 means divine intimacy radio. Today, we're going to be interviewing Abbot Phillip Anderson from Clear Creek Abbey, which I will not be able to say fast. But it has a beautiful history, fascinating history, and is the favorite abbey of many who love our monastic traditions in the church. And we'll be talking about a new CD. So hang out with us, and I hope you enjoy. After this show, we'll be jumping out over to spiritualdirection.com Facebook page to live stream another on questions and answers about the interior life. We'll be answering questions like I feel stuck in my spiritual growth, how does fasting play a role, that sort of thing. So I hope you can join us for both shows. But I know this one, in particular, you will enjoy. All right, so I need a timer. Timer. Stopwatch. OK, and your mark gets set. Go. This is Dan and Stephanie Burke. Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio, your radio haven of rest. Your hermitage of the heart. Your monastery of the mind, where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw on the wisdom of the saints, to help us navigate this very challenging life, to find the narrow way and to stay on it. That's what the show is about. That's what the Abelah Foundation is about. So we're very excited to speak with a monk, an abbot, who not only lives properly the understanding of what is a monastery of the mind, but he actually lives in a monastery. And the monastery is called Clear Creek Abbey. And we're grateful to have Abbott Philip Anderson on with us. Welcome, Abbott Philip. Glad to be here. It's a really amazing type of radio show, Divine Intimacy. It's quite a theme for a radio. He's on, OK. Go ahead and talk again, Abbott, real quickly. This is Father Philip Anderson. Can you hear me? Yeah, you're fine. It was on my side, I think. Say something one more time. I thought it was a remarkable sort of theme for a radio show, to have Divine Intimacy as your theme. OK, all right. So I'll just have to hold the button down. So we'll cut all of that out, and I'll say, we'll start with welcome, Abbott, again. And actually, we'll go to a bio, and then we'll say welcome, Abbott. OK, let's go back on your mark. It said go. So we're excited to have Abbott Philip Anderson on, and Stephanie's going to tell us a bit about this Abbott and something exciting that they're up to. OK, so Abbott Philip Anderson has been a Benedictine monk for 46 years, excuse me, 46, and was ordained. He looks like he's only been a monk for 26 years. It's the grace of prayer. 46 years and was ordained to the priesthood in 1984, along with 12 other monks, some of whom were American, some French. He helped found our Lady of Clear Creek Abbey in Northeastern Oklahoma in 1999. They recently produced a beautiful, just exquisite, new CD of Gregorian chant, which also helps us in the interior life in a very special way. So welcome, Abbott Anderson. Thank you for being with us. Glad to be here. Well, thank you so much, Abbott, for being on the show. I've always been fascinated with Clear Creek. I haven't been there, but when you travel among faithful Catholics and those who really love tradition, Clear Creek is going to be a part of that conversation in some way. Why is Clear Creek so special? Why does it capture the imagination of faithful Catholics all around, least here in the United States in my experience? Well, I don't know. I wonder myself. It's a mystery of God, and we're very blessed with vocations and a lot of friends. But it is unique in the sense that the Benedictine order has been present in America for a long time, doing a lot of work, mostly though with schools and a more active apostolate, whereas we're somewhat like trappists, we're contentment amongst our entirely, just the old rule, the ancient monastic life as our way and not apostolate. We don't do exterior apostolates. And it has a French sort of background, which is interesting because an awful lot of the menace history was through France, Italy and France. And I don't know, there's something special there, but we're just thanking God for it. Yeah, God be praised. You have a close friend of ours, Aurora Chartier. I think you have two of her sons in the monastery there, and she glows when she talks about them and you all. What is the life of a monk like? I mean, what does it look like on a daily basis? Well, there's a motto that sort of summarizes it is aura at labor. We pray and we work because the first monks learned that you can't really pray all day long, constantly, physically, it's not possible. And so they learn to vary their activities and the Benedictine rule picked up that wisdom. And so it's a very balanced day with work and prayer and study and some recreation, but prayer is the main focus, of course. Seven hours a day, we have seven times a day, we have prayer session at once at night and what we call the matins. So it's a day punctuated by prayer following the cosmic order of the sun. We touch with nature in that way that our day is kind of according to the hours of the day, which become mystical hours when you sanctify them by prayer. Beautiful, beautiful. Now, seven hours a day when, if there was a young man out there listening and thinking why that sounds fascinating, maybe I'm called to that, do you mean seven hours in duration or seven separate times in which you pray? Well, at seven different times a day we pray, it adds up to something like four hours, not seven hours, only four hours. Wonderful. And do you, just out of curiosity, we live, we're lay people, of course, we do pray the liturgy of the hours, we live at a retreat center and it's as well as the home of the Abelah Foundation. And we are seeking to live a life of constant prayer. Do you have any tips for what might be the secret to or secrets to how do you remain in prayer even when you're working and doing things that are not specifically just prayer by itself? Well, there are many secrets to this. There are many aspects that help, that monks learn little by little. One is that if you have the intention of serving God, let's say you're on a pilgrimage and you're walking to St. James, I could put it still up. If you have intention to be going there, even if your mind wanders off, you're still walking that way, you're still doing the thing, you're still, your intention is still moving forward. So whatever you're doing, if you have the intention to sanctify yourself and sanctify the world and serve God, well, it carries on even if you do like little children like we are, where our minds drift off. Another secret is to try to evangelize your distractions because you're going to have, as the monks have always had, a lot of distractions go into your mind instead of just trying to suppress them violently to gently lead yourself back to God and say, well, why was I thinking about that idea? Where was my mind wandering off and I could maybe find some link to God? Little by little, my distractions could become part of my prayer. My distractions become prayer once they find a certain focus on God, I guess you might say. Fascinating. That's really beautiful. I remember one time accidentally ending up in confession with Archbishop Shapu and it was years and years and years ago and I remember taking one of the items that I brought is I'm so distracted in prayer. And he said, has anybody ever taught you what to do with those distractions? And I said, no. And he said, take them and place them gently on the altar and leave them there and then go back to prayer. And it was so helpful to me to just gently not beat myself up but gently take them to the Lord, leave them with him and then go to prayer. Well, Abbot, I am a musician of my heart. I did get a vocal performance degree when I was in college and so I love music. It speaks to me, it draws me into prayer. What place does music play in your life there at the Abbey and in the life of the monks? Tell me a little bit about that and then about this extraordinary project that you did, this new CD called Rarate Celli. Well, that's a pretty vast subject. If you're a musician, you realize all the implications for our whole civilization and the quality of music determines a lot about a person's soul and whether their thoughts go and everything but it's just the experience of the church, St. Augustine wondered, should we keep music? Is that not a distraction? Is that not going to be a kind of idol or something that takes away from God? But he finally decided, no, it moves people and so it became part of the life of the church and the monks found that this is a good way to keep us focused in our psalmody. Music could even become a kind of idol for monks because if they record and they become somewhat famous or there's money involved, it could become a bad thing. So we have to watch out for that. It's never the primary focus has got himself and if we didn't sing at all, we just restarted the prayer as well. That would be okay. Although as one monk in France who was a famous choir director said, you really don't have the entire thought of the church. You don't have the right interpretation of the prayers of the church unless you have the music added. Gregorian Chant in particular adds an interpretation to the liturgical texts. It gives you a certain insight into what it's about. And so the music finally is at the service of the words of the text of holy scripture, the text of the music serves that it gives a kind of interpretation. It gives you something more but mostly monks are able to do that because others don't have that much time but there's a lot to the musical question really a lot. It's really beautiful. It adds a richness and a depth to it. If you're not a musician, even though most people can do Gregorian Chant because it's simple, but if you're not a musician you often miss the beauty and the richness of being able to sing and what that does, especially if you're singing to God. It's exquisite. Yeah. Well, your music, the Rorate Celi album, if you will, the Marian Sounds of Advent, what made you decide to create it? Is this your first? Is that true or no? No, that's not true. We recorded some years ago, maybe 10 years ago, a first CD, Etche Fiat, according on the theme of the Annunciation. And that we're going to reissue or make that available again pretty soon. The first one, the critics liked it. It just wasn't really distributed very much and it wouldn't get around as much. But Rorate Celi, we just thought Christmas is a good time to put out a recording because more people are likely to experience it and buy it or whatever. And we tried to find something that wasn't used already that was, and most people are not too familiar with the mass of the vigil of Christmas. I'm not talking about midnight mass, I'm talking about the day before Christmas. When some of these beautiful, you have parts of the repertory of Gregorian chant that are magnificent and no one knows them except monks. So we're trying to make some of these things better known that you wouldn't normally encounter even if you do Gregorian chant. Well, you're doing a beautiful job. I listen to chant every day. My longstanding favorite has been Hildegard von Bingen. Just love her work. But yours is quickly becoming a favorite. For those out there who are looking for the music that we're talking about, Rorate Celi, The Monks of Clear Creek, you can find that at Sophia Institute Press. I was very excited to see that you're working with Sophia because you will get very good distribution with that. Yes. Very good reach. But I've downloaded mine on iTunes and that's how I listen to my music. So make sure you do that, because when you do that, you're not only supporting or what I should say, doing something virtuous that will help you to grow spiritually by listening to chant, but also you're gonna be helping the work at Clear Creek Abbey, the holy life that they live for the sake of the church. So we get back from the break. We'll continue talking with Abbot Philip Anderson from Clear Creek Abbey about Gregorian chant and religious life. And so hang in there, we'll be right back. And your markets that go. This is Dan and Stephanie Burke with Divine Intimacy Radio, your radio haven of rest. We're back with Abbot Philip Anderson of Clear Creek Abbey. They produced really an extraordinary new album. There's second on with Gregorian chant. Is it Gregorian chant? Is that the right category? Yes, on this particular recording, we made a little sortie, a little try of polyphony because we have a friend who's a very gifted, Mark Donnelly, a very gifted composer. And this is new music, he old texts that are set to music. So a couple, but it's Gregorian chant is our real thing. That's for the divine office, we only use Gregorian chant, but the polyphony would be like for the months of Mary, some extra chance or something. But so there's a little bit of polyphonic with several notes at the same time. You see most of it is our focus is on Gregorian chant. You know what? I have a curiosity and I don't know if there is an answer, but I am a convert to Christianity. I'm Jewish by birth. And then I eventually, I became Southern Baptist and then eventually found my way into the Catholic church. And so I swapped out all of my secular music when I became an evangelical for Christian music. But one of the things I discovered when I would enter into prayer is even that good music with virtuous lyrics would disturb my prayer. And I wasn't able to enter into a more silent kind of prayer. But I've been surprised to discover, and also grateful that this kind of chant that you've produced in this album, Rorate Chaeli, doesn't in any way disturb my prayer. It never shows up and gets in the way. I don't know if you have any insight into why that is the case. Is that normal? I don't know if that's normal for everyone. I think it is because at the center of music the very word music has a root that I think is linked to the root of mute. It's like silence of God is sort of the point around which the rest of it revolves. And the closer a music is to the center of things, the divine intimacy, the less it distracts you. If you want an analogy, you think of Gregorian chant as the top of the mountain where water is very pure. It's not very magnificent. It's a small stream coming down. It's very, very pure. As you go down the mountain, if you've ever done camping, you can drink the water at the top of the mountain. There's no possibility of it being polluted. But as you go down the mountain, it gets more earth in it and it becomes a bigger stream. And then you get down to a river, whatever you get from, you get to Baroque music and you get to classical music. And then your popular music, it's like the muddy Mississippi. You get down to the Delta. It's really not very pure at all. It's very big and very popular. So Gregorian chant is like that. It's kind of the first in the Western world, the first music really was Gregorian chant, its melodies, diatonic scale, just the simple notes. And then God worked things so that from there, it moved into other forms, while still preserving Gregorian chant. It's kind of the first form of music in our Western world. It's really beautiful. What an amazing analogy. I'd never heard that. It's really gorgeous. And what's interesting is, we sometimes, we do chant our liturgy of the hours when we get together and pray at noon and evening prayer. And what I find fascinating is, even if you can't really sing, there's a blend that happens, even with those that are singing off key, that the Lord just kind of smooths out all the edges and it sounds very holy and very beautiful and very transcendent. So it's just a fascinating thing. Well, tell us a little bit about, so you have this burgeoning community, you're attracting a lot of young vocations. Tell us about what the young men who flock to your community are looking for. Well, I have seen and see more and more a kind of wave of interest in many countries, especially in America, for a bit of a more, I guess you might say a traditional orientation. There's a possible misunderstanding in all this because we don't want to delve into ideology that comes with kind of ism, but just a tendency towards more traditional forms. It's just an instinctive survival, I think, because they see dwindling communities and they see dwindling seminaries where there's no real religious fervor and they find that a lot of them are asking for the extraordinary form, we used to be called the extraordinary form of the older ruling missile. They want to be Catholic though. They want to be in the community of the Catholic Church. They don't want to be schismatics or anything, but they have a sense that this will work better where they see the habit, where they see Latin, which was actually called for by a Vatican too. And I don't think it can be stopped. There's a tendency here and they're finding that this works for them. So a lot of the candidates that come here, they want to know if we have this more traditional orientation because that's what they're looking for. It's a bit simplistic, but young people are a bit simplistic. They have to go on what they know and they don't know everything yet. So that's kind of the tendency, but in a good Catholic way, beautiful. Well, one of the things that strikes me is if you really want to be counter-cultural is enter fully into the fullness of the faith. And it's like nothing else out there as it should be. And I think our young people are tired. I think they're overburdened by social media. They're finding that it brings them no joy, that it brings them sorrow and pain. And it's not surprising to me that the young people long for beauty, it was what they were made for and the transcendent. And they're not finding it anywhere else. So I'm delighted that you exist there in that clear creek. We want to just make sure folks know a few resources and to know where to get the Rarati-Chaley CD. Can you put up the Jordan, the Clear Creek website, which I think they can get it through there's a store there. So it's clearcreekmonks.org. And of course they have other items. I think we buy a Benedictine medals from, we try to buy out their supply of Benedictine medals here. So, and all of the things that they produce, of course, are not, they don't just do it for no reason. They do it, of course, to evangelize the church and to help the church, but they also do it to meet their own needs. So it's really important that we support faithful monasteries and convents like this and purchase as much as we can directly from them, which really helps them to meet their needs and they have a lot of needs. They're not a small monastery. How many men do you have? Well, right now we have 63. Wow, that's amazing. That gives me hope for the future of the church. You know, I think people don't realize is that, to me, cloistered, contemplative life, the life like you live and we're a carmelite, but of course these realities are very, are very complimentary and important. But I actually think if places like Clear Creek disappeared, the church would disintegrate. I don't think people understand. I know that that's not possible in a certain sense, but I think that people do not understand typically how important the constant life of prayer and intercession is for the health of the church that happens at Clear Creek. Is this something, is this idea resonate with you or am I overstating the reality? Well, some people say it's like a lightning rod sometimes. We also, certain places in the church, they're there to fight and to take the brutal beatings of Satan and hell and that helps in that way. But positively, you have to have inspiration and God uses that individual saints and places too. And we say that really, if you get down to it, a mature Christian will understand that everyone needs to be a monk or a nun a little bit, but just have some who do it completely because it wouldn't work, but everybody should have this same orientation in a way, whether they're married or whatever. We have also what the Franciscans would call stored order, we call them oblates. And they're associated with the monastery and they come. We just had oblate day the other day and they come and hear conferences and they pray part of the divine office with us and they share in our prayers. And that's, so it's a way of enveloping a lot of people, really in Abbey. Yeah, I really believe that every lay person should find their tribe in a sense, meaning a directed spirituality that resonates with them. And if you wanna know a pure expression of Benedictine spirituality, clearcreekmonks.org, check that out. The other thing I wanted to let people know about, and of course you can find the CD Rorate Chili there. You can find it at EWTN's religious catalog at Sophia Institute Press. So it's available out in a bunch of places. God be praised. But also if you're, if this is sparking in you and you're a young man or you know a young man who's thinking about the priesthood, I wanna give you another resource, whether it's diocesan or religious priesthood, either way, it doesn't matter. Check out myhighcalling.com, myhighcalling.com. Not only will you find resources there to help you understand if this is your calling, but also you can end up, if you like, even talking with one of our staff there who helped young men discern the priesthood. I think we're working with a number of religious orders over 40 dioceses where we form men and prepare them for whether it be religious life or the diocesan priesthood through a year of formation and discernment. Before seminary. Before seminary. But regardless, I think no matter whether you go to the monastery, clearcreekmonks.org, to myhighcalling, the good thing is you just can't go wrong because all of us together, and I'll speak, I'll say with Abbott, Philip, and all that he's doing, we're all joined together for the health and the best that the church has to offer and the beautiful and glorious tradition has to offer. We're building the kingdom together as laypeople, as religious, we're all working together. So, Philip, Abbott, Philip, we're grateful for this new CD that you produce, Rarate Chaley, it can also be found on iTunes. Folks, go out there and buy it. Go to the clearcreekmonks.org website, make sure you support them because we need for the health and the preservation of the church and tradition and the holiness of the church. We need these monks, we need them to continue in their life and have all that they need to continue to pray for the church. Abbott, Philip, thank you so much for spending a little bit of time with us today. Thank God, thank God. Bless your wonderful endeavor. Amen, God bless you. Thank you, thank you. And then you have to do the outro, Steph. Oh. Steph, I forgot the outro. There you go, okay, here's the outro. Okay, no, you have to actually say it. I know. Okay, great. Until next time, may the God of peace make you perfect in holiness. May he preserve you whole and entire, spirit, soul and body, irreproachable at the coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ, amen. Amen, amen. Thanks again, Abbott. Thank you very much. Plenty to edit.