 All right, Suresh Ramaswamy, hello, welcome. Delighted to be here, Atlas, it's such a treat. I'm looking forward to this conversation. Yes, me too. What a critical voice you are in igniting our enlightenment as a planet. So pumped for those that don't know Suresh's background. He's a transformational teacher and visionary entrepreneur passionate about igniting and catalyzing the transformation of humanity. And he authored a book called Just Be, Transform Your Life and Live as Infinity. And he provides an exceptional way for us to recognize that the so-called piercing the valous valer, the gaitless gait, has its so-called pops or steps and that to have a harmonic process in integrating and awakening and sharing butterfly affecting out that radiant love light is so paramount. Absolutely, well put, well put. Yes, so it's a beautiful process of flowering that we're going through both individually and collectively. And so I think it's really very pertinent to what's going on our conversation today. I would invite the viewers to not only listen to this as a exchange of ideas and concepts, but really more importantly as an invitation to swim in infinity. Because that's really what's going on here. We're swimming in infinity and saying, hey, come on, jump in, jump in. That's really the point and not endless analysis. We want to jump in, we want to splash in the light we want to delight in the sheer joy of our own existence. And that's really what beingness is all about. And that's really what I would like to invite at the outset. I love it. Oh, yes, a appearance of the light. A cameo of the divine, of eternity. Here we are. Yes, yes, yeah. Jump in, stop the suffering, increase the joy in the peace, maximize the potential of the civilization. Yes, and really all the suffering, all the suffering from all the times in the past, all that, the point has been just this, to jump into this ocean right now. That's what it's all come down to for every person listening. This is the moment for you, that this is the point to jump in. And all that suffering is meant to really motivate you, focus to you and make you enthusiastic about jumping into this ocean of joy. Yeah, the suffering is the drill sergeant of awakening. And the reason why the, in the analysis that I've understood, there's a avoiding as the infinite and the void as the shunya, the emptiness, the nothingness, the very black wholeness, and that the process of sort of fractaling away from the void is in itself sort of the most like intoxicative, individuated aspect. And so to quote swim in infinity or to die before you die, as many of the mystics have said also, just that process in itself is both great for the eradication of suffering because you recognize it's all the same beautiful one intelligence that play with itself. And yet then it makes it so that you can properly fractal outward as your firework and not commit malevolence or suffering. So the actual, in a sense, forcing function, the very creative forcing function itself in a sense has both the callback process of yoga or union with the absolute yet also it has the process of, no, the whole point was for me to get away from the void. Yeah, very interesting. That's an excellent way to put it because there's the process of evolution and involution. And so there's the moving away because we wanted the excitement of individuation. We wanted that. We were like, what could be more exciting than feeling like we're not part of the infinite, even though you can never ever be apart from it, but what if we could just get that feeling wouldn't that be exciting? So we experimented with individuation and it was more than we bargained for perhaps. It was exciting and a whole lot more. And right then there comes a point where it's like, wait, I wanna be back in touch with my infinite source, with my infinite essence turns out that turning, that pure wanting to turn back is really what's needed. You don't now have to go through some big qualification process that, well, let's check your password. Let's check you are by definition an emanation of that infinite. And so your turning back is easier than you think. You just had to shake off a lot of stuff and you gotta get this very clear-minded, single-pointed pure intention that I wanna be recognizing, realizing this union with infinity. So that's really what it's all about. And it's in many ways, it's so simple. It's really very simple. It's not terribly complicated. But of course you wanna feel your way back. So there's an intuitive aspect to it. And I think you were talking about it Atlas in different ways. And you can look at this as the functions that drive you away and then there are functions that draw you back. And once you learn to cooperate with these forces, you'll find that you're riding the way back. It's not like you're fighting, fighting, fighting. You have to align yourself with these forces, these intelligences that will pull you back. That'll pull you back. Just like the gravitational force of a larger planetary body, it overcomes any smaller thing floating around. It dominates. And so we need to just when satellites are sent across the solar system, they really look at big planets, right? The Jupiters and the Saturns so that you can use their gravitational pull instead of just having to burn fuel. And so once you know the right orbit, you can use the gravitational pull of Jupiter and that's really what's gonna take you. It's not your own little self-propelled little engine that's gonna take you there. So we could call that grace, we could call that so many things, but it's really this pure alignment with this bigger thing. We can call it whatever, the wholeness, the intelligence, the infinity. Yeah, that's really powerful. So the component that is continuously referred to across many of the guests that come on the program is that when you don't know your true nature as this cameo of eternity slash infinity, what happens is when you don't know yourself as the very source of awareness and realities themselves, when you don't know yourself as that, when you haven't went through this so-called neti neti, not this, not that process of negating yourself as simply a person and even negating yourself as awareness and then recognizing that you're actually the source of awareness and realities themselves and that there is this massive vortexing of one intelligence at play with itself only after that point of going inward which is usually catalyzed by suffering when Lakshmi in Maya is drawing you out as a person towards experiences and relationships and substances, everything outward trying to seek peace and happiness and objects. And like in the archetypal story, the parable of prodigal sun, you get hit in the head with a sledgehammer and then you're like, okay, okay, I will turn inward and analyze awareness. Maybe there is such a non-existence consciousness, but and so that happens and only from knowing yourself as the source of the realities and the awareness themselves, will you then be able to properly firework as the unique individuated spark of the infinite where you radiate like the sun, the peace and the happiness of the natural state of existence and then you serve for the planetary architectures in pure service to other people rather than the very contracted person identity that is unable to find peace and happiness anywhere it looks because it doesn't know its true nature. And so that's the process of in a sense, yoga, union, mysticism going all the way in communing, uniting with the natural source that you are and then going outward in this Satchin Ananda fireworking. Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, I talk about it as three phases if you will of this grand process. The first piece is transcending because enmeshed in this reality, we can struggle. We can be like, what else is going on? All I can see is pains, suffering, torment, trepidation, turbulence. I don't like this. That's all I know. I just don't like it. So it requires this transcendence so we can glimpse something beyond. And so this transcendence, you could get it through various ways of disciplining yourself, disciplining your mind, your senses and so on. So neti neti would be, for example, one way of sort of simplifying what you see around you and going back to the pristine truth of your being. So this transcendence is more often than not a series of glimpses because you see something and then you're back here and then, okay, it's Monday morning, get back to my work and I have to drive through traffic and this and that and when's the next retreat? That's what I'm looking forward to. So this transcendence is up and down, up and down, up and down. But every time we go up, we are seeing a little bit more and hopefully stabilizing a little bit more. And so in every step, there's traps, but for now I'll just keep it simple. It's seeing the forest instead of the trees is what transcendence is. You see the big picture. And the big picture when it's seen, then you are never the same again because even if it's a glimpse, you know it's true. It's not just a second hand knowledge. You know it's true. Some people, if they had a quantum shift, they think this is it because now I'm really seeing the thing and I know this is way different than what I used to be last week. Clearly I'm enlightened. And a story. And a story. So we have this, we wanna get there fast and we wanna quickly put our flag that got it enlightened, Suresh made it. That's it. Yes. All is well. Now I can open some new Instagram accounts and so forth. But we may be a little rushed in there because there are aspects of our being which are not quite there yet. So part of us, yes, we have an authentic glimpse of the ultimate truth but there may be some aspects which are not quite there. They're still lurking in the basement, in the closet and we need to bring the whole gang to this big view. So this process is integration because integration is saying there's still some friction I can see within me. Part of me is way up there. Part of me is not quite there. So there's this friction that you feel and there's no denying that. So even if you claim anything, this friction will tell you, wait a minute, there's something that still needs work, that needs attention and that's good news because you might as well do it in this integration work. If you really want to stabilize in the higher states, you got to do this work. Now integration is not very glamorous because it can feel like it's not so much fun. Not too many people are writing letters back home about their integration process because it's just like no fun. Whereas transcendence, you want to write letters back home. Like, oh, let me tell you about this amazing experience I had with light. That's your transcendent experience that you want to talk about. Integration is like, I can't believe I'm still dealing with this thing that happened to me 2,500 years back. I'm still dealing with it. So, but it's important. So integration is that process. Then that naturally leads to what I call embodiment which is this now I can live as this infinite being through this finite container, radiating light, sharing light, uplifting the collective, presenting myself as a pure instrument, as a pure channel for the infinite. So that's the embodiment process and that too is very significant. Now all these, I look at these, the very broad brush, transcendence, integration, embodiment. And we can go into this in a lot more detail but I think when we really get into trouble is we just pay attention to transcendence and many traditions have emphasized transcendence and not so much integration and embodiment. And so you end up over emphasizing transcendence and you have hard time functioning in this reality. You can end up saying, oh, this physical reality, you know, it's not real anyway. So why should I bother, right? I'm gonna sit in my Satchitananda, I'm gonna sit in my bliss and I'm gonna find a really nice cave someplace and sit there, that's it. And people will come to me and I will bless them. So this is, you're missing a big thing there which is being out in the world. That's where you really get to see. If the realization is durable, reliable, is it, does it stick? Is it stable? This takes time and it takes wisdom to say, okay, let me do what needs to be done. This is work that's very important too. And so this is a little bit simplified approach. Actually, there's a lot more going on than just, it's not like you only do transcendence than you only do integration, it's not like that. In fact, there's a lot going on in parallel, but this makes it a little easier to understand from a macro perspective. Yes. We can step in and look at the more micro perspective that there's, even if you have like an awesome meditation over the weekend, you can integrate that right away, right? You don't have to wait for all the transcendence to pile up, then start the integration work. You can be doing integration every little shift, which is the smart thing to do. That way, wherever you are, you are in a stable, balanced, relatively optimal place. So it's not wobbly, right? You don't wanna be wobbly along the path because you see that where people have tasted something amazing, but they're pretty wobbly. Why? Because there's a lot of stuff that still needs to be addressed. Wow, so relatable and such a good roadmap for awakening such a good aspect to this unified theory of spirituality that is really being birthed right now. That's very exciting because we have so many thousands of years of mystics and yogis and different processes and methods, styles of uniting with the true nature through this veil, this veil through this gate, this gate and to have a navigable roadmap for awakening that especially the most dense civilizational economic machinery and governments, politicians, propaganda, all of that can also be able to see and can also be able to leverage and say, hey, if one of our employees is beginning a process of getting these quote glimpses of recognizing their nature as being a spark of the infinite and them being significantly beyond just being this physical person in this finite reality, but they're beginning to get this taste of being the source of awareness and realities themselves that then there can be a process of maybe their friends, their family, their coworkers, online communities, the basic process for them to integrate said transcendence into the more stabilization, integration is all about stabilization of these stages of awakening. And then like you said, these stages happen simultaneously with you slowly begin embodying more and more of your transcendent stages to where you can tell that you're no longer radiating out suffering and malevolence and anger and jealousy and the hatred ill will, but you begin radiating out compassion and love and peace and bliss and joy and wanting to maximize human potential and create those architectures to be in service to other people. You begin being like the very sun what is meant by enlightenment. And so it's very critical. You also mentioned the middle path or the middle way. It's the most important aspect to this as well along with not falling into these crevices like we mentioned where you go in any expression any expression of the infinite is its own unique expression. So if you'd like to go off to the cave, go for it. If you'd like to experience what it's like to have an awakening, having a transcendent experience and then getting in a sense pulled back by those said civilizational architectures that are a little bit more archaic like the governments and economic machineries and maybe you get sent into a diagnostic of bi psychiatric DSM-5 being put into a mental facility. These types of things still happening in the West and the versus the East in a sense being like congratulations on your non-dual experience. And so whatever firework of the infinite is its own unique flavor and taste and it's a process of the one intelligence learning about itself yet at the same time we're road mapping out these crevices for you to know so that you don't slip into a 50 foot crevice that was covered by snow and then suffocate because there was nobody there to help steward you along the way that's been on the trajectory before. And so the middle path is all about Tantra. It's all about weaving. It's all about Ramana Maharshi said Sahaja Samadhi you weave your profound realizations into the social fabric itself. That's the ultimate test is can you be awake as a normie and can you do it in a way that's harmonic in the ascension of consciousness of its awakening to its true infinite nature. Perfect, yeah, that's beautiful. And it's also a recognition of the fact that nobody wakes up, nobody gets enlightened in isolation. We're part of the collective. So what happens is once you have a deeper realization now that has to be fed into the collective you can't just have this isolated enlightenment thing and disappear. You are still part of the collective at many levels and embodiment is a recognition of our connection. So in fact it ends up being you can choose how you want to embody there's a wide range of ways to embody. It's gonna look different for everybody. It's not about being a teacher by any means. It can look like anything but each person has to find that way where they are feeding into the collective and really living as that unity. So we say, okay, I'm in unity consciousness. Well, if you're not living that then it's just a nice little thing you have in your head that I'm part of everything. If you're living unity consciousness what I call living as infinity then you're living and breathing that connection. So it becomes a matter of... It becomes a natural way of functioning really. And so it's an evolutionary process. Now again, a lot of these things need to take their own time but I think just like you said Atlas there's just knowing there's a map and what I wanted to do with what I share and in my book is that I want to provide something that is independent of any existing system or tradition or religion because all of them even though there are some absolutely awesome traditions out there they are still enmeshed in certain constructs. And sometimes it's hard to tell apart which is the real thing and then the extra thing that's been added on. And so it's so confusing. So I want to pull it out of all that and in plain English say these are the things so that somebody who's not bought into some XYZ tradition can still relate to it, can still use it. So there's the process map which is what we just talked about. There's also a map that I share in my book about the reality that we find ourselves in. How do you make sense of this reality? You know, it's easy to say, oh, this whole thing is totally an illusion. Let's not talk about it but there is actually a structure to that. And so I call it infinity and the fields of light to really help us navigate these dimensions because there's a very finite dimension which we are very familiar with through our five senses but then there's settler and settler and settler and settler dimensions. And these settler dimensions are significant. We don't want to get carried away with them but they are significant because as we navigate and find our way back to who we truly are we're gonna bump into these settler aspects of ourselves and this reality. So if we have a map of that, it helps a lot because number one, you can say, okay, it looks like I'm moving in the right direction. Number two, very important, you don't get stuck someplace thinking, this is it. I've arrived. This is heaven, end of story. Well, it turns out it's just a nice subtle astral plane that you ended up in. So you don't wanna get carried away with that and settle down there. Once you have a map, you're like, oh, I'm still in Denver and I'm driving to California. I've still gotta, I've still gotta cross the Rockies and go through Utah, Arizona. I've still got ways to go. So at least it gives you that sense of, yes, I've made progress, but I gotta keep going. So that's the whole map of reality which takes you from this more matter, physical reality to energy, to light, and then light to pure consciousness. Well, through those one more time for us. So physical reality or matter-based reality, behind that is energy. We're talking subtle energy here, but to simplify, matter, energy, and then beyond that is light. And this light is very significant. This is not our ordinary light. I'm not talking about the electromagnetic light that we typically see coming out of a light bulb. Light I'm talking about is transcendental light. And transcendental light is well beyond the electromagnetic spectrum. It is, we could think of it as the highest, purest vibration that exists within creation. That's this pure light. I sometimes call it the light of infinity because it's the most fundamental emanation that came out of source, that came out of infinity. So imagine there's only pure consciousness, right? There's only pure consciousness. As the idea of a creation started coming about, creative intelligence for creating creation, that was the first thing that came out of pure consciousness. From that creative intelligence came the very first highest vibrations of creation, the most fundamental vibrations, and that's the light I'm talking about, the light of infinity. One of the cool things about light is we can engage with light and we can call upon light because our own nature includes light. This is not something out there. This is very much part of us. As we look at ourselves- Suresh, if I can just check in. So it could be visualized as from source it going light energy matter or from the physical person consciousness going from matter to energy to light. Is that right? Yes. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Perfect. So, yes. So once we understand this very broad sense of what creation is about, then we also see that we too are actually all of these things ourselves. So there's a matter aspect to us which is the very physical body. There's a subtle energy aspect to us which are energetic body and there's a light aspect to us. You could call it the light body just to keep it easy. So this is very much part of us too. Now, this light now, which is an aspect of us, a higher aspect of us, we can engage with that, work with that. We can invoke that because there is enormous power in the higher aspects of our own being. And we might as well leverage this enormous power within us to take us back to source. So we can, even the relative realities we can function intelligently rather than simply thinking, okay, there is this physical reality. Okay, the real thing is a source. Everything else is Maya. Everything else is illusion. Okay, let's not worry about it. You end up functioning in a way that pulls you out in a very powerful way because light is just amazingly powerful and amazingly benevolent and it connects us to the source. So why not use that as a way to get back to our essence? So that's another piece of the puzzle in terms of how do we get back there in an expeditious manner? Because we want to get back there, but I don't want to struggle inch by inch. How do I get back there in a graceful, elegant, beautiful way? And it is absolutely possible. And I think light is one of those key ingredients to that graceful approach. Approach back to infinity. I love the honing in on the map that is as has been road mapped out as well across these thousands of years. And like you indicated earlier, it's a process of creating a sorting algorithm where separating the wheat from the chaff or we're draining the dirty bathwater and we're lifting up the clean baby because there's a lot of dogmas and fundamentalism and noise. And we also have to synthesize science and spirituality in the process. So there's a lot to do here. And so we're creating this navigable roadmap that does that process for those that are in the very poll that we're sharing here, which is this sort of matter and physical poll to be able to navigate their way towards the recognizing themselves as the very source of awareness and realities. And then to be able to like a Jedi navigate across this back and forth with ease and with peace and grace, like you say, but the process to get from person consciousness to recognizing, recognizing oneself as intelligent infinity that process itself can be done with grace and that process can be done with basically taking the last thousands of years of mystic wisdom and making it so that you don't go through this six year Atlas process where Atlas got hit with a bunch of sledgehammers along the way and we can make it more graceful to where, yeah, we don't have to fall into so many sledgehammers and crevices along said way. And so that's, and we can make it fun and we can make it playful and we can make it around the eradication of malevolence and suffering in the maximizing potential. We can provide a big utility and a practicality to this process of recognizing all that you look at is your own creation of one intelligence at play with itself and from there when you come from the understanding, then you do it from a place of joy and peace and maximizing potential and not butterflying, affecting out malevolence and suffering because you don't know yourself then. That's right, that's right. Yeah, exactly. I think some of the key ingredients are having a pure intention and having some good maps along the lines of what we just talked about and working with light and also a conversation like this, we're not just sharing ideas and concepts. There is energy, vibration, light being shared. In fact, there's consciousness being shared. So in fact, this is a very significant piece of the puzzle where you can take advantage of this osmosis effect that happens when you hang out with people who are very much deeply into this. And so there is a piece you get without having to go through the usual struggles or the pitfalls, you get a direct drink of the infinite and that can save you a lot of trouble and not to mention the delight and joy aspect of it is much more evident when you hang out with people with high consciousness. And that's what has been taught for the thousands of years as Darshan, it's the direct transmission of the radiant energy of the sun. And you can get the taste of that by being around those that have tasted it themselves. And that's in a sense, the direct access point. And so, for example, a top recommendation for those that are very much so still in this very matter physical phase would be people like Eckhart Tolle and the power of now sort of enables you to very slowly migrate your way in this direction. And as you get closer and closer to knowing yourself, you can jump to people like Nisargatsata Maharaj and I am that. And so that can be some of your more just doing more direct pointings. And then also you can take things like the way Suresh is putting this from a place of transformation is also a very beautiful and important way of putting it because the very nature of the beautiful lotus flower is that it grows out of mud. And so for you to recognize as Carl Jung and so many of the others greats have said is that your very roots that reach down to hell are exactly what enables your beautiful fruits to reach said heavens. And so all of these processes for you of suffering there you're not the victim to your own creation. You're actually leveraging that for as catalysts for yourself to awaken. And so the faster you can flip it from being a victim of life to being the creator of your own life and using these catalysts for yourself to awaken and to firework beautifully. That's the whole transformational aspect when you go through the navigation of transcendence and integration and embodiment when you go through the process of recognizing that the very transformation, the very alchemystery happening at your spark of the infinite is happening to you as the creator it's happening for you. You are the creator of it for yourself that that is a huge revelatory, beautiful unlocking process. Absolutely, absolutely. Because it's tremendously empowering to see that turns out, I'm not climbing uphill and somebody's trying to push me down while I'm trying to climb up. Turns out there's nobody trying to push you down but turns out you were having a backpack full of heavy rocks that was pulling you down. And once you see that, all you had to do is open the backpack and toss the rocks out. And eventually you see that the rate at which you can let go of cold stuff that will dictate to a large extent how quickly you move forward and how beautifully it unforce. If you fight the process by hanging onto the rocks then there's a lot of going back and forth, back and forth and you're like, I really like this, why is it so hard? But you're not letting go of certain things. You gotta let it go. Gotta let all those rocks go. And some of these rocks, I have to say they don't look like bad rocks. See, some of the things were like, oh, I had a horrible experience 10 years back. We can see this is a rock I wanna toss out. But then there are rocks which look quite beautiful. They look like, these are a sense of self. Like, I'm so good at so and so, I'm a great swimmer. Okay, fine. But that can turn out to be a rock that you need to let go of. It just depends on how you relate to it. So if it's a sense of identity that's limiting you it's become a rock that looks good. Now you have to eventually find a way to let it go. There's no other way around it. So it can be confusing because we are more culturally speaking about rocks that are painful rocks and not so much about rocks that look good. We just feel like, what's the problem there? I'm a great athlete. Isn't that cool? Everybody says, cool. Yeah, that's great. But when you start walking on this particular path you start looking at everything and saying anything that binds me to finite reality, that's a problem. That's a rock. It looks bad, beautiful color, not so good color. Doesn't matter. It's binding you to anything less than the infinite. So we gotta let it go. And so this is a process. This is where we start getting smarter about letting it go without a lot of fuss. I consider this as wisdom. Wisdom is really very simply and clearly seeing what the heck is going on. And then without a fuss doing what needs to be done, saying, okay, I can see this is no good. I'll let it go, done. It's gonna be as simple and as clean as that. And I think this is the, I think of as where we are moving towards. We're currently where transformation was a lot of fuss and we got a struggle. We're used to struggle, struggle, struggle before. Now we get on the path of transformation and we're gonna make sure it's a lot of struggle there. It's like, we're just using that. I wanna make sure this is gonna be something that I own, I'm gonna, you know. But it doesn't have to be like that. It can be very simple, very clean, very elegant. Very beautiful. We can in a sense very wisely and gracefully recognize, okay, this is a big rock and that I see it as a rock and I'm going to lovingly say thank you for the suffering that you catalyzed in me awakening. And now it's time to drop you and for me to continue onward in dropping the rocks that are basically binding us to finite reality, the rocks that are kind of like the layers to the onion as well, the very attachments and stories and forms of person identity and all these things because once you get to this top of the so-called flat mountain because you're already it, but once you sort of undergo these pops and become more subtle and more formless, recognize yourself as the very source of awareness and realities, then what happens is you can express yourself from a place rather than from the conditioning of the rocks that are in your backpack. You're expressing yourself from a place of pure love, light, bliss, peace, service to others. Beautiful, and that's an excellent point. I want to emphasize one thing you said in passing, which is when you are releasing these rocks, you thank them because as you were making your way through these many finite incarnations, you are adapting, you're actually very smart. You've adapted so many times and some of those adaptations resulted in these rocks. Rocks are not just like, just got there somehow. These were adaptations which help you get to where you are. So there's tremendous gratitude we have for these rocks, but we also have to say that the adaptation of yesterday is a maladaptation of today, okay? Because yes, it helped me a lot, but now when I look at it, I don't need it. It's time to let it go. So it's a very dynamic process. So we thank it, we let it go, we move on. So this is the next level of adaptation towards our march back to essence. Perfect. This is one of probably the most important reflections on this navigable roadmap to awakening through the Veilless Veil, Gateless Gate, these pops to recognizing oneself as a source of awareness and realities is that all of what the contracted personhood identity is for you right now, that that is the beautiful catalyst for you to uncontract, to relax that contraction, to expand yourself to these more popped states of the infinite. And that is like, if we can at least get that step like into that very matrixy dense physical reality that your very suffering is your very drill sergeant for awakening. So if you can at least shift your lens from being a victim to seeing your suffering as the actual drill sergeant that's supposed to awaken you that that in itself can be such a powerful shift that then you start seeing it everywhere. Like, oh, that's actually, Bantino Massaro calls it the emotional guidance system. So you're getting this emotional guidance and spirituality is in a sense realignment to that one heart, to infinite. And that to see that, oh, I'm feeling anger and rather than spending minutes in the cloud of anger, rather we become more and more subtle and recognize the cloud of anger was appearing and disappearing in the sky of awareness. And then we recognize more and more that anger was actually guidance for me to snap back to the peace and joy of the awareness. And so we pick up the speed at which we recognize those things. Right, right. And another way of talking about is of that is the shift towards a more beingness way of living because what happens is ordinarily we perceive reality in a certain way and we look at it as here I am and here's a book in front of me. So there's a subject-object way of looking at things. As soon as you look at it as subject and object, now there's a relationship going on, right? It's not just relationship with people but with anything you have a relationship. And it becomes now about how do I have great relationships? In other words, how do I have great experiences because I wanna have a great life and I wanna have great experiences. It's all about experiences with outside objects and people. This orientation has taken us in a certain direction, you know, humanity because we end up saying how can I do the right things, right? Because if I do the right vacations, I have the right relationships, acquire the right objects. These are all doings. If I do all the right stuff, I'm gonna have great experiences and life will be good. And so we chase experiences through doingness. And this inherently is not for failure. No wonder everybody's failing at that and suffering but they keep thinking it's not quite right. Maybe this other investment is really what I need to try or maybe this other kind of person I need to meet, then it'll be all good. Well, it's not gonna work out because it's inherently set up for failure to make you see that the subject object thing doesn't work. It doesn't work because it is based on a false premise. There is no subject, there's no object. It's all one thing. So you start moving from an external orientation to an internal orientation. And in the internal orientation, you sit with awareness and you start seeing what's going on. And what you start seeing is this underlying fabric which is very unitive where increasingly you cannot point at anything and say that thing, there is no that thing. There's all of that is me. So now you end up with a different way of living because the only thing that makes sense then is being. There's nothing left to do. You can only be when you are full, you are whole, you are unified. What are you gonna do? There's nothing you could do in that orientation. You can only be. And that's why I summarized the 500 pages of my book in the title, just be, if you get that, you're okay. And so the beingness way of living, so connecting it with what you were saying earlier, what does it look like? It looks like a state of flow. Whatever's coming up, whether it's an emotion like anger you were talking about or some apparent unfortunate circumstance, all of these things are just perturbations within the field of consciousness. All that is simply an undulation. It doesn't throw you off. So you can stay in a state of flow, stay in being, and as you do that, I call that living as infinity because what you're doing is you're constantly in recognition of your infinite nature, but you are functioning through this finite point in a parent time and space. So you're bringing that infinity to bear upon this finite reality. And that is living as infinity. It's not being either or. It's either being caught up in infinity or caught up in the finite reality. You are infinity and you are functioning, radiating, expressing in this so-called apparent dimension, apparent reality. Perfect. I'm so curious. How does the analogy of the, how many different ways can you paint a canvas? How many different ways can you arrange musical notes into a song? How many different ways can you arrange images into a movie? How many different ways can you put together food into recipes? How many different ways can you vibrate your vocal cords into languages? How does that style of an approach, like if you looked at planet Earth as one song out of all of the possible songs, AKA universe, or if you looked at Earth, like it's a beet salad and like the next appearance of eternity will be chicken soup. Yes. In fact, the more you step back, this is happening like all the time there's eternity. I mean, time and space are part of the paint that's actually been thrown on the canvas. See, we like to think of it as this universe is this big chunk of space. There's a bunch of planets and stars floating in it. And in that, we're painting. No, that whole thing is a painting, right? Everything, including the space and time. So because of that, you know, what's going on on our beautiful planet, it's a speck of the painting that's up there on the canvas at this point in so-called time. So it's really, I would say the takeaway is all as well. No matter, you know, if it's your favorite salad or not your favorite salad that's currently being served, don't worry about it, it's all good. It's all good. Oh, a way to potentially tap into that analogy at a deeper level would be, do you know yourself as the source of all endless combinations of food into recipes? Because if you knew yourself as that, then you could playfully dance through whatever recipe was currently being served. And so this is the type of thing. Yes, are there going to be aspects to, let's say, the chicken soup that somebody is getting a portion of it that might be very, very spicy? Yes, absolutely. There are a lot of people that are going through very spicy lives. And are there also aspects to the chicken soup that are kind of like just, right? Or is the entire thing, in a sense, just ineffably perfect, even through the spicy sections and the sections that are a little too cold, but that it's all just that ineffable chicken soup or beet salad or steak and potatoes or whatever the creation is. It simply is that cameo of eternity, of the endless possibilities of infinity expressing itself. But another aspect to this, I would say, as much as the firework of the infinite, this would be good to get your perspective here. Suresh, your very spark of infinity and knowing yourself as that is great as the source of the one intelligence at play with itself, beautifully important. Yet also, in a sense, in the process of when you go neti neti away from your person consciousness into awareness and away from awareness even into the very impersonal eternal awareness that all inclusive great I am. And then you pop the observer is observed. And so then you pop into what is it that observes the all inclusive awareness? And the question then is, what is that very source that creates that first attribute of awareness and the realities to immerse itself into as the witness, the observer. And so as you do that process, what happens is at that very last layer, you undergo a process of recognizing that even awareness itself, the very all inclusive great I am awareness, that even that by being that first attribute that it itself is the most intoxicative, assumptive attribute, we hallucinate the sense of self as this one intelligence. We self-invent the sense of I in order for there to be a witness, an observer, under awareness. And so that process of in a sense, going from an atman to an anatman to going to anata to going to the very state of that no self, the very void or emptiness to at least be able to get to that as well as one getting to recognize that this is an endless fireworking, the very avoid void. How do you feel about that as well? Yeah. So in fact, it's very much part of the model because infinity, we haven't really defined infinity because it's a very tricky business because infinity is the totality. And when you say the totality different from infinity which is pure consciousness, which is outside of everything we can think of. So in other words, that's what I think of as pure beingness. It's simply there. And we essentially find that as we peel away the layers, we peel away all the relative aspects of our being until we bump into this core sense of individuation, right? And then that too is released into the unknown because it truly is the unknown. We can, we cannot attach a single attribute of any kind to this pure consciousness. But so we release ourselves into that unknown into the undefined, and at that point, you really cannot say a whole lot. And really, it's literally, there's no particular creation that's relevant. It's beyond creation. It's beyond all of creation. So that's, you could call that as in a sense the combination where you are drawn back, absorbed into the source, where you no longer can think of yourself as a separate emanation of any kind. It's one from being pure beingness. That's what I think of it as. It's understood that it's truly ineffable, indescribable, not characterizable. We are so used to talking about it we are so used to talking with respect to creation, right? Almost everything, all these processes they tend to happen in creation. But once you cross that line, at that point, you simply cannot say anything. So that's where the wisest amongst us have simply said, I'm not gonna say anything. That's it. That's closer to the reality. Yeah, the very Dao that can be named is not the eternal Dao. Just so simple. Just recognize that language, symbols, descriptions will never be able to map the territory itself but we will get, the coolest thing that you can do as you awaken is to try and make the best maps. It's like that one. Yeah. So we try to do our best sitting here in this fairly manifest reality but the cool news is the most profound thing they're gonna ever think of, that is already right there, part of you. It's already. It's right there. So it's, even though we may, you know, bumble back through all kinds of stuff, but the fact is that's there. Even if you can't talk about it, it's right there. That's very powerful and very, yet again, very empowering, very empowering. So no matter what, you can't miss it. No matter what happens, you're not gonna miss it because it's so much built into you. So it's written on your forehead, right? Success, you are gonna get there because there's no way you're gonna miss it. It's built into you. It's intrinsic. It's so fundamental. I loved this one as well. This one was so good. Just said it. Coolest thing. What is the coolest thing that you can think of? And then somebody goes off and they're like, I don't know. You know, it's like this, this, just, like, there's so much creativity in our creation right here, right now, so profound that we designed this exploration for the one intelligence to play with itself through these vales and these gaitless gates in this dreamed, ascensionary process of awakening to its true nature. Through all of our insanity of 100 million people dying, I bet that I can't make a creation where I forget so intensely that I kill 100 million people in a hundred years. That, and there it is. And so to see it as that, as the very creator of it, is knowing yourself. As was said 2,500 years ago, the Delphic maxim, the number one that was written on the top of the temple of Apollo Delphi, know thyself. Just know yourself as the very source, as the very creator, as the very infinitude. Exactly, exactly. And that is, again, as you feel into that, it can be as simple as that. You know, everything you've heard, just feel into that kind of statement. I'm an infinite being, or I'm an infinite being of light. Just feel into that, and you will find your consciousness has shifted. And so part of that process is, we talked about letting go on other pieces, the trust in the unknown. Because even though we can create hundreds of maps and brilliant things and everything, at the end of the day, you can't really say what it's all about. So it is very much a mystery. It's very much an unknown. And when you're right there at the edge, you will feel that either I can stay here and be safe in the meanness. In spite of all its limitations, I'm gonna feel safe as this little me, or I can cross this line into the unknown. I don't know what that is. Not only that, I, as me, will dissolve. So I will become part of the unknown. You cannot step into the unknown and say, I'm gonna still be the same or me. Doesn't work. You cross that line, you step into the unknown. And after that point, you are yourself undefined. You're undefined. And so there is some trepidation after all is said and done because we have lived for a long time and we love knowing stuff, characterizing stuff, staying in that space where everything is known. Everything is understood. So we know exactly what we're doing. But I can tell you, in spite of all the stuff, the real thing is you're gonna step into the unknown. So there comes an aspect where you're just trusting in the infinite, not only infinite as out there, but infinity as in here. You're trusting in that aspect of you, making a leap and after that you're dissolving to infinity. Never to be seen again in the way that you used to be. Then all you can do is appear like you're still there, appear like you're a radiant representative of the infinite. This is such a profound point as the dance, the dance that we do back to this very undefinable as we merge and you end up uniting and you end up dissolving the person identity and rather what you end up being is you end up being a pure firework in service to the infinite, to the one intelligence, not in service to an egoic layer of person conditioning. That's the difference. You don't just completely, oh, Suresh has disappeared completely. You stay in this reality, but you become a pure steward to the one intelligence rather than to that layer of conditioning. Yes, exactly, exactly. And there's no templates or any such thing for that. It simply is whatever it is. It can look very different. So we don't want to be too rigid about what that looks like. It'll look very different. You just have to trust it and honor how it's happening for you. Yes. It reminds me a lot of the Sufi metaphysics which is it's wadattalujud, which is the unity of all finding. And so as Suresh pointed out a moment ago is that every single one of the sparks of the infinite is going to have its own unique taste and style of yoga, of union. And so that's why as much as we make this road map of awakening that it's great because it's the meta pattern of what are the most sort of common trajectories and how to avoid the crevices and all this good type of stuff. Yet at the same time, just know that you're gonna have your own unique taste and flavor of union. Yes, yes. And characteristic that'll serve you well is humility. Humility is not about having a humble mannerism or any such thing. Humility is constantly recognizing a deeper truth and yielding to that and letting go of what you thought truth was yesterday because we have a tendency to calcify around our understanding of truth. You're like, I got it, I did it. Now I'm gonna hang on to this. Well, tomorrow you're to let it go. Because you are face-to-face with a more refined truth. This is humility to let it go, to let it go, to let it go, constantly, constantly. And so this yielding is really what results in flow. See, flow doesn't happen by you making it happen, right? Flow is you're fully there and you're constantly in touch and yielding, constantly yielding, yielding to infinity. Gilding to infinity, yielding to truth, pure being. That is true humility. It's not about hanging on to some concept of what that looks like, right? We tend to think of in terms of personas and things like that. This has nothing to do with a persona. It's a quality of your being. I love that definition. That's a really good one. Humility is continuously yielding to the truth, deepening. And like you indicated, it becomes a quality of being that's such a mission critical. That's when it's embodied. That's the last step. When it's embodied, it has become a quality of being. Yes, fantastic. Perfect. Fantastic, yes. There was a lot of great, a lot of great ground covered there. So again, the just be, transform your life and live as infinity. The link is in the bio below and it's right there as well. If you want to see, this is on the link. Yes, there it is. Links in the bio below. And again, as we said, swim in infinity, the invitation to jump in, splash in the light. You can never be apart from the infinite. Yoga, mysticism is simply the union with the absolute. The three steps, transcendence, integration, embodiment and recognizing the so-called pathless path that we speak of. Infinity in the fields of light, the very source, light, energy, matter, physical. You are the source of awareness and realities. And the good old thank you rocks, suffering is catalyst for your awakening, humility continuously yielding to the truth deepening. So many great profound wisdoms with Suresh on the show. Thank you. Thank you. It's, it's as I suspected, this is a total delight and sure enough covered a lot of ground. But thanks to you, great, great dialogue and questions and commentary. And that, I know doesn't just happen. It's due to your inner work over many, many years. So thank you for doing that, for sharing the way you've been sharing and for giving me an opportunity to share some of my thoughts. And likewise, right back at you with the inner work that's been done in order to, for you to be able to share actually like you said before, we started that the seeking process typically also comes with the sharing once one has found. And so it's beautiful that you've been able to share in such a way that gives a map to the pathless path that can very much deeply resonate with those that are seeking to heal their confusion. And that's why we brought you on and that's why there was such a good tennis between us because we're both so passionate about exactly that. Beautiful. Thank you again. And thank you to all the viewers for hanging in there and splashing the light with us wish you well. Exactly. Yeah, thanks everyone for tuning in. We're so grateful. Thank you. We would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on the episode. Do let us know how you feel. Check out the links in the bio below up to Suresh's website also to the book link on Amazon is down there and also if the video brought you value give it a like it helps the algorithm subscribe if you haven't yet to the channel and share the video with other people that you feel like this would profoundly resonate with. We love you so much. Thank you for tuning in and let's wrap the episode. I will end the broadcast and we'll stay here in the studio room. Thank you everyone. Thanks for your awesome.