 Yeah, thank you very much Jonas Malotki for joining and Jonas von Malotki and yeah, we're here at the First Asia Summit starting with the next session. I would like to introduce Jonas quickly. Jonas holds a diploma in computer science and Japanese studies from University of Bonn. So with this connection between Europe and Asia. He's a perfect speaker here at the First Asia Summit and Jonas main focus topics where meter data and data quality as well as neural networks at his studies within Daimler. He held various leadership roles for central systems. He has a keen interest in new technologies and the open source movement. Currently, he's the CEO of Daimler Projects GmbH, a 100% subsidiary of Daimler with a focus on product data and VR slash AR technologies. For the Daimler Group, he was leading the blockchain activities from the technology perspective and was a member of the Hyperledger Governing Board. We had Brian here a few days ago, so that's a great connection again. And furthermore, Jonas is currently shaping the open source strategy for Daimler. So a lot of information already in your bio and we're looking forward to getting really deep insights now. So thank you and welcome very much Jonas von Malotki. Thank you, Mario. Thank you a lot. As I already joined a little bit by accident, the panel discussion, but it felt awfully familiar because actually we were at Daimler. We were with First Asia in 2017 and I will show you a little bit around what has been happening since then. As Mario already said, I'm currently the CEO of the Daimler Projects GmbH, which is a kind of special legal entity in Germany. What we do as a 100% subsidiary is a lot of tech and I have something here as well that I will try to share with you and try to invite you to be really part of that. And in 2017, we came to First Asia and said, yeah, you know, we are doing open source and want to engage. And you know, what Daimler does is build cars and trucks, essentially. And those, I mean, you cannot have those without any software nowadays. And that's why also we became a member of the Linux Foundation and said, yeah, okay, in January 2017, we joined the Automotive Grade Linux. We joined Hyperledger because we thought that with Blockchain, there's something really going on and we want to design the future of software and the future of data exchange there. And we're still a member of Hyperledger, yet, you know, the hype cycle took it a little bit that it was more difficult to stay on track. Still, we are doing a lot with that and we are still on the Forbes 50 list with the whole blockchain, Forbes 50 blockchain list. And then we came in 2017 to First Asia and saying, yeah, you know, we are going to do more in FOS. And we were thrilled really to engage in those activities and really wanted to make a difference and really wanted to dive into that. And we had a big program set up, so to speak, where in this company we wanted to really make it happen that we have access to open source and also going to contribute to open source. My last slide there at this time was, yeah, you know, big things you develop engineered in foundation. And if you if you think about big companies, global enterprises like Daimler with a lot of history as well, then it's always good to look at that that good things will take a while. So the question is, where are we now? Are we there yet? And why is this actually taking so long? And yeah, maybe maybe a view of how you could see how the open source development is going on into big into big companies. Just a glimpse of it into into the view. Yeah, first off all, I mean, the companies, big companies are by default complex already. We have a long history. We have a lot of processes there already. So we have to navigate through it. And actually, it's not like the open source world in itself. It's not very complex. Because if you think about how many different license types are there, and how different kinds of obligations are also put to that, that's not an easy task. I think we have over 1000 licenses documented in our license charts and and instruction specific instruction how to deal with those licenses and and what you have to oblige to. I mean, it's pretty obvious. If you have any kind of permissive license, then you're usually a little bit more on the easy side. If you have a copy left license, then usually it's a little bit more complicated to go through that. And you have to really think about hard in a legal sense yet also in an engineering sense how to really integrate it into a product or so. Yeah. So this really also is one of the parts there. It also adds to these to the things that you have to check and have to go through and then of course on on certain areas of the of the world. The whole pattern stuff is really something. Since we are a global company, patterns are always a thing of concern, and we have to see how do we actually deal with that. And especially if you combine software and hardware in a product, usually also patterns get to to a certain degree quite the essence of what you're doing. Yeah. So combining that is already complexity and not so easy. Then you you start thinking about, OK, what kind of tooling will you also have? So how do you can how can you actually change? And how can you actually be sure that the right stuff you're doing and that you have a certain license compliance, for instance. And you you know that you fulfill the obligations and everything. So that is a common common problem. So you start to think about how can you can you actually do it? Then further on, certainly from a company coming from intellectual property rights and protecting vehicle and protecting also the intellectual property that comes with it. There's a lot of thing you have to do in a company with regards to mindset. You really have to be to be an advocate for what you stand for. Because the first reaction would always be, I mean, it's good if you use open source. That's super good because there's no problem. That's that's good. We get something. Yeah. But then you try to talk to them. Yeah. How would it be if we wanted to also open source stuff from ourselves? Then usually it's like, why would I give away something? Yeah. And we try to came up with with this idea, share something to get so bad back so much more. And also this mindset of things is, why should I take something and give something back into the community? I mean, we just find those kinds of prejudices in the company. And the question is, why should I give something back now? And we had Greg also over there and he was saying something which was really good. Everybody just open source in a selfish way and yet it helps to really progress the whole thing. And we try to really explain and you have to explain to management and to also engineers why it makes sense to not do a fork and keep everything for yourself, but really do a fork and give something upstream again. But then as you know, it's a big company. So you have laws and regulations and then you have to try to find stuff like how do we deal actually with certain parts there? I could give you an insight, for instance, how do you deal? And there was also something with GitHub going on and sanction lists, for instance, and that is something big companies always have to check for. So how do we make sure that we actually don't give any contribution into an area where it's not allowed? And how can we make sure that the engineer does it in the right way? And so on. So that is something which as to the overall complexity, if it's only a small local problem, that's usually not a big thing. But if it's in the world, it's not so easy to actually make that sure. And I think actually open source in a way is a big enabler for that. We also saw all those kind of trade wars between China and the U.S. And a few actually said that if we open source this and this, then we don't have a problem in that. So there was already a little bit of going of this idea is going on. And then as you know, it's a big company. So you have to go to scale as we set into in the beginning of our journey. It really was was only a few people starting only three people out of the IT department out of the R&D so research and development department and out of legal to really set this whole thing up. But once you open the door, then you have up until 50,000 people essentially or could be doing open source. So you really have to think about how do I do it that we have something that it actually scales. And that was, to be honest, a task we kind of underestimated to build everything this way that everything works. I have one one small anecdote there. I always said, you know, if in a big company, I don't know anything about text regulations. I don't know anything about this and this. And in a big company, you always have somebody of something you don't know who made his PhD about that. And so certainly you have to talk with a lot of people. And this was really like a round throughout the whole company to find out where do we have to stick to which kind of laws, regulations, rules and so on and even make it possible to scale. So what happened? We surely came up with building blocks there. First of all, you need a little bit of view in a big organization. What is the organization of that kind of endeavor you're doing? What are the roles in there? What is the accountability of the role and so on? Who decides on what, where do you do something? And even describing a role within an enterprise, for instance, what has a maintainer to do? If you publish an open source, whether it be on your on your GitHub page or in an organization, you always have to think about, yeah, you need a maintainer. And this kind of roles, they have to be described for big enterprise or else nobody knows what to do there. Certainly, I mean, fortunately, there are there are already good descriptions there and you can just take them, but you have to internalize them for what kind of also capacity time is behind that and so on. Then you certainly need processes. How do you actually do an open source publishing? How do you actually do an an merge request? And how do you actually do something in a software? You want to you want to influence or you want to really do something in there because you need it and you need this kind of particular feature in that. Then, as you as already mentioned, you need the platforms and tooling and also the platforms that that help you and really do something. And actually, the biggest surprise for us was that we with our open source endeavor, we also build up our inner source and and try to make people learn that sharing is a good thing. And that there's a lot of benefit coming from that. And we build up an open source and source repository system. And we for the first year in 2019 or in 2018. No, in 2019, actually, we thought that we will maybe reach 5000 developers there. And actually, we reached in, I think, not only eight months, we reached around over 10,000. So this was really was something that surprised us and also how many people were starting to really develop stuff in inner source. Yet, we really would also like them to open more up so that the inner source could happen because what actually happened is that a lot of people put repositories there and help them in private. And that's not how inner source works. So, but you can see that also tools like that and we also had some tools for license compliance, for instance. And actually, with all those projects on that, we immediately had some problems in the way it scales because it took just too long. And we had to double up on multiple instances so that people could work to bring all that together and to the people because that is a learning endeavor. You need to train us. And we came up with the idea of, let's do something which is called the driver's license. And people have to have to finish a driver's license for contributions, for instance, or have to finish a driver's license for being a maintainer so that we actually know that all the rules that I elaborated on earlier have been really appalled to and they know how to navigate through this complex word there. Yeah, essentially that's it. So how successful did it become? Unfortunately, we made it. Our first open source release was a small library called Vehicle Information Service. You can see that here on our GitHub page, GitHub.com slash Daimler. I always said this is a small step for the developer, but a big step for this company because we really had to try out everything there, our whole processes and so on. We sat together in a room at the time it was still possible and thought of, did we do all the steps right there? And then we had the guy, Marcel, over who's publishing this and the whole team doing the whole processes was sitting there and looking over his shoulder. Does it really work? Because it was the first test, the first pilot to read right out. Nowadays, I think we have around 20 different projects there. It's a little bit more in terms of repositories, yet it's only a small endeavor there. We have accumulated, I counted that two weeks ago, around 270 stars. So that's really in the beginning still. We are just entering that space, but I'm really happy that we made it and that we also built the processes to really have the open source releases there. And here's one thing I really wanted to share with you. I really wanted to share with you about what we are doing with Daimler projects. We have built a learning platform that combines learning and knowledge acquisition, learning and really looking up knowledge you already have. And certainly it's something that we wanted to be intuitive and have a little bit of gamification in there. And because we usually also, in my company, Daimler projects, we help other departments to learn new stuff, made it with augmented reality or a plane. How do you do this kind of system? How do you do that? As I became the CEO, I really asked, can we, that's a good thing. Can we actually open source that? Because our business model is not using that kind of license fees there. And we said, yeah, why not? We can actually open source that. And after a few weeks, we came up with a plan and we said, yeah, that's a good thing. Let's put it on to GitHub. You can find it there. It's built on, as always, on open source components in this time of WordPress. And we put a lot of materials and stuff around there you have to have for learning management systems. So how can you build also academy stuff? How can you be, how can you build a course, for instance? And if you build that as a course, you also have the possibility to later on have a person who was like, I learned that one time, where can I find it again? And that was something, I think, which is different in a term that most learning systems, you have this course and just run through it. And then after that, if you want to look up something of that course, it's really difficult to find it again. And that's why it has here the academy and the part where you also can look up the stuff. And find us on GitHub. It's an humble invitation for collaboration. I think it's a good thing and we really would appreciate also a lot of comments there and really would also be happy if you would like to engage there. And we would also be open in a sense to at some point give it over if it's incubated there to Eclipse Foundation or Linux Foundation, wherever it may fit best. So that is also good. So you're seeing we are making progress there, but that's not all. Not only publishing is one of the parts there, but we also have to engage with a developer. And if you want to see how we do that, we have Wolfgang here over here at the FOSPEC talking about the Daimler TSS, which is another subsidiary with a lot of developers in there about the FOS manifesto and out of the open source program office, which is called FOS COC, so center of competence for us. We immediately liked the idea and elevated this manifesto to the whole Daimler world. So this is really a good thing because I think management is one thing, but also empowering the developer that it's actually allowed. You can do that. Please do it. Please also before you write something, please look it up in the open source world if there's already something that you can just reuse. And if you find something and you want to fix something, please give it back to the community because in the end it's really helping us all. So that's kind of stuff we also did. And we are trying to push that through the organization for the whole company and encourage certainly the usage, engage in the right communities. I think now we have a good contribution record in terms of Kubernetes and the CNCF. I think we have over 30 years, 30 years of merge requests that were accepted there and it shows you that out of this really big program, the first runners really come out and do something in the open source world and that really is a thing that definitely makes me proud that out of this big enterprise with this kind of obstacles we really didn't foresee in the beginning making to make more and more sense that it actually happens. And that's one of the questions usually we get asked, why does it take so long? And I hope I could give you a little bit of insight in what a learning journey in a big company looks like and how much you have to do to really be in this open source space. And so in the end I can only tell you, may the FOS be with you and that's what I always end with my FOS talks in Daimler to really make people understand that this is a thing which is not going to go away and we really want to embrace it. And I think maybe we have a little bit of time for questions. Okay, thank you very much Jonas and yes indeed we have some questions and everyone please add additional questions to the shared notes. So the first question is this, the learning platform that you released on GitHub I don't know if it's on GitHub or on your own platform so the learning platform that you released, do people in the community use it or contribute to it? Could you please share the link here? Yeah, the link is just github.com slash Daimler and then you'll find the DP learning platform. We will have to find a new name for it because that's not very inventive actually yet it's built on WordPress. I don't think that we have any community contribution yet and we really have to also engage in this kind of development in the open process that we really make it happen. That is something we are currently doing but I'm really happy that we already made it through the whole process to really open source it and would really like because that's a problem a lot other companies and other organizations as well have in conveying and with COVID-19 the whole situation here also at home and learning remotely has become a lot more present than it has in the times before. Okay, and the next question, what are the next steps? What's the roadmap? Yeah, the roadmap definitely is really bring it to the organization we have the processes, we have the tools and so on but now it really comes up to enabling developers getting developers also to know that they are allowed to do it getting everybody in there that they are really also keen on doing it because in the beginning usually for a developer sometimes it really looks hard to do that because we have a big wiki where the process is described for instance and the developer first has to look in there and see there is a normative section what is the rules then there is definitely a how-to section and how to really do a merge request with all the stuff within GitHub for instance and that should help but it's a lot about advocacy at the current time so really we try to advocate for the stuff that you can do it and then try to learn again from the developer what went well, what isn't going so well so that we have the possibility to really also improve the processes because no process you start is from the beginning right perfect that doesn't work this way so we really also have to listen there and that's where we currently at I would say we have a few leaders in there they are doing now it's their daily work to do a merge request with Kubernetes or doing for instance working in the open on their own open source project but that's only a few, only a fraction, a small fraction of the people we actually have working with software and we really want to enable everybody and that just takes some time Wow everybody that's a big goal so the next question here do you have any coding programs that students can participate in and that's Roman asking Yeah I put this kind of item on a slide and it's on our roadmap at some point the question is when so if you would like to engage that's definitely something we would like and yeah we don't have a structured program yet but we are thinking about it and how to build it up for instance we joined the GitHub sponsoring program and I think we are one of those first who made it possible from the company side and made it into an announcement with NAT that's cool and that's not structured so that's essentially giving out money to developers in areas where we think it makes sense for us but for students as I said it's on the roadmap we don't have it yet if you are happy to do it then just drop me some emails I think that might be an overlap that we could also join up I don't know what you are exactly doing with GitHub but I know that we are talking with GitHub all the time because they are asking us how to do developer programs and they are running one in the US and the next one will be now in India so it seems to me a bit that we could also maybe collaborate directly with each other so we would definitely be interested in and yeah we have the Cotehe program so anyone who is watching Cotehe program this year will run still until the month of June so I hope it's okay to make a bit of advertising here in your session for that absolutely, we want everybody to engage okay great so then maybe I also jump quickly to question number 5 because the question here is related how can developers in Asia join your projects do you have any contacts in Asia? yeah we do have contacts in Asia we have a big company in China actually we have also in Japan but there is less of development I think China is a little bit bigger in terms of development also people in Malaysia and so on so maybe there is something I could find that out I don't have that with me currently but the best place to really engage with the open source projects we have is our current github page github.com which we try to really bring all the even subsidiaries that we have within the Daimler group together on one central point so some of the things there might be even out of Asia so that might be a good way to start and if there is not maybe you can contact me so we don't have time anymore there are more questions coming up and one question is for example can you share a bit about the open source release process at Daimler I think that would be an entire session probably to discuss this topic but I don't know if you have any resources or links that you could share here on the shared notes that we really engaged and maybe have future sessions on the topic that was just mentioned by Stephanie Wong so Jonas, it's always a pleasure to welcome you at our events and good to see you again and it's really exciting to see the next steps of Daimler that you took like your first engagement with for example the first Asia community was great and we see things are coming out of it and you continue to work in the free and open source software community maybe even hardware, I don't know hardware was a big topic here at the summit so definitely we are looking forward to hear about your steps here next and in the future thank you very much for joining us it was a pleasure thank you always a pleasure to be here and it's super familiar to be here in Asia even virtually I really had a little bit the feeling that we were so that's really great and I hope you have a good day and my commitment you can see by looking at the time so it's seven o'clock in the morning in Germany and Saturdays that would be something which usually would yield an index out of bounds exception with my clock and Hovuk just came into the broadcasting room here and wanted to say hello Hi I want to ask you if you can say a few Japanese words to our Japanese viewers Good morning I'm from Germany and my name is Rofi Nice to meet you please Perfect, thank you Please open source Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you