 I ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so as quickly and as quietly as possible. We move on to the final item of business, which is a member's business debate on motion 2932 in the name of Alasr Allen, on epilepsy and employment in Scotland. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put, but I invite members who wish to participate to press the request to speak partons, as soon as possible, and I call on Alasr Allen to open the debate for around seven minutes. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Epilepsy has, I hope, now emerged from the outright prejudice and superstition that surrounded the condition within living memory, and yet people with epilepsy continue to face barriers in employment. Epilepsy Scotland has carried out research on epilepsy and unemployment, which I know that the minister, Richard Lochhead, has already taken interest in and on which he commented during his recent participation in the cross-party group on epilepsy. I welcome that interest and look forward to hearing his comments and summing up today. People with epilepsy are very significantly less likely to be in employment than are the general population. Let me begin by mentioning a few relevant statistics. While the disability employment gap for people with disabilities in general is only slightly higher in Scotland than in the UK, the real differences lie at a local level. The gap ranges from barely 8 per cent in some communities to 50 per cent in the healing and the new year, my constituency. Rural areas appear to face particular challenges. Looking at people with epilepsy specifically, only 36.9 per cent in the UK reported being in employment compared to some 81.3 per cent of non-disabled people. That represents an employment gap of 44.4 per cent of people with epilepsy. In fact, the annual population survey for the UK shows that people with epilepsy are one of the groups that are least likely to report employment relative to all people with a disability of any kind. Epilepsy Scotland is therefore seeking to challenge and support employers to overcome continuing mistaken assumptions. In case that sounds like a lecture to employers, I should say that I have no reason to believe that employers' ideas about epilepsy are any more mistaken than those of the population at large. To lump all people with epilepsy together risks completely failing to understand that they are hugely differing needs and their own unique talents. A great proportion of people with epilepsy, for instance, have the condition either entirely or virtually entirely controlled by medication. I fall into that category myself, and they may in fact have lived completely free of seizures for many years. However, it seems that some employers continue to view people with epilepsy as a risk, at risk of accidents, with presumed risk of litigation. In fact, as the research highlights, there is no evidence at all to show that people with epilepsy present any greater risk. Perhaps the most concerning finding presented by this research is that there may be a psychological impact of this ignorance of others on some people with epilepsy themselves. In cases where people experience repeated rejection in the workhorse, they do sometimes develop a limited estimation of their own abilities. I am personally very lucky that I have had fairly understanding employers. I once had a seizure towards the end of a job interview and still somehow managed to get the job. Although looking back to another job, not in politics, I had a less positive experience. I had a seizure at work and I remember my employer complaining as I recovered that I was not compasmentous. I do not think that this is much more than a statement of the obvious while I was groggily coming to. It only later became clear to me what he meant and what he meant was something else entirely. He thought that having a seizure was presumably only one symptom of many more to come of what he misunderstood epilepsy to be, namely a psychiatric condition. I do not dismiss the possibility that I may not more generally always be compasmentous, but I hesitate to attribute the fact to any neurological cause. Public misunderstandings about epilepsy mean that some people have to contend with all the prejudices around mental illness when they do not even have a mental illness. Since I indicated that I would be bringing this debate to Parliament, I have heard from people who have encountered varying types of problems at work. One, for instance, was a man who works in a supermarket. Despite doing well on his job, which he has held for a number of years, the supermarket concerned apparently forgot that this man had a medical condition. That was despite his epilepsy having been previously and formally drawn to their attention. As a result, he failed to take his epilepsy into any account when he later made complaints about bullying. He said that new team leaders in the store were not aware that he had any disability. Examples like that show that not all employers are even aware that staff members have epilepsy, far less make any reasonable adjustments for them because of it. As a result, people with epilepsy are very often underemployed, often working in low-skilled jobs. I have concentrated on some of the problems, but I hope that members from across the chamber can also see today as a chance to outline positive ways forward. We could, for instance, agree on the need to improve the detail of the statistics available to us in measuring the problem and to try to get to the bottom of the reasons for the huge local variations. We can, above all, commit to ensuring that a wider understanding of epilepsy permeates our schools, business organisations and colleges, and we can highlight and support good practice where it exists. We should recognise as a country that we are not presently drawing to anything like the extent we could be on the talents of people with epilepsy. That is something that means not only that people with epilepsy are missing out economically and socially themselves, but that is our economy as a whole. To conclude, many organisations across Scotland, I think of neuro-hebrides in my constituency as an example, do great work in empowering people with epilepsy. I hope that the debate and the work that is being done by epilepsy Scotland will help to empower people with epilepsy in one very specific way—in workplaces across Scotland. Thank you very much indeed, Dr Allan. I now call on Stephen Kerr to be followed by Jackie Dunbar for around four minutes, Mr Kerr. Deputy Presiding Officer, thank you. I can begin by thanking Alasdair Allan for bringing this important debate to the chamber. I can actually am also in an excellent speech. Epilepsy is a condition that can affect many people in great many different ways. In many cases, it should not impact on the ability of people to work. In fact, as it states on the Epilepsy Society's website, the Equality Act aims to make sure that people with a disability are not treated unfairly compared to a person without a disability, because of their disability and without good reason. Under the Equality Act, your employer is expected to make reasonable adjustments so that you can carry on working. If you cannot continue in your role due to your epilepsy, your employer should consider if you can move to another role. It is a stark figure that Alasdair Allan mentioned in his motion that only 36.9 per cent of people with epilepsy in the UK are employed. There are many barriers to disabled people getting into employment, but a lack of understanding of the condition among employers is certainly a factor. We need to look at how people are supported and how businesses are supported to employ those with epilepsy. I urge members to take a look at the Epilepsy Action Employer Toolkit, which is a very useful set of advice for employers who are employing those with epilepsy. As reported on the Epilepsy Today website, one major barrier for people with epilepsy to get and stay in work is the lack of understanding around the condition. Epilepsy Action said, a 2016 UGov service showed that a quarter of respondents, 26 per cent, were concerned about working with someone with epilepsy. Of those two thirds, nearly two thirds, 63 per cent said it was because they did not know how to help a colleague having a seizure. People with epilepsy report being humiliated in front of colleagues, demoted, redeployed or even made redundant because of their epilepsy. The new toolkit is designed to give employers the confidence to help staff with epilepsy. It includes templates to provide support, assess risks and talk about epilepsy. It also offers descriptions of a range of different seizure types, as well as access to detailed first aid videos. That is the end of that quote. I also urge members to engage with the disability confidence scheme, which helps employers to recruit and retain people with a wide range of disabilities. I had some experience of meeting with and understanding what can be done with disability confidence—meeting with employers who have embraced that idea. I consider disability confidence to be exemplary in the field in terms of helping and supporting employers to make the most of the talents that disabled people can bring to the workplace. Employers can sometimes feel reticent about employing people with disabilities in general, but lack of conversations about disability discrimination, lack of reasonable adjustments and lack of knowledge about conditions may make it difficult for employers to feel confident, and we need to help them to feel more confident about employing people with disability in general, and epilepsy in particular. Epilepsy can affect different people in different ways, and employers and employees need to be able to have conversations about the condition to understand how best they can support each other. Those kinds of conversations may need to be supported. It is, of course, the absolute right of people not to disclose disabilities to employers, but when people want to share, it is usually because they feel comfortable with their employer and feel that it would be helpful and supportive. Creating the right kind of environment where people feel confident about discussing the help and support that they need is essential to the functioning of any positive work environment. We need to support employers and encourage the use of the disability confidence scheme, which helps employers to engage with people positively about their disabilities. The feelings that are derived from useful, productive work, the sense of self-worth and the sense of personal dependence is so important as a part of life. Employers have a duty to support their employees, and we as parliamentarians and leaders have a responsibility to support them in that. Deputy Presiding Officer, so many disabled people make an indispensable contribution to their workplaces. They are employees that are inspired and inspiring. It is true in this Parliament to lose that contribution from the workforce and for people to lose their work or have it curtailed as a result of disability would be a tragedy. I am delighted to support this motion. Thank you very much indeed, Mr Kerr. Jackie Dunbar to be followed by Rhoda Grant for around four minutes, Mr Dunbar. I would like to start off by thanking Alasdair Allan for securing this important member's debate today. Before I go into the body of my speech, I would like to state that I will be discussing a member of my team, and I do so with her full knowledge and blessing. Epilepsy is one of the most common neurological conditions in the world, with a world health organisation estimating the condition effects around 50 million people worldwide. In Scotland, it is estimated that around 55,000 Scots are affected by the condition, and it is important to note that anyone at any time in their life can develop epilepsy with eight people developing the condition each day. It has been shown through Epilepsy Scotland's research that there are significant gaps in data and in our understanding of the impact of epilepsy, that employers right across the country still have poor awareness of the condition and tend to often have negative views around the abilities of individuals living with epilepsy, and we have heard some already from Alasdair Allan, which in turn sees employment rates amongst those living with epilepsy at just under 37 per cent. Under the Equality Act 2010, individuals living with epilepsy, as well as other medical conditions, are protected from unlawful discrimination within the workplace. When an individual with epilepsy applies for a job, the employer cannot reject their application from the outset, with the exceptions being the armed forces. It is important to note that there is a duty on UK employers through the Equality Act that if a person with epilepsy is the best candidate for the job for the employer to carry out risk assessments based on the individual's seizures and where any risks are identified, the employer then has a duty to make reasonable adjustments where possible to allow an individual to perform their work tasks. One of my office team lives with epilepsy, so I am fortunate that she has been able to advise me on how the condition affects her. Gemma was diagnosed with photosensitive epilepsy at the age of nine and has lived with the condition since then. Gemma worked part-time while studying at university. When she declared to her employers that she had it, she informed me that they were more than understanding, but once she started working, she found that some of her colleagues treated her differently when they found out that she had epilepsy. When Gemma joined my team and told me that she suffered with epilepsy, I asked her if there was anything that I could do to support her. Her response was quick, as she said, and I am going to quote, Presiding Officer, I do not want to be treated with kid gloves and be treated like a child. I want to be treated like everyone else. When I mentioned to folk that I have epilepsy, I see the nervousness and uneasiness of individuals and then I am later treated like a child. I do not want my epilepsy to define me and my ability to do my job. I took her at her word. I hope that Gemma feels as supported in my constituency office in Aberdeen-Donside as she is at home. In fact, her mum, Donna Clark, has just raised funds for epilepsy action by walking over 50 miles in February. Of course, no in-depth Donna, as I do, she had to go that wee bit extra and ended up doing over 150 miles for the charity. I would like to say well done Donna, and I believe that the charity has raised over £440,000 so far and the money is still pouring in. I am fortunate to position that I can and am willing to learn more about epilepsy, not only how it affects Gemma but also how it can affect others living with epilepsy, as well as learn what to do in the instance of someone taking a seizure. Whilst Gemma has felt comfortable disclosing that she is epilepsy to me, others may not feel as comfortable disclosing this to their employer, which in turn would mean that they would miss out on the opportunity to get reasonable adjustments made that would benefit them. It is important to note that, although employment law is still reserved to Westminster, it is still critical that the Scottish Government do more to help to raise awareness of epilepsy and to show those who are living with epilepsy that their condition does not define them and does not limit their abilities within the workplace. I congratulate Gemma and her mother. Now to Rhoda Grant, to be followed by Kenneth Gibson for around four minutes. I congratulate Alistair Allan for bringing forward this debate to the chamber and also thank him for sharing his own experience. I would also like to pay tribute to the work of Epilepsy Scotland on raising awareness of epilepsy. I worked closely with them in the past, campaigning to raise awareness and to help people to better understand the impact of epilepsy and how it manifests itself. This debate will also do that. Disability discrimination is rife, especially in the workplace, and people with epilepsy suffer from that in the same way. As with all types of discrimination, it is caused by ignorance and fear of the unknown. Raising awareness is therefore a valuable step in counteracting it. People with epilepsy can have seizures that cause them to pass out, and colleagues and an employer would need to know how to deal with that should it happen. However, many people have their condition controlled, so seizures happen when they are sleeping or when they are unidentifiable to others. That is a benefit, but there are also pitfalls as having very mild seizures that can become disorientating or can prevent someone from engaging with others, while they are having one. At worst, that can mean that they might walk into the path of danger, so it is important to recognise the signs and intervene. Even in a work situation, that might appear to a colleague to be ignoring them. Therefore, there is a misunderstanding, and the condition could lead to a negative response from colleagues or members of the public. Other barriers to employment are issues such as not being allowed to drive or use machinery that can curtail opportunities. What struck me as counterintuitive about what Alistair Allan said, and it was also included in the Epilepsy Scotland briefing, is that people with epilepsy are often under-employed, and they are more likely to be employed in low-skill manual work, whereas there is nothing in their condition to stop them from taking highly skilled jobs. It is a condition where assistance folks can be very helpful in warning a person when a seizure is about to take place and allowing them to get themselves into a safe place. People with epilepsy often find themselves in the back of an ambulance on their way to hospital after having a seizure, where what they would really prefer is to be in a quiet place given time to recover. For some, that does not take long for others, they may need to sleep for a period. Being taken to hospital can actually add another layer of disruption to their lives, and hence raising awareness of the condition is so important. If we are better able to recognise epileptic seizures, we would be better able to assist people having them and to keep them safe and allow them to control what happens once the seizure passes. I urge the Scottish Government to strengthen services and employ more specialist nurses and also provide staff training in order to encourage the employment of people with epilepsy. We, as parliamentarians, have a role to play in creating greater awareness and understanding, thereby allowing people to live life free from discrimination. I congratulate my colleague Dr Alasdair Allan for securing day debating time this evening. As a former convener of the cross-party group on epilepsy, I am delighted to participate. Unfortunately, although some headway has been made in recent years, figures released by Epilepsy Scotland show that we must make greater strides to reduce the disability employment gap, including in North Ayrshire, where my constituency is based, which is in the 20 per cent of local authorities across the UK with the highest gap. Some of the Epilepsy Scotland client wellbeing experiences are deeply concerning, notably the fact that more than half said they struggle with their mental health, caused by a lack of employment or issues with unemployment. Most alarmingly, that included one client reporting being filmed while having a seizure in work and being the subject of a complaint, as colleagues thought, that they were sleeping. Incidents like that show that we still have a long way to go to increase the general public's understanding of epilepsy. Many people with a condition say that being ill-informed causes fear, and if people knew more about epilepsy, they could deal with it better. Eight years ago, when I led a member's debate on epilepsy and education, I highlighted that even if treatments and medications have evolved and improved, understanding of epilepsy among the general population has remained, sadly and steadfastly, very low. With that lack of understanding has come stigmatisation from some quarters and the feeling of exclusion for people who live with epilepsy. Better understanding could indeed be transformative for people with epilepsy and their experience of the world of work. Epilepsy is one of the most common neurological disorders affecting one in 97 people in Scotland. Many myths about people with epilepsy persist, although everyone's condition is in fact different, a fact that can make diagnosis sometimes very difficult. They may be well-intentioned and not all adjustments made by employers in the workplace will be suitable for everyone, and there is no one-size-fits-all. There are many different types of seizures with different symptoms, which all vary in terms of severity and recovery. Some adjustments may be minor, but they also tend to be very specific to an individual, which is why they should always be discussed between the employer and the employee. Unfortunately, experiences of stereotyping and stigma tend to lead to lower self-esteem, and people with epilepsy may prefer to hide their condition altogether due to a fear of being misunderstood and indeed being discriminated against in the workplace. That shows that educating the wider public about epilepsy remains as much of a pressing issue today as eight years ago. Therefore, I commend Epilepsy Scotland's campaign around the Purple Day of Action, which this year is on Saturday 26 March. This day helps the conversation about epilepsy, and this year will have a specific focus on increasing awareness in the workplace and providing employers with more information to create a more nuanced understanding of what is a very complex condition. The principle must also be at the centre of the Scottish Government's strategic framework, Affair Scotland, to drive better insight into the relationship between epilepsy, work and employment, and to reduce the disability employment gap for people with the condition. I also agree with Dr Allan's motion and the suggestion that the Scottish Government should now review whether its strategic framework is enough to meet the needs of people with epilepsy to increase the employment rate of people with the condition. That will be especially important in the post-Covid economy, following a pandemic during which, sadly, people with any kind of disability were more at risk of redundancy and underemployment, as they are more likely in the general population to work in those sectors that had to close and were impacted most severely. Epilepsy Scotland's latest figures clearly demonstrate that more work must be done to reduce the disability employment gap generally and specifically for people with epilepsy. I now call on the minister to respond to the debate for around seven minutes. I thank Dr Allan, my colleague and friend, for raising this important issue, tabling the motion and for his excellent speech, and for bringing lived experience to many of the issues that we are discussing today. As he said, I recently attended a cross-party group meeting hosted with Epilepsy Scotland presents and chaired by Alistair Allan. I heard first hand of the new research that was developed by Professor Patricia Finlay of the University of Strathclyde, titled Epilepsy and Employment Scotland, highlighting the difficulties people with epilepsy face to find and retain secure employment, which is, of course, an issue that was pursued and a theme pursued by many members who made excellent contributions during the debate. The research indicates that 81.3 per cent of the non-sable population Scotland is in employment, but for people with epilepsy, the figure is only 36.9 per cent. The statistics were reflected in the motion tabled by Alistair Allan. The Scottish Government is committed to supporting everyone who can and wants to work into fair, sustainable employment. That includes people living with epilepsy, and through our fair work approach, we are committed to addressing inequalities in the labour market and supporting the development of diverse and inclusive workplaces. In a fairer Scotland for disabled people employment action plan, which was published back in 2018, the Scottish Government outlined the initial steps that it will take to meet its commitment of reducing the disability employment gap by at least half by 2038. The action plan has panned disability and focuses on the need to take action to address the structural barriers that can prevent all disabled people from accessing fair and sustainable work. For example, quality of careers advice and information, accessibility regarding communications, employers attitudes, which is an issue that many people mentioned in this debate, and recruitment policies and practices. However, as I am sure most members may be aware, the disability employment gap remains one of the most persistent labour market inequalities, not only in Scotland but across all those islands. The disability employment gap had steadily decreased from the 2016 baseline of 37.4 percentage points to 32.6 percentage points in 2019. However, the latest figures indicate that, in 2020, the progress has reversed slightly with the disability employment gap widening to 33.4 percentage points. That is still lower than 37.4 percentage points back in 2016, but it is higher than what we were talking about in 2019. Does the minister agree that this is a deplorable waste of incredible talent and potential talent, and would he support the idea that perhaps all of us as members of the Scottish Parliament and as employers might consider registering with the disability confident scheme? That sounds like a commendable idea that the member puts forward, and I am sure that members will want to consider that. In terms of the widening gap in 2020, as Kenny Gibson highlighted, that is due to a greater decrease in the employment rate of disabled people compared to non-disabled people during the course of the pandemic. Kenny Gibson highlighted the impact that pandemics had on many people in our society. We know that the ongoing pandemic is having a considerable impact on employment opportunities for disabled people, and we have continued working on this issue throughout the pandemic. We have invested £4.5 million over the past five years to implement our neurological care and support national framework for action to ensure that everyone with a neurological condition such as epilepsy can access the care and support that they need. The aims include improving the provision of co-ordinated health and social care and support, and also developing sustainable workforce models, and ensuring high standards of person-centred care for those with neurological conditions. Since 2020, we have also invested nearly £200,000 in projects that will improve the health and wellbeing of people with epilepsy in Scotland. Those projects include establishing an epilepsy register, being established in NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, Lanarkshire and Tayside, and also expanding nationally to drive up standards of care. Secondly, a programme developed by quarriers to improve the capacity of people with complex epilepsy to self-manage their condition and increase their resilience and confidence. Epilepsy is fully within the scope of actions that we are taking to support disabled people into and in work. We have undertaken a review of supported employment to identify gaps in current provision so that steps are taken to offer a service that effectively meets the needs of clients and we will publish our findings of that this summer. Over the past two financial years, we have also invested £650,000 into a public social partnership that is working to improve the recruitment and retention rates for disabled people by developing and testing different types of support for employers to put in place inclusive employment practices. We have also launched a new workplace equality funds just in January this year, with up to £800,000 available for projects that will seek to change and improve employer practices and to address long-standing barriers in the labour market, including for disabled people and those living with epilepsy. No-one left behind is our strategy in Scotland for placing people at the centre of the design and delivery of employment services, and it promotes a strengthened partnership approach where the Government works together with third sector training providers to identify local needs and make informed evidence-based decisions, flexing those to meet emerging labour market demands. Overall, in 2022-23, we will invest £35 million for the no-one left behind approach, and that demonstrates commitment to providing person-centred and place-based employability support to those who are at risk of long-term unemployment, including people with disabilities. In terms of next steps, tackling the disability employment gap is clearly an integral part of our vision for Scotland to be a leading fair work nation by 2025, where fair work drives success, wellbeing, prosperity for individuals, businesses, organisations and society. Working in co-production with disabled people's organisations, we are now reviewing our disabled people employment action plan to ensure that we have the right actions and information to continue to make progress going forward. This year, we will refresh the action plan alongside and aligned with a refresh of the fair work action plan, as well as a new gender pay gap action plan and ethnicity pay gap strategy. Reducing the disability employment gap is a significant commitment. We will draw an all-available research, expertise and the voice of lived experience across Scotland to inform our approach. I do not have ready answers to many of the points made today during the debate, but it is really important that we take those points away and feed them into this refreshed process and make sure that we reflect on how we can help to address them in the workplace. Just to finish, the Scottish Government is committed to ensuring that all people living in Scotland with epilepsy are able to access the best possible employability support that puts the individual at the centre. Through our fair work approach, we are very much committed to addressing inequalities in the labour market and supporting the development of diverse and inclusive workplaces. We will continue to take action to eradicate structural barriers faced by disabled people, including those living with epilepsy.