 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me always is my new apparently constant co-host up see and Tom didn't mute his computer No, see hold on stop You can't mute a video before it goes live and it's delayed And so when I don't have a microphone, that's a problem. So I apologize everybody We are I am doing this show on the road and the consequence of that is weird setting And uh background noise. I apologize That's right as always we bring you only the most professional show on the internet about age of sigmar That's what we're here for folks nothing but constant and unending professionalism That's what we do here. It's top quality content. You just can't find better Yeah, that's it's it's the best there ever was. All right. Well tonight We're going to talk about the best starter armies for age of sigmar And i'm going to say right off the top if you're excited don't forget to hit like Don't forget to subscribe do all those fun things. I never say that before the end of the show anymore But now i'm saying it now so hit the button click them. It's fun tom. Let's talk about the news Yeah, so how about that rumor engine? How about it? This is actually a pretty cool rumor engine. It's like a creepy old hand with a stick and It's some hero or perhaps a our next perhaps a future cursed city model Perhaps I would that's how it reads to me I would be totally down with like a crone style model Could be sweet. Yeah, that'd be good. You good Uh So I mean in my mind That's cool. I it looks like an undeadie thing. It's got bones. It's clearly a human-ish person of some kind and Yeah, they got long creepy claw fingernails, which is always the sign of evil, you know that that's when you know you're dealing with a bad guy Well and the bone bracelet that helps, too Sure, I it's not a bone bracelet. It's on the Stick on the stick. Yeah Okay. Yeah, I guess it is It's it's like a real walking stick, you know, it's got the big hook to it and stuff But yeah, sure very googly Uh, so let's let's hope for some kind of, you know, maybe a flesh-eater cursed city hero. How about that? So, yeah, you can see that sure All right. What else we got? um survey says the uh Golden demon was this last week. We got some sweet looking models. How about that slayer sword kind of giant? Absolutely, uh, I'm just gonna kind of scroll through here. Did you have a particular favorite from the lot? I mean, I'm not gonna lie like it. It's the slayer sword Okay, because for me like I love the krakeny. I I always loved More than the rules what fascinated me about the kraken eater was the Like the sea and like the the iconography and all the stuff that would go along with that And so I love that they tied it in and had it fighting a caribbas. That is just such a I mean it's a terrible match for the caribbas, but In the lore like the caribbas is like a sea dwelling Hydra-esque sea monster and so it was just such a great appropriate kind of in-world Presentation of like a duel. So I was I was I was in Absolutely, I mean a lot of really creative stuff Um, I mean Albert Moreto font never met this the man, but his stuff was next level Um, I truly love his little goblin here who took gold in a os single figure I think he's adorable and gorgeous and wonderful. It was definitely up there in my favorites Obviously Lucas is like scaven running down this wall. The vertical presentation was great. I think this was Uh, you know, I saw a lot of Lucas sharing beforehand as he was prepping up the thing. So You know, I'm great stuff. Chris Clayton who obviously did take home this lair sword with his converted normal slan on croaks throne David Aroba's Cragnos stands out as just being an incredible like expression of light and color Just absolutely gorgeous. Um, I don't like Lord of the Rings figures. Sorry Uh, I'm sure the Orion made a lot of people jealous and nostalgic uh from from yoan You know This like spike magazine blood bowl one Honestly, one of my like probably in my top three easily. I just love this thing. Yeah, it's so creative Like the using the plinth to be the magazine frame and like having it just naturally extend into three dimensions Right and having the figures up in the air on the background and like the blood bowl pitch and arena in the background and stuff like I just really loved it. I love the colors. I love the look of it I think I just think it's like an incredibly creative presentation and it was just one of my absolute faves the whole time Um, you're right that the duel is just next level stuff from The resin which is unbelievably expertly poured to the printing application. Yeah, I mean, this is just Um, I believe in the interview chris said he spent like, you know, 360 350 hours ish on both pieces I believe that you know, it's it's an endurance test to do something at this level Um, so it's just incredibly incredibly amazing Can you imagine getting to that point in the resin the pour with his foot and then just messing it up? Well, I believe he didn't have to worry about that because my understanding was he painted the feet Or something like up to a point and then left them separate unattached So he could work on the rest of the model separately does that make sense what i'm saying like Yeah, he did the feed and like up to something Right, but then the rest of the model was separate and he then just attached The rest of the model once it was painted separately and then just you know sort of worked in this this other spray and stuff like that Which is the right way to do it. I mean that's brilliant. I'm not sure I would have thought of that Um, the young bloods that were absolutely killing it. My god the people under 14 just doing an amazing job And then the open with this like self made you know the self-scrafted yourself This unique bust that tom made, you know from scratch is what i'm trying to say digitally sculpted there we go As with aroba, but yeah, I mean they were just gorgeous Honestly, it's it's hard to choose. There was a lot of really really amazing pieces It stood out to me how many people are doing nmm in the competition and how well that's placing Um, obviously some backgrounds were in there and and placing, you know people have been I think that the background thing is Is not as much anymore. Many people had backgrounds of various kinds So all in all just an incredible and inspiring golden demon. It was really really amazing and every piece I wish we had more pictures start doing more pictures gw stop taking just one picture of the things for goodness gracious sake Uh, a special shout out to steve smith who was you know, I saw working on this big imperial night For a long long time and was just did exceptional work here. Um, it's rough This is an exceptionally good night. It's wonderful and steve did an amazing job But you no matter how amazing your job is you roll up into the competition And you've got david soper here with this this thing up and it's just like well, okay We're playing for silver here, you know Uh, but it's fascinating. Um, you know with g would gw's wonderful spinny tech Like how they do pictures like 360 on mom Like I wish that they did that for all of these like the high place. Thank you. Thank you Absolutely Or even if they just did like the cutouts like they'll do in the articles where they'll turn it and then zoom in on some Interesting features, you know or stuff like that like some of these units Like this guy, this is clearly a really good unit of imperial guard and you can just barely see them It looks like you're like looking at them from a distance It's the same with lucas's thing anytime where they had to shoot way back to get the whole thing in frame Like give us a couple close-ups of a couple of these people and punch them out in the sides here somewhere or something you know, whatever so Yeah, cool stuff. So overall beautiful work. Um, I might have to give it to the goblin as my absolute favorite. So there you go All right, what's next? Absolutely. We have uh, the new chaos knight command Yeah, boy, yeah, we do There he is We've got a only in this weird world that we exist in could they share a model of just a horse rider going toot toot And we're all like yay finally our our three year Suffering has ended. That's how long it's been since that that or will be by the time this guy comes out Since this to get the start collecting box. No Yes, that was 2019. Has it really been that long? Yeah Yeah That was 2019 that was pre-pandemic homie Oh Wow, do you think that they did the start collecting and then developed this box going to like now? We're holding on to it. I have no idea. I have no idea. I don't know But it doesn't matter It's It's great. Good. We'll have a command in the new chaos knights So you don't have to worry about converting them anymore. Which is, you know, all anybody ever did anyway, so it's fine And yes, he does have a very tiny attachment point. Uh, Brent said, uh Look at the tiny attachment point for the hoof and yes It's not actually for the hoof. Keep in mind that little rock he's standing on is is plastically connected to the feet So it's it's actually that little rock is part of it too So it's not the hoof connecting to something. It's that flat rock connecting to something All right. Yeah, but cool. Good stuff cast knights are gorgeous. Love the new knights and the new Warriors. I thought they were amazing. They're fantastic. Good stuff. So There we go I'm excited. I am excited For new slaves to darkness. We know it's coming. Yep We got a bunch of new models. It's gonna be a hot Christmas They will It's good stuff. I am super stoked Okay, moving on. Uh, let's do Um, let's do sorry. Wow that first plug Let's do the metal watch article that uh that dropped which was a which was a stunning um Like transparent kind of engagement of the process. I was I was so encouraged by it No, absolutely as I think we all should be Um, so Matt Matt Rose who is obviously the person talking in the in the interview Uh, he is Um, I've had the good fortune to talk to him some. He's a great dude. He's very smart like ridiculously smart He comes from a background in video games in video game balance amongst competitive sort of video games As as a designer and developer Um And project lead he understands and loves You know where him or very deeply and clearly he has a good head for kind of the various Metrics and things you'd want to be focusing on and I think this is overall quite encouraging Um, obviously 45 to 55 as they mentioned is the goal as we've been talking about, you know our our modified fat middle and uh, which by the way rob doing his whole show talking about the history of this Not no credit no credit rob for me call for for for the the coining of fat middle on this show talking about how he was so Intrinsic to the history of of balance and stats and I agree. I agree. He was Uh, but what's up, man? Where's where's my where's my where's the where's the credit rob? I'll tell you what cheese Guys, I was talking about credit and yet handed out none. It's rude Yeah, you know Uh, what stood out to you about that article? Uh Well I mean a lot of different things one that a lot of the armies are in a good place like I've got the win right thing up on the screen right now, obviously, right? Yeah, I know I see it and Just how good beasts of chaos have gotten since their update that's uh Like that is they are now the most out of whack force by a country mile Or beast and like so obviously, uh dragon ogres push them there. Sure And I'm just afraid that with a like adjustment To them right because like inevitably they're the ones that are going to get hit with a a slight adjustment um Like they're going to miss the The the newly approaching enlightened Like the zangor Yeah, we'll see uh, so um Brent asked how does this chart read so this is obviously the armies I'm uh, I pulled down the army chart. There's there's other things in there Um there this is the Win rate percentage so of the number of games they've played in what's their percentage of wins This is just a visual representation of it The the lighter color here in the center is the center band of 45 to 55 where you'd want to be with the plus or minus five percent And and then this has changed since the last sort of rolling window um Yeah, so I mean what it tells me Is that Uh, we've still got some some room to run here. Yep. Now. Hopefully with stuff like slaves to darkness. They'll see Some traction in the new Uh, certainly in the new world. It tells me stuff like blades of corn. They're they're white dwarf fixed it a lot You know boosted them up a couple percentage points. So that's it's good to see Uh, yeah, I mean it I think and I and I liked the the sort of three metrics the external balance of That isn't just focused on win rate That there's a lot of other metrics they're looking at as well, you know percentage of occurrence of war scrolls and stuff like that, right? Um down to the sub faction level looking at things like items and the universal items and how many lists they're appearing in and You know things of that nature So it I'm glad they're not trying to balance it all on one silver bullet that they don't think that's the answer They clearly have a a wide array of metrics. They're looking at and examining I think it's easy when you're doing stats to forget about things like the You know the margin of error and which your stats have like none of these percentages are real They might accidentally be right, but they're not actually real right Yeah, um, they're a they're an amalgam representation of a of a middle point, right with a plus or minus five percent margin of error and I think and he called that out in the interview which was Correct and good and shows that he understands sort of what he's working with And yeah, so I mean overall it was good. Yeah, that was all all the stuff to me. What about you For me the two big data points that stood out one was a funny insight and one was like a genuine one So the funny one was their statement that the goal for Like core items and enhancements Was was to be at 10% or less for any given item And I was like whoops Thinking about things like our game don't right Sure, although I do wonder how I wonder how far out that is I bet it's less than you think but still more than 10% Well, I bet it's a 20% like I don't think it's like I don't think it's 70, but I'll bet it's 20 Sure, right. Sure. I'm which is like way outside standard deviation for what you're looking for at that point. Sure um And so that was the one that was uh Uh, a funny insight to me the interesting one was that I think this goes to show just how How Sometimes very small tweaks Can have just like such significant impacts 100% and so and I'm looking at beast of chaos here, right? Like it was simply a war scroll terrain update Uh, yes plus a monsters action, I would argue The monsters action that gives them the either one or d3 extra summoning points every round The primal call that their their monsters can use Like that's a big deal. That's a lot of extra primal points. It is it is it is But yes, it is one more scroll update plus that is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Yeah I don't disagree And so it just it shows to me that like sometimes we can get at the core of an army of fixing the core of an army With small adjustments. Sure if you can figure out where that is Right and finding that fulcrum is not always easy. By the way, everybody's gonna have opinions Right and most of them are wrong Uh, like if you go and ask most of the community, they'll be like, yeah, you just need to fix this one thing Oh, yeah, yeah, you don't ask me the community for those answers Like in general because again as we talked about many many times the community is terrible at balancing I mean It just shows it's really hard. Like I think in that case. Yes, they they seized on this one thing Which by the way, I'm not opposed to making faction terrain actually useful. What a novel idea, right? But Um It's like it's clearly manifested in real power Uh, like doger's under the power of that that terrain piece are just killers, right? It's not that they're unbeatable, but they are way out of whack like they are the most out of whack army right So Yeah I I have been uh Very excited about the possibility of a zangor army After the the zeke stuff sure So, yeah All right, but yeah, I I The most the smartest thing you said in there and I the one I completely agree with was this is an iterative process It's you know, gonna be something we push on small amounts watch for changes and so on and so forth, right? They're not gonna they don't think they can fix it overnight. They don't intend to fix it overnight They know they've got to do Constant tweaks shuffles moves. I think that's exactly the right way to go, you know, especially as we get tighter and tighter How amazing are we? We're at like a what a year into matt's work. Is that right? I guess roughly, uh, yeah, probably probably I think they are hiring for the position last spring Um, so I'm guessing you probably started last summer Like the prior summer, right? of 2021 which means we're probably a year into his actual active work Six six months probably into actual like full-on balancing and we're we're within like a standard deviation of most of Uh on most armies like we're we're very very close. So I've been very impressed. Absolutely and then we'll see and I mean, obviously we've got You know a battle scroll coming up soon, which I'm sure will change some stuff up And we've you know, we've got a slaves book coming soon slaves to darkness. We've got You know a sons of behemoth book coming sometime soon, right? So like, you know, things are gonna move that'll move legion That'll move s2d. That'll move sons We've got an ogre book coming soon, you know, so like we're gonna see some movement here. It'll be interesting to see what happens So I am excited. Yeah All right, what's next? Oh, that's news. Okay, cool Uh, well, we'll leave this up for a minute and while we talk about our pick of the week tom What's your pick of the week? What would you like to share with everybody? I'm gonna be boring and just point everybody to the metal watch article Like, you know, we've spent the last what five minutes of the show talking about it Um, but there's nothing like it's worth going and digging into Yeah, actually actually listen to the 16 minute discussion from Yeah, yeah, there's a podcast 16 minute kind of uh YouTube video there and I would encourage you all to check it out. So it is it is worthwhile To listen to them kind of reflect on this Yeah Um, autumn they do roll the the battle scroll changes into the app Um, they just the battle scroll is just them collected But they do roll where appropriate they do roll the changes into the app like where they can that is to say Sometime like if it's a rule change or a point change those roll into the app Um Yeah, uh my pick of the week Uh is going to be For a future video That is not out yet, but that I watched today. I know we'll get cut into a video, but that is coming in the future Because I watched so Travarion Who is a fantastic miniature painter? An ever-chosen winner He today did a nice live stream On youtube, I don't know if the stream is still up, but it's on I know he always makes him available on his on his discord, which anybody can join And but that video he reviewed all the golden demon winners and talked about him in depth and what he liked and interesting things He noticed he obviously has a great eye. He's won many a golden demon himself As I and so it was just a really interesting stream It's really great insight into sort of, you know, what the judges are probably evaluating and so on and so forth He's gonna cut it into a video in the future You can go watch like the vod on his Twitch or whatever now if you want to watch the long form version or you can wait, but I'll link his channel down below It was a great Uh discussion and he like he answered a lot of the chats questions and stuff like that. So um check it out Travarion's an awesome dude Okay, uh, let's talk about some hobby time tom. You're on uh You're on vacation or something you still getting that hobby and you got stuff to paint you have more time than I do Uh before before I try I mean I uh this week I did some heavy conversion stuff I didn't send I sent you the photos, but I don't I didn't send free the show I just sent them in general did some heavy conversion work on a invitation like got way more into that than I anticipated um Like doing like converting an infernoth into a fallen magma droth crawling out of lava Uh and so I uh I Um, I spent a lot like way more time than I should have on that, but uh, so I'm working on that for uh, havoc as well as Um, my warlords are the big things that I worked on this week. I'm doing modeling and cutting and nice Well, it's a very busy week because we're going to Holy havoc in a little while And I have I will have much less time than you for that tournament Because a full week before the tournament I have to go to I'm going away with my wife, but we're also I'm going to a work conference for like a week So I will be and I get back the night before we leave To go to the tournament. So I have one full week less of hobbying Uh, and of course I have to like get content ready and that kind of stuff Uh, so I did manage to just paint a little fun thing in the middle there for myself That was just for me, which is this little Deathmaster dude little 3d print deathmaster guy. He's fun. He's a little jumpy boy uh, I Testing out some schemes for my votan color scheme that is for a video So that is uh getting made I have to finish that video before I leave it won't come out for a while, but I need to finish it And then I got my warlord assembled And need to get her painted as well as a display board made and a book printed For our army and everything this weekend. So this is my warlord for havoc, which is the new Re-release of the spider demon prince Sort of model from creature caster. Um, she's very cool. I did not assemble her with all of her Punchy claws. She has more punchy claws. I don't like all of the punchy claws looks like a keeper secrets to me Um, I mean, it's smaller. It's it's Certainly you could like I'm sure it would be a perfectly fine process. Are you playing slanesh for havocments? Uh, to a point an s2d version of it apparently as we just decided right before this call Um, I mean I was playing s2d and then we said do you want to go slanesh? And I was like yes, that's fine. I was painted to be either corner slanesh It was me going dude that Your warlord model is a keeper Don't you dare say that you're playing court? That was actually i mean look. She's a demon prince. Okay. I don't know what to tell you Uh Grim darkness. What are my thoughts on the votan range? I absolutely love them. I love the whole range I think it's incredible. Um, it'll be like my holiday gift to myself if I can get ahead far enough in content I'll I'll do the whole army like I'll just sit down and do the whole army Over over like the holiday or something but uh at the same time. I'm also writing Doing a lot of heavy writing on the next Game so it's been it's a very busy time right now. It's a very busy time. I'm not sleeping much. It's mostly just work Um, but that's me. So my hobby has been very very busy Yeah, uh, all right Tom shall we get to the to the main topic for the night? Yeah Okay Let's get it. Let's let's get amongst it and here we go boop boop boop boop boop do There it is best starting armies aos 3.0 Uh, we do this. Oh, I'll tell you tom just a real quick aside I'll I'll move the timestamp for the starting armies thing Um real quick aside on the leagues of votan thing I really did sit there and have to think to myself deeply about whether or not I wanted to convert the whole army into a ko army Because it would fit perfectly. You should have you should have Well, I haven't put anybody together yet except my one test model. So I still could like the The little guys are perfect arcanaughts. There's three different sizes of vehicles That would be very easy to just make a little hover things instead of wheels on the bigger two I mean, you know, you want to and you'd be and you're technically paying do or like you got your dwarf army, dude I understand. Um I it I don't know yet. We'll see if an idea takes me. Anyways, that's neither here nor there Um, it was just something that occurred to me that I thought was funny how I hadn't really contemplated how well it works But it does work quite well. Here's what I'm gonna do. I want to give you the holy grail my friend ready If you need ko bits, let me know sure Well, I may I may I have I have the uh, the the king bits box For ko and so that's something that you want. I will make that available to you if you want to if you want to swap them over to ko Uh, we'll see that's my answer to you tom. We'll see All right, let's talk about starting armies What I'm talking about apparently right now, I guess Uh, but let's talk about our best starting armies in aos 3.0 Okay, let's talk about the game stake. We got to lay down some foundation here first tom Okay, we see the show Right, we do the show like once once a year once a year once every 18 months or so Um, and with the new edition. I thought, you know, vince, we haven't done a 3.0 version Right. Yeah, correct. We have not no So here we go. So here we go. Yes, exactly. All right, so It's available the the core rules available for free But contain a large amount of complexity, right? There's too much complexity in the base game We know that's a problem right now So we're just going to get that straight out of the out of the gate first But that's going to wait some of our army thoughts, right? Um, because if you're already having to learn a lot with the with the base rules We don't want to then throw on a complex army Right, so ease of use has to be in our thoughts Yeah, the general's handbook has heavily influenced the current play of what's good and what's not But it's not going to be relevant to our ratings today. That's that we're not going to worry about Okay, because the ghp is not required And at a deeper level It's going to change right like it'll it'll change probably in december By the time a new player Gets their army painted up that g the current ghp will not be relevant. That's just simply true right So and and hopefully hopefully we've got a a simple battle pack out as well Uh, that will allow people to Uh, just play by simple rules and not have to worry about all that crap. So that'll solve all those problems But again, not going to take that into account Uh, so what what metrics are we using to decide this? We're going to base it off cost Ease of collection access on the secondary market rules complexity all those kinds of things All right, and traditionally we've done painting complexity as well, right? Uh, yeah, absolutely. Yes 100% like how easy is it to actually get painted if you're if you're starting it up? Okay So it's kind of that mishmash Yep All right Now I did want to say just a general word about how to start here if this is like not just you starting an army But literally your first army Okay, then there's a couple of things we've talked about before we did a whole show on it. Go check that out but uh I wanted to re reinforce some of those things here one don't you don't have to start at 2000 points Two you can cut stuff grand strategies battle tactics core battalions all that crap. You don't need it. Just cut it out It's fine Cut anything you like if your group doesn't like it cut it You know do an escalation league start small build up 500 points 750 points build up go to a thousand 1250 1500 whatever whatever easy Okay And then the most important rule something that I can't tell you I'm curious is your take on this Tom, but I think this is the most important rule And that is pick an army you think has a cool vibe All right And that you enjoy aesthetically Lower wise just the whole deal top to bottom you like their vibe Right if you're vibing with an army hard for an extended period of time Then it's the rules are going to change. You're going to get different books You're going to have different editions. You're going to have different generals handbooks Things will be up things will be down That all is going to change over time But if you love the vibe of an army like I love scaven or slanash or something like that, right? Where the aesthetic the sensibility the lore everything about it just speaks to me Then that's an army you're going to stick with you're going to want to paint You're going to keep putting the work into it's it's just the number one rule and I can't pick that for you You have to know that one of the things we've talked about for a long period You know, we've literally been paying this job for like seven years, right? Is that you are going to spend more time? Painting your models than pushing them around the table. Yeah Like that's just the reality In many cases. Yes Yeah, in many cases and so the reality is is that you need to pick something that you're willing to just spend time on because you enjoy what it is Yep Yep, absolutely Um, like it's just the most important rule. It's number one and I I will never be able to Uh, tell you what that is for you. It's a pretty it's every army is going to speak to each individual like On a personal level and what was so fascinating is that sometimes you may not know what's going to speak to you or not? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. And so a great example of this for myself Was we did when aos first launched in 2015 We did a budget build an army And so everybody got to spend $50 on their army Over the course of every month. Was it for six months? Yep, yep So we spent 50 bucks on their army every month for six months. I think or was it a hundred. I don't know regardless And I knew that I could get dwarves cheap And so I was like sure I'm gonna paint a dwarf army And like I fell in love with those little bastards Like I fell in love with painting dwarves And so when ko dropped like my my pump was primed right like I wanted to paint work I wanted to paint slayers, right? And so like that's what launched me into the ko fire slayer debacle where I now I have like 15,000 points across three armies of just course um, and that's not something like Conceptually, I had fallen in love with like the idea. I made I fell in love with right of like the of the dwarf pirate like Long-drawn slayers reimagined like I fell in love with that but in general Uh, I had fallen in love with painting dwarves just because and I know you had a very similar experience as well, right? Yeah, I mean iron draws right where I didn't know I was gonna love it until I got the idea behind it And then it all came together. I mean that was the same project we did together there and you know, it's it's But once I got into those boys like their expressive faces the big awesome armor like you know It just it just spoke to me and now now I'm I now I'm with Du Bois Uh, so I'm I'm a destruction player now. So we saw destruction players now Uh, so there you go. Okay cool All right Now tom before we get into our ranking. We're gonna do a little tier listing type of stuff here We're gonna go through the start collecting. You ready? Okay, yeah, okay, so I've copied in all of the start collecting and we're gonna do this We're gonna do a lightning round Uh of of rating these things as to whether or not they're worth a buy they can only be Totally worth it or crap. That's it. Did you send it? Did you send me this? Uh, this president? I did not I didn't send it as president. I'm sorry, okay, but there so We're gonna I have little arrows down here. We will place on each one. Okay, so Let's start with start collecting iron jaws three pigs some hard boys and a war chanter Is that a is that a buy or is that a pass? Where's the stance on this one? Uh, that is uh, that is one arrow up I I absolutely agree No problems there. We're in on that one. That's that's a solid buy right there Pigs are good work chanters always good. Hard boys. Yeah, they fluctuate, but they're useful. Okay. Cool Uh, next up start collecting stormcast eternals the thunder strike brotherhood Which is liberators uh, some of your original recipe paladins the lord on dracolith And three prosecutors the hammer boy specific. Uh, I want to give it an arrow up, but I I can't it's an arrow down That is correct. It is an arrow down this we we didn't know I mean kudos for still being the cheap one at only 85 dollars But uh, that's gonna be a pass for me dog unless you're unless you're deeply in love with all the original stormcast skulls You get a relic dirt you get a little relic dirt in there too. Like let me point out you actually get a second hero Um, you do get the relic dirt the one of the only places you can get the relic dirt I'll also yeah, I mean not worth 85 dollars So yeah when I looked at this I was like well, I'd use five libs I'd use the prosecutors and I'd use the relic But the other two units. Yeah, not so much Yeah, remember this is a nuance free zone So, uh, you can get basher relic dirt out of almost anything. So it's not a big deal Start collecting slaves to darkness. We talked about it before Uh, this is the one that comes with five knights ten warriors and your lord on carcadrack Uh, it's definitely a uh an arrow up Hard buy stonks my dogs absolutely come on Like we've got to believe with the new book coming that knights and warriors won't be crappy again, right? Like they're gonna get it right this time, right? Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, okay. Like I don't care in the current book all of those are a buy for me If I made a slaves army all of those units would be in that Absolutely, okay Start collecting skinks Well already it's a winner Because as we know skink is the most powerful keyword in the entire game Not a joke I don't I uh, I don't see anything there. There is nothing here. Is there an empty cell? Are you being funny right now? It's ten regular skinks a star a little skink star priest the three pterodons and a bestilladon Uh Yeah, that's a buy for me That's a buy for me. Where are you at? Uh, just on concept alone. It's a not buy because I don't think it should be an army No, I mean the reality is this like it's a good like those are all use usable units Yeah, the question the only questionable one's the three pterodon slash ripper dactyls But the basti great skinks great little stick skink star priest great all good stuff a plus all around Yeah, so that one's a buy. Okay. We're in on that. Yeah start collecting gloom spike gets You get your loon boss. You get your squig herd. You get three rock trolls. No No Wow, you're down on that one No, I'm out. Okay. Okay. This might be the first one. We have a true disagreement on I'm up on that one Okay, I mean I like it. I like it for painting I well, yeah, obviously there are all these are gorgeous models. Yes. Let me tell you what I'm up on this one, tom This I'm buying into the stocks market right now on these boys. Okay, because because they're so low They have to get better exactly You're buying in low right at a buy the dip. You buy the dip, tom Yeah, um, my problem is that at least in the current rules, none of those units actually play together sure Like none of those units like can interact at all in the game You may as well have like an iron jaws unit sons of behemoth unit and a And an ogre unit there like that. It's they don't they are not Yeah, no, thank you. You win Uh that now that being said if you're a gambling man and you want to buy the dip I'm telling you pick this bad boy up now. Okay, like yes, you're right. You're right currently There's just it's like three different armies It would be like if this dark collecting or a war clan's book had a war chanter five savage maniac boar boys right and And like three of the and three bolt boys, you'd be like, what am I doing here? What is this? No, bolt boys are way too useful. Um, comparatively Yeah, sure and 10, uh scare shield guys Okay, I mean that said I like I like Most of those units and multiples anyways like so sure you could buy it but in general like it just struggles as a box Yeah, my I just I know we said no nuance But up as always usual lie It's if you really love the army and if this is the one that speaks to you This is a perfectly fine beginning investment in it because like you're just gonna need to get a lot of other stuff Because you are effectively buying three different armies here for now for now. Yeah. Yep. Yep for now We know there will be a destruction book for gloom spite next year because a duh It's not like they've announced anything. We just We've applied a power we call common sense. Yep. Yep. Okay start collecting flesh eater courts Uh, you green arrows Yeah, just like Just all of the greens, uh, this one is a hard buy at 95 dollars It's your entire army. It is built out of this box. You get ghouls. You get, uh, the flares or whatever Slash all the characters because you build them out of the normal stuff too. You get the big guy Who could be any of the characters? It's just the army is just these three units So replicated never Four or five units because you're you're you're zombie dragon and you're terrorized. Yeah, right? Yeah As well as your horrors and your crit flares as well as your ghouls And you need all that for summoning And so like my son started this army and we just bought four of these boxes Like that that was it Because it's basically everything you buy this a regent and a piece of terrain and you're literally you're done That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed um It's I mean this is it's it's one of the best star collectings of all time. All right, so as an aside um It's also Like one of the easiest to paint It is easier. Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there right now. We're just rating the star collectings But yes, I agree big stonks on this one too because assumingly they'll have a oops. They'll have a thing coming okay, uh Next one this one specifically for tom. Here we go. Start collecting Coradron overlords you get Uh a gun hauler three little balloon boys. I think it's five thunders probably and A character. I don't know what character that is but it's one of them Do you know what character it is tom? Is it nadmerl? It's a guy with a hammer It's an it's an injured master. I know sure. Why not? Yeah, uh, and um, you know, I like this is a buy Um, because you can convert that injured master into an admiral It could be any character you want because they all look the same. Yes Like if I was starting a k army, I would buy two of these boxes Yeah, sure balloon boys good gun haulers always good even good as allies if you want to throw in another force 10 thunders is the correct number and you can easily modify that due to two different characters Yeah, like I would I would turn them into an admiral and I would turn him into a Navigator and you're done. Yep. There you go Start collecting seraphon you get a bunch of sorus. I believe still an odd number like 12 Which is I think And then like five knights and the lord on karnasaur who can be billed as either of the two different lords on karnasaur Uh That's gonna be a pass for me Seraphon is as bad of a keyword as the sorry sorus is as bad of a keyword as skink is as good of a keyword Um, these guys have wanted to be good. Maybe in the next one they will be But at the moment, it's going to be a hard pass for me You'd have to be a big stonks believer on this one to go into this this is the definition of buying the dip right here I don't see what you're talking about. I see nothing. Uh, no, that's bad like I could see running um Like running a like if you really love the karnasaur um like um Like tom go on ran at uh, Nash and nash count for four karnasours. Yeah, right I could see buying four karnasours and they're just having sorus extra Um, but in general, this is uh, this is a this is a gnaw dog That's that's a pass start collecting sylvaneth. You get a tree lord guy who can be built as Any of the tree lord people. Yes, you can also make a trogladon. Yes, I'm sorry. I didn't say that But yes, that one that kit does also make a trogladon. Sorry dan Um, but even the trogladon is just like fine. He's fine At any rate, the tree lord can be built as any of the various incendiary tree lords of the regular tree lord the ancient Or the spirit of dirthu You get a dry you get some dry ads again a weird number of dry ads like a just odd quote usable number of dry ads And then you get the little branch lady person um, some of these Some of these start collecting Boxes can only be found like on your local stores that they're not available. These are all pulled directly off the website today Oh, right? Yeah, literally I went ages sigmar start collecting. I went to the website and grabbed screenshots I only pulled the ones that they are actively selling that I could add to cart You can buy these right now folks. So if you want to go get them right now I'm just saying I wanted to make this 100 current. I refreshed this yesterday That's fair. No, okay. Uh, at least in the u.s. This is all u.s. And different different locales do have different availability for me I'm buying two of these silvanet boxes Wow, this is such a hard pass for me dry ads are straight trash Uh, because again, no nuance in this. It's either the best or the worst That is the bad. I don't care about that character Unless she's like a battle mage Of silvanet, which is how I always see her get used and you could convert her to like She has a staff and the trailer train. Yeah, this is not anything you want in the army right now Where's right the kernoff? Where's the bug riders? Of course, uh, where's all this stuff? But here's the deal like there's 16 in this box. So by buying two of these you're getting 32 Of the dry ads. Sure. So you're getting more than you're ever going to use but you have them The problem is silvanet's just got a new book And dry ads are bad I know but this fills out your collection Tom It's a red arrow. I'm sorry everybody It's a red arrow But all right, but you get a dirty you and an uh ancient. Okay bad bad Yeah, start collecting corn blood bound the gore blade war bound, uh war war band. Sorry uh Gives you Blood reveres blood warriors corgirath. Hold on shut your face the corgirath the This guy who could be either the generic corn lord or Uh, terry tate office corn linebacker Corgis bull Yes, correct. And it also gives you the blood secretor Okay All right, what's your rating on this this one? I mean it's corn Like this is the this is the definition of buying the dip right now full buy This is full buy Like there's no way you don't buy this. Are you kidding me? First of all only place you can get a corgirath still Secondly blood secretor always gonna be good corgis color the generic lid dude. Awesome Plus these guys have to be useful in the next book have to be Like Have to be hello dear. How you doing seems like you should buy all the armies Well, we got a lot of red arrows too Oh, are those down? Hey, look, we're doing it. We're doing a stonks predictions. Yes. Oh, okay. Happy survived the hurricane I brought dogs down. Yes. Thank you. You know people love the dogs. Sure. Absolutely. So You know I'm sorry. That's okay. Good to see you there. Why is he doing it? Tom says hello because he's saying hello to you I'm glad you're alive. Tom just wanted me to go out into the hurricane. No, he said he's glad you're alive Oh, is that what but he wanted video from the hurricane eye That was not acceptable. I'm sure. Yeah, it would have been that would have been no Tom at 85 dollars. Look, you're getting you're getting like so many units here. This is what you're not wrong Like don't get me wrong. But this is again, this is this is the definition of buying the dip It is it is buying the dip, but I'm I'm you know what I'm in I'm taking I'm taking the dip. I'm buying the dip All right start collecting soul blights soul blight grave lords. This is five Black knights slash somehow hex rates for a different army It is some number of grave guard. I believe and then the uh white Lord on steed the the new guy like the new model they made for them. Are those great. Are you sure? Yeah, they're not the new skeletons. So they have to be the grave card. Oh, yeah, that's true Um Yeah, I I'd buy this once if I was building this army Yeah, the sad part about this one is the hero is kind of the worthless thing Right because he's nothing But the black knights have value in an army the is it 20 grave guard? I mean 20 grave guards good like that's good They're super ancient sculpts, which is what gives me hesitation but uh They're you know like grave guard are a good unit. Let's just full stop there Right that is by is buying a good unit for your army Black knight's perfectly functional useful good unit. The white king dude looks amazing, but he's just bad Uh, which is unfortunate, but I think we give this one the weakest green arrow. We got tom What do you think about that? Can you give it a short? Can you resize? Yeah here? We'll resize the arrow. There you go. This is a there. He gets a little arrow There we go. Okay Yep. All right start collecting beasts of chaos 10 vestigors a brave shaman 10 engor and a Big guy a cygore slash gorgon Yeah, I mean I'm in that's fine Because the reality is is that with this you get some summoning fodder some vestigore and uh a summoning cygore Okay, okay. All right. All right That's uh, this is a tough one for me because again, we talked about doggers. We talked about zinch, you know, this isn't the the powerhouse of the of the current Uh You know sort of beasts of chaos engine That being said besties aren't baddies the brave shaman is Frequently useful. It's really just that gorgon cygore that gives me pause because it's an old model and they're they're still You can summon him Sure, sure. You know what? Okay. He sold me. There you go. It's also gonna get a smaller Right like unlike many other armies you can literally use all of these if you're playing no matter what version of this army you're playing We're gonna give it a slightly bigger green arrow than this old light. There you go, but it's still smaller overall Okay All right, that arrow does look suspiciously nuanced. You're right. We better leave it behind before I become too much of a liar All right, start collecting anvil guard You get the chariot that can be billed as either chariot the monster that can be billed as the caribdas or the hydra 10 of the Corsairs and the Corsair leader guy on the peg leg Famously the oldest cheapest hero in the game. I love I love the shape of this army I love the models of this army. Uh-huh That's no that's unless you're also trying to create create chris clayton's duel I guess but you want to go bigger Like you're going for the full diorama, right? So you want the Corsairs on a rock shooty get the giant To make them. I mean to be fair Okay, look points against you against you chris. Look your painting exemplary The work top notch the effort unbelievable But uh, the rules for dual say roughly evenly matched opponents in a fight And uh, the caribdas is only like a hundred points a hundred something points and that uh, kraken eaters like 500 so You should have bought the whole start collecting and had them all fight the giant that would have been an even fight chris So I don't know. I guess better luck next time uh, so Okay Uh start collecting gray water fastness. This is Dwarves it's Oh my god It's the i'm gonna guess they're iron breakers. I guess and then it's the gyro copter slash bomber You can build it either way and then the boss guy and the other dude So here's the deal. This is an engineer guy. I don't even know what he is. What is he supposed to be? Somehow this is a pass for me. It's completely a pass. Yes And do you know why it's a pass for me? I'm ready They're getting a new book next year with a completely redesigned army Right. Yeah, exactly. And we don't know how much of that's being redesigned Yeah, exactly. Right. What what what are we going to get of dwarf redesigns? Is he just going to be human? Are we getting dwarves? Are we getting elves? What's the what's the situation? Right, we don't know Right, and so that's a pass. I'm not buying this. There's no right. Yeah, it's too risky All right vanguard now we're into the vanguards by the way of the start collecting which are the more expensive We're in the expensive boxes. Yes But they come with more stuff too. So but generally but blah, blah, blah, okay vanguard disciples of zinch Uh comes with like 10 of your little arcanite dudes Your little the the people whose names I can never remember the karakak lights got there got them Uh 10 zanis A magister on disc three screamers three flamers I mean If I was playing zinch Uh-huh, I probably still wouldn't buy it See I'm in on this. I know like it's hear me out. It's a good it is a good smattering of models Right, like you're going to use magister on disc. I would use this angora for sure I would definitely not use the karakak Sure, um, which is I agree. They're the dead weight Yeah, uh, there's a large portion of this box Um, but I like the flamers. I like the screamers To me I look at it and go screamers great Flamers great or at least good both battle line optional and two of them All right, both something I I want to have his options to bring into my army zangor good magister on disc one of the best heroes Uh, like I completely came around on that guy since the review show And the acolytes. It's like well, okay. I've got them maybe 10 of them. You never know, right? So our torius rex is right Uh, this is a one buy Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That sounds right. It's a single buy. You buy it once. You're good. You feel good about that Like your battle line is definitely covered out of this one box. You get four battle line units in this box potentially, right? And the hero is amazing So, okay, cool vanguard skaven Gray seer 20 clan rats the thing that can be built as a warp lightning cannon or a plague claw and three storm vermin Where you at? What you thinking tom? I don't know man The answer is it's a buy clan rats are always good the current season It's a bit rough for them. But they're still like one of the most solid battle lines in the game This is one unit of them 20 at 100 points for 20 models. It's still one of the best deals going around in warhammer Storm fiends are still storm fiends. They're still good The warp lightning cannons a lot of fun It can be useful and a gray seer is basically in every skaven army You will build ever like you'll basically never not include a gray seer so Like it's it's it's a stonks. It's a buy Yeah, I don't know like I Are we gonna use the warp lightning cannon or the or the the place tom fiends That's the only thing that's maybe on the fence and my answer is yeah, it has some homes and some builds. It really does Okay, okay Because you can have one engineer buff all of them now They don't have to be tied together one to one anymore so yeah Okay fire slayers. I don't even know what's in this box a bunch of dwarves I cannot there is no world. I can't tell them apart at full scale There's I assume it looks like some kind of hearth guard some some number of hearth guard some number of volkites and a hero guy who Has a banner so I assume that's the banner guy hero. Uh, this is a one buy Okay, yeah, I'm going totally to you on this one Yeah, and the problem is is that you're getting 20 volkites Which like the problem is is the market feels like too many Yeah, like the market has flooded with volkites right now And you're only getting five of the hearth guard berserkers and or oryx You're going but you are also getting a You are also getting a A battle smith and the battle smith is a win Um, because you're like you're going to put a battle smith in most armies. You're going to use those five hearth guard or oryx potentially depending on how you build Um, so what I would say is this like it's it's like a small arrow buy like I would buy one of these If I was starting out and I I didn't have access to anything Right, okay You're saying it's like could be a solid base for your for if you're going to collect the army If fire slayers your thing if dwarves you never figured out how to put on pants You're like, yes, this is the army for me. Okay. I like man babies with beards. Yes, right Then then you are going to use these units. They are they like they're going to find a home as a base You're going to need a lot of other things But it's potential base because the reality is is that like there's just such a perfusion of of um Of volkites out there like on eBay and stuff like that from everybody that bought The old star collecting because the old star collecting by the way if you can get your hands on it Um, was a magma droth and 10 volkites And it was cheaper than just buying a magma droth. So everybody just bought bunches of boxes of For those for the magma droth and just had extra volkite. Okay. Okay Um, so like again, if you don't have access to anything like this is maybe a buy But again in ebay you if you want volkites you can get in there for cheaper Fair enough. All right vanguard daughters of cane. The question is do the five completely worthless doomfire warlocks Uh, bring down the entire box No, uh, because it's five bow snakes 10 witch elf bow snakes or stabby snakes Obviously, both of these are are dual builds five wait or 10. Sorry 10 witch elves or sisters of slaughter the malusai iron scale and then the five doomfire warlocks slash Uh guys in another army. I'm buying this box Okay, okay I'm real sus on this one. I'll tell you that right now. Especially since you can get the iron scale just alone now And you need a lot more snake ladies, but I'll I'll give you a tepid I'll give you a you you get the you get the strangely nuanced small arrow on this one Uh, okay last three. Here we go. Yep. Yep Uh vanguard eidenath deepkin you get three eels a shark ten nemardi and pointy guy Yes, absolutely. I am in I am in Yeah, like this box everything I bought multiples of those in the building of the idk army. That's not mine and Um, and it is it is it's a good box Yeah, yep agreed. All right vanguard knight haunt Uh, although yes as pointed out somebody mentioned, um Big in the chat said buy the war cry boxes and said yes If you can get your hands on those for the witches those are for the snakes. Those are good deals Yes, absolutely agreed Okay, vanguard knight haunt Tom you get three spirit hosts. You get 10 grim gas reverie. You can stop. Yes You have a worthless hero in here. You'll use everything else Fair enough I mean you will like because those grim gas can also be blade guys if you want to be blade guy crevs Um, you're going to use a spirit host to guard And there's been some competitive lists that have ran up blocks of nine of those So yeah, like yes, you're going to use everything here. Uh, that hero's going to be useless useless, but you can convert him so The knight of shrouds is the only time the only thing bring it down Finally the start collecting demons of slanesh, which was temporarily out of stock Okay For some reason Uh, you get five seekers. You get the big chariot. You get 10 daemonettes You get a red arrow. So I don't care that you're out of stock. Sorry. I love you slanesh, but that's that's a trash It's trash. All right. You don't like pain vins Uh, well not that much. Uh, okay Boom All right. Now we get to the rating tom. Here comes the real part Now it's time for the tier listing. So we just spent 45 minutes on not the show is what you're saying correct I mean, it's fine We had to give people the the start collecting is a major inroad in and I don't want people making a bad decision Now we rank everything. Okay, everything everything We rank all the armies all 24 We got them all buddy. Wow bold move All right, all the little books are down here gathered at the bottom They're all ready to go. Let me explain the chart You're really trying to kill my vacation here, but it's no if we're gonna keep it tight. Don't worry. We'll go through this fast, okay Here we go We got the books Over here on the left. We have low cost things more on the left side or low cost things on the right or high high cost I really like I really like the uh the format you have here though. It's pretty Oh, thank you the Top up here is easy to play Down here is harder to play. So this top left area is your best start stuff, right? Because it's easy to play with a low cost With me and this down here. This is your worst area This is your high cost harder to play now when we say easy to play Easy to play also takes into account Not only the rules complexity But also the painting right because to play them or assuming you're gonna paint them I've had way too much slight cider for The nuance that you're trotting out here I'm and cost equals real paper money. Yes, correct. That is that is money not not points money money. Yes, okay All right, tom You ready? We're gonna shuffle up and spin and by spin I mean i'm just gonna reach down here and grab an army and then we're gonna see where it goes All right, maggotkin of nergal. That's where we're starting. Where do these guys fall? High to low cost easy to play Do they not have a vanguard? They did not have one listed on the site that I could purchase. They did have one. It was not available at the moment on the site so I copied all of the ones that were currently available on the u.s site They did have a there is a nergal vanguard. It exists It is a good deal. It would be a buy 100 percent because it's an awesome vanguard. It was not available on the site. I don't know why I can't tell you I'm gonna put them middle of the cost spectrum easy to play Okay Like easy easiest where in the like just generally in this space where they drift in? Yes, you push them forward Uh-huh and rolled ice. Okay Right like that is nergal Uh, hold on. Let me answer mani real quick mani. The the slanesh one was still on the site It said temporarily out of stock the the nergal one wasn't even it wasn't there There was nothing I could copy and paste It did not exist. It didn't say like permanently out of stock. It didn't say temporarily out of stock. It didn't exist It wasn't there. I don't know what to tell you now. I have to check the games workshop website Go for it. I like if it's there for you. Cool. I don't know why But I went to and selected start collecting and it wasn't there So I apologize everyone. It's a buy the nergal one is definitely a buy. There you go. All right um Okay Like go to the site select the star collecting and oh, I'm already there and it is definitely available On the website if you just click nergal Oh, is it just I don't know it's five blight kings It's 10 plague bears. It's too flat uh too Is it filtered so it doesn't show up in the star collecting it only shows up in in action. I don't know I just clicked nergal. I just got no. Yeah, see I went to the just show me all the star collecting It's the Scrivener and two of the fly loa um The guys that you want Yeah, anyways, I completely agree with your point here tom to me nergal is in in fact, I might even move it A little bit up more in the easy to play area because it is a very forgiving army It's a little slow in some cases, but nonetheless. Well, it is very easy to paint It's very fun to paint. Yeah, it was tyler's first paint army who was traditionally extremely afraid of painting And yet got into it and was having a great time. I can think of no better Recommendation it's pretty easy to build lists. Most the units are like about 250 points So you just got to choose your eight-ish units or something like that, right? Yeah. Yeah You know the heroes all have a use it doesn't have that many crazy complex interactions diseases fun And thematic and flavorful it feels very much like nergal the rules aren't too overwhelming. Yeah, it it uh It is it can be a little bit expensive because beyond that vanguard some of the stuff is a little higher But it's solid solid starter army. Yeah, cool Next up fire slayers boom got them. All right, what are we doing with them tom? Where are they going? bottom No, uh middle bands Mm-hmm right side Um bottom right Okay, like down here right like very like pretty high cost. They are a fairly expensive army Right, they are fairly expensive army because there's just no real way to get them in the numbers that you need for the things that you need um, and they are Like you want to push them forward, but that's actually not the always the best way to play them Do you think they belong in the middle tier of to play or the hardest to play tier? No, because they are just a push an army forward. They're not there's not They're not finesse at all like okay No, I mean it's me. It's me that you push forward. Okay uh Yeah, i'm gonna put them like here. They're riding the line a little bit. I'm gonna scoot them down a little Because just I think they do I think it's really easy to lose with them Especially if you don't know what you're doing. They are kind of annoying to paint. It is a lot of skin and stuff like that But it's also really easy because it's all skimped Sure, like so you just like zenith all contrast Try brush or nothing. Sure. Okay Uh, all right good stuff. I'm happy with that Uh, bam orc war clans now. This is actually three armies Obviously so this gets tough to rate right, but let's get it out of the way. Where does this one belong top left? It's easy to play and it is easy to acquire And it is in general. It's my number one recommended starter army Are you specifically recommending iron jaws or or what are you recommending iron jaws? Not the other two the other two don't exist in that but just the iron jaws Yeah, I mean here's the problem if we were talking iron jaws, it would be like this It'd be up here. No question. Yeah, okay If you're talking Cruel boys Then it's gonna fall down To here all the way. Yeah, okay Like probably dead middle tier getting higher cost, right? And if you're talking the savages, it gets easier but also like More expensive probably just because the sheer amount of figs you gotta buy. Yeah. Yeah, just number of boxes Yeah, yeah, so like to me it's in this weird liminal state in between Very like perfect starter army in iron jaws and pretty trash army To try to start with in the savage orcs, which is really hard to run like you can Flood the board, but it's really hard. You got to get a ton of figs. It's a ton of painting Right and you got to actually know how to use your your models Understand the weird tricks that people use to succeed with the army. Otherwise you just lose over and over again So what we're gonna do here is we're gonna take this Okay, and we're gonna we're gonna duplicate it. We're gonna put the other one Down here. Okay. In fact, we're gonna put it right about right about there. Sounds great There we go. So it gets two spots on the chart way to go And yes cruel boys, it's not like they're super hard to play They just they more get they more suffer from going up in cost. I think big they're hard to play Well, because they are such a weird fragile army That can like just fold Like a piece of paper if you don't careful with them. Okay Soulblight grave lords Where's the spg's going tom? Where are they out on this on this rotation? They're middle right Like I don't know any other army that I would say that's just much more like middle middle middle Okay, middle Here's where I say they are. I think I think you're right I think they're dead middle drifting southward on the play Because they do still have a 2.0 book And one of the problems with 2.0 books in the 3.0 meta is you have a 3.0 level of complexity And then you've got to stack a 2.0 complex book on top of it. Like there's a lot going on in that book Books are more complex Yeah, and so like to me that drifts it down here and into higher cost Right and that's that's the problem. It is it can be a pretty expensive army Because it does have a lot of units. It has a lot of heroes It has a lot of kits that you're going to pick up individually You might need to get a lot of things painted depending on what you're running You know, if you're running a lot of blood knights fine, maybe that's very simple But then tomorrow you might need to switch and all of a sudden be running 120 zombies. That's a whole different kettle of fish Yep, right. Yeah So it's it's like to me that vastness of the range pushes it down here more Sure. Sure. I would buy that. Yeah, like they are pretty expensive to get everything you need out of that army Okay All right, next up Let's grab this is their new cover. Not that we we don't know their new book yet But we're gonna so we're gonna this is based on current lumineath. I just grabbed their new cover book because it's a cool image Um, so we're gonna rate them based on their current book tom this Change like this could change when we do the lumineath book next week There's a bottom farthest right you could be Yep, I agree Just like based on their current book that is the easiest place On the entire chart. They are if there was ever an opposite to iron jaws, it would be lumineath realm lords Yep, it is the book of hold on. I forgot a thing Yeah Yeah, and yes zombies are fun. I love painting zombies just to go back to solar real quick Because I see some people talking about them. They are fun. You can airbrush them But it's still a lot because then you might also need to do some dire wolves You might also need to do some black knight, you know, like Like on and on models for part of your army. Yeah. Yeah, exactly for for not many points Nope, which is good. Can I rotate the lrl book 90 degrees? Sure. We can tap it there. It's tapped now It produces it produces the only manna that the lrl book produces is sadness, okay But don't worry that that girl is there. She'll she'll take it away Yes, you will Okay, next up tom boom daughter's a cane new book. Where are they going? I mean, I would say that they are They are middle middle Slightly to the left of ease of play Uh Like that middle and then take one step this way super or down Uh No, so they are um No, they need to be middle of the road. Sorry. And then you go one step right Okay. Yeah, as you're saying I I might even take two steps right. Honestly, this is a pretty expensive army Rathiana cheap kit snake ladies aren't cheap kit. Yes things like the war cry box as we mentioned in the star collecting can ease that pain But you know, again, you have a lot of witches. There's a very expensive Witches anymore like that's not the world we live in I understand. I'm just saying if you collect the army, you're probably going to do at least 30 or more Yeah, you're probably 60. Yeah. Yeah, and that's still those are 65 for 10 It's not cheap. I I remember and and like On the I will say they also aren't the easiest play in the world. Honestly Um, they're very fragile. You need to be on the like it's a it's a finesse book and finesse book anytime you hear the words finesse book That like is worth three points on our scale Right And so like I don't think there's anything wrong with a witch heavy strategy I think a sister's slash witch heavy strategy can do very well. It just means it's cool It just means that's a lot to paint a lot of very soft You know detailed figs that are all female skin and stuff like that, right? It's not it's not it This is a tough army to paint an expensive army to collect Right. Yeah with a not the easiest play experience all right Ogres again, I grabbed the new book because whatever who cares it's cool cover. It's the new covers are cool Uh, but we're rating it on the current book. So Current ogre book. Where's it going? What are you feeling here? Uh, here's where I'm putting it. I'm putting it right here in this current incarnation Well Okay, tell me why sure It straddles the line between sort of tier one and tier two on the ease of play It's it plays straight war hammer like good old classic Yep Its rules are not very complicated, but it's play experience to pilot it to victory Can be a little tough. It has your monster truck option, which is very simple in execution In fact, I need to move up because I'm really trying to split 50 50 on that line Yeah Um, there is a lot of like secondary access secondary market access to the book because all the sculpts are a million years old All right, but not but not so old that they're bad You know, I mean like I think ogres still have a pretty good look to them. It's a lot of flesh It's a lot of flesh. It is It is Um, but they're bigger and there's less of them. Yeah. Yeah, and that does make it easier You're effectively painting like almost 54 mil models You know effectively. Yeah You can do a lot more with an airbrush. You can do a lot more. They just like washes make things very easy with them Yeah So to me they're sort of they're sort of straddling that line now. We'll see how it uh You know where it ends up. I see we got the iron guts man in the chat question If ogres were good, how hard would they how hard to play would they be? That is a good question. I don't know. I don't know. Let's see that new book Yeah, exactly. I guess hopefully steward we get an answer to that with the new book that fingers crossed Let's hope for both good and easy. But yes, it is a very simple army, right? It wants to go run forward and punch people in melee melee So like that's what's saving it on the ease to play chart. Yeah, right? Yeah So say right about there. Okay, cool. Sure. Good stuff Sylvaneth I don't know man. Oh, I've got an easy rating for this one. Okay Sylvaneth still remain even in their new incarnation fully in the hard to play area Okay, and they're expensive and they're expensive too And the reason they end up in both of these categories is the well one They're just a very expensive army with a lot of expensive kits the bug riders and the new There's just no easy way out of that. Yeah, you know Little shooter archers and stuff and yeah current offs and all this But they also rely on very strangely timed fairly complex rules interactions with strike and fade and all your woods you've got to buy Right. They moved up for the woods. Even you know, you need less woods now, but you still need woods Yeah, right No, and you have to like know where you can place your woods and how you can teleport near them And then which unit gets pulled on the strike and fade when saying in blah blah blah blah Yep. Yep. Don't don't disagree with that at all. They're all down there. Okay. Good. Good Heat knights of slinnish Uh, just put them right next to Uh, Lumineth. Yep, they belong here Uh, slightly easier to play slightly less expensive But but not really because you have to summon with them, right? Well moving him back up. There we go. Yep. They're back up. You saw me. They're back up here They're all the way over. Yeah Ridiculously large range full of trap units that are over litter like very expensive Wild swings and what's good one addition to the next one book to the next, right? Just the wildest of swings keeper of secrets is the best thing you need three of them They're utter trash don't put you need zero. You wouldn't even summon the thing. Okay And uh, you need a it's a huge summoning army for as we all know slinnish the summoning engine army Of course So you just have to have a 2000 point army is not valid. Yeah, you have to have a 3000 point army to start Yes to start playing. Yes indeed indeed So, yeah, they're they're they're all the way down there. That is just a horrible Horrible starter army. Yeah, okay Very good. Boom grabbing them cities of sigmar. Where are they going tom? What are we doing with cities? Like I think it's deceptive because if I actually raid them on ease to play and cost It that's not going to actually represent my recommendation for for them as a starter army Does that make sense? It does Because for me, I would never recommend cities. I had somebody actually reach out to me about buying the anvil guard box Because it's not a part of buying the great water fastest Yeah, the dwarf box and I was like don't do it because we just don't know what's going to happen in a year one Very actually tricky army to play between the fact it has something like I think off the top of my head at my last count it had 972 war scrolls. I might be miscounting slightly, but I'm pretty sure I'm close and The fact that the range is so big that all the and then and then it can bring in 50 other armies, right Can also have charadron and sylvaneth and storm cast. It's just like sure everybody get in here Now what's saving them is there is a ridiculous amount of secondary access to this stuff for old bad sculpts That you know are about to all go away Right, right Right, so like you can get it cheap for the next year Yeah, but like it's actually a difficult army to play with a ton of trap units a lot of bad choices A weak internal balance, right? Uh between all the different units it is It is a rough army for a new player. Yeah, I just I can't recommend I'm gonna put it dead in the middle on cost because It is Yes, a bunch of old crap is cheap In the secondary market, but also all that stuff is bad will go away And if you actually tried to buy the whole range and like have a legit Complete a city's army. It would be catastrophically expensive, right? You'd have 10 000 points. Just base. Yep. Yep Okay Bless you your courts. Tom. Where are they going? FEC Man, I I'm gonna be honest. They're up there with uh, you're uh, you're like I mean, I'm putting them in between orcs and uh, and iron jaws or iron jaws and and Magikin like they're one of my favorite armies to recommend because it's so easy to get it Yep, I agree I'm gonna rate them a little bit harder than nergal or iron jaws Just because they do have a little more trick trickiness to them with their timing and the ways of their abilities work and stuff like that Right, um cost-wise They're they're quite reasonable as we mentioned the start collecting is like a very easy access to them To to basically the army and like painting like they take well the contrast and dry brushing Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They're they're a great great paint another one of those like very easy starter armies to paint ghouls super simple to paint crypt horrors and crypt fiends and all that very easy to paint so Yep, yeah, they're they're they're you know, they're they're not as strong certainly in the meta right now But they are they are a war scroller to update away a book away From being in a the best starter army, but the problem is once they do that Uh news flash you're gonna lose you're getting started box. That's perfect right now Yeah, sure. So like if you're interested in this army buy four of those boxes yesterday Yeah, that's why i'm moving them down slightly because autumn because I agree they are like playing them well requires Kind of more skill than iron jaws or nergal where you can just with iron jaws. It's like alpha go, you know just just mighty destroyers and Buff pigs and screen. I don't know. I don't know double piling and terror guys Fully buffed up still do some work It's good, but it's no maw crusher backed up by six pigs, which is what you can do in the other army. Sure, so Okay, cool news each Yeah Um, I would put them Down in the green Uh-huh. They're definitely in the green zone Yep, and I would put them like but but I would say like to be honest. I would put them like just a touch higher than cities Okay, I'll buy that because I I think that they are much easier to play than they were and they Um from a cost standpoint like it is a summoning army Um, but there have been a number of boxes recently So I don't know. I like I think that they're a little bit better off on that on that end of it Yeah I'm gonna rate them up here They are expensive. They are a summoning army. I agree with you They're a little bit easier than cities, but still it's a very complex army to play It is it does still have some trap choices in it It has complex interactions with a lot of magic the most complicated sort of phase the game It uses a lot of weird rules The summons are expensive. You've got to paint a ton of horrors. I'm talking myself into moving them up here actually Uh Like moving them over here. Hmm So, yeah, they're they're down in the they're down in the like complex pile. Yep. Yep They're down in the nightmare starter army pile Yep Okay I D K I denet deep kin Where are they falling down? You know, honestly, I would put them Uh, I think that they are from a cost standpoint. They are certainly better than cities Uh-huh sure, but I still think that they're going to be in that harder to play section Yeah, I think they they straddle the line a little I think there is a little bit more fire and forget to them Right, so they're they're a little bit up in this zone and a little bit cheaper Um, but they do take they do take nice to contrast though They do and they're a very pretty army. It's aesthetically pleasing. It does have it does have some complex interactions That's what got them down here, right? Like there's yes, again, it is definitely a finesse army. No doubt Yep, it feels very much like daughters in that regard. Yep. Um, yeah, and you know, it is a very fun paint But it is also a lot Um So, you know, there you go. Yep Okay, cool Uh, ostearc bone reapers. Where are these guys going tom? Oh, we are. Um, well, they are hard to play well um Yeah, they are but they are Have they have some pretty straightforward tactics? Um, they're not really affordable to buy if you're gonna buy a bunch of more tech and Yeah, I just I don't know man. They're just somewhere with fire slayers and with all of that If i'm being honest, yeah to me they they end up in this zone right here They straddle the line between tier two and tier three of complexity. They their their strategy is not the most complicated thing Okay, like it's they are pushing things forward and regenerating Right, exactly But they are still a 2.0 book in a 3.0 world with like a lot of weird patches sitting on top to try to make their complicated rgp system work, right? Right, right They're not actually crazy expensive because you mentioned like buying a lot of more tech But you actually don't buy that many more. Right. It's only like what 40 now Yeah, it'd be like 40 is what you would buy or something like that, right? 40 50 somewhere in that range and uh And uh, Ben Staffordson do fec have any magic from their ghoul kings or whatever I like ghouls from total war, but i'm not going to pretend that's how sigma works. Yes All of the ghoul kings are also wizards. Yeah, they're uh, most of them are multi casters Well the single the regular ghoul kings on foot are single the arch region is the double castor Yeah, the arch regions double the uh, the mounted are single as well. Correct But yes, they're great Yeah to me Like they're over here in sort of the the cost is actually quite manageable for osi arc I mean again, unless you just go without with any of these armies if you go just whole ham and go wild and buy everything To the nines, but it's not a summoning army. It's pretty controlled. You get away with like the more tech Or maybe if you're if you're if you're the hot sues, you've got 18 Do you see his army over the weekend 18 choppy boys? I didn't He had 18 of the uh, the the choppy boy guys the the guy on the cover Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's named me, but it doesn't matter. Yes the four faced forearm guys with their choppy blades He had 18 of a minimalist and uh went 5-0. So hey, you know, there you go um All right, cool. Next up one for you. Tom. Coradron overlords I mean, I'm gonna put um Right next to oc arc. Just literally right next to oc arc more expensive though, right? uh Maybe not honestly All the votes is what i'm thinking of here. You're gonna buy you're gonna buy an ironclad. You're gonna buy a frigate and then you're done Like for like regarding boats, you're probably not doing the fleet of like eight boats. You could sure But most of the time like a mix of a couple of the star collectings and all that like It's not gonna be as expensive. You're gonna your entire army is gonna be like 40 models. Yeah Yeah, okay um, but it's gonna be uh I mean, but I guess it's not as hard because you're just gonna push things forward and shoot Yeah, that's why I put him firmly in the middle tier of complexity. Yeah Because I like shooting is an easier learning curve. It's you just kind of what's my range 12? I move up to that plow plow. Well, that's what I do. Yeah, but it's but it's still a knife edge if you make a mistake You're sure. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree. That's why they're in the lower half of that that section Yeah, okay cool beans Uh, serif on Where are we putting our lizard boys? What what army? Indeed I'll answer since tom doesn't believe serif on exist. They are way down here in the hardest to play Like they're actually an extremely complicated army right now. I can't think other than lrl They have to be the most complicated 2.0 Like book that's just floating around They're so ridiculous in their interactions and complexities and Like all the different rules stacked on top of each other the different prayers and activate this and activate this and this buff and this Buff and do this thing and double shoot this thing and But they've been around forever They have there isn't like cost-wise. They're not actually that expensive to acquire right They and they don't have to be a summoning army like yes, you can summon What you're going to tend to summon is 10 skanks if you're in the summoning build Yeah, but you're just as likely to be in thunder lizards Where you're just playing big stompy monsters, right? But even their monsters aren't that expensive They still have the old school monster costing on all their kits and you get most of the monsters from just buying the start collecting boxes right Like everything so Yeah, exactly everything you have at the stake on so to me Uh, they they sit here cheaper than cities but more complicated than cities Yeah, I would agree with that. Okay all righty storm cast eternals Uh top left They are easy to play. You know, I disagree You've got lots of options They there's a flexibility across the range. I still think that they are just simply one of the best starter armies in the game Wow. Wow. So here's what I'm saying. I'm I'm they've lost a whole tier. I agree with you They should be on the left side There is a million options to get these guys on the super cheap now. Okay Um, the second hand market is flooded with them. You can go buy brand new dominion boxes I've seen them on sale for a hundred bucks right And and it's not like you're getting stuff you're not going to use in those boxes Yeah, you have you have stuff that you can use Like it is a forgiving army It is you got a lot of guys with good saves You got a lot of easy easy sort of mobility options and dropping options. Here's the problem. Tom You have 73 war scrolls in that book. Sure. Sure, but like the new stuff is good stuff Like you don't need to worry about But not all what if somebody says I think vanquishers are the coolest thing and go buy a bunch of vanquishers I think 10 vanquishers aren't terrible. I I think you're wrong, but uh, that's that's my easy answer to that The the problem is that book has too many choices too many options and that's what loses them a tier, right? Okay, like I guess like I agree iron jaws Um, and flesh eaters definitely don't have a lot of seven units I understand. Yes Um, and my can definitely have more options. Okay, like that's fair. That's fair Like they there's just so many trap choices in this book, but painting Easy fun great. Like yeah, great great time. They're they're very fun paints, right? Like they take a scheme well Yeah, absolutely 100 good schemes out there. They have painting guides on everything and they they paint very simply for new players They're a simple silhouette, right? Collection wise cheap as literally the only thing bringing them down is the fact that the book is just It's just all of nonsense. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There are 20 things you might play out of 73 scrolls. Sure. That's a problem Sure. That's a problem Okay gloom spite gets Really good, Tom. It needs to be um It needs to be almost uh, it needs to be the left of seraphon Like way down here in hard to play but but not as expensive. Yeah Yeah, because it's like the like most of the range. There's just tons of it There's been a bunch of just random collector boxes And stuff like that over the last couple of years that have been available with the newer sculpts Like and it go back to the 90s for plastic goblin stavas. Yes. Yeah. It's just it's fine Like but it's it's it is a hard to play army. It's Extremely tough. Yeah Kelly says we need the ale guzzler tier the new tier uh so You know like It is an extremely tough army to play you have keyword bingo happening everywhere Your units are fragile and die super easy. You don't get any good rules Yeah, I I take that back the base of that needs to touch the bottom of the map Got it. We're we're we're kissing all the way up against. Yes. Yes. Yeah Yeah, because it's just it just doesn't get harder to play just because it's not forgiving It because you're even an army building. You're just trying to find synergy Sure. All right Beasts of chaos The beasts I mean, I'm gonna put them at the same level as OCR like I I could and maybe make them a little bit Uh higher cost than OCR because they I think they're I think they're up here like they're You like they they definitely like beasts have a Uh, they have a lot of choices that hurts. Yeah, right. There are there are many bad choices in that book Like yes a lot of traps lots. Okay lots of traps But the strategy of beasts is relatively straightforward The new terrain we mentioned does make it so almost any unit Suddenly becomes at least minorly dangerous, right? And so new players will feel that you'd be like, hey even my you know Even my my best gore sitting over here doing work, right or whatever. Okay When they come in at like rend three Yeah, uh They are a very mobile army Right. Yeah, but I'm gonna move them down here just slightly. They lose a slight point because again, they're drifting toward that finesse army space where everything's very Fragile and stuff like that or difficult to get its most Yeah, I mean they may have the usage out of it. They need to be down near Selwyneth if I'm gonna be honest not think about it Just from a heart feels like it's just so easy to lose with them. Yeah Does brianess said does having rules in a quickly aging white dwarf knock them down at all? No, because the scroll is the new scroll now. So and the monster thing is all is all in the And it's gonna be and that scroll is gonna be in all of the app. So that's what matters, right? So it is easily accessible But yes, I hate that. That's how that gets published initially. Um, as I've said many times, I hate the tome celestial All right Down to five tom. Here we go slaves to darkness It's hard to recommend them because There is a new book coming I mean what I'll say is this most of the models have been there forever Yep But a lot of the stuff I would want to run a lot of it's newer or some of it is at least Yep And so it's not gonna be as cheap to access I don't know. I like slaves feels like just a very middle army. Yeah Yeah, I agree. I think it's slightly below middle in its current book We'll see what the new one looks like it is still relying on there's a lot of different interactions It's still in its 2.0 book. Hopefully world gets better in 3.0 Uh, you do have some big expensive models I drifted them towards the right some because you know, I don't if you want your archie on that ain't a cheap kit You know, there's there's like there again. It is a very large army There is a lot of trap choices in this book, right? Yeah, and so we'll see how they do in the new book But right now they're drifting over here Yeah Even though they're good It just list building in that army is is very complicated, right? Because you have 18 different war cry groups and wait, how are they battling? What's going on here? What's this mark of chaos stuff? You know, like it's it's a lot to explain I'm talking myself into lowering them down even more. Yes, you know, I agree. I agree Okay, they get they kind of get in that pile Okay Yes, and they are definitely not the easy paint jobs. I agree with that Uh blades of corn in their current incarnation tom again, we're not we're not we're not future stonk in this one Where are they at? Um, they need to sit they need to be half like half cover over um Glooms fight gets And they are very hard to play army, but they're fairly affordable. Thanks considered Yeah, I thought about just like bottom lefting them Because there's so much around for so cheap, but they are but they are more than that But they are still summoning. They are still summoning So you're going to need to paint multiple things. Yeah, um, and Yeah, I just like I would put them like just just a touch obviously over globes, right? I think that that's the right answer More expensive or less expensive They're uh, they are less expensive than uh globes, right? That's I okay. I agree. Yes But and they're like not quite as hard still quite hard Again, lots of bubbles lots of ballet lots of things you're keeping track of weird rules synergy All that kind of stuff, right? Okay And yes, don't worry coolish dan. We'll do a recap. All right night haunt spoopy ghosts where the spoopy ghosts going uh, I'm I would actually put them directly immediately under um Like and what I mean by that is like the top of one cover is the bottom of the other immediately under magickin You're saying they're here Uh, I think so because of the delay. Um The reason why I'm saying this is that like they are super easy to get Yeah, right. Yeah, and once you understand their mechanic, it's very straightforward Like I know I know it sounds like it's complicated to play Yeah, right you got a lot of rules going on you do but you really don't be as so much of it as passive Other than you're charging and you're charging like once you start doing it. It's it just all Like it's all intuitive, right? You don't have a lot of once per game abilities Okay Um, it's everything generally is like flying everything is ethereal everything is movement eight except for hex race or right Yeah uniform pretty uniform movement. You get to ignore Rend you don't ever think about that. That's not a thing Like mystic shield meaningless Um, you get to cut out a lot of rules of the game. Yeah, that's fair right like you're just like You don't play in the shooting phase Like it like it's even though it seems like it's a complicated army. It's really not it's fairly straightforward It is also a very easy paint one of the easier more fun One of the easiest armies to paint one of the easiest armies to acquire financially Yeah, yeah, because because there were a bajillion models from the last edition that nobody played Sure, sure Okay, all right. I'm with that Yeah Sons of behemoths again current incarnation Uh, I would put them up in the easy to play at the top Uh-huh And but I would put them to the right of my again just because like you're in for 400 dollars Or no, you're in. I'm sorry. You're in for 800 dollars Uh, well, yeah, I mean it's assuming you just like pick up for four megas or three megas and three babies or something Right then depending on what that that boils down to it's all going to end up in the 600 to 800 dollar range now Ironically, it can be if you're willing to do third-party proxies Which we're keeping out of this discussion because that could be true for all of this Okay, all of these would do wildly Like printing and other all other bullshit. Yes, we're not so we're not talking about that Although I will just quit quickly here make a mention Right that there is no army where the cost savings are more pronounced Than with Sons of Batman Right Yeah, where you go from a 800 dollar army to an 80 dollar army Yeah Just going to your store and buying like four of the big Like D&D figs giants or bones giants or something like that, right? Yeah, they're like 20 dollars Yeah, so you buy a pipe a pipe a base glue them on you're done. Yeah, so But anyway, we're not again to rate these costs. We have to keep everything the same, right? And so the Sons are up here. I agree super easy to play like it's it's walk forward stand hit things It is the simplest of things It's also only four to six models to paint I suppose eight at the high end when eight is your high end. Sure So, yeah, okay absolutely And then finally Save the best for last completely randomly Skaven Skaven are they are at the bottom bottom middle they're uh a little bit to the right of Cities they have tons of trap units. They have tons of Models that you need like if you're just randomly going to paint an army. You're in the hundreds of models Sure Like unless you know unless you're uh Yeah Like and in general so and it just the finesse that you need to to play a Skaven army Well in general makes them more difficult They are they are still rules complex because they got like somehow even though they have a new book in 3.0 It feels like a 2.75 book They still have a lot of crazy interactions rules stuff like that Uh, so, you know, they they as you mentioned, yes, they are um They are Uh So many models so many out-of-date old models that are very expensive. Yep. Yeah, it's it's In fact, let's scoot them down. They need to be they need to be over here. They need to be over here more Yeah, it's it's a you got to be in it for a love of the game Brandon. Vince. How tall are you? I heard you're super tall. I'm not super tall I have Thomas taller than me is is the fair thing If you want to be real about it, but I'm a little over six feet tall and tom, you're wet six two six three Six four. There you go So there you go Uh, okay Uh, so There we go. Let's complete tom. We did it. We tiered him out. This is the official This is the official ranking. We'll have this memorialized for all time. Yep. I mean the summer the summer here is this Um, the things that have been awesome are still awesome iron jaws fleshy your forts night haunt Magikin of nervel we may have even probably made that magikin too easy um sons of behemoth and What was our other one ogres ogres? Yeah. Yep. Yep. Like Oftentimes those have been a lot of where those spaces have been um Yeah The Yes, so and then that leads us down into storm cast here sitting in this very odd position Because of their their one of these rare weird armies. It's very low cost. We've still drifted up on the complexity curve Then you get down into the The middle cost clump Of complexity, which is beasts charadron ocr a lot of 2.0 books hanging out in here, right? These could move These could move with new books and then eidneth landed squarely in this territory and then we get down into the The new player hell Right, which is slaves to darkness, uh, bone splitters or cruel boys fire slayers soul blight daughters silvaneth zinch scaven slanesh and lrl so Yep Oh, yes, there are armies are created equally Yeah, Artorias again, it's not the stormcaster that hard It's that it's very difficult to understand what you should like, especially if you're a new player if you're starting your army It's extremely difficult to look at that book and go. Okay. What are these are good? Like I was just this week Which of the 70 scrolls do I run? Like literally this week I have been helping a storm cast player who is just starting aos build their army and Leading them and navigating them through the units and why they want these things But not these things and where they need to get these two things together and what to take was just uh, like You know a nightmare Now it's not as bad as if I was trying to walk them through slanesh Which I have also done like a two months ago I had to walk a brand new never played aos before player through how to collect slanesh And I was like, all right tuck in I Here I can I can separate the difference you ready tom When I was helping the storm cast player. I was doing it over chat like I was typing to them. Okay When I helped the slanesh player I said stop we've got to do a video call I can't type all this out Okay, we've got to get on something where I can talk to you or you're never gonna get this Yeah, I mean the reality is is that in order to be in that upper quadrant for me, it's There here these three products that I recommend you buy Yeah, sure Sure, you know like where it's like buy two of these dark collecting boxes Buy this other kit and buy this and you're good to go. Yeah You know that's your first thousand points and you'll be fine Ryan do it got a quick recap of those decent storm cast war scrolls Ho boy. Sure fulminators slash you could use any of the righty drakoff boys Annihilators or annihilators with grand hammers lord relector never the knight relector knight and cantor Lord bastion carthalos chad sigma vindictors Liberators ironically the old one of the oldest models in the range, but still good dragons Let's see what else prosecutors can have a very valid purpose in the game. They can be fun chaff Uh There's more but that's that's a good initial like quick run There there are there are there are many there are 10 15 more that i'm not mentioning that could have Easily a place the problem is then there's another 40 after that that i'll be like no Right, but there's a quick run Okay, cool Uh Well tom we did it. We tiered them out. There you go. All right folks Well, hey, if you didn't hit like yet, you should do that. Do you have a different opinion? Drop it down in the comments below. We'd love to I'd love to know what you think about our About our list So As always thank you very much appreciate it tom go back and enjoy your vacation. Thanks for sticking it out We went a little longer than I want it, but not too bad For all of you out there. Thank you so much for watching hit like hit subscribe do the fun things hit the fun buttons Don't forget we've got a patreon if you want to support the channel focused on hobby review and taking your next steps on your hobby journey There's a merch store down there, which is another way you can support the channel Don't forget to get your votes in For team tom or team tyler the only way we decide things in society which is through capitalism At the end of the year. We'll be seeing who's the better co-host Uh, but as always I thank you so much for watching And we'll see you next time