 Okay, should we get started? All right. Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining. Just before we start, I'll just take you through a couple of housekeeping things for the presentation. So this webinar will be recorded and the recording will be made available after the event. For the duration of this webinar, your microphone has been automatically muted. So if you'd like to submit a question, please click on the Q&A button at the bottom of the screen. If you don't wish for your question or comment to be in the recording, please contact science at anew.edu.au. So I'll post that website in the chat for everyone. And I'll hand you over to Ian. Thank you, Kelly. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Ian Walker. I'm Director of the Research School of Psychology at the ANU. I will try and share my screen now. The technology works here. Okay, so welcome. Let me start by acknowledging the Nanowall people, the traditional owners of the land on which I live and work, which we meet today, and pay my respects to elders past and present. Kelly's already let you know how to post questions as we go through. I hope you have enough time, plenty of time at the end of my short presentation for us to run through all your questions. So today I'll run through in order some aspects about studying psychology generally and also about psychology at the ANU and talk about how you become a psychologist in this country and what the employment prospects are. Sorry to interrupt Ian, your presentation just hasn't come up. Oh, okay. Excuse me, everyone. It's there five minutes ago. We're perfectly before. Yeah. Can you see anything now, Kelly? Yep, that's perfect. Okay. Excuse me, everyone. There we go. So as I was saying, I'll run through some aspects about what psychology is. What sort of careers it can lead to pathways to becoming the psychologist in Australia. A little bit about psychology at the ANU and lend all of that might take half an hour or so, and that should leave us 20 or 30 minutes for Q&A at the end. As Kelly said in the introduction, as we go through, if you have any questions, use the Q&A function at the bottom of the screen. Type your questions in there and Kelly will be the moderator for the session and we'll go through your questions at the end. So first of all, what is psychology? I'm gathering many of you. Most of you in the audience are probably coming to the end of your time at high school, but given the times we're in right now, it's quite possible. Also, many of you are looking for retraining or just redesigning your work life, your career. Across everyone, there's some misunderstanding in the community, I guess, about exactly what psychology is. And there is a popular conception that psychology is really kind of psychotherapy or psychoanalysis or psychiatry. It's really important to let everyone know to be clear that psychology is not psychiatry, nor is it psychotherapy, nor is it counseling. It's important, or there are differences, important differences between all of those different professions. Psychiatry, for example, requires that you do a medical degree to begin with, and psychology does not. Counseling, for example, is not a registered, regulated profession in this country. Psychology is lots of important differences. Psychology is the scientific study of human behavior and experience. It's the science of what it is to be a human. It's a set of knowledge that we have about you and me and us and them. So along with being a science, psychology is also a form of professional practice. It's the application of psychological knowledge to assessment and intervention for behavioral and other sorts of problems. And that is, I guess, the latter part is really what most people think of when they think of psychology. In Australia and most of the English-speaking parts of the world, psychology as a profession is built on something known as the scientist, practitioner model. And all of psychological practice in the profession of psychology rests on fundamental science of humans. So in other words, psychology is both a discipline of science and an area of professional practice. There's some major areas of study within the discipline. So it's not just a single uniform science, but has many different aspects. Developmental psychology looks at how humans change across the lifespan from cradle to the grave. Learning and forgetting is a really important area. The Department of Psychology looks at the ways in which we process information and the relationships between how we understand or how we process information, both consciously and unconsciously, and things like emotion, effect and behavior. A science of humans inevitably has to look at biological aspects, including your psychology. It's a very part of what it is to be a human. It depends on how we perceive the world around us, so how we acquire information and experience through various senses. Social psychology looks at beliefs, values, attitudes, how they relate to behavior, but also how we behave and experience life in groups and crowns. Psychology is what I referred to earlier. It's really the professional practice of psychology. And health psychology is a burgeoning area these days, and looks at interventions to try to promote healthier ways of living. So it's not directly clinical psychology, it's relevant to all of us. Psychology is a way to encourage healthier, better lifestyles, better use of exercise, better diet, maintaining better body weight and so on. Psychology is a really popular area of study within Australia, well, within Australian universities. To me, it's important to state many people who completed an undergraduate psychology degree do not go on to work as professional practicing psychologists as registered psychologists. Many, possibly even a majority of students who do an undergraduate degree in psychology end up in a whole variety of jobs that are not closely related to psychology or don't require registration as a psychologist. The sorts of jobs do psychology graduates go into after graduation. I've posted here or grabbed a screenshot from a website that's hosted by Deakin University School of Psychology and put the web address at the bottom there. I recommend you go and have a look, have a play around with that website. It really does a very good job. The best job I'm aware of in Australia at describing the sorts of jobs that psychology graduates are eligible to apply for includes the community sector, helping human services, working in their children's families, most states and territories have a department, government department of families and children. Many people go into government policy and research, working with justice system and all sorts of areas. So a psychology degree, even if you don't go on to become a registered psychologist, can take you many, many different places. Another useful resource for you is going to Australian Psychological Society's website. The APS is the peak professional body for psychology in this country. The website, again, I'll put a screen grab there, includes some information that's freely available to the public, including information about careers in psychology, which is the tab I've highlighted there. The tab just below that, head of psychologists talk about their careers. There's a fairly interesting insight into the experience that many people have around the country, working in psychology. So if you want to get a snippet of what it's like in the many different, working in the many different facets of psychology, I commend that to you to have a read, have a listen, full of all sorts of insights there. But just generally that website is useful if you're trying to scope out where a psychology degree might take you. The APS also runs this facility here, Psych Exchange, which is really a job registered where you can search using keywords, locations and so on for jobs that are available to people who are registered psychologists. So this is beyond undergraduate training. So just last week, I didn't say last week I typed in or access that job site. And I think there were about 1800 jobs listed there. Sorry, this one had 206 current jobs available for people who are registered psychologists. Of course, you can always have a look at the more traditional or common job sites such as Seek. And again, last week I just typed in psychology didn't constrain it by area or anything. And there were 3800 jobs listed there related or that popped up just using the keyword search for psychology. So if you had the stage in your life right now where you're looking trying to decide what sort of degree time to take to double lead into different sorts of careers. It's really worthwhile spending some time just looking to see what sort of jobs are available and what sort of requirement degree requirements those jobs have and where a psychology degree can take you. This is a screen grab from a job. Sorry, our website run by the federal government called job output. You're always down the bottom there. And again, it's a useful resource to have a look at. So if you go to that website and type in psychology. I'll give you this information did last week that the average weekly pay in Australia for people working as a psychologist or a psychotherapist has been more than 1800 bucks a week. More importantly though the future group for that occupation is anticipated to be very strong. I think if you're at the start of undergraduate study. That's an important thing to know the job prospects in this area seem to be very strong. And it has been like that for many years. I don't imagine it's going to diminish anytime soon. And certainly through all the various crises that we've lived through in this country this year. In every single one mental health provision and mental health support and support services has been front and center from bushfires through public mental health issues well being issues are central. There is a very strong need, and there will continue to be a very strong need for people trained in those areas and able to work there. I'm not sure about what you want to do following graduation. It's well worth the time. Having a look around at some of those resources to see where I'll take you. Simple and also to remember that. And I'm sure you've heard many, many times already. So jobs of the future, not the jobs that we know right now, and that predictions are that people finishing high school now probably have about five or six changes of career and not just changes of job but changes of career across their working life. A psychology degree is an extremely versatile degree, probably because it gives you were sometimes called hard skills gives you direct knowledge about the science and the practice of psychology, but also built into a psychology degree is a whole set of soft skills, and it's often those soft skills that will get you jobs in areas that are just a degree or two away from narrowly defined jobs in psychology. So degree in psychology will involve an awful lot of hard work, out of which you will develops so called soft skills and problem solving analytical skills critical thinking communication skills and so on. And those are highly employable skills to have. So that's a lot about the general landscape of psychology and future employment prospects switch a little bit now to talk about pathways to becoming a psychologist so in this country. The title of psychologist is a protected title, which means that if you want to work as a psychologist you must be registered as a psychologist. And if you practice or call yourself a psychologist and you're not registered that is in fact a criminal offence it's the same as calling calling yourself a lawyer or a doctor or dentist or somebody else. Don't do it. It's a bad thing. So to become a registered psychologist required a number of pathways to becoming a registered practicing psychologist. All the pathways require postgraduate studies or three year qualification will not get you allow you to be registered you need to do a bit more study after that. But all the pathways require initially a three year undergraduate degree in psychology. And importantly, all your qualifications including your initial undergraduate degree must be from an accredited program. In Australia there's a thing called the Australian psychology accreditation Council APAC, which assesses every single program that's offered in psychology around the country. Every five years. So every school or department of psychology and all those programs of study are reviewed or received by APAC for accreditation. And if you have a qualified, if you want to register, all your qualifications must be from APAC accredited programs. All of a new psychology programs are. So this is where it starts to become a little complicated. So this diagram comes from the student psychological society's website. And it shows you different pathways to registration as a psychologist. So all the pathways start with top of the diagram with step one, you must complete an undergraduate psychology sequence, a three year degree in psychology. You don't necessarily have completed a degree in something else. You don't necessarily have to complete a whole another degree you can either enter an undergraduate degree and get credit and exemption or you can do was sometimes called a graduate diploma in psychology, which is an equivalent. If you already have a degree. You then apply for and gain entry into a fourth year of study. Usually takes the form of an honors degree, but some universities also offer a postgraduate diploma as an equivalent. So if you're at that point right now, if you're completing your fourth year of study, then when we go to step three, on the left hand side, you see a box that says for four plus two internship. That is a pathway to registration, which requires four years of studying. So steps one and two plus two years full time equivalent supervised experience. That is a pathway that leads to general registration. That pathway will close in 2022 so for students commencing next year, you won't complete four years of four years of studying time to enter the profession through that pathway so that that's effectively closed for you now. So the next box along and step three, the five plus one is designed to replace the four plus two pathway. So you do steps one and step two. Then you must complete another year of study. It's sometimes called a master of professional psychology sometimes called a graduate diploma of psychology. So after that fifth year of study you do one year of supervised practice and after that you're eligible to register. The other pathways on on that step three row is a professional masters a combined masters and a PhD or a professional doctorate taking respectively two years, four years or three to four years to complete. After you finish your fourth year of study, which is usually an honest course, you enter one of those three degrees. And at the completion of that you're eligible to register for general registration. General registration means that you're able to practice as a psychologist. So to get a provider number for Medicare and you're eligible to claim or clients who are eligible to claim rebates for the time that they spend with you. There is an additional step in registration which is not required, but many people take that is to gain what is called an area of practice endorsement. We call call yourself a practice as a clinical psychologist or clinical neuropsychologist organizational psychologist educational psychologist. There's about 12 different areas of practice that psychology with a prefix with an adjective. Most people become clinical psychologists but other, I think 11 other different areas of practice. Those requires you initially to be generally registered and then do further complete a further registrar program. Following that, let's say you take the path to through clinical psychology you can register as a psychologist with a clinical area of practice endorsement. Then allows you to claim higher rebates or clients who claim higher rebates through Medicare and a bunch of other things. So the pathways to registration somewhat complicated. It takes a little while to get your head around it. But every single pathway requires people to start to complete a three year degree in psychology. There is another way of doing of being a psychologist and that is to do what I did and what my colleagues in school did and that is become an academic or research psychologist. And they usually requires a PhD. PhD takes a three year undergrad degree followed by one years of honors, followed by a PhD was usually mostly three to four years but sometimes takes quite a bit longer than that. And now to talk a little bit about psychology at the AMU. So I mentioned earlier that if you want to start that again mentioned earlier that a pack of credits courses in psychology and departments or schools of psychology. Most universities in this country offer degrees in psychology. And as far as I'm aware, all of them offer accredited sequences in psychology. There is no university that I'm aware of in Australia that offers a course study in psychology that is not accredited. So that in a sense, let's give you some degree of comfort. It almost doesn't matter which university you go to you will be getting an accredited degree of qualification. And that means that the content delivery, which some sort of minimal standard, you'll get a good training in psychology almost no matter where you go. But then why would you choose to come to the AMU, rather than University of Canberra or Charles State University or any of the other 30 odd universities in the country. So, I'll say a little bit about how what I think makes us different and a little bit unique. This is another complicated slide is like pathways to registration. The AMU offers a number of different options to people wanting to do an undergraduate course in psychology. For most students taking psychology at the AMU, you will enroll in a Bachelor of Science Bracket Psychology. You don't have to do that though. You can just enroll in a Bachelor of Science or in a Bachelor of Arts. The entry options all have a minimum ATAR for entry with 80. A couple of other pathways open to when it's called a Bachelor of Psychology honours, an ATAR of 90. Now there is a Bachelor of Philosophy, which is an ATAR, entry ATAR of 99. In both of those programs, you'll do essentially the same amount of same psychology courses as part of your program of study, but you'll do a little bit more. So the Bachelor of Psychology honours requires you to do one or two more courses than the other options. And the Bachelor of Philosophy also requires or provides the opportunity but also requires students in that program to engage in a number of research activities with academic staff in the school. The Bachelor of Psychology honours and the Bachelor of Philosophy both guarantee you a four year sequence. So you get the three year degree and guaranteed entry into honours provided you maintain a grade point average of at least 75. The Bachelor of Science, Psychology and the Bachelor of Science and the Bachelor of Arts are three year programs of study that don't have any minimum GPA that you need to maintain. And at the end of those programs of study, if you want to do honours, you have to apply for entry. Normally entry into honours will require a GPA of about 75. The School of Psychology and you also offers a Master of Professional Psychology, a Master of Clinical Psychology, a PhD in Clinical Psychology, which are all pathways into registration. The Master of Professional Psychology, I've just mentioned here a little bit because it functions as an alternative to the honours. So at the end of three years, you complete a Bachelor of Science in Psychology or BA, you can apply for entry into honours or you can apply for entry into a Master of Professional Psychology which combines honours and the first year of a Master's Clinical Psychology course roughly. And at the completion of that, you're then eligible to register. So you know more about postgraduate study because it's the way down the track for you. You can also do a pursuer for the study and research either through a Master of Philosophy or PhD and there's no coursework, those are solely research and degrees. So why would you come to the ANU somewhere else? Partly because by a number of external international indicators, the ANU and psychology at the ANU are high status. We compete very, very strongly on the international stage. So once such set of rankings, the QS rankings put psychology at the ANU as fifth nationally out of about 14 and 31st globally. So you come into a high status, high quality School of Psychology and it's recognised as that. The way we deliver our whole undergraduate sequence and all our educational programmes are research driven. So there's a very strong emphasis on incorporating cutting-edge knowledge from the science and psychology into the classroom. The last two dot points on that slide refer to the fact that the vast majority of graduates out of psychology at ANU are satisfied with their educational experience at the ANU and they have outstanding job prospects, high employability, high styling salary. The data for those two claims come from the web address at the bottom there, Quilt. So Quilt is quality indicators for learning and teaching. It is a resource supported by the federal government and it involves annual surveys of current students and people who graduated in the previous year. And that's a bunch of questions about how satisfied were you with your time in the course? What are you doing after the course? And along with those resources I provided a little while ago, it is a useful, if you're weighing up where to go, what to study. It's a useful resource because it allows you to compare what students and graduates have said about their time wherever they're studying. So as an undergraduate student in the research school of psychology at ANU, you would be actively engaged in lab classes right from first year. So we do provide a lot of educational support online, but a lot of our classes are built around having students on campus, in labs, in lectures, in tutorials and encouraging that active engagement. It's better for learning, it's better for building the sense of a cohort and better for meeting new friends. Our classes are relatively small, so the lectures in first year and the two main courses that we offer in first year have an enrollment of around about 400, 450, which sounds a lot if you're coming from high school. But if you're going to the University of Sydney or the University of Queensland, the equivalent courses at those sorts of institutions have enrollments of about 1500 or more, so they're relatively small. So we maintain the lab classes at 20 to 25 people, and that allows students to have good relationships with tutors, with TAs and with the academic staff. The undergraduate course that we offer includes a number of electives that we're free to choose to enroll in. There are classes around areas of research strength in the school, so clinical and health psychology, professional perception and social psychology. There are many opportunities for students to become engaged in independent research with academic staff in the school, and the campus itself is thriving, current constraints are outstanding. So the AEMU itself is a relatively small research-led university with a very active, thriving, vibrant, on-campus life. The programs that we offer allow a fair degree of flexibility to students, so you can combine easily psychology with other science courses if you happen to have a bent towards biology or genetics or mathematics. But it's fairly easy to include that in there. If you, on the other hand, you're more inclined to history, sociology, philosophy, you can easily incorporate that study as well. The AEMU also allows you to combine degrees, so you can do a law science or an art science degree, at the end of which you will have two qualifications. For example, a law degree and a Bachelor of Science in Psychology degree. During that though, we'll often add an extra year of study to be able to require, it will allow you to complete all the requirements for both programs and study. Mindful of times, I'll skip through these, these are just lists of the courses that you will do in first year. A wide range of required courses in second year and in third year, so not all of those courses are required, some are and some are electives. And you can fill up your whole degree with them, pretty much, if you like. Then in honours, as I mentioned a little while ago, entry is competitive, it's based on your performance in the first three years and usually requires a great point average of about 75. And we admit maybe 50 to 60 straight and 70 dollars program each year. Half of your time there will be spent doing coursework. The other half is you get to do a research project under the supervision of an academic staff member. We should write up as a thesis at the end. And many of our students end up being able to publish the research that they do in honours. That's a lot of information presented fairly quickly. I'm sure maybe making a few heads spin, more than happy to try and answer the questions you have if you post them in the Q&A. If you're wanting to seek more information about psychology and about the ANU, I'd encourage you to go to the Open Day website. And you can also find out a lot more information about psychology at the ANU from our school's homepage. And it might be worth your while having a look at the Australian Psychological Society's website as well, just to see all the whole range of what the peak professional body of psychology in this country offers. Unless you know about psychology. There are some other presentations happening during orientation. It's not open week. Not orientation week. So Dr. Kristin Murray will be giving a talk on Tuesday, along with a couple of current students on pathways into professional psychology at the ANU. On Friday, the presentation from another colleague, Stephanie Goodhew, with some discovery demonstrations, if you like. And then there are some recorded sessions. Michael Plato, who is the Associate Director for Education within the School, will be giving a more detailed info. I'll give you more detailed information about what you will be doing as a student of psychology at the ANU. Then there are a couple of webinars that have been pre-recorded. One was led by Amy Dahl on social emotional tools for maintaining mental health during the pandemic. Another webinar that we in the school produced three or four months ago now, which was meant for as a resource for the general community about maintaining or resources for maintaining mental health during the pandemic. And Michael Plato has another webinar on the tempting title of greatness. If you want more information about how to apply to psychology or to any course, that top URL is where you need to go. And then, obviously, all of life at the ANU and all of life generally is severely restricted right now because of the COVID-19 pandemic. The advice for staff and students at the ANU changes in accordance with the most recent health advice and that advice is constantly updated on the website there. And you can go to the UAC website or the ANU website to apply. And I apologize for raising through a lot of sometimes dense information very quickly. But if you have any questions, please fire away. Thank you. Thanks, Ian. So there's one question that we've got a few times already and that's are there any pre-requisites that you need to study in Year 12 for psychology? So there's a short answer. It depends solely on your ATAR. And having said that, though, there are some things that are going to help a little bit more. So some of you may be aware there was a requirement in our psychology program. Indeed, in every psychology program in our own country that you take some courses in statistics and methods. Many students get a little bit anxious and put off by that. There is no need to be aware that students get anxious and we cater for that. We try to accommodate that. But if you're able and interested enough in doing some form of mathematics at Year 11 and 12, then that may help. So there's sort of mathematics in statistics in the undergraduate program. If you can calculate a change when you hand over $10 for a cup of coffee, that's enough that will get you through your stats class. So we've got another one. I'm interested in studying neuroscience as part of my undergraduate degree. What are some of the undergraduate options for this at ANU? There are a couple of courses in our undergraduate sequence that would be directly relevant. One is on neuropsychology explicitly and another is on biological psychology. So you would get exposure there. A couple of our academic staff or experts will do research on neuroscience and clinical neuroscience. I'm interested in stalking the work of Bruce Christensen, who is the director of our clinical programs. Have a look at his research because he does an enormous amount of research on clinical neuropsych. If you're enrolled in a Bachelor of Science, you can certainly pick up courses outside of psychology and biology and elsewhere that will cater to the interest in neuroscience and biological science more generally. This is a two-parter. Can I become a registered clinical psychologist through all of the undergraduate pathways that you mentioned? And is there a way to reduce the duration by taking up more units each semester? Can you say the first part of the question again, Kelly? Sorry. Can I become a registered clinical psychologist through all of the undergraduate pathways you mentioned? Yes, absolutely. Sorry. All of those undergraduate pathways, the BA, the BSc, BSc psych and the rest are all fully accredited. So they will function equivalently in terms of the pathway to registration. I should have said you don't have to complete all the different components of the educational requirements at the same university. You can do undergraduate degree at any new university. You can go to another university to do a Masters and many people do that. So you can take more psychology courses each semester throughout the whole time, but it won't necessarily. The only way you can speed up for three year timeframe for a degree is by overloading. So a normal full-time enrollment is four courses in a semester for two semesters in each of three years. You can overload taking five courses in a semester, but if you do that every semester, the most time you can save is six months. And I would generally not recommend doing it. It's spaced that way for a reason, so a full-time load of four courses should be treated the same as about the same amount of time and energy and commitment as a full-time job. So if you're studying four courses in a semester, set aside 40 hours a week to do that plus overtime when you come up to exam time and a lot of essays and things to do. Trying to squeeze more in might speed up the process by six months over three years, but I think you're probably not going to learn as much. It's kind of self-defeating. So I relish the time as a student and soak it up and love it because you don't get that time again once you start working. Okay, so the next two are about honours entry, but I'll do them separately. If I do the flexible double degree in say psychology and international relations, can I go on to do the honours or masters pathways to registration? Absolutely. So the minimum entry requirement for, well the minimum requirement for entry into honours and psychology is a GPA of 75. They're about based on your performance in psychology. So if you do international relations or philosophy or literature, we care less about that. Obviously we care about the fact that you're learning a lot and learning how to learn. But what we want, the minimum you need to do in your three year sequence is either 12 or 13 courses of studying psychology across the three years. The minimum is 12 or 13 depending on which of those various undergrad streams you take. When you do that, then you're eligible for entry into honours subject to a grade point average. So this one is if you complete a Bachelor of Arts majoring in psychology, as long as you have a 75 plus average, you could be considered for the honours program. Or do you need to complete additional psychology electives and have the great average to be considered? No, complete the minimum of either 12 or 12 if you're doing the BA psych, 12 courses within the psychology set of courses that we offer, or 13 in a couple of the other streams. That's the minimum. You can do more. Love you to do more. But as long as you do that and have that minimum grade point average, then you're eligible for entry into honours. And just a word about that grade point average for entry into honours. The minimum grade point average will vary a little bit from year to year because it's a competitive entry process. And every year we have a certain number of spots available in honours. And it's constrained by the number because as an honours student you spend 50% of your time working one on one with a member of academics after the research project. There's a constraint on the number of students we can reasonably accommodate and still give that supervision quality supervision. The grade point average, minimum grade point average for entry is usually about 75 but it can be higher if the cohort of students applying in any one year is particularly strong. But it won't really drop below, much below 75. I don't think it has dropped below 75. That's clear. All right, next one. Do most psychology graduates gain employment in the ACT or interstate? That's a very good question. I don't know the answer. Now, I stopped me. I'm sorry. I have to have the answer to that. Just anecdotally, I know that many students that I've had contact with who finished a three year or finished their honours degrees. I would say there's probably a roughly even mix of people who end up working in the ACT or end up moving into state. And of the ones who moved into state, I think most of them have wanted to. Really Melbourne or Sydney is what draws them. So I think the ACT currently is faring quite well in terms of employment rates. The hit to employment in the ACT has not been as hard because of COVID as it has been elsewhere. So yeah, but I don't know the data to answer the question accurately. You just got one follow-up one from those honours entry questions. Do the students that have gained entry to the BSc Psychology Honours Program have priority to the honours year as long as they've maintained their GPA? Students in the BSc Psychology and in the Bachelor of Philosophy are guaranteed entry through the whole four years into honours as long as they maintain that 75. GPA. It's not a question of priority. There's a little bit of juggling on that part that has to happen to accommodate all the students coming through the BSc honours and the being filled with everybody else. So it's not a question of priority, but just accommodating, if that makes sense. Okay, there's a couple here about masters. So one of the entry requirements to the Master of Professional Psychology is to referee reports. Are there any restrictions to qualification or referee? No, they're not any hard restrictions, but they ought to be, it would make sense and be in your interest to have referees who can comment knowledgeably about you and your performance in a particular job, if that's the case. But also, secondly, are able to comment on things that are directly relevant to what you're going to be doing in the MPP or the MCP courses and programs. So if you have a choice between two people who know you equally well, it obviously makes sense to choose one who's going to have a background in having insight into how you're likely to perform as a student in the Master of Professional Psychology program. But there's no, no hard requirement about the professional status of your referees. And another one about Masters, can you get into the Masters without completing the Honours year? Yes, in a complicated, roundabout sort of way. If you're just looking at the set of programs that we offer in you, the various combinations of undergraduate sequence honours, then the Master of Professional Psychology, the Master of Clinical Psychology, then no, you have to complete one of the three year set sequences, honours, and then into the Master of Clinical Psychology, or if you're going into the Master of Professional Psychology, you complete the three year sequence and then apply for entry into the MPP. But if you look around the country, other universities will offer Honours equivalent courses, often called a graduate diploma of psychology. So if you can complete one of them, so long as it's accredited, then that functions as the necessary gateway qualification into the Master of Clinical Psychology program. So you can go that way, you don't necessarily have to have honours, but if you say that's the only way you can do it. Next one, I have been accepted as flexible double degree psychology and commerce, should I choose Bachelor of Arts, or Science or Science Psychology, and is there any difference between these three? Question. Well, first of all, congratulations. Secondly, I don't say what I think, but I'm going to qualify this and suggest you also ask that question to the admissions people. Or if you email me separately, I can follow up the answer because I'm not 100% sure about this. So I'd probably recommend that you do the BSc site. And if not that then the BA. And just because it's a bit of fit with studying commerce. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter. But again, if you wanted to send me an email, my email address is ian.walkerau.edu.au. So I'm going to follow up just to make sure that I'm not giving you bad advice here. I'm very confident what I'm saying. But I would want to double check. So please do send me an email and I will follow it up. I am down to my last question now, which is could you also please show the slide on year two subjects again. Sure. So if anyone else has any questions, send them through. Some reason my machine is particularly slow right now. Is that showing up? Yep, that's there. Okay, so that's what we offer for second year courses. Some of them are required courses and some are electives. If you're only doing psychology, you'd be very free and welcome to enroll in all of them. But you don't have to. The information about all the courses at each year level is also all available on our research school of psychology homepage. You can access through the A&U homepage. And if you go to the A&U homepage, you can also search for programs and courses. It's called the repository of all the programs of study and courses that are on offer and you can find the type in biological basis of behavior. Give you a course description, information about the amount of assessment and so on as well so you can get a better sense of what's involved there. Anne just said thank you as well for reshowing that. You're welcome. Another one's come in. Is there any advantage to taking the Bachelor of Psychology Honours compared to the BA or the BCI? The advantage in what sense? If you're thinking about progressing into honours or the advantage of doing the Bachelor of Science. Let's start that again. No, it's the short answer. Not at all. Regardless of which one you're in, you have the same degree of flexibility for picking up electives in international studies or philosophy or commerce or whatever else you're interested in doing. Or just filling up as much of your program study was as much psychology as you can get. There are a lot of different functions basically identically. There's no difference made between students enrolled in any of those streams. You take the same courses of study, you do the same lectures, you do the same labs, you do the same assignments. There's not really any difference at all in your experience as a student. The only difference will be in the name of the qualification that you get. And BA counts just as much as a BSc or BSc Bracket Psychology. Many of us, I've got a BA, many of us do. Okay, so we've just got one. Someone's just missed what you said and just wants to confirm that you cannot become a registered clinical psychologist if you do the BSc. I shouldn't say that. So if you want to become a registered clinical psychologist. So if you're calling yourself a clinical psychologist, so I'm going to give a longer answer than you might hope for. A registered clinical psychologist means that you have an area of practice endorsement in clinical psychology. At that point, you need to have completed working backwards, you need to have completed two years of experience following a master of clinical psychology degree, which is a two year program of study, which follows honors, which is a one year's worth of study, which follows a three year undergraduate program of study in psychology, either BA, BSc, BSc psychology, BFIL, any of those other things. So I'm going to send a credited sequence in psychology at the undergraduate level. You can progress through that long chain of qualifications to end up with an area of practice endorsement as a clinical psychologist. And just someone just wants some clarification. Can you fill up your three other courses in BA per semester with additional psychology electives? As much as possible within the constraints of what we offer each semester. Yep. So if you look at first year, for example, we have So these are the first year courses understanding mind, brain and behaviors offered first semester understanding people in context in second semester, those are both required courses. And then the wellbeing formula is an elective first year elective offered in the second semester. So the most you could do in your first year are those three courses in psychology. So there's five courses that you have to pick up elsewhere first year level. But as you go into second and third year we offer more and more courses so you can progressively fill up more of your full time environment with psychology courses. But you just have to make sure that you complete all 12 or some versions 13 courses across the three years that are required. So we're just sitting on three o'clock. I've just had an apology come through from Melissa. She was pulled away and just wants to go over again. Can you go straight from a three year degree to masters or do you have to do honors. So it turns which masters. So the master of clinical psychology, which is a requires honors, or if you're coming from another university and honors equivalent program like a graduate diploma. The master of professional psychology that we offer doesn't require honors. So you do your three year degree and then enter the master of professional psychology. So that doesn't require honors and effectively combines your fourth year study honors level plus a fifth year into a master's course and that then leads into a master's program that then leads to the ability to register as a psychologist. What you cannot do with an MPP qualification is go on to seek an area of practice endorsement. So you'd be able to register as a psychologist but you would not be able to get to a clinical psychology registration. There are other pathways to get there. But the way it functions basically is, if you want to be a psychologist that functions perfectly well for clinical psychologist prefer the master of clinical psychology. But if you don't want to do honors, go straight into the master of professional psychology. And you can hear much more about that from Christian Murray's talk on, I think it was Tuesday. Entry into both the master of professional psychology and master of clinical psychology is competitive. It's very competitive. It's a combination of your performance at honors for the master of clinical psychology or your undergrad sequence in psychology for the master of professional psychology, plus letters of reference. Interviews or what are called station assessments, which takes a day and you have little work sessions that you perform that and that performance. So that's all part of the assessment process to get a place in the master of clinical psychology program. And again, that's too much of an answer for more than you expected. That's great. We got through all of the questions just in time for it to be three o'clock. Okay, well, thank you very much everybody for your interest in psychology at the ANU. Hope I have clarified more than confused. I would encourage you to pursue some of those web links in the talk but also come to some of the other talks during open week this coming week. And I wish everybody all the very best for the students in year 12. Good luck with your exams. And yeah, good luck setting on what sort of degrees you want to study from here. I mean, pod to find something that suits and fits because three years of long time in your life to study something and you better make sure you're interested in it. Otherwise, it's hard to get to the end. And thank you very much, Kelly, for moderating so long. No trouble. Thank you. Okay. Bye bye.