 We have lost 2,000 ballot boxes, 399 voting cubicles, 24 generators, to the recent attack on INAIC offices, says INAIC chairman Mahmoud Yacoubou. And tonight on Civic Education we discuss the Commonwealth calling for free, fair and transparent elections in Nigeria. And there is no plan to increase pump price of petrol, says federal government, as queues spread across the country. This is Plus Politics, I am Mary Anacol. The Independent National Electoral Commission, INAIC, has restated the commission would recover from the recent attacks on its facilities. Well, the INAIC chairman, Professor Mahmoud Yacoubou, made this disclosure on Tuesday while speaking at a retreat to Organite for resident electoral commissioners in Nigeria. Now the INAIC boss had, however, charged the RECs to be professional in their duties. Also, the Commonwealth Enterprise and Investment Council has called on Nigeria's government to ensure free and transparent general elections in 2023 in order for them to sustain and strengthen democratic governance in the country. The call was made by the deputy chairman of the Commonwealth's EIC, Lord Swear. In an interview with journalist in Lagos where he described Nigeria as one of the great nations in the Commonwealth. Well, joining us to discuss this and more is George Ashiru, he is the ADC Chairman in Lagos State and, of course, Jude Ohanele, who is the Programme's Director of Development Dynamics. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for joining us tonight. Good evening, everyone. Good evening. Thank you for joining us. Let me start with you, Mr. Ashiru, because you are a party man. Now these attacks, these consistent attacks on INAIC offices, of course, it didn't start today. We've seen this happen in previous, you know, before previous elections and now it's repeating itself. These, this obviously are cases of asin. And I was talking to somebody today and I said these are not, these acts have not been perpetrated by non-Nigerians. These are Nigerians perpetrating these acts against Nigerians. What do you think is at the core of these continuous asin cases across the Federation, especially targeted at INAIC offices? It's very important that these things are happening. But in recent memory, I'm sure we remember that they're also attacking. And there's a lot of impunity and security and judicial system. That is why individuals can have the courage to attack federal entities. And so that speaks a lot about the federal government's ability, the right kind of environment for free and free elections. So if the government cannot protect it, how can they protect the electorates? That's a very important question and that the presidents and state governors in the affected state have the answers most unfortunately. So also be tied to some of the unrest that have been taking place across the states because states like a boy have been dealing with a recent uprise and this spreads across some parts of the southeast. I mean, could it be unconnected to what things are happening in those areas? Again, like you have said, governors need to be called to question. But then there are those who say that INAIC offices need to be more secured, knowing that the things or rather the equipments that we need to use for the elections are housed in these INAIC offices and therefore there needs to be more security than what we have. Do you also hold that opinion? So definitely, I mean, look at major states. We have several INAIC offices located in look at government offices. Now look at government offices, citizens are allowed to come in. And so how do you secure the INAIC facility within such a look at government? And so these are examples of what we're saying. You know, INAIC in itself and the federal government has to make sure that INAIC offices have standalone buildings with the right kind of security, protect them like embassies, because at this juncture of our democracy, it's the independence of INAIC and the safety of its facilities and its staff that is going to guarantee us the kind of elections we're looking for. And so that is indeed the responsibility of the humble government at its security, the gaffness of the cause or the circumstances around it. OK, let me let me come to you, Mr. Hanaleh, you work with civil society and your job is more like that of a town crier. And sometimes you also have to face up with government. Let's talk about Mr. Hanaleh. I think that we lost that connection with you. So sorry. Let me come back to you, George. The most painful for most people is the recent one in a Boeing state. A lot of staff were also attacked in that facility. Thank goodness that INAIC is saying that they will recover most of these things. But we've also heard cases where voters cards have been involved and we know the time frame that we have between now and the election season already. INAIC has to deal with, you know, balancing the register, making sure that certain people who are having issues, you know, find one way or the other to address it so that they can get an opportunity to vote. And then there are those who do not want to hear from INAIC who are saying you're disenfranchising us, you're not giving us an opportunity to vote, knowing that so many people want to be part and parcel of this election. How easy will it be for INAIC to be able to bounce back, even though Professor Mahmoud Yacoubou is giving us some hope here, but how hopeful is that hope that he's giving? It's difficult to have answers to all of that. INAIC will have answers to that. It's a performance evaluation issue now. They have a framework for performance. And they do not promise things at all, API. So the ability to provide the required privileges to every something that will be addressed in some way of the INAIC challenge and this election. So I'm going to presume that they intend to provide agencies in time for the election to everyone concerned. Otherwise, then we don't really have a democracy if people are not allowed to exercise the franchise through the TV scenes. So for now, I will talk to them at such a time that it's not clear to us that INAIC is not able to deliver. I promise. OK, I think we have Mr. Hanaleh back. Mr. Hanaleh, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Perfect. Now, I was asking a question because you work with civil society and your job is already cut out for you. There's a lot that you've seen on the ground if you have been observing elections in different places. Talking about the recent rise in ASEN and attack of INAIC offices, what do you think informs this psyche? Because I'm trying to understand why anybody who's asking for good governance who wants to turn around in the state of things? Why those same people would want to destroy INAIC offices and their facilities knowing that the elections are right around the corner? And what do you think or who do you think are the people who would benefit from these attacks? Well, unfortunately, I don't see anybody benefiting from these attacks. They are most unfortunate. I do understand and appreciate that so many people in Nigeria are so aggrieved and so annoyed. But then... So how are they? It does appear that they're wrong because actors will not solve our problems in this country. And it is very important that people do understand that very clearly that there is no need to continue to destroy all of the infrastructure and the facilities that INAIC has put in place over the years for improvement in our elections. You know, unfortunately, the country has really been run so badly that so many groups are aggrieved. So many people are totally disconnected from the system. But then violence will not solve the problem. We should rather focus on how to use the electoral process to correct some of these problems. Why the quick resort to violence most of the time? Like, I mean, the whole country watched in awe when hoodlums took over after the end-size debacle. We saw that they were attacking businesses. They were attacking normal people. And then I'm thinking to myself, why do we always resort to this violence against ourselves as opposed to looking for ways to better address the issue? Because it seems like it's the easiest way to go. We see this happening time and time again. What informs that psyche attacking ourselves when we're not even necessarily the problem? Yeah, I mean, that is the product of the solution. You know, we live in a country that has been impoverished by the political elite. You know, the people who are supposed to leave this country are right, are the ones that have impoverished this country beyond imagination. So you see a situation where the people are really not thinking rationally. You know, a lot of people are in very dire stress of life that they only resort to violence, unfortunately. But the reality is that this violence will not help us by any means or in any direction, positively. So it is something we need to begin to address. And my hope is that we're able to have this 2023 election and then elect people who have something in their head to offer who can begin the process of reconciling this country. There are so many aggrieved entities. There are so many people are excluded because the country has been run as an estate of a few privileged individuals who have taken advantage of the system and have messed up the entire economy. Nothing works really. I mean, all the sectors of the economy are almost dead. And you see what's happening in the financial sector where the value of the Naira was almost falling was having a free fall. So there are a lot of challenges in the system. But unfortunately, people are reacting using violence. And unfortunately for us, that violence cannot lead us anywhere. It will even worsen the scenario. And that's why it's important that we're able to let our people understand this so that people can pull back and pull away from violence and focus on the redevelopmental issues we need to work on. And one of the major steps forward is to have credible elections where we're able to. I'm going to quickly come in there. The leaders who are going to be swept away. I'm going to quickly come in there. Again, as civil society, lots and lots of conversations are being had. We're seeing town halls here and there. But yes, people want to hear what politicians have to say, but how well informed are the people themselves to make these choices? Because I've spoken with people and they say, oh, well, people are more used to certain political parties and that's what they always look out for. So it's always between the big political parties and not necessarily the other political parties. And what's the amount of information do we have out there? Because it seems like every election cycle we're always having conversations leading up to the election. But which of these conversations are targeted at the audience, are targeted at the people, even the simple man, to understand the nitty-gritty of the electoral process and the politicking that's within it? Yeah, of course, that remains our national challenge. And luckily for us, we also have a few candidates in this election who are talking very reasonably, who seem to understand the challenges and are looking at solutions rather than name calling and much slinging. You know, the reality is that everybody who is an adult understands that we are in a mess. I mean, the economy is totally down. You know, security is totally combative situation and all that. So nobody need to tell an average man that this country is in any need of help. And the idea is that we hope that the politicians who are running will need to communicate their hope and let our people understand that there will be some level of support at the end of the road and that at the end of the day that we are going to be able to come out of this whole problem. And it's very possible. What we need is strategic leadership governed by people who have something in their head and who believe that we are their fellow human beings and that they should treat us the way they want to be treated. Forget those kind of people in office who will be able to move. And I think that is what Nigerians need at the moment. And my sense is that that is what Nigerians are looking for. Let me come to you, Mr. Ashuru. Same question, but I'm going to ask it differently. Every time I've had the INEC voter education commissioner in the studio with me, I always ask the question, is it just INEC's job to educate the populace? Is it just the job of the media? But I always get the same answer. Political parties, the owners is on political parties to also educate people who they want to vote for them so that they understand what they're getting into. But do you think that political parties are doing, in fact, how well do you think political parties are doing in this regard? As to making sure that the people who they want votes from are as educated enough in terms of voting for them to be able to cast their votes, or is it the other way around? And why do you think that is? Thank you very much. Historically, in Nigeria, what has happened in the past is that the kind of democracy we practice has been restricted to people who didn't know. You've had, for example, in those things where all the nothingers would vote a particular party because so-and-so classes represented them. And those are the subways, you know, in a certain way. And what would be the last thing? A solid movement. But they were talking about issues. They were talking about politics. They don't believe what we're supposed to do. But they didn't give enough democracy that we were hoping to achieve. And so that is difficult. People back then changed their practices. Mr. Shu, I think we're losing the connection with you. It's very difficult for us to hear. You are going to try to fix that and then maybe allow you to answer the question. But I'm going to come back again to Ohanele. Ohanele, let's talk about the commonwealth calling for free, fair and transparent elections. The last elections I witnessed was the Anambari election. And I must tell you, I saw very interesting things that gave me some hope. But I can't say the same for Ohshun and, of course, AKT elections. But when we talk about free, transparent elections, have we necessarily scratched the surface of free elections, less alone, transparent? Sure, we are headed in that direction. And that's, of course, you know, it was a stand-alone election. And because of that, all resources of state were deployed to those locations. And that is why we got the results. I mean, in terms of process, we tried from the period of Professor Tehiru Jega in Ainec when they started reforming the system on the basis of impute from civil society. Our electoral process in terms of reparations, in terms of technology, has continued to improve reasonably. And although we have a lot more work to do, but the reality is that with the current electoral act, which has empowered Ainec to use more technology and with the technology that is available that has been tried in Anambara and was tried in Akiti and Osho, if Ainec is able to deploy that across the country effectively and the citizens are willing to cooperate, then we're gonna have something that is going to be an improvement on the past elections. And that is what we are looking for. That is actually the minimum we can give ourselves. But you know, for us to get that, we need to have all stakeholders playing their role. Ainec will have to be able to be ready on time, deploy effectively. The voters will have to be able to conduct themselves in very civil and polite manner to cast their votes, wait around, get the votes counted, and after that have the result uploaded. That is one of the major achievements we have gotten in this, our electoral process. The issue of publishing the election results, polling unit by polling unit. That was a major advocacy program of development dynamics for seven years with Ainec. Insisting that the model of publishing results based on words does not give the voter the opportunity to see the raw score they generated in the polling units. But now results are being published unit by unit by law. And those results are to be uploaded immediately so that even when there are issues of electoral processes or tampering with the result, citizens can looking at the polling unit result confirm whether this is exactly what they got or it was manipulated. So there are some improvements that we need to hold on to. And if the citizens mobilize effectively as we are also mobilizing them, talking to everybody and do the right things, we should be able to have a very free and credible election in 2023 to be able to elect the people that can govern us from May next year. Great. I think we have George Ashubak. George, before you went on the break, you were trying to tell us the responsibilities that political parties have in educating their voters. Yes, can you hear me better now? Yes, I can. Okay. So I've said that historically, when we were introduced to the idea of democracy, we trusted our rulers and leaders to tell us how to vote. Because the level of voter education around principles and policies was quite low from 1960. And I think the intervention of the military in our national development has made it difficult for people to grow from childhood into the context or the concept of democracy. So what political parties are doing is attempting to change a stronghold, attempting to change a system where we're used to, a few people deciding who we should vote for and which party we should vote for based on cultural, ideological identity. And that's the difficult thing to overcome. And you know, so even though you talk to people all the time, they will ask questions like, oh, is a person from this particular part of the country, does he speak a language? They don't even ask about the issues. They are both from who the person comes from, how much did they have, how much has he done in my society, and what is he going to do for the nation or for the state of my constituency? I have a lot of that. Again, it's a generational thing. I think we now have a generation that is asking questions, they won't change. And that's what's driving the particular elections. You know, the answers have shown us that the ex and the generations are asking questions. They want to be a problem. And they want to decide the narrative. And I think that came at the time. But unfortunately, it's what we inherited that has affected the level of participation of previous elections. Is there a willingness somewhere up there lurking within the people and within political parties to change the status quo? Because we all keep saying that 2023 elections is going to be a watershed moment. It's going to be the make or break. But this is what we mostly say for every election cycle. But then how willing are we to make some of these things that we're saying come to fruition? That's why I ask, is there a willingness for things to really change out there outside of those who are, you know, the Commonwealth of Nigeria, the whole of Nigeria and the young people who are starting movements outside of those people, within the political parties, the big wigs and the strong men, is there that same willingness for things to change? Well, think about the issues that we have. Who does it take to set up a political party? Who are the people that set up political parties? And what are the resources required to run elections? You will discover that again, it's still the same, less than 1% of the population that have fought to go through this whole process. And so the kindness they bring forth by repetition of the same thing we're trying to run away from, you know? So nothing changes. And so people are left with a little choice but to vote for what's available and not vote at all. And that's why we have voter apathy. In Lagos, about the 8% of the registered voters don't even vote at all. That's important in the country. And that's because of apathy. That's because people can't vote. Because they see all of the parties at, you know, two and a half, and at one point, they're more or less the same thing. Same type of country, same issues, same principles, and that change can only come when there's a transformational figure or transformational party and ideas in government that would draw people. People come out of their seats and say, okay, now that's something I can connect to. That's a candidate I can connect to. That's someone saying something that's different from the student's core. And like I said, it's a generational change and that paradigm is beginning to happen in. However, a real statistic still tells us that over 60% of people under the age of 30 still don't intend to vote. And so if they don't vote and they consider the largest block of voters, how will the change come? How will it come? And so those are the big questions we have to ask ourselves. Why is there voter apathy? Is it security? Is it correct intimidation? Is it a feeling that the children are not going to be free and fair? Is it the idea that it's decided already? You know, the power that be with the status quo does not want change. Those are the questions that our candidates are trying to answer to get them to get out of their seats and vote next year. Okay. Back to you, Ohanele. A very interesting question. Because with the challenges that INEC is facing, I mean, they're mounting up in front of them on a daily. What are your worries? Because many people have expressed worries and concern about insecurity, the flooding. Now, of course, the arson. What glimmer of hope is out there for the average voter to come out and cast their vote for the change that they desire? What would you say to the average Nigerian who's somewhat seated on the fence right now? Yeah, those seated on the fence, we need to leave the fence and move in the positive direction. I mean, we have no other option on societies around the world that have passed through this kind of phases. And the idea is that the more you continue to improve on your processes, the better for you. And there is no other way to select those who will lead us other than having those they will lead. You know, select them and it's through election. Any other means is going to be by a few other, by a few people making this election for all of us, which will be tantamount to creating an authoritarian state and dictatorial state. So election remains the major tool to re-engineer every society periodically. And that is why it is provided for constitutionally and after a while, you need to change leadership because we'll continue to do that until we recruit those who have the capacity to help us. So there is no need sitting on the fence when it comes to this election. And I'm quite optimistic that we watch this on ground. Usually all over the world, the record duty of INEC will be to make sure that electoral materials are brought into the polling unit, which is what we use to gauge the performance of INEC. And that is why we are also calling on INEC to make sure they do all they can. They have all this time after the last election in 2019 to prepare for this 2023 election, we're not going to get to accept any excuse from them. Let them deploy effectively. With this new resident electoral commissioners, they have just appointed and sworn in. A few of them parties and we are worried really because the only way these recent electoral commissioners can mess up our electoral process is by intentionally doing ineffective deployment of voting materials. And we hope that nobody will try that with this country. And that is also why it's important as you noted that our brothers and sisters in the common world have weighed in to add their voices because no country is an island and that everybody, every stakeholder will have to do their duty, including the INEC officials, to make sure that electoral materials are deployed on time effectively across the country. And then of course, when that happens, the voters will take over because there is little or nothing INEC could do in the polling unit because you have just two or three polling officials. It is not the conduct of the voters that determines the outcome in every polling unit. And we hope and pray and demand that the voters conduct themselves very well so that we can have very good elections and upload early. Well, I mean, there's no better way to put it, but I want to say thank you. Jada Shiru is the ADC chairman in Lagos State and Judo Hanile is the programs director development dynamics. Thank you so much gentlemen for being part of this conversation. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. All right, thank you for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. When we return, we'll be talking about the fuel scarcity and as queues spread across the nation, what is the federal government doing to ameliorate the sufferings of the average Nigerian stay with us.