 Aloha and welcome to Cooper Union what's happening with human rights around the world and today we're going to be looking at a global movement known as the UN Sustainable Development Goals as well as its method for accountability the UN voluntary national reviews and the UN high-level political forum where at least over 40 countries have their advancements measured and monitored by civil society but also their peers around the world the member states to see how we're doing to achieve the UN 2030 agenda. Today I'm fortunate enough to be joined by Oli Hinman, NGO major group in action for sustainable development. Oli thank you for joining us today here in Hawaii. Thanks so much Joshua it's great to be able to connect with you through the the zoom link I wish I could be there in person but it's fantastic to connect with you. We wish you could as well. We know here in Hawaii we've been focusing on the UN Sustainable Development Goals and when we didn't have as good of a national leadership as we were discussing earlier we were able to pursue even more creative venues such as voluntary local reviews but maybe we could share with the audience what are the UN Sustainable Development Goals? How did they get created and why are they so crucial for a common future? Sure I mean that's a great place to start I mean I think you and I were both very active at the time back in 2015 when as you say there was a different leadership in the world we had a key kind of understanding between some of the leadership in the US under Obama the European Union and also crucially the Chinese around that time to agree on a package of development aims and ambitions that would frame the next 15 years from 2015 through to 2030 and these goals are to kind of build on what had been in place before which were the Millennium Development Goals and there was also the Rio Earth process the Rio Plus 20 process and they brought those two together so you have the kind of more traditional development side which includes areas like education and health and gender equality together with climate and environmental targets and biodiversity targets and bringing those together into a kind of blueprint for a more just and sustainable world so connecting all of these different elements in terms of rights in terms of sustainability in terms of climate and biodiversity and within those there are now 17 goals within those 17 goals there are series of indicators that all countries are supposed to achieve by the time we get to 2030 in order to be on track to reach that world that is more just and sustainable the climate targets for example tie in very closely with the Paris Agreement the human rights targets tying closely with the agreements that go on at the Human Rights Council at the UN the gender targets tie in with some of the discussions that have been happening at the Generation Equality Forum just now so it's really a way to connect the dots between all of these different aspects of an agenda to create that more that fairer and more sustainable world that we all that we're all striving for oh those are really good explanation and in many ways it does sort of fall into four building blocks right for a building back better and balance and beauty you know the first was a sort of economic social and cultural rights those second ones sort of a fair economy third ones looking at really the the climate and what needs to be done to protect our planet and the fourth one is peace justice human rights and then partnering together in new ways beyond those traditional and I thought that was a great way also to link up with gender in the most recent summit that just took place in Paris and then also bringing up again the Paris Agreement from 2015 and many had forgotten about the millennium development goals those important eight but bringing those together with the real plus 20 that really only had five it was a lot of advancement by civil society to reach that 17 would you like to share some of the aspect of that organizing between that 2012 and 2015 to expand those to that really impressive 17 uh global goals yeah absolutely and and that's a great summary Joshua in terms of as you say like the people planet prosperity and then peace and partnerships absolutely they sometimes talk about the sort of four or five peas as those kind of key areas as you say and and what was interesting yeah thinking back to the way it was negotiated as you as you probably remember there had been quite a lot of discussions around the Rio plus 20 summit and then you had this kind of gradual move as you say from 2012 through to 2015 where the UN began a process mandated by the General Assembly where they identified what they call the co-facilitators so like a co-chair's moderators to run the process and those people then organized a series of consultations and dialogues with what's called the major groups and other stakeholders and you you mentioned at the start that I'm involved and one of the organizers of the NGO major group and so under the original agreement in the Rio earth summit I think going back to 92 they had nine uh groups that were identified nine major groups and so NGOs being one women being one indigenous peoples being one trade unions farmers have their own group business and industry science and technology so many of the sort of key areas constituencies if you like but then what was agreed around 2013-2014 during the negotiations was that the original nine were not actually sufficient so we've gradually expanded on those and and the additional stakeholder groups include for example disability rights at LGBTI volunteers older persons so you now have an even broader range of now 21 different stakeholder groups that are identified although the NGO major group is still one of the biggest of those and and perhaps one of the most organized and what we try to do is to connect with different NGO networks in every part of the world particularly where you have a national coalition or you have a grouping that is already active within a country that wants to connect with others and we try to bring together those different voices and enable them to then come forward at the UN spaces and so we then have an internal process where we identify different speakers for different sessions and so throughout that negotiation we were able to bring in different voices from different parts of the world who might have an interest or knowledge in some of those key areas that we talked about so whether it's on forest stewardship we might bring in people directly with experience in the Amazon or if it's on gender equality and those working on women's rights we might then involve them directly in that part of the negotiation so it's always been a collaborative process and I think that's you know that's been one of the key things in terms of how we self-organize and that it's not something that the UN decides who will speak on each issue but we as stakeholders have the right to identify from our own kind of peers who are the the best place to to engage on each of these different themes. Oh those are really good points and reminds me also I think it was Kenya and Ireland that were chairing then through that time and those chairs were really looking to civil society and I remember some of the meetings we had had he would actually have a day where he says no you know the states you know what you see but actually civil society in some case has the expertise to guide us through to create those 17 global goals and I didn't know if you might have a story about one of those chairs or some aspect remembering because it is true it's NGOs picking really the people who have the best experiences and the knowledge to be able to then come up with those global goals but then figuring out what we do on the ground and bringing those best promising practices to the global level. Absolutely right and I'm glad you mentioned those two co-facilitators yeah I mean as you say it's always two ambassadors and normally they have one from the global north one from the global south and in this case yeah it was Ambassador David Donahue from Ireland and Ambassador Kamau from Kenya who were both excellent and very engaging and very open and very as you say candid in how they dealt with civil society saying look guys we don't have all the answers we need you to help us and I think particularly the language around leaving no one behind which we know has made such a big difference in terms of the SEG so leaving no one behind has become a kind of cross-cutting principle across all the 17 goals that whatever we do in each of these key thematic areas we need to ensure that those who are normally furthest behind are then put first and that they're not left behind and I remember talking to David Donahue the Irish ambassador and he said exactly that but some of the language that actually made it into the final version of the text was provided by NGOs because we had that experience and many of different networks have that experience of working with some of the most vulnerable communities and so they they know how to frame it in such a way that builds trust and that guarantees that those voices really are being heard. Oh that was amazing because I do remember it was this August session was those midnight all-nighters with people sleeping in the lounge right behind the meeting room pizzas being delivered because NGOs couldn't leave but it was really people working I know Palau was really working hard on STG-6 to clean water and it was exciting and then what was exciting with the adoption in September of course around the UN General Assembly the official adoption was we then started looking at processes on how states would then report and what was agreed upon was these voluntary national reviews and I know every year it's around 40 countries that raise their hand and say I will pledge to do my voluntary national review and could you share a little bit about what the VNRs are and and how those have been used to be able to advance the 2030 agenda? Yeah so I mean as we as we said earlier with 17 goals there are more than 160 targets and many different indicators that sit within those and some countries have slightly different indicators because not every country has exactly the same kind of baseline if you like where they're starting from so what we did find early on and you probably remember this Joshua that a number of member states said oh you know there are just too many targets there's no way we're going to be able to report on all these and you know it's going to be too costly and there was quite a big push at the last minute to try to reduce them down but that was resisted partly by the co-facilitator so yeah so then the agreement came as you say on all of the goals and targets and then the idea was that every year government should come back and report on their progress on these 169 targets and so as you say the voluntary national reviews are voluntary so each government can choose when they want to report and they should report against all of the goals and all of the targets now unfortunately we know that you know a number of member states have used the excuse of it being too many goals and also one of the things that I think was not a bit unexpected was that as part of the annual cycle of the high-level political forum which meets in July as you said as well as the voluntary national reviews there are also thematic reviews happening at the same time and I think that's led to a little bit of confusion with some member states because some member states seem to think that they only have to review the goals that are under thematic review whereas actually they're supposed to be two separate processes one process is a thematic review say for example on human rights this year or on clean water as you said but the vnrs are supposed to cover all goals and so we've seen a bit of a mix and it's been a bit of a mixed picture over these five six years now where different governments have reported sometimes on all the goals sometimes only picking some goals sometimes picking the goals that they think they're doing better on and not talking about the goals and not doing so well on so it's it's it's a bit of a tricky one that the there isn't such a strong accountability mechanism and actually I was also told by some of the negotiators at the time the word accountability was deliberately dropped from the text they didn't want to have that word they talk about voluntary state-led process they talk about reviews and they talk about follow-up but they don't actually talk about accountability so there's no there's no requirement there it's it's entirely up to them what they say and I think it's noticeable that there are still one or two governments that haven't reported I think actually the US still has chosen not to report which is quite surprising I mean well I guess it's understandable given the administration that you've had over the last few years but hopefully the new administration will be will be stepping up soon oh that's a it's a really good point and it's quite true I mean when we look at the vnr I remember the negotiations I was invited even to Berlin where Germany was trying to look at the universal periodic review as a model and try to come up something at least at that level and that standard not below that but there there are some differences as you pointed out one is you know the upr is over three hours the vnr's are 20 to 30 minutes so it's hard to cover really a goal a minute and be substantive and so I think we have fallen below and I you did raise a great point about it should be all 17 goals and many states of course when they have been doing those reviews sort of even started out as a tourism video I mean being from Hawaii we can see it where they start with the video talking about how wonderful they are come visit come enjoy have our sustainable coffee you know and all these actions where the civil society is calling more for urgency especially knowing that we're below a decade and you brought up the great point too it is a voluntary national review so countries make that announcement usually it's around this time of the year when it starts but then by January we know who will appear in July as you talked about and it was true the United States one of the few that have not gone China did its second one I believe this summer a couple other countries have up to their third and so it's definitely one of those aspects in Hawaii we organized a voluntary local review last year and at that we actually did a a VLR lab for over an hour and a half where all the Hawaii mayors governor also federal officials in the Congress spoke so that it was what we were trying to find was really a model that's it's not 30 minutes it really has to be more like three times that at least 90 minutes and we tried to do that the local level and we do believe of course with the current administration taking the steps on the Paris Agreement working on the nationally determined contribution that NDCs that probably will see the United States this year and what we'll be looking at is how civil society can mobilize especially in such a large country to do a good job on all 17 and we've done it in Hawaii we have really we've made videos by high school students about each of the goals and what it looks like illustrating it in our islands and that was exciting we've indigenized the SDGs behind you so they're in Olalo Hawaii Hawaiian language but also localized because we have a pigeon as well so that they're more really popular among the people and people know the 17 goals and so we've done a lot and it'll be exciting to see how we can coordinate around the country are there some examples of best practices of VNRs that you think you could share either from the first ones or really the ones that just happened in the last week yeah absolutely um just just to come back for a second on the moment in New York I think you you hit on something really important which is that it it was something that actually has been raised again so just in this last year there was a review of the VNR process and many member states themselves were highlighting that the time given for the VNRs is too short as you say I mean every country is expected to give this full report in only well the actual presentation is only 10 minutes and then you have maybe five to 10 minutes for questions and then five to 10 minutes to respond so as you say the whole thing is half an hour which is incredibly limited when you're talking about an entire transformative agenda and so it does need to be more time that was raised it was actually raised again during the VNRs this time by one of the co-chairs of EcoSoc the ambassador from Mexico Ambassador Sandoval where he himself said this is a ridiculously short time but we were pleased that we insisted with the UN that even with that type time it was important to have at least one statement from a major group or stakeholder an NGO a civil society representative to be able to make a point so that it's not only the government's point of view but we do hear at least one voice independent voice with a question to that government and I think there have been some good examples of where that's been used quite effectively even if it is only a two-minute intervention of course we would really continue to push to have more time but as you say it's not just that moment in New York it's a much longer process and as you say it starts already August September government start coming forward certainly by the end of the year as you say the next round of governments will be agreed and we as civil society need to mobilize at the national level while those discussions are happening and as action for sustainable development one of the things that we do is we provide some capacity building you know webinars but we also provide a little bit of direct resourcing for national coalitions to be able to run their own consultations alongside the official process and there have been some great examples I mean one good example actually last year was in India where again it's a very big country as you say like in the US and a very diverse population and so they were able to run I think 17 different consultations around the country looking at the different thematic areas with different constituency groups so specifically consultations with Dalit communities indigenous communities women's rights activists are really making sure that they were hearing voices from all of those different communities that are not normally heard and in different parts of the country not just relying on one kind of meeting in the capital you know you really need to get out and hear those voices from different parts of the country interestingly this year Zimbabwe did quite a quite a strong process and there were two big networks in Zimbabwe one is called the the National Association of NGOs Nango and then there's another one that focuses specifically on poverty reduction the poverty reduction forum trust and they came together and ran a very wide series of consultations as well and I think Zimbabwe is an interesting place they've had a recent change of administration they're also trying to show that they're reengaging with the international community so there was a little bit of a window for some potential dialogue there Sierra Leone was another strong example Sierra Leone's one of those countries is now doing its third VNR already and I think they see the SDGs as a kind of blueprint to come out of the fragile state and the conflict that they've had in their past you know this is a way for them to you know set their their future direction and so the government they're taking very very seriously you've also had countries like Mexico Colombia quite a few in Latin America this year actually Guatemala Paraguay even where it's not always easy for civil society voices to be heard but we are very keen to try to make sure that even if they're not heard in the official statements even if the government eventually doesn't include the inputs from civil society we can still promote independent reports and Colombia is another good example of that where this year we know that there's a lot of conflict happening in Colombia there are you know there's unrest and uprisings at the moment but still the civil society groups were able to organize themselves come together come up with a clear statement their own independent assessment not pressured by the government and that's really essential but you know even when it's a difficult environment that we hear those independent voices and that they can also speak at the highest levels at the UN and it is exciting because it is in the VNR that they directly speak to maybe the presentation by the government or highlighting some of the issues that maybe were ignored but then there's also the exciting aspect of the high-level political form with so many panels so it's a two-week really extravaganza of an exchange between everyone on earth about what is our common future and maybe you could highlight a bit some of the high-level political form how that's evolved what were some of the ways that civil society's voice was able to be heard in that process I know there's the thematic aspects in that first week and then we get more into the VNRs in the second but there's so many exciting things going on maybe you could share some of the ways civil society is most involved yeah I agree with you and I like the way you set it out as a kind of a meeting for all of humanity to come together and I mean as we've seen over these five six years since the the goals were agreed each year those thematic days the first half of the week has often led to some quite interesting juxtapositions where you've had discussions on as you said you know water cleanliness alongside oceans you've had discussions around human rights and gender you've had discussions on education and access to you know jobs and employment and sort of bringing together those thematic areas that complement each other but at the same time I think it's unavoidable that in the last couple of years the main focus has been on the pandemic and how we build that recovery and so a big part of the discussions both last year and this year has been around resilience and recovery and what does a recovery look like how do we build a recovery that actually leaves no one behind and what is potentially exciting and I mean maybe I'm I'm optimistic I'm hopeful still but you know there is a possibility that the SDGs and the kind of underlying transformative change that that is somehow captured in the SDGs should be the way forward out of the pandemic and actually the pandemic might be the final trigger that we need for people to wake up and realize that we've got to be much much bolder with the transformation so I think what had been happening in the last five years was very piecemeal very small you know a lot of the goals are not being reached and maybe this is the final push that forces people to realize that yes you know human health the environment and the economy are inextricably linked and we if we want to make sure that people are healthy and safe they also need to have a future that is sustainable and not rely on fossil fuels and maybe this is the moment where we can we can push that change through it's true the SDGs are really a recipe for the moral revolution that we need because it points out everything the pandemic exposes it but the SDGs provided that process for a participatory proactive really philosophy and practice to change how people on planet interact and to see that we are all one and that's one of the aspects we can look at especially as we see the pandemic continuing to ravage around the world we are one and if you have to have no poverty you have to have zero hunger you have to have clean water you have to have quality education you have to have housing you have to have all these aspects or the world will continue to spiral in the direction that no one wants to live in but these 17 global goals provide in a way a framework that's a foundation for a future that everyone wants and that pandemic has shown us that we have to have all 17 because if we don't and we ignore them and you brought up earlier and we can maybe close out with it but to leave no one behind and furthest behind first those were very powerful points and it also then challenges the model of development and it puts dignity at the center and makes sure that all policies rooted in human rights so that high level political form is that space where we all come together but it's also that time where we reckon with with how we can coordinate. Yeah I think you're absolutely right and you highlighted I mean goal one zero poverty goal ten on reducing inequalities and what's interesting for me when I've looked at the VNRs is quite often people talk about goal one on zero poverty but they don't link it to goal ten on inequalities and so although it may be that in some countries absolute poverty is is reducing at the same time the very wealthy are continuing to get wealthier and wealthier so the gap from the bottom to the top is is even bigger than it's ever been and unfortunately in the pandemic we've seen that continuing and so I think you're right to highlight dignity human dignity the importance of those who do have more in society do bear a responsibility and as you say it's a moral responsibility to then share that resource particularly in an emergency and I think another good example of that is the the vaccine equity and the question that so many countries like the UK where I'm sitting now have stockpiled huge supplies of the vaccine far beyond what they need for their own population while in many other parts of the world people still haven't even had access to the first vaccine I think it's not more than about one or two percent in many countries and so that is just shocking to me and I cannot understand how our leaders would not see as you say that if we want to resolve this pandemic we have to take everyone with us it's it's a global situation and that requires global solutions and and hopefully I mean that is what I hope is that our politics will start to look in that in that way towards solidarity towards identifying our common humanity rather than the kind of you know putting your own national interest first and ignoring the others I think you know it's so important now that we identify better ways to collaborate better ways to build that that society in which everyone is is able to have opportunities and can thrive going into the future it's true I mean you've really covered today the aims and aspirations the ambitions and the actions and what more we can do on accountability and really also bring up it's true we almost have vaccination apartheid and we have to work on all those issues all at the same time but the SDGs provide the way that we can do that the VNR is a space that we can measure and monitor and mobilize around and the HLPF is a way to continue to even inspire as you've done today with your optimism of how we can continue to organize and achieve I think the final aspect that we can look at of course is is the new partnerships around 17 where it's no longer just that traditional model and I know here we've done a voluntary university review we started with a pilot a couple of schools have said they want to do VSRs voluntary school reviews so it is exciting how the VNR process gave birth to a VLR and now there's a VUR and it's exciting to see how civil society will continue to coordinate campaigns yeah I mean one of the models that we've been using as you know is a people's scorecard and I'd love to make that available to anyone else who'd like to pick that up and the idea of the people scorecard I mean so far it's been mainly used for a national level independent assessment but there's no reason why it couldn't be picked up by groups that want to apply the goals to their own context the idea is that you send out a survey on each of the goals to the stakeholders who are most relevant to you so it could be used at a local level it could be used by a community organization to assess their own impacts and as you say I mean this is what's so versatile about the goals is that they can be applied at so many different levels and actually I think you're right that the real transformation needs to happen closer to where people's everyday lives are so at the at the local and grassroots level that's where the change is really going to happen but it has to of course be facilitated by national governments that understand it and that open the doors and enable that transformation to happen well thank you so much and there's so much more we can say we'll definitely continue this conversation during this 2030 agenda time period of the next decade and we appreciate your time with us here in Cooper Union and until next time we get to meet in person thank you so much for continuing all of the work to make the world a better place mahalo thank you so much wonderful to be with you see you soon