 Hi there and welcome to Orca Media. I'm here today with Shapp Smith, who is the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and he is running for Lieutenant Governor of the State of Vermont in the August 9th primary. Shapp, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate your time. It's great to be here, Chris. Thanks. So tell our viewers a little about how you got started in Vermont politics. Well, I mean, I grew up in Vermont. I grew up in the Umoa County area. My mom was in Elmora. My dad was in Wolkett. And my mom and my stepdad were very involved in town politics. My stepdad was the town clerk in Elmora. My mom was the tax collector and the constable. Don't mess with Shapp's mom. Yeah, you don't mess. Thankfully, she doesn't have the same last name. So when I ran the first time, people didn't know that I was the son of the tax collector. And so I moved back to Elmora County in 1999 when my wife and I decided that we wanted to start a family. And in 2002, there were open seats. And so I had this history of family involvement and I decided to throw my hat in the ring and I just knocked on a ton of doors and ended up winning by 42 votes the first time that I ran. Wow. Yeah. And so tell us a little about your family. Yeah. You talked a little about your mom and dad, but tell us about your wife and your kids. Yeah. I mean, so my wife grew up in both Montpelier and then up in Elmora County. And she graduated from Stowe High School. I graduated from PA in Morseville. And then we both went our separate ways. We didn't meet until after, but I ended up going to UVM and she did. And then when we moved back, we moved back because my wife is a family practice doctor. She had finished her residency and she works for a fairly qualified health clinic in La Moyle County at their Stowe office. And so we live in Morseville. We have two young kids 14 and 11. My son, Eli, who's 14, is going to high school this year with all the attendant worries that that brings. Congratulations for condolences. Yeah. And my daughter is going into sixth grade. So we're really lucky. We've, you know, we have a lot of family around. My siblings live in the area. Cousins. I mean, it just, it's really, really neat to be able to spend so much time with family. Yeah. So you spent a reminder of yours. How many years in the House of Representatives now? Yeah, I have been in the House for 14 years. I was elected in 2002, served six years, two years on the Fish, Wildlife and Water Resources Committee and then four on the Ways and Means Committee. And then in 2008, I decided that I would run for Speaker and I was elected in 2009 and have been Speaker of the House for the last eight years. So what's the difference between being a rank and file House member working on a committee with your peers and being Speaker of the House? I mean, it's a different dynamic, right? So tell me more about how that transition works and so what's the difference between just being a voting member representing a community and then perhaps sort of almost representing not only a caucus, but also being the leader of that body state government? It is a staggering difference. As a member of the body, an individual member of the body who sits on the committee, you're more focused on just what that committee is doing and you are more focused probably as an individual representative for your district. When you step into the Speaker's role, you are really representing the body as a whole and to a large degree the interests of the people of the state of Vermont as a whole. You are technically the highest ranking official of your party within the body, but your role really is to try to knit the members of the body together to move things forward. And so you have to be an expert in all of the areas that the House is dealing with. With the 14 committees, you're constantly being briefed on what's going on in those committees and you have to sort of sort of sort through the issues and figure out how to move them forward. So it's really about figuring out how to work with people, how to prioritize issues, how to work with the governor, work with the Senate. It's been a phenomenal, phenomenal job. I've loved every minute of it. Well, I've loved the job. And is that what attracted you to the Lieutenant Governor's race? Yeah. So the Lieutenant Governor is in some way is different than the Speaker in that you are not solely responsible for appointing committees. And you're less of the leader of the body because the majority leader, President Pro Tem, tends to be the person who's driving things. But what I like about the Lieutenant Governor's position is I think that it gives you an opportunity to pull people together on issues of real importance for the state, highlight them and try to move those issues forward. Issues like childhood poverty, issues like health care, downtown redevelopment. I mean, all of the things that I think we really need to address as a state. Well, so it's an interesting tension because on the one hand, you're trying to forge consensus on some of these issues. On the other hand, you have something of a bully pulpit as Lieutenant Governor, a platform, if you will, to talk to ordinary Vermonters and hear their concerns. But you also have to work with the members within the Senate body. It's true. I mean, you really do need to figure out a way to deal with individual senators and make them feel like you're listening to them. And I think one of the things that I've really developed, and I think I had it before I became Speaker, is figuring out how to actively listen to people and understand where places are that they can reach some common ground. And I think many of the senators saw that in me as a Speaker of the House. And, you know, in March and April, many of them came to me and asked me if I would think about running for the Lieutenant Governor's spot as somebody who they had seen had the ability to forge consensus among the members of the body. So talk to me a little bit about your tenure as Speaker. What are some of the, what are some of the signature pieces of legislation or the accomplishments that you felt you were able to deliver on behalf of Vermonters during your time as Speaker? Yeah. I mean, there are a lot. Over eight years, we have done just a tremendous amount of work. In my first year as Speaker, I think we changed the tide in the national debate on marriage equality. Many people forget that in 2008 when California overwhelmingly elected President Obama, they also passed a law saying you could not have equal civil marriage rights. This was a ballot initiative. It was a ballot initiative. And there were other states that were doing the same thing. We were moving in the wrong direction. And Vermont had been a leader in 2000 on civil unions. And in 2009, we stepped up to the plate and said, we're going to be a leader again. And without a court order, we're going to move forward with marriage equality legislation. And I was a new Speaker in the national spotlight. And we moved forward and we knew we had the votes to pass marriage equality. And then all of a sudden Governor Douglas announces that he's going to veto it. Now, up until that time, there had been six successful veto overrides in the history of the state of Vermont. And so it just shows how difficult it is to do. Well, I led the effort in the House, along with my colleagues like Floyd Nees and Lucy Larish, who are in the part of the leadership team, but also working with minority leader Patty Comline and members of the Progressive Party and Independence to pull together a coalition of 100 votes so that we could override that vote and that veto. And that still stands out as one of the proudest moments of my life when I read that vote and realized that we were making an impact on everyday Vermonters' lives and showing the way. And I believe that that did lead to 2015 when the U.S. Supreme Court said marriage equality is the law of the land. So that's one thing in particular. There are other issues that we should talk about. Well, first of all, I want to thank you for that personally. Yeah. As you know, my father was a gay man. My mother was a lesbian. And she finally, just in the last two or three years, was able to marry her spouse of 30-plus years in the state of Maine. And it was because Vermont knocked over the first domino, both on civil unions and ultimately on marriage equality, that that was able to happen. And now they have that security, the legal security of a recognized union, so that they can have transfer property. They have security in terms of their rights around healthcare. All of her benefits when she was working as an employee that extended to her spouse. All of that, which is so important, which, frankly, the heterosexual community took for granted as a right of marriage, is now extended to the LGBT community. And thank you. Well, you're welcome. And I had friends and family who were directly impacted by the legislation. And it really was a no-brainer. And with regard to Maine, I remember in 2009, when I was first speaker, I went to a training program for speakers, and I ran into then-speaker, Hannah Pingree. And we talked about it. We were talking about the fact that we were going to pass marriage equality. And we were talking with a Democratic colleague from one of the southern states about marriage equality. And he personally supported it, but he just couldn't understand how any state could actually move forward with it. And his state now has it. So true. So true. Yeah. So what are some of the other accomplishments from your time in the House? And let's talk about your campaign and what your vision is for the future under Rolls-Royce Lieutenant Governor. But one or two other quick things that people might not know about you that you feel like you spent time and galvanized the House around. So one of them passed just this year, and that's paid sick leave. I mean, a lot of people didn't realize that 60,000 Vermonters were without paid sick leave. 60,000 working Vermonters had to make decisions about whether they were going to stay home with their sick kid, or whether they were going to leave that kid home and go make money. And majority minimum wage workers and women. Right, exactly. And, you know, three or four years ago, I was out there as the only leader of the legislative bodies who was saying, we have to move this issue forward. This is an issue that's important to working Vermonters. And I remember being at a Vermont Chamber of Commerce lunch and saying, I've supported the legislation and I believe that we should do it. And the cricket. Did you get a standing ovation? Did not get a standing ovation. And my colleagues who said, no, we can't do it. We're warmly received. So we put together a strategy working with the advocates, working with my fellow legislators to make sure that that caught got across the line. And frankly, that's one of my proudest moments as well, because made a real difference in lives of working Vermonters. And we wouldn't have gotten that across the line if that bill hadn't had strong leadership support from me and people like Helen had and people like Sarah Copeland Hansis, who was the majority leader and who had a small business of her own help forge a compromise on that. So that to me is a signal that the legislature gets it gets the struggles that a lot of working Vermonters are having and is willing to do things to make their lives better. Well, I want to remind viewers of one other that might seem like a footnote, but critically important. This was at the height of the recession. Yeah. And the unemployment insurance trust fund was really running in the red because so many people were out of work and looking for work because layoffs were just taking place all over the state. And so at a time when people needed those benefits the most and were actually eligible for those benefits, there was a discussion taking place in the state. I believe this was under Jim Douglas's administration, but there was a lot of talk about either cutting those benefits or maybe even taxing workers. I know there's at least one proposal to tax workers to have them pay for their unemployment benefits. Totally the wrong direction and at a time when people could least afford to incur that kind of expense. So I know that you fought hard against that. And then President Pro Tem Shumlin really fought back against that. And you were able to not only design a plan to fix the unemployment fund, but to make sure the benefits weren't cut. And that was critically important at that time. And I think that Vermonters should know that because I think when it comes to working Vermonters, you know that's a place where you've had several examples like paid sick days, but the unemployment fight was a big one at the time. Well, it's not only that. I mean and that was critically important. I remember when I was growing up there were times where my folks didn't have a job and unemployment insurance was critically important to them. And I brought that to that discussion and it was very frustrating for me to hear people talk about cutting those benefits without really having any understanding of what that might mean to a working family. It was the same thing when the idea of cutting the earned income tax credit was proposed. We asked people to go out and work and try to make a living. We have a program called the earned income tax credit that tries to make it worth their while to do it. What the heck are we thinking about cutting something like that and making it less advantageous for particularly single moms to go out into the workforce and try to get ahead? It just was nuts and when that was proposed I said absolutely not we're not going to do that. Yeah well I appreciate it. It's really it seems like you're trying to sort of create conditions so that you can make work pay for Vermonters and like you said make it worth their while. So the other one again just this year you were instrumental in passage of a bill that would allow Vermonters to get back on the road safely legally and affordably. I remember TJ Donovan who's running for attorney general the state's attorney up in Chittenden County and he launched this sort of pilot program to try to give people a fine that they could afford if they've been locked out of a system that didn't recognize their inability to pay their traffic tickets. This is just speeding tickets not DUIs or anything like that. Yeah and when he launched that program nobody really knew what was going to happen and I remember going up to Burlington that morning to the courthouse and the line was a mile long around the whole city block. Some people had showed up overnight. There was one guy that had come from West Virginia because the transportation systems now all talk to each other so if you're locked out of your license in Vermont you're not going to be able to get your license in West Virginia until you make good on these tickets. Right. So it really shows how it goes to people's ability to earn a living to be able to drive and take care of their kids get them to childcare or to school or what have you and in a rural state if you don't have a license your ability to participate in your community is very limited. So I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit. You know I remember when TJ moved that forward and I think you think you're right none of us sort of had any understanding about how successful it would be but when it came to fruition and we saw what a difference it made in people's lives and gave them yet again opportunities to get their license back make sure they could go to work. I think we realized hey this is a no-brainer. It turned out that it wasn't as easy as a no-brainer. I mean it took a little while to go forward but you know Maxine Grad who's the chair of the Judiciary Committee in the House and Willem Jewett the vice chair worked really really hard to make sure with you and others to make sure that that got across the line and it's going to make a difference yet again in people's lives. Here's the thing we want to make sure that people have opportunities to make a better life for themselves. You know we rightly want people to work hard and we want people to do the right thing but we've got to make sure that we've given them the conditions to do that and it's not only making sure that they can get to work or that they have good child care but it's also making sure that they get paid a livable wage. So those are you know that's what we've been fighting for in the House. So what do you want to fight for as lieutenant governor? Yeah so there are three things that I'm really focused on. You know one is childhood poverty. Anybody who's got kids in the schools sees the impact of childhood poverty and the lack of early childhood education on young Vermonters and I really worry about losing a generation of Vermonters and I grew up in LaMoyale County and you know things weren't always easy for people but it does seem like things are worse particularly for people who are at the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder. So you know we know that early education makes a huge difference and let's grow kids and organization here in Vermont is working with business community and others to come up with some ideas around how we can create even better, affordable and quality child care for kids as soon you know for zero it was basically zero to three and I think that would make a huge difference in childhood poverty and it's got to be done in conjunction with raising the minimum wage. We need to look at family leave but really giving kids the opportunities to grow their brain right out of the you know right out of the box. So early childhood are you supporting the a phase in of the $15 minimum wage? Yeah I am. I think that it makes sense. I do think that you know like we have phased in the increase to 10-10 I think that we can phase it in to $15 and I think that it's going to make sense. You are lifting all boats by doing that and so you know I'll work with the next Senate and the next House next governor to make sure that that happens. So minimum wage early childhood what's another key issue? So you know I think one of the keys to our economic vitality is vital regional centers investments in our downtown. You look at a community like Barrie that has put money into its downtown and they were struggling and I think that they're making progress to increase the economic vitality there. Winooski you go down to Brattleboro. We need as a state to make sure that we have those vital downtowns because they're attractive to young people and old people alike. People want to live in communities where they can work, live and play and that's I think the state needs to focus even more there and in particular work on creating not only affordable housing but workforce housing in those areas so that people have opportunities to live downtown. The third thing is and this really comes out of I've always been committed to health care reform. We've had a bunch of bumps in the road but you know experience that we had as a family over the last 12 months reinforced how much we need to work on health care. Many people know my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer she had phenomenal care but if you tried to understand what we owed because we had a high deductible plan and where we were supposed to pay it it was impossible and it turned out that we had thought we were going to owe $2,000 and we ended up owing $6,000 and had to do that out of pocket. Well for a lot of families that would be the difference between solvency and bankruptcy and there are a lot of approaches that we could do to deal with that. One of them is primary care, universal primary care. The other idea builds on a successful program that we've had in the state for years called Dr. Dinosaur. Dr. Dinosaur provides health care coverage for many of Vermont's children. Why don't we provide it to all Vermont's kids 26 and under? And so that actually tracks with the Affordable Care Act which allowed children to stay on their parents plan until they were 26. So this isn't some sort of crazy new idea that's saying we're gonna you know extend childhood to some degree it's saying you know if you're through college essentially or for people who are working their way through college maybe they'll still be able to get this Dr. Dinosaur program. It mirrors part of what the Affordable Care Act does. It builds on a program that we've already had implemented. It gives us a chance to show Vermonters that we can manage a health care system and it has a couple things that I think are attractive. One for parents now who have high deductible plans and they're taking their kids to the doctor you know what they're having to make decisions about whether the kids gonna get an X-ray or an MRI based on whether they can afford it. Well we shouldn't put parents in that kind of position and the other thing is hey for kids that are 18 to 26 wouldn't it be a cool recruiting tool to say you don't have to worry about your health care coverage if you live here in Vermont and that would be true for college students often have to have health care coverage to actually enroll in college. So it could be something to retain young people or encourage young people to relocate here. Yeah and that's why you know I got the endorsement of Howard Dean he was very impressed that I had pushed for a study on this it's gonna the report's gonna come back in sometime in November and that's why I think it's a way that we can move past the health care exchange and show people that we can do it right. Tell us something we about five minutes before we're gonna wrap up. Yeah give us one thing you've learned or something that stood out as you've campaigned and met Vermonters from all corners of the state what's the one thing that kind of jumps out at you as you talk to people about your plan. Yeah but also the thing that you're hearing the most. So what I hear is that Vermonters are still inventive and resourceful and there's a lot of really cool stuff that's happening around the state. There are a lot of neat new businesses people coming together to build community and I just think that the Vermont spirit is alive and well and we hear a lot of Vermont is bad for this or Vermont is bad for that. What I think is heartening is that I still see a lot of people who are optimistic that if they get involved they can change things and that I think is the Vermont way. There are real challenges you know you hear about opiates I hear about affordable housing in every part of the state and not just for those who are on the lowest end of the political ladder but you know middle-class folks are really struggling to find housing that's affordable. Give us one little insight into the the soul of the man if you will give us a mentor or inspiring figure from history either somebody you knew somebody in your life that's made a difference or somebody you turn to or look to for advice or somebody that just sort of motivates you and inspires you. Yeah you know I really look throughout my tenure as speaker I looked to Mike Gobiowski as someone who I would talk to I would have lunch I would have breakfast with him every Friday morning during the session and the reason that I look to him is he always reminded me of the fact that you needed to be thinking about the person who was going to work with the lunch lunch pail and that you just needed to remember the working folks who you were representing and he he never forgot that as speaker or as a representative and he was very he is a very wise man and I've always thought of him as a real mentor towards me and it's hard to pick one out because you know I always gay Simington was such a good mentor to me Rick Hubey who's a Republican from London Dairy who we lost too early would give me advice sometimes many times advice I didn't want to take but but you know and and I looked at historical figures like Teddy Roosevelt who got us through an incredible transition time when the economy was changing so there are a lot of people that I looked to. Shaps Smith thank you so much for your time today good luck thank you campaign we have a few days left before the August 9 2016 primary Shaps Smith running for Lieutenant Governor and I know you'll be out meeting people in Montpelier and Washington County and across the rest of the state in the remaining days of this campaign we wish you luck thank you very much thanks