 and welcome to Lillian's Vegan World. I'm your host Lillian Cumick with Think Tech Hawaii. Today's show is Food and Wine Game Changers 2021 Vegan Cheese Maker Meal Koshina in Top 25. I'd like to welcome my regular guest back onto the show, Dr. Grace Chen O'Neill. Aloha Grace, welcome to the show. Aloha everyone. Nice to be back on the show. Awesome to have you on the show, you know, with your insight and medical view of how things work on a plant-based diet. So Dr. O'Neill, what are your thoughts? Top 25, Meal Koshina. Let's talk about that very quickly. It's kind of exciting, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's great. Meal Koshina, I mean, she's wonderful. I've seen her once living in California. I went to one of her classes and I bought that book. I don't even know if it was the first book, but she made a book on cheese and I tried to replicate all the things she did very simply in class. Somehow my creations were not quite as good. It takes some practice, but I still have that book and I still want to draw more things. So I mean, she's amazing. And then she came to speak in Hawaii as well for us and she was so generous. She brought all of, you know, samples of her cheeses to Vegetarian Society and it was a wonderful talk. She's very entertaining and she was singing and everything. She likes to sing. She's just great. That's amazing. I didn't know that she came to speak at the Vegetarian Hawaiian Society. Well, I actually, when I started looking into her, I didn't realize that she was a jazz singer in Tokyo, apart from being an American chef cookbook author of the groundbreaking book that you just mentioned, which is called Artisan Vegan Cheese. So for anyone out there who's looking to learn more about how to make plant-based cheeses, this book really is a game changer, literally. So Artisan Vegan Cheese by Mio Koshina. She's also an animal sanctuary founder and owner of dairy-free brand Mio Koshina Creamery. And you just spoke about her cheeses. They are actually available everywhere, including lots of supermarkets in Hawaii. Down to Earth carries their cheeses. So if you want to support local, definitely go to Down to Earth. They have a great selection. I actually just tried one of her, I think it was a cashew-based cheese wheel with herbs. And I noticed that she has a really, she gets like one of her techniques in making, cheese making is culturing and aging. So her cheeses get a nice kind of tang in them that is very unusual. And I haven't really been able to develop that in my home making, my cheese, cheese making at home. So this is something, yeah, definitely give her cheeses a try. I recommend some of the wheels. They go for about $10 each, but very, very worth it. So yeah, grab some of her cheeses when you can. Mio Koshina was quoted to say, founded on the principle of compassion for all living beings, we are on a mission to craft dairy products that are green and plant-based and friendly for the environment, good for the environment. So she's really on a mission to move the vegan or the non-dairy movement ahead. And she's really on the cutting edge. So congratulations to her. Yeah, she's amazing. And the company has done so well. I'm so happy about it. It's just wonderful. She's a wonderful person. Yep. So here's the question I have for you, Dr. O'Neill. When it comes to game changes in the vegan world, who are making a difference out there, who are your top three? You mean in Hawaii or just the general? In general, first. Okay. In general, I really think that King Phoenix is great. I think he made a great stand. And, you know, he did it in a very public, I think, was it at the Academy Awards? He said something. And I think that was very, very courageous of him to say something, because there's so many people who are not vegan in that kind of environment. And you don't know what would happen if you're going to be attacked. But, you know, he's made a great stand. I know that he did do a movie this year, too, about farm animals. And I think it's great, you know? No, I was just going to say, I actually did see a clip from his new documentary. And the clip that was going around on social media is very, very intense and very shocking. It was a baby calf being dragged away from its mother after birth. And it's just, it's just so mind-boggling how people allow this to happen. So this is definitely, I think this documentary is going to be as, you know, as interesting and controversial as some of the other documentaries out there that really can, I think, have the power to not to turn people vegan, but at least to make people think about, you know, what they're supporting every time they eat animal products. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, people don't realize that animals suffer just as humans can. They don't realize, you know, they think that animals were meant to, you know, provide milk for people. And they don't realize that isn't the true purpose of an animal. I know. So how do you answer people that say they love animals while they're drinking a milkshake or eating a burger or a steak? I must say I used to be one of those people too. I used to be addicted to dairy and I used to drink milk, but I didn't eat, you know, animals for the longest time. But when I first, you know, stopped eating meat and fish and everything, I was still drinking milk for a long time because I thought that, well, you know, it's not killing them. And so I think there's a lot of people out there who think like that, but they don't realize how damaging it is, how damaging dairy is for animals. We are going to get into that in the second half of the show because I do want your medical opinion on really what dairy does to the human body. But before that, I'd like to go back to the top game changes in the world. You did mention Joaquin Phoenix. Who else is on your list? Well, definitely Neil Barnard. He's done so much with his organizations, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. They do a lot of research on what is the best kind of diet for curing certain diseases like diabetes and everything. And so he's done a lot of research. They've helped a lot of people. Also they have this program that they go to Native American communities and they also are liaisoning with different places. I don't know if that's a word. They're, you know, they're in China, they're in other foreign countries, China promote plant-based diet because it's better for your health. So I think he's done a lot of great research. And also he's written a lot of great books. You know, he did one recently on hormones. He has another one about the cheese trap and the, you know, the dangers of cheese. And of course my other person would be Michael Greger. He's just a wealth of knowledge. He's constantly doing research. He's such a hard worker. I mean, I met him, you know, I've met him several times, but the last time he came, I remember I asked him, you know, if he wanted to go out on a boat for a sale and he's like, Oh no, you know, it doesn't have internet. And he's just so hardworking. It's like, he has to be doing something at all times, you know, related to, you know, just uttering the world, you know, and helping people with their health. So I really admire that. That is so incredible. And for anyone who's not familiar with these two amazing game changes, go, just go online and Google them. I know Dr. Neil Bernard has a really great YouTube channel. I'm sorry. I don't remember the name of it, but you will find some of his videos. They're very, very informative. And again, he also has written some really excellent books too. So Grace, what about, let's go to Hawaii game changes. Who's on your top three in the list of game changes here? You know, that's so hard. There's so many in Hawaii too, as well as, you know, in the United States, I would say, I mean, somebody that people don't really realize the work is Lorraine Sakaguchi, who you had on the show with me, you know, a few months ago, she's just amazing. She's the vegetarian side of Hawaii president. And she does so much work for the organization. And she's, you know, she's the president for, you know, I think over 10 years now. And it's, you know, it's a very, very large task. People don't realize what goes on, you know, behind the organization and, you know, constantly very hardworking. And another person would be Ruth Hydrick. She is an amazing woman. She had breast cancer. And she, you know, got over it by, you know, after treatment, she had done on a plant-based diet. And she essentially cured herself with a plant based diet. And then she went on to win so many triathlons, Ironmans. And she's just an amazing woman. I mean, she's in her 80s right now. She's still working very hard. After what a plant-based diet has done for her, she's trying to, you know, spread the word about what a plant-based diet can do for other people. And so she's also amazing as well. And then, you know, there's, gosh, there's a bunch of other people too. I mean, you know, the woman at Aloha Animal Sanctuary and the volunteers there, I mean, they're kind of the younger generation. And, you know, they started the sanctuary by themselves. It's completely volunteer fun. You know, Laura Leia, Leilani Farm Sanctuary, she's also trying to, you know, kind of educate the public about how farm animals are normally raised, you know. And she does very nice tours. I've been on her tours. And, you know, she lets people kind of, you know, touch the farm animals and, you know, in a nice way, just kind of connect with them. And so they realize that, you know, farm animals, they also have feelings. They're, you know, they're not just objects to be used. So all these people are doing great work. I mean, there's so many people, you know, there's all these young chefs, you know, there's chefs like you, Lillian, other young chefs like, you know, Alyssa Smith of Fresh Over Fresh. And, you know, the woman who started Isle of Knowledge, she's great too. She's been trying to help Native Hawaiians because Native Hawaiians have a, you know, very high rate of diabetes and, you know, they give out free meals every month. And like for one person to try to, you know, change their diet so it's plant-based and so they can also, you know, have a, have better health. So I mean, it's just amazing. All these people we have here. Yeah. You brought up so many awesome people. And I do want to say back at you, Dr. O'Neill, I choose you as well for a game changer in Hawaii. If you haven't seen Dr. O'Neill's YouTube channel, can you please let the viewers know where they can find you on YouTube? It's called Graceful Living 365. And you interviewed, go ahead. Yourself. Yeah, you guys have to check it out. It was an awesome episode and we did the ultimate cheese sauce and then Lillian also told us about how she got started in another episode. So it's definitely you guys have to check that episode. I was very good and I've done the ultimate cheese sauce so many times. It's so addictive. It's not bad for you. So, I mean, it's a wonderful thing. It's so good. Like she says, it takes five minutes to do or less. So I love that. I love things that are easy. You know, you don't have to spend like two hours in the kitchen toiling away. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm so glad you tried that cheese sauce. So for any of the viewers watching, do check out Dr. O'Neill's YouTube channel. She interviews a lot of amazing people and obviously talks about the plant-based diet. So Dr. O'Neill, we are going to take a quick break for some messages and be back soon. For all the viewers, stay tuned. We'll be right back. I'm Mitch Ewan, host of Hawaii, the state of clean energy on Think Tech Hawaii. Hawaii, the state of clean energy is about following the many clean energy initiatives in Hawaii. Hawaii, the state of clean energy appears weekly on Think Tech Hawaii at 4pm on Wednesdays. Thank you so much for watching our show. We'll see you then. Aloha. Welcome back to Lillian's Vegan World. I'm your host, Lillian Cumick. I am also author of the newly released plant-based cooking cookbook, Hawaii, a Vegan Paradise. This was released in last year of 2020 in November. And I'm so excited to tell you that my second book is coming out, Tasting Hawaii Vegan Style. That should be coming out in the fall, hopefully before the holidays. So do look out for it. Dr. O'Neill, welcome back to the show. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's always a pleasure having you on. I have to tell you who I had at my dining table yesterday. A very, very interesting guest arrived and it was a surprise, actually. Take a look at this first slide. It's of the incredible, you know, one of Hawaii's famous chefs. And I was just so amazed to meet Sam Choi. Not only meet him, I didn't know he was turning up to a dinner party that I had last night. So I actually cooked a full vegan seven course meal for him. And it was so awesome talking to him. It was actually his first vegan course. So very exciting. And here's what he had to say. Here's a little video clip that we filmed last night. Take a look at this. Guess who came to dinner tonight? Thank you, Chef. What a great meal right in your home, in your kitchen. Our friends, unbelievable. Excellent, excellent, excellent. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so honored. Aloha. So that was Sam Choi talking about how excellent the vegan meal was. Isn't that awesome? I mean, this is the chef that is obviously not vegan. So it just. Well, I hope he tries out more. That's awesome. You know, that's great. Yes. Well, hopefully we've opened Pandora's box. And I think that's what really it is. You know, some people who say I could never go vegan. I hate vegan food. Really, I don't think I've tried much vegan food. So if I can suggest to any of the viewers who are interested in trying food, just go out there and try it. Go to a vegan restaurant. Go to even like some place like Down to Earth or a supermarket. Grab some ready made vegan dishes and try them. Just start. You know, I do want to get back to Dr. O'Neill. Today's topic, which is meal, of course, you know, getting into the top 25. She happens to be one of the best cheese makers, vegan cheese makers in the world. So let's talk about dairy. What's what are your thoughts, Dr. Grace? You have some slides for us. Tell us about what dairy really does to the human body. Well, I'm going to go through the slides. I have not word for word, but the first one I want to go through is the dangerous dairy. And I kind of talk about the contents of dairy in this one. So the main problem with dairy is it has a very high amount of saturated fat. So in addition to saturated fat, I mean, it has cholesterol. And those are two things that are, you know, the biggest reason for people to have heart disease and stroke. So I wrote here, one serving of whole milk contains 20% of your recommended daily allowance of saturated fat. And pizza and cheese are actually the largest sources of saturated fat in the American diet. And most cheese is about 70% fat. I mean, people probably don't realize that, you know. So cholesterol, too, one serving of milk contains 24 milligrams of cholesterol and one ounce of cheese contains 30 milligrams. That's a lot of cholesterol. You're just getting from dairy. I mean, people think, well, I can avoid dairy. I mean, I can avoid and I won't have a lot of cholesterol in my diet. But actually, if you're still eating dairy, you're still getting a lot of cholesterol. And then in addition to that, there's other things that people don't quite know about, like lack, well, lack just people know about, but pus in the milk, apparently, you know, just from all these cows being infected, from having all these, you know, these pumps around them to get out the milk all the time and being in close crowded conditions, they constantly have this infection of their breast called mastitis, which humans can get to. But, you know, because of the, you know, they're secreting pus from their breasts that is actually secreted into the milk. And you can't really there because it's white. So unfortunately, the FDA allows about 750 million pus cells for every liter of milk. So you're getting pus. You're drinking pus when you're drinking milk. I mean, that is not a very good thought for me. Not at all. And then that is, that is really quite off-putting and sad. Yeah, I'm very, very sad. Yeah. I'll tell you, you know, I work in the emergency room and a lot of people come in with abscesses. We drain pus from the abscesses. And when we cut it open in these abscesses, the comes out and it has this terrible smell. It's just, just terrible smell. And also depends on where it comes from, you know, it can smell more terrible in certain places than others. But, you know, I wouldn't want to take anything like that into my body. And because these cows are constantly infected, they're constantly on antibiotics. So when they are taking antibiotics, if you are drinking their milk, you are also taking the antibiotics. So these antibiotics given to these cows causes the bacterias eventually because they constantly give these antibiotics. Like most of the antibiotics in the United States is actually given to farm animals and not even used on humans. So because they're constantly on these antibiotics, these bacteria, antibiotics are supposed to kill, eventually mutate and then they get resistant to these antibiotics. And so it causes a lot of antibiotic resistance, which is a major problem we have. This is why we have these huge superbugs and we can't find any antibiotics that work to kill superbugs. I mean, this happens in all animal farming, unfortunately. Wow. Should I go on? Yeah, I'm just, I'm actually, no, I'm just taking this all in. This is truly fascinating. I don't think people know that this is what they're putting into their bodies. And you know that saying you are what you eat? I think, I think you really need to take all of this information to heart here. Please do carry on. Okay, so in addition to that, you know, people don't think about all the hormones. You know, I work with a lot of men and, you know, I'm friends with some men and, you know, all these men drinking milk. So they don't realize that, you know, milk has a ton of estrogen and gesturum because this is, you know, a lactating cow that was just pregnant and they constantly keep these cows pregnant and lactating. So, you know, they have a ton of hormones in their body and those hormones are secreted in the milk. So these men and even little boys drinking milk, it's suppressing their testosterone. So people don't quite realize that and they're afraid of eating soy because of the estrogen, but soy has phytoestrogen. It's not anything, I mean, it's not anywhere near as bad as having the estrogen from another mammal. So I mean, not only that, but you know, I see a lot of, you know, in the emergency room lately, I've seen a lot of girls menstruating very, very early. So there's this problem of precocious puberty, you know, and I think that's honestly, I think it's because there's so much hormones in the milk and so they're being constantly, you know, in addition to their own hormones, they're taking in dairy and even, you know, when they're eating meat into that, that has the hormones as well, right? But people drink a ton of dairy and don't realize how much hormones, especially the dairy has because, you know, it's these lactating cows that have high levels of hormones. So, you know, taking all those hormones makes them mature earlier. And so, I mean, that's not really good to have a nine-year, I mean, I've seen nine-year-old girls that already have their periods. So, I mean, that's, it's kind of tough when you're nine years old and you have your period, you know, it's not easy. I can imagine an older person is preventable. Yeah, I mean, it's all preventable. You know, it's amazing this, this kind of stuff. And I mean, I don't know if you, there's, there's even more things that are upsetting. Please go on. Go on. So, I mean, there's also an increased risk of cancer. And, you know, there's certain things that people don't realize are milk. I mean, there's casein, there's whey. And you'll see a lot of stuff over the counter, like these protein shakes with whey. But actually, unfortunately, whey is a cancer cell proliferation promoting factor and it up regulates a growth enzyme called TOR. So what TOR does is, you know, when there are cancer cells, because it's a growth enzyme, it kind of stimulates the growth of these cancer cells and allows them to multiply, you know. And that's why they think that these things like casein and whey are more likely to cause cancer. You know, people who, you know, drink more milk are more likely to get prostate cancer, women who drink more milk are more likely to get breast cancer or ovarian cancer, you know. And it's also that constant intake of hormones as well. Isn't that amazing? Because you see things like whey in capital letters, bold letters, like just plastered all over products. And yet it's actually not good for you. I know. It's terrible. And people don't know any better. I mean, that's the problem. People, they don't know any better because there's a lot of awesome advertising. And then, I mean, gosh, there's so many things. But, you know, in addition to this saturated fat and cholesterol, there's a ton of trans fats and milks. I mean, 50% of the intake of trans fat in America comes from dairy and trans fat raises your bad cholesterol lowers your good cholesterol. That's definitely not a good thing either. And then you have the high amount of sodium in cheese that people don't realize and a lot of people have sodium dependent high blood pressure, right? So they're eating cheese. They don't realize these are hidden. I mean, it's just like in meat. There's a ton of salt they use to preserve things. And so, you know, they don't realize they're intaking things that they're buying and they're thinking, well, I'm not adding salt. You know, I'm not eating processed food, but they use that salt to preserve the food. So they're intaking that and they don't realize it. And that's maybe bringing up their blood pressure as well. Yeah. And then when it comes to things like cheese, you really just eat like a block of cheese. You're eating it with white bread on what we call a pizza. Then you've got the sodium in the sauce as well, or you're adding it to, you know, other ingredients that are just like really pumping up that sodium level. So gosh, again, all of this can be avoided if you choose plant-based dairy options. Yeah. I mean, it's just amazing. And then there's the hidden things that people don't realize. I mean, there's these persistent organic pollutants, you know? So there's these contaminants and milk fat is among the highest dietary source of exposure for these. And these include things like dioxins, pesticides, polychlorinated biphenyls, or PCBs, melamine, aflatoxins. So these all concentrate in animal fat. And as you know, as things go up the food chain or whatever, things concentrate and their concentration gets larger. It's just like when you eat up the food chain, just as if you were eating an apex predator like a shark versus, you know, something that's like a little tiny fish, you're not going to get as many toxins eating the little tiny fish as you do the apex predator. So this is the problem when you eat higher up in the food chain. Oh my God, there's so much to, I feel like we could do a part two of this, to be honest, because we are actually running out of time. But Dr. Anil, just before we end this show, can you please give a final word to viewers? Anything that you want to say about this whole dairy catastrophe? Well, dairy is not good for you. I mean, the milk companies, they will say that you need calcium. But even if you get a lot of calcium and dairy, it hasn't really been shown to help people prevent fractures. So you're not really gaining anything extra with dairy by getting extra calcium because you still, you get all these other problems like the persistent organic pollutants, the increased risk for cancer, the increased saturated fat, trans fat, cholesterol, which increases your risk for metabolic syndrome like diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol. And you know, you're really harming your body when you take in something like that. And there's so many alternatives these days, you don't have to. You don't have, if you crave milk, there's so many other alternatives. So please look for an alternative for your health. Thank you so much, Dr. Anil. This has been a fascinating show, I must say. And I thank you for your time and look forward to seeing you again. To all the viewers, thank you for joining in. My final note would be cow's milk. You don't need it like you don't need monkey milk, cat milk, or dog milk. Having said that, I look forward to seeing you all on another episode of Lillian's Vegan World, Take Care and Aloha.