 When your idea started to get traction amongst your colleagues and your friends and your family members Do you remember that time? What was it that you did at that time that that made them start to say? Hang on a second. Maybe Samuel has got a good idea going on like that. What was it that happened there? Yeah, it took them a long time It's such an abstract concept a museum of failure that is so that's aimed towards you know The communicating the message that we need to accept failure for for for innovation It's so abstract. So I I understand that people find it difficult to grasp and Then what was it? I mean I? Just knew that I had to get this this crazy idea out of my head And if I didn't if I just start if I just talked about it people who just think I was crazy more crazy But I knew I had to get it in I do execute it I Mean it is difficult when you have a vision I'm just gonna read cut this. I just want to make it say it one more time, and then just we can edit it It's difficult for to have a vision I say I mean it's it's something That's a that's the same experience for any any leader right that has a vision they have to communicate it they can't Execute their vision alone. They need their whole team Understand and to accept that vision and to get excited about it and join you in the journey Yeah, and that's a communication problem So if you can solve that if you can get people to understand and sort of back your vision Then then it can it can happen. Was there anybody at that point that that came out as a case Hamil? Let me help you with this. I was a sort of an unexpected Supporter it was the Swedish state the state Yeah, so the Swedish state has an innovation fund and they fund different innovation projects So early on in the project. I was like I can't this is gonna cost a lot of money that I don't have And they I mean it's a state organization, you know slow You know they got the idea and they got it and they're like this is awesome, and they funded it quite generously as well So without them it would never have happened. All right of all the how many collections do you have right now in your museum? Yeah, no, but I can guess We have in the Swedish exhibit. Let's open now. I think there's about 80 Failed product services objects right and then in Los Angeles the exhibit was in Los Angeles. That's now moving to Shanghai There's over a hundred So somewhere I mean just under 200. Yeah, but there's a lot of overlaps. So let's say a hundred and thirty or something like that is anyone amongst what those many Exhibits that you have in your museum that really stands out and has a special place for So one of my favorites It's because it's kind of funny and it also serve very well illustrates innovation failure so Procter and Gamble one of the world's biggest consumer product companies the United States in 1996 they developed or they launched the Most fantastic product on earth which is called o'lestra Okay, let me say yeah O'lestra is was is a calorie-free fat substitute Sounds good. It's not good. It's amazing. Yeah, it's a revolution It's it's an it's a new product or substance That was you could make potato chips out of it out of it So you could that you could that you could eat as many as you wanted to without getting fat Guilt free potato. Yeah, actually Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually their slogan was 100% satisfaction 0% guilt. Wow. Okay. Why did it feel? Yeah? so The problem with these this o'lestra Was that there was a small side effect? Okay, diarrhea That's So sure you didn't get fat from eating of the other chips, but you had to sit on the toilet the entire day So and I think it's I think it's a beautiful example because it's kind of I mean diarrhea is kind of funny I mean in that sense But it illustrates how even the biggest companies with the biggest resource the greatest resources Can can fail in product development? And also how you can never I mean you can ever do enough testing you can't do enough to understand your product exactly And then I mean the fact that it's something that everybody can relate to Food also makes it interesting. So that's one of the sort of fun interesting ones And then there's my favorite sort of stories Which one of them would be Kodak? You're familiar with the company Kodak. Yes, they used to make Films yeah cameras exactly the emphasis on used to make used to me because they're bankrupt now. That's right. So Kodak was the sort of the I mean it was it was iconic company The best engineers the most money prestige they had it all They actually invented the digital camera in the 1970s. That's all long time and Yeah, so What happened was they actually Neglected sort of they didn't start developing the digital camera because they thought it was it would threaten their their film Yeah, they made all their money selling film Okay, so fast forward Decades and the rest of the world was catching up and they're like, okay Let's start making digital cameras. So they did and they were the best at it. You follow me so far Okay, so but they're like, hmm Let's sell digital cameras and make our money selling film paper What Yeah, so when they sold their cameras they they saw The digital and digital cameras as a way to sell more photo paper Does that make I mean now in retrospect? It makes doesn't make any sense So what actually happened with Kodak is you know pretty soon there's cameras in our in our cell phones It's everywhere. Nobody prints photos photos anymore Kodak goes bankrupt The interesting thing about Kodak is that everything they had the knowledge that the the ins the inside did the tech skills They had it all But they couldn't they were not flexible with their business model. So it's not about technology It's about if they would have changed or been innovative About their business model. They could have changed instead of making money on photo paper Which was going nowhere. They could have changed that and made money off maybe Sharing photos like Instagram does Or or any other number of ways to to generate revenue It's a long story. So I don't really tell it that often because it takes so much time to explain But it's it's an interesting story to show that We have to be that innovation has to occur in every aspect of a company