 Thank you all for coming, I really appreciate having you here, I'm excited to be able to share this passion that I have with you. My name is Deb Denzer, I am the owner of Terrace Old Gardens, I am a very small microgreen producer in Sheboygan. I live in Sheboygan Falls, my greenhouse space that I rent is in Sheboygan Falls, so I'm a local producer. I have a dream of expanding the business, not sure if that dream will come true, but that's my dream as kind of out there. I started growing microgreens in 2011 and I've been growing them ever since. I started growing them in my kitchen and it got to be a little stressful because I was getting more orders than space I had. I live in a very small house, I grew them on, you know those little kind of cheap greenhouse racks you can buy at like Home Depot. I had three of those in my kitchen, which took up a whole corner and my kitchen is also my dining room, so it was pretty crowded in my kitchen. And I had cats, so I was worried about contamination and fur and just the whole thing got a little stressful for me. A friend of mine purchased a piece of property that had a small greenhouse space on it. The greenhouse is 20 feet by 50 feet, so it's not huge but it's enough room for me now. And asked me if I was still interested in moving into that kind of space and I said absolutely, I would love to be able to do that. So I've been there for five years now. And my business has expanded, it's all by word of mouth. I haven't gone out really and done some hardcore knocking on doors, trying to sell the product that I grow. I've had lots of trials and tribulations and lots of successes and so there's this ever-evolving learning curve for me. I don't use any artificial lightning, I rely solely on the sunlight that's coming through the greenhouse. I supplement heat in the winter time and in the summer it gets pretty beastly hot in there. So I do put up some shade cloths and all of these things that happen change the ecosystem, the environment inside the greenhouse just enough that I have to tweak my growing practices from one season to the next. So there's always this evolving of seeding times and harvest times and how much water and how little water and humidity levels and all of the things that come into play with taking care of living things. So with that I've gained a whole lot of experience plus my full-time job is growing plants also. I work for Kohler Company in the landscape department and I'm part of the crew that plants designs, plants maintains all of the gardens and annual plants and perennials that you see on the campus. So I have this pretty rich deep understanding of that system, those processes and it's all kind of culminated into who I am today and my passion. So let's dive into microgreens. It was a request somebody made of me to grow microgreens way back in 2011. Somebody knew somebody who wanted sunflower microgreens and they asked me if I could grow them and I'm like, I grow a lot of other things, why not sunflower microgreens? I should be able to do that. So I said, sure, I'll give it a shot and see what happens. So that's where it all started, was growing sunflower microgreens. I bought some deep, so this is what's called a 10-20 flat. It's 10 inches by 20 inches and there's shallow which this is a shallow and deep flats. I bought five deep flats. That's what I started with. Filled them with soil, got black oil sunflower seed, did a little bit of research, found black oil sunflower seed was the one that most microgreen producers were growing. Seeded the flats, started growing the sunflowers, then they started damping off and this was all in my kitchen. I didn't know for sure what was going on. And damping off is a whole process of airflow. It's actually a mold that develops on the surface of the soil that is naturally occurring in our environment all the time everywhere. And it attacks the very stem of the plants right at the soil surface level. And then the plants are standing upright and the next day they'll just be laying down because the stems become weak and they can't take up any nutrients and water any longer and they die. So I was having those issues and so I seeded more flats to compensate for what I was losing. So that was a whole trial and error for a few years. And then when I went into the greenhouse, I was still having some of those issues but I had worked through a lot of them. And it's really at the end of the day, it amounts to airflow and the greater your airflow through the crops, the better off you are and the less chance you have of that mold developing. Just something to think about. So that damping off issue occurs because if you look at this, these are carrot microgreens. This crop is probably one week after I would normally harvest it. But it looked so nice I thought I would bring it to share it with you today. And you can see that the canopy, which is the very top of the plants, is really, really dense. So if you get into the center of this, that means your humidity levels are going to be higher because the plants are breathing, they're doing their thing. And moisture content is going to be higher and that's where those mold spores really like it. They're really happy then in those situations. Come on in. So it's just part of the growing process and it doesn't matter if they're microgreens or other plants that have these same issues. I get them in the crops we grow in color. I treat them in different ways, but it's just, again, just something to be aware of. Would you like some seeds and soil? Welcome. So I wound up deciding, I did a lot of research. I thought, well, if I can grow microgreens, I can also grow sprouts. And I decided to do some research on the difference between microgreens and sprouts and why sprouts were so difficult and challenging to find in the stores. And I landed on some really interesting information that I hadn't ever really considered before. So there are always a lot of recalls on sprouts and we can look at alfalfa sprouts in general. And when you grow sprouts, you're putting the seeds in a really tightly confined space that has really low, if no air flow at all. You're soaking those seeds. You drain the water away. You wash them three times a day. They're constantly, constantly wet. Seed coats have microscopic pores on them. Those microscopic pores allow for the water to seep in to the seed coat and allow for the processes of germination to start. Germination is when the plants just start beginning to grow. And that's a chemical reaction. The same bacteria that cause E. coli and salmonella also reside on these seed coats. Again, common, not uncommon, just happens everywhere. All of this stuff's in our environment. When you're sprouting, when you're growing those sprouts, you are setting up the perfect conditions for those bacteria to explode. For that population to go, Yay, I found a great home and I'm going to grow as many of us as I can. That's where that comes from. And in order to eliminate that possibility of contamination, there's chemical processes that come into play to reduce that contamination. So, thought about it. It's regulated system, regulated business because of the contamination problems. And I decided, not going to do that. Looked at microgreens. Totally different growing process. You're growing on the surface of soil, despite the fact that you're watering them regularly. Oh, just to backtrack a little bit. Also, seeds produce heat when they're germinating. It would be amazing if you took the temperature, the internal temperature of a jar of sprouts, that temperature is going to be higher than the outside air temperature. Because they seeds produce heat when they're germinating. It's an active heat producing chemical process. So, that is the other part of the contamination problem. You don't have that situation happening when you're growing microgreens. There's a lot of airflow. The seeds aren't packed together in a tightly enclosed space. So, those bacteria cannot develop on the surface of the plants. And you're also most often not eating the seed coats when you're harvesting them. Which is another benefit. So, that was why I got into microgreens. I thought, okay, I can do microgreens. Did a little bit more research. The biggest producers are on the east coast and the west coast. Couldn't find any microgreens here in the Midwest. I also have this thing about supply chains in my head. And I thought, if I could bring some of that here, bring the cost down because I'm not shipping it from New York or California. When you look at the prices of those products coming from those two places, they go up three, four, five times as high as what I'm able to sell them for here. And I thought, I can kind of help balance that out and bring some of those costs down a little bit too. And then the third reason was that they're really, really, really highly nutritious. I've done some research on the nutritional value of microgreens. Again, I'm a skeptic a little bit, just enough to kind of question what I read sometimes. And studies that I've looked at and read about, which are bona fide studies, indicate that microgreens have about between 25 to 50% higher nutritional value than their adult counterparts. And the reasoning, the theory about that is because the nutrient loads are packed in such tiny plants. That's where my skepticism comes in, because there's not a lot of studies. There are studies that are indicating that trend. So you get highly nutritious food in a small package. Flavors are really intense. You don't have the risk of contamination that you would have with sprouts. You have the same texture that you would get with sprouts. And I think that the flavors and the numbers of seeds that you can grow as a microgreen are much greater than sprouts. I can grow carrots, beets, kale, cabbage, sunflowers, fennel. I have to pea shoots. I have to start thinking arugula. I've experimented with beans. I've experimented with nasturtium. And the list kind of, it's huge. It's enormous. Mustards, oh my god, mustards are a whole other branch of microgreens that just have really interesting flavor profiles. And again, the flavors and the aromas are really intense. It's a lot more intense than I think the adult-sized plants. When my dad comes and helps me harvest, I harvest every Friday. He comes and helps me harvest, and I'll give him the flats to package and the small packages that I sell them in. And he'll be cutting that arugula and the smell just permeates the entire greenhouse space. So it's really, it's interesting. It's been an interesting journey that I've taken doing this microgreen stuff. Does anyone have any questions yet? Yes. So how do you harvest that, and is it, I get the impression that you cut it, like you literally cut it? Yeah, that's a great question. So she's asking me how I harvest this flat. So I will, I put, I use gloves, and then I have scissors that are specific that I only use on my microgreens. And I'll take, I don't know if, can everybody see this up here? I don't have scissors with me, so I'm going to just kind of demonstrate. I'll take the flat, and I'll grab a handful like this, and I literally just cut at the base of the stem. Here, I'll do this. I'm going to make a muddy mess on the floor. If I take this around, and you guys can kind of see this, I cut right at the base of the stem there. I'm cutting right here. Thank you. So I'm cutting right here. At the right here. Right at the base of the stem. Just above the soil level. So I'm cutting right here. I'm cutting right here. Just above the soil level. What do you use this? Yep, you can eat it raw. You don't have to cook it. I've never heard of that before. Here, just take that. Do you want to try it? I can share this too. So I'm cutting right at the base of the stem. Right where it starts to stop white. Yep, yep. Perfect. So I'm cutting right here at the base of the stem. Did you want to try some? Then the flat is done right? Yep, then the flat's right. So I have another question back here about the flat being done, and it won't regrow. That is correct. You can get, with pea shoots, you can get a second flush of peas, but it's never, ever, ever the same amount. It's maybe half or a third of what you would normally get with that first flush. Does anyone else want to try these? And what do you do then if you cannot regrow and what do you do with these? I compost the flats. Thank you. Yep. What is this that you have? Carrot. I was talking to one of my customers that came to the farmers market today because I met the farmers market. And he was talking to me about, well, carrot tops are listed as poisonous. If you look at them online, and that's not true, they're not at all. They sell them as microgreens, and I've been eating them. Is that enough, or do you want some? I haven't answered that. That's another great question. I will try. Do you want, is that enough? I'm sorry, I'm making muddy messes everywhere. Don't worry, you're good. So you said some things will regenerate, but certain things like pea shoots will. Pea shoots will, these won't. Once you cut them, they're done. You're taking the top of the plant off, and the other part that comes into play too is, so if this is really a good sample, maybe this is better. That's good. So this is the density of the roots. Again, I'm going to make a muddy mess everywhere I go. This is the density of the roots. And that's how long? This is three weeks. Yeah, this is three weeks. So that's the density of the roots. This is the density of the roots. Mmm, yummy. That's the density of the roots. And I'm going to try to, what was your question? Can you reuse the soil? Thank you. Thanks for reminding me. I get distracted and sidetracked pretty easy. So there is a question in the back about reusing the soil. I don't reuse the soil. I use new soil every time I seed, so I'll put new soil in. And I don't do that because a lot of times with the density of the roots and the frequency of watering, you wind up getting what's called root rot, and it's over-watering of the roots at some point, and then you're carrying that disease into your new crop. So I just go with new soil right away. Not to say that this isn't compostable because it certainly is. And soil mixes that I use, I use what's, it's really not soil. It's called a soilless mixture, which is peat moss, shredded bark, perlite. That's pretty much all that's in the soilless mixture. It's not soil you get out of the earth, necessarily. So it's more like seedlings, or is it exclusive from the soil? It's for seedlings. And I'm not even using the seeding mixes. I'm using just what, a straight potting mix. That's just a soilless mixture. And I look at, so here's another interesting thing. One of the soilless mixtures I use is called Pro-Mix. I was thinking pro-green. It's Pro-Mix. And they have an organic, one cubic foot bag, and they have just Pro-Mix 2.8 cubic foot bags. And if you look at the ingredients, they're exactly the same. They're exactly the same. The ratios might be a little different. The ingredients are exactly the same. Perlite is a volcanic rock. That's very lightweight and porous. Peat moss is peat moss. And then shredded bark is shredded bark. All of which are natural ingredients. I don't think any of them have been treated with anything. So I can't imagine. I think it's just that process of looking at organic standards and paying for that. Label to have that stamped on whatever it is that you're selling versus not doing it. And I just have often questioned that a little bit. Why pay more just because it's organic when the ingredients are distinct? Yes, exactly. I agree with you 100%. And I made a conscientious decision not to pay for that organic label, but I grow everything organically. I don't use any chemicals. I don't need to use fertilizers because I'm not taking these beyond this stage. So fertilizer is not necessary that you can just eliminate off the bat. There's natural ways of controlling diseases and pests, thrips and that kind of thing. Again, this crop is such a short-term crop. I really don't have problems with any of those things. When I'm looking at long-term crops, that's a whole different story and a whole different ball game and a whole different animal to try to manage and maintain. So it's really nice to be able to have something like this growing. So... Is there something that you would water more often than, say, a carrot plant? Yes. So the question is this something that you would water more often than another plant, than a carrot plant? And I say yes because when I showed you that root structure, it's taking up a lot of moisture and each one of your houses is going to have a different environment than mine, than the environment that I grow in. I find on hotter, sunnier days the plants are breathing, respiring, they're also rating more. Thank you. Thank you. Transpiring more. All of the words. And because of that transpiration process, they tend to dry out faster. They're losing a lot more moisture to the atmosphere. So I need to make sure I water more and I go by the weight of my flats. I don't go by reaching in and touching them. I can pick up a flat and say, that's wet enough, it'll make it through the day. And I go into check watering every single day. I grow 30, between 34 and 38 flats a week. So it's gotten up there. I didn't realize, like, I look at it and it's like, oh, that's just a bunch of little things and it's really a lot more than I thought. So my environment is going to be different than your environment. My environment is going to have different outcomes than your environment will. And I always tell people all the time, gardening is nothing more than a grand experiment anyway because everybody has a different ecosystem and a different something happening than what I have. So I think it's really important in this process and this journey of growing microgreens to be patient with yourself. If you have some something happen that's not working right, try to figure out what needs to maybe change to have more success down the road. So, words of advice. In the kits that I gave you today, you can choose to either plant them here today or take that stuff home with you. That will be totally up to you. I gave you sunflower seeds and radish. The seed packets that you have are enough for one container. Yep, yes. It may seem like a lot of seeds, but I will tell you that you want that density because that's going to give you something that looks closer to this. I'll go over all of that. You had a question? I buy my seeds from a couple of different vendors. It's taken me a while to figure out where my best seed prices and seed quality is going to come from. So I have kind of narrowed it down to just two or three vendors. Johnny seeds are really expensive, just so you know. They're more expensive than any of the other vendors. I use a place called True Leaf Market, which I always Google it as Mountain Valley Seeds, but it comes up under True Leaf Market. And then the other one is Todd's Seeds. They're out of Michigan. Those are the three places that I get my seeds from. And they offer organic or not organic seeds. I buy organic seeds. I've discovered that with the black oil sunflower seeds, you can use black oil bird seed and get the same results. I would not recommend KT for whatever reason, their seeds. So you have to be really careful. One of the things that I noticed over time and just kind of playing with that whole thing, when you buy the black oil sunflower seeds from like True Leaf Market, it's like $50 for like five pounds of seeds, which is a huge amount of money, when you can buy bird seed for $20. So cost kind of comes into play a little bit. When I was getting KT seeds, I was getting really poor germination and a lot of mold development on my flats. And then when that happens, I just throw them away. I don't even harvest them, they just go away. So and I discovered, I noticed, I started comparing, like when you can see in the bags, I started comparing the look of the seeds and KT seeds had mold on them. And I was like, what the heck? Where is that coming from? So I decided I'm done with that. That's not going to buy them anymore. And it was just an interesting observation. It took me some time to think that through. And then I was like, well, so what does that do to birds? And I was like this whole rabbit hole that I went down, that I didn't need to, but that's what I do. So that's the seed market. I keep playing with the idea of being able to sell seeds here. I haven't dove into that quite yet. It's becoming more of a possibility for me at this point in time. I've been looking more intimately into what that's going to require on a state level and as a business than buying, than just giving you that information. I just haven't. Requires me to pay a fee. And then I have to have labeling. And I don't know what the labeling, if I can use the labeling from the wholesale places or not. I haven't figured that out yet. So there's really specific requirements. And until I flesh all of that out, you guys can buy seeds from these other places. I have been asked in the past about seeds that you, like the packages of seeds you buy for your vegetable gardens, there's never enough seeds in there to do what you need to do with this. Just to be aware, I would say for this, it gets hard to give you a specific amount of seeds like two tablespoons or an ounce because seed weights, depending on what crops you're growing, are going to be very different. Radish seeds are much larger than arugula seeds. And radish seeds are much larger than kale or cabbage or mustard seeds. And mustard seeds are larger than arugula seeds. So there's this whole, it just gets tricky. Just know that you're almost covering the surface of the soil with the seeds. That would be my best advice. And that you have enough soil for both of the crops, both the sunflowers and the radish. So choose to grow one first, get rid of the soil, compost it, and then choose to grow the second one. And it should fill those trays both times. And you're not packing the soil in there, you're just filling it, sprinkling the seeds on top, water it in, and watch it grow. And just keep the seeds moist. You're going to need to mist them or water them every day until they start germinating. You'll see that germination process happen. So it's really, it's really simple, it's really easy. The seeds I've given you are probably the ones you'll be the most successful with because they're the easiest ones to grow. I was thinking about it and wanting to make sure that you have some success in this process because otherwise you're not going to want to do it if you're not successful at growing them. And then I said after we plant them or put this near a window? You could put it near a window. They don't require a whole lot of light. Again, you're just growing them to what's called the cataliden stage. So the process is going to be you fill this container with soil, just loosely fill it with soil, sprinkle your seeds over the top of the soil so it's covering the surface of the soil and then water it in. And every day you want those seeds to be watered. That's when they're going to germinate the best. If the seeds, you can spray it, you can mist it with like a mist bottle, like a spray bottle, that works as well. But those seeds need to be wet. If they dry out, you lose germination rates. It drops pretty significantly. I've learned that because part of my job is to do snow removal so I don't always get to my greenhouse every morning. If it gets sunny out and I haven't watered in the morning, I've had flats dry out and there's like a third of my germination rate falls off the chart. So I lose product by not watering them every day. And then you'll see roots come and you'll see what are called root hairs so they're really, really fine white hairs on the roots. It's those root hairs that are taking up molecules of water and molecules of nutrients to feed the plants. You let them grow until they get just a little bit past what's called the cotyledon stage for most of the crops, for the radish and the sunflowers for sure. The cotyledons are the very first leaves that you see on the plants. They're not true leaves, they're cotyledons. The true leaves are the very next set of leaves you'll see right in the center of those baby plants. And at that point, that's when you can harvest them. You can even grow them a little bit past just the cotyledon stage, see those true leaves coming out. But it's at that right about that stage that you want to harvest these plants. They can be eaten raw, you don't have to cook them. They're great additions for salads and garnishes on your soups to add flavor on your soup, put them in sandwiches. Some have, they all have different textures. Some people like the textures of some of them and others don't like the textures of some of them. And everyone is going to have a different flavor profile. So mustards tend to be spicy and a little bit, I don't know if I can describe the flavor. Not bitter, but earthy maybe is a good way to describe it. Arugula is very nutty, spicy and pungent. Sunflowers are kind of nutty and sweet. Peas taste just like peas. Carrots taste just like carrots. Beets taste just like beets. So a lot of those flavor profiles come out in the flavors of the natural foods that you would eat. Broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, any of those brassicas are mild. They're not spicy and they all taste the same. That flavor profile doesn't change. It's very green and just kind of sweet. Sweet green is about the best way I can describe it. A little bit of kale type of overtone, a flavor, but those all are kind of the same. And microbeads are strictly vegetables. There's no fruits. No, it's strictly a vegetable crop that you would grow as an addition to your things. Anyone have any questions? Anything I didn't answer yet? Any other thoughts? That's a great question. So the question was how long does the process take? I do this every day all the time so I don't always think about all of those things. It really varies based on temperature. Less than crop. So when I'm in the summer, my crop time for most of them is about a seven-day turnaround. I'll seed seven days later I can harvest. In the winter, it jumps up to 14 days, 12 to 14 days, so I seed, wait, and harvest. I really need to be thoughtful about my seeding times and seeding rates. Carrots, fennel, and beets, and I'm trying to think if I've missed any that are unusual. Oh, marigolds. Marigolds is another one that you can grow. That's got a really interesting flavor profile. Those are probably three to four weeks. Seeding to harvest. Summer or winter. The marigold profile, it's called Tageddies. What's the species? I'm not going to remember the species. Anyway, it's a really small flower. It's not the big one that you would normally see in your garden. The plant gets to be this tall, really tiny. Lemon gem and orange gem are the two, the only two colors that you can get. It's the variety, gem marigolds. You can grow them as a microgreen and you're growing them to the first true leaf stage, not just past the cotyledon stage to get the best flavor. It's a very citrusy, it's a pungent, citrus flavor and aroma. It's really, really interesting. I've played with it a whole lot with food, but I've eaten it and it's like I haven't quite figured out. I have a couple of chefs that enjoy having it in their dishes and I think they use it more in their desserts than they do in their... Thank you. Thank you. In their savory food plates, but it's kind of a fun one to play with. So if you want to harvest after the first true leaves emerge, how long does it go when you can no longer eat it? It's no longer edible as a microgreen. It's going to get tough and chewy. Yeah, it's not... Yeah, it's a matter of taste and texture, right? I find with the carrots, the longer I grow them, the harder and tougher and chewier they get. Yes? So once you harvest your whole tray, how do you start and how long do you start? If you're growing these at home, you'll have an advantage over me because you can harvest them as much as you need for about four or five days. You don't have to do it all at once. No, you'll have that advantage over me. I don't have that... quite that advantage. And it depends on the microgreens again. So the kale's cabbage, broccoli, arugula, mustard, maybe not so much, but those four tend to be really sensitive to moisture in the containers after I cut them. So the wetter they are, the quicker you need to eat them. It just breaks down the cells of the plants themselves quicker with the wetter they are. It's just that process. And that's about a week. The sunflowers are two to three weeks. Peashoots I've had in my fridge for four weeks and they're still okay. So it depends on the crop. It really does. It's very crop-dependent. Can I ask you a question about the composting? Yeah. So S-2 percussion, what do you compost in and then what do you use the compost for? So I have gone as far as to just take the flats and dump them in my garden just to add as a soil amendment. Just know when you do that you might wind up with some germination of seeds that didn't germinate in these flats and you might wind up with those plants in your garden. Just be aware of that. Yes. Just straight up just right in your garden. Yep. And just kind of like mix about the plants. Yes. Yep. But you might see sunflowers. You might see pea shoots. You might see kale. You might see those other things coming up. Radish. Whatever. It's pranks. It is. Yes. So I can foresee my, you know, we're at home maybe we're making a sandwich. We cut off a little bit for that sandwich maybe another day or two. We're like, okay now it's at the end of the stage so you can cut the respite off. You said something about refrigerating. So after you cut it it'll still be good for a few days. Yeah. It'll be good for a few days. As long as when you cut it those plants aren't really wet. Like you haven't just watered and then you cut it. Okay. Let them be dry when you cut them, when you harvest them. And then you can just put them in like a like a berry container or a, you know, it's just some container that you're able to hold them in your refrigerator or in your upperware container. Just something small that they'll be fine. They'll be fine that way. Yes. Have they ever used chia? Now that's what you see on TV all the time. I've tried growing chia and I've tried growing alfalfa as microgreens and they are not as easy to grow as you would think. I think that alfalfa I found just, you know, at the stage that I would want to harvest it at is really, really small and very low to the soil. So it's really hard to keep it clean when you're cutting it. And the chia seeds, they just didn't do well as a microgreen. I don't know why. Couldn't tell you what that was about because I didn't play a whole lot with those. There just didn't seem to be such a demand for those two things. Alfalfa a little bit, but not, you know, after I tried and tried a few times and it's like this is not worth my energy and effort at this moment. And then as far as who buys that from you like grocery stores, natural stores or who? I have a small group of regular clients, good side grocery, Woodlake Market, I sell there, both of those. The Paddock Club, of course, Paradigm, and then the Farmers Market. And then I have one customer who buys wheatgrass from me. So I also grow wheatgrass and he gets five flats a week. So yeah, he juices his wheatgrass. I don't like the taste of it, so for me it's not my thing, but people do it. I'm okay with that. Any other questions? Thoughts? Comments? If you have any questions I believe my email address is on that cheat, I don't know how easy it is to read. Yeah, you could look me up on Facebook, I'm on Facebook, I don't have any other social website, but you could certainly send me an email and I may not respond right away, so just be patient with me. But yeah, just send me questions and I will do my best. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thanks. The soil will sit in there just fine. That's a great question. So the slots in the bottom of your little trays are pretty big and you do want to water it so that the water comes out the first time. Out of the bottom of those slots. And if you're not wanting to do top watering you can set this in a little tray of water and just let it wick up from the bottom. So can you keep watering it that way then? Not before the seeds germinate. You need to keep those seeds wet. The top of the seeds wet. You're not covering the seeds with soil. You're not burying them. They're sitting right on the surface of the soil. So they can tend to dry out pretty quickly. Yeah, thanks. Thank you.