 Wel? Very good morning to you. Thank you so much for sticking with us. This is why in the morning, my name is Rammago Kukul. It's a pleasure being with you today. And of course, thank you so much for tuning in. We are coming to you live from the Kenya Broadcasting Corporation here in Nairobi, Kenya. And of course we are streaming through our website. That's www.kbc.co.kefastlash y254. Inaweza, kwa goesi oma mahal na meda malfakukuta, mahal na tukcia na ubaina politikia zada reibast jacket wa wujakia wajakia. Ibani na wa fadeowa, mahal na mtubutia wa shirillia. Tukcia kniwkya kabumартadu mahal na bujuUni mahal na mtubutia mahal na mtubutia. Ubezanuku kweziti na majuata ni tan wawu kafa ni tan waive kamaurana ni kikulanti ilama wajakia wakamaa kwa kwa kulta kwa kavushiai na mingan kele kwa kinauni. Mijiwadi, pula kisha nile, na kasaiman nasuwezaweza waia kasaiman na majuata na majuata na majuata ni nilawezaweza na maziawadi na majuata. Kaja bingatura ni naka tukuwa nufuwa k Morning me, Olivia Mukami is a student leader at the University of Nairobi and to my far right I'm with the Dairain Hart who is a council member at Tugutuke, yeah Karibunisana. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thanks so much for coming, I appreciate your presence. Let me start with you Mukami. Tell us something before we get into the integrities, something a bit more about what you do and a bit more about yourself for somebody who's meeting you for the first time today. Thank you very much for inviting me today. So my name is Olivia Mukami, I'm a student leader and I'm actually vying for the gubani tourist seat in the main campus and I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a youth entrepreneur and encouraging youth and I'm in politics as well. It's coming up, we have an organization called VoteWise Kenya. So VoteWise Kenya focuses on educating youth mostly, on voting wise making critical decisions on the ballot mostly and if they have already failed we also help them to correct it. We help them to correct it. Yeah we help them to correct it when they see it. And the gubani tourist that you've vying for, when are the elections coming up? So they're coming up next year but already we have started the campaigns so the ground is how it's right now. Oh wow, wow, wow. I wish you the best. Thank you very much. So why for something but let me come to you Darren, something about what you do and yourself for some people it's missing for the first time today. Yes, my name is Darren Hutt, I'm the people's president at the University of Nairobi, just as we have people's president Baba and now recently I was appointed deputy country director clean up Kenya, I'm also the youth board chair YMCA Nairobi South Branch, I'm also the council member Tugutuke movement, I'm also the founder and director Darren Hutt Foundation. Thank you so much for coming and I appreciate your presence. Let's get into the integrities of this particular discussion. First of all let me start with you Mukami. We have the under days of the government, the UDA government in office. In your opening remarks so far, do you feel like we are setting the right pace and that we are on the right track? Well no, I don't think we are on the right track, I would give it a fail. I think we have failed, we have failed terribly, terribly, I would give it a 20 over 100. 20 over 100? Yes. Why that was very low for, that's very low? Yes it is because we won't quote anything right now because they have not delivered, they have not delivered what they promise in their manifesto, we are educated people here, we read those manifestos very well and as the youth of this country as students of Nairobi University political science department, we are landed, we are landed fellows, we think they have failed terribly, they have not delivered what they promised. Okay, okay and the opening remarks there? Okay according to me checking within 100 days, I can't say they have failed terribly, there are strides that have been made considering the pressure and economic situation in the country, I can say, I can give them some points and I can also say we are on the right track but on the slow pace, yes but I am seeing the future, if the president continue doing whatever he is doing, we will earn something out of it. Out of 100? Yes. Percentage? Okay, out of the nine things the president promised, he has delivered four and… I am looking at the percentage, before you get into the specific ones, how would you rate them? She gave them 20 percent. Okay, I can give them 54 percent. Okay, now you can proceed. You said they have delivered four? Four items have been delivered on and others have been worked on, so out of four I could say they are above 50. This includes even the hustler fund although it has its own disadvantage or maybe the nitty gritties of it but I can give them, they have tried, the president and his government have really tried to be where they are considering the economic situation in the country although I feel that the pace is slow. So you wouldn't agree with what she is saying, 20 percent is too low? No, that is too low. It's too low. No, I don't think it's too low. That's what they deserve. That's what they deserve? Yeah, I think they promised more than they could handle. Okay, let me look at some of the things that we are looking into today. We have the appointment of, the appointed pending court of the appeal judges, court of appeal judges and they were appointed, we saw them, isn't that a hit, a good record for the government to be able to manage to do that? Yes, it's a good record and the president promised and he delivered with no fear. You know when we have strong judiciary, we will have a small rolling of the country. Yes. Not a hit? Yeah. So that's a hit for you? That's a hit as well. That is a part of the 20 percent. Part of the 20? Yeah, that is the part of the 20 percent. Okay, okay. We have the appointment of the court of appeal judges. Yeah. We are looking at the operationalization of the judiciary fund. Now it's operational. Yeah. The judiciary fund. You know we've had a discussion and I remember the former CJ was talking a lot about that fund. What do you, you're taking the gas to that? I think first of all say if you strengthen the judiciary, that means you strengthen them. It's a very important institution in the government. It's one of the institutions that a country needs and I think the fund will seriously help, will help very well in the operations, the day to day operations of the judiciary because it was stuck, it was stuck for a while. And apart from the fund, apart from the fund helping in pushing things, I also think the judiciary still needs to be worked on and the fund will help, will really help. All right. Darin? Okay, that is a hit and I think it's a good move because once we empower the judiciary, the judiciary will have its own mandate to carry out its responsibilities. We've seen in the past whereby we have cases that have taken longer, they are being postponed every now and then, some courts are not working, there are not enough lawyers. So you see if we strengthen the judiciary system and we make it independent as it is, then Kenyans will get justice. Now it's operational and we are looking at something that might be able to fund, although that can fund their day to day operations and for me that's a good hit. 100 days. All right, speaking of funding, Hasla fund. What to make us as a kuhimama by Hasla fund? Let's talk about that. Hasla fund. Well, well, well, that's another thing I don't agree with. Hasla fund was, it's more of a reward. I can't call it a fund, it's more of a reward and according to my viewer, these Hasla fund will later come out as, remember when we had these COVID millionaires, soon we will have Hasla millionaires. I look it for me, I, you know, you don't look something near, you look at it from a distance. You foresee a scandal coming up? Yeah, I foresee a scandal coming up and it will be a big scandal. Maybe, you know, no more Kenyans might not see it right now, but people who understand very well this Hasla fund, it was not a good idea. According to me, Hasla fund was a very good idea from the president. Very good. I give him 110 percent. But I would like to criticize. I was not even on the bat. There's always a bat somewhere. There's a bat, it's not straight. Where I want to criticize the Hasla fund is the money is too small. And number two, how it was put into operational to Kenyans. Number one, it did not go through the parliament. Number two, we don't know the agreement between the corporate bodies like Safaricom and Airtel who are dishing this money. And where is the source of this money? Kenyans don't know that, and that is what they are talking on the streets. How much is the interest? And if you want to get how much you see the 50 shillings when you get the Hasla fund, the 50 shillings goes to the savings, right? Now the question will be, I'm the one who is saving and I'm the one who was asked for the Hasla fund. Are they taking my 50 shillings by force or willingly? But you know, it depends on the person that has taken the Hasla fund. Yes, it depends. Every person has a different allocation. OK, now the question arises, where is this money coming from and from which banks? Does it matter where it's coming from? Yeah, who is even managing it? You know, who is even managing it? Who is even managing it? And the other question, I don't know if Dara will agree with me on this. According, this is not 2000. This is 2023. 2022, sorry, we are going to 2023. 500 shillings. Our economic situation right now is so bad. We have a calamity right now. People are hungry. When you give me 500 shillings, the first thing I think about is going to buy two packets of Unga. I don't think of investment. For you, the first thing that you mentioned was one of the first thing was where is it coming from? OK, where is it coming from? So, for somebody who needs money, will they think about where the money is coming from? The Haslas, the Kenyan Haslas. So if it was coming from a particular bank, would you take it as opposed to if it's coming from through a loan from China? Unga kata? These are Haslas? Swezi kata, Swezi kata. That's the problem. That's the problem. It's a fund. I'm not supposed to repay it, but if you want to pay a two-bure, they would have given it. If you want to pay a two-bure, because it's not helping at all. And then, there is a problem with this thing. They said during the manifesto that every person will be able to access this money. Every citizen utatola wa kwa CRB, that has not happened. There are some people who are not able to access the the Haslas fund. Some people are not, because they are looking at your savings. It's just like emsuree. I don't see anything wrong. It's another emsuree they have created. It's another emsuree. It's another emsuree. It's another emsuree. It's another emsuree. It's another emsuree. I think they would have done something better with this Haslas fund. Okay. For me, I'll still support the Haslas fund. It's a good idea. My problem is one, the mechanism at which it is starting from. That it just did not pass through parliament? Yes. That's the sovereign power of the Kenyan people is through parliament. If it did, let me ask you, Darren. If it did, would it be something you approve of? Yes, because through the parliament, it will have been criticised and discussed and also people's views on it will have taken to account. So that people will know this Haslas fund is gotten from this place. There is this interest. The government has agreed with the corporate bodies like Zafarkom and Airtel. When you do it, your savings will go like this. Is it willingly or not willingly? Because I'm the one who is getting the loan. But the Haslas fund itself is an empowerment to Kenyans. Because with 500, as much as she says it's small, with 500 you can start a business of kus and easy. Then it's a good thing. Then it's a good thing. It's only that you feel like it should have passed through parliament. But now that it did not, it doesn't negate its goodness. It doesn't negate, but now the process is behind it. It was a bad club from the start. The strategy of Haslas fund it was, but sometimes I will say, not all of us are business oriented. We are not all business people. You understand that? So for example, Darren thinks that with 500 he can start a business. Not everyone thinks that they can start a business. Not everyone is a businesswoman. Not everyone is a businessman. Not every youth is a business person. They think they can go and buy, they can go to Gekomba, they can start a small drift business. They can go to Marigiti and stuff. We are not all of us business oriented. What they would have done, they would have done something common good. You know, like Sako, the Sako thing. So optionally it should be Sako. It should be a Sako thing. You know, Kenyans are known with Sakos very well. It would have started with Sakos, like 15 youth come together, do something, being given the Hasla fund thing. It would have come as a Sako thing, but not an individual thing. Because right now, most youth, you know, you could see online when the Hasla fund came. People used it that weekend. Can a Sako... Just to correct, you know, Hasla fund has the interest of a Sako also. Yes. So it is there. The Sako can also go and apply. But there is an approach she is talking about. Highlight the approach. Because the Sakos can also apply there. See? But now she is talking about approaching it in the form of accessibility. The way you access loans through a Sako. Yeah, the way you access loans through a Sako. But also remember, these Hasla funder, they are checking at your credibility. So the Sako thing has a question there, because if they check if you have a loan, if I have a loan, if you know it's... The plan was bad. It was not strategized properly. I still don't agree. Because I think the Hasla fund came to that local monainji. We even don't know the bank for some of those people. And that's why the president was saying the process will be easy as dialing one, two, three on your phone. And so if you incorporate things to do with the Sako, you know, you're excluding some of the people who cannot go to the Sako, they don't have even an ID. Or maybe they are under 17 or something. Under 18, maybe in town there. But they have a fund, they have a will to go and start that small business. But they have a fund, so they can just dial and get the money. The money is okay. What I can propose on it is to increase the limit for those people and also to tell Kenyans how it operates, what is the interest. That is it. Is it zero interest? Let's talk about the interest rates. Some Kenyans are complaining about the interest that is too high. Is it okay for you? Of course, I know you will say no, that's why it's okay for you. It is a bad idea. So from the start, the game plan was bad. So it's spoiled to wherever for me. Okay, for me the interest is low. But I will suggest it to be zero. Let that money be just, you take it, you reverse it the way it is because it's from the government. And what did they even call it a fund? But also when it has an interest, we are also earning as Kenyans. We are getting something and that something will build our country so long as we don't have the corruption. You have a problem with the name? I have a problem with the name because if I'm funding you, what do I need interest? What should it be returned as a low? It's a fund, it's a fund. You give it, you're funding me. So it is not a good idea. So for me, I don't think I have anything. For me, I'll still support the interest but it should be a little bit smaller because we're also building our country. We are caring for the future of this nation. And if we get this interest, it's not going to the pocket of someone. If it's going to the pocket of the government, the government will be able to improve some of the facilities in health, education and whatever. So long as the money is helping us and growing the country but not an individual. All right, something else. We are looking at those who are put in CRB. The government, the UDA lifted the, those who are blacklisted, we are looking at a number of approximately 4.5 million Kenyans that are lifted from the CRB blacklist. Thumbs up, thumbs down, mukami. It comes down. Why? Because you know... You want them to be on CRB? You know, if you asked for a loan, you asked a loan from someone's business, these banks are businesses. When you took a loan, you knew you'll pay back. So what are they trying to promote? Are they trying to, you know, banks are also owned by people. You need to pay back, pay back your money. The government is helping the hustlers who cannot manage to pay back. Hence, them ending up on CRB blacklisting. Why can they create a plan? You know, they can create a plan but what are they teaching Kenyans? What are you teaching Kenyans that you can be deleted from CRB so you can take loans and the government comes. It's a reward. I'll just call all these a reward which is not right. So 4.5 million Kenyans ought to be brought back to CRB? Yeah. Thumbs up. I think... Number one, I appreciate the idea. Some people are literally not able to pay. Somebody may be borrowed 20,000 shillings or 10,000 shillings. But the nature of our society can't allow them to pay the money. So if the government can pay them that debt but the government should also empower those people so that it will not keep on paying the debt. You see, the problem is not even the CRB. The problem is the empowered people. They may end up going back into debt. The youth don't have jobs, they are not generating anything. They will end up going back to the CRB. But supporting the removal of CRB, I support it 100%. But the government should empower the people of Kenya, especially the youth who are unemployed. So that they are able to sustain themselves. But if they don't, if the government will not create jobs, opportunities for these people, still more people will go to the CRB. Do you agree with her that it should be taken back to CRB? Because now you're saying if they are not empowered, then they will still go back to getting blacklisted. Should they be taken back so that they can learn? No, no, they should not be taken back because it's the government. And the government is the people. It's the government of the people. The problem is not even taking them back. The government has done a very good thing to bring them out of the CRB so that they are free people who can borrow again, who can continue their businesses. But the problem lies from the government to provide jobs, opportunities so that these people can sustain themselves instead of going back to the CRB. You know, there is a problem here because we are in a society where we just don't deal with the root cause. What is the root cause of this thing? Why are people in CRB? Because there is no empowerment. There is no jobs. So create jobs. Let these people have jobs and let them be responsible for what they have done. Why am I removing you from CRB? Let me have a dialogue with the bank or the lender on a plan on how I will pay this thing. Just look at this. I was blacklisted at the CRB and now the government has given me a funding, a hasla fund. Wouldn't I feel some form of reprieve? Wouldn't I feel relieved one, I've been removed from CRB. Two, there is a hasla fund that I've been able to acquire. What is the root cause of this thing? It is the root cause of this thing. We should learn what is the root cause of this thing because we are creating a society that is in the CRB. As you know, you will work out your thing but we have people out there who don't have the understanding you have. We are in the CRB and we are in the heart of the people. We are in the heart of the people. So let us teach people how to be responsible. According to my thought, this is a new government in place that has never been there. For the first time we have a PhD president. We have never had a PhD holder president in office. A doctor. And now this is just a hundred days. We cannot just judge him fully that he will not deliver. And what I can say is this, when he entered office he realized there are so many Kenyans who are in the CRB and moving with those people building this country, it can be cumbersome. So maybe he saw it. Let me remove these people, empower them. Maybe he's going to create jobs, opportunities for the youth. Once he does that, this country will go up and the GDP of this country will even triple if he does that and kills the corruption story of our country. Yes. So, I'm trying to look at the economic stability of the country that the president is trying to work on and I'm noticing that there is the approach of empowering the monanchi. Do you feel like the Kenyan monanchi, the common one, the one jikwa is being empowered through these activities of funding and removal from blacklisting? Are they being empowered, Mukami? Well, like I said, and like he mentioned, it's a hundred days. We are yet to see more and we don't expect him to do miracles in a hundred days. But I think they have to look at you know, there's needs and wants. They have to look at the needs. What do we need right now? We have calamities. Our economic situation right now is not very good as a country. So, what are we concentrating on? They should concentrate on, like for example, I'll give you an example. Right now we have fatraisas. You mentioned fatraisas for farmers. Yeah, yeah. So, it's a good idea, but strategically it's not a good idea because the problem is the cost of production is very, very high. For example, right now token, electricity tokens are last month with a thousand shilling you'd get 53 units. Right now with 1000 you're getting 32, that is 7, 32 if I'm not wrong. So, the cost of production is very low and when you increase the cost of, you increase the cost of production is high, everything is chaos. So, I think they have a good idea, but strategically there is a problem. In, you know, there is a problem somewhere. There is a problem somewhere we should handle the most important things, the needs. Okay, moving on. There are so many things we are going to be looking into. A hundred days a lot has happened. We appointed 50% of women to cabinet and cabinet level portfolios. We are looking at gender representation as it has been a very strong issue in the country for many, many years and to achieve the two third gender rule he sent a proposal to parliament. Thumbs up, thumbs down, hit or miss? Miss. Miss, hit. Okay, let me start with the miss, my brother. Why do you feel so? 50% of women appointed into cabinet? They have not been appointed 50%. We haven't achieved 50% women appointed in the cabinet positions. What is the percentage? I don't have the real figure, but they are not 50%. That was a promise, that is a miss. Okay. It was a promise, but we are not seeing it. So it's a miss. Do you think we have 50% representation of women? You tell me. No, we don't. You don't see it? That is a miss. The two-thousand gender rule in parliament? Not yet. He gave them the proposal. But he has tried. His government, compared to other government, the president has tried to give the women positions, but we have not achieved the real figure. Noa, mukami? We have not achieved the figure he gave, but we are growing as a country and compared to where we are coming from, I think this is good. We had a lot of women and young women. Back then we used to have older women in the cabinet. Right now we have younger women who are giving, the youth, hope and everything. So I think we are going there and he has tried. I would give it a hit. He has tried and maybe in the next years we will get to the 50%. But he has really tried. I think he considered women. He considered women. The party, UDA considered women. It considered women so I can't complain. Okay. Gender representation, do you believe that by the time we get to the next general election we will see a lot of representation, especially on the side of women in leadership, in the government. Okay, I think the nature of how our politics are, it is still a very big challenge. I don't think it will be so soon. By the time we get to the next general election, No, I don't think so. We wouldn't have achieved. No. Okay. According to history and also how he has shown because this is the real time we could have gotten the 2-3rd general as we are speaking. You are talking about according to history but I am looking at according to what has happened still in the same history. What Dr. Ruto has managed to do we are looking at him and showing that we have more women in cabinet. Two dozen general proposals has been taken to parliament. You yourself, you mentioned that this is something that hasn't happened in the previous regimes. Yes. So according to the same history you don't believe that they will manage to achieve this by the time we get the general elections in 2027? No, I don't believe so. The number will go up but not exact. I think we will achieve. There was a very high improvement this time. I think that's a hit for me. He has really tried, he has empowered women. We have women in very good positions right now. Women leadership is good. Even if we don't have the vice as a woman but I think women have been represented very well and we are growing. You don't expect us to achieve. But you don't have the real 2-3rd general representation and that is what I am saying. Could it be because of what she said you don't have the vice as a woman? No, maybe you don't have the vice as a woman. I think we can't complain. As Kenyans and women youth we can't complain. We are well represented. We are well represented and this time the turn up of women vying women in cabinet was higher than any other government. So women are coming up. Maybe next time we will have a woman president or a vice. If they qualify, you know. No, we qualify. We are there, we qualify. There are a lot of women who qualify. Yeah, but my problem is I am not objecting women. But they should not depend on appointments if they are able to do the work. Like those who have been appointed, thumbs up to the president. He has given women who can do the job. And it's also a positive thing that women are going into these positions. And maybe when we go forward these positions to do with women representation, women rep, we will get away with it because now it will be quality. Yeah, 50-50. And whoever wins is the best. Thank you. You're not licking wounds, not licking wounds. Now that you don't have a deputy president as a woman, I know that was a very strong point for some women before the general election. We can even have a president who is a woman. But they should not wait to be appointed or to be, they should come for these positions. That is my advice. I believe they are coming. They are coming, they are coming. They are coming and actually, and this is from Statser, Kenya has a lot of women CEOs. Actually, more than men, more than men. So, and actually from outsiders, maybe you might not see because you're in Kenya, but Kenyan women are very brilliant. We are very brilliant, we work very hard. And I believe very soon, very soon women will be leading this country. I believe the 2,000 general rule might be achieved very soon. It will be achieved, it will be achieved. In my opinion, though, my opinion is completely mine, I should not have given my... No, he has tried. Udea has really tried. With women it was... Even the campaigns, women were leading the campaigns very well. We saw women representation in campaigns, in gubernatoria race, we have governors as women. For the first time we have a lot of governors, women governors. So, we are heading there. We are heading there. Darin doesn't seem to believe that, but time will tell. Time will tell. Now, let's look at employment for the youth. Another issue that we are looking into, 100 days into office of the president. Remember, we are talking about 100 days, but it ended on, it laps on 13th December. That was on Tuesday, if I'm not wrong. Yes, it laps on 13th December. That's when the 100 days laps. So we are looking at the employment sector. Youths getting jobs. How has he managed to create opportunities? And I'm looking at particularly his transformation of the Kazuko Vijana initiative, where he's looking at making it into a production area, rather than consumption program. So employment, Kazuko Vijana, how has he managed to do it? From where you sit? Mokami? I think they are trying. They are trying and production is very important. So with 100 days, I can't see what they have done. I'm waiting to see what they will do. I'm waiting to see what they will do. They just launch a few things. I'm waiting to see how it's going because unemployment is very high. We have a lot of Kenyans who are unemployed and are relying on other people. So let us wait and see, but I can't see anything because the things they are focusing on are not very important. So let's wait and see. I think I will not give them a miss. I will say they are trying. So let us see. And I'm wondering what is this that you feel they are focusing on that is not important? Like something like Wi-Fi. Why are they focusing on Wi-Fi? Would I think about free internet when I'm hungry, when I don't have a job? How is free internet helping me? Nasi na kazi. Free internet. I don't understand. There are things I'm not understanding. How is NaiFest helping me as a youth in Nairobi? I'm a student. I am jobless. You're bringing a festival. How am I going to dance there hungry? So I think they should focus on more important things like employment. They are heading there. We haven't seen it yet. They're heading there. But why are they wasting money on this thing? Free internet. But you can use the internet to get online jobs. But not all of us have the knowledge about getting these online jobs. Okay. Darin. Okay. What I can say about employment. This country produces a billion plus shillings on taxes, court fines as revenue. This country is 100 billion USD GDP. But we have more than 12 million youth unemployed. Tell me what is wrong? Because we have a serious problem with unemployment. Recently at the University of Nairobi there was a certain insurance company that was doing some interviews of the jobs. The people who came to the who turned up you could not imagine old and young. In hundreds and hundreds they have come for a few jobs position. It has happened for a long time. For many years. For a long time and I tend to think that even there is a problem with our education system. It tends to bring out sophisticated hobos. Why do I say so? Because these people are programmed. We go to school and even now people are learning about the head of a locust all the rivers and mountains in Africa and also Kenya. When a five-year-old Chinese kid knows how to operate a laptop they are taught algebra and geometry. So I tend to think even our education system we need to check what are we producing and also the country should know I'm doing civil engineering at the University of Nairobi. I'm a fifth year. Then we have five thousand unemployed engineers in Kenya. Tell me when I graduate where will I get a job? The president launched the education working party on education reforms. Yes, on CBC. Yes. It was looking on CBC. He is looking into transforming the education sector. He is looking into ensuring that the education sector is well put. I think CBC is a good thing. He is mentioning education there and it reminded me of CBC and I'm wondering hasn't he made a positive step? He has made a step. But also those people should check the content of what we feed our people. At CBC there is no rating of positions and you know very well where there is no number one, two or max adding we don't have competition. We should see what are they consuming. Are we targeting what is our vision in 20 years to come 50 years to come as a nation and as a continent because the problem of the usual thinking of problem solving of our problems in Kenya are over. We need to think about the whole of the entire Africa. That is my thinking. We produce so many graduates but we don't have jobs for them. Look at Mumiya's company. There is a narrative that is going around. Sugar comes from Uganda. They are being repackaged in Kenya. Those are jobs positions young people are not benefitting from. So those are the things that we need to discuss. Where is the problem? Is the problem the jobs or is the problem we are producing more than what we need on the market. The government should know how many engineers are being produced per year. How many doctors are being and how many do we need. Do we need all these universities so that we have sophisticated hobos everybody is graduating everywhere and they don't have a place to go. That's where the discussion starts. I think the problem here is the mentality here. You don't have to be employed. We are talking about employment. We don't have to be employed and that is what we should be taught in school. In university, yes, it's very important to go to university. I don't have a problem with that. But have a mind of I can open my own business I can start my own business because let me tell you we have a lot of doctors we have a lot of teachers that are unemployed. So if you are a teacher you don't get a job. That means are you going to die? No. You need to have another skill and now this comes to people who did not manage to go to university and I feel like Kenya has not concentrated on polytechnics. Back then polytechnics were more were very valued where they taught driving welding, machinery. We are looking at the tivet institutions. So they need to revive they need to revive these polytechnics so that people who cannot get to university and get proper jobs can open their own businesses and the other day I was looking for a carpenter I couldn't get one. We have tivets. Ya I know, I know. But are they operation or how many? I tend to disagree with her. Okay. During the last regime of president Huru and deputy president now is our president His excellency. They pumped in money to tivets than universities. Ya I remember. Yes they pumped in money than the universities and they did a good thing but now the problem is still there. We have so many universities people are getting seized and they want to go to the university. We need to reduce the number of the universities we pump in money as they have done on tivets we get more people doing these courses but now the selected few come up to the university everybody is graduating everywhere I am telling you recently there was a everyone wants to graduate there is no problem with that but now when they are graduating what is the quality they are bringing in the society if I go to the university as Darren Hart then after five years I come out as an engineer then I am unable to bring a solution a single solution in my society. Darren let me get you clearly because I am getting confused in what you are saying in a bit and clarify this are you questioning the universities or the graduates? I am questioning the quality of education we are getting and also what the government is planning for them we are getting a big number of people graduating everywhere in the country we don't have this position of jobs in the country enough to accommodate them but also the problem from the universities what they are being taught we have seen so many youth who cannot even bring a solution in the society saying they cannot bring solutions because they are not taught solutions in school they are not producing results because if I go to the university for five years I come back in my society and I am unable to bring even a simple solution then that is zero I think what should be taught is like I said mentality people should be open minded you don't have to rely on employment you don't have to rely on I think if you are a doctor I am waiting for a certain hospital if I am a marketer employ yourself create your own job in short let me give you a living example when I was in primary school I was very young I used to see Jeff Koinange on television I still see him today tell me how many journalists will want to be in that position if they are waiting for the jobs Jeff Koinange should have his own channel by now so that he employs other journalists that is the thinking I want to bring it out should they reduce the retirement if you are thinking of employment you are challenging Jeff Koinange he should go home he should not go home to love his own channel so that more other journalists can be absorbed there let me quote Francis Atoli he said this it's too early kwa nza kukupima umefanya nini because sisi baadotu nangoja tu sikie vijana way to wengine wame pata kazi wakina malala wakina rashi de chesa na nisumu wasana kona jad that is according to Francis Atoli let's give them time because ata upiwa nangoja kona kazi kazi wata gainata pewa kazi we need more time to see how the employment sector will be transformed we should give them time personally I think we should give them time but we plan now I don't like the plan on the table the plan on the table is not very good another problem with our country is the electorate or the Kenyan citizen a large number bigger larger percentage the person or the people they should put accountable number one the problem has no problem when he intends to do something because everything passes through parliament and on the county level they pass through the MCAs an example last regime when the president gave the MCAs a car grand of 2 million did you see anywhere a single MCA objecting that idea no they did not so those are the people Kenyans have donated their sovereign power to go to office the problem is not the governor or the president the problem Kenyans need to focus on is the member of parliament and the MCAs I want us to bring this because the president cannot do anything without these people I want us to bring this discussion to a close and I want us to wrap it up by first of all getting your opinion on this one last question now that we are aware we are today yeah what more changes would you are you seeing or looking forward to when it comes to from the government side and what are your recommendations and you feel those things that you feel the government needs to prioritize so those are two questions in one one what you are looking forward to the things that you feel that the government ought to or the things you feel like the government is going to change the number to what you recommend them to prioritize let me start with you Mokami well I think right now the most important thing is we have calamities right now in our biggest calamities I would call it hunger there is hunger in the country people are hungry people don't have food first of all they should focus on the needs sometimes when you can have a plan but when there is a problem that comes in you change the game plan so right now they should focus on drought try to save people from hunger the other thing they should focus on youth empowerment youth empowerment is empowering youths by fund like what I said the hustler fund they should strategize it properly raise the limit also employ youths because we have we have the same people we had 15 years in the same offices we have so many learned youth that are jobless we have so many learned youth that don't know what to do you have your papers there you are from the best university in Kenya Nairobi University you don't have a job but there is this guy who is 60 years old and he is 20 years old so they should open these para status for us they should seriously open these jobs for us as young people and the other thing is about the integrity issue they should focus on chapter 6 of our constitution because a lot of things that are happening right now are contradicting there is a lot of rewarding going on which is not right it's not right our constitution should be respected okay what I can say what I expect moving on the government should at least revive these industries that have fallen out of hand in our country if they revive that is when the jobs will be created and also let them finish what the other regime had started like the way the deputy president was saying completing those roads then we can start a new one let's not start new projects and we have not completed the ones they started I expect the education sector to be looked in because a country that does not prioritize education is a failing country and it has no future and a society can never be better if a place that should be a center or standard of solution where policy solutions can be sorted can never be better if we get the legislature or the member of parliament they have turned that house to be the center of comedy and scandals it's 100 days but we've seen what has been happening before this thing to do with corruption the government should be very strict on those policies because a society can never be better where the standards of solution are made and policies is in a state of decay in a state of corruption and so those are the things that are killing this country because as I'm speaking to you Kenyans are very depressive they are living as predators when there's no job there's no food government should check this thing to do with the the other side of the country they are giving food to the animals a friend was telling me that where he comes in Kinangopo, Nyandarua they are cutting cabbage to cows when people are dying in Tucana is it a problem redistribution of food that we have or what those are the key things that we need to focus on even as we look into seeing more that the government is going to do remember the 100 days laps on that 10th of December we are still waiting to see how things will change it is the time of Christmas many Kenyans are still licking wounds in regards to the cost of living still high it is perhaps the most pressing issue that the president is looking to change in his administration also the issue concerning the wage bill pending bills and dealing with the mounting debt that the country is facing at the moment well time will tell whether these things will be dealt with including corruption you mentioned that corruption those are things that we are looking forward to seeing change in the coming future but of course thank you so much to everybody that was tuned in to this morning conversation right here on why in the morning we were talking about 100 days of the Kenyakwanza government in office and I was with Darren Hart my brother thank you so much for coming I appreciate your presence and the people's president Yes Asante Sana and Olivia Thank you so much for coming I appreciate your presence keep doing what you're doing and I wish you well in the coming election Thank you Ushinda Mousi Shinde Ujiha Pa Lazi Manta Shinde But we believe Rapata sure I believe in that Thank you so much and that business to the end of this discussion right here on why in the morning my name is Ram Magukul but keep tuned in because we still have more coming up right here on why in the morning we are taking a short break we'll be back in a bit