 Thank you very much, Josue. Thank you to the panelists for being here. Thank you to this audience for your interest in this topic. I want to start with the first question to the panelists that also allows everyone to sort of be positioned with or to understand your position in the supply chain and the perspective that you're bringing to the audience. So the first question is going down the line. Could you introduce yourself and your organization to this audience by telling us, what is the business case for sustainability that you see amongst the clients and the companies that you work with? Sure. So great to be here. My name is Jason Berryhill, and I'm the co-founder of Whole Chain. We are a traceability solution for traceability and transparency for everything from small-skilled farms to large consumer brands to big retail. And that question, we deal a lot in responsible sourcing. And so I guess probably I have a different lens than some others that are in a different position in the supply chain. But I asked a similar question to one of our customers at Wegmans, their seafood category manager. And I was asking something along those lines, what is the business case for sustainability? And his answer was, well, if you walk into a Wegmans and you go into the restroom, it's going to be really clean. And he goes, we didn't do a business calculation on that. We just felt like that was the best thing for our customers. And he said, the same thing goes with responsible sourcing. It's not like we're going to have a premium product where we feel like it's responsible. It's just the right thing for our customers. And I guess the answer to that question, then, from my perspective and the customers we deal with, is a lot of them it's table stakes now. And it might have been something where it was a calculation in years past and it's become not so much a calculation anymore. So. Excellent. Thank you, Rachel. Hi, I'm Rachel Schwabach with CH Robinson. And so we are one of the most connected logistics platforms around the world. I would say what we do every day is work in the transportation side. So we're working with tens, hundreds of thousands of customers and carrier partners. We don't own the assets. We don't own ships and trucks and move the things that we work with partners around the world to do that. And so when we're talking to our shippers or our carrier partners about why it matters to them, I think, Josue spoke to many of the kind of broad categories. He said it in a much cooler accent than my Minnesotan accent. But I think it comes down to my Minnesotan accent. Ken, we'll come out soon. You'll hear my o's. It's about competitive advantage. So some of it is becoming table stakes. But I think there certainly is still competitive advantage when it comes to this for a lot of our shippers. It's about risk management, which you also talked about. And then it's about cost savings and finding efficiency. So those are kind of the general pieces. I think the thing that's really interesting about having a super broad base of shippers and carriers is who those stakeholders that are driving that when it comes to what the risk management looks like or especially on the competitive advantage side, the stakeholders vary a lot. So that could be the direct consumer. That could be their investors that they're talking to. That could be other businesses. And we'll get into a lot of that. But I think there's kind of a broad base of where that's coming from. But at the end of the day, what it is the stakeholders care about this a lot more and the demand and the expectations are increasing. Thank you. Shannon. Thank you. I'm Shannon Batten. I am the CEO of Delterra. We are an anomaly in this group because we're a non-profit. We actually build recycling and waste management ecosystems in the global south. So today we work in Argentina, Indonesia, and Brazil with the goal of trying to build things that are or systems that are scalable and replicable globally. And when I talk about an ecosystem, what I'm talking about is everything from designing packaging so that it is more recyclable, better designed packaging using less materials and better materials all the way through to training households, how to separate and why to separate, why they should be motivated to change their behavior in their homes through to all of the efficiencies in the operations of collection and recollection and recycling and then also ensuring that there is a market to off-take that material at the end of the day at a fair price that represents the cost to recover that material so that the whole system is stabilized. We are founded by McKinsey and Company, so our underpinning everything that we do is always a good business case. But we also are increasingly being funded by a lot of retailers and CPG companies. We have players like P&G and Amcor and Mars and also companies like Walmart who are interested in where does the packaging that they put out into the environment go and how do they recover it. And the reason that that is of importance and these days one of the things that or the material that most people are specifically interested in, most companies are specifically interested in is plastics packaging. Plastics packaging drives about 17% of petrochemical production these days and that is a growing number so it is also continuing to grow the demand for petrochemicals and the extraction of those petrochemicals and many corporates are now making commitments about recovering their packaging and then also incorporating more recycled material into their systems. But the recycling system is not functioning very well especially in many countries that don't even really have strong waste management systems and so they're particularly interested in working with us to figure out how to recover that material, bring it back into their supply chains. So we're the sort of reverse logistics piece of it as we work with them. Excellent, thank you and Josue since we're colleagues we're going to make it harder for you. So if I summarize what I heard, I hear consumer expectation, competitive advantage, system stability, brand reputation, cost recovery. You've done a lot of projects with North American firms, European firms but you also work a lot in the Lyft lab with other companies from around the world. Is it the same reasons that you hear the companies come to do sustainability research as the ones that have been articulated so far or what else do you see as why people might be interested in engaging with UN research projects? I believe there is always pressure as well. It's also fair to say that some companies when they were created they were thinking on sustainability dimensions since inception but not the majority, the vast majority are in the business because they want to create value and at the same time also gain some profits. So suddenly there is the risks, there are things happening and then they say well we need to do something about it. And those that at least have approaches in the last, it has been different ways. Ten years ago it was just the first exercise for those that thought that might be really a risk. It was really the minority but they thought there is a market shift happening. This is 2010-11. Let's conduct the first carbon footprint the LCA analysis, this was very famous trying to put something on the labels. Then later start changing. We saw also because of the situations that some NGOs detected in some big companies. The sweatshops for instance which was a big deal and other issues. Then the social side became important looking at projects related to traceability, visibility, where things are coming from which we just detected how complex a supply chain was. And this actually by the way tracked down to many of the emerging economies in which we've done a lot of research. Some of those are not really related to sustainability but they are actually giving a lot of the components or raw materials for any organization in the world. And then now what I saw is that I remember probably seven years ago it started at least to the best of my knowledge maybe a little bit earlier. Companies are starting really being very ambitious with their carbon reduction goals. They said now we have the climate pledge we have like I don't remember 13 I should know this one but all the United Nations sustainability goals and we are going to just have indicators for all of them and let's just go for it. And it reminds me a lot now talking about the packaging we actually did a project with that recently with Dell a couple of students work on this project rotation and scan. And what I remember of the project is that they moved like they were trying to use more recycled material for packaging. So if we use more recycled material they were having actually a clear goal for recycled material. And then what happened is that by changing the composition of the materials by using more recycled material they actually change also the dimensions and weight of the package which in turn also affected the whole logistics operations. So they were actually increasing carbon emissions while at the same time they were reducing packaging. So we realized that there is a connectivity between also the sustainability goals and now what I see happening is that they try to find more systemic approaches to really solve all the problems. There is more intentions to understand like we already did what was very clear to reduce or achieve our goals. What's next? How do we build a roadmap that is going to get us there? And also understanding the financials. The financials should be always there. There is always a business case as you say. So we need to look at this every time that we come up with any idea at least in the research side as well. So I see questions coming in. So if you have questions to the panel please submit those and we'll get to those towards the end of the questions that I asked this group. Let me be a little bit of a jerk and self-promoting at the same time for a second. So one of the things that we also do at CTL is our annual state of supply chain sustainability report. We've put the QR code up in case you want to read more about that and that's something that we've done with Rachel now for a few years. I bring that question up next in terms to engage in supply chain sustainability. The fastest growing topic is investors but the second and that didn't come up in this so you're welcome to comment on that but the one I really want to get to the brass tax of is no one said the government's making me do this. I feel like at least in some of our work some of the compulsion act comes from regulation. So I wonder if each of you could speak to regulation that you think is most impactful as far as your companies engage in supply chain sustainability and maybe even more importantly for the topic of this audience what's coming down the pike that people need to be aware of as far as sustainability regulation. Whoever's most excited can go first. I love regulations. I am really excited. There's always one. I'll start with that. We in our prep call we're kind of talking I think all three of us have very different ways that we're looking at this and for our clients that we're working with is anything related to carbon reporting. So I touched on a number of these but whether that comes out of the EU and CSRD the corporate sustainability reporting directive whether that is what may likely be coming from the SEC soon or what's coming out of California and likely some states shortly after that. All of those are requirements for companies to be on their scope three emissions so they are upstream and you're downstream carbon emissions. So that's huge and I think it kind of starts it's easy to say oh that's happening in Europe that's kind of the first ones you usually hear about we don't really operate in Europe we don't have to worry about it. Then you move to the US and all of a sudden the SEC is on this and so you go okay well we're not publicly traded so I'm not quite as worried about it. Well guess what California it doesn't matter if you're public or private as long as you are operating in California or a billion in revenue annually you're also going to be falling under that so there's going to be lovers that are being pushed and even if that isn't your company as someone who is a company that is likely working with other companies that fall within this you're going to have a knock on your door soon and the question is going to be what are my emissions when I work with you in whatever the way that is within my supply chain and how can you prove to me that that data is something that I can then submit formally to our government and feel that it is kind of auditable because not only are there more regulations coming down the pike but also that whole concept of greenwashing and the amount of scrutiny that's being put on this data and any kind of sustainability claims is skyrocketing as well. So the carbon emissions is big ones others kind of related to that are things coming around California with the clean fleet and clean trucks and so that's going to be forcing for zero emissions vehicles that's another whole conversation we can talk about later but yeah anything really carbon related there's a lot coming and it's going to be touching Sculpt 3. Jason and Shannon you come from different worlds but imagine there's some regulation in your minds too. We're seeing a lot in EU deforestation regulation so the EUDR it impacts a lot of different like really base commodities you know beef and leather coming out of Brazil and soy. If you turn a grocery store upside down about 60% of what hits the ceiling is probably going to be related in some capacity to the soy supply chain. It's in a lot of the feeds it's in a number of different elements and so you know needing to be able to trace some of these materials now all the way back to their you know in the case of cattle to their birth farms in the case of soy you know back to the farms where they're harvested and be able to demonstrate where brands that's not specifically related to sustainability is FISMA 204 so the Food Safety Modernization Act will 204 I don't know how many people are familiar with that but it's around high risk food categories needing to ultimately have you know a similar lens of traceability going back to the farm or boat and what we're seeing is a lot of brands are using that even though it's specifically related to food safety a lot of brands are using that as a means to gather more sustainability data through their supply chain because it already has to happen there's different actors now collecting data they're connecting it to their traceability law code and now they can use that as a means to get more ESG data about their sourcing so well so if I start with the packaging front there are some really interesting things happening in the regulatory space the two big ones are extended producer responsibility and the UN plastic treaty that is being negotiated right now so extended producer responsibility I assume most of people in this room know about that but it's basically it's gaining huge traction at national levels and at state levels in the US and what it basically does is requires that people pay or the companies pay for the type of packaging they're putting in the ecosystem with the idea that that money then goes to recovering that packaging back it's specifically focused on plastic usually and of course the devil is in the details of the design as it is with every regulatory approach you know some countries are doing this better than others it was born in Germany and Europe and some countries are creating situations where there's a lot of sort of perverse incentives that are created around this and it's not clear where the money goes in other places it's pretty clear where the money goes but it's not being used very strategically in the system and some places it's working quite well so that's the extended producer responsibility the UN plastics treaty that is being negotiated even this year and is supposed to be finalized by next year is a is still a little bit unclear exactly what it will have in it it may have some banning of certain materials or certain uses of materials there's some conversation around certain toxic chemicals that may or may not be allowed in certain plastics the hope is that there is some guidance especially to countries that don't have good waste management systems on how and what they should be doing with their waste especially that waste containing plastic there's a lot of informal burning still out in the world even in Michigan where I'm from my neighbors often will burn their waste on the side of the road in the rural areas so we're still waiting to see what that will hold but it is a very exciting treaty that is being informed by similar climate change treaties and hopefully will avoid some of the same mistakes that previous treaties have had and then the other piece in the waste space is there isn't regulation around this but there's a growing understanding of the implications of methane emissions which come from organic waste going into landfills so even in the United States most or many landfills have methane capture that's then put back into power generation or at least flared into carbon dioxide it's still a third highest producer of methane in the United States so you can imagine in other countries that don't have those types of technologies that's often even higher and methane is a greenhouse gas that is shorter lived in the environment but 80 times more potent than CO2 and so as we realize that we are not anywhere close to our emissions reductions that we need to accomplish there's this increased focus on keeping methane out of the environment because of its higher potency to gain us a little bit of time upfront and I would not be surprised if we saw some regulation around that coming Excellent and I hear you talking about it I hear one of the things that struck me right away is we hear about regulations coming out of the European Union the United Nations and Rachel brought up California it reminded me one of my favorite authors on the topic Daniel Jurgen once wrote the California Air Resources Board has always punched above its weight and I think we still see that being true that there's perhaps an inordinate amount of power coming out of certain parts of the world and we see that in our survey work too and I want to pitch this to Josue so when we looked at where pressure comes from a lot of it we see from regulators and we look at where that turns into zero goals we see it heavily in the United States in Europe but not as much in Latin America and I know you do lots of work with both your research labs in Latin America could you comment on is regulatory pressure part of the sustainability movement in Mexico and Latin America or is the drive coming from somewhere else do you think I I will say that there is no drive on sustainability I would say right like in general of course many countries in Latin America including in Mexico I'm Mexican in case you were wondering actually they are part of the Paris Accord they actually are having some sort of programs also inspired by many of the things that are happening in smart way, EPA so these things happen right so we know it's there but even when you consider the program that also for instance Mexico is part of the cap and trade systems you know you see the prices of the carbon which is also another topic it's extremely low let's say compared to what you see in European nations I believe the drive comes because of multinational company so when you look at the context of Latin America I actually like a study it was published a few years ago but it's actually from McKinsey Global Institute that says I believe it's something like the a tale of two Latin America's or a tale of two Mexicas but they show the comparison between the the largest companies in the world versus the rest right and you see the largest like if I'm talking about Coca-Cola, PepsiCo Danon, Unilever, PNG like whoever you mentioned those companies are reporting higher growth in Latin America than in any other developed country and you say how is that possible so why the region is not growing and then you see well because the vast majority are in fact micro firms right and 99% are less than 10 employees they disappear at rates that you wouldn't imagine and their challenge to survive is so large that the social environmental sustainability is not really part of their vision right they are just trying to make a living for the next day which I believe is a little bit unfair to potentially ask them to really do beyond that at this point but of course when they are suppliers or customers or these big companies this is when it makes a difference because if you don't remember the saying that I was mentioning with L'Oreal I took part of this session with L'Oreal a few years ago in New York they invited me to give a presentation on transportation to emissions and they were actually having 70 logistics providers so all of you were there if I recall and I remember that during the presentation they made a big announcement of the quality if I recall sharing the beauty which means sharing the responsibility of you guys measuring the emissions so that you would call more supplier in a nutshell I'm paraphrasing and it was very interesting for me to see how if this big monster will say well you know we are having this expansion programs if you want to be part of it then you need to do something for the environment so a company that a few weeks before that event was saying what you are doing is ridiculous nobody cares immediately it's like oh we love sustainability we are going to go with everything and this happens also in other countries you will see these reactions because everybody wants to be part of the global supply chains they want to be part of that so that creates a lot of value if you want to be part of the game and those are actually having that pressure whether you believe or not you need to be part of the game and this is more what I see the driver in this emerging economy excellent thank you some questions are coming in please continue to send them in or to upvote questions that you see on Slido if you really want something asked that is also an appropriate question which all of these are the third one kind of building on that thinking about the global supply chain our unit of analysis is supply chain our unit of analysis isn't so much within the four walls of the firm but the connection between multiple firms and I wonder if any of you could comment on is achieving supply chain sustainability like the practical nuts and bolts of doing it necessarily supplier development is that how we get it done we work with suppliers who are in different places in their journey do anyone have any examples or stories about using collaboration as the way to achieve supply chain sustainability goals I mean we frequently work with circumstances where you have a large buyer whether it be a brand or retail or other and they're really trying to kind of push upstream to get that data all the way you know back to the source about their supply chains and for us and this is just kind of a shout out to GS1 that really begins with a shared language without that you have a big problem in fact it's kind of odd to me that the supply chain data evolve the way it did I think if you played the tape back a hundred times you'd already have more shared language between systems but for some reason there's not as much but it's really taking hold now we use the Epsys standard the EPCIS which is a GS1 standard but there's other standards where you can have information exchange between systems and that's really what you're going to have to have really upstream data and in some cases across different industries you know you've got now retail buyers that are asking questions of carbon footprint but they're also asking questions like what goes into my feed so you've got soy that goes into feed that goes into fish that might have ended up in the salmon that we ate earlier outside where suddenly that's an issue and again all that starts with a shared language that the different stakeholders are using and I mentioned seafood I'm on the board of something called the global dialogue on seafood traceability and it's all about using a GS1 standard the Epsys standard for but specific to the seafood context and creating those collaborations for brands for retailers but with those upstream suppliers that really quite frankly right now maybe aren't as familiar with these standards but they need to be thank you Rachel and Shannon can you do supply chain sustainability on your own with the collaborative process we've figured it out at Robinson we just aren't sharing it with anyone how's your moment the collaboration is critical I know that seems so cliche but it truly is and I can list off a lot of ways that I'm seeing that play out in the transportation space you spoke to this a bit about the language I think reporting is another really important one groups like the smart freight center in Amsterdam creating models for how we're actually reporting on transportation they work with you all and smart way and all of those if we're speaking not only a collective language but we're all using similar kind of apples to apples comparison around reporting is huge another place that I see that's going to continue to be critical is especially within transportation and we keep talking about there's a term called the messy middle that we're in right now around EVs around the use of alternative fuels you have OEMs you have carriers you have TPLs you have shippers you have government agencies you have chargers like charging infrastructures there's all these groups that sometimes kind of stand around and do a little bit of the spider-man and the only way that any of that's going to happen is if everyone's at the table and having conversations around what are the benefits for each of these groups where are they willing to give it just will never happen on its own so that's another place that I think that's where you see that through groups like sustainable fuel buyers alliance and some of those that are coming together where it's we're large shippers we know this is important we need to find a way to collectively move this and we can't do it on our own so I'm starting to see some of that I think it will continue to have to happen it'll be forced through regulations as you need to be getting more data from your suppliers it'll be forced through as companies are getting closer to their 50 goals that they're going to be more and more willing to come to the table the one thing that I will call out that you mentioned Josue is also kind of how especially large shippers is where I see it mostly can do that in a really good way where it's kind of more about capacity building than forcing the hand because there are so many companies out there that are small and are not either collecting the data they need or they haven't started talking about sustainability those suppliers that can be a really big burden for some groups like L'Oreal is a great example or Walmart or others that are out there that don't just come down and say here are all the things you better do and you better do it by XYZ they say hey let us help you they invest a lot in education in helping people kind of move along in that journey because not only is that helpful to them as a company but that's going to move the entire industry so I think that capacity building not just kind of the everyone that can and is there and is that the same place to the table to collaborate but helping move everyone along is the only way that we're going to see any kind of movement in the transportation space thank you I'm sitting here trying to think there are two ways that I could think about answering this question one of them is really interesting to me because in our supply chain a big chunk of it is the informal sector and we work with some of the poorest, most disenfranchised people who are race pickers who are often picking up plastic bottles off of waste dumps around the world and part of your question was about both collaboration but also capability building and so bringing that sector into the supply chain in such a way that you can ensure that you do not have human rights abuses children child labour and you have health and sanitation for people that are working in that space it's a really big part of that and it starts by educating those workers around what their rights are and then also that there is a better way to do this and also educating them even how to have a formal job sometimes because why is it important to show up on time and to be part of your shift and those sorts of things so I do think there's a huge amount of collaboration that can happen in that first at least for us in that first part of the supply chain that is really important about that dialogue between the producers who take a bottle and turn it back into a recycled pellet for example talking with the waste pickers about what is the level of contamination that's okay what do our corporate off-takers care about in terms of human rights abuses and ethical supply chains and transparency and how can we help you to develop that supply chain that also avoids those sorts of abuses and the other one is actually an example I just heard recently it's not ours and I'm sort of jealous because I really love it there's an organization called RAP in the UK that was developed to actually get recycling running about 20 years ago across the UK market and they take the same approach we do which is a sort of system level approach and one of their examples of things that they did was they discovered that glass in the UK was not getting recycled effectively because most of the glass being generated was coming from wine bottles which were green and most of the glass being used in the UK is brown because most of the UK or clear because most of the spirits and other products in the UK are beer and whiskey and stuff and they don't go into green bottles so they got together with a bunch of the wine producers around the world even from South Africa and all over Europe and convinced them to bottle their wine on shore in the UK and instead of shipping it in the bottles from the countries that they were coming from they would ship them in huge bladders that were the size of their shipping containers and not only did this mean that they could reuse bottles more effectively in the UK and they had plenty of green bottles that were still coming into the country to be able to use their bottles properly but it also meant that the quality of the wine was better because they were shipping in these big volumes that meant that they didn't go through the same heating and cooling which often damages the wine in the shipping process plus of course there was a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions because you're not shipping glass everywhere so it was like this huge win-win thing but it only came together because they were able to bring all of these different suppliers together to make this work Thank you for that and I was just thinking that's the second time today wine has been the example I think previously so I don't know what that says but did I notice it or that our audience brought it up I'll leave that open interpretation I want to go to the next one and then I'll pitch the host way on this but so I asked you all does your firm have a net zero timeline goal and 42% said no we then asked about if you have a goal when is it yes by 2050 29% by 2030 17% this may be surprising but I would say this tracks with the worldwide estimates that we get in our global survey particularly for a North American audience let me jump right into why I think there might be a lot of no's but feel free to push back on me and I'll start with host way and then maybe go down the group I think there's a lot of no's because scope 3 is really hard I was like could you start by sort of to the uninitiated what is scope 3 why is it hard and then invite any of the panelists who have some comment on the challenge of scope 3 to bring those to sure that's the easy question thank you so much finally an easy one I was afraid you were going to ask me something about the wine or something so we have the greenhouse gas protocol greenhouse gas protocol defines three different scopes when we are doing the greenhouse gas inventory so you want to account for all the different greenhouse gases so usually when we do it there are different ways I will not simply oversimplify it but of course it matters what is the type of gas that you're doing like you were for instance explaining about the methane and the amount of times it's more damaging than actually just carbon dioxide but we tend to just use CO2 because we convert all the different gases into CO2 equivalent so that's the amount of heat that a CO2 molecule can trap in the atmosphere just consider this is a global warming potential now you understand why we are always using trees instead of this right now the other the other is when you are doing this you have three scopes scope one as a company when you do the calculation of the assets you own so what about your assets this is a simplification they call it the direct emissions this is the emissions that you own in the scope one when you consider the production of electricity or energy like for instance if we switch on or off you know it's like we are we in fact are not producing the emissions right that somebody else produce the energy but we are responsible because we are the ones who are switching on and off so that's when you count that as part of your responsibility then you consider this as scope two and now scope three is everything else that you have influence on but you do not own any assets for instance for Rachel's business everything is scope three emissions I mean scope one is probably admin work I guess and some some offices but yeah what you do here is that when you account for all the emissions that are related to scope three for instance when I place an order I'm actually causing transportation activities I'm causing some warehouses I'm inventory management everything that is triggered because certain decisions I'm making this is the scope three if I consider how my product the product is used by the consumer that is also part of the scope three emissions so that part usually to your question Dave is at least 80% of all the emissions related to your supply chain I'm actually being very careful it could be 90% or even higher so that's why it's a big deal now when companies make this claim you say well why is it hard you already know like for me the question about the collaboration probably answering that as well has to do a lot also how accurate are you with your own data that you have in house like for instance that project that I mentioned the green button where we communicated to the consumers the amount of emissions and trees it was just an exercise to connect logistics with commercial which as you know they hate each other so just to say oh I'm going to commend this to the consumer they say oh you don't touch my consumers because you're going to screw up everything and all of these things were happening so those collaborations even internally do not exist I cannot even imagine how those things will happen if we are trying to involve even more entities which I believe to your point I love how you say it we share and collaborate because we share the pain in a way it's like we all struggle with the same but anyway it's always very challenging to scope three emissions because they are the hardest are the ones that you do not own in your assets therefore you need to use a lot of activity based methods what was the activity how much it was transported let me use some standard emission factors carbon intensity factors let me just get a number and when you use those aggregate methods what can actually translate into is making decisions that potentially are not going to really help you reduce your emissions and I was just giving the example of transportation for instance everybody uses distance cargo and emission factor to estimate emissions so if you use that formula that means when you are empty loaded you are actually having zero emissions problems solved so the model does not capture what is actually happening and that's why because of that formula you always say well let's reduce the distance because the other formula says that so the more you aggregate and use that for making decisions the better the strategies so the better you use the data available the higher the level of detail in your estimations then the easier it is going to be for you as an organization to define strategies that are going to be better but this is the challenge as scope three emissions is the topic of today so back to you thank you anyone else on scope three from where you sit is it as hard as how I said I mean yeah everything you just said is exactly right think about the number of suppliers that the company is working with if you are trying to knock on the door of every single one of those suppliers to hope that they have already tracked the data and hope that they're able to get it to you in a timely manner in a way that you are then able to take that and report it out in a way that's needed it's just a really manual process there's a lot of questions around the data I think all of those things are really clear but to your point about kind of the pain and how you then can work together on that is Steve Rates who is incredible and is here right now and is very good when I was getting started on a lot of this that he was asking just really good questions as Robinson was starting to go down this road of reporting scope three etc etc like well aren't we double counting when it comes to scope three and I was like yeah there's things and there's a lot of complexity to it and also that means that that's why everyone needs to be in the room because we are all going to be then looking for similar solutions Robinson's in the process right now of looking at setting our own scope three goal we will rely very closely on those same shippers who are looking to us to help them with their goals to be able to decrease our own scope three because to your point that's 99 point whatever percent of our total emissions so it is very difficult on the data side it is very complex and also hopefully what that will do in some days continue to drive those collaborations thank you and the questions are coming in I think more people want to talk to you all than we will have time for so apologies in advance to those we don't get to let me ask one more and then we'll go to some of the most upvoted questions and I want to start with Shannon and Jason so like we spent most of this time talking about the challenges like how hard it is all the things you have to do to improve sustainability in the supply chain but like you do it you lead big teams you founded companies dedicated to doing it could you comment on why it's worth doing and I guess I mean more specifically sometimes people have questions about justifying the cost in the effort that goes into adding sustainability to a corporate portfolio so Jason and Shannon can you talk about why it's worth doing and how do you help people understand justification if you will of the cost of adding sustainability to their decision making go ahead you too well I mean it's interesting I mean on a personal level it's worth it because I tell people all the time if I didn't get paid to do what I do I would pay to do what I do love it it's a puzzle it's a challenging puzzle of trying to figure out not only how to how to be a part of these solutions but also to connect the data of these solutions that are happening and so you know on a personal level I guess that's the answer on you know from a organizational level I think earlier Joe on the previous panel had said you know we're not selling clicks brands are selling trust and I think that's a big component there of you know brands right now we're in the midst in my view and what we see particularly in the food system of a real transformation and you know fizma 204 is a big part of that but there are other things happening as well where we're going to have significantly more data in these supply chains and the ability to affect things like Best Buy Dates which are causing a lot of that post-consumer waste which is leading to larger emissions but also just food waste which is just sometimes you know half of what we take out of the ocean we throw away which is you know obscene when you think about it and you know this is a real opportunity or brands who are going to be doing these things through them now and fast and develop that trust with their customer and with the overall market and so you know we see those who are taking that opportunity and they're getting the dividend now they're going to do it but you know why not now so yeah that's okay so I on a personal level to start there as well I have I'm a very much a mission driven person and the environment has always been my mission so I started out as a conservation biologist and went into management consulting learned in my first year of management consulting that if I wasn't focused on something environmental I was not happy and found a way to do that within the management consulting world and then brought it around to the nonprofit space which I kind of feel like was always where I was intended to go one of the things that I learned during the years that I was at McKinsey was a lot of the research I worked on energy efficiency in buildings regulatory strategy around greenhouse gas emissions in power production sustainable transportation like all sorts of different stuff we wrote a lot of really cool reports but I began to be frustrated by writing reports and then not having the opportunity to enact them in the real world so the reason that I started Delterra and with the mission that it has is that there is a huge gap in capability between what we say should be happening out there and what is actually happening and nobody is spending or not many people are spending enough time on trying to actually shift those human systems so that we can actually so that we know like for example once the UN plastic pack becomes aligned you know they're going to come out with a set of guidelines on we've got to put proper waste management out into these countries and at the moment no one really knows how to get that to happen it's not as easy as just throwing a bunch of money at it because what's really missing when we do that is all of the capabilities of how to run that infrastructure how to do the collection, how to change behaviors and then also all of the OPEX investment and making sure that we figure out where is the money going to come from to continue running that infrastructure at the end of the day so that's what we focus on because it's a huge gap in our understanding of how to sort of implement the vision of what we do and from an ethical perspective it's sort of died down in recent years but a couple years ago you couldn't open a newspaper without seeing a whale washed up on a beach with a belly full of plastic or people dying because of different materials being burned along way sides and that creating toxic plumes in the air that was causing contamination and poisoning people so really honestly climate change is the existential threat of our time but there are lots of others as you threw up there biodiversity loss and pollution and I think all of these are important and we need to keep them all in mind as we try and fix these systems at a systemic level otherwise it's very personal but what are we leaving our children Thank you Rachel for you maybe also starting with the personal mission but I wonder if you could also comment on you and I both work in trucking and I think sometimes trucking is not seen as a bespoke service personally what makes it worth it to you but also how do you make that pitch to shippers that might just be looking for the lowest cost option yeah so I started a non-profit and then went corporate so I sold my soul I'll go the opposite direction and talk about the business side certainly I really have always been mission driven so on the personal level it's very important I like spending time outside all of those things I think as a company when we look at it there's a number of things I would speak to one you spoke to a bit that some of these things are going to happen anyway and so we have the option of either being leaders or fast followers and having this be a competitive advantage because a lot of our customers are asking for it or we can wait until it's table stakes and then it's table stakes and that's still an important thing that companies are doing but from a business perspective where do you want to sit with that and so that's a really important piece for us to be thinking about our customers want this how do we handle that our investors do our people do still is a competitive advantage there I think the other piece is transportation is notoriously hard to decarbonize sector and that is very you see that when you look at where companies tend to start when they look at their supply chain emissions or when they look at addressing supply chain I don't want to say low hanging fruit it's hard work but there are a lot of things you can do before you get to transportation because there's not a super easy button there's a ton of really cool innovation happening there is a really a lot of cool stuff that's happening on the tech side and that's going to continue to happen in the transportation sector so Robinson getting to be a part of those conversations about how do we make more efficient supply chains which we've been doing forever how do we tie that back to sustainability and kind of find those people that are willing to come to the table and do really cool stuff like companies that are using sailing across the ocean now and maybe that won't be scalable we're trying things and carbon capture there's just a lot happening here so I think that it's driving innovation it's something that our stakeholders care about and then the last thing that you talked about is we're a company that's been around for 120 years we want to be a company that's around for another 120 years and if we're going to do that we need our investors to believe that we're going to be around our customers need to see us as that and we need to be thinking about the earth in that way because it just is the reality of what carbon looks at so those are ours thank you so I want to make sure I get to some of the most popular audience questions and Josue since you put numbers on a slide people want to pitch numbers back to you so I will preface for my friend that he doesn't have to have the exact answer the exact question is does investing in EVs at 2x cost make sense? no just kidding so you know clearly there's a lot of context to answering that yes or no but so you've done a lot of sustainable logistics research what would you share with or what insights would you share to the person asking that question I was actually having a slide that would show the present moment with the carbon target and then showing the carbon emissions and then everybody keeping their emissions stable until finally technology becomes affordable so everybody's waiting for that and that's the elephant in the room so shippers are asking logistics providers put some EVs there so that I can have green deliveries and then the logistics providers come and say they're willing to pay the premium fee or no no no I'm not going to pay for anything and this is usually always the issue nobody wants to put like the hard hand on this because at the end they are partners but the issue is becoming better relevant I actually have an example I will not mention the company but it's also one of the largest logistics providers that they actually acquire hundreds of EVs thinking that the customers were going to be willing to pay for the premium fee and it's very funny all the customers are actually making these climate pledges and also putting the accounting of scope 3 emissions and then it says well are you willing to pay the premium fee they already made the deal with the OEMs they actually were willing to go with the financial how many of those customers decided actually to go for the premium and I was guessing I don't know 10% she said zero so no one actually said which always she gives me hard time because it's like I always say let's go environment consumers care and she says well this is what they say but at the time of paying nobody's paying so now the issue is what are we going to do with this and actually we've been working with this financial it's like okay so now I have hundreds which by the way I made a deal with the OEM so there are hundreds more coming in and where we are going to put them so the issues that we are now dealing is actually I believe quite relevant from once whether this is going to be only an issue of last mile because we know in last mile this is already solved in a way that technology exists and you know it's going to happen sooner or later I believe it's going to become more affordable and discussions on that development of research technology behind it is going to solve the issue I believe but the question is whether we can use this in the middle mile or the first mile or the drainage operation and I believe this is again it's going to happen I believe this is what I meant when I said investment in the next 5-10 years is going to really drive us there and to your point Rachel I believe it's better yet the financials are not there yet and there is going to be a bigger question to answer everybody is now discussing about how the network is going to look like where do I put my charging stations do I piggyback with the hops in the warehouse of the future how we can actually build a network so imagine that you envision how your network is going to look like now you have I don't know thousands of vehicles in the operations how are you going to do that transition which are going to be the first batch of fleet and which ones are going to take off and which ones are going to put in without damaging your business and your own time deliveries and then once you start envisioning that transition that's actually going to in my view make a difference who is going to get a competitive advantage or not in the coming years so I didn't answer the question of the financial but I can tell you so far you are lucky if this works either you have a government that gives you a subsidy or somebody is actually willing to pay a little bit more otherwise I don't think particularly for the middle even if you are in Europe and the mileage actually gives you the outreach to do it it's going to work with the finances I think it's not going to be the case at least I believe in the short term in the following years we may see completely different numbers thank you for that we're coming close to time let me make a cheeky answer to the great question Anonymous asks how can companies better educate their associates on sustainability efforts plus the way I think a class just launched I wasn't prepared but we've launched a online supply chain management sustainability class that Josue leads that might be one way to do it we talk about it more but we are almost out of time please join me in thanking our panelists for their insights this afternoon thank you all