 Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Real Talk. I am your host, Eve Nyaga. So they say that disability is not inability. But what are we doing to make sure that we create a life that makes it much easier for persons with disability in our day-to-day lives? You can be part of this conversation by sending in your comments, questions, but tell us where you're watching us from on e-sacute across all our social media platforms. Or you can talk to me directly at my social media handles on Instagram and Twitter and Eve Nyaga on Facebook. So today we will be talking about breaking the physical mobility barriers. And in studio with me, Astela and John, they are presenters as well and they are campaigning tirelessly to make sure that they break this barrier. So welcome guys. Kindly introduce yourself. Hello, good morning. My name is John. I am a complainer for this company. Let's say I am a complainer for this creating awareness on mobility issues. Specifically mobility issues. Just hold your mic like this. Yes, thank you. My name is John and I am a complainer. Close to your mouth. Just hold it like this and close to your mouth so that you can get you clearly. Thank you. Good morning. My name is John and I am a complainer for this company and we work together with Astela. So I just like you to tell us about part of your presenting job so that we can get the campaign much later. What do you do professionally? Well, I am not a presenter not yet, but I am in school but I do DJ. Yeah. Alright, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Hi. My name is Stella Tioi. I am a student at TON passing journalism and media studies. I am also a presenter at NKBC for Able Differently. Nice. Welcome to the show. So what do we mean like you to tell us Stella what do we mean when you talk about mobility barriers? Mobility barriers basically includes all the environmental physical barriers that include that hinder any person with physical disability from moving around comfortably from living an independent life so that's what we mean by environmental barriers. So could you give us examples of maybe those things that might hinder you from moving around comfortably? Let's take an example of an institution. You find places with stairs you find that people with wheelchair people who use wheelchair cannot access that building and let's take an example of public transport let's say Amatat you find like my friend here Stella needs another person to help her and yet we can get maybe lifts to help her and again when it comes to maybe washrooms visiting a washroom is somehow private so you find that you cannot visit a washroom without help and that is not very good because it hinders your privacy. That's true. So Stella tell us maybe some of the challenges you face in your day to day activities when it comes to mobility. There are quite many but I'll start from the most important based on the fact that I'm also in school and what I've observed is most of the higher lining institutions are not actually accessible and the only way we can empower persons with disabilities is of course through education and that can only happen if we actually create an accessible environment in our institutions so that is one. Most of the institutions are not accessible high institutions and that is a limit. Secondly is transport you know public transport is just hectic. I'm sure you find it hectic yourself. So you can imagine in my position in a wheelchair it's a rainy season like today. Yes. So you're just there and the people in Matatu's are like oh she's in a wheelchair I'm getting in and all that so they'll just pass by. So you know if we can have an accessible transport that we can easily get in and out that would be really nice. There's also as you said stairs they're quite everywhere from stores. I can't just go to town go into a store comfortably get some private items I have to send somebody. I mean we're living in an era where I don't think we should be doing that it should be accessible for everybody I should be able to wake up in the morning go to the store get whatever I want and come out even in the apartment. Yes. So I feel like if I feel like creating an accessible environment is actually one way of making PWDs independent that is the only way because most of the time people think that we need help but it's because the environment is not even accommodating and that's why. So you're saying that people should stop feeling like you need help because if we make this environment a little bit easier for you to access then you'll be independent you can do 90% of the things I think that's what people should get straight that's not I mean that's what people are not getting So if our environment are made accessible for us I think it should be good. So how do you cope with those challenges and I'm guessing maybe you're facing some of those challenges yourself How do you cope with some of those challenges? So sometimes you just ask for help and sometimes you don't access in a building like I can go to another building maybe let's say I need to access a cyber and the cyber is on the second floor and maybe I have physical disability so I cannot use the stairs for long so I just prefer sometimes you just prefer go to another building where you can access That's true That's better. So when you talk about the campaign which I want you to tell us more about those things that are necessary to make mobility a bit easier for you guys Well, the campaign is called Accessible Kenya campaign that emphasizes on creating an enabling environment for PWDs and we are basically focusing on physical environment and physical disability So a person with physical disability somebody using a wheelchair or somebody with crutches basically those that find challenges with movements So what can be enabled is of course by putting up ramps and one thing I've realized nowadays it's a law every public building should be accessible and what I've realized is now that people know that they don't want to find themselves in trouble they're putting up ramps but now the ramps are as good as stairs it's like very steep I cannot even get in by myself I still have to look for somebody to help me in So you see it's not doing any good people are putting up ramps that are not you know they're not supposed to So if people can good ramps can be put up that would be really nice Also stairs in buildings that have like 14 floors How do you guys get up in a 14 floor building Like don't you guys get tired We also get tired anyway So I can imagine how it would be for you Right Also some of the public offices you find that some maybe others have finished school they go into a public building there's like a whole lot of stairs and they cannot get in So I mean there's a lot to be done and it can only happen if ourselves speak up because mostly we just sit down and say national council bodies are there to fight for our rights but they are not doing okay enough is not being done so I guess we really have to speak for ourselves because we are actually the ones facing the challenges and no better Because they don't understand like you do So whose idea was it to come up with a campaign Well it is both of us We are alumni of an organization it's called Youth Exchange and Study Program So yeah we proposed all along and it went through So John tell us what were your main goals when you were starting this campaign I know the biggest one is to talk about accessibility Yeah Did you have any other goals other than that Yeah I did Let's say my main goal was to see people living with disability happy When you give a person an access to something that person goes home happy Many people are hinted by these physical barriers and you find that they cannot achieve their goals Let's say a person comes from high school and goes to maybe a higher learning institution and finds that institution inaccessible So you find this person Anapotesatumutisha and that people have potential and in order to realize those potentials you have to give that person freedom and I find if we get rid of these physical barriers you're giving people freedom and they end up living a happy life In any case that is the ultimate goal we need to be happy in everything that we do So have those goals been achieved even if not to completion but are you seeing something from the campaign Gaging from what you've seen at least you're being listened to you find people are responding positively and you find that maybe a person saying now I saw this and they say now we need people to our work is not just to speak now we need the implementation like you find out we're just saying now we need an accessible environment but who will make this environment accessible so we need now the implementation part So that is what is missing people are not implementing whatever you're actually telling them and it's also good because majority of people who speak the same language other people physical disabilities actually really agree and they in full support because they understand they face it and they are like this is a really good cause and it can bring change So have you ever approached maybe like an owner of a building maybe to provide rams or like a person who is in the transport system I speak all the time concerning buildings when I go to a store to get something there are so many supermarkets and stores around town that are not accessible so whenever I go into a building and I find that it's not really accessible for me I speak out can I speak to the manager or somebody in authority I usually do that but unfortunately the next time I go there the stairs are still there so nothing is being done so I guess the question still remains yes who is supposed to do it the implementation right and when you talk to these people do they give you a positive feedback and they tell you they will do it actually they do and they seem to be kinda afraid because people know the law they know they should be having a ramp the building should be accessible how do you call it is it ignorance or what let's just say it's not ignorance it's just that to make a change you need finances you go to a building and tell that person we need the ramp and the person tells you no need to be a person you store the money and you find that person is feeling you is kind of empathizing with you there is not much they can do there is not much they can do that because they believe they even cheaper ramps that are made from plywood I think they cheap and keeping in mind it's a business organization I mean they should be able to provide or keeping in mind it's a government I mean it's a government thing come on they should be able to put it up I think maybe they feel like for example like a store operations are there from maybe around 8 to 10 in the evening maybe they feel like they can't stop business to cater for just a few people to cater for a few it's just complicated but they should be but the people who should be implementing that are the people who are coming up with new buildings each and every day that's right so which organizations are you working with that comes to the campaign currently it's just the youth exchange and study program that's the funding and partnering organization at the moment yes and are there any other organizations that you're targeting to work with that might make the implementing a little bit easier the implementing so far not yet and you know I'm hoping with these interviews and all that maybe you might be able to get some but you have other organizations that you're working with that also work towards the same girl disability or other organizations we have one called the cluster foundation it's a spinal injury kind of organization yes there is that they are really open to support anyway from sharing information to is there like maybe do you have as much as you're saying that implementation is not being done is it like 100% not being done or there is actually a place where you needed the ramps you needed the elevators maybe in terms of transport and they actually did that like a success story maybe I'll talk of my institution it's not very accessible the time I joined but I realized when you continually what do I call it I won't say complete exactly when you continually talk about it is when actually people realize oh this is a serious thing we should actually look into it the first time I went there there were no ramps so at least by now they've put at least two ramps which is good but there are other things which I'm still championing about because there's a lot to be done like what there's washroom accommodation because I won't use the same washroom you're using you'll go into a washroom just get in and get out quite easily I'll need a more spacious washroom something that I can transfer comfortably to and out where I can shower comfortably so those are the things that need to be looked at what about in apartment buildings maybe are these things being implemented? we can say they are implementing them but not most of the apartments a selected few are there really apartments that are implementing? some got elevators you haven't come across any have you come across any John? one in Pekka but you find now let's say they are a bit expensive they provide all the services but you find most of us cannot afford so I think they should be affordable to everyone I wanted to ask about the transport system how should maybe a vehicle be comfortable for you to come in and go in together easily I don't know if you've seen some vehicles that have a lift kind of thing so basically it lowers down I go in goes up and then I go into the vehicle I'll decide whether to transfer into the chair or not just sit there I think that's also a hard one when it comes to the public transport system it is not hard because we have had some schools in Kenya that already have schools they already have this kind of vehicles and it's not a big deal I feel like it's not such a big deal we can get it it's only that people need to be open and you need to speak more about it yes we need to speak more which is what you're doing right now is there anything else you'd like to tell us about the campaign that you've not talked about yes we've not talked about how people can support us you can reach us via our social media handles Instagram accessible Kenya campaign please follow like post or repost to it in Twitter also accessible Kenya at Kenya underscore access and in Facebook also accessible Kenya campaign how is it that you'd like other people to help speaking out or implementing how exactly would you like if I wanted to help for example how would you like me to help I'd like you to help by of course speaking out reaching to more people because right now we really need the targeted audience we need to reach out to the right people how you can be part of it is of course coming to us trying to reach to your circles alright thank you so much for making time to be with us maybe you'd like to share your social media handles personally individually individually Facebook you can find me at John Latangatia Twitter the same Instagram the same what about you Facebook STL chess chess one word T.O.E Instagram Amawila underscore and then Twitter STL T.O.E maybe you can tell us your final thoughts and you share with us your final thoughts so that we why well my final thoughts are just to encourage you the viewer you know you don't have to be physically challenged you can you know join this great cause because sometime you're going to grow old you won't be able to climb the stairs so it's not just about people with disabilities it's for the good of all of us so please be part of us you go into a building you find that there are no ramps you just try to put yourself into someone else's position someone in a wheelchair or crutches you find that they cannot you know access just try reach out to the management try to talk to them building is not accessible and according to my knowledge all public building should be accessible so I mean what I'm trying to say is if we all speak out towards this there'll be a change definitely well she kind of said but I can just that together we can do it yeah together we can do it thank you so much for making time to join us thank you for having us we'll definitely preach about the accessibility yes and we wish you the best in your campaign thank you thank you yes please follow like share share especially so that's all we had for you for real talk today this morning but don't you go anywhere more of Isakit coming your way