 That was more or less it This this Oh if and check the first room. Yeah, this is a How much they they said it's gonna cost how much they needed and the third one is accumulated how much we paid and this is like Accommodation food and travel what they requested some people didn't want to Well, they know the ranking yeah, probably but I've all individually it's okay, I guess But so yeah, so that's That's the ranking. That's how we did it Everybody voted between minus three and three we get the median out of it, and that's how we rank it everybody But from that and that's what the buff is about I build this list So there is recommendations for the next people to do which is not really important here It's more about how much time you you're gonna need Especially for the Germany guys well you already being through that so but for for the Germany beat to have an idea of how much Time it takes to get ten people to agree on something There are notes for that but The main thing is For me most of the ten people had different Dimensions right some people care if you were coming from us or not or America's Some people cared if you were your first time or if you were from some type of diversity Some people cared if you were a strong contributor or not Some people cared if you are willing to pay money or not So I more or less synthesize it all those dimensions here as form of questions And my first thing was most of this should be possible to be automated likely inside summit itself the first My main concern is if we publish these rules because if we tell them like this is the rules You're gonna be bound to would people then try to cheat us would they try to lie Do we care about that or not? And then I'm not sure how to collect this answer from the project or from the chairs or from the comfort self But we probably need to ask this somehow and find out but so the first thing which is very strong is That confident us if you're coming from America you got high points So if you're coming from South America Central America North America We got you got better points than other people This should be fairly easy to find out because people has to tell them like I'm coming from this country So that is an easy one to rank when they don't forget to feel the few Yeah, exactly Right, right, yeah Right, okay, that's that's a good point And probably we can separate those things in terms of this is just gonna be used it for us to dirt Mind if it's a fair price or not. So That's that's doable And now so another challenge here is we never had any that comes at Asia or Africa so when do you prioritize those guys like when do you tell it's time for Asia because it's always expensive New Zealand was a we had a big discussions around a request from New Zealand because it was quite expensive And then it was like oh, it's easier for them to go to Germany and then our team was a split it No, it's cheaper to go to US. No, it's cheaper to go to to to Europe. So I think maybe both I don't know I remember for New Zealand, so Right The other thing which is a very recurrent and people usually penalize like the it not only this year from past years. I remember that usually people get Hard heavily penalized it is if they are not willing to pay a part of their trips So if people ask for their entire like all my trip is gonna be a thousand dollars. I want a thousand dollars Usually half of the team will penalize heavily against that Meaning that if I'm coming from Brazil and and Martin is coming from Brazil and I asked for a thousand But I'm willing to pay a hundred I probably will get scored above him if he's not willing to pay some part of it Does does it matter do we care about it? Because we don't enforce my main point is we never enforce this if somebody gets a cheaper ticket We don't enforce it so You go first and then Marty Everybody given that we didn't have any rules in place the first three team members Could use whatever bases they want for their rankings. Yeah, that's fine But this is something I feel very strongly about that. It's not appropriate for us to penalize somebody Or because we are second-guessing their cost especially since there are a lot of other costs related to travel beyond The only thing we reimbursed is we are reimbursed the cost of a flight If it takes them if it costs them fifty or a hundred dollars to get to the airport because they have to take a bus Or they have to rent a car or whatever there are there are costs that they really own meals while they're traveling to the airport There's lots of other stuff that goes into travel that are costs that we're not reimbursing And I don't think it's fair for us to second-guess and say for somebody especially in in countries where You know, that's a lot of it's a lot more money. Well, I guess I guess cost of living means it Maybe it's maybe it is or maybe it isn't but Anybody who's traveling they're they're invested in that whether they're asking for the full price So they're playing ticket or not unless They're getting a ride to the airport in their town, right? Just this is a little bit different from what we discussed over the list This is like the person asked it for an 100% they didn't ask for everything Right, they said I'm willing to pay a hundred dollars. That's it How much they say they're willing to pay of their own ticket price, right shouldn't affect. Oh, right. Okay. Okay Anybody that's traveling there's costs associated with that beyond the ticket price, right and there's cost associated with taking the time Huge fan of free stuff, you know, like Travel given away for free Usually that leads to more views than if there is a certain they sell committed to it Now, this is not really a formal self-commitment though saying yeah, I can pay 10% It would be much better if like they said We reimbursed them a hundred percent afterwards, but that's the Nigerian scan My point is though to get to the airport. Yeah, they're already doing that if they make it to the airport They've done it So I don't think that should play any role because I mean that otherwise you are going to be What if what if these two Brazilian people you were talking about what if one of them, you know Right, right. So that's why and I mean all those questions they did to get some feedback because when I'm wrote in this Proposal I would try to say here is the feeling around this topic and then that's my point is say like We kind of think that this doesn't matter. So for the next time the rule because this year we didn't have a strict rule like it's like Every team member had their own vision and then they rang for the next year I would like to have some rules and as much as possible be automated. So there is no We reduce the margin for interpretation Which country There is a topic about that also you'll see in a minute The other thing is does it matter if you're a double-comf newbie this year? We didn't had the new BQ which seems to be very successful for another years I think we should have it again And I think bursary should take care of it as a separate queue Like we don't need to have other people involved in this process and make it confusing for whoever is subscribing But then for next year, we should be sure to make it work and advertise and this kind of stuff Because this year we try to do that with a few people I think this is the first time this person is coming and and and that also correlates to the next one For a few people we had this like We should bring this person right this is a minority like we have it is not well represented that among us So we should bring This person and then it was everybody fell the same way. So it's something that the team cared about So probably something we should think but then what types of diversity we cover, right? It's not that just gender. There's other types and then it starts to become tricky The one big question is what Martin mentioned is Are we worried about people taking vacations on us? Like we are paying for free vacations because you're not covering every single corner and checking everything Because once we approve it, we are very relaxed. We basically tell SPI or FFIS is like here's the list of people if they send you a ticket and then reimburse them We don't really go through a long Detailed process to do that. So Another common topic that came this year, I was like should you penalize people that don't answer all the questions We had a lot of that people that didn't provide all the money information we requested people that Please explain you why do you need the sponsorship? Some sometimes people just said because I'm a DD Is that fair it's not this is this is another of our concerns Some people said and that's some people said it's like I work the entire year for Debian for free I have my job and I spend a lot of time on my volunteer. I think I'm entitled to Other people actually told a little bit of their lives to us like things like I have kids and I'm unemployed And then I really want to see you guys again, but I don't have the money. So we get access to those details. So That's and that's that's exactly the next point but before go ahead Sponsorship that was what do you do for Debbie and the answer was I have a needy I believe when we wrote that question the purpose of it was to make sure that the Bursary's team had enough information Know who the person was not for them to judge Their qualifications. We've had discussions in the past about this that was how I remember that we were We want to ask the question to make sure that the person who submitting themselves that the Bursary's team has enough information And they can inform the opinion not to judge Whether they've given enough detail Like from my perspective if I know the person is a DD I don't need more information to evaluate whether they would be right But yeah Yeah Their activities during that Because then I don't know How we scale this but it's true like I'm all I owe I this is also something that I am I have concerns about and It's true that most people get closer shit like here We don't have any means of controlling what they do so they can't really expand the whole day outside and or Your pilot night and don't attend to talks or walks or whatever. So if we had a way of not really keeping track but That it very encouraging very much people to publish what they are doing then we could maybe next year have access to what they did Let's see here. They will Sure, so Murray then Dave then yeah, I think I Personally think it would be fair and appropriate for us to ask people who take Travel sponsorship also in fact people who take food and accommodation sponsorship to have effectively a compulsory Reply her report of that I've come up afterwards. Of course, this wouldn't stop them from having holidays Like just a few come a paragraph or two on what on that I've got This clearly would not stop abuse because people can invent something But I think apart it would discourage abuse a little bit And also it would help us a lot for going to sponsors in the future to say look at all these useful things People have done who you paid for you would put it in the final report. Yeah It's too late now to I think that's And it's not a condition because all we're saying is if you would like to Beneficially Okay, this is actually for next year Dave so I think that Sounds like But I think is if you're not Then you should be willing to say what you did at the last And some people have tough time remembering but then I mean I think that's fair as part of the process. You're you're applying for the seventh time for sponsorship to DevCon and so What did you do last time and it doesn't have to be anything Baroque? And I think that would Remove some of the enforcement questions is just a question on the forum You can either fill it out or not and we can You know tell people we're going to ask for this So encourage them to make a blog post that they can link to that would be completely okay from my point of view but also Yeah, and Before Martin do still have the pointer you already mean yeah So I mean the other thing is as long as we agree with ahead of time I think the rules are clear like if you're applying for these you have to do that And if you don't submit your report, we are going to penalize you next year then it's fine it's fair game right the rules are ahead of time and The thing that I mentioned that you said like about details is that how much details do want to know about why people can't Form like does it matter for that? And if you are poor or unemployed or anything like that because we do ask that in a very vague question And people like share details or sometimes they just as I said said like look I said that and he I know I can quote him. He said like I'm the DPO. I work a lot. So I hope I can have the sponsorship Murray Yeah, I think on that point. I think more important in a way than Exactly what is the rule on that? I think it's more important that we had a kind of a level Agreed rule for everyone at the moment. It's very opaque and some people Feel personally that they shouldn't apply for travel sponsorship because they have enough money and other people need to travel Other people who with good jobs in Europe or the US apply because well, they're worth doing work for them Yeah, and that is that part is not fair I mean at the moment they will probably be treated fairly if they apply But many people do not apply and it's unfair. Some people feel they are entitled to isn't apply and get the money every year And other people never apply. Yeah, that's Lucas find me during the conference the look Lucas newsman and then he He told me he asked me about how was the process and and if you could have bring more people and we discuss it a little bit And one of the things that he asked me to do is for next year to ensure that we had thevertize heavily that people should apply for a sponsorship so that we should tell people to ask for travel sponsorship because Debin money is over two hundred thousand and he wants us to spending this money to bring people here We needed for India in 2016 Go ahead I mean I'm fine with advertising that everybody should apply, but I think we should agree that everybody should apply before we advertise it Yeah, I think this goes back to the question of how much does financial need matter in the allocations Go Marty and then Marga Any other Conference, I think it's important that we work very hard to have as much money as possible so that we can buy it for as many people as possible And then this regard I would be just pretty interested. I stepped in two minutes Maybe since the beginning, but it was my understanding now that we didn't use up all the money that we could have used for a travel sponsorship this year and Even though we had like some people in the list That was probably because of time pressure and everything and what can we do to? Have anything yeah, I had two specific suggestions that I've made on the list That let's just hear Marga and then you can go So I have two comments one is that maybe we could ask people To be volunteers like for the beauty more from this for something in return for getting the sponsor trip Then the other thing is that for me Financially it should be a very important point. So Participating in deviant is a very important point Financial need is also a very important point for me I think we should try to bring as many people as possible and if you can't afford it Then why should they pay for it if you can't afford it if you can't afford it then We want you here. So we pay for it But it's very difficult to assess and you have this what if people self-assess and What I was going to be people that like don't think that what they do is valuable enough But others do and they're going to be people that over State what they do. So it's very hard to get that right, right I think the two points are related or is Well, so I was going to comment on what can we do about spending money right and making sure we spend the money That's in our budget and the two proposals I had were first of all Look at our historical usage of our travel sponsorship funds and set an over-commit level that we give the bursaries team Based on those historical rates just to say yes, you can approve One percent or three percent more than what's in the budget knowing that we will have some cancellations because we've never not had them And the other thing is to have stronger expense tracking Earlier to the point where we know exactly how much it's costing us out of our budget for each person so that as we identify People who are not attending or as we get as we get closer down and we see like date ranges of people actually attending versus not we can Move the money from the the accommodations and food budget over travel sponsorship because based on just that alone We had enough money to sponsor another five people But we couldn't be sure of exactly how much money we had in the budget for that until it was too late for them to get reasonable tickets So Murray and then Marty. Yeah, I don't know again. I still Personally question how things are really work if we just say that everyone by working for Debbie and irrespective of circumstances is eligible Yes, we may have 200,000 in the bank account But you could easily spend that on what come in this conference probably the amount people spent on travel would be a lot more than that I will say personally I haven't yet applied for travel sponsorship for that car because I thought I was in a Reasonably well-paid stuff in Europe. I am not deserving compared to other people of Debbie and targeting me with that money Of course if it's now, but if it is announced as a policy everyone working on Debbie And is ought to be getting troubles one chip then I would apply And I'm sure many other people would suddenly start applying and you then then you actually will need to Filter it and then it becomes a bit pointless that you've told these extra to apply right So what's gonna happen if we introduce a checkbox that says If you don't get sponsorship, please still come we've tried that and what happened People say they won't come So the intent of the current wording on the web page is how much is it gonna cost you? How much sponsors of money do you need to attend? Deb-con so the intent of the current questions is to ask them to provide needs-based information to us as input I Don't see any reliable way to Ever be more precise than that. I mean having people evaluate their own need People have different views on on what their their needs are so like and just because they have money doesn't mean that They don't have other things that are also important for them to spend it on if they have a family if they're if like it Is a significant cost to their family for them to spend the time away to conference and as a result They have to give up something else then It may be that if they don't get sponsored, they're not going to come does that mean that because the reason they're they would not come isn't due to the balance of their bank account does that mean that We should reject them. I mean, it's a very Everybody has their own personal circumstances, and I don't I don't know that always saying that looking at some how much money Somebody makes is the driving factor for whether we should sponsor them so maybe instead of trying to solve that problem which I think we all agree we can't solve and we should focus again on the expecting certain things from sponsored attendees which includes volunteer session sign-ups and Includes a little report that they should send in and it's not a requirement per se But maybe we could at this conference already say that you know write your reports because when we have your report from last year How about the stuff that you've done? That's a very that's very very important piece of data for us to decide you next year One Especially the benefit moray writes down that you know, he's he rewrote that No, but that's by all means you know the heck you should come again But again, I think for the I for the financial side, I agree it's not possible to Without giving some completely ridiculous ten-page forum and lots of numbers you cannot evaluate people's true circumstances However, it does seem to me personally that Debian does not sustainably have money to sponsor everyone who is contributing to Debian Therefore seems to me personally that we again. I'm not saying this is wins everywhere else I personally feel that we ought to be prioritizing people who have some financial need not merely because they are Contributing and I think if we set that as an expectation and Document that we will already filter people who really have no justifiable financial need Obviously, what is almost a file mean? You have no way to measure this Well, so you say we should tell us everyone I you say I'm saying I'm saying however you were to you're gonna get some people who are gonna feel bad about asking for the money And you know some people who are going to feel that what they do is important And we have no way to effectively evaluate this by any sort of objective metric So no matter what we write people are going to decide to ask for whatever money they're going to ask for it We have no way of telling whether it's just a client or not Well, but I'm saying that we are already asking the kinds of questions we already have questions saying how much do you need? Adding different words doesn't change that it's the same fundamental problem There is no moment. There's no documentation anywhere to tell people whether or not they should yeah Everyone should apply or any people who ever make a need except except for the emails or the forms that we send There is no details on this is what we encourage This is the form here. I'm just saying the emails that are sent out and so on do not specify You know who we want to apply well, okay There's a reason for that and that is if the three people currently Discussing things can't agree on a standard. What are the odds that the project can right? There's a deep lack of consensus On this issue. So I that's why it's not Express clearly. There's nothing to express It does seem unfair to me if it's just because the people who Brazenly apply Are the one that automatically gets funding and a lot of other people are not currently applying So they feel they're not appropriate. So the point is that you want to encourage more people to apply than I'm Okay with that. I agree that Messaging that no way encourages me. I personally don't think it's sustainable for everyone to apply I think it's not but if that's if the if the team cannot implement any policy does not agree on any policy That then it should then we should whether on the team tells them other people should be saying everyone should apply I don't understand what's not sustainable and everybody applying Everybody applying doesn't mean everybody gets sponsored It's just more work for bursaries Yeah, yeah, it's definitely more work Yeah, because then many people that could afford it's gonna Yeah, he's gonna have a truck special strip. So people who really can't come without Right, so we are trying like we're raising money for people who can and at the end those who can Yeah, shifting money So I think I'm at least I don't understand Saying everybody should apply as saying he doesn't matter and so I think it's a question of where this filtering happens and I think that Maury Has a point that people self filtering Is not a necessarily a good algorithm because if you're I mean names for some people, it's obvious Like Borla right no the other guy your boss So but for a lot of people right here it's tough to say and So what we should do is in the evaluation path process use that as part of the ranking like we do now in some Kind of mission not very good way right I agree, but if we could agree at least that the idea is that It's part of the ranking that would be progress I mean that's a different question rather than saying You should only apply If you can't go otherwise right and that seems like not a great algorithm because It's not an easy question to answer anyway, right? Right, you might be able to yeah, I think go and like with a lot of sacrifice Right, whatever sacrifice means. Yes for you Let me just wrap this Because this is the last thing So those are ideas this is different from what happened that it generated questions This is actually ideas that I don't think we ever try And I don't know if whoever will but So when I say self-assess, of course, I don't mean We'll take that as whatever you self-assess it in rank But it's like would that work to ask like how much we're involved in or how much you plan to be involved next year Ah Should we switch your percentage values that is the discussion that um, I had with Steve and on the list which is if you say you can pay a hundred dollars out of a thousand But you get tickets for eight hundred dollars. We ended up paying your entire ticket Should we say instead of its percentage like I can't pay 90% of my flight ticket doesn't matter How much it is and then if you get a cheaper discount will also get that been also gets a discount So for me Right, I mean the point is you can still say 100% right Then we will have to deal with if you get a more expensive ticket So it's a two-way problem. I'm not saying it's better or worse I'm just saying if we can save money together But we also means that then we'll have to make a reserve like that kung fu have to have like I don't know 10 20% reserve because we will get a lot of more expensive tickets, right? So I don't really know There is a few things that we can do but the other thing is I don't know if it's right now We all rank all everybody. Maybe it's easier if we rank at them in different dimensions like two people rank on geography three people rank on budget three people rank on activity and team membership. So this is more about internal dynamics and the other thing is This is more about system-wise and instead of having the ranking having a yes or no And then you go back to the budget team and they do whatever they have to which is like you should sponsor this people This is high priority and then then this is the next and then this is the next and whatever you do We don't care. This is the final list and this is a the big discussion and topic that we Discussed and Steve is very strong about never reducing the amount of money that people requested And he already explained why and then I I Think that in some cases if you walk for 50% Instead of nothing would be better And we we didn't have time to keep arguing about that because we had to do other stuff But that's that's not a better outcome But there are also cases where that could actually be a battle absolutely result of author get it results in hardship And I don't think that we can distinguish those cases with the information that we have which is why I think it's better Do not do it. Yeah Why would it result in hardship because if you ask somebody My plane ticket. How much is your plane ticket $1,000? How much of it can you pay $200? And and that's what they say they can pay and you come back and you say well No, we can't give you $200 or we can't give you $800, but we can give you $400 And that person really wants to go but the first time you asked them the question They honestly told you this is what I think I can afford and we offer them less money than that What are they going to do they're going to look at that and they're gonna say I can get to dead pump if I just make if I stretch my money a little bit farther And in some cases that's that's not a good thing for that contributed to do and I think it's not good for us to Encourage our contributors to sacrifice that much Beyond what they can just raise the amount that they asking for just in case if you change your mind Yeah, yeah, so the last thing that I thought it's we don't have a database for sponsorship So we don't know from year to year what happened Which I'm willing to go and try to pursue as much as we can find and then we would have a database of hey We sponsored this guy every single year This time he's gonna give his spot to somebody else right we can try to make those decisions If we have this because right now we are basically on an empty canvas every single year Like we don't know what happened some of us remind but we don't and also changing systems doesn't help with that We can dig we can dig this data. Yeah, I'm pretty sure this data is around somewhere When we last call her like two three years. Yeah, at some moment I started doing that because I remember about about this about this in this content that repeat a lot of the Conversation we are having so I'm willing to work with you on that because the year I have work in the committee I have this data Okay, great. I think we need to keep some kind of historic track It's track because there are people that when the rest come is out of Europe. They are not they're asking a sponsor chip But when he's in Europe, they are not in a sponsor chip So which I from is a quite good for European people, right? There's also the contrary Something I say for the other I think is worth mentioning Is that we should consider changing the way that asking a sponsor chip works right now? You do your registration and the only thing you need to do is invest your five minutes in Putting some data in a in a word formula. It means it doesn't require you a lot of effort and you have a lot to win There are people like more I'm already said that it's okay. I don't need the money I won't do it but for plenty of people is just click on you might get money I also don't like of the system that is no way of feedback between them The works at his team and the person asking asking a morning Sometimes it happens for example when I went to the content. I asked for a sponsor chip I bought my tickets a lot of spending on bus because I saw a very good friend So I didn't ask a lot of money for a different Spain as somebody from the community The community has me. Oh, it's your own right because we didn't ask a lot of money But is the only time I have seen somebody reaching out other people I haven't done that Yeah, we did that this year mostly Steve and I feel like Martin also did We had like I think less than 10 people that we had like questions One one case was somebody that asked it more money than the flight ticket So the flight ticket was a thousand and the person asked it 1200 1200 and it was like is this a mistake and then we actually find out that The person was considered all the other like taxi to the airport price to get a visa So the person was like, okay, my flight tickets a thousand But I actually need a thousand and two hundred to do all the stuff that I actually need to travel Which was I think first time I saw that But we reach it out, but I agree the system should have some easier way to Know everything So this year when we did have doubts and where we were confused about the information or we thought it looked strange We did reach out to them and ask for clarification by email So they had an opportunity to respond We had a couple of people who had strange requests for food sponsorship But not accommodation or we wanted to know why they were not asking for accommodation because we thought if they have the money to Apply for a hotel should that affect their ranking for food and accommodation as well We had the other we had the other way around now So they didn't ask for food and we said oh, I didn't know I thought we were saving money. No, no, no, it's okay You can ask for food so A few cases like that a few with some strange prices tickets So you're almost off of time So I will roll the three last comments and then we kind of closed session Luciano to easy somehow and The I also remember that one when I was also evaluating people I remember that it was hard to know if people is in deep and nearby why the present was so different and they don't think So maybe we can extend the system to tell more information. Okay, which which which flight are you planning to take or? And which how much is each flight how much is what why is your stops on that more information that you show that you Yeah, you make some research and investigate which one is the best option and even we can share that information with others Coming from the same place or nearby. I know that everybody from Europe for example take the plane from Amsterdam to here So obviously we wish we can share that information and we can also Force or enforce people to to do more research. That's just This is still just being the black, right Yeah Or any kind of feedback that supposed people Should be the encourager For sure to do the other thing is As I think the team could agree in some goals What is this team working for and why the response of people so that it would serve as guidelines for people? to see if they not that I Am I like eligible or not to sponsorship? But is it the thing of giving space for more people if I can pay or like some What why do we sponsor people and should I ask for some sponsorship or not? if we can can agree in various goals of this committee this this Or this effort of that point organization, I think this could already like at least serve and we believe that the trust people to be sensible and to be Fine and Dave the problem is that many people apply and We may trust some of them, but probably not all of them So but I think it would already have help because what we have now we don't even have this Yeah, so people can just I don't know. I thought you had plenty of money And why not if there is money? Yeah, but if we have at least the goals here Why we and why it's not sustainable that every single DD apply So maybe you should consider that you can contribute a little bit so that you live for Who else need more Dave so I think we should Harder to get something concrete down What? How me Even if it's white They and it's not satisfactory to any one of us having nothing there is worse Than I mean, it's I think it's a big Problem with the current well, I say the current the process for the last five years So I don't know how we can move forward with this, but I suspect that Anyway, so it's not so much a question is I think this is a problem People because we it is a problem, but it's not drama. I mean people is not it's not like stop eating for coming here and then it's Yeah, and this this is kind of a lecture. I don't know I take my ticket and I spoke sponsorship if I don't get the sponsorship I Put money in advance in David and I've maybe not be able to come the next year But it's not like I'm pretty sure that is not Or it should not be a Decision for the economy of anybody to be here Well, I think but Okay, so we're way over time. I think I'm talking about something different. So so you're you're talking about what it means for need for individuals I'm talking about Supposing we could define that What it should how it should matter to the committee right and we have a range of options I think nobody thinks it shouldn't matter at all No, at least I haven't heard anybody suppose that I Don't say that it would be crazy, but and some people think it should be Marga explicitly said it should be one of the main criteria right and so I don't know if we can I Think I have to do better than we do now in terms of people knowing as Mars a going in a little bit about How much this matters and that will also help people fill out the form in a more sensible way if they know that this is We base a third of our ranking on your financial. Yeah So to wrap up there are like I will try to provide as much data as I can Publicly about this year so parts of that form in terms of medium Request and this kind of number so people can have an a public idea about it and that can goes into the final report and then I would try to synthesize what we discussed it here and then Thinking about some goals and then especially for me It's very important to have the rules like this is how we try to grade you and then and then mix that with the Goals of like our primary goals to fund people that cannot come without this sponsorship our second year goal So try to reach consensus around that And then so in the third thing is we'll try to find some of these questions one little thing that I remembered I didn't post here But she were discussing is that one of the things that I would like to try for next year is ask some volunteers to go and like Get a list of all the countries that people are coming from like what 40? And then we split among 10 people Every people makes for research about how much is a flight ticket and we have a million or as Luciano suggested We crowd search that and have everybody put that so we can calculate a medium So those things can work and the last thing is For the next year one of the things that I'm going to propose which I know is controversial is having Two people on this committee be sponsored by Debian So we don't worry about last-minute things like all you're asking for travel sponsorship So you can organize this which will be my case I won't be able to go to Germany if I don't ask for travel sponsorships I won't be able to work on this thing again. So and I know that it will be a problem for other The our Auditors team ask it for nobody on the bursaries can ask for travel sponsorship So I will ask this to be sponsored directly by Debian, right? Yeah, I remember that era but this year they requested to not even be penalized that you can't be part of the team You can have access to the numbers. So The auditors. Yeah clean clean and somebody else asking for this Discussion of this topic Martin I think you have the last word and then we are done Because I did want to say thank you very much for this work It was awesome to be working with you you took it up and you drove this And for us at least being just being part of the bursaries team It felt like you know stuff was moving and I could have a little bit So I hope you're gonna keep doing this and I you know, I would say you should just get sponsored Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming You