 Welcome to Education Matters on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm your host today, Carol Monly. Our show is called HPU's Dual Credit Program, College Credit While in High School, with my guests, Manny Sagal, the Dean of HPU's College of Professional Studies, and Robert Wilson, HPU's instructor in the College of Professional Studies. Hawaii Pacific University has developed a dual credit course program for high school students up both on the Big Island and Oahu. Last year, HPU partnered with Honoka'a High School to offer college credit for two courses. Robert Wilson used video conferencing tools to teach writing and reading arguments and intro to communication skills from the HPU downtown Honolulu campus to high school students in Honoka'a. If you want to ask a question or make a comment, you can tweet us at thinktechhi or call us at 374-2014. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having us. So good to have you here. I'm so particularly interested in this program because I think it's so valuable. So we'll start out with you, Manny, because you're the Dean and you're kind of the master behind all of these important programs. So tell us, how did it get started? Why is it important, and what are some of the problems and benefits in creating a dual credit program? Oh, good question, Carol. So when we take a look at something like this, we think that education empowers us for the future when it comes to us as an individual, taking a look at our families, taking a look at the community. And it started with actually President Gotanda, talking to the DOE, asking where there was a need and what we could do to help for a university. We're always taking a look at just contributing to society as well as what we can do here for the islands. And one thing led to another, and we were told that Honoka'a could use some help with some dual credit programs, some college credit courses. And it snowballed from there. So very exciting. Over the last year, we've been able to offer a couple of classes at Honoka'a. So what were the problems, what were they facing in Honoka'a, which of course is at the tip of the big island and not near Hilo or Kona or any other larger town or city? So I guess it was more geographical than anything else. Trying to, like you said, remote and trying to get another institution to come in and possibly teach a few classes there. It had started off a few years ago and it fizzled out. So another university, another college was there. I see. And so that led to an opportunity for us to, again, help out. So what we're talking about now are high school students and these must be students who are very high level in terms of wanting to aggressively learn more than just what the high school curriculum is offering. Is that right? Definitely, definitely. Very motivated. It's also taking a look at some students that possibly never thought that they would even attend college, go to college or just didn't even think about it, and to give them the opportunity to actually take a college course, see how it is, and hopefully decide that, hey, this is for me. It's doable. I can complete the course and continue on to an associate's or bachelor's degree. So does Honoka'a High School offer AP courses, advanced placement courses for college credit? Yes, they do. They do already. And so I was wondering at the beginning, why would we offer college courses when they have AP courses? Correct. Yeah. So what was the reason, why would they decide to do this? Well, a couple of things. AP courses are typically spread over the whole year and the college courses are one semester. So your courses are only offered one by semester. Correct. So, following Honoka'a's bell schedule and their day schedule, we're fitting their calendar rather than ours, but it's still a semester. And so they're meeting four days a week, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, you know, Wednesday they get out early, but they're meeting during their seventh period. So again, why not AP courses? Well, in some places, AP courses, the pass rate is only 5%. Really? Well, you score at a certain level. You score at a certain level. I think at the 3, 4, 5 score is only attainable by 5% of the student. In some places, yeah. So it's lower than, let's say, a college course. Because a college course, it's shorter. We also depend on the school to select the students. We make final say, but we're asking the advisors for their recommendations. Who's ready academically and who's ready in terms of motivation? I see. So is there a test to get into the college level course that HPO offered? We have a placement test for writing, and we would have one for math too, but we rely mostly on their recommendation. Recommendation. I see. And so how many students, how big is Honoka High School, and how many students actually enrolled in your course? I think it's about 660, something like that, enrollment, not at Honoka. At Honoka. I think it's both the high school and middle school, or is that just the high school? It is intermediate also. I see. Honoka High and intermediate. I see. And so then you were able to establish a college credit course for both the fall and the spring. And did the students have to pay for it? They did not. We had a donor graciously set up the funds for us and able to pass it along to the students, and that included their textbooks as well. So there was no cost to any of the students who participated in the program. What a wonderful opportunity for these students to get college credit without paying for it, and then being able to transfer it to colleges. Is that right? That's right. Shout out to our generous donor as well. So tell us, how many credits was your course, and tell us about the course that you actually taught then at Honoka. Okay. The regular college courses, so three credit hours, which involves 40 hours of instruction, just like our main campus courses. The fall course was introduction to... It was freshman writing. Heavy dose of argument, formal argument of the writing. The school requested that, and then for the second term we offered communications, introduction to communication. That was, again, 40 hours of instruction. I was qualified to teach both, so I continued on from the fall to the spring. So mechanically tell us how that works. So you're here in Honolulu at the HPU campus in downtown Honolulu, which is right there, our background, the beautiful background of Loha Tower. And the students are all the way in Honoka in their classroom. Actually, I think we have a picture of Rob, what he sees, it's in the library, yes. So tell us what is that picture of? That's the students taking their final exam. And they're sitting in the library. And how many students? That's the first semester or the second? That's the first semester. They were 18 who signed up, one dropped within the first week just for scheduling conflicts. But all 17 made it to the end. And where are you in all of this picture? They're sitting there at their long tables quietly writing an exam and you're facing them on a screen? Actually, I'm there. Oh, you're physically there, that one you went to. Right, so the first day of the term and the last day. I see. Okay, great. But typically, all the other classes, four days a week, you said, was it 40 minutes a day? You're on a screen? I'm on a screen. I can make it as big, I can fill up my image on the screen. So they see me very well. I have limited ability to zoom in on them. So what you saw in that image of the class, I have to pretty much know who's who's sitting where because I can't see all the details of their face and whether they're understanding. I see. I can see whether they're looking down at their phones. So what kind of equipment are you using in long distance from here and what do they have there? Does that include purchase of equipment? Was there a need to purchase new equipment? We had some new equipment. Longer term, our tech person is looking to move it up a notch to make it more interactive so that the video can zoom. I can see them more. We can have more mics positioned around the room. We had one central mic so I can hear what these two students are whispering it to each other. Is there a camera person there in Honoka? They have the tech person there on standby. His office is right off to the side so he sets it up every day. Is he an HPU person or Honoka? No, he works in Honoka. So he's a tech person for the high school who helps sets it up and you are then remote here in Honolulu but live during the period. So they can see me. We both log in at the same time. I can log in before him or vice versa. We're on the same account basically. We use the software called Zoom. It's an online video conferencing software. We would like to upgrade in the future. The tech person has a very good idea of how we can make this more interactive. There are smart whiteboards that we can set up on both ends. So I can have a student on the classroom side write something on the whiteboard and it shows up on my whiteboard and vice versa. That way we wouldn't have to zoom in on the board to see what I'm writing or what they're writing. So Manny, is there a plan to acquire this kind of extension? There is. We've got an amazing CIO, Cody Down and his staff and team and Mark Nita who happens to be a former grad of Honolulu. So he's very familiar with the way things are and set up and he still has a lot of connections there. So now he works at HP with us under the CIO and so he's in the IT department and he has been amazing when it comes to being instrumental in setting things up and what we need and what we could do to improve things. So we're always looking at continuous improvement to make sure that there is a seamless flow when it comes to communication for the students and their instructor. And Rob in this case. Right. So I guess I'm interested in two things then. First the technology and then the type of the curriculum itself. So as far as the technology then, so this is really distance learning which many of us have known for a long time, right? Higher education is used, distance learning, different campuses and all that. So how does this differ from the distance learning that we've all heard about in the past? Typically distance learning is asynchronous. Which means that the students can access the material anytime they want. It doesn't have to be, they don't have to be online the same time as a teacher. And so the teacher is not actually live during the time, the period. I see. So we want it to be synchronous so we can see what they're. And they're all at the same time, the same place hearing you, hearing the same information and then they can hear each other's question. Yes and when I hear their question, everybody can hear my answer. So do you think that's a better way of learning for high school students? Definitely. Why is that? Well, let's say if we went to a podcast, if I just recorded the lecture and posted it. And each level courses are often like that. And then it turns into an online class that's asynchronous and it really cuts down the interactivity. And yes, you could use discussion board, you could use email, but I'd like rooms, chat rooms, yes. And online courses do use that and do use it successfully. But then the question is why gather the students in one place? And I think if we let the students go off one on one, doff on their own, they might not do it. Right. It's a completely different experience. Right. Okay. Now let's talk about the actual content of the courses. How did you find the students able to participate and to learn and to be equivalent of high school freshman, a college freshman? It was a challenge with the writing because the way I teach my course, it's more contemporary issues, topics, terrorism, educational reform. They don't have much real world experience beyond the high school level. So I had to adjust my topics to their interest and through their knowledge level. Of course, I assign articles that they can read that prepare them for the final. And the final is a problem solution essay. How should the U.S. government, for example, deal with this problem? Or educational reform? How should Hawaii change its education? Okay. Should high school be required? Right. Well, we're going to go to break. And after the break, I want to come back and ask you, how do the students do? Okay. Okay. So this is Education Matters with Think Tech, Hawaii. And my guest, Rob Wilson, and Manny Sakal from HP will be right back. I'm getting older. Do I need to worry about falling? Yes, you do. Each year, one in four people, 65 and older, will experience a fall. And many will be serious. The majority of falls happen at home, so remove things that could make you trip and install handrails to keep you steady. To learn more about the steps you can take to help prevent a fall, please talk to your doctor. You can also visit aarpfoundation.org or Medicaremadeclear.com slash falls. This message was brought to you by UnitedHealthcare and AARP Foundation. Hi, everyone. I'm Andrea Gabrieli. The host for Young Talent's Making Way here in Think Tech, Hawaii. We talk every Tuesday at 11 a.m. about things that matter to tech, matter to science to the people of Hawaii with some extraordinary guests, the students of our schools who are participating in science fair. So Young Talent's Making Way every Tuesday at 11 a.m. only on Think Tech, Hawaii. Mahalo. Welcome back. This is Karamann Lee with Education Matters. And my guest, talking about a dual-credit program established by Hawaii Pacific University and its different locations. So we ended the last first half by talking about the exam that you gave to the 17 Honokah High School students, and you had two classes, one in the fall and the spring. So how did they do taking a college-level class? The writing course in the fall, I was pleasantly surprised that they all finished. Not all passed. So we have pass rates that are very comparable to what we have on the main campus, real college classes. And what is that? What's the pass rate? For this one, I think it was about 70, 80 percent. Passed. Yes. Okay. And the second term, we had 10 students, and those 10 were actually continuing from the fall, the same students. So they got two courses. We had seven out of 10 pass. And how many credits did they get? Three credits for each. Three credits for each, which they can now transfer on their transcripts. That's right. So was also able to use for their high school graduation requirements? They were, actually, yes. Yes. So they get high school and college credit. Great. And they did not have to pay a penny for the course. They did not. Wonderful. What a great opportunity. I think we have a picture of the group of students. One more image. Okay. So Rob, tell us, this is from the first semester or the second semester? That was first semester, and I think that was the first day. I went over there for the first day of class and for the last day of class. I'm there on the right. And we're in the library building. I was going to say that's an old student on the right, but no, they should. Okay. Great. Okay. So let's talk, so that was, so tell me, how did you think it went? If you evaluated the program for the first year, some of the pros and cons of this dual credit program? Good learning on both sides. There are many things I would change to make it better. How would you, what would you change? Well, we start with talking with the advisor at Honokaw or whichever school we're at. How would you like us to treat the students? Do you want us to treat them just like normal college students? Give the assignment, let them go? Or do you want us to have more shepherding involved? And should that shepherding come from me, the instructor, or you, the advisor on your end? And what did you do this year, without knowing? Their decision was treat them like normal college students. And I think we could get a higher pass rate if the advisor had the permission to just step in and say, how are you doing? Are you keeping up in your homework? And I could keep the advisor apprised of what's going on. Who might need some little nudging or pushing or pulling? That seems to make sense, because you're acknowledging on one hand that they're intellectually capable of college of courses. But physically, emotionally, they still may be, they are high school students. Yeah, time management. So yeah. Okay. That's another good thing. If it was a face-to-face class on the main campus, and I saw a student who's falling behind and not turning in assignments, I would have the student come to my office. And I can't do that. Regardless of fact, they're already college students, right? Right. Because you're a small school that is able to have the hands-on one-on-one with students. And that's why people choose HP. Yeah. Okay. So I guess that you found that we're beyond what you had expected. Hmm. I think just the opportunity that we were able to provide the students Yes. was phenomenal. Yes. And just to know that we are able to help in a certain way to help ready our students of the future, to take a look at college. And again, to let them know that they're capable, they're ready. They have the opportunity. And if they would like to continue to take more dual credit courses, it actually helps with their family when it comes to the financial side of things going to college afterwards. Absolutely. Saving time and money. Exactly. Right? They're graduating in four years. They can maybe graduate in less. That's right. That's right. And they can, I understand that they actually feel now that they can manage college. Yeah. Exactly. Right? Have a sense that this is something that they can do. It's not. Can I do it? I have done it. Right. Yeah. So, okay, let's talk about the future now. So what's happening? Are you going to go back to Honoka? What are the schools you've been working with? So we love dealing with Honoka and we love the students at Honoka and with great experience, so we are ready to go back in the fall. And you have all the technology ready. We do. And we're constantly improving that as well. So we're looking right now at discussing with the principal and the counselor with regards to what courses their students would be interested in taking. And we're ready to offer that in the fall and we're trying to expand it actually to maybe even offer a couple of courses each semester. Just taking a look at logistics and how we would run things right now. Right. And what about Oahu? I know that there's some schools on Oahu. So yes, we have a partnership of five schools all together. So we also have St. Andrew's Schools right down the street from us downtown. We have Island Pacific Academy. We have Kamehameha Schools. And we also have Marinal. Wonderful. So have you already started some of those partnerships? We actually have started all of them all within the last couple of years. St. Andrew's Schools has been with us a long time affiliation. How does that work? It's not the same distance learning issues you have. Exactly. So with St. Andrew's Schools, currently it's the girls that are sophomores, juniors, seniors, they actually come to our campus and they'll take a course that was just regularly offered. And so they blend right in and regular college students and they take the course and they get credit for it. And again, they're able to take that anywhere they go or if they want to stay with us, they automatically get that college credit ahead of time. So helping them finish earlier, helping them financially, but also helping them complete their degree to a better degree earlier and then being, I guess, entering the workforce. Quicker. So do they have to apply to college first to be admitted to take these courses? Or they're still in high school? They're still in high school. So they'll fill out a special status form with us. And that allows them to take three to four classes with us at HPU without being enrolled. Without being enrolled. As a freshman. As a freshman, exactly. I see. And then tuition again. How is that paid for? A credit. So a good question. Each individual school is set up a little bit differently. So I would probably encourage if there's a student out there or a school out there to come and talk to us directly and we'll see what we can do. But there is no cost to the student. No cost to the student. No cost to the student. And so, and it's your regular curriculum. So if you have your writing course in place at HPU downtown campus, right? So you might have, how many students do you typically have in your class? Writing courses, I think, are capped at 18. 18. And of those you could have then some HPU, some priory, St. Andrew's Priory students, maybe a high school students, part of it. But you would still have some college students in there too. Yes. The first time we had the marinal students on campus, I was their instructor. It was an unusual situation. But we had them together in one class. So we had six students come in, five of them placed into my class in terms of writing. And then we had five other regular college students in that class. So it was a good mix. But now, in subsequent terms, they're all diffused throughout the regular section. So they're not kept together. Did you find, do they blend in pretty well then with the freshmen? They do. Sometimes the instructors have no idea that they're 16 or 17 years old. Right. And so are your exams blind exams? You know, do you know the name of the student who's writing an exam? Yes. Oh, OK. Yeah, our classes are so small. Yeah, it's hard to have blind. Yeah. Law schools always have blind exams. Yeah. That's right. And so what you said, do you have how many more schools? You have Honoka and you have all these other schools, local schools for this coming year. That's right. Yes, we do. The Pacific Academy is a little different where we actually hold the classes on their campus. I see. And they're open to HPU students as well as Island Pacific Academy students as well. How exciting. So you offer so many different programs with different schools. Is this something that other universities and colleges do regularly? Offer high school level, offer courses for high school students? U-H does. Uh-huh. They have, I think starting this fall, they have something called the Manoa Academy for different school students. I know that St. Francis, right across from U-H, they'll be able to send some students to Manoa Academy starting in the fall. The early start program, same idea. Great. And do you need funding? How is that working? How do you support? How does HPU, is this part of your regular day to day budgeting? So what we're looking at right now again is each school is done individually, but we try and make sure that nothing is passed on to the students. So this is strictly a complete benefit for the student and from textbooks right on to taking the course, they save on the tuition. So really to encourage all students to take a look at the capabilities that are within and take the chance of taking that college course and getting a chance to do it before you actually go off the college or if you're staying right on island, getting that opportunity, experience beforehand. So you feel comfortable when you actually do enter college. And so you have to work closely then with each school to, they actually select or take care of the enrollment of the students, is that right? Right now they do yes. They make sure that the respective school hand selects their students and then we also, once we get the students, we'll do a double check and make sure everything's good and that they have the proper prerequisites and we want to make sure we set up our students for the success. Exactly. Exactly. And how do you measure success then? I mean we know the pass rate for Honoka maybe next year, if you did more hands on with the students it might even be higher. But how else would you measure success? Is this a program that's growing for HPU? We are hoping it does, we're anticipating it does and we are just taking a look at giving back whatever we can to the islands. Yeah. To Oahu and the neighbor islands. And... How about any other neighbor islands? Possibilities are open. Yeah. We're excited the way things have been going so far. So nothing but positive and we are looking to again continue and expand. An example with Merinol, the students at Merinol come to HPU full-time. So they send us some of their best and brightest. They go full-time at HPU during the day and in the afternoon they go back to Merinol for their religion class and their sports and clubs. So at the end of two years they would have their high school diploma and an associate's degree. Oh my goodness. And they haven't paid any HPU tuition. That's amazing. So they say $50,000. Two full years. Wow. Two full years of college degree. Well this time has gone by so fast so I mean just kind of we only have a few seconds left and Manny I'm going to let you look in the camera for it and just tell our audience or viewers how they can contact you in case they have more questions. Whether it's schools, administrators or students. Yeah. So you can actually shoot me an email. It's msigal at hpu.edu and I think it's on the screen right now. And we would be happy to talk to you as an individual if you're a student, if you're a parent, if you're a specific school administrator. And we could probably get this turned around within a few months so that your students could take advantage of taking the college credit classes as soon as possible. Great. Well thank you so much Rob. Thank you so much Manny. It has been a really important topic I think. It's something that I think our viewers should be very interested in especially in this economic time and in this time where students have high levels of interest and opportunity to actually take college level courses. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well that brings us to the end of our show today. We've enjoyed bringing it to you. I'm your host Carol Monly and we've been talking about HPU's dual credit program, college credit while in high school with Manny Segal and Rob Wilson. If you want to see this show again go to thinktechhawaii.com or youtube.com slash thinktechhawaii where there will be a link to this show and many more just like this one. 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