 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of Mind Pump, the first 39 minutes starts off fun, then it gets a little tense. In fact, I'm having to- Somebody needs a massage. I'm having to drink my relaxing Raishi mushroom drink. I'm gonna give some to Adam. Is that what you're sucking on right now? I was wondering what that was. It's calming me down. Should pass it around. It got a little bit, ugh. Every time I'm around, Adam, I gotta drink this Raishi drink. Smells shroomy in here. By the way, the Raishi I'm drinking is from FourSigmatic. How are you liking those? You've been on that for a minute now. The best mushroom products that I've used, I've always used mushrooms medicinally, and they use a dual extraction process, so you actually get the most bio-available compounds from the mushrooms for the best benefit. Raishi's what I drink when I need to chill out. You've been hard up on them ever since Paleo. Was it the Raishi drink that they were handing out? Was it something like that? Cordyceps, I'll use pre-workout sometimes if I'm gonna do one that's real hard, but the Raishi one's the one that I use most frequently. I really, really enjoy using it. Is it only really used for that, for relaxation, or is there other purposes for it? It's great for balancing the body out. Does it have chamomile or what is it that makes it- No, it's got Raishi. That's the name of the mushroom. But I mean, that's it. It's just Raishi. That's it. That's the only one I use all the time, or at least most commonly. And again, it's really good for balancing the body out. So if you feel stressed out, like I do right now, I'll drink it. And it makes me feel- I can see the advice. A lot of sex talk, dude. And it makes me feel good. We have a discount code for that, right? You go to foursigmatic.com, four slash mind pump, and what's the, is it mind pump? Mind pump is the code. So yeah, we talk about Game of Thrones, which is, I don't know, it's some TV show apparently. Yeah, it's the most awesome TV show that ever existed. Some of you may have heard of it. Yeah. I'm pretty sure all of you are watching it. I mean, people. I mean, people. All the normal people. Way to insult seven million people. Keep going now. My bad. Then we talk about relationships, and Adam tries to make the case for... Oh, there you go. There you go. Put words in my mouth already. Don't try and divide our fans, bro. Don't even try to do that. I tried to start off with some awkward, like I was watching lesbian porn, and it got weird. Yeah, yeah. I set it up. That's what, it's my fault. I actually submitted it. It wasn't a tense, it was actually a good conversation. It wasn't, it was fine. It was fun. We were talking about Monogamy, the success or failure of it, and Adam's reading the book Sex at Dawn, which is a relatively popular book. Apparently we're trying to get the author on the show. That'll be an interesting conversation. I have not looked into the book, but that is a topic I'm very fascinated on. So we talk a lot about that in the intro, and then we get into the fitness stuff. Yeah, quietly. The first question was. 39 minutes later, so hang in there. If you don't like all that shit, you have 40 minutes of it, so buckle up. Then the first question was, what advice we can give personal trainers who are trying to transition into online coaching? It's actually a great field to get into, but it's a difficult one, so we give our opinion on that. Then we talk about our thoughts on resistance bands. Do we like them? Do we hate them? They're awesome. Are they awesome tools? Find out in this episode. Then we answer the question, whether or not we think a degree trumps self-obtained knowledge and experience. What's our opinion? Well, considering two of us don't really have a degree, you can guess what we're gonna say. I got outnumbered. Then the last question is, someone has a tight IT bands in her legs and wants to know how to relieve it. She does the foam rolling, but it doesn't seem to be helping. We have some good advice in that particular part of the episode. Advice Prime Pro. Exactly, and more. Finally, this month, enroll in any of our programs. Any of our maps programs. Including our bundles, including our Super Bundle. The Super Bundle includes all of our most important maps programs. It's one year's worth of exercise programming. So basically you enroll in it and you've got the next year all planned out for you to get you to your goals. Enroll in any of those programs and you get access to our private forum for free. Normally it's $87. That price will be going up in September, but you'll get access to it for free. The good thing about the forum is this. Once you enroll in our programs, they're very detailed. Lots of videos, lots of demos. There's all these blueprints broken down, but nothing substitutes support along the way. That's like the best thing you could do, right? You get in a program, you're working out, you're following it, but at some point you're gonna have questions. At some point you may want someone to watch your form. Like, hey, does my squat look good? Or am I improving the right way? Or do I look leaner here even though my body weight hasn't changed? Cause sometimes you build muscle while burning body fat. That's what the forum is for. It's for that support the entire time. So if you enroll in the Super Bundle, for example, for a year, it's awesome because you get on the forum and throughout this entire process, there's trainers on there that can help you. There's other fitness professionals that can help you. There's other members who've been through the programs that can help you. And then of course, me, Adam, and Justin are on there every single day. The place to enroll in these programs and get that free access is mindpumpmedia.com. How come every time we try to joke around, but you know how we make horrible jokes? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every once in a while, I want the audience to know this. I can't repeat any of this. Doug jumps in with his own joke and it's way more inappropriate than anything else we've ever, you know what I'm saying? I love it. We'll say some horrible shit and Doug will come out and just say something like, I can't even, I can't even like- You can't make an example because- You won't get noticed otherwise, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. His radar's off a little bit. He throws it out there to just like get our attention. Doug's the worst one. Yeah. Remember when we did the psychology tests with my friend of mine who was here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she goes through all of them and the one that was most likely to be a murderer. Like dangerous or crazy was Doug. Yeah, it was Doug. Doug was the one most likely. Yeah. He was that in, yeah, like sexual, something real sexual, right? Like sexually- Like charged. Perverse. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, not charged. Hey, are you- No. Are you up and up on your Game of Thrones? I am, bro. How epic was that last episode? They're getting- Whoo! I am so impressed with this show right now. I know the salad drives you crazy because you're not a part of it. Sweep me up when you're done. I'll take a nap. Let Mr. Left out right now. Take a nap, old man. There's not a lot of shows. There's not a lot of series, right? TV series that get better after three seasons. Right. It just seems like you most play, I mean, when you think about it, like the best books ever out there, right? You run out of material. Imagine how many books or volumes that is if you'd go three, four, five- Just to be able to string all the stories together and then still make it interesting. Dude, if it's not predictable, then you've won. That's crazy. Yeah, listen to this guy. But it must suck- That's the sheep sound. It must suck, dude. That's the sheep sound. Because you know when the sheep, the sheep are all following. No, Justin made a very good point the other day. There's a reason why so many people watch him. Then there's the sheep dog. That's what I'm trying to corral you guys right now. You're disdain for this subject is just your stubbornness. Huh? It's your stubbornness. No, it's not. You know what it is? You have no, like if you watched it, you would love it. Ignorance is bliss, my friend. Ignorance is bliss. It's easy. It's really easy to talk shit about it. It's super ignorant. Because I see the mind control. You know what it is? No, you wanna know the truth? It's the mind control. They're fucking controlling your brain. No, you know what it is? Oh, dragons are controlling my life. Kimtrails, Kimtrails. Here's what it is. I never watched it because I just didn't care. But then everybody gave me so much shit about it. Now, fuck everyone. No, it's because you set yourself up for that. You came out with guns blazing. God, this is stupid. This is for idiots to watch this, dude. No, no, I don't think idiots watch it at all. I think- Yeah, you better backfiddle. I think- Yeah, I can't say that. I think- Seven million people watch it. I think sheeple. That's a lot of people. Sheeple. Oh, sheeple. Sheeple do the same stuff together. You know what I mean? Interesting. So, while you guys are watching that. It's an epicness. Epicness. I want you to tell me a better show. A better show than that one? Well, he'll lose that argument. Statistically, there isn't. There isn't a better show. It probably is a good show. My money would be on that. It was a good show. But I'm not gonna watch it. Yeah. You can't force me. It doesn't make any sense. You can't force me. Is it? We're not for- Oh, I'm twisting your arm. You guys are trying to pressure me. What is current? We're having a conversation about an awesome show. Everybody's doing it. You're left out. That's your own- What are you currently watching right now that's tickling your tummy? What am I watching? Yeah. Nothing. There's nothing you watch- Just straight reading. No, I'm not really watching anything. Actually, I'm interested now- It must be fun to bang you. Oh, yeah. Let me tell you, it is. I bang myself all the time. It's- No, I'm reading right now. I'm not really watching. I don't watch a lot of TV, believe it or not. Part of the reason is my girlfriend doesn't like TV. And then the other part of the reason is- Oh, okay. Most of the stuff on TV sucks. So, you had to say. I'd talk about sheep. Yeah, I'd rather have good conversation, you know. I'd rather do business stuff, learn. No, yeah, no, I don't watch that shit. Yeah, it's all good. It's all good. We're just through messing with you, buddy. You can have your- You can't pressure me, dude. You can have your- The harder you push- Your hard stance. You know what I mean? Like, no. The hard- Now means no. The harder you push, the more I'm not going- I'll ask permission from Jessica for you all to send a message to her. There we go. That's where we're gonna go next. You think I'm bad. You think I'm bad. She's worse, dude. What? Yeah. No way. She's very receptive. No, no, no. The more you push her, the more she'll push back. She's worse than I am. Oh, okay. That's right, dude. Okay. I got my fucking gangster partner. So, you're gonna tell us a story, Justin. I was. So, speaking of Netflix, well, I guess we're not speaking of Netflix because Game of Thrones is HBO, but I was like watching TV last night, Courtney works during the week. Like, and so, you know, like I put the kids down, all this stuff. And I'm just like bored and kind of going through Netflix. And so, this is pretty embarrassing, but like I was watching through and like some show was just on there. And it was called like Below Her Mouth. And I'm like, Below Her Mouth? Like it's a pretty provocative title, you know? And it was like, dude, it was like straight. This was like a romance story between like two girls and everything. And like, I was like, oh, weird. You know, what, what am I watching? It turned into like full on like, like porn. Like. You found that on Netflix? Yeah. I've been searching for the last two years for stuff like this on Netflix. I was like, what is this? And I just like, was it like, it was soft core porn. Totally. Totally. What was it called again? Yeah, it was called like Below Her Mouth. I like how Justin, I like how Justin's like, what's this? This is weird. Yeah, this is strange. I don't know if she would have said it. It's like that sucked in. The drama. Sure. Oh, I love you. Oh, I work. The acting was incredible. It was great. She was like this, like own her own construction company. You know, she's like, yeah, you know, this other girl was like married to some guy and caught her eye, you know. Oh, she cheated on her husband? Yeah. It was steamy. What a bitch. It was steamy. You know, I've heard people say like, I've heard guys be like, make comments like, yeah, if my girlfriend cheated on me with another girl, that'd be cool. No, it wouldn't. It would still suck. Yeah. Wouldn't it still suck? It's still cheating. Of course. If anything, I think it would be worse maybe. I don't know, is it worse? Does it make a difference? I don't know. I don't know if it does yet. Because you can't really compete. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know if it does or not. Like, because then, I don't know. I've actually, I knew somebody like who, one of my friends who she's married now to a girl. And I knew the guy who she was married to and stuff. Oh, shit. Oh, he was. I couldn't stand it. I was so glad she left him. But anyway, like, it's kind of funny because I could just see like his demeanor totally changed. He was like, questioning himself, like, oh no, like, to be a fly on the wall and his thought process of like, you know, like, oh no, what did I do? Are you friends with him? No. Oh, okay. Did he say afterwards, like, that he's like, oh, I should have known. There were all these signs. Or was it just? No, I think he's just surprised. He just completely pushed her in the other direction, you know? He's just like, yeah. Does that really happen though? Can you push someone so hard that they go in the other direction or was it always there? Well, I think there was an element of abuse there. And I think that, you know, that, like, there was interest, you know, otherwise there's somebody comforting. And, you know, that just kind of led to, to what it is now, so. Geez, man. I know, it's interesting. Adam's really quiet. Yeah. Well, it's a fascinating topic. I think we don't all agree on this one. That's why it's different. You know, it's, I don't know if I even buy into the whole cheating thing. And because when you say cheating like that, then you're assuming that I own this other person. And I don't feel like, I don't feel like I own Katrina and I don't feel like I own her right to seek out or deny her of love or of doing something like that. So, like, my philosophy on. Okay, I'll be Marcus. No, it's not, I'm not saying, I'm not saying that I also, I'm not saying that I think that relationships should be just this big open thing and everybody fucks everybody either. I don't think that's, I don't think that's really truly having a relationship with someone either. But I also don't, I don't have this same, you know, we just had this recently. So Katrina had an ex-boyfriend who came into town and they hadn't seen or talked to each other in a really long time. And he hit her up out of nowhere and wanted to go have coffee with her. And she told him no. And I said, why? And then she was like, well, would you want me to go do that? I'm like, well, I wouldn't mind. Like it wouldn't, it doesn't bother me. Like I love you, I trust you. I don't, and I figured if you guys dated each other for a certain amount of time, you guys probably have a connection and you guys have probably had history together. And I don't feel threatened by things like that. I feel confident in who I am and our relationship and- Well, that's just jealousy though. I think cheating's not, cheating's an agreement. That's all it is. It's a breaking of an agreement. So if there's an agreement that you guys can do whatever you want, then you're not cheating. Exactly, yeah. If the agreement- You gotta set the standards ahead of time. Yeah, that's all. If somebody crosses the, yeah, what you guys kind of go into it with and like you go against like the intent of what you guys kind of agreed upon, then that's, you know, that's not cool. Yeah, if there's two people and they're both cool with it, then it's not cheating. You just have to establish that. Yeah, cheating literally is, we both agree we're not gonna, you know, do this, that, and the other. And if someone does, then it's cheating. So again, I don't think it would, the difference like with the, that's why I'm quiet in the conversation because you're speculating on if your girl cheated on you with another girl would that bother you. And I'm like, well, I don't see that, first of all, even happening like that. And if it did, it really wouldn't. I wouldn't- So you guys don't have that agreement. You don't have the agreement. It's not that we, it's not that we don't, I don't know, did you and Jessica sit down and write a contract like that? We didn't write a contract, but we definitely, I mean, it's pretty explicit that we, that we're, what's the word exclusive? Monogamous. With each other. Yeah, so I don't think that there was, there's this written agreement where you were, we've sat down or even had this like discussion that, oh, this is how it has to be. And if you were to do that, like, I'm like, if you have these feelings or thoughts or you wanna do it just, I wanna communicate it to me. Like, that's how I feel. And then we'll cross that bridge when it comes. Like, I'm not saying that I would be or wouldn't be comfortable with it because I haven't dealt with that. But I think that if you sat down- Well, there's certain things that you know ahead of time that you would wanna do or not wanna do that people communicate. You know, cross that bridge when it gets there is like saying, we can do it. And then after that, then we'll decide if it was okay or not. No, cross that bridge, communication is key, man. Communication is everything. So if all of a sudden, like, let's say, you know, my girl and I've been together for six years. So that's it. When you've been in a relationship for a long time, you both will change and you both will grow and hopefully you grow together. That's the idea of a really healthy relationship, right? And so let's say when we first met, she doesn't like women, never did, never did. But all of a sudden at a nowhere at 35 years old, she decides that I have this interest in women. And for me, if she just went out and started fucking women and then I found out, well, yeah, that would bother me. But what would bother me is not that she's fucking other women, it would be that she didn't communicate that with me. Because I feel like our bond is so strong and so tight and our relationship is so solid that if you wanted to go express yourself like that, then I would want you to communicate that. Yeah, I don't think, yeah. And that's what I mean. In any direction, yeah. Man or, you know, like it's like, yeah, that's just like, you didn't communicate this. Yeah, you didn't like express it. I'm happy with me or venturing out. And that's what I mean by crossing this bridge when it comes here because if that was a desire of hers, it wouldn't be go do it and then let's talk about there. No, it would be, if that's a desire that you have, then let's talk about that. Let's not just rush it over. Yeah, but that's not cheating. Cheating would be the first option that you said where there was no communication, they did it, and then you found out. That's cheating. If it was, we communicated it and we decided that this was okay, then that's not cheating. That's, again, that's an agreement between two people. Although, even in that situation, that's a tough situation for most people. I've talked to actually no personally, several people that have entered into relationships like that where they were together for a long time and then they decide, hey, I think this is where we wanna go. We wanna be open about it. And none of them, the ones that I know personally worked out, all of them said it ended in disaster. And I think it's because we think we know what we can do, what we want many times, and then when you're actually there, it could be incredibly, I can't even imagine how challenging that would be for a couple. But yeah, if you agree to, that's totally different. If there's no communication that person does, that's cheating. That's what cheating is. Yeah, sure. I mean, yes, you believe that. I believe you do. That's made up by who? Started by what? Just like language, you know what I'm saying? There's a lot of things that we have created as humans and this is one of them. And so I think that a lot of it is rooted and driven by our own personal insecurities. And I think why most relationships have a hard time with some of that is whether one or the other wants to admit it, they're insecure. And because just like our friendship that we have right now, I have a best friend that I don't speak to anymore. And I remember it ate away at me for a while that we were no longer good friends. And I remember Katrina was the one that really helped me dive deeper into that and realized that that person was extremely important to you at that time in your life. And that person played an incredible role in your life and you should be grateful that you had that opportunity, that time, and you both had an incredible time for each other. But then things changed in life and he went in his direction, you went the other direction. There's no reason to be angry, to be bitter, to even dwell on it as it, like it's a big deal. It's just that you grew apart and went different directions. And so my idea of things like that, like if someone, just like I've been cheated on. So, you know, using that term still, you know, someone has done that to me and it wasn't, it actually, and of course that the initial reaction is this, this sting at first, but when I really dive into like what was that, it's my own insecurities that made me feel that sting. And then when I got through that, it's like, well, I would want that person, if I really cared about that person, I would want that person to be with the person they wanna be with. And if it's not me and it's somebody else, then that's where I want you to go. That's just being, I mean, that's just, if you're gonna carry around that hate and anger, that's, then you end up carrying that around, you end up owning that, that's different. But if you want something else, it always boils down to communication. Yeah, at the end of this, yeah, and you do, you can't, I know where you're trying to go, but like, cause we've constructed things to sort of put order and reason behind them and having sort of like old agreements, like there's definitely like individual by individual, like this is what, it's working for us. Like we're just in a relationship, like a lot of people don't even define it a lot of times and it still works for them, which is fine. But like, some people like they like to define it and they like to show that they're honoring their partner by displaying a ring or like things like that. Like it's all up to the individual and like what you guys, like your intent with your relationship. It's just an agreement. You know, if we started a business together and we agree on doing certain things and then the other person does, goes against those things. Yeah, of course I don't own that person, you could do whatever you want, but we're now, you know, you have now, our business was predicated on this agreement that we have and you broke that. So that's all it is. But if you look at, you know, this whole philosophy of the stuff, it's at the end of the day, do what you want. And if it works out for anything, that's great. As long as you don't hurt anybody, I don't think anybody should get in the middle of that. But at the end of the day, when people make the argument that it's, that monogamy is not natural, that humans are supposed to do all this, it's bullshit because it's not backed by any real. I mean, there isn't a single major civilization that's been based on that. Every single one has got, has demonstrated that humans have always been serially monogamous. Doesn't mean we're purely monogamous like, like some animals where they mate for life, but serially monogamous in the sense that for the most part, it's one man and one woman until, you know, that ends. And then they go again, one man and one woman or whatever. And that's just what history shows. And if you look at, and anytime you look back through evolution, you start to connect the dots and you can make a case for a lot of different things, but the evidence is overwhelming that monogamy in some way, shape or form is what humans naturally go towards. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that- How successful has that been? Well, I mean, how are you judging it? Are you judging on the growth of the human race, on the advancement of how far we've gone? On keeping that contract and that bond that you're saying. It's been, that's my point. It's far more successful than any other way. It's far more successful. How do we know that if we, but you just said- No other major- Since the beginning of time, there's only, we've been one way for so many times. That's why it's been successful. That's what I mean. There's no other way that's out-competed. There's no other way that has demonstrated- Well, you just said there's never been- Superiority. There's never been a other way because since the beginning of time that we've done that way, so- No, there's no other, no other civilization that has grown that was based on a different way of living, which shows you that it's not been forced. And I'm talking about civilizations that have no contact with each other. I didn't say if it's been forced, but I asked you how successful it's been. It's been, what do you mean? It's extremely, it's obviously the way that we want to live. Had people keeping that contract? The divorce rates and the infidelity that you really think that it's been successful? I think that's easy to answer. First off, humans evolved living till about the age of 30 for the most part. And women died at a very high rate after childbirth. So the odds that you would be with one person until you were 80 was very, very low. The odds that you started mating at probably 15, 16 years old and you had one wife and then she probably died after the third child and then you had another one and then she probably died. It's probably how it worked out. As far as women are concerned, getting pregnant was always has been, except for rather recently, an extremely dangerous situation. Not just the childbirth, which killed women at higher rates than almost anything. In fact, women died off faster than men except during times of war. So besides that, it's also how is she going to hunt and care for herself during the last trimester, for example, and now care for this extra person. So they are naturally, historically, have always been much more selective of who they mate with, whereas men don't have to be as selective. So promiscuity from that standpoint evolutionarily speaking, men are naturally going to be more promiscuous and women are gonna be much less. And that leads to serial monogamy. Sex was the currency that women had for, again, most of human civilization. This is one of the reasons why they speculate that when a woman is very promiscuous, even in modern times where we have all this freedom and laws and stuff to protect us and childbirth isn't as dangerous, not even close, when a woman is promiscuous, she's gonna face the most of the trouble she's gonna face, societally speaking, is from other women. It's not men that are giving her trouble nowadays in modern societies. And this is because sex was a very valuable currency and in a tribe or in a society where you have a woman having lots of sex with lots of different men, it lowers the value of that currency and it actually puts other women at risk. This is one of the main theories behind why women tend to be much more selective. And of course, they're smaller than we are and we're much bigger and all that other stuff. So yeah, this whole argument that somehow humans are not serially monogamous and we're supposed to just all bang each other all the time. I've been hearing it more and more recently. I think it's bullshit. We've been around a lot of people that have that philosophy where I don't share that philosophy but I definitely disagree with you that marriage is successful. It's not, it's not, there is more people that are divorcing and then on top of that, and I know you know as many as I do, men and women that are in marriages that stay in marriages that are cheating. So those are the ones that we would consider successful. Let's separate marriage from coupling for a second because marriage is an institution. It's a, in fact, it's a law. Well, and this is, so when you're talking to me, there's where I have most of my issues. So that's where, when we're talking about a discussion like this, like marriage is an institution. It is, the government is involved in my relationship and then just like meh, that's my attitude. So what about coupling? So two people become a couple. The problem with that is we don't have something to track that. We don't have something to show all the couples and relationships and if they are, we don't have stats to show that. Where marriage is a much easier thing for us to use as a great, I mean, which to me is even more binding because not only are you making a decision to be a couple, but then you're also going as far as to get the government involved and spend a ton of money and put a ring on that person's finger. So you would think that if you're getting married, you're even more committed than a person who's just in a relationship. Yeah, you're not gonna argue, I'm not gonna argue with you on the actual marriage aspect of it, but coupling is very natural. Marriage was just- Of course coupling is natural, but even that, how successful is that if you, because we have, all of us in here have had multiple mates in our life. None of us have had just one mate. Right, that's serial monogamy. I'm talking about when people are like, we have this open relationship. Yeah, I don't think is, I think some people can do it, but I don't think when a lot of people will make the argument that that's natural, which I disagree with. Nobody in here is making that argument. I'm challenging you to defend the statement you made that I disagree with, which is that right now that's successful just because we've evolved as human and civilization has moved on, which has nothing to do with sex with one partner. I think that in general and marriage has failed. I think that it's not successful the way we have things structured. And maybe that's the fault because we allow government to get involved and there's all these pressures. I'm not saying I know why, I'm just saying that I disagree with you when you try and state that's something we're successful at. No, I would say coupling would be the right answer. Marriage is something completely different. The fact that we have contracts and laws around that I think is ridiculous. However, coupling existed before marriage did. Marriage did not invent two people getting together. Well, what does coupling mean? I mean, once two people have sex, are we a couple? Is that what you're saying? No, coupling is much longer than that. Coupling is partnership. And that's the part that is natural. That's where marriage came from. Okay, so now you're saying it's normal for us to couple and then to move on, then couple again, then move on, and then couple again. It's called serial monogamy. Okay. And this is what you mean. So based off of that theory, it would be more natural that you would not probably be with your girl in another seven years or so. Odd, statistically speaking, that's usually what happens. Okay. But serial monogamy is where you have opposite sex who are together. And this is, I'm just talking in terms of the animal kingdom. And they stay together for so long, they tend to produce offspring, and then they move on to another one. And a lot of times that was due to death, although now we don't die like we used to. So now you have people, if you're together with someone, you can theoretically be with someone for 50 years, which is relatively new. People didn't live till they were 50 years old, let alone be with someone sort of. So based off that theory, then relatively it's unnatural then. What? To be with someone for 50 years. Yeah. I don't think that ever happened historically at all. I think that's with lifespans increasing, that's a relatively new thing, absolutely. Defy the odds, man. But I love to find the odds. But I will say this, like I said, especially now you're seeing this movement where people, in particular men, and men like to push this because we like to have our cake and eat it too. It's just true. But this whole ideology that everybody's supposed to have sex with whoever they want, I don't own that person and that's why. And then they end up pushing that ideology on other people, which we've all been around. We've been around people who I almost feel like they try to push it like that's the better way and it's the evolved way to be. It's fucking ridiculous. I've been around some people that are like that, but then I've been around some people that have a different philosophy than you do, but don't push it too. There's a difference. And I've met both those people. I think Paul Check would be an example of somebody who disagrees with you, but there's people that make marriages work. Right, right. There's cases on all ends of the spectrum. So it's just recognizing that there's the entire spectrum there. I actually find, I think there's more for you to look inside yourself for as passionate as you are about the disagreeing with it. That's why I wanted you to read the book Sex at Dawn because I don't think it's gonna change the way you think, but it'll do to you what it did to me, which is just kind of open my eyes a little bit more about things, not change my views on monogamy whatsoever, but I think as passionate as you speak and you speak in certainties about a topic like this and you respect a man like Paul Check who I find is very intelligent, but because you have somebody else in your head like a Aubrey Marcus, who is the flamboyant example of that, maybe more in your face about it and we disagree with his philosophy and maybe how he does it, but I think that that's something that you should challenge yourself in. Oh no, there's no challenge. Again, if people agree with a certain way of living and everybody's happy with it and nobody's getting hurt, I don't care. I don't care if there's 15 people involved or two people involved. It doesn't matter to me. You say that, but then you say it's, what you just said was silly that people are. Silly that people consider it evolved or. If it's working for them, why is it silly? It's silly when they say it's evolved and they're being pretentious about it. You're talking about one person who's like that. Oh no, I've met quite a few. I've met, I can name at least five who do that and say they'll make the argument like, well, if you love your partner, then you don't own them and don't you want them to be happy and don't you want them to enjoy themselves and it's like, as if they're making the accusation as if I'm not. That's like what Paul check would say, it's spiritually righteous. You think you're more evolved because something. And that's what I'm talking about. You've found something that works more for you and it makes sense more to you. And it's like, I mean, I'm so used to that shit because I grew up around religion my entire life. So it just, it falls on deaf ears with me when someone talks like that. I don't get offended by it. I don't get all riled up about it. I don't give two shits about it. When someone talks like that to me, I've been around it so much, it just, it's not a big deal. It's like whatever, you know what I'm saying? If that's how you feel you are and that makes your life better and more rich then I'm happy for you because you created that for yourself. That to me is good for you. You've got an awesome life. You've got your five wives and it works for you and it's cool, you know what I'm saying? You're not gonna be able to push your beliefs on me. But I also am somebody too that I love to challenge. We talk about all the time about shattering our own paradigm. Well, I love to, I truly embrace that and this is something that, you won't talk about somebody who's completely was raised the opposite of this. I was definitely raised the opposite of this. I mean, I signed a purity card. I don't know about you. I wasn't planning on even having sex until I got married. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm the complete opposite of that. So I- You actually signed a card. I actually signed a card, bro. I'm pretty sure I did that too. Did you really? Yeah, probably at like some camp. Who did it go to? I kept it in my underwear. I don't know, I just threw it away. He's like, I mean, I let it to God. Yeah. Throw it in the sky. The North Pole. Yeah, no. No, it's definitely a subject that people try to control other people with. And I can see it. We've all experienced it being controlled on that side, like the purity card stuff. And now I'm seeing it from the other side. And they're trying to change, they're trying to influence culture. I couldn't agree with you more in that situation. And that's the part that gets on my fucking nerves, dude. Yeah, well, no different to me than the other side. I mean, it's just the other spectrum. And to me, it's the response to that. And I believe I fall somewhere in the middle. I fall somewhere personally in the middle of that. You know, like I'm not all the way to the left. I'm not all the way to the right on that situation. There's, I think both have validity to it. And I think- It's the whole like in your face, this is the way we're so evolved. It's gotta be this way. Is it really though that much? Oh, yeah. I could give you- I feel like you're getting pretty riled up about it. I think it's striking a chord with you. No, it's part of an entire, it's part of this cultural war that's going on right now where it is, you know, everybody should be respected. But, you know, don't assume, you know, don't assume you know my gender. Don't assume this and I'm that. And you're, and they're pushing these things on everybody. Like it's fine, do what you want, say what you want. But you can't force other people to think the way you do. And just because I think a certain way doesn't make me less evolved. And it's all part of that. It's all part of that whole thing. Like you'll see, it's gonna keep getting, and it's getting more and more ridiculous. And you know exactly what I'm talking about. That's okay though. I think we can use some of that. I think we've been on the other side for too long. I think we've been on the other side for so long. Like if you do this internal damnation and oh God, heaven forbid you look the other, you find this other woman a try. I mean, I think we've been on the other. Oh dude, see, here's a problem. It's bullshit because statistically speaking, the vast majority of people who get married are not a virgin. People have sex right around, I think the average is around 17 years old. People are more free than they've ever been. Nobody gets in trouble for doing those things anymore. If there's societal pressures, I get that. There's religious, religion is always gonna be religion. That's a dogma, I understand that as well. And that can be a problem for some people. And for some people it's amazing. But there have been a lot of people who have pushed this particular notion and specifically what we're talking about as being the evolved way to live. We are also biased in that because of what we've been around. We had an opportunity to literally interview and hang out with five or six different people that are influencers that believe this way and think this way all about sex. So of course it feels like lots of people to us. But there's somebody over in the fucking east coast or the midwest that has never even fucking heard of that, bro. You're, like I said, again, I challenge you to evaluate the way it's striking a chord with you because it's really not that big, like you don't see it on the fucking news. No one else is talking about it. There's not tons of books about it. It's like literally a couple of people that we know who happen to be influencers who maybe we don't like. Well, I do follow these things quite strongly. So I'm probably seeing a lot more of it. Of course. Than you guys are. There's lots of articles I've been reading. People are trying to make this particular case. It's getting to the ridiculous. I won't even cover some of the other stuff that they said because it's quite disturbing. But it's a way of thinking that ends up devolving and making people believe that because they feel a certain way that they're different and that they're wrong. And I understand it's been the other way for so long. But when that pendulum comes and swings over, you'll see what happens. It's not better to be the exact opposite. It'll be interesting because I'm working on getting the author of Sex at Dawn on the show. And I think it'll be cool for us to pick their brain and talk about this. I love that subject. Mm-hmm. That's a great subject. I think it's an incredible topic. I mean, we love to challenge our own, the way we own our own belief system. We love to challenge the norm. And I think the book is beautifully written. I'm only about three quarters through it, but I've enjoyed it so far. I stayed away from it for a long time because of the people that I recommended. But that was the reason why I picked it up was because, you know what? I started to sound just like you sound right now where I was so about it because the people that I was hearing it from are not people that I would take a lot of advice from. And I thought, wait a second, that's shame on me for being that way. I'm fucking smart enough to read something myself and disseminate the information the way I think it's what it means. And so I planned to do that. And so I did and I thought it was a great read. I don't, I think that it would be a great person to have on the show. What's the case that they're making in there? They don't, they're not making a case. They're not, that's just it. That's exactly why you should read it because it's not, they're not trying. It definitely made certain people that you're talking about feel strongly about certain things, but you could go in with my mindset and probably your mindset and just get good information out of it. For me, like little bits of history and stuff. I think that- So what was something in that you've read so far that- I just shared with you the other day when we talked about agriculture being a main influencer on us starting to create marriage around that because of owning property and the fear of someone else coming in and taking your property and this bit of ownership because before that we were in communities where everything was really shared. And I just, I was not privy to that until I, until I read the whole history on that and they get into a whole chapter and talk about how that happened. And I find it fascinating. And so I think you will enjoy stuff like that of the book. I don't think that- So they're saying before agriculture monogamy was not the rule. It was more of the exception. Yeah. So you know what the problem with going backwards and trying to make cases like that is? Well, again, you're, again, you're stating that they're trying to make a case. Well, no, no, no, no. Trying to make a case. Well, so making a statement like that- I made that statement. It's not what it says in the book. No, no, no. I think that's why I think it's real. The statement that, okay, so they're not saying it was the exception. They're saying that monogamy was the same before. Yeah, you just said those exact words. I just shared with you what was being said. So they're not saying that monogamy was the exception pre-agriculture. It was the same. Monogamy was the same pre-agriculture and post-agriculture. They don't say either one of what you're saying right now. They didn't say that it was or it was not. That wasn't what it was talking about. It just talks about how when we evolved, when we got into agriculture, how that became where we started to see all of us separate into these communities where it would just be a husband and wife and children and kids versus a more community type of sharing. It wasn't just the sexual side of it. It was everything where we helped each other. We shared our food. We shared everything. Including sex. Yes. Okay. But different cultures used it differently which they discussed that too. Not everybody was the same. There's not one tribe and the whole world was doing it a certain way. They go into tons of different tribes and. So that's the issues. When you go back that far, very, very difficult to make those conclusions. The best way you could do it is look at modern hunter-gatherer societies that continue to exist. There are modern hunter-gatherers. They get into that too. Yeah. They get into that. And they say that it's like the same? Yeah, it still happens today. And they even talk about certain countries that try to come in and oppress that and then revolting and then actually killing them off and forcing some of these hunter-gatherer type tribes to change their ways because it goes against how we believe now. So they get into some cool shit. It's a good read, bro. Read the book. Instead of speculating on it, trying to shoot it down before you read it, try picking it up and reading it. Oh, no, it's the way people have used it to argue about certain things. Well, see, that's because I haven't read the book. That's because you're listening to idiots that are telling you. You listen to someone like me who I believe you should trust my opinion on a book and I'll tell you that you'll enjoy the read, dude. It's a good read. You'll go into it the same way I did, which was with the attitude that you have right now, it will reveal some good information to you. You'll take it with what you want. It's not gonna change the way you are in your book. It's just a subject that I've read so much. That's why I didn't have any desire to read the book. Same reason why you don't want to read Eckhart Tolle. It was the same repulsion because I've read it, so I've read so much about it. You might be right, then if you, because a lot of that stuff, like I just shared with you, like I was unfamiliar with that. So for me, there was a lot of things that, for me, I grew up very religious, and so my- So you feel like you know what you're gonna read. My reference to that was the Bible, you know what I'm saying? So if I went anywhere for what a relationship or a marriage or like should look like it was, I referenced the Bible my entire life. So for me to read something completely opposite of that, there was a lot of things in there that were paradigm shattering for me versus someone maybe like you, because you say you're very well read in that field. I wasn't, I know that I wasn't. So maybe it won't make the same impression on you, but that's, I mean, I shared that with you because for that reason, not because I think it's going to change. Look what my accidental lesbian porn watch created. I knew it was gonna go somewhere. It's a good discussion. Doug, bring on the lesbian bird. This clause brought to you by Organify. For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition, Organify fills the gap with laboratory-tested certified organic superfoods to help give your health a performance the added edge. Try Organify totally risk-free for 60 days by going to Organify.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com and use a coupon code MINEPOMP for 20% off at checkout. Our first question is from Kate Horner. What advice would you give to trainers that are trying to transition into online coaching? Use maps programs as a resource and a tool. Part of us creating this was with that in mind. I still believe that we will eventually head in this direction. We just got so much on our plate and things that we need to get in place before we go here. But we had this in mind when we were creating all the programs and the YouTube channel with thinking that, okay, if I was a personal trainer online and I'm not coaching somebody one-on-one, how could I give them the best service possible? And so that's what we're building. We're building this library of series and videos and programs and assessment tools so a trainer literally could get hit with almost any ache, any pain, any goal, any struggle, any muscle imbalance and they could have a really detailed video from a source like MINEPOMP that they could trust to you. So if you do not have all the programming, that would be the first suggestion was to get that in your hands because this is how we created all of it. If you're not already subscribed to MINEPOMP TV, I would tell you to make sure that you do that because again, that's what we did that to complement all the programming and to be used as a tool. And then when you get online training was kind of fun for me while I was doing it. I did it for about two years now and it took me a while to really figure out how I could help someone the same way I was coaching someone, if I was coaching someone one-on-one you really can never quite give that good of service and my goal was to get there as close as I could and I felt like I did towards the end of doing it but I also felt like it's really tough to scale it. It's tough to give this one-on-one attention. I felt once I went beyond 10 clients, my online coaching started to suffer. I know both you guys have played around with it. Yeah, well I was gonna say too, our programs aside, that's the biggest thing is to be able to set yourself up so you can scale. So you have all the answers before going into that situation where you're trying to coach so you need to really think about what systems you have to put into place with the very first conversation leading into the follow-ups, leading into how you deliver the workouts, how you deliver the nutrition advice. So your platform, for me, like I did it previous to you, like back when it was sort of a little more unpolished, but I did find a great platform at the time that they actually had a lot of videos in their library catalog that I pulled from but then I could also have the ability to shoot some of my own and then I could build up my own library. And so they had a really cool delivery system where I could kind of drag and drop and put it into place. So that way, like time-wise, it wasn't too taxing. Like I could put them all in a row, I could send them off a workout every day or just the weekly workout or wherever we had set up for that. But that was all well thought out. And then I had the plan for the week, the month, all that nutritionally. And then all we did from there was just communicate. It's just like the text interaction and then the motivation aspect, which is very time consuming. Well, okay, so I'm glad you said that because what I was gonna say, the biggest challenge that I found with online coaching and what I had to start to do, and I would do this when someone first would inquire about it, is I would lay it out to them that I'm not your personal trainer and I'm not here for motivation. I'm here to coach you, which means you have to want to do this. You have to want to learn, you have to put the work in because, and that's the real difference than a one-on-one person who's paying for your hour and they come to see you. Like, they get that. They paid for that hour, they're coming to see you for that hour, they're gonna get the raw trainer in you, then you're gonna motivate them to work out where that is now eliminated. So I found that I could not have a client that was online that required this constant, you know, motivation of you gotta get to the gym or you gotta do these things. So I actually made a daily check-in that they have to do to me. So every morning, so anybody who's online coached with me knows this, that every morning I get this check-in and it's got their weight from the night before, their weight in the morning, how much water they had, a screenshot of their Fat Secret app so I can tell what food they consumed and like a thumbs up I did my workout. So I put a lot of responsibility on the client that is training with me because I know that if they're not doing those little things, I really can't help them virtually because that's the only way I'm gonna be able to help them is if I can see exactly what they're doing every single day, they're putting that work in, then I can make these subtle tweaks and changes to really coach them and help them. But if you treat it the same way that you treat regular training like clients 101, which we all know, at least 50% of your clients, if not more, you know, let's be honest, are paying for your time to either one, just talk to you or two, they just, they want this motivation and you're constantly getting them motivated. You're reassured to be doing the right thing. Right. So those type of people are time suckers on online and you can't, if you're doing online and you're gonna scale this up and make a legitimate business out of it, you've gotta learn to be efficient with your time and part of that process for me was learning to put a lot of the responsibility on the client that's paying for the service because I'm just there to really coach and make tweaks and I need them to provide all the detailed information that I need in order to make the right tweaks. And if they don't do that, I would tell them, like, so here's the deal, when you sign up with me, it's a three month minimum contract. In that three months, I have the right to break the contract as your coach. And I will break that contract if you miss your check-ins. So if they're not checking in with me every morning, I let them get away with it maybe once or twice. And by the third time, I just, I break the contract and say, I don't have time to chase you and ask for this information to then turn around and give you your guidance that I'm totally pulling out of thin air because I don't have any information to go off of. So if they're not doing those things, I can't waste my time doing that. So I set these standards at the very beginning of the meeting or the Skype that I would have with this person and say, listen, this is what I need from you. And if you can't deliver these things, then I've gotta break the contract off and give somebody that time that is willing to put that work in. Yeah, the thing with online coaching that I've noticed is it has, it actually has some benefits. There's some detriments to it, but there's also some benefits over personal training. What I mean by that is when you train someone typically one-on-one in person, you may see that person for twice a week or once a week, usually it was twice a week. And after that, you wouldn't text them throughout the day, really. It was just the personal training. The thing I'm noticing with coaching is although I don't get to work with the person in person so I can't watch their form and I can't individualize their training quite to the same degree, I seem to be in contact with them more often and we seem to be talking about more day-to-day stuff because I'm on- More life stuff, less of the actual fitness coaching. Yeah, and it depends. It depends on your coaching style. Like if you're a trainer, if you're an online coach and all you wanna do is you wanna get their food, tell them what to eat, that kind of stuff and give them those types of direction, you could do it that way or you could do the support type coaching when we're talking about how certain things make you feel, talk about your sleep, talk about, it depends on, again, what kind of a coach you're gonna be but with online coaching, you can have some pretty good contact with an individual on a day-to-day basis but I think before you do that, you have to decide what you're gonna work on and how you're gonna coach these people because the day-to-day contact, that level of service, like Adam was saying, you can't really scale it that much. Once you get, if that's your only job, I could see maybe handling 20 people at the most but if that's all you did and after that, your service is probably gonna start to really take a big dip and so your fees are gonna be a lot more if you're gonna coach in that way and then there's other online coaches that'll handle 50 clients or more but what they're doing primarily is, here's your workout, here's your macro count, do this and then check in with me, afterwards type of deal but online coaching is, I think there's a huge future in it for fitness. I see it tends to cost less than personal training unless you hire a celebrity online coach. It allows people to, they don't have to necessarily go to a particular person, they can do it all just from their phone. The part that I like about it is I like the contact, I like the day-to-day contact, I like the fact that an online client can let me know what just happened when they ate this particular food or they're stressed out from work and what are some techniques that can help me out or I only slept this many hours and we can talk about those types of things. Believe it or not, those were things that I didn't talk to my one-on-one clients until I trained them for a really long time and we would just talk about those things during our session but I didn't really text them a lot throughout the day so, but as far as transitioning is concerned, you're gonna have to use social media a lot more than if you were just a personal trainer working one-on-one with clients. I think you gotta use social media both times regardless because that's just the way business works but if you're looking for clients to work with online, that's like 100% of your business is through social media. Developing a good Instagram page or Facebook or blog or some way to establish some type of authority to show that you know what you're doing to attract those clients. That's probably the number one priority as far as making. You're not gonna just convert what clients you have right now into online and that's gonna sustain your business. That's not gonna work like that. You really have to dig into the social media and figure out how to gain and attract people with your message and make it unique to you and you're gonna attract the right type of people that connect to you in your message. Yeah, I would set that as my first goal is to build my social media before I'm even trying to actually online coach. I would be trying to build my network of people. And build it the right way and what I mean by that is build it so that again you're building your authority. So you can build a page with 5,000 followers because you're good looking or whatever, you're posting half naked shots and you might get some clients that way but unless you're really, really good looking and you're on the cover of magazines or you compete at a high level and some kind of physique or bikini or whatever, it's not gonna turn into clients. And you don't need a lot of people, you don't need tons and tons of people following you on social media to build a halfway decent online coaching business. I would say a few thousand people at least following you but build it so that you're delivering good information so that the people who do follow you value you for your knowledge and then when you ask for business when you make a post saying, hey, I'm looking for online clients or I have openings, people will value you for your coaching and what you can do and then take it from there. I think it's a lot harder than people think. It's way harder than people think. What you just said is for sure probably some of the best advice in this area because we have a friend right now who is a reality TV star who has over a quarter million followers and he cannot convert his page to make money at all. And it's unfortunate because they all follow him because he's a reality TV star not because he's got this great information or knowledge to share with people. And so that's really tough. And think of that, people see that, they see that large of a page and they assume, oh, this person must make a bunch of money but then I've met somebody who's got 5,000 people and they've got a, I mean, shit, someone like Beidros. Beidros has got 12,000 people. That motherfucker is- Well, he's done it all through Facebook. Right, he did it before that. Point is though, the following on there is less important. If they're not following you for whatever it is, and we're using fitness example but this is advice for anybody who's trying to do an online business. If you have an online business, your personal page should somewhat reflect the knowledge or information that you provide or give out there or you're gonna have a real fucking hard time and you should be interacting with those people. You're probably better off being a little specialized too. I would assume online, you have such a wide reach that if you just say I'm a trainer, I'm a coach, you're probably better off specializing in an area like gut health or specializing glute training or I specialize in building strength or boom, whatever people need to start focusing on that community. Like I'm gonna be honest, that's where the money is right now. If you're a trainer and you can't figure out what to do as far as like getting a niche, look into training, this silver population, if you will. Silver sneakers. Quick commercial break, you guys. We keep getting asked all the time how can I support the Mind Pump family? Here's one of the best ways you guys can. You guys love that Chimera coffee that we have. Chimera coffee with a K. You go to chimeracoffee.com, put in the discount code Mind Pump for 10% at the checkout. Also, you guys, if you guys have not tried Ben Greenfield's new bars out, they're fantastic. If you want some, go to bengreenfieldfitness.com forward slash nature bite, put in the code Mind Pump and get 10% off, go check it out. Our next question is from Dio Cristina. What are your thoughts about resistance bands? Yeah, yeah. Love them. Yeah. Love resistance bands. Obviously, obviously Cristina does not have any of our MAPS programs. Trigger sessions much? Or she would know that resistance bands are in our programs, so big fans. Resistance bands have a unique resistance curve that's different than when you're lifting weights or machines in the sense that the more you stretch the band, the harder the resistance gets. They require a different level of control, and I would go as far as to say, and I would put money on this, that resistance bands don't cause as much damage to muscles as lifting weights do. And so this is something that you can take advantage of. So I can do, for example, if I did a heavy workout yesterday, and I want to do another workout today, but I'm still kind of sore, doing a full resistance band based routine might be a good idea because I'm not going to damage the muscles, like I would if I used weights, but I am going to send a good muscle building signal. Resistance bands are also phenomenal tools to use in conjunction with weights to build strength. Power lifters and strength athletes use them quite a bit because of that variable resistance. And they can use that to kind of target sticking points, if you will, in certain specific lifts. So it's a valuable tool on so many different levels. Or just different angles. Like I used to do dead lifts where I would attach the bands around the bar with weight. So I had weight on them too, but then the band was kind of anchored away from me. So that not only am I getting resistance on the way up, but on the way back, which is forcing me to lean back. So now you have to account for that force as well. Yeah, and create that really tight lockout at the very top. Huge fans of bands. What Adam was alluding to in our MAPS programs, MAPS and Ebola, in particular, recommends bands specifically for trigger sessions, both for their convenience, but also because I've done lots of experimenting with this with myself and with clients, and trigger sessions just seem to do, just work better with resistance bands. It's much, it's more likely to overdo it with weights where I've had people do trigger sessions with weights. I use bands every day. Every day I use bands. And if I'm not using them for a trigger session, then I'm using them from some way of priming or mobility stuff. Every day I use bands. There's just so many uses, four bands are so convenient, you can throw them in your gym bag. It's just a great tool and resource to have. We have them on the website. Do we still have them on the website? We have them on the website, right? Are the ones that we are affiliated with? Yeah, yeah. So we have bands on there. It comes with a whole set. And it comes with a, what I really liked, why we, part of the reason others, then they have badass bands and they're really durable, but they also have these cool door wedge things. So you can put it on the side of a door, on the top of a door, on the bottom of a door and just hook your bands up anywhere. So it comes in a little, tiny little bag and I take them to hotel rooms all the time when I travel and so I do them with trigger sessions and then like I said, with mobility and prime stuff. So yeah, no huge, you know, when you said the comment about that you speculate that they don't do as much damage, do you think that is because it follows like the natural strength curve? You think that's why it is? Because it's already our natural strength curve for it to be really easy at the bottom of the rep. It definitely accentuates each contraction phase. So like you have to go through like eccentric, like you really have to be able to control that force on the way back as well with bands. You know, you can sort of bypass that with like dumbbells or like you can, you can, well, I guess you could drop it too with the bands as well, but yeah, I feel like it's a more linear like projected resistance. So I'm following this pathway and you know, it is, it's taking me through those very specific phases of contraction smoothly. It's interesting because this is one of those cases where it's hard to pinpoint why exactly. Yeah, we're totally speculating right now. Yeah, because it's like, it's like when people are like, well, why are free weights, why do free weights build more muscle to machines? And we can sit here and speculate all day long, but we just know, we just feel it. We know it through experience and this is one of those things with bands. Like I could do a very hard workout with bands. Like I could go to failure, I could beat the shit out of myself and there's, it will not make me nearly a sore or as hammered as a free weight workout. And I've also experienced where... Maybe it's just the constant tension it provides too. You know. It's just different. I don't think it just creates as much damage and I'm not quite sure why. Well, because your body's responding because of this. I mean, it literally is forces of resistance that's going against you. So you have to account for that. So you're already your central nervous system is active. It's an active movement, the entire range of motion. Whereas, you know, you could sort of like relax and depend on the joint to, you know, sustain some of the forces. I feel like it's because it's following your natural strength curve. So imagine this like, let's say we're gonna use a rubber band bicep curl. If one of us will just say that like a heavy dumbbell curl for one of us would be 50 pound dumbbell. And if you did a band, you could not do a resistance band that is 50 pounds of pressure at your full extension. So you have to do a band that is at 25 pounds of pressure, but then maybe at the top where you're at the strongest, you hit the peak of that 50 pounds at the top and then it goes to 40 pounds. So it lightens up, yeah, in your extension. It lightens up when you use bands, it's at its lightest resistance at your weakest point. And when you're at your strongest point, the bands are at its greatest resistance. So to me, it's almost like if I had a 50 pound dumbbell because that's a- It's peak in your strongest position. Where I'm strongest, and then as I'm opening it up, now I have a 40 pound, 30 pound, 20 pound, 10 pound dumbbell. And maybe that's why we feel like it doesn't do as much damage. So here's why I disagree with that. It does do that. The resistance you're explaining is, I mean, yeah, that's one of the hallmarks of bands. But here's why I disagree and why I think it's a mystery. Because there are machines that will do that. There are ways you can overload your bicep or muscle where it's strongest. And if anything, that damages the muscle more. Because you're testing your muscle in different ranges. You're giving it more resistance where it's strongest and less resistance where it's weakest. And here's an example. You guys have all done squats with bands before where you have the barbell that's got weights on it and then it has bands, right? Or deadlift, right? And then you've done the same thing with chains, which do the same thing. A chain gets heavier at the top and is lighter at the bottom. But chains fuck you up way more. You get sore from chains very differently than you do from bands. So I'm not quite sure what it is about bands. I mean, because I would say, okay, it has to do with the resistance curve, but you can do that similarly with chains. Chains will do the same thing, but chains, you can't handle doing a bunch of chain exercises all the times. But I could do band exercises every single day without creating as much damage, which again, I think is a strength of it. Again, we're speculating, of course. I think it's a strength of bands because- It's fine, too, though. This is a total speculating episode of you guys. I got no answer, I got no real answer for you, but- That's why I took a stand- That's a decent argument, that's a decent argument, but whatever. It's interesting though, right? But I think we all agree that bands are super valuable tool to be utilized with your training, so. Absolutely. Fowler Fit, what are your thoughts about trainers with only a certification giving both workout and nutrition advice? Does having a degree, Trump, self-obtained knowledge and experience in your opinion? Oh, wow. They must not know. Yeah, well, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what, while speaking from just for us, the only person in this room or on the mics, I should say, with a degree in fitness is Justin. Both Adam and I do not have a degree in this. We've held certifications, but it's all experience-based. I'll tell you what, you pick any, I don't give a fuck what job it is. You pick any job, no degree will Trump experience. Unless you actually, yeah, apply it in experience. That's what I'm saying, like, if you took- But don't just, yeah, you can't discount, like, education. Well, even a brain surgeon, if a brain surgeon going through 12 years of school versus a guy who started and was taught by some brain surgeon and he did 12 years of brain surgery, I would take the guy who did 12 years of brain surgery over the guy that went through 12 years of school. That's the apprenticeship model, which no longer exists, unfortunately, but which is stupid. I believe that's the evolution of our education is heading that way. I think so too. I think it's- More specialized. Much more specialized. I think you go through basic education and then you wanna do something. You go work for someone as an apprentice making a little bit of money and you learn, you know, through experience because I'll tell you, look, I know through experience with trainers. I've had lots of trainers work for me and I've had trainers who've got basic certification and those with advanced degrees and depends on how well they apply themselves to the job and a year later- That's it. They both can be just as good or the one without the degree can be much better. The one with the degree can be much better. Just depends how they apply. I'll tell you something that's crazy that I've noticed in all the tons of trainers, right? I don't know how many, but there's been a lot of trainers that have worked for me over the years and both I've had everything from no degree whatsoever, tons of experience, little experience, yada, yada, like in masters, even some PhDs have worked for me as a trainer and what I have found that is very interesting to me is a lot of times even somebody who has a degree, like so, and I used to get excited, oh yeah, this person's got their, your master's in kinesis, this is great, they're gonna be so smart. A lot of times I would get these, you know, fresh out of college or maybe a year or two out of college students with their degree in the field and because they worked so hard in school and they were done, they accomplished it, they got it. They were like over learning. You're entitled. Yeah, not only do they feel, they're either entitled or they're done learning. They're like, fuck, I did it, I did it. Like everybody told me I need to go get my degree, I fucking worked my ass off, I studied, I fucking crammed, I got it, I'm here, I made it. And then they stop wanting to read. Many times I would get this, I would get this really, really smart trainer that has got a degree in the field and they just have no desire to read anymore because they've spent the last eight years reading about this subject and they don't wanna do it anymore. And then I'll get somebody who has no degree whatsoever but is just hungry for knowledge and is constantly growing and learning and challenging the norm and science and how it's evolving and changing. And that guy or girl, more often than not, ends up being the better trainer. Fresh out of school, if I compared somebody who has a kinesis versus the kid who just walked straight out of high school and I had to hire both of them, well, no fucking shit the kinesiology degree is gonna be a way better trainer if you compare those two. But man, you take the kid who went to school for eight years and then the kid who for eight years was training clients, I'll take the kid that was training clients for eight years all day. And the part that sucks about this too though is that experience, neither one of them mean you're guaranteed to work with a good trainer. Right, right, because I have a story for the guys and girls that have been doing it for eight years that are terrible too. And there's the hustlers that are good too but they don't know what the fuck they're talking about either. So I mean, it really just amounts to that hunger and that desire to always learn and to be open to just getting in there and doing work and learning. So there's plenty of valuable things to apply from experience. I mean, you learn every single day like all these different variables that are coming to present and you have to go back and reference or just getting down your systems and the way that you deliver your message, like how you communicate to your clients. Like there's just so many nuance things that if you're gonna come in with this attitude that I've learned all this stuff from school and so I have, man, people should just flock to me. I've met so many trainers like this and it's frustrating because I know you're a smart guy or I know you're a smart girl but you need to, like, you're gonna be humbled real quick. You're gonna be humbled real quick because it just doesn't come to you like that. You have to work and you have to put the effort in there. Well, I have a theory on this too is, I mean, when you look at kinesis, physical education, you know, what are some of the other degrees in our field? Sports medicine. Yeah, sports medicine, even some like biology majors you get some crossover there. So let's say all these that are related in the field, none of them cover human psychology. And in my opinion, psychology and understanding human behavior is so important to learning to helping people. Like that is, you could be so smart when it comes to biomechanics or nutrition and like know all the X's and O's but if you have poor communication you don't understand human behavior, you don't understand psychology, you don't understand that piece, fuck. Yeah, good luck. Yeah, that's more to me. That should be like step one really. Well, to me, I've seen good trainers now with degrees in psychology that actually excel really well but they don't have the kinesis background because they understand people really well. Yeah, and there's also like how much time do you spend in the gym doing and perfecting form and exercises with different people with all of those degrees? Honestly, not very much at all, if any. I've had trainers come in who have their degrees in whatever field and they've never done a barbell row ever. Like they didn't even go- They read about it though. They read about it but they never did it. They never experienced it, they never did. And so when I watched them training clients, after they're done, I'd walk up to them and be like, you know that her, she's not getting good scapular attraction or whatever. Well, no, the road looks good. She's moving back and like you don't see that these things are, like this all comes from experience. But again, just because someone's been doing it for a long time, doesn't necessarily mean that they have the right experience. But I would take experience over education most times. Here's the thing what education does. Here's one of the great things that it does. When you see that someone has a degree, what that tells you is that they have a certain degree of seriousness. Yeah, like they're relatively serious about what they're trying to do because they dedicated four years or six years or eight years into a particular field. So you know that that person, or at least it's a better, it gives you a little bit of a better feel that that person may be more serious about pursuing this particular field of knowledge versus someone who I just have a degree from whatever certification, which took 30 days of study and then I passed the test. They could be very serious about what they're doing or it could be like a lot of people who get certifications. Do you know how many trainers, or excuse me, you know how many people or certified personal trainers that just aren't personal trainers anymore that have gotten the certification? Oh man, I have friends that really looked into the field and I helped them get through these certifications and then just never, never took off. Never used it. Never used it. So when you see someone who has a bachelor's or a master's in kinesiology or sport medicine, at least you kind of know that that person takes that field seriously. So you're dealing with someone who's got a certain level of seriousness and commitment to that. Same thing if you see a personal trainer who's been a personal trainer for four, six, or eight years. You know that that person, and it's their full-time job, like you know that that person kind of takes it seriously. Not a lot of them make it beyond four or five years if you're not pretty good. I mean, there is exceptions to the rule. You said there are people that are around that have been doing it for a long time that are shitty, but it's more rare, I think, to find, it's more common to find somebody who has a degree in the field and is kaka than somebody who has been in the field and training clients for over six years and it doesn't act grasped very well or can't give very good advice. Typically, if they survived, because being a personal trainer is not easy financially. It's not like this, you know, ever. Very few people make a lot of money. Yeah, and so if you're pretty financially successful as a personal trainer and you've been doing it for over five years, you probably get a decent amount of knowledge. I mean, you could be incredibly good at marketing yourself, which we see that too, but I think more often than not, you see somebody who knows a little bit more than the average person. You do see a lot of people with advanced degrees who maybe start in personal training, but then do something else, you know what I mean? They end up in the medical side or they end up working. Yeah, I've seen that a bit too. In rehab clinics and stuff like that, mainly because I think if you graduate with a six-year degree and then you go and you're making 15 bucks an hour as a personal trainer, you're probably like, fuck this, I wanna make more money and go do something else. Yeah, very common. Or they have a hard time communicating to people and they wanna get in the lab. Ah, people! Yeah, it's very true. It's people. Quick commercial break. Hey, people ask us all the time how they can support Mind Pump. Here's what you can do. You can go to www.brain.fm forward slash mind pump and get 20% off Brain FM for meditation or focus. You can also go to audibletrial.com forward slash mind pump and get a 30-day trial plus one free audio book. Lastly, you can go to getnatureblend.com forward slash mind pump and you will get a discount on Ben Greenfield's CBD product. Nicole and Marie Fit. Tight IT bands are causing knee pain. What are good ways to relieve it? Foam rolling, but it's not helping. So in the past, the way I would handle IT band issues was primarily through some kind of soft tissue work and manipulation with foam rolling, with massage, with stretching, which are all parts of the solution. Those are all parts of the solution, but they are not the solution. Nope. A lot of the pain relief you'll get from doing those things is temporary, but it's not really solving what the root cause of the problem is. In most people, not all, but in most people, having issues with the ileotibial band has to do with the weakness in the hips, and lateral that abduction of the hips. The IT band attaches, well, it wraps down around the knee and around the shin, but it comes up and attaches to the tensa, what's it called, tensor fascialate? Yeah, tensa, TFL. TFL muscle, and to the gluteus maximus. And if you have an imbalance in the hips or weakness in the muscles that abduct the leg, that is like, imagine like you're doing like a sideways leg raise or whatever. Leg swing. Or a leg swing. If there's an imbalance there, and you're doing all of this sagittal plane type of work, like running and squatting and everything's in front of you, those muscles kind of get, they can be, there's a big imbalance there because they're not strong enough to support that forward motion. And it causes issues with those muscles which then are felt down the IT band. So then you foam roll them, it's temporary. Then you go to your run or whatever, but you find yourself having to foam roll every single time. Happening over and over again. This was me. This was me. I had the IT band. I had to foam roll all the time. Remember, the foam rolling is only temporary relief. You are not fixing the problem. You're not addressing the root cause when we foam roll. So nothing wrong with foam rolling. If you like to foam roll and it gives you some sort of relief, there's nothing wrong with that, but you're not addressing the issue. And so you're gonna continue to see it keep coming if you don't get to the hips and actually start to work on them. This is part of Maps Prime Pro. So if you have Maps Prime Pro, this is where you would go to the hip section and you would do all the movements for the hips. And I'll tell you right now, you put this into play for a week, two weeks, you'll already see a significant difference. Big time relief. Right away, right away. Have you, did we make a YouTube video on the 90 90 and then doing the external internal tension movement? We did. I would highly recommend watching that YouTube video because getting into 90 90 position on the ground and then trying to- Correctly on its own is as a task. Yes. The video is pretty good. We did a good job. I think was Brink in this video. He was. So people know it's a good time to bring this up because I think we have a lot of people on this show that don't know this. So Mind Pump TV is our YouTube channel. The idea of Mind Pump TV is to compliment any and all of our programs and give lots of free information also like the podcast. So like Sal is saying, even if you don't have the program, there's stuff on there that you can find that will help you. But for sure, if you own- There are more like modifications to what we have as sort of like foundational exercises a lot of times, but even at the same time, it's very complimentary with each other. Right. And you'll notice on every video, there's gonna be like a maps logo and it'll be the color of the program that it's referring to. So in this case, because Maps Prime Pro is blue and so all the blue videos are referring to Maps Prime Pro. Any of the yellow ones are all referring to Maps Prime, all the red for Maps Anabolic. So if you're following one of the programs or even if you don't have the programs, but you want some of the type of information that we're providing inside them, look for those colors. So when we are addressing imbalances, this goes for people that don't even have IT issues. So yes, IT of course gets addressed in here. We try to address all the major issues. So if you're somebody that has IT for sure, refer that way, but if you're dealing with any sort of joint pain at all on your body, refer to any videos that have the blue and possibly the yellow Maps logo on them. Now this particular individual, I know, she's a competitor, a bikini competitor. So she's not doing a lot of running because a lot of times IT band issues come from people who run a lot. So that's real calming among runners and cyclists. But if you're a person that lifts a lot of weights, your IT band pain is probably higher up on the leg, probably mid thigh up towards the hip. And I would recommend movements that work on abduction. This may be one of the few times I'd recommend the good girl, bad girl exercise. Yeah, how are you bringing it back? Where you're pushing the legs out, the one that's abducting. That will help clam shells on the ground or you can use a resistance band on the ground. That'll definitely help. Leg swings, like Adam said earlier, are a great exercise. Foam rolling, I wouldn't say don't stop foam rolling because what foam rolling does is it alleviates- It allows you to move better, at least in that moment. Yeah, and it's like what massage does. If it allows you to move in a way that now allows you to strengthen a new recruitment pattern or a favorable one, then it's beneficial. So I would say foam roll before- I foam roll before and then do MAPS Prime Pro. That's when I have these issues, just so you know, IT is a motherfucker on me. Now you felt it all the way up at the hip, right? And to the knee, I've had both. So I've had- It's very, very common. Yeah, it is, it's very common. And this one's very dear to my heart because I have it so bad that when I get massages, if I have not been taking care of this and she probably can relate to this- Almost makes you wanna cry. Oh, it'll shoot me off the table when the therapist comes down. And when she hits it, it feels like someone takes a blade and sticks it right into my bone all at once. And it'll make me flop like a fish right off the table. It's excruciating pain. And it's crazy to have something so painful that I can totally get rid of if I just do these little movements. So absolutely you can fix this. Absolutely it'll blow your mind as soon as you start to apply it, but you just gotta do it. The foam roll into the MAPS Prime Pro exercises, fucking hands down, we'll fix this completely. Yeah, and if you don't have the program, just here's an easy basic routine. Do your foam roll, then do 90, 90. We have the video on YouTube. I believe she's a trainer too, right? I'm not sure. I know she's a competitor. I think Nicole's a trainer too. I know she's a competitor. If you're a trainer, you better own the damn program because this is something that you should be using this for clients for sure. Just for the information that you'll get from MAPS Prime Pro. And get it, if it doesn't blow your mind, I'll give you your money back right away. We have a 30 day money back guarantee you, but I'll give you a damn t-shirt too if it doesn't blow your mind. It's how much I'm confident I feel on it. You go foam roll, 90, 90, do some leg swings and some kind of abduction. Then go into your workout and see how you feel. You can even go so far as putting a band around your knees so that when you squat, you have to push them out a little bit and that might actually alleviate some of the pain. That was a big fix for me. But yeah, Prime Pro is, I mean, that's gonna solve this problem very, very quickly. Actually just got a message from someone who within the first week they got rid of this exact thing. So pretty cool stuff. Check this out. We just talked about videos. We post a new video every single day on our YouTube channel. So Mind Pump TV, that's the channel. Just type it in the search function. It comes up tons and tons of awesome information. Also, we are offering 30 days of coaching and it's for free. So when you register, you go to mindpumpmedia.com. When you register for that, you're gonna get all kinds of information, all the most important information that we think you should know filtered through Mind Pump so you know it's good information. Lastly, if you'd like to ask us a question that we answered on an episode like this one, the place to ask it on is Instagram and the page to ask it on is Mind Pump Media. We also have personal pages. My page is Mind Pump Sal, Adam is Mind Pump Adam and Justin is Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbumble is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbumble has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.