myself as another Johnny, because he lost fights early on. And he was really cool early on and things like that. So I kind of saw myself as that. I used to follow Johnny in the gym. Like dips, pull ups, press ups. That's why to this day I'm still, because as I've seen him get older, he's always kept in shape. He's been my motivation. I look at people like that. And so I've always kept myself in shape because of that reason. But yeah, the gym, the boxing gym is my family. Plinsnazim in that gym as well? Yeah, it was, yeah. So how was that being surrounded by those? Winners, world champions, Plinsnazim. Probably the best on the planet at that time. Entertainment factor, the skill factor, the power. Everything kid from, where was the prince from? It was from Yemen. From here? Yeah, from Yemen. And then Winkabank just 200 yards away from the gym. For what he done in America, he tore that up. Man, I always remember from the boxing days, my dad used to watch boxing. It was Nigel Ben, U-Bank, Plinsnazim, Collins. That's what I know was proper fights was, just blood everywhere. It's not changed now, but that's how I remember boxing. So how was it for you then, young kid? Unbelievable. Well, we seem you are losing faith. Did they know you are losing faith? Yeah, yeah, but they were so supportive. That gym was brilliant. To this day now, there's people like Clifton Mitchell who was still involved in boxing. He's a good trainer, but he owns the security company that do all the TV shows and things like that. He was a heavyweight down there. There was, we had loads. Nas was great. He was dead supportive. He used to let me drive his cars. It gives you that carrot and shows you, listen, it can be done. That's what you can get. But I was always more... No belief in yourself? No, I was always more like, I want to be another John Ellison. I want to manage, do you know what I mean? Hey, listen, it didn't happen for me. It doesn't happen for anybody, but it changed the pattern of my life. Boxing changed my life. It started giving me some sort of value. It started giving me some sort of self-worth. What title did you want in boxing? I want a central area title. How was that feeling? It was great. It was good because I went up to, it was in Scotland. No, it was in Blackpool against the Scottish kid. Louis Beach. En I went up and I beat him in his own show. It was great. Would you have 19 fights? Something like that, yeah. But I got to number 16 in Britain. I boxed some good fighters, I boxed some world champions. I never got looked after or promoted. I just boxed people and I boxed people above me on weight. But I just never had the confidence. So how do you make that transition from being a boxer, put it at the average to then becoming a world-class trainer? How does that work? Listen, one thing you can't do is you can't borrow it. You can't steal it. You can't pay for it. Experience. You have to go through shit. And if you go through shit, it adds to you. And it builds you and it adds to your knowledge. And you gather that knowledge. And then if you can then put it in to practice and put it in to benefit you, then you can succeed at whatever you're doing. And I've been through a lot. I can empathize with people. I can see the doubts in the fighters. I know how to unlock them doubts. And I've been around some good fighters, some great fighters. I've been around great trainers. I remember when I was at Atlantic City. I got on really well with Brera's management. I was at Atlantic City when Nazbox, where McCulloch, Brera was boxing on the undercard. I think it was. And I got on really well with the management, the Maldonados, and they allowed me to train on the back while Brera's on the pads and he's been training on. Like just soaking it up, soaking it up. And I just studied boxing. I always studied boxing. And I started off as a house second Frank Lawrence shows, holding the spit bucket, fucking opening up on the spot. People like it's tech piss when people are trying to ridicule your bucket mind. Yeah man, that's how I started. But I'd listen. I'd just fucking sit there watching, listening to all these top coaches working with these top fighters. I was doing, I did cuts for Billy Nelson. I've worked alongside Adam Booth. Obviously being around Brendan for years. I've been lucky. And then I started off with Journeyman. And when you're working with Journeyman and you're driving up to Scotland, you get back at four, five, five o'clock in the morning for 80 quid. And you're navigating your journeyman against some big shot prospect that's trying to blow his head off and you can navigate him through those situations. That's part of what you need to do in fights because when you're winning fights, there's going to be points where you start losing fights and can you keep them safe? Can you navigate those rough moments? Can you turn it back round? So, I've done a lot. As a boxer itself, I might not have the best record, but I boxed four, six, eight, 10, 12 rounds. I boxed 12 rounds for a title in a foreign country, main event, national anthems, fucking small tunnel walking through that shit, packed out 6,000 basketball arena, bull ring arena. I've had all sort of different experiences. I've boxed at MEN arena. I've boxed in different situations. I've had different situations happen to me in a fight. So I can relate to a lot. The only thing that I haven't had really is that I never got caught in a fight. So when a fighter gets caught, I don't actually know what that thought process is. It's not necessarily because you've not had a great boxing career. It means you're going to be a bad coach. Look at some of the best managers in the world have been not as great footballers, but the management is two totally different jobs. How did you feel going through the ranks in never quite a natural mentality of never quit and keep going to then be on the biggest stages, sold out stadiums? That's where your gold is. Now, for me, your gold is the pain and torment you went through the first 15 years of your life, the beatings, the abuse, the racism, to never quit and that's where you can connect. So everything to do with connection with no matter if it's a fucking boxer or somebody sitting in an office, is to find that spark, because when you're feeling low for all your life, try to commit suicide, all the bullshit, if you can see it, you'll notice when people are down. Why? Because you were down for so long. So that's where you can change the mentality of a fighter to get them that belief, to get them that different series of things, differently to get them, okay, you can't win. How did you at the relationship with you and Big Tony Bill use that? He came down to spar with one of my fighters at the time at my old gym and he came down and it was the first time I'd seen him in the flesh. I just thought, fucking hell, he's exciting. He's wanting to fucking kill you. How old was he then? It was just before he turned pro, I can't remember how old he would have been. So you've been with him right from the start? No, no, no, I've been friends with him since he started, but I started training him after he got beat by Adonis Stevenson. But he sparred and then he got out and I said, why aren't you turning pro? I said, you're a TV fighter. He said, I've tried speaking to, no, he says, I'm signing with somebody. He told me that we were signing with him at the time I was working with Frank Warren. I said, well, why don't you speak with Frank? And he was, well, he says, I've tried. He says, I've cancelled three meetings. I mean, this is, I was like, just give me a minute. I'll still get your meeting. So I rang them and I spoke to Dean Powell. I said, mate, you've got, it's just been in my gym. I said, I'm tiny now. He's a TV fighter. I said, you need this kid. So he arranged an interview straight away, a meeting straight away. Tony asked me to go with him. So I went down with Tony and his dad. And he signed pro, signed his first contract with Warren. And then I'd just go and watch his fights and stuff like that and just support him. And then I ended up promoting one of his fights when I was a promoter. It was a fight against Danny McIntosh. The fucker bombed. He was telling me all along, this is Belle Euphoria. He was telling me all along, I'll pack it out. We'll pack it out, Rina. This is, okay. Won the perspid. Okay, let's go. I picked phone up to Eddie and I said, listen, I said, won perspids for Belle Euphoria. He fancied doing it with me. He was like, yeah, all right, yeah, we'll go 50-50. All right, sound fucking out. It sold about 1800 tickets for Ecorina. Bomb big time. Lost a packet. But it paid that back in the future. How is that going to keep working with our boxer as well when they're kind digging through the roller coaster of winning and losing to the end? Did you see that he was world champion? Did you always believe in him? That was our stages. I started after he got beat by, he asked me to go with him to Canada for you know, on a Stevenson fight. And again, I wasn't training with that, but I went with him. And I saw the devastation when he got beat. But I saw, do you know what I saw? When he weighed in and I said this to him, I have said this to him, at light everywhere, when he saw me at the weigh in and he gave me a nuk and I put my arms around him and it was, it reminds me of me dad when he had cancer and he'd lost all that weight and it was just bones. He was a rendus when he made that weight. It was, it was shocking. Now, when he turned pro, I actually said to Belle you, you need to box a cruiserweight. He was like, no, no, I'm doing, I'm doing light everywhere. I'm like, okay. So he did light everywhere and he boxed it light everywhere. But then after the, the fight when he got beat, I remember coming back, the devastation and how low he was, it was awful. It was, it was such an odd journey back that was. But then a few months later, he rang me up and he says, this is, can you come up and see me? So when I talked to you, was that all right? Was I getting like that, we're just mates. So I went up and sat in his kitchen and he asked me to start coaching him and I'm working with him. How was that for you? Well, I'd, I... Are you excited or scared? Well, I'd left, I'd won British and European titles with Ryan Rhodes, British titles with Kelbrook. But then because I wasn't seeing enough of my kids, I was finishing the gym up, I stayed every night. And then at that point, my little boy was a baby. So I wasn't seeing him. My dog was about six, maybe seven. And I was seeing her for like an hour, an hour. I was like, so I walked away from coaching fighters. So at that point, I wasn't coaching. I was just promoting and managing. And I was like, do I want to get back into it? I thought, well, there's just, there's just him and he's asking for me help. So all right, we'll do it then. And to be honest, it obviously is a big person, isn't it? But when he walked through the doors, when he comes to my gym, he'd do everything that is asked and I'd never had any shit, nothing. And it was a pleasure to work with, it really was. It was a weird sort of relationship because it's too old to be my son. So it weren't that. But it was more like a brother sort of relationship. I would look after him in the gym, but he would bring me food because he knows that I'm here and I won't have time to eat and things like that. So he would bring me, because he'd come loaded with his meals for the week, with his food prep. He'd always bring extra, so I've got some. So he'd bang it in a microwave when he's eating a weedie after training, so he'd make your nose out of eating. So he looked after me as well. How was it when he wondered what would take you at Goddison? The best feeling ever. So I am very driven. I am very stubborn and I don't care if you think I'm shit or what. I will keep doing until I succeed at what I want to do. And as a coach, I won British Commonwealth European titles, but I wanted to win that world title. And then when he won that world title, that was. And because his family, his kids, his missus, his dad, I love them all. They're all family, you know. And so you know what it means to the fighters. You know, when he wins that and McCaboo gets sleep, oh my God, he's the best feeling ever. And that night after, he's just the crowd at Goddison. It was unbelievable. They were just amazing. It was, I remember, because my wife was in sat with some of his family in the directors box. And I remember I've gone out of the ring and I'm making way through the crowd. And I'm climbing up the stands to get into the directors box to get to my wife. And I just bowled my eyes out. I've done it, you know, the best feeling ever. Best feeling ever. See when you're on that high, how much do you think about the past that you went through the kind of old fucking told you? Or how's that motion? No, it's not about told you. It's not about told you. It's yourself. It's your self worth. It's yours. It's kind of justifying. It's kind of justifying everything to yourself. I don't get it like I said. That you are good enough. Listen, the way that I look at it, I say this to my fighters. Floyd Mayweather is one of the greatest fighters I've ever lived. Muhammad Ali is one of the greatest fighters I've ever lived. These two guys, right at the pinnacle, but you still get people on social media saying, overrated. It weren't all that. He did this, it weren't that, it weren't this. So if people like that aren't going to satisfy everybody's opinions of how good you are, what chance have we got? So why even bother? What counts is what you think yourself? What counts is how do you value yourself? Do you know the foot? When I became, I say this to my kids, I say this to my friends, I say this to my fighters, I believe the most important thing that you can do is to learn how to become comfortable in your own skin. When you become comfortable in your own skin, your bulletproof, literally what people want to say to you makes no difference. That, for me, was the marquee. And when we won that fight, for me, I'd accomplished everything that I wanted to do as a trainer. I'm now comfortable. I don't, whether somebody, you can't take away my memories, please God, that stays. That's one thing that terrifies me. But my memories will always counteract what somebody wants to say. And I've achieved everything I wanted to achieve. How do people's opinions change on you then for being the trainer and then for when the world title, that you start getting more respect? Does more jealousy come with that? It's both, mate. It's both, you know? Because I seen you arguing with Chris Eubank. He was kind of picking on you because you had a boxing record. Did you feel a part of you was getting bullied there? Or did you feel as if you wanted to prove? Not bullied, but it's just somebody's opinion that doesn't hold any value, really. And it's like I said, he was digging me out, but I weren't even, it was Tom DeRan. Yeah, he wasn't even your trainer. I wasn't even his trainer. I was his manager. Number one, you don't make any sense with that. But number two, there were enough examples in sport in life that suggest that just because you weren't a great footballer, bonkster, tennis coach, whatever, doesn't mean that you can't succeed in the next chapter of life. What have you used? What experience have you used from your previous job, from your previous life, your experiences? How have you used them? Have you just left it and been bitter about it? Or have you used it and used the failures to succeed? Because it's like I try and say to my son who plays football, we all talk about Ronaldo's free kicks. We all talk about the great goals that these great strikers play, all these tricks that Neymar pulls off or Maradona. But then how many went wrong? But you don't talk about them, but you have to go through them to get to the bits that are success. And it's like that in life. It's very rare that any of these, so I listen to a lot of podcasts of, it's not just boxing, successful people, just people that are successful in whatever walk of life that they do, that's why I'm interested. I want to listen to people like that that's successful, because I always hear the common thing is that they failed. I always hear the common thing is that they work hard, they're willing to work harder than anybody else. I always hear that common thing where they didn't give up. And so at the end of the day, people are always going to pull you down, whether you're winning world title fights, whether you're the best fight in the world, whether you've got loads of winners as a fighter, they're going to pull you down. So it doesn't matter, it's your self-worth and it's how you feel in your own skin that matters. So after the world title fight, and then the David Hayfates, how was they to David Hayfates to then becoming global fights, basically massive fights. All right, David, I think he's a great fighter. I did think he would have been favourite getting into that fight, but how was your tactic going into that fight? Well, I'd known, obviously I've worked with David at Haymaker for a few years and... Is that strange to what with a fighter and then what with another fighter? Do you feel like a bit of a Judas kind of thing? No, it was weird, but then... Does that give Bill you an advantage because you'll know his tricks? Yeah, I'd seen a lot of sparring, I'd kind of known what his mindset was, but when he was at the first press conference, when he just completely started laying in something, I was like, what the fuck? Where's that come from? I was just saying, can I just train on that since we're all right? And he just started tearing his strips off for me. I was like, wow, okay, all right, okay. But it works out so good because he, that fight and how Hay was, he turned it into something massive. Everybody was stopping me on the streets, everybody was slaggin' off Rotherham, he was slaggin' off me. It was like, great, okay, fine. It doesn't help if you see a lot of people. Yeah, it was brilliant. And then the press conference when he was at Liverpool was just comedy gold. It was just, he lost his head completely. Was that when he had the hair in that? Yeah, I think there was a clip where he just looked at somebody in the crowd your mum and was like, fuck it out. But it was just, it was brilliant because it got everybody talking. He's a great salesman. Because the second fight was on the boat in Miami and shit went here, kind of. No, it was the first fight. Was that the first fight? It was the first fight because he bought, bought, listen. He wasn't trained on a boat in Miami. He hired the fucking boat for the photo shoot and for the tech sky stuff. He was trained at the Fifth Street Gym in Miami and they had that boat for a day, for half a day I think they hired it for. So again, it was his mind games and things like that. It was very good. Look at how he was with Klitschko. You know, with the t-shirts and things like that. He's clever and he's a great salesman. He's riffless and old. He's very, even when they press conferences, I think they're throwing cops and punches. He's a nasty man. Yeah, he doesn't give a fuck. No, he's got that edge to him. And the thing is, I mean, now he's, listen, he's grown up a lot now. And I like him now. He seems to be more of a chill sort of person. How was that, though, when the achilles went? How do you think, even though you've got a relationship with him, you liked him, and then you see him, you've got to fucking... Do you know what? Do you know what? Is that hard for you? The worst thing that could happen for Tony was that his achilles went because Tony was boxing towards us at that point. And then he just went caveman style and it was the old red missbelly and it was terrible for those last six rounds. But I remember when the fight was over, I remember, because I got so much respect for him for carrying on and for trying and trying and trying. I like that. I like that. And I remember looking at him, despite all his shit that he was giving me. I was pissed off before because I don't mind if you're saying stuff about me, but when my daughter's going into school and there's kids on computers on Google and stuff like that, I've seen Belle, I've seen, hey, calling my names and shit like that. It's my daughter, man. Do you know what I mean? It's like, she was upset about it. I didn't like that shit. But then when I saw, hey, straight out, we're in the ring. And he said to me, he said, well done. This is brilliant, man. This is well done. You're doing a good job. I just went to cheers. I'm looking at my, I just thought, I actually feel sorry for you. I did, I felt sorry for him. It was, it was quite a sad. But then we did it again and that was better. Belle, you absolutely screwed on the second one. No, it was a training intensity harder. Was it just a, did you just change the tactics because Belle, you're seeing it out of traps flying. The second fire went how it should have been in the first fire. That's, that's how, how the tactics were as such. But that period was the hardest period that I've ever had to deal with as a coach because Tony had lost his brother Ashleigh, his brother-in-law, but it's basically his brother. And from being a massive, massive character, life, the soul, it became, every day was so hard to work. Every day was so hard because he was just devastated. And I remember he was just broken. It's so sad. It's just, there was no conversation. It'd come in, we'd train, but there'd been no conversation. And it was so professional. Honestly, I got so much respect for him because he trained, he did everything I asked him to do. But he was outbroken while I was doing it. It was just, it was just so sad. I've never seen a man broken like that before. I don't think of it in my life. I've never, my circle is very, very small. I don't, I'm not around loads of people, apart from when you're at shows and things like that. I've not been around people that are close to me, that have lost people and been around them. And to see the change in him, it was awful. It was just, it was, it was just heartbreaking. And every day he was training, every day was doing what it was supposed to do. I was travelling up to, I was travelling up to Liverpool because obviously I didn't want to be away from racial and kids. So I was training, training my fighters that I had to train here and then travelling up to Liverpool and train him. And I was doing that every day, but you'd walk into the gym and no atmosphere obviously, no conversation. It'd been nothing, no conversation. It was such a struggle. And then the fight got postponed. And I'll be honest with you, thank fuck the fight got postponed. I was so happy because he did everything I wanted him to. He was doing it, but I don't know what value he turned up on that night because it rolled for me. Oh my God, it was in a bad way. So it was, it was so, well I was so happy that the fight got postponed even though it would gone through the training camp and everything. And I felt sorry for him because he spent a time growing to the gym and putting himself mentally through that for a fight that never happened. But ultimately, I knew that was the best thing for us because it gives him more time to heal as such. More time to grieve. And it did. And then the second fight went the second day that we got. We managed to get more. That's the thing, that's why boxing is so important for people's mental health. Any sort of exercise like that, probably training, even though they probably saved his life. He could have a spiral drink, whatever the fuck else comes with the madness. And that's why he's such a great character builder. That's why he's loved. That's why he could sell out stadiums because he's just one of the lads. Still a fucking decent guy. Just wants to hustle and show what hard work can do. That's what people can relate to. That's amazing to see that people pushing through. Even when I had him on the show and he was talking about his brother, you can see the sadness and you can see the dedication that he didn't want to quit because he had still had something to prove. That's constantly even new training fighters. Now you probably feel as if you, it's not that you feel as if you've want something to prove, but you just want to prove it to yourself. Yeah, but do you know what it is now? I'll be honest with you, soon as Bill you won that fight won the world title. Like I said, if I never achieved anything else from a personal point of view, I don't care. I've won British Commonwealth, European and world titles. But the people that I work with and know what it means to them and know what they're putting their lives through, they're putting their lives on hold. Jordan Gill is up here. He's got a new, well he's new, he's been married a year now, but his wife is back home in Peterborough. His family is very close to his family. His dad is in his mum and it's just the very, very close people. But he's up here, you know? La Ronde, they go from down south. He's up here. These people are spending the time away from the family and know what it means to their lives. They're giving everything to it, the diet and the ridicule on Twitter and on social media, things like that. You know what it means to them. It's their dreams, it's their dreams. So I have to do everything I can to help them achieve those dreams. And that's where the drive is. That's where, you know, the selfish side of things is gone. Where, like I said, it doesn't matter for me. Because I can... So it's a whole host of different things. It's not just the case I train, I feed her. It's also their motion, the stress, the diet. It's the motion mate. You know, with Jordan, it was him winning the Commonwealth title. That was his big break. Him winning the Commonwealth title was such a massive thing for him. Because he's a kid that's never had people believing him outside of his family. You know, never had the big backing, nothing like it. He's had to learn that, come up through the hardware to come that. And then he's going into a fight where he thinks he's going to get knocked out. And he goes in there and boxed a brilliant, becomes Commonwealth champion. That was massive for him. Now he's fighting for a European title. We're getting closer and closer. Now he's number four in the world. We're getting closer and closer. You see what matters to these people that you work with. The families, everything. Curtis Woodhouse winning a British title. That was massive. Again, the promise, the backstories of these people, the promise that Curtis had made to his dad, he fulfilled it. So when he achieves that and you've played that little part of it in helping that to happen. That's massive. That's huge. Yeah. How was that going out of the Usick fate, massive fate, undefeited fate? I had all the belts. What was the game plan going out of that? Bill, you was winning that fate. Yeah, because I knew that if Bill you was originally straight. So you're listening to, I watched the Usick against British fire where he wins all the belts. He wins the WBSS series. And the interview, I'm sat watching it with my wife. Bellies retired at this point. I don't want her to box again. I wanted her to retire after the first day of fight, but I understood we had to take the second. But that's it. You're done now, mate. Walk off into the sunset. So he's on holiday doing what he's wanting. And Usick calls his name out. Oh, you're fucking out. I remember. I'm sat on this and I just looked at her. I thought, you're fucking out. She went, what? I went, we're doing it again. She went, do you think? I went, he's called his name out on TV. There's no way Bellies is not biting. Why did they call his name out? Because he's a big money. And he's a big fish. No, because I ordered it. He's a big, he's just cleaned up with the division. You know, there's the one man that was the WBC champion. That's the one, you know. So, when Bellies, it says to me, what do you think? I went, man, I said, listen, I said, we can do it. I said, but let's do it every way. He spent two years at every way. He's not made that division. He's now about 35. I said, do it every way. I said, you're not being a cruiserweight for a long time now, mate. I said, my worry is, you're going to run out of gas. Not all the shot is the same as what you've been. And look at how you took those shots off her. Hey, you're more suited to that weight now. He was like, yeah, but he says, if I'm boxing him, I want to box for all belts. He says, I won't get the respect by pulling you sick up to every weight. I said, yeah, but he wants to go to every weight. He said he wants to fight for every weight title. Yeah, but I won't get respect. People said that I've, right. He says, and also I said, if I beat the cunt, I said, I want to fucking take all belts. They were his words. I was right. Okay, I get that. So I knew I've watched Usig over and over again. And Belu always, he was the one that pointed out Usig to me years ago when Usig was an amateur. He always said to me, there's this kid coming out of Ukraine. Watch him. Usig, he's the one. He's going to take over the division. So I've always watched him, kept trying him. And obviously he's getting further and further up. So I've watched him and everybody that goes to him, he just makes them look like mugs. He just takes them apart, completely takes them apart. And I was like, we've got to box this kid. That's confusing. Make it look like he's fighting a mirror image just such where he's having to draw the counters. And now for him to come forward. I see it's something he's not going to be as comfortable as you go into him. So he's like, right, okay. And we drilled it, drilled it, drilled it, drilled it. And he boxed really well. Unfortunately, it wasn't to be. But I remember on fight week, we sat on the press conference table. And I'm sat at this table. And you've got every single belt in boxing on the table. And I remember looking at it, I just thought, fucking hell. This is the absolute pinnacle. Of this sport was sat at the absolute pinnacle of sport. That's massive. Unified at the fight. That is huge. And I just thought then, I thought, this is huge. This is brilliant. We just got to win the fucking fight now. And it wasn't to be, it wasn't the ending that we wanted. But he put up a great fight. He really did. He put up a great fight. Do you think you'd have been tired if he went over the belts? Oh yeah, that was his last fight anyway. That was the promise. That was the last fight when I was losing. And that's why in the dressing rooms, everything, it was a bit more emotional than it would normally be. Because he knew it was his last fight. How hard does that see a boxer having to retire? It's hard because you know they've got to adjust. And it's hard because you forget, for years, I've spent hours in a day, every single day, with Tony Bellio in this gym, for years. And then that's taken away. And then there's a big void, there's a big hole. He's been a big part of my life. Before I even trained him, he was at my wedding. There's been a long standing relationship there. Yeah, he's not just an ex-boxer, he's a friend. And he'll be a friend for you. How is that? Because you've worked with guys like Chisora, who seems like a big fucking knockie. He's a... But I look at boxers, I get on with everybody, but I would be wary of him. He just looks an angry fight. I can imagine, you have to be wary of him. But do you know what? Again, he's just a big teddy bear. You know, I've never... People always say... He's terrified of him. I know that, yeah. Terrified of him. But he's just... He's like a big teddy bear. And he's just... He's completely different to what you'd expect. He's got this switch. Yes, he's got the switch. But he's actually a nice guy. And do you know what? I rate him because... If you're good around my kids, I've got a lot of time for that. And I remember the first time my little boy met him. I met... I went to meet him at the hotel that he was staying at. And I was on his way back from football training. And so I'm a little boy with him. So while I'd gone... I think I'd gone to the bar to get a cup of tea or something like that and a drink for him. And Chisora just started to... I had not even introduced him to me son. And Chisora knew who he was and just started talking to him. And they were talking about football and everything. And they were getting on and on. I can house on fire straight away. My kids love Chisora. They're very, very privileged and lucky. Because the... Especially my daughter really looks up to Belle. Because she was around him a lot. And so he's always like... He's always told he's like a protective uncle around her. But then they call Chisora Uncle Desa. You know, it's nice that they get to see people like that for what they are away from the TV cameras. How they really are, you know. Because I seen him. He finished the parker fight and Edie Hern was talking. And he walked over the White House quoting Edie Leeds. If he's shot himself. He was at the press conference. He's shouting. I'm not... I want to remain a bit... That's the quietest I've ever seen Edie Hern. Like you can see the fear in Eddie's face. You don't know if he's going to flip. How big is he? But he's... Do you know what it is? How do you train guys like that as well? On your pads? Is it not as hot your shoulders? Yeah, my shoulders are fucked. They are they? Yeah, like as in literally. I need an up on my elbow. Because I've got damage to my tendon and my ligaments. My left shoulder's knackered. It's part of the job. I've got problems in my neck when my vertebra in my neck. I swam at the chiropractors like two, three times a week. But it's part of the job. It's what I choose to do. If it's too much, then get another job. But I choose to do it. So it's part of the job. But it is very physical obviously. Because you're getting blasted. But Belly was the one that did all the damage. Because that was repetitive day in, day out, day in, day out. Then I got Pryce smashing pads. And with Pryce, I'm having to hold my hands right up here. Like literally right at the top. And then with Derrick, it's a different kind of power. Because he wasn't like a one punch knockout. When you're taking another pads, it's like... I really like it. David A. was pissing himself. The first day that I took him on the pads. I was like, I want to hit it. And is that it? And it was just everything was slow and took. But then as it got on, it was sharper. But with Derrick, you don't feel... I didn't feel the power as such while I'm taking them on the pads. It's when it gets to about five, six o'clock at night, your body then just feels drained and fucked. And it's the aches. That's how it gets to you. But yeah, it's part of the job. That's what you've got to do. Yeah. About a bit big down in weight. How's your relationship with him? Yeah, great. I've always got on with Dillion. Do you know what? I got a lot of time for Dillion. Because when three years ago now, my little boy was in three years ago, a couple of weeks actually, about a week ago. My little boy was in hospital with meningitis. I've seen a sort of that. And Dillion was messaging all the time. How is it? And even like a couple of months later, he's recovering all right. That again, anyone that's got time for my kids, I've got time for it. Do you know what I mean? And then he asked me if I could help him out on fight night for the perfecting fight. And so I went down on the Thursday. Foss one of the circuit? The first one. The uppercut? Yeah. And so I went down on the Thursday and spent a bit of time with him. And just having a laugh with his team, whatever you're in talking. And I watched him train with his coach. And then obviously on fight night, it wasn't the best. But he's a lovely guy. And I was devastated for him. I was devastated. Again, you know the story of how long he'd waited for a shot and everything like that. And for that to happen, it was awful. But yeah, I got really well with Dillion. Who's the best fight you've ever walked with? Tough question. Was that? Yeah, that is a tough question. Just nature, hard work, graagd. It's difficult because... Everybody's different. Yeah, but in order for me to be able to spend my time with you, you've got to be willing to work really hard. You've got to be dedicated. You've got, you know that. And it's like obviously, Belly's the most successful WBC world champion. Jamie McDonald won world title fights as well with me. But then you go and you say, well, Gavin McDonald was so improved loads. He was a kid that weren't expected to do anything in the end of fighting for a world title twice. We're in a European title. But then I look at the crowd that I've got now and I look at the talent that I've got now. Jordan Gill and Opie Price are outstanding. The wrong riches outstanding. So it's so difficult to say who's the best. Curtis Woodhouse was a grafter. The best mentality probably has to be Belly. Because regardless of anything that was going off, he's going to win. That's his mindset. Regardless, going into a fight with a crack rib, going into a fight with dislodged cartilage in his rib, McCarbu, here. Against here he had a crack rib. Do you know that? No. He would have been like that day bastard. The first shot that he throws, I think it was the first fight. The first shot that he throws was the right one there. I shit myself because I thought shit. That's it. That's where his rib went. I was like, fucking hell. You're looking at your man to see if there's a reaction. Belly is an ard bastard. He just, whatever. That's the ghost mentality. It's all ghosts, man. I don't know what mentality it is, but it has some different shit. That is some different shit. And like I said, pressure. And also his mentality as well. He can have a row right there in front of you. Like wow, god. Him en he, when they kicked off and the punches were swinging. The minute he gets off stage, it's back down to normal. Fine. Whereas other people still let up and wound up. He's fine. He's like just normal. He's got a weird mentality, but it works. It works. Going forward for the future, brother. What's the plans? We've met a couple of your upcoming stars today. Richard's 15 and 0. Great prospect. What's your plans for the fighters that you've got now? It's exciting times, because La Ronde is just won the European title. So we're looking at a name next. So hopefully a Rocky fielding type. But Rocky's had a great career. I don't know if he wants to come back and fight for a European title. That's the only belt that he's not won, I believe. But that'd be a big fight. If not, maybe a fight in America. But he's a fighter. He's only 15 fights in, but he's won British Commonwealth in European. So the next step is obviously world. But you've got to build that right. Jordan Gill's fighter for European title next. Jordan is phenomenal. And he's another one that I'll look at. And as he uses an example, you have a setback. How would you take that setback? Does it crush you, or do you become a better fighter because of it? And he's learnt so much from his loss. And he's come back so much better. The two big fighters he's had since his loss. Reece Belotti, I don't think you're going to get banged out. Massive puncher. Put on an exhibition against him. A masterclass against him. And then Juarez in his last fight. Tough Mexican. Been in a fight a year with Anita O'Donair. Comes forward swinging non-stop. Can punch like folk. And he was absolutely brilliant in that fight. So he's developed and he's come on loads. He's genuinely super, super talented. And then I've got a young kid, Hopey Price. I genuinely haven't seen a ceiling on him. He's that good. Got the great temperament. Got a great family background. Unbelievable work ethic. Soaking it up a spine with big names. Good fighters, men bigger than him. Stronger than him. And he's adding different facets to his game all the time. He's special. He's special. He's somebody that I genuinely look at. And I think he could do everything. You know, when you're talking about a Josh Taylor. He could do everything. You know, 21. If he's developed the right way. That's how I really are at him. Do you see that in fighters from a young age that you've got that something special that? I believe boxing is very, very complicated and complex. It's not. You know what people like to say? Oh, you don't need it hard enough. You'll get found out. Was me whether a massive puncher? No. Yeah, there's plenty of fighters that aren't massive punchers. Lauren said it the best way in his interview after he won the European title. I think the interviewer said, see on social media people already saying, you know, maybe you'll get found out at world level. Maybe that does happen. But his answer was because he said you get found out because you know, you don't punch hard enough. And he just simply said, if I don't punch hard enough, walk through me then. And so far, people aren't finding a way to walk through you. People didn't find a way to walk through me whether. Devinair and people are saying, oh, maybe you don't get hard enough, but look at what he's doing. You know, there are fighters that aren't the biggest punchers, but still world champions. Yeah, there's so many definitely. You know, there's the mentality, there's the experience, there's stability in your life away from the ring. You know, can you take on the instructions? Have you got the right sport network? Do you do your diet right? You know, have you got the right S&C sort of program? It's just too much. There's too less. You know, there's so many different things. And then on the night, you've got to put it all together and you could just have a bad night. You know, somebody in a normal nine to five has a bad day at work. Shit day. Somebody has a bad day at work in a box ring. You'll lose and everybody says you shit. You know, there's so many different things to it. Is there any fate that you would like to walk with? I would not say that now. Do you know what? I've always said five is my max that I would ever go back to working with. When I had the McDonald's Twins, Fowler and Belu and Pricey at one point. Oh, Fowler, Belu and Jordan, I think it was. Those five, that's it. I've only had five at most. I've got three now. I'm after with the three. If the right fit comes along, then it comes along. That boxing seems to be strongest just now, man. Yeah. Obviously a massive fan of George Taylor. On Belu and Ben's Phenomenos. We're working. I see him unifying at the vision as well. He's got a great attitude. Yeah. Great attitude again. I want to see a lot of his dad in him. I'm just worried about that. Oh, man. When he talks, it's his dad. But the pressure that kids like that are under him. Campbell Aten. Anybody that's a son of a legend. Oh, my God. Can you imagine pressure that they're under every single day? You know, there's pressure on them whether they went into boxing or not. But the fact that they've chose boxing as well. That'll tell you about their work ethic because they don't need to do that. Connor Ben. I love his attitude. I love his work ethic. I love how everybody's written him off from day one, but he keeps on improving. He keeps on improving. He's improved the last two weeks. But he listens to his coach. Tony Simms is doing a fantastic job on him. And Tony's a great coach. A very wise sort of coach. And he's taken on board everything that Tony's saying to him. And he's putting the work into it. And he's not listening to the detractors. He's not listening to the back slappers because that's just as important. Because people can tell you that you're doing great. And that can go to your head. And that can fuck the job just as much as somebody telling you that you're shit. And you're believing that you're shit. You've got to have that where I always feel that when somebody pays your compliment, it's nice. Thank you very much. But it goes in there and it comes out there. When somebody tells you shit and slags you off. All right, I'll take it. You can't ignore it because you're human. It's like when people go on about social media or you should ignore it. You can't ignore it. When somebody abuses you. But it goes in there but let it out. Because if you hold on to it, that's when it does its damage. You've had war of words with a troll. You went on Instagram live with a kid. He actually ended up apologising kind of shit himself. Which most trolls are. Shitbanks to be honest. But how is that feeling for the guy you start your kind of Instagram live? To be fair, I open up my DM's and I get loads of shit. Man, I get loads of shit. So did I. Everybody does. Everybody does. But every now and again I might be bored or I've got time in my hands and I'll give it them back. I got a message yesterday off of somebody that had popped me on Twitter the other week. And then fucking it got turned round on him. They come off Twitter and he sent me a message on my Instagram yesterday. Apologising and saying he shouldn't have. Fair enough. Yeah, that's what fair enough. But he's a grown man. He's got kids. It's like a fucking hell. Do you know what I mean? You can understand when there's these kids. But when it's grown men. But it's human nature. These people feel as though that they're safe because they're on the screen. How many times would the people that will abuse Anthony Joshua or Tony Beleuw or whatever, if they saw him in the street, would they go up to him and tell him what they think of him. No, they won't. They might go up and ask for a photo. I've had that. I've had that where people, somebody is asking for a photo. As you're leaning in and you're smiling like that. They said I'll give you some right shit on Twitter. I'm like in your rear asking for a photo of me. I think that's sad. Yeah, that's sad. What do you think looking back in your life brother? What do I think? Yeah. I'm happy man. Yeah. Listen, I've made mistakes. I fucked up. I've handled things wrongly. But I've been through a lot. I've learned a lot. And I would never ever say that I'm good at my job. I've never said I'm going to be good as a coach. I'm never any good as a manager or a promoter or working on TV. But I've done my best. But I will say that I'm a fucking wicked dad. And that's the one thing that I'm proud of. That I'm most proud of that. I have anything that I've ever done. Nothing will top that. My whole driving life is to be around as long as I can for my kids. And to help them in any way that I can. And that takes precedent over anything. And that's why nothing that anyone wants to say can affect it. Because I'm in control of that. How I treat my kids from what I came from to how I am. I'm proud of that. Because I do hear these excuses of people saying they're just repeating the circle. That's what happens to them. But I'm actually proud of myself. Because I've not been taught. I'm self taught as a parent. Which a lot of them are. I'm not saying I'm the best in the world. But what I'm saying is I'm the best that I could have been. And that's what I'm proud of. Yeah, that's the main thing. Everything else that comes into your life becomes a bonus. But looking back in your life and what you've came from brother. To what you're achieving is phenomenal. A lot of people get inspiration from this. And it's only the beginning. No doubt you're still hitting your prime. You get fucking world class fighters on there. Yeah, there's a lot more to come. There's a lot more to come. I mean, I'm more comfortable. I was very ashamed of my background. Because it's packed full of failure. Because it's packed full of ridicule. And it's laying yourself to be shown that you're weak. Because... Actual strength. But now, again, it may be age. Because as I'm in a position now where I see over the last couple of years where we see there's a lot more people struggling with mental health. There's a lot more people struggling with life in general. Life's getting more and more complex. Yeah, it's hard though. It's like us as parents were the first generation that have got kids on social media. So we can't get... Not that I've got parents to ask for advice. But we haven't got people to advise on it. So we're having to deal with that. So that's stressful in itself. Obviously coming out of a pandemic, that's been very, very stressful for a huge amount of people. People are so worried about so many things now. And it's affecting people with mental health. I'm getting so many more messages on my Instagram, on my Twitter, especially on my Instagram. So many messages of people that are struggling. And so that's why I'm more comfortable in letting people know. Do you know what? Actualy, it was shit for me. And I'm not the most confident of people. I wasn't the most confident of people, the most successful sort of people. I was struggling. I got out of me overdraft at 40 years old. That people think that, oh, you've cracked it. This, this, this. Well, I'm not going to apologise for our life is now when it's took such a long road. But I'm not ashamed to say that because there are so many other people that are in their overdraft in the 30s and going into the 40s. There is, it's just how life is. But I'm now in a position where I've got a big following or a bigger following, should I say. But it means that if people are asking for advice and people can draw one thing from them to not quit on themselves or not give up on the dreams. And so I'll speak about it. And I'm quite, I'm not proud of it, but I'm quite more at ease about talking about what I went through because I know it helps, it is helping people before they get the messages. Because it will help you as well. It shows, like I say, strength. It's not, you're not giving it the power anymore that you're afraid of it. For anybody that's watching, that's maybe in the struggle, that's maybe going through or abusive relationship, that's maybe scared to walk away from their parents or maybe getting bullied at school. What advice would you give for them, David? Don't give up on yourself because I nearly did. And it can get better. But you have to, there is always a way. You have to, if it means you're leaving, you have to leave. It's hard decisions, hard choices. But I'm a patron for Nakoa, which is a national association with children of alcoholics. There are outlets like that. There are people out there that you can get in touch with and you can speak to, that can offer you advice. And so let you know that you're not alone. Let you know that there are other people that have the same sort of thoughts, that are going through them same sort of things. Because I think the biggest factor a lot of times in mental health issues and struggles is that you think that nobody else understands. But there are people that understand that it's just that you have to make that step of speaking, of letting somebody know that it's not all right, that behind a smile there are stressors that are taking over and taking control of your mind. And I think it's important that people do reach out. Yeah. For coming on today brother and telling your story, I thoroughly enjoyed that full what you've done in the past to William now. Respect brother. Honestly and I can't wait to see what you do for the future. God bless you brother. Thank you. Thank you.